Education Importance

[jtjr26]

I was reading over my Free Quebec book recently and was wondering, will the CS retain the technological gap over FQ in the long term. Now I know the books says that FQ is 15-25% less advanced than the CS(Chi-Town specifically), Will that remain the case long term. FQ has much greater access to education then the rest of CS, and despite the difference in the population will than eventually lead to FQ being more advanced then the CS, baring of course one or both nations being destroyed or taken some how. And Yes I know archie and the republicans have superior technology, but they operate for the most part on a smaller scale.

[Chad]

I don't see FQ (by themselves) surpassing the CS in the tech. gap. IMO, FQ doesn't have greater access to education, they are just (forgive the pun) more free with it.
On the other hand, FQ does have a nice relationship with Triax. Depending on how well that works out, it might be possible for FQ to one day surpass the CS.

[Temporalmage]

In what areas? To be honest Free Quebec is already more advanced than the CS in Glitterboy Tech, and quite possibly bionics and juicers as they've been using them for far longer. In the areas of robots, power armor, and combat vehicles the CS dominates. As for genetics the CS is the king.

Taking some areas and comparing the CS to FQ:
Robots: The CS will dominate for quite some time, as FQ simply does not use them, nor care too. Instead they rely on thier hoards of Glitterboys to do the same stuff.
Power Armor: They believe thier hoards of Glitterboys are the best, and so rule in this area, though the CS has developed more diverse units, they arguably are not as good.
Combat Vehicles: The CS has far more diverse units, and will continue to dominate in this field, again due to FQ sticking with thier GB forces.
Genetics: Free Quebec does not like dogboys (ran all of em out), and probably wouldn't develope that tech at all.
Bionics: Right now FQ seems to have a bit of the upper hand here, but the CS is only stuck in 2nd place due to red tape, and the Emperor's personal feelings on the borgs. As the CS is turning around, thier borgs will quickly outshine FQ's in a matter of a few months, to a few years.
juicers: FQ and the CS both have equal tech here, the only advantage goes to FQ who has delt with them for far longer, but the war at Tolkeen has probably brought the CS up to speed quickly, so they tie here.
Navy: FQ is the winner here with more experiance, ships, and a better grasp of naval tactics. Though the CS will quickly close this gap in shear numbers, and the CS has higher tech vehicles, not neccesarily better.

[Dog_O_War]

If left unchecked Free Quebec will surpass the CS in the technology gap. These are my reasons for this theorization.

The CS Operates on a medival church system; they only educate those of the inner sanctum, leaving a teired level of intelligence. Since that inner sanctum is miniscule compared to the actual population they aren't running very strong in the brain-power department.
Free Quebec on the other hand has an educated populace magnitudes greater than the CS, even at the current population ratio. With a vastly greater pool of knowledge to draw from they are more likely to achieve break-throughs with technology.

Next is the discovery of dark-ages tech; the CS has the SAMAS - yay. This is a good flying suit of PA with a decent railgun. It is nothing special really; Northern Gun makes numerous comparable railguns, and is actually on its own way of surpassing the CS in railgun technology. In the future you're likely to see the newest SAMAS model armed with an NG gun.
Meanwhile FQ has the Glitterboy. They also have the brain-power to disect that suit (or will soon). What this can lead into is Glitter-troops and troop-carriers. Given the awesomeness of the boomgun it will mean better development with this weapon as well. That and they have a deal going with the NGR which means additional technological sources. They are pulling from a lot of resource piles here.

Then there is the fact that everyone is gunning for the big dog here; the CS has many enemies, and these enemies exist on all fronts. This puts great strain on them, forcing resources into different areas, limiting those available for development. The enemy from within is possibly the CS's greatest foe; FQ really doesn't have that problem.
FQ is a country of nationalists first, racists second. This puts them at a fiercely loyal outlook as far as their beloved Priminister is concerned. They also share less borders with hostile opponents meaning they do not have a fraction of the pressure the CS is subjected to.

Finally, the tech. currently employed by the CS and the tech. employed by FQ is also of a different scale; FQ has the Glitterboy, the CS has.....well, nothing compared to it. FQ could have tanks like the Linebacker or the Skysweeper, but why? The Glitterboy has a comparable amount of MD on the main body, a main gun that is equal to their main gun(s) (plus some of the secondaries in addition!), but is a smaller target and doesn't require as much crew or even cost as much. They have superior technology for cheaper - this puts them square in the "surpassing" margin.


On a side note here; the books claim that the CS is more advanced. I hold that this claim is both unfounded and false. Compare CS and FQ equipment one day; They have the same body armours, the same vehicles (something the game doesn't really elaborate on, but FQ has their own versions of the Mark-transport models, as well as tanks and robots), and (IMO) better weaponry. They needn't make laser guns that have a 2000ft range for the average soldier; they invested in the superior LR weaponry right from the beginning (the boomgun). They get to play the defender role even while on the attack thanks to this; an advantage no other world power can boast really. Everything points towards FQ having both a higher basic level of tech. for citizens (in the CS you can go from the 1800's to 2200's in a hundred miles; in FQ you're looking at 1930's to the 2200's in that same area), as well as superior military weaponry.

I don't see FQ (by themselves) surpassing the CS in the tech. gap. IMO, FQ doesn't have greater access to education, they are just (forgive the pun) more free with it.
On the other hand, FQ does have a nice relationship with Triax. Depending on how well that works out, it might be possible for FQ to one day surpass the CS.

What books have you read? The average FQ citizen can read, write, do basic math, and has a trade. The CS can boast none of this. In the CS you're looking at general laborers that cannot educate themselves into a better way of life without going underground. In free Quebec they offer the population (citizens) education in exchange for a stint in the military. They recieve double-duty from this program; the average citizen (who is exceptionally loyal btw) can and will bare arms for their country (effectively even), and they also become a brighter mind with which to advance the country as a whole. The CS on the other hand only has conscription at their becon in times of need.

[Chad]

Ok, I'll bite. <I had a feeling you would be coming after me anyway>

I think it is a big misconception that the CS is not educated based solely on their policy of illiteracy (which,btw, doesn't apply to everybody- Special Forces, the elite, RCSG, most of the population in the Lone Star Complex).
They fly Power Armor, that Tony Stark would love to get his hands on, powered by nuclear reactors. Make knives that can cut a steel door in half with one slice. Mastered nano-technology to the point that they can make vehicles and armor to shed bullets like rain drops. Applied molecular medicine for its' citizens to eliminate cancer, aids, and obesity. Small hand held weapons that can blow a house up with one shot. The list goes on and on... yet, I get the impression from some <cough, > that they like to make believe people in the Coalition are walking around going-

Hey, man. What's 1+1 again? What does that equal?

I don't know. 8? 14? We better call High Command about this one!

Come on. Get real. As it stands right now, the Coalition have the most educated people on the continent. Blaspheme!!, you say. Before I get a bunch of hate mail, please note: I'm referring to education in terms of chemistry, physics, and practical application- not philosophy. Naruni Enerprises has gone on the record as stating, within a century-Rifts Earth should be on par with Phase World tech. Considering they are in North America, and the Coalition has the leading technology- Who do you think they're referring to?
As far as a trade (skill, talent, job)? I thought that was required for the majority of the citizens? I find it hard to believe everyone are just sitting on their butts all day.

Getting back to the subject-
Like I stated, FQ could surpass the CS, but are unlikely to do so without an outside source (like Triax). It's not just a matter of brain power (IMO, the CS has more of), but also a question of being more active. 'One is less likely to invent something if one doesn't need it.'

[Dog_O_War]

:lol:
Ok, I'll bite. <I had a feeling you would be coming after me anyway>

I think it is a big misconception that the CS is not educated based solely on their policy of illiteracy (which,btw, doesn't apply to everybody- Special Forces, the elite, RCSG, most of the population in the Lone Star Complex).
They fly Power Armor, that Tony Stark would love to get his hands on, powered by nuclear reactors. Make knives that can cut a steel door in half with one slice. Mastered nano-technology to the point that they can make vehicles and armor to shed bullets like rain drops. Applied molecular medicine for its' citizens to eliminate cancer, aids, and obesity. Small hand held weapons that can blow a house up with one shot. The list goes on and on... yet, I get the impression from some <cough, > that they like to make believe people in the Coalition are walking around going-

Hey, man. What's 1+1 again? What does that equal?

I don't know. 8? 14? We better call High Command about this one!

They never invented any of that technology though.
Take this into consideration; I can build a computer, a bicycle, hell even a car - but that doesn't make me a possessor of that knowledge. I have been told that I am very good at trial and error processes as well, meaning that if their were a problem with the parts I could identify what it is and possibly fix it. But that is the thing; I need something to go off of. Just because I can stand on the shoulders of a genius does not make me one.
This is what all the current world powers in Rifts are doing; the difference though is that the CS has not only a smaller genius, but is only allowing select members stand with them.
FQ has a bigger genius and is allowing more people (which means more insight) to stand on said shoulders.

Come on. Get real.

The unfortunate reality of this is that while the CS can build a hand-held device capable of destroying entire houses, a caveman can operate the trigger. Better than that is a dumb but loyal soldier capable of doing just that. Do you honestly think he knows how it works? Or how gene-therapy works? Or how the CS cured cancer?
My point has been that in the CS the average citizen never will; in FQ the average citizen could if they wanted to. While not everyone can be doctors and lawyers, you'll get a much higher percentage of the population that are simply because such options are available to them.

Naruni Enerprises has gone on the record as stating, within a century-Rifts Earth should be on par with Phase World tech. Considering they are in North America, and the Coalition has the leading technology- Who do you think they're referring to?

Being in North America has nothing to do with knowing what technology is being developed. There are plenty of German products in NA, and they are supposedly higher tech than nearly anything in North America. The JA line of rifles are possibly the best example of this. Then there is the work that the Black Market is doing; they are making the CS's trademark PA, the SAMAS better than the CS is making it. Add on that Glitterboys are in mass numbers up in Free Quebec, and that Titan robotics puts out highly advanced tech for almost nothing and you've got your reason. The CS's contribution? Not railguns; Germans do it better. So does Archie/Titan Robotics. Not PA; FQ's got that line covered, as does the BM.

Wilks is private, and they make lasers better than the CS does. Then there are the geniuses over at teh GAW turning 300 year-old tanks into...well tanks again for practically nothing. I mean it costs you 110,000 to get a tank that has as much MDC as a SAMAS, yet they're doing it for 1/10th the price. And they're turing things like the Mountaineer into hover-vehicles. The CS on the other hand does have the only visible leap in robotics. If only they knew what Archie had.

All this ties into what technology is helping rival Phase World; it's not one place but a group effort (whether they like it or not).

As far as a trade (skill, talent, job)? I thought that was required for the majority of the citizens? I find it hard to believe everyone are just sitting on their butts all day.

Naw; you gotta have farmers and cabbies, and cleaners, and laudry services and.....

[cyber-yukongil v2.5]

:lol:
Ok, I'll bite. <I had a feeling you would be coming after me anyway>

I think it is a big misconception that the CS is not educated based solely on their policy of illiteracy (which,btw, doesn't apply to everybody- Special Forces, the elite, RCSG, most of the population in the Lone Star Complex).
They fly Power Armor, that Tony Stark would love to get his hands on, powered by nuclear reactors. Make knives that can cut a steel door in half with one slice. Mastered nano-technology to the point that they can make vehicles and armor to shed bullets like rain drops. Applied molecular medicine for its' citizens to eliminate cancer, aids, and obesity. Small hand held weapons that can blow a house up with one shot. The list goes on and on... yet, I get the impression from some <cough, > that they like to make believe people in the Coalition are walking around going-

Hey, man. What's 1+1 again? What does that equal?

I don't know. 8? 14? We better call High Command about this one!

Come on. Get real. As it stands right now, the Coalition have the most educated people on the continent. Blaspheme!!, you say. Before I get a bunch of hate mail, please note: I'm referring to education in terms of chemistry, physics, and practical application- not philosophy. Naruni Enerprises has gone on the record as stating, within a century-Rifts Earth should be on par with Phase World tech. Considering they are in North America, and the Coalition has the leading technology- Who do you think they're referring to?
As far as a trade (skill, talent, job)? I thought that was required for the majority of the citizens? I find it hard to believe everyone are just sitting on their butts all day.

Getting back to the subject-
Like I stated, FQ could surpass the CS, but are unlikely to do so without an outside source (like Triax). It's not just a matter of brain power (IMO, the CS has more of), but also a question of being more active. 'One is less likely to invent something if one doesn't need it.'

that would hold more weight as an argument if everything you just mentioned there wasn't recovered (from the Golden Age) or stolen tech. FQ will easily bypass the CS as pointed out above because of the free exchange of information and the leaderships position of not quashing the potential of its citizens. Remember folks the CS Command is the blackest of badguys and everything they do is teh evil!

[cyber-yukongil v2.5]

I'm gonna have to agree with Dog on this one, but for a different reason. Yea the CS keeps 90% of it's population in the stupid zone, but so what? FQ may teach most if it's citizens to read, right and how to count, but that doesn't mean there really gonna do anything with it when there term of service is up in the military. You have to remember, most of the things there taught have nothing to do with advancing the tech level of FQ when a solder is done with the military. When a FQ grunt or even PA pilot retires from military life they don't become a scientist, they become a bartender, or car mechanic, or an instructor for new little grunts or PA pilots. For FQ to surpass the CS in most levels of technology it would take an act of god.

And by the way, the backbone of FQ military might is in Glitterboy tech, which in itself is recovered golden-age tech. The new types of GB are all made by taking one normal GB apart and then building it back in different ways, which is the same thing the BM did to the SAMAS, that they salvaged from area (51? or 52? can't remember). FQ and CS get most of their tech the say way, from salvaging pre-rifts military equipment and reverse enginering it.

which is what puts them on equal footing. But given that the best and brightest of the CS will never get the chance to crawl out of the burbs and some sort of low tech manufacturing job, gives a big step up to the FQ einsteins that have no such limits imposed on them.

[jtjr26]

I guess the point I was going for when I started this thread was that the CS certainly does have the lead in overall technology at this point. The point I was trying to make was by providing a much larger percentage of its citizens access to education they will over time through numbers alone reach a point where their tech will develop faster than the CS. People who have been educated generally continue to seek more knowledge throughout their lives, because they see the benefit of it. Though I will concede this may take many years to achieve.

[Defender_X]

Also, CS felt threatened, not really stated but it's there, with FQ's education policies. Think about it, FQ had and has the ability to train a larger pool percentage-wise of educated professionals. If they stayed in the CS, brain-power would have been a big export for them. Considering how paranoid the Proseks are, encouraging FQ to leave was smart, even if it wasn't.

[Chad]

They never invented any of that technology though. Take this into consideration; I can build a computer, a bicycle, hell even a car - but that doesn't make me a possessor of that knowledge.

I understand what you're stating. It does take a professor to reverse engineer, maintain, modify and upgrade that knowledge. My point was- the Coalition isn't filled with just a bunch of dumb@$$es. Not only does it have educated people, they are among the most educated on the continent. Given the level of technology, they have to be. Not to say that the same isn't true with Free Quebec (it is). Though FQ didn't exactly invent the Chromium Guardsman.

Just because I can stand on the shoulders of a genius does not make me one.
This is what all the current world powers in Rifts are doing; the difference though is that the CS has not only a smaller genius, but is only allowing select members stand with them.
FQ has a bigger genius and is allowing more people (which means more insight) to stand on said shoulders.

I've been looking through RUE, FQ, Sourcebook (Rev), and I have yet to come across a passage that states: Per capita, FQ has more geniuses walking around than the CS.

The unfortunate reality of this is that while the CS can build a hand-held device capable of destroying entire houses, a caveman can operate the trigger. Better than that is a dumb but loyal soldier capable of doing just that. Do you honestly think he knows how it works? Or how gene-therapy works? Or how the CS cured cancer?
My point has been that in the CS the average citizen never will;

I think a soilder has an understanding of how his weapon works (Weapon Systems +10%, access to Field Armorer +15%), but yeah I see your point. I don't think he could build one from scratch or have knowledge of the other stuff, but the doctors that work in those fields would.

in FQ the average citizen could if they wanted to. While not everyone can be doctors and lawyers, you'll get a much higher percentage of the population that are simply because such options are available to them.

I don't necessarily disagree with what your saying, but rather the implication behind it.
Just because a citizen has an option for a profession does not mean that he has an aptitude for it. His contributions towards that chosen field would be null.
I'm sure that FQ would encourage its citizens to pursue careers they have a talent for. However, the Coalition does the same thing, going as far as recruiting Rogue Scientist/Scholars. The difference being- the CS has a bigger population to work with; which means more citizens with an aptitude in any given field; which means more % chance of geniuses in said field. Roughly 10 CS geniuses for every 4 FQ (numbers taken strictly from population density- Sourcebook, pg. 12, old school).

Being in North America has nothing to do with knowing what technology is being developed.

My point was, it is the only thing Naruni are going on (at least for the most part). Not Japan, Triax, or Geofront. The most tech on the continent is the Coalition.

There are plenty of German products in NA,

Not according to canon.
From what I've read, the main reason there are any Triax goods in America at all is because Karl Prosek allows it. The Coalition has a pact with Triax that purposely limits the amount of products/equipment sold in North America. The CS provides trade routes and occasional escorts to dealers, meanwhile CS R@D has access to every piece of Triax equipment availible in North America. (Although implied and not stated) It is safe to assume that the Coalition is getting a kickback from every Triax product being sold. This is why I've said from the get-go, unless FQ comes across an outside source, they don't stand a chance of getting a leg up on the Coalition.
It is possible that FQ could make a deal with Triax, but considering Triax has a much better sleeping arrangement with the CS, I don't think it's likely.

Then there is the work that the Black Market is doing; they are making the CS's trademark PA, the SAMAS better than the CS is making it.

The Black Market is making PA that is better than the Super SAMAS?
Are you referring to new designs out of Area 51? Lone Star has Top Secret Prototypes too.

Add on that Glitterboys are in mass numbers up in Free Quebec

I haven't forgotten about the Naruni issue, but this is part of what I'm saying about FQ. They have GBs that haven't been upgraded since the Golden Age. I'm not referring to something like the glitter girl , or the other half dozen or so models they put out that still, IMO, don't measure up to the original. I'm talking about a true upgrade. What's to upgrade?, you ask. Nothing much at all. I don't blame FQ. Why change what works? Unwanted hostile approaching your border? An RG-14 will take care of that problem real quick.
FQ has no reason to change anything. The Coalition, on the other hand, are constantly in the thick of it. The Federation, Vampires, Xiticix, Splugorth, whatever decides to crawl out of the Devil's Gate on a Tuesday afternoon. They are constantly looking for ways to improve their tech. What works? What doesn't? How can I make this better? This is not to say that FQ isn't doing this as well, but not on the scale with the pace that the CS is.

, and that Titan robotics puts out highly advanced tech for almost nothing

There is a reason for the low cost, and it is not superior but on par and I have a feeling that you already know there is a reason behind that as well.

The CS's contribution? Not railguns; Germans do it better. So does Archie/Titan Robotics.

I don't think the Naruni are basing their projections on the Shemarrian Rail Gun, which already put the GR-Guns to shame.
Most of the tech in the world orginated from 'Titan' anyway.

Not PA; FQ's got that line covered, as does the BM.

Most that was inspired from the Coalition and nothing that can not be countered in the War Campaign. The tech level is still the same.

Wilks is private, and they make lasers better than the CS does.

Wilks is one in the same. Considering they are incorporated into 75% of all electronics on the continent and 45% of all Coalition items.

Then there are the geniuses over at teh GAW turning 300 year-old tanks into...well tanks again for practically nothing. I mean it costs you 110,000 to get a tank that has as much MDC as a SAMAS, yet they're doing it for 1/10th the price. And they're turing things like the Mountaineer into hover-vehicles.

Throwing some MDC on a tank and slapping on a hover platform to a 6 ton vehicle does not really qualify as raising technology when compared to a Fire Storm Mobile Fortress.

[Talavar]

I've been looking through RUE, FQ, Sourcebook (Rev), and I have yet to come across a passage that states: Per capita, FQ has more geniuses walking around than the CS.

But they'll come to. Even geniuses require an educational base to work from, an educational base potential geniuses are more likely to receive in Free Quebec. For the sake of argument, let's say that 1 in 1000 people have the potential for genius. In the CS, that 1 in a thousand could potentially be born into the educated elite, but they probably won't be. While they may still excel at their occupation, they'll never receive the necessary education to really reach their potential.

[taalismn]

Also consider the scavenge factor...The CS may consider alien technology to be proscribed, but they certainly don't have any problems snapping it up, locking it away, and studying it to develop countermeasures...which will trickle back to the front lines...
The CS is FAR more expanionist than FQ, which gives them a LOT of opportunity to grab technology, and bagging Tolkeen has given them a windfall of loot, even if they ignore the magic or bury it all in concrete....
FQ's big ace is Triax, but Triax has to step carefully when it comes to handing out the technology and whatever secrets they've prized out of alien tech to avoid creating a competitor in North America, as well as not to alienate either of the two Human nations that are their current trade partners and possible future world allies, so that's another thing to be considered...

[csbioborg]

the colation states is played to be some eveil empire ready to keep its popluation down trodden. That is not true. THe citizens of chi town are educated highlevel thinkers. The reason most are not educated is the are busy making farms and winning back the frontier from the dbee. Look at the jump from Smas to Super Samas was that down by a society that does not love tech. Furthermore they are in a fight for surivival. They are in a fight for humanity's very existence. Free QUebec hasn't faced the dangers the CS has. They are sheltered by them War breed inovation. Qubec has not had adversity so they do not evolve.

[taalismn]

the colation states is played to be some eveil empire ready to keep its popluation down trodden. That is not true. THe citizens of chi town are educated highlevel thinkers. The reason most are not educated is the are busy making farms and winning back the frontier from the dbee. Look at the jump from Smas to Super Samas was that down by a society that does not love tech. Furthermore they are in a fight for surivival. They are in a fight for humanity's very existence. Free QUebec hasn't faced the dangers the CS has. They are sheltered by them War breed inovation. Qubec has not had adversity so they do not evolve.

---See disclaimer*. Brought to you by the Coalition Council for Truth in Media: "Because The Truth is Too Important to be Allowed to Run Around Free, Without Proper Supervision, and Getting into All Sorts of Dangerous Nasty Things"

[dark brandon]

I've been looking through RUE, FQ, Sourcebook (Rev), and I have yet to come across a passage that states: Per capita, FQ has more geniuses walking around than the CS.

But they'll come to. Even geniuses require an educational base to work from, an educational base potential geniuses are more likely to receive in Free Quebec. For the sake of argument, let's say that 1 in 1000 people have the potential for genius. In the CS, that 1 in a thousand could potentially be born into the educated elite, but they probably won't be. While they may still excel at their occupation, they'll never receive the necessary education to really reach their potential.

Quebec has to find that 1 in one 1000.

CS takes that 1...and makes 1000 of them.

Genetics FTW!

[Dog_O_War]

Just because I can stand on the shoulders of a genius does not make me one.
This is what all the current world powers in Rifts are doing; the difference though is that the CS has not only a smaller genius, but is only allowing select members stand with them.
FQ has a bigger genius and is allowing more people (which means more insight) to stand on said shoulders.

I've been looking through RUE, FQ, Sourcebook (Rev), and I have yet to come across a passage that states: Per capita, FQ has more geniuses walking around than the CS.

Well we'll gather up all the people of FQ and the CS and we'll have them take a general knowledge exam. Reading, wrighting, and math. Note how many of each nation get passed the "strange" bit of lines; "NAME". One side is clearly filled with morons by today's standards.

in FQ the average citizen could if they wanted to. While not everyone can be doctors and lawyers, you'll get a much higher percentage of the population that are simply because such options are available to them.

I don't necessarily disagree with what your saying, but rather the implication behind it.
Just because a citizen has an option for a profession does not mean that he has an aptitude for it. His contributions towards that chosen field would be null.
I'm sure that FQ would encourage its citizens to pursue careers they have a talent for. However, the Coalition does the same thing, going as far as recruiting Rogue Scientist/Scholars. The difference being- the CS has a bigger population to work with; which means more citizens with an aptitude in any given field; which means more % chance of geniuses in said field. Roughly 10 CS geniuses for every 4 FQ (numbers taken strictly from population density- Sourcebook, pg. 12, old school).

You're joking, right? The only people to recieve encouragement are the wealthy and powerful. You're looking at a society where 85% of the population spells their name with an 'X'. You're looking at the CS's top 15% of society having access to school, where as 60% of FQ's population go to school. The key difference here is that of the 15% that have access, it can be assumed that at least 10% do not go.

Being in North America has nothing to do with knowing what technology is being developed.

My point was, it is the only thing Naruni are going on (at least for the most part). Not Japan, Triax, or Geofront. The most tech on the continent is the Coalition.

Untrue, and the Naruni have had plenty of chances to sample other nations' technology. Besides this you trying to tell me that Prozek has North America, the continent, buttoned up better than the current US does? I find that doubtful at best.

There are plenty of German products in NA,

Not according to canon.
From what I've read, the main reason there are any Triax goods in America at all is because Karl Prosek allows it. The Coalition has a pact with Triax that purposely limits the amount of products/equipment sold in North America. The CS provides trade routes and occasional escorts to dealers, meanwhile CS R@D has access to every piece of Triax equipment availible in North America. (Although implied and not stated) It is safe to assume that the Coalition is getting a kickback from every Triax product being sold. This is why I've said from the get-go, unless FQ comes across an outside source, they don't stand a chance of getting a leg up on the Coalition.
It is possible that FQ could make a deal with Triax, but considering Triax has a much better sleeping arrangement with the CS, I don't think it's likely.

Well I only know one company that is making sales of NG fall, and is giving them serious competition in that market. And they sprecken zie duetch. Canon and all. 'Borg railgun anyone?

Then there is the work that the Black Market is doing; they are making the CS's trademark PA, the SAMAS better than the CS is making it.

The Black Market is making PA that is better than the Super SAMAS?
Are you referring to new designs out of Area 51? Lone Star has Top Secret Prototypes too.

Prove it. Oh wait, no book in the last ten years has said anything on said prototypes. Besides this the BM has both a far greater and more powerful knowledge and cash base than any other single power in all of NA.

Add on that Glitterboys are in mass numbers up in Free Quebec

I haven't forgotten about the Naruni issue, but this is part of what I'm saying about FQ. They have GBs that haven't been upgraded since the Golden Age. I'm not referring to something like the glitter girl , or the other half dozen or so models they put out that still, IMO, don't measure up to the original. I'm talking about a true upgrade. What's to upgrade?, you ask. Nothing much at all. I don't blame FQ. Why change what works? Unwanted hostile approaching your border? An RG-14 will take care of that problem real quick.
FQ has no reason to change anything. The Coalition, on the other hand, are constantly in the thick of it. The Federation, Vampires, Xiticix, Splugorth, whatever decides to crawl out of the Devil's Gate on a Tuesday afternoon. They are constantly looking for ways to improve their tech. What works? What doesn't? How can I make this better? This is not to say that FQ isn't doing this as well, but not on the scale with the pace that the CS is.

They all measure up in their own ways. The Taurus for instance has both range and power that the original does not. The Glitter-Girl and the Silver Wolf (I think that is the models' name) are well suited for both urban combat. The Glitter-Girl also excels in dealing with larger numbers of troops, where as the Silver Wolf is a moble armoured sniper. The CS boasts no specialty robots, save for the Glitter-Boy Killer (a doubious name at best given it's effectiveness) the Mauler (crappy under-sea model, ho!), and finally the Juicer-Killer. This last one is possibly the only model which is half-decent at its job.

You do raise a very good point on the forced development front; the CS is a place under pressure, so I don't think their military tech will fall behind.

, and that Titan robotics puts out highly advanced tech for almost nothing

There is a reason for the low cost, and it is not superior but on par and I have a feeling that you already know there is a reason behind that as well.

(if there were a 'smiles and nods vigorously' smilie, that is what I would have going on right now).

The CS's contribution? Not railguns; Germans do it better. So does Archie/Titan Robotics.

I don't think the Naruni are basing their projections on the Shemarrian Rail Gun, which already put the GR-Guns to shame.
Most of the tech in the world orginated from 'Titan' anyway.

They did put out that new giant robot with a Shemerrian gun look. There is much speculation as to why

Not PA; FQ's got that line covered, as does the BM.

Most that was inspired from the Coalition and nothing that can not be countered in the War Campaign. The tech level is still the same.

You aren't giving the Glitterboy the credit it deserves. The CS cannot produce them, yet even one suit is a rival for their multi-million dollar tanks. I've ran plenty of number for cost effectivenes of vehicles and the Glitterboy comes out as the overall winner. There are Ironheart tanks (which are cheaper for the armour and weapons), but they aren't nuclear.

Also, beyond some player/GM created thing, nothing rivals the pure awesomeness of the Wild Weasel's black box.

Wilks is private, and they make lasers better than the CS does.

Wilks is one in the same. Considering they are incorporated into 75% of all electronics on the continent and 45% of all Coalition items.

Which means that the CS is already out-sourcing their technology. Given that it is not Wilks that is taking the best from the CS, but the other way around, this proves my point sufficiently.

Then there are the geniuses over at teh GAW turning 300 year-old tanks into...well tanks again for practically nothing. I mean it costs you 110,000 to get a tank that has as much MDC as a SAMAS, yet they're doing it for 1/10th the price. And they're turing things like the Mountaineer into hover-vehicles.

Throwing some MDC on a tank and slapping on a hover platform to a 6 ton vehicle does not really qualify as raising technology when compared to a Fire Storm Mobile Fortress.

The firestorm Mobile fortess has about 6000MD on the wheels and can be hit by anyone that didn't role a 1. It also has a cost in the billions. for 110,000cr I can get 300MD; tack on another 90,000 for a decent weapon (like 1d6x10 at 4000ft) and you've got a decently effective tank that did not require any player enginuity. Now at 5 tanks per million, that's 1500MD. Now times that by 1000 (because there are that many millions in a billion) and you've got about 1,494,000MD more than the mobile fortress for the same price.
Seriously, the thing sucks.
To put this in different terms, you might have 50 glitterboys run against this thing specifically. barring all the other troops and vehicles that come inside a super-fortress, those 50 glitterboys will immobilize it in two attack actions, and completely destroy it in a round. The boomgun does an average of 105 points of damage; assuming that 95% hit their target (two misses) you're looking at about 5000 damage per attack from these single targets. These targets have (on average) 5 attacks. that's 25,000 damage in 15 seconds. These 50 Glitterboys didn't even reach the 1 billion mark in cost either. The super-fortress fall under the category of BDR.

[dark brandon]

In what areas? To be honest Free Quebec is already more advanced than the CS in Glitterboy Tech, and quite possibly bionics and juicers as they've been using them for far longer. In the areas of robots, power armor, and combat vehicles the CS dominates. As for genetics the CS is the king.

Taking some areas and comparing the CS to FQ:
Robots: The CS will dominate for quite some time, as FQ simply does not use them, nor care too. Instead they rely on thier hoards of Glitterboys to do the same stuff.
Power Armor: They believe thier hoards of Glitterboys are the best, and so rule in this area, though the CS has developed more diverse units, they arguably are not as good.
Combat Vehicles: The CS has far more diverse units, and will continue to dominate in this field, again due to FQ sticking with thier GB forces.
Genetics: Free Quebec does not like dogboys (ran all of em out), and probably wouldn't develope that tech at all.
Bionics: Right now FQ seems to have a bit of the upper hand here, but the CS is only stuck in 2nd place due to red tape, and the Emperor's personal feelings on the borgs. As the CS is turning around, thier borgs will quickly outshine FQ's in a matter of a few months, to a few years.
juicers: FQ and the CS both have equal tech here, the only advantage goes to FQ who has delt with them for far longer, but the war at Tolkeen has probably brought the CS up to speed quickly, so they tie here.
Navy: FQ is the winner here with more experiance, ships, and a better grasp of naval tactics. Though the CS will quickly close this gap in shear numbers, and the CS has higher tech vehicles, not neccesarily better.

I agree with this. It's not education that technically makes the tech...it's the $$

CS doesn't need to produce geniuses. It buys them (Or in my last post, makes them).

CS has access to what is known as the greatest library in RIFTS. (course, not everyone has access to it).

CS utilizes psychics, and therefor it can be argued that any child can be probed...or genetically tested to see if they have the traits for Geniusdom. Why waste money on people who are meant to die for a more glorious cause, like, the whims of your savior?

[Talavar]

the colation states is played to be some eveil empire ready to keep its popluation down trodden. That is not true. THe citizens of chi town are educated highlevel thinkers. The reason most are not educated is the are busy making farms and winning back the frontier from the dbee. Look at the jump from Smas to Super Samas was that down by a society that does not love tech. Furthermore they are in a fight for surivival. They are in a fight for humanity's very existence. Free QUebec hasn't faced the dangers the CS has. They are sheltered by them War breed inovation. Qubec has not had adversity so they do not evolve.

No. The highest levels of the CS are educated, high-level thinkers. The average CS citizen, even of Chi-town, is not.

The jump from the Samas to the Super Samas is due to contributions made by the NGR, as described in Coalition War Campaign, not technological discoveries or breakthroughs made by the CS.

Humanity exists in lots of places that aren't the CS just fine. Beyond combating the random monsters that come wandering, which FQ would also face, the CS is in a series of fights for based on ideology, military expansionism, and the whims of their dictator.

[dark brandon]

Humanity exists in lots of places that aren't the CS just fine.

It should be noted that there are note a lot of places that humanity exists. Even if you take all the pro-friendly city states out there, there isn't that many places that humanity exists in the same safty as it enjoys in the CS. CS is the safest place for humans to exist, even moreso than NGR and Quebec. CS is in a much more stable enviornment than NGR (stated in NGR I believe). No nation in NA can hope to bring CS down (Stated in NGR as well as SoT, in a statment from Plato that even with the combined forces of Lazlo and Tolkeen and with the war CS has on Quebec they STILL didn't stand a chance).

I believe there is also a pro-human nation in Japan, which may/may not be the exception, but regardless, no there are not "alot" of places where humanity is doing just fine.

[dark brandon]

The jump from the Samas to the Super Samas is due to contributions made by the NGR, as described in Coalition War Campaign, not technological discoveries or breakthroughs made by the CS.

Actually, strangely enough, I can't find reference to this. The only place I recall seeing that NGR tech had anything to do with CS was the airship in Underseas (Air dagger or something) and this was a CS/Triax joint invention and the New CS body armor which uses a ceramic developed by Triax. Other than that, I didn't find where they said this was because of NGR/Triax.

If you can, please post source on this.

[Talavar]

The jump from the Samas to the Super Samas is due to contributions made by the NGR, as described in Coalition War Campaign, not technological discoveries or breakthroughs made by the CS.

Actually, strangely enough, I can't find reference to this. The only place I recall seeing that NGR tech had anything to do with CS was the airship in Underseas (Air dagger or something) and this was a CS/Triax joint invention and the New CS body armor which uses a ceramic developed by Triax. Other than that, I didn't find where they said this was because of NGR/Triax.

If you can, please post source on this.

It mentions it a couple of times in the descriptive text, notably in the section describing the new armor of the CS troops (CWC, pg. 99). The armor in the new style, with the higher MDC values, was developed by Triax and shared with the CS. On close reading, the weapons systems could be CS developments, but the higher armour values are from collaboration.

It should be noted that there are note a lot of places that humanity exists. Even if you take all the pro-friendly city states out there, there isn't that many places that humanity exists in the same safty as it enjoys in the CS. CS is the safest place for humans to exist, even moreso than NGR and Quebec. CS is in a much more stable enviornment than NGR (stated in NGR I believe). No nation in NA can hope to bring CS down (Stated in NGR as well as SoT, in a statment from Plato that even with the combined forces of Lazlo and Tolkeen and with the war CS has on Quebec they STILL didn't stand a chance).

I believe there is also a pro-human nation in Japan, which may/may not be the exception, but regardless, no there are not "alot" of places where humanity is doing just fine.

What danger is Free Quebec particularly facing? Aside from random monsters, their main threat since seceding has been the rest of the CS. The NGR is certainly at greater threat of outright destruction, but from what little information we have, life in the major German cities seems fairly peaceful, and is at least as safe as anything in the CS, excepting the actual fortress cities.

But humanity doesn't just survive in the human-only nations. Lazlo and New Lazlo have plenty of humans, and their survival is only threatened by the CS. Same went for Tolkeen, prior to SoT. Humans are pretty secure in England, Russia, & Japan as well - there are threats, but these aren't monster-kingdoms like Atlantis, the Gargoyle Empire or China.

[dark brandon]

What danger is Free Quebec particularly facing? Aside from random monsters, their main threat since seceding has been the rest of the CS. The NGR is certainly at greater threat of outright destruction, but from what little information we have, life in the major German cities seems fairly peaceful, and is at least as safe as anything in the CS, excepting the actual fortress cities.

But humanity doesn't just survive in the human-only nations. Lazlo and New Lazlo have plenty of humans, and their survival is only threatened by the CS. Same went for Tolkeen, prior to SoT. Humans are pretty secure in England, Russia, & Japan as well - there are threats, but these aren't monster-kingdoms like Atlantis, the Gargoyle Empire or China.

There are some places where humanity does fine, I am not debating this statment. What I am saying, is that all things concidered we know CS humans have it best, and outside a few nations, there are many more places where humans are not doing fine. Magic zone, city of brass, alot of places in SA, atlantis, mexico. Humans exist in these areas mind you, but either as slave, food or toy.

[dark brandon]

well. yes and no. although they have more of an education system, they have to have the people (i.e. numbers) to make a difference. eventually they will. because the CS could have the next Einstien, but because they do not teach education he will remain an ignorant fool. FQ might also harbor a genuis, but what are the chances that he will get the education he needs. especially when in FQ with its low population any type of collage would cost out the ass. it would not be so Free in FQ.

This statement got me curious.

What do many of you believe genius comes from? In either form, I believe CS has the upper hand in being able to find and or make geniuses vs probably any other nation in the world.

Is it something that happens naturally or is it something that can be taught?

If it's natural, is it genetic or something more (psychic is what one is in BTS)?

If it is something that can be taught, would not the CS have the $$ time and energy to train young kids to be geniuses? About the only nation I could see that is superior to this is NGR.

If it's Genetic, with CS's ability to produce dog boys and having broken the h.g. code, be able to test for geniuses it has opposed to other nations simply because CS's knowledge of genetics is so far beyond anyone else's?

If it's psychic, would not the CS have an upper hand compared to others because they employ and make (dog boys) so many psychics with a wide variety of psionics that one alter aura shoudl and will detect if there is the presents of psionics. I know if CS catches a young psychic early, they can MAKE them any of the psionic types available (as per CWC, psi battalion, if they get a kid with psionic powers then they can be trained to be a MM, dominator, burster, sensitive). As of BTS a genius is a psychic it is very possible the CS could take a child and basically forge him into a genius.

[Chad]

in FQ the average citizen could if they wanted to. While not everyone can be doctors and lawyers, you'll get a much higher percentage of the population that are simply because such options are available to them.

I don't necessarily disagree with what your saying, but rather the implication behind it.
Just because a citizen has an option for a profession does not mean that he has an aptitude for it. His contributions towards that chosen field would be null.
I'm sure that FQ would encourage its citizens to pursue careers they have a talent for. However, the Coalition does the same thing, going as far as recruiting Rogue Scientist/Scholars. The difference being- the CS has a bigger population to work with; which means more citizens with an aptitude in any given field; which means more % chance of geniuses in said field. Roughly 10 CS geniuses for every 4 FQ (numbers taken strictly from population density- Sourcebook, pg. 12, old school).

You're joking, right?

Do you see me smiling.

The only people to recieve encouragement are the wealthy and powerful.

So you can see the Coalition saying with a big grin:
Well, Mr. Davis, I know you got noticed for your memory retention and problem solving abilities. And tested out with an IQ of two-hundred and ninety! However, your not rich, you don't know anybody, so how do feel about a job as a cook.

You're looking at a society where 85% of the population spells their name with an 'X'.

And your looking at a society where 100% of the population are French.

You're looking at the CS's top 15% of society having access to school, where as 60% of FQ's population go to school. The key difference here is that of the 15% that have access, it can be assumed that at least 10% do not go.

I don't know why you assume that 10% do not go, but, I think I'm starting to understand your theory.
You're stating that FQ has more skilled professionals than the CS does- which means that FQ will eventually close the tech gap and supass the CS.
I don't entirely agree with this.
I think you might be comparing FQ to Chi-Town. In which case you would be correct. FQ (50%) would have 203,000 (RUE) more skilled professionals than Chi-Town (13.5%). I'm comparing FQ to the entire Coalition- Chi-Town, El Dor, IH (don't forget to double- 27%), LS (which takes forever, cause the're all over the damn place), and the show me state. The Coalition, as a whole, would have roughly 47,680 more skilled professionals than FQ.
But like I stated, I don't entirely agree with this. Sure, it's a necessity. But there are alot of other contributing factors for technology to advance within a society. Like I stated earlier- One is less likely to invent something if one doesn't need it.

Being in North America has nothing to do with knowing what technology is being developed.

My point was, it is the only thing Naruni are going on (at least for the most part). Not Japan, Triax, or Geofront. The most tech on the continent is the Coalition.

Untrue, and the Naruni have had plenty of chances to sample other nations' technology.

Untrue, the Naruni have not had plenty of chances to sample Japan, Triax, or Geofronts' technology.

Besides this you trying to tell me that Prozek has North America, the continent, buttoned up better than the current US does? I find that doubtful at best.

You should find it impossible in the least.
That wasn't at all what I was trying to tell you. I'm stating: >The Naruni are only on North American soil. >Naruni projections are based on the technology they see in North America. >In North America, the Coalition (biggest army) has the majority of the technology.

'Borg railgun anyone?

I'll take one.

Then there is the work that the Black Market is doing; they are making the CS's trademark PA, the SAMAS better than the CS is making it.

The Black Market is making PA that is better than the Super SAMAS?
Are you referring to new designs out of Area 51? Lone Star has Top Secret Prototypes too.

Prove it. Oh wait, no book in the last ten years has said anything on said prototypes.

I could tell Palladium to hurry.

Besides this the BM has both a far greater and more powerful knowledge and cash base than any other single power in all of NA.

The BM doesn't have the highest and most abundant tech than any other single power in all of NA.

Add on that Glitterboys are in mass numbers up in Free Quebec

I haven't forgotten about the Naruni issue, but this is part of what I'm saying about FQ. They have GBs that haven't been upgraded since the Golden Age. I'm not referring to something like the glitter girl , or the other half dozen or so models they put out that still, IMO, don't measure up to the original.

They all measure up in their own ways.

That's true. They all have their uniqueness. I just get to looking at all the vehicles and PA out there sometimes and can't help but think to myself, 'Man. Some of this stuff is just so redundant'.

Not PA; FQ's got that line covered, as does the BM.

Most that was inspired from the Coalition and nothing that can not be countered in the War Campaign. The tech level is still the same.

You aren't giving the Glitterboy the credit it deserves.

I was referring mainly to the BM.
Don't get me wrong, the GB is awesome.
And I'm sure that is part of what the Naruni factored in.

Wilks is private, and they make lasers better than the CS does.

Wilks is one in the same. Considering they are incorporated into 75% of all electronics on the continent and 45% of all Coalition items.

Which means that the CS is already out-sourcing their technology. Given that it is not Wilks that is taking the best from the CS, but the other way around, this proves my point sufficiently.

Yeah, the CS and everybody else. Wilks is the best. That's what I was getting at. Wilk's is so integrated into everything, it's next to impossible to take them out of the picture.

Then there are the geniuses over at teh GAW turning 300 year-old tanks into...well tanks again for practically nothing. I mean it costs you 110,000 to get a tank that has as much MDC as a SAMAS, yet they're doing it for 1/10th the price. And they're turing things like the Mountaineer into hover-vehicles.

Throwing some MDC on a tank and slapping on a hover platform to a 6 ton vehicle does not really qualify as raising technology when compared to a Fire Storm Mobile Fortress.

The firestorm Mobile fortess has about 6000MD on the wheels and can be hit by anyone that didn't role a 1. It also has a cost in the billions. for 110,000cr I can get 300MD; tack on another 90,000 for a decent weapon (like 1d6x10 at 4000ft) and you've got a decently effective tank that did not require any player enginuity. Now at 5 tanks per million, that's 1500MD. Now times that by 1000 (because there are that many millions in a billion) and you've got about 1,494,000MD more than the mobile fortress for the same price.

Yeah, but...(see below)...

Seriously, the thing sucks.

Seriously, you don't want to go up against it.

To put this in different terms, you might have 50 glitterboys

50!?!
Is that all.

run against this thing specifically. barring all the other troops and vehicles that come inside a super-fortress, those 50 glitterboys will immobilize it in two attack actions, and completely destroy it in a round. The boomgun does an average of 105 points of damage; assuming that 95% hit their target (two misses) you're looking at about 5000 damage per attack from these single targets. These targets have (on average) 5 attacks. that's 25,000 damage in 15 seconds.

So 50 Chromium Guardsmen can surround an empty Super-Fortress and in 1 melee- blow that sucker to hell.
I concede to that.

These 50 Glitterboys didn't even reach the 1 billion mark in cost either. The super-fortress fall under the category of BDR.

For a little over a quarter of a billion, I could get a 'Star Ghost'.
There are all kinds of cost efficient ways of doing things. For 1/10th of that cost I could mount a 1000 vibro-knives on a MDC plate for the front of my vehicle and have one hell of a battering ram. It might make the Naruni stop and say "huh???!!, but it is not going to lead them to believe, "Yep. In a 100 years, that bad boy's gonna have him some Anti-Grav tech.

[Talavar]

well. yes and no. although they have more of an education system, they have to have the people (i.e. numbers) to make a difference. eventually they will. because the CS could have the next Einstien, but because they do not teach education he will remain an ignorant fool. FQ might also harbor a genuis, but what are the chances that he will get the education he needs. especially when in FQ with its low population any type of collage would cost out the ass. it would not be so Free in FQ.

This statement got me curious.

What do many of you believe genius comes from? In either form, I believe CS has the upper hand in being able to find and or make geniuses vs probably any other nation in the world.

Is it something that happens naturally or is it something that can be taught?

If it's natural, is it genetic or something more (psychic is what one is in BTS)?

If it is something that can be taught, would not the CS have the $$ time and energy to train young kids to be geniuses? About the only nation I could see that is superior to this is NGR.

If it's Genetic, with CS's ability to produce dog boys and having broken the h.g. code, be able to test for geniuses it has opposed to other nations simply because CS's knowledge of genetics is so far beyond anyone else's?

If it's psychic, would not the CS have an upper hand compared to others because they employ and make (dog boys) so many psychics with a wide variety of psionics that one alter aura shoudl and will detect if there is the presents of psionics. I know if CS catches a young psychic early, they can MAKE them any of the psionic types available (as per CWC, psi battalion, if they get a kid with psionic powers then they can be trained to be a MM, dominator, burster, sensitive). As of BTS a genius is a psychic it is very possible the CS could take a child and basically forge him into a genius.

Well, I don't think we can get a real-world consensus on what makes a genius, but I personally believe it's a combination of things. It's been demonstrated that while there is a genetic component to intelligence, that's not solely it - a person with the potential for high intelligence genetically must also receive the proper education during their formative years to reach that potential. For genius, I'd say that the same holds true - but to an even greater extreme. A genius probably has some genetic factor that contributes to the potential for exceptionally high intelligence, but it's also important that, as a child, they receive the appropriate upbringing and education.

I dispute your statement that the CS could just genetically engineer for genius though, even if it was soley genetic - if the CS was willing and able to use that sort of genetic engineering on their own populace, why don't all their soldiers have high exceptional physical attributes?

Plus, genetically engineering super-humans might not be a benefit for the current leadership of the CS. Khan Noonien Singh for CS emperor, anyone?

[csbioborg]

the colation states is played to be some eveil empire.

That's because it is an evil empire. I know that not every soldier in the CS army is evil, but when they go around killing anything that's not human just because it's not human is wrong. Not all dbee's are bloodthirsty monsters looking for souls to steal and not all magic-users are demon worshiping baby killers, but don't say that to the CS. Seriously, Karl Proseck (I think that' show you spell it?) admires and idolizes ADOLF HITLER for crying out loud. Read up on the CS top brass, most if not all of them are human supremist, but none of them believe the crap fed to the mass population. Proseck lies to his own nation, keeps his people uneducated so their more easily controlled and don't forget the sociopathic part. He is a very evil man and it's his empire, hence "Evil Empire".

Modern man has lived under the protection of its leaders. During World War II thier was massive censorship withint the United States. Did that make the fight against Nazism wrong. To live in the time of the rifts is to live in a time where one wayward soul can be the link to alien inteliigences coming into our dimesnion. THese dbees are alien lifeforms. Of the thosands of races that emerge from the rifts who is to know which one is benign and which one is born with arcane and diabloical power barely comprehensible to the average. Citizen.

I ask you would you have us give all people acccess to information. Let any book be accesiable. Allow them to decide for themselves who they should hthink?

Then go ahead and publish how to gain superhuman power by slaving yourself to a alien intelligence. Become a master vampire and be a prince among demons just by agreeing. The brave men of the CS live in a world besieged on all sides by forces that wish them death and slavery. Even the slightest moment of weakness is enough to bring clamity to all. Karl Prosek is a hero that has brought all manner of invoation to mankind. Security first. Long life. By canon those citizens from the farmer to the soldier no longer fear disease such as Parkinson and Alsherimers. THey live longer fruitful lives. Take the Master vampire Xaixer from the Arzno book . Before he forsought the light of the Coalition he was 41 but lokoked 30 becasue of Coalition medicine and he was just a average soldier


As for thier FQ surpassing the CS. NOt anytime soon. Four years of war has allowed them to field test there armies against the most powerful magic kingdom in NA. THey have been able to determien what works and what dosen't. The CS sceienteist have ample data to bring back and use in making new innovations. With the purge of the Naruni thier tech was taken and is being reversed enjineered in CS labs. Just as Genhis Khan brought innovation to his peole such as literture so does Emperor Prosek do for his. FQ has none of these benefits they simply develop what they think will work without any real testing of thier equipment against a legitmate enemy.



RNC I'm gong to put this in terms easily understood. Your training everyday with a large group of people. You have lots of people to train with but they all train the same way since all of you are from the same school. All you train is traditional jiu jitsu.

Another guy There's another group that is a smaller gym with guys from Eddie Bravo Gokor Relsons Pure BReed. THey bring tecnique from all over.the world. One day the two of you meet in comp. You have a more solid base than him since you train all the time. You shoot for the double take him down. He immediately goes to rubber guard. Since you have not trained aginst that you don't know what's coming. Your caught in New York. He keeps pulling his leg over. He goes for a omplata. You think I've seen this before. I'll just roll out to defend and then go up to turtle right away so he doesen't get side mount point. You do just that. As you roll out he goes for what he really wanted and grabs your ankle in a toehold.



The CS is just like that guy they have fought against all sorts of opponets so they have the tech equiv of rubber guard leglocks. gogo in addition to the regular tech


So while Free Quebecs tech eqiv of a rear naked choke might be better the Coalition will always drop its hips spin out and sit back for a heel hook becasue they've tested thier tech in compeition.



That last part was just for rear naked choke

[csbioborg]

oh and taalisman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGEz31RA ... h_response

We call upon our troops
In this our darkest hour
Our way of life is what we are fighting for
The flag that flies above us inspires us everyday
To give our best in every way!
It's a good day to die
When you know the reasons why
Citizens we fight for what is right
A noble sacrifice
When duty call, you pay the price
For the Coalition I will give me life
Well all is fair in love and war, that's what my gunny says
Your not alive unless your almost dying
These are the Words I march by Duty, Courage, Honor
Every single day I've been trying

It's a good day to die
When you know the reasons why
Citizens we fight for what is right
A noble sacrifice
When duty calls you pay the price
For the Coaltion I will give my life
(COurage, Honor, Duty)
The eagle, he flies high above us
The eagle, he makes our spirits soar
He's giving us the strenght to carry on
To fly and win this war!

It's a good day to die
When you know the reasons why
Citizens we fight for what is right
(Courage, Duty honor)
A noble sacrifice
When duty calls you pay the price
For the Coaltion I will give my life

It's a good day to die
When you know the reasons why
Citizens we fight for what is right
(Courage, Duty honor)
A noble sacrifice
When duty calls you pay the price
For the Coaltion I will give my life

[csbioborg]

No but I do have serveal Nietzche books by my bed. Beyond Good and Evil being my most prized. By Rifts Canon that is the favorite philopher of the coalition military. See Tolkeen Wars

[csbioborg]

No but I do have serveal Nietzche books by my bed. Beyond Good and Evil being my most prized. By Rifts Canon that is the favorite philopher of the coalition military. See Tolkeen Wars

You mean Nietzsche? That guy was even more insane that Hitler and Prosek combined! You might want to lay off the RPG stuff if your read that crap just to get a feel for the CS should be played in game. I'm serious man, that dude died completely bonkers.

No I don't read him for rifts I took a class when I was at UCSD and some of the required reading was on his work. I feel in love with his work ever since. Have you read much of his work. It is incrediably profound. Actually Baret Yohida my jiu jitsu instrucor is a big fan as well as many people at my mma gym, None of them play rpgs

[csbioborg]

[That last part was just for rear naked choke

I agree with you that FQ will never equal the CS tech wise, it's the part about the CS being mankind's only hope for salvation that we will never see eye-to-eye......especially if your reading, and even remotely believing, Nietzsche's works.

Is notion that the defining measure of a man is his will to power revolutionized how I thought about the world.

[csbioborg]

He was against most forms of organized religion but God is Dead needs to be taken with a grain of salt. He persoanlly believed the German people should go back to worshipping Odin and the other gods odthier ancestors. He viewed the Chrtian model of man to be flawed and more of a illusion to be pierced. I agree with the notion that the idea manis on some quintessential level better than a animal is hubris on our part. Then I was raised Buddhist so the underlying mores of my belief system are likely different than yours

[dark brandon]

Well, I don't think we can get a real-world consensus on what makes a genius, but I personally believe it's a combination of things.

Which is probably why for the interest of the argument, I prefer to assume it's a type of untapped psychic power (as it is described in BTS)

I dispute your statement that the CS could just genetically engineer for genius though, even if it was soley genetic - if the CS was willing and able to use that sort of genetic engineering on their own populace, why don't all their soldiers have high exceptional physical attributes?

Plus, genetically engineering super-humans might not be a benefit for the current leadership of the CS. Khan Noonien Singh for CS emperor, anyone?

I don't believe they'd engineer super humans, though, the average lifespan of a CS citizen is something like over 120 or so years old?

It would come down to why they wouldn't which would be completely subjective to each rifts player.

Me personally, CS has no interest in replaceing humans with "superhumans". It would be too hypocritical, and in my mind, as evil as Proseks are, they still have some values (as described in their descriptions). As such since (in this case we're assuming it's genetic), they would have the ability to find the genetic code to see which children are capable of being genuses. There's no reason to make them, nature supplies her own.

Though, in my opinion, based on canon evidence of BTS, genius is a form of psychic power, which gives the CS (and probably pyscape) an upper hand in finding geniuses without having to subject the whole populous to "schooling"

[Talavar]

Well, I don't think we can get a real-world consensus on what makes a genius, but I personally believe it's a combination of things.

Which is probably why for the interest of the argument, I prefer to assume it's a type of untapped psychic power (as it is described in BTS)

I dispute your statement that the CS could just genetically engineer for genius though, even if it was soley genetic - if the CS was willing and able to use that sort of genetic engineering on their own populace, why don't all their soldiers have high exceptional physical attributes?

Plus, genetically engineering super-humans might not be a benefit for the current leadership of the CS. Khan Noonien Singh for CS emperor, anyone?

I don't believe they'd engineer super humans, though, the average lifespan of a CS citizen is something like over 120 or so years old?

It would come down to why they wouldn't which would be completely subjective to each rifts player.

Me personally, CS has no interest in replaceing humans with "superhumans". It would be too hypocritical, and in my mind, as evil as Proseks are, they still have some values (as described in their descriptions). As such since (in this case we're assuming it's genetic), they would have the ability to find the genetic code to see which children are capable of being genuses. There's no reason to make them, nature supplies her own.

Though, in my opinion, based on canon evidence of BTS, genius is a form of psychic power, which gives the CS (and probably pyscape) an upper hand in finding geniuses without having to subject the whole populous to "schooling"

Some sort of psionic test for genius is an intriguing idea - that would certainly give an edge to the CS and Psyscape (& probably Lazlo, they seem to like psychics). Some sort of CS think-tank of brilliant, socially-unstable geniuses could make an interesting story idea, and how they relate to the military/leadership who probably aren't as bright as they would be.

As an aside, I've always wondered - since Free Quebec doesn't use dog boys, or much use of human mutants like psi-stalkers and other psychics - how do they detect the supernatural? What's stopping a bunch of vampires from taking out the FQ leadership and making them their puppets? Or a raksasha demon killing the leader and impersonating him with shapeshifting? It seems like a major weak area.

[Library Ogre]

I think a simple mistake is being made by many here: That the CS doesn't educate its young. I think they almost certainly must; given their background, it's unlikely that they use child labor, and they certainly don't allow people 16-18 years of running around without some sort of structure. The question becomes, then, what is a civic education like?

If you're of the middle-to-lower classes of the city dwellers, your early education probably isn't that much different than kindergarten 25-30 years ago; you don't learn to read, but you learn songs, games, and stories. The education emphasizes the scariness of D-Bees, wizards, and loyalty to the CS. Think of Hansel and Gretel, where good children are lured to their near-death by a witch, only to be saved by their own cleverness (emphasizes both evilness and stupidity of Men of Magic), or Red Riding Hood (where a girl is menaced by a talking wolf, only to be saved at the last minute by a CS Soldier or worker), or maybe Snow White (with the seven dwarfs replaced, perhaps, by Dog Boys or simply humans). Here you'll also learn basic numeracy, maybe the beginnings of addition and subtraction.

Once you got to about 8, you're looking at education emphasizing teamwork and problem solving. Team sports (soccer, baseball, even combat sims like laser tag), building and art projects, maybe some trips to places to show how the CS runs. Here your numeracy is expanded to include addition, subtraction, multiplication and division, including some simple algebra and geometry.

When you get to 16, you start learning how to use hover vehicles and road vehicles, as well as some job training (with careers you try out being suggested by aptitude tests). Everyone hear's the military's recruitment pitch.

If you belong to a Lofty family, things start off very similar, but with books evident; while LLs will use a large screen, which just has pictures, a Lofty classroom will have the words written on the screen, and may even have some picture books (or Kindle-like devices) available, and the teachers will visibly read. Once you hit about 8, you get more academics; history, reading and writing, etc. Still a lot of sports and projects, but with constant evaluation for leadership. Combat sims and games have more complex objectives, designed to stimulate students and weed out those who can't quite hack it. At 16, the academics really kick up, and they start getting career selection advice, like the LLs. Mathematics is big, but so is things having to do with literacy, including historical readings and composition.

If you live out in the provinces (i.e. non-city environment), you likely get little formal education; numeracy as far as is necessary, skills and practical skills, like gardening and animal husbandry for rural places, or job skills in semi-rural areas. Weapon and driving skills happen a lot sooner, but are lower-end (i.e. Automobile instead of Hovercraft; WP Rifle instead of WP E-Rifle).

Now, what does Quebec do differently? My bet is that they include literacy at all levels of education, but are otherwise fairly similar to the LLs. Since you're not selecting elites and training only them in academic skills, the level of their education will trend towards the lower end.

[csbioborg]

As an aside, I've always wondered - since Free Quebec doesn't use dog boys, or much use of human mutants like psi-stalkers and other psychics - how do they detect the supernatural? What's stopping a bunch of vampires from taking out the FQ leadership and making them their puppets? Or a raksasha demon killing the leader and impersonating him with shapeshifting? It seems like a major weak area.[/quote]


They problay use the cs psi scanner from psyscape. It has good avialblity on the black market and can detect whether someone is a pskic or has more than 20ppe I'm sure every government builindg has a large one. The version described in psycape is handheld. In Quebec they are problay the size of air port metal detctors and are even more accurate. That takes care of shape shifters. Mind control could be detremined by mandaotry pskc evalutions for all officals in order to detremine mind control.