Dim Mak Cure?

[The Beast]

I may be reading these 2 abilities wrong, but I don't think so. Anyway, if one has Chi Healing and/or Negative Chi Control could they use this to rid themselves or others of Dim Mak. Neither one of those powers say they can't be, and Dim Mak says it only disrupts the natural ability to regain Chi. It says nothing about those who have learned to control their Chi.

[Guest]

I may be reading these 2 abilities wrong, but I don't think so. Anyway, if one has Chi Healing and/or Negative Chi Control could they use this to rid themselves or others of Dim Mak.

No.

Neither one of those powers say they can't be, and Dim Mak says it only disrupts the natural ability to regain Chi. It says nothing about those who have learned to control their Chi.

The book already states the reason there is no listed cure for Dim Mak. (However, Rifts CB1 lists two successfull Remove Curse spells cast by two different people within an hour as a cure.)

Besides, Chi disruption means the character can't use any of their Chi Mastery abilities, chi skills, or chi magic.

[Sentinel]

(However, Rifts CB1 lists two successfull Remove Curse spells cast by two different people within an hour as a cure.)

Of course, if you don't use magic in your N&SS game (and I don't recall a Remove Curse anywhere in Mystic China) then this option isn't really available.

[wolfsgrin]

In my opinion, nothing is impossible. Especially when your the one running the game. As far as official rulings, no known cure for Dim Mak. But you could base a whole adventure on finding one. Your the GM so do as one will. Search for ancient healers and they in turn send the pc on a quest to fin rare flowers or herbs. Maybe toss in that they have to find ancient writings on how to mix the stuff in the first place. Or an ancient template of a complex healing system long forgotton. I would just make it almost impossible to get it done. Lots of difficult rolls, and a complex story interwoven. Maybe the ancient healing master has evil intentions or something. Just make it tough. Make whatever they want fated to be sought out by other beings or forces and you could have a campain just to save a person from the dim mak.

[Sentinel]

In my own campaigns I have come up with three cures for Dim Mak, all campaign specific.
But, canonically, there is no official cure.

[Slag]

Revised N&S mentions A Cure for Dim Mak? as a campagn/adventure concept.

I think the whole point is to find a campaign-specific cure as an adventure hook.


The Rifts Remove Curse cure is, IMHO, a method of containing a potential campaign crossover loophole and munchin corral.

[Guest]

Revised N&S mentions A Cure for Dim Mak? as a campagn/adventure concept.

I think the whole point is to find a campaign-specific cure as an adventure hook.


The Rifts Remove Curse cure is, IMHO, a method of containing a potential campaign crossover loophole and munchin corral.

I think the Rifts Remove Curse bit is the result of another misconception myself, there's no mention of Dim Mak being a "curse" in N&S, yet the conversion book references it as "the powerful dim mak curse."

[wolfsgrin]

Dim Mak a curse!?! Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! bad Palladium Books.

[Natalya]

But, canonically, there is no official cure.

Discorporate.

Another thought though. What if you die, and someone uses Spark of Life (Library of Bletherad)? When revived, would you still suffer from Dim Mak, or would death cause that to go away?

{Please hurry with an answer, as a @#$% NPC inflicted Dim Mak on my Tao Shih at the game two weeks ago! }

[wolfsgrin]

I would say no. Cuase Dim Mak actually disrupts the life force that runs through you- chi/jing/shin whatever you wanna call it. But its all connected and Dim Mak attacks it.

[Slag]

Will a real Alchemist's potion of Immortality cure the Dim Mak?

Interesting question. If you live on at negative Chi, will you become some quasi-demon?

That could make for some interesting campaigning!

[Guest]

But, canonically, there is no official cure.

Discorporate.

Another thought though. What if you die, and someone uses Spark of Life (Library of Bletherad)? When revived, would you still suffer from Dim Mak, or would death cause that to go away?

{Please hurry with an answer, as a @#$% NPC inflicted Dim Mak on my Tao Shih at the game two weeks ago! }

Unfortunately, it looks like the Dim Mak would have to be removed before the spell would work.

Will a real Alchemist's potion of Immortality cure the Dim Mak?

Possibly. There were a lot of Immortality potions out there.

Interesting question. If you live on at negative Chi, will you become some quasi-demon?

That could make for some interesting campaigning!

They'll probably end up back in the Yama Hells, hating life, just like if they get killed...and no, I'm still not quite sure how that is supposed to work.

[The Beast]

Kuseru Satsujin[b] wrote:

The book already states the reason there is no listed cure for Dim Mak.

It only states that at the end of the book. NOT under the Dim Mak description

[Guest]

Kuseru Satsujin[b] wrote:

The book already states the reason there is no listed cure for Dim Mak.

It only states that at the end of the book. NOT under the Dim Mak description

So I guess you missed the note at the very end of the description of Dim Mak stating, "See the Game Master Section for finding a cure to Dim Mak."

[Mantisking]

Originally posted by wolfsgrin99.
I would say no. Cuase Dim Mak actually disrupts the life force that runs through you- chi/jing/shin whatever you wanna call it. But its all connected and Dim Mak attacks it.

Technically, Dim Mak disrupts the flow of Ch'i along the meridians, it doesn't disrupt Ch'i itself.

[wolfsgrin]

Well if your disrupting the meridians, your disrupting the chi. Besides your disrupting chi orbits as well . There are countless micro orbits of chi, virtually making the whole body a Dim Mak point if one's intent(mind leads the chi) is strong enough. The meridians are just guidlines for chi, like ley lines. You can pull chi out of everywhere, its just stronger from specific areas. So to say your only affecting meridians is a little narrow minded cause you can attack chakras as well with Dim Mak. You can attack directly to whatever organ you want to damage as well. Make the way basically. But this is based in real teachings of dim mak and not the offical palladium rules. There is a lot of great material out there to read. But there is also a lot crap. Luckily I have masters that know what they are talking about and are very well steeped in the Tibetan Iron Plate system. Chi only works as for as your mind can lead it. Besides I'm not saying your wrong, Im not saying Im right its just what I believe

[Guest]

Obviously the conversion book was referring to the curse (even though we don't know where that is) and not the touch, so there is no cure for the touch except for what the GM comes up with, which should be something.

As it is though, unless you use chi abilities or someone hits you with negative chi, dim mak does NOTHING to you.

Where do you come up with this stuff? It's pretty obvious that anyone hit with Dim Mak is gonna die unless they can find a cure. The only down side is we weren't given an official rate at which chi drains away from the body.

What I think is that you should begin to lose 1 chi a week or a month or something, chi that the body naturally uses to keep running but you never notice it leaving because you regenerate it in a night's sleep. That way there can be some kind of cap on it.

...

[Sentinel]

The only down side is we weren't given an official rate at which chi drains away from the body.

What has your research led you to for an un-official answer to this?

[Guest]

The only down side is we weren't given an official rate at which chi drains away from the body.

What has your research led you to for an un-official answer to this?

Subtract 1D6 points of Chi per week.

[Sentinel]

That all? No Hit Point wastage?

[Guest]

That all? No Hit Point wastage?

That's not how Dim Mak works. Remember, first you lose your chi, then you lose your ability to heal, then you start getting disease and other nasty stuff, then death.

[Natalya]

That all? No Hit Point wastage?

That's not how Dim Mak works. Remember, first you lose your chi, then you lose your ability to heal, then you start getting disease and other nasty stuff, then death.

Our GM works it that once your chi is gone, you're not likely to survive long at all. He took the extreme definition of not being able to heal without chi, so if you so much as get a papercut with zero chi, you're going to bleed to death within minutes.

Anything that brings chi to zero or in the negative is going to cause things like inability to clot and stuff. Dim mak is just super nasty because it's about the only thing that prevents another person from putting chi back into you (allowing recovery).

With his definition, there's no time to start getting diseases.

[Sentinel]

That all? No Hit Point wastage?

That's not how Dim Mak works. Remember, first you lose your chi, then you lose your ability to heal, then you start getting disease and other nasty stuff, then death.

I know: I just wanted a more immediate effect from this dreaded martial art power to inflict hurt on players with. Something different than super-powers, magic, or psionics. And, slightly more useful than Fist Gesture and Negative Empty Chi.

[wolfsgrin]

Read Erle Montaigue and Wally Simpson's Encyclopdia of Dim-Mak The Main Meridians.

[Guest]

That all? No Hit Point wastage?

That's not how Dim Mak works. Remember, first you lose your chi, then you lose your ability to heal, then you start getting disease and other nasty stuff, then death.

I know: I just wanted a more immediate effect from this dreaded martial art power to inflict hurt on players with. Something different than super-powers, magic, or psionics. And, slightly more useful than Fist Gesture and Negative Empty Chi.

There's always Negative Chi Attack followed up by Control Negative Chi. I've found that hitting your victim with a couple hundred points of negative chi then igniting it usually takes care of just about any problems.

[The Beast]

Obviously the conversion book was referring to the curse (even though we don't know where that is) and not the touch, so there is no cure for the touch except for what the GM comes up with, which should be something.

As it is though, unless you use chi abilities or someone hits you with negative chi, dim mak does NOTHING to you.

What I think is that you should begin to lose 1 chi a week or a month or something, chi that the body naturally uses to keep running but you never notice it leaving because you regenerate it in a night's sleep. That way there can be some kind of cap on it.

The book is referring to the touch, and not having chi abilities doesn't protect you. Everything has chi.

[The Beast]

Kuseru Satsujin[b] wrote:

The book already states the reason there is no listed cure for Dim Mak.

It only states that at the end of the book. NOT under the Dim Mak description

So I guess you missed the note at the very end of the description of Dim Mak stating, "See the Game Master Section for finding a cure to Dim Mak."

Yes, I did see that. Perhaps you missed the section in there about possible cures?

[Guest]

Kuseru Satsujin[b] wrote:

The book already states the reason there is no listed cure for Dim Mak.

It only states that at the end of the book. NOT under the Dim Mak description

So I guess you missed the note at the very end of the description of Dim Mak stating, "See the Game Master Section for finding a cure to Dim Mak."

Yes, I did see that. Perhaps you missed the section in there about possible cures?

You can't have it both ways, either the book states that there's no listed cure or it doesn't, just because it says there are possible cures doesn't mean you get to say that there is no statement under Dim Mak that there is no cure is the reason you get to try your idea as a cure.

[Sentinel]

Everything has chi.

But not everyone or everything has Chi Abilities.
Having Chi does not grant Mastery of Chi.

[Guest]

Everything has chi.

But not everyone or everything has Chi Abilities.
Having Chi does not grant Mastery of Chi.

No one said it did.

[The Beast]

Kuseru Satsujin[b] wrote:

The book already states the reason there is no listed cure for Dim Mak.

It only states that at the end of the book. NOT under the Dim Mak description

So I guess you missed the note at the very end of the description of Dim Mak stating, "See the Game Master Section for finding a cure to Dim Mak."

Yes, I did see that. Perhaps you missed the section in there about possible cures?

You can't have it both ways, either the book states that there's no listed cure or it doesn't, just because it says there are possible cures doesn't mean you get to say that there is no statement under Dim Mak that there is no cure is the reason you get to try your idea as a cure.

I don't have it both ways, the book does. It also says that there are chi masters that have held Dim Mak back for years and such. I'm just asking if this is one possible cure that the book says are out there.

[Guest]

Everything has chi.

Technically speaking, everything alive has ch'i.

Actually, technically speaking, everything has chi. This came up one before when someone asked Erick how Tamashiwara could work if only living things had chi. He stated that most objects have negligible amounts of chi that could be broken.

[Guest]

Everything has chi.

Technically speaking, everything alive has ch'i.

And rocks....rocks have chi.

Not to mention pockets. Rocks have three pockets, in which they store gum.

[Guest]

Everything has chi.

Technically speaking, everything alive has ch'i.

And rocks....rocks have chi.

Not to mention pockets. Rocks have three pockets, in which they store gum.

Mint, or some bubble-variant?

IIRC, bubble. It's been a while since I asked rocks what type of gum they like though.

[The Beast]

Everything has chi.

Technically speaking, everything alive has ch'i.

Actually, technically speaking, everything has chi. This came up one before when someone asked Erick how Tamashiwara could work if only living things had chi. He stated that most objects have negligible amounts of chi that could be broken.

Yes, everything has chi. More specificly, living creatures have positive chi, and non-living items have negative chi (what about undead?).

This came up because someone in a previous post had said something along the lines of those without chi mastery can't be harmed by negative chi attacks because they don't have chi.

[Guest]

Everything has chi.

Technically speaking, everything alive has ch'i.

Actually, technically speaking, everything has chi. This came up one before when someone asked Erick how Tamashiwara could work if only living things had chi. He stated that most objects have negligible amounts of chi that could be broken.

Yes, everything has chi. More specificly, living creatures have positive chi, and non-living items have negative chi (what about undead?).

Non-living items don't have negative chi, they have both postive and negative chi (unless of course they're created or filled with Positive or Negative Chi, in which case they have that type of Chi). Undead have negative chi, so do several spirits, demons, and supernatural beings.

This came up because someone in a previous post had said something along the lines of those without chi mastery can't be harmed by negative chi attacks because they don't have chi.

Actually it was "those who don't have chi mastery can't be harmed by Dim Mak", but they're both equally incorrect assessments.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Will a real Alchemist's potion of Immortality cure the Dim Mak?

Interesting question. If you live on at negative Chi, will you become some quasi-demon?

That could make for some interesting campaigning!

offically, if you continue to live off of negative chi, you become an Undead immortal as per Mystic china. in fact, it says it's the most common accidental meathod of immorality.

[FreelancerMar]

This is how I would work it.

A Dim Mak Aflicted person would loose 1 point of chi per 24 hour period. Once your chi runs out Repeat with SDC and then repeat with Hit points. You also basically loose your immune system and the ability to heal any kind of damage that may befall you. The Chi of most folks is roughly equal to the PE attribute. This means most normal folks(eg non-chi masters) would have roughly a little more than a month to live at the most. The vast majority of folks wouldn't even last that long. Most Westernized Modern Medicine would not even know how/why the person is getting sick. With the possable exception of perhaps Dr House.

This post has been edited with an update because I missed something with my origional post.

[Regularguy]

Doesn't N&S specify that the Healing Factor power from HU will counter Dim Mak?

[mastermesh]

it all depends on the GM. In our campaign from many years ago, we found several cures for Dim Mak.

One of them involved finding the island Winshiloskera and the Pacific Ocean - it was a magical island that had a magical society on it. It was a combination between Shangra La myths and something similar to the island on the Lost TV series, except it was all done about 10 years before Lost came around... Wifinil, a Time Travelling Magician was the leader of this island. PCs would run in to him on a number of different occassions. Sometimes he was younger then the last time they found him, othertimes older. Basically, the cure involved finding a sort of fountain of youth where you went back and forth through time to keep your body from death and/or going to the island and staying there where the main citadel was a cave under a waterfall in a huge forest so the positive chi there was at a level high enough to keep the negative effects from taking effect - you used chi powers to essentially live forever. The entire island was in a sort of rift by itself, so it would appear at any time and any place in the megaverse, and could never be found on any map - you just had to know the way there through guides that lived there and/or gave you amulets that led the way.

[JuliusCreed]

Doesn't N&S specify that the Healing Factor power from HU will counter Dim Mak?

"Characters with Healing Factor, while they have no more than standard Chi (equal to their PE) can heal their Chi at double the normal rate. Healing Factor also makes the character immune to Dim Mak, and if infected with negative Chi, allows for automatically dispelling it at a rate of one point per hour"
N&S pg 166 FAQ on combining HU with N&S

[Regularguy]

Doesn't N&S specify that the Healing Factor power from HU will counter Dim Mak?

"Characters with Healing Factor, while they have no more than standard Chi (equal to their PE) can heal their Chi at double the normal rate. Healing Factor also makes the character immune to Dim Mak, and if infected with negative Chi, allows for automatically dispelling it at a rate of one point per hour"
N&S pg 166 FAQ on combining HU with N&S

Right. So if you build an HU superhero in the Keeper of an Enchanted Object power category, and make his magic ring or whatever grant Healing Factor, then what happens if he gives that enchanted object to someone who's been hit with Dim Mak?

[JuliusCreed]

Doesn't N&S specify that the Healing Factor power from HU will counter Dim Mak?

"Characters with Healing Factor, while they have no more than standard Chi (equal to their PE) can heal their Chi at double the normal rate. Healing Factor also makes the character immune to Dim Mak, and if infected with negative Chi, allows for automatically dispelling it at a rate of one point per hour"
N&S pg 166 FAQ on combining HU with N&S

Right. So if you build an HU superhero in the Keeper of an Enchanted Object power category, and make his magic ring or whatever grant Healing Factor, then what happens if he gives that enchanted object to someone who's been hit with Dim Mak?

Not sure what the written law is on magic objects in HU (lost my copy a few years back) but personally I'd say nothing. The item is more or less "attuned" to its current owner and wouldn't grant the abilities to anyone else until they are dead or possibly after a suitably lengthy time of non-contact/use, say about six months or so. that way the item can go through a sort of mystic reset and become attuned to a new owner/user.

[Regularguy]

Not sure what the written law is on magic objects in HU (lost my copy a few years back) but personally I'd say nothing. The item is more or less "attuned" to its current owner and wouldn't grant the abilities to anyone else until they are dead or possibly after a suitably lengthy time of non-contact/use, say about six months or so. that way the item can go through a sort of mystic reset and become attuned to a new owner/user.

You're thinking of Enchanted Weapon, which also comes with Alignment restrictions; an Enchanted Object, which has no Alignment restrictions, requires no time for a new "attune".

[JuliusCreed]

Not sure what the written law is on magic objects in HU (lost my copy a few years back) but personally I'd say nothing. The item is more or less "attuned" to its current owner and wouldn't grant the abilities to anyone else until they are dead or possibly after a suitably lengthy time of non-contact/use, say about six months or so. that way the item can go through a sort of mystic reset and become attuned to a new owner/user.

You're thinking of Enchanted Weapon, which also comes with Alignment restrictions; an Enchanted Object, which has no Alignment restrictions, requires no time for a new "attune".

True enough, but the principle is the same. If the cure for Dim Mak were as easy as passing around a magic ring, there's no threat from the "uncurable" Dim Mak. You lose a lot of the impact that something as serious as this SHOULD be. Remember, Dim Mak is the ONE thing that has kept the Tien Hsueh Touch Masters in power for so long... the threat of their incurable curse. Word of just putting on a ring being a cure is going to get their attention and they will stop at nothing to destroy it.

[Regularguy]

True enough, but the principle is the same. If the cure for Dim Mak were as easy as passing around a magic ring, there's no threat from the "uncurable" Dim Mak.

Well, keep in mind that N&SS sets out exactly what a hypothetical cure might look like: "A sacred scroll taken by the British from Peking", it says, or "a sacred relic protected by the Ainu people of Japan", or a "secret formula inscribed on a hidden rock". I don't see that "a magic ring, possibly sacred, possibly with a secret formula inscribed on the inside of the band" is all that different.

That said, we could two-step the complexity. Let's say my character's Enchanted Object doesn't pack a Healing Factor; it doesn't come with any Minor Super Abilities, just invisibility-at-will and the Major Super Ability of my choice. Throw in some useful skills and I figure that's a playable build, albeit one who can die from Dim Mak and can't save anyone else from it either.

Also, let's say you're playing an HU superhero who likewise can't actually cure anyone else: it's just that you have a Healing Factor -- maybe backing up Invulnerability in case someone hits you with Dim Mak (or Kaijustsu, or Open Hand Atemi, or whatever). And you've also got something else up your sleeve -- maybe Control Others, which is great for information-gathering purposes and gives you a nifty mental attack just in case you're facing someone you can't physically clobber. And since that Healing Factor makes you a natural for Chi Mastery, you've even swapped out various skills for a N&SS martial art, as per the rules on page 164. And I figure that's a playable build as well.

That's all straightforward enough if the Major Super Ability of my choice is Create Force Field or Divine Aura or whatever. In this case, though, it's Mimic, which means anyone who puts on the ring can duplicate your Healing Factor if and only if you're nearby. Is that far enough under the radar?

[JuliusCreed]

True enough, but the principle is the same. If the cure for Dim Mak were as easy as passing around a magic ring, there's no threat from the "uncurable" Dim Mak.

[quote="Regularguy][quote]Well, keep in mind that N&SS sets out exactly what a hypothetical cure might look like: "A sacred scroll taken by the British from Peking", it says, or "a sacred relic protected by the Ainu people of Japan", or a "secret formula inscribed on a hidden rock". I don't see that "a magic ring, possibly sacred, possibly with a secret formula inscribed on the inside of the band" is all that different.[/quote]

The key word here is "hypothetical". Anything in this, or any other, list of cures could be the cure, up to and including the magic ring idea. I'm just saying if it happens to be an enchanted ring that grants Healing Factor to whoever wears it, regardless of how much (or little) time it's worn, really just makes Dim Mak another one of those "Oh gee... another case of Dim Mak" scenarios. It'll get real boring real fast.

[quote]That said, we could two-step the complexity. Let's say my character's Enchanted Object doesn't pack a Healing Factor; it doesn't come with any Minor Super Abilities, just invisibility-at-will and the Major Super Ability of my choice. Throw in some useful skills and I figure that's a playable build, albeit one who can die from Dim Mak and can't save anyone else from it either.

Also, let's say you're playing an HU superhero who likewise can't actually cure anyone else: it's just that you have a Healing Factor -- maybe backing up Invulnerability in case someone hits you with Dim Mak (or Kaijustsu, or Open Hand Atemi, or whatever). And you've also got something else up your sleeve -- maybe Control Others, which is great for information-gathering purposes and gives you a nifty mental attack just in case you're facing someone you can't physically clobber. And since that Healing Factor makes you a natural for Chi Mastery, you've even swapped out various skills for a N&SS martial art, as per the rules on page 164. And I figure that's a playable build as well.[/quote]

Interesting how the two powers you actually mention Invulnerebility is vulnerable to, as well as Dim Mak, Though Open Hand is half damage as are the Shock and Death yells of Kaijutsu. (Stun and Force yells don't work). Beyond that it sounds workable though.

[quote]That's all straightforward enough if the Major Super Ability of my choice is Create Force Field or Divine Aura or whatever. In this case, though, it's Mimic, which means anyone who puts on the ring can duplicate your Healing Factor if and only if you're nearby. Is that far enough under the radar?[/quote]

Sure that works as far as I'm concerned. Just have the guy with Dim Mak wear the ring with Mimic, find someone with Healing Factor, and become his new best buddy for a bit. Or you could just put Healing Factor into the ring in the first place as per your original idea. I see no real difference in either scenario truth be told. I just see Dim Mak becoming the "not-so-dreaded" curse because of the ease of availability in cures.

[Nightmask]

I've looked and can't seem to find anyone pointing out that that Discorporate Zenjoriki explicitly notes that it cures everything including if you're infected with Dim Mak. You can't take anyone along but an infected PC can study it until he can manage a one-shot use of it to cure himself (or maybe even permanently gain the Zenjoriki depending on his Martial Art and what the GM will allow).

[The Beast]

I've looked and can't seem to find anyone pointing out that that Discorporate Zenjoriki explicitly notes that it cures everything including if you're infected with Dim Mak. You can't take anyone along but an infected PC can study it until he can manage a one-shot use of it to cure himself (or maybe even permanently gain the Zenjoriki depending on his Martial Art and what the GM will allow).

Where's that from?

[Nightmask]

I've looked and can't seem to find anyone pointing out that that Discorporate Zenjoriki explicitly notes that it cures everything including if you're infected with Dim Mak. You can't take anyone along but an infected PC can study it until he can manage a one-shot use of it to cure himself (or maybe even permanently gain the Zenjoriki depending on his Martial Art and what the GM will allow).

Where's that from?

Mystic China. Given it's the companion book to Ninjas and Superspies really odd no one listed it.