Outcast Station's defenses

[Kagashi]

In Mutants in Orbit, part of the defenses listed for Outcast Station are two mysterious robots. The book, just like most early Rifts books, leave it ambiguous as to what exactly these bots are other than they can be equivalents to powerful Rifts bots or even Destroids (presumably from Robotech).

So my question is, what would/do you use for these two unique, mysterious bots?

Me personally, I have been tinkering with the idea of using Angrar Robotics bots.

[taalismn]

Egads...demonic robots in space?!
The Minion War starts here, in Rifts Earth Orbit.

[glitterboy2098]

me? i'd probably toss a pair of Veritechs from either Robotech or macross II.. probably macross II. a flight of VF-2SS SAP would go a long way towards keeping the station safe.

of course, i tend to assume the station's reputation is largely propaganda, that it has a government, maintence crews, even police of a kind. its just like Port Royal and tortuga, the station's inhabitants aren't picky about who docks there and does business, as long as they follow the rules and pay their fee's (often 'in kind', giving parts, supplies, and such rather than currency)

[drewkitty ~..~]

Another option would build a bot via the HU robot/PA/android creation rules.

I do like the idea of using the Macross II VF's and/or destroids.

[taalismn]

Indeed. VFs or Destroids were my first thoughts upon reading that. But even a CCW Battleram would be a good choice.

[DhAkael]

Or heck; a CAF Bombard or 2 with LR Laser cannon attachments.

[Kagashi]

If I were going to go with VFs or Destroids, Protoculture is a big part of their operation and I dont see how the mutants of Outcast would be able to maintain them. However, if we wanted to stick with the transformable theme, the PW Kittani Transformable Robot-Fighter isnt a bad design, is unique, and makes more sense to have fallen in the hands of anybody in the orbital community.

I was tinkering with the idea of a non-Splynn Splugorth attempting to make a foothold on Rifts Earth via means of spacecraft rather than Rifts to overthrow Splynn anyway. Perhaps this is where the Robot-Fighters came from in the first place.

I was still thinking about the Angrar Robotics slant though. As Taalismn pointed out, it could open the door for the Minion War to take place. Ahriman and his Balrog minions could be slowly be using Outcast station to create a foothold in space. The two described in MiO could be the MKI suits described in Pantheons of the Megaverse, augmented with space flight capabilities given to the station in 101 PA. By 109 PA, some of the other models in Rifts Mercs would have made it to the station, say 30 or 40 of each.

[keir451]

If I were going to go with VFs or Destroids, Protoculture is a big part of their operation and I dont see how the mutants of Outcast would be able to maintain them.

What GB was referring to weren't Robotech VF's, they were MAcross II VF's which use nuclear power plants so those can be replaced and maintained. They can be converted to RIfts tech using the RT conversion rules from CB1.
I, personally, would go with VF-19's or VF-22's. They're extremely fast and maueverable and even rated for trans-atmospheric, so they could go "down the well" and come back up. Once you ditch the solid shell projectile weaponry in favor of lasers, particle beams and railguns they become even nastier.
Then again I might go with modified CS designs retrofitted wiht vernier thrusters or somehting. If I went that route I'd use a Hellraiser but ditch the special wepaons in favor of more standards weapons.

[glitterboy2098]

the difficulty of VF-19's and VF-22's is there aren't any canon stats for them, and the various conversions out on the net are kinda erratic in terms of balance and houserules.

i like the use of a Macross II or maybe phase world, because they have the kind of high performance that would amaze the denezins of MiO, and would go a long way to allowing outcast station to survive with the Arkhon threat. Macross II is actually a bit better logistically.. they use fusion, similar to the plasma drives of MiO, so they could probably get more fuel, and they use railguns and missiles.. railgun rounds could be resupplied via custom production hops, and rifts MiO missiles ought to be adaptable to the SAP gear's bays.
the phase world bots might have the same ammo benefits, but they use antimatter, which is probably not available to MiO denizens.

[keir451]

the difficulty of VF-19's and VF-22's is there aren't any canon stats for them, and the various conversions out on the net are kinda erratic in terms of balance and houserules.

i like the use of a Macross II or maybe phase world, because they have the kind of high performance that would amaze the denezins of MiO, and would go a long way to allowing outcast station to survive with the Arkhon threat. Macross II is actually a bit better logistically.. they use fusion, similar to the plasma drives of MiO, so they could probably get more fuel, and they use railguns and missiles.. railgun rounds could be resupplied via custom production hops, and rifts MiO missiles ought to be adaptable to the SAP gear's bays.
the phase world bots might have the same ammo benefits, but they use antimatter, which is probably not available to MiO denizens.

Yah, that's one of the problems w/ JN Macross. But I agree that the Macross II VF's would work well, IIRC the CB1 suggetted that you might have to swap out the launchers , but that could be waived by the GM. The SAP system gives them pretty decent armor and weaponry for combat including that particle beam gun that does as much damage as the GB's boom gun. I know of a site I use for original Amcross gear, but I won't violate the conversion rules(tho' many may know of it already).

[Tor]

Seeing as how Robotech is a merger of Fortress Macross and Cavalry Cross, I'm tempted to make those robots something from Century Orguss.

[Kagashi]

Using pre-existing mecha stats from either RT1, RT2, or Macross II is good because you already have left and right boundaries as to what the mecha is capable of and what they are supposed to do. I however have some pretty hardcore purists whom I have to please and if I use a mecha from another game, I have to prepare myself to explain where it would come from. Especially if one of the characters is from one of those dimensions.

I am digging the idea of the YF-19 YF-22 though. Its not published in any existing Palladium book and I would have some creative licensing as to what it can do.

One thing is for sure, its been 8 years in game since the last update to Space not counting Aftermath which basically just rewrote everything in MiO. The numbers and types of ships and power armors in each space station would have changed by now. Im beefing up each stations defenses dramatically, save for Freedom and CAN Republic which would still see some beefing up, just not as much as the other stations). Since the Arkhon invasion more than DOUBLED the population of Rifts Space and the fact that the orbital communities have seen two alien invasions in the past 30 years (in reality it was the same invasion, but not from the orbital point of view), Rifts Orbital Communities would have reevaluated its threats since 104 as coming not only from Earth, but from the stars as well. I see more of an emphasis on capitol war ships, space fighters, and power armors than they previously have listed.

The Mutant Geniuses of Outcast Station would be no different in this new arms race. Whatever mecha I give them, I see them attempting to create more of them as well as purchasing old style Glitter Boys from Freedom Station than the ONE that is listed in MiO.

[ShadowLogan]

In Mutants in Orbit, part of the defenses listed for Outcast Station are two mysterious robots. The book, just like most early Rifts books, leave it ambiguous as to what exactly these bots are other than they can be equivalents to powerful Rifts bots or even Destroids (presumably from Robotech).

So my question is, what would/do you use for these two unique, mysterious bots?

Me personally, I have been tinkering with the idea of using Angrar Robotics bots.

Never noticed that before about the defenses.

As for me, if it comes up I would likely use a space modified Japanese design or predecessor variant (created) of an existing Japanese design (Rifts WB8) since the station is a partially constructed Japanese station (at least per ATB part, which IINM still applies unless otherwise stated in the Rifts section). The 'bot will have to almost certainly be modified for space movement, but their core design would depend on what the 'bots where originally doing there (construction, security, research testing, etc). So a construction 'bot (likely role) would be the IR-2020 with flight pack (ala IR-2040) or IR-2015 (retrofitted underwater propulsion for space). Security could be just about any of them (the IR-2050 might be interesting in this role as it gives a 2 for 1 deal, but others might make interesting options).

There are two ways to handle the RT/M2 cross-over. Option #1 is to use it/them as an example of parallel development to avoid the issue of compatibility and fuel, this wouldn't even be limited to the human-sized platforms, since the Zentraedi could be used as the basis with more extensive modifications. This seems viable given that one of the NGR designs in WB7 looks a lot like a VF-1. Option #2 is to have them "rifted in", though here you run into the fuel issue and compatibility issue that will have to be addressed. I'd likely however use a retro-fitted Zentraedi Female Power Armor (additional armor, power plant replacement would be doable given the pilot cavity's excess space freed up by putting in a human sized crew and the payload mass) in this role.

Another option is to have the designs as captured/salvaged Kittani or Arkhon designs.

[keir451]

In Mutants in Orbit, part of the defenses listed for Outcast Station are two mysterious robots. The book, just like most early Rifts books, leave it ambiguous as to what exactly these bots are other than they can be equivalents to powerful Rifts bots or even Destroids (presumably from Robotech).

So my question is, what would/do you use for these two unique, mysterious bots?

Me personally, I have been tinkering with the idea of using Angrar Robotics bots.

Never noticed that before about the defenses.

As for me, if it comes up I would likely use a space modified Japanese design or predecessor variant (created) of an existing Japanese design (Rifts WB8) since the station is a partially constructed Japanese station (at least per ATB part, which IINM still applies unless otherwise stated in the Rifts section). The 'bot will have to almost certainly be modified for space movement, but their core design would depend on what the 'bots where originally doing there (construction, security, research testing, etc). So a construction 'bot (likely role) would be the IR-2020 with flight pack (ala IR-2040) or IR-2015 (retrofitted underwater propulsion for space). Security could be just about any of them (the IR-2050 might be interesting in this role as it gives a 2 for 1 deal, but others might make interesting options).

There are two ways to handle the RT/M2 cross-over. Option #1 is to use it/them as an example of parallel development to avoid the issue of compatibility and fuel, this wouldn't even be limited to the human-sized platforms, since the Zentraedi could be used as the basis with more extensive modifications. This seems viable given that one of the NGR designs in WB7 looks a lot like a VF-1. Option #2 is to have them "rifted in", though here you run into the fuel issue and compatibility issue that will have to be addressed. I'd likely however use a retro-fitted Zentraedi Female Power Armor (additional armor, power plant replacement would be doable given the pilot cavity's excess space freed up by putting in a human sized crew and the payload mass) in this role.

Another option is to have the designs as captured/salvaged Kittani or Arkhon designs.

I can see the fuel issue with regards to the RT gear but there shouldn't be any problem converting M2 gear as they use nuclear power plants as well. I lnow the conversion books originally said (for RT) that there would be differences in missles so the launchers would have to be swapped out (I don't agree, but hey, that's just me ).

[keir451]

Using pre-existing mecha stats from either RT1, RT2, or Macross II is good because you already have left and right boundaries as to what the mecha is capable of and what they are supposed to do. I however have some pretty hardcore purists whom I have to please and if I use a mecha from another game, I have to prepare myself to explain where it would come from. Especially if one of the characters is from one of those dimensions.

I am digging the idea of the YF-19 YF-22 though. Its not published in any existing Palladium book and I would have some creative licensing as to what it can do.

One thing is for sure, its been 8 years in game since the last update to Space not counting Aftermath which basically just rewrote everything in MiO. The numbers and types of ships and power armors in each space station would have changed by now. Im beefing up each stations defenses dramatically, save for Freedom and CAN Republic which would still see some beefing up, just not as much as the other stations). Since the Arkhon invasion more than DOUBLED the population of Rifts Space and the fact that the orbital communities have seen two alien invasions in the past 30 years (in reality it was the same invasion, but not from the orbital point of view), Rifts Orbital Communities would have reevaluated its threats since 104 as coming not only from Earth, but from the stars as well. I see more of an emphasis on capitol war ships, space fighters, and power armors than they previously have listed.

The Mutant Geniuses of Outcast Station would be no different in this new arms race. Whatever mecha I give them, I see them attempting to create more of them as well as purchasing old style Glitter Boys from Freedom Station than the ONE that is listed in MiO.

I, for one, agree that the orbital stations would be seriously trying to b eef up their defenses vs the Rkhon and other threats. I do wish we'd get an update on it tho'.

[kaid]

I always loved mutants in orbit I would love another update to the space around rifts earth.

[Kagashi]

I always loved mutants in orbit I would love another update to the space around rifts earth.

Agreed.

-Did the English continue to make Psi-Tech weapons like the Caliber X described in Rifts England?
-What are the stats on the German power armor, PBeam rifle, and rail guns?
-Outcast station is the only station that states "Magic is not generally known". (whereas every other station flat out says its not known at all...so what is known? Mystics? Temporal Magic? Space Magic?)
-What critters live in the Graveyard? Nexus Spiders? Star Slayer Demons?
-Does the Minion War affect Space like it did Phase World?
-Now that we know Naruni and Kittani have space ships...have they attempted to reach Earth via ship rather than just dimensional travel?
-How has the Arkhon population altered the dynamics of the orbital communities now that the population is over double than what was previously known?
-Now that we know what the NEMA was, why do the orbital communities refer to the tech as "Glitter Boys" when that was a terrestrial term after the dark ages? Has NEMA tech survived in some form on Freedom Station and the CAN Republic?
-What are some of the no kidding stats for ships produced by the orbital communities? How about Arkhon capitol and transport ships?
-Have Temporal Raiders found their way into Rifts Space? Ranthenors? (We know "Dimensional Raiders" are a problem, but thats it.)
-What are the new numbers of bots and ships after the Arkhon Invasion of 104 PA?

One of the most recent Rifters talked about some of this plus a new (unofficial) alien threat, but I would like to see some official words.

[taalismn]

Indeed...and perhaps some rules for creating some of the smaller independent stations(of Mir/ISS-size up to say, old Von Brain-wheel size). The ones hanging on to survival by a fingernail grip, dragoooned into service with one or the other of the major factions. The one also likely to be picked off by the odd supernatural predator in space or bizarre alien. Some of those orbiting can habitats are nasty surprises that one docks with with extreme caution.

[ShadowLogan]

I can see the fuel issue with regards to the RT gear but there shouldn't be any problem converting M2 gear as they use nuclear power plants as well. I lnow the conversion books originally said (for RT) that there would be differences in missles so the launchers would have to be swapped out (I don't agree, but hey, that's just me ).

I could have sworn the books mentioned that the M2 Nuclear hardware was Fusion grade instead of the simple and open "nuclear" (I know its that way in 1E RT). In any case Outcast station has no natural resources IIRC, so they have to trade/steal to replenish the mecha's fuel, what ever it turns out to be.

-Now that we know Naruni and Kittani have space ships...have they attempted to reach Earth via ship rather than just dimensional travel?

To travel to Earth via ship instead of dimensional travel would require it to be more cost effective, especially for the Naruni. With the Kittani, I imagine that the Splurgoth would have to okay any such mission. I can see them both doing scouting missions to see if there are any resources for them to use, though here the Naruni are likely to have a wider list than the Splurgoth.

The Splurgoth though likely don't see enough profit in the resource cost they would have to expend to take over the Orbitals, or they would have done it by now. The Naruni likely just can't get their salesman in the door (given the Orbital's response to alien incurrision).

Now that we know what the NEMA was, why do the orbital communities refer to the tech as "Glitter Boys" when that was a terrestrial term after the dark ages? Has NEMA tech survived in some form on Freedom Station and the CAN Republic?

Given the isolated regions that also use the term glitterboy on the surface (Japan especially, but also the New Navy IIRC), I don't see the issue in space.

A few explanations:
1. It comes down to being written before NEMA was defined, and can be seen as a "convience" thing for the reader instead of having multiple names for the same platform (or its variants)
2. "Glitter Boy" is an alternate name for the suit that pre-dates the dark ages (sort of like the A-10 Thunderbolt II and F-16 Fighting Falcon having Warthog and Viper names also respectively)
3. "Chrom. Guardsman" designation by NEMA is for that organization, and not the general usage name (ex. Boing's KC-46 is a modifed 767, IINM some nations redesignate purchased military aircraft, etc)

[keir451]

A couple of the station's descriptions seemed reminiscent of the Babylon 5 station. I'm sure it was just a coinikydink, but I found it amusing.

@ ShadowLogan; Hmmm, it could be. But whenever I see Kevin saying "nuclear" I assume fusion as that was what the Free Quebec books say the GB's are powered by. With fusion palnts all you need is hydrogen and there's plenty of hydrogen in space. if the power plant is damaged it may need to be replaced or repaired and that [i]would[i] take some bartering with other stations or *scavenging* (to be said in the 1990's TMNT movies Splinter's voice) for parts and supplies. IIRC the original RT VF's wouldn't need their power plants replaced either because they, too, were nuclear/fusion.

[Nightmask]

A couple of the station's descriptions seemed reminiscent of the Babylon 5 station. I'm sure it was just a coinikydink, but I found it amusing.

@ ShadowLogan; Hmmm, it could be. But whenever I see Kevin saying "nuclear" I assume fusion as that was what the Free Quebec books say the GB's are powered by. With fusion palnts all you need is hydrogen and there's plenty of hydrogen in space. if the power plant is damaged it may need to be replaced or repaired and that [i]would[i] take some bartering with other stations or *scavenging* (to be said in the 1990's TMNT movies Splinter's voice) for parts and supplies. IIRC the original RT VF's wouldn't need their power plants replaced either because they, too, were nuclear/fusion.

Where does it say that Glitter Boys are run on fusion? While I don't have all the books regarding Free Quebec or Glitter Boys I've not seen any of them that referred to Glitter Boys having fusion power cores, if they did you should see fusion power cores or power sources elsewhere yet all the nuclear power sources given in Rifts are shown to be fission not fusion.

[keir451]

A couple of the station's descriptions seemed reminiscent of the Babylon 5 station. I'm sure it was just a coinikydink, but I found it amusing.

@ ShadowLogan; Hmmm, it could be. But whenever I see Kevin saying "nuclear" I assume fusion as that was what the Free Quebec books say the GB's are powered by. With fusion plants all you need is hydrogen and there's plenty of hydrogen in space. if the power plant is damaged it may need to be replaced or repaired and that [i]would[i] take some bartering with other stations or *scavenging* (to be said in the 1990's TMNT movies Splinter's voice) for parts and supplies. IIRC the original RT VF's wouldn't need their power plants replaced either because they, too, were nuclear/fusion.

Where does it say that Glitter Boys are run on fusion? While I don't have all the books regarding Free Quebec or Glitter Boys I've not seen any of them that referred to Glitter Boys having fusion power cores, if they did you should see fusion power cores or power sources elsewhere yet all the nuclear power sources given in Rifts are shown to be fission not fusion.

Hmmm, I clearly recall a version of FQ that said the GB's power plant was a micro fusion palnt, but I can't find it currently, (I could be wrong tho') anyway the FQ book DOES say that the GBs use a "miniature nuclear" power source. Since the first days I picked up Rifts back in the 90's I always "read" (in my mind) that the term "nuclear" meant nuclear fusion as (to the best of my knowledge) nuclear fission would be impracticle due to the need to have a cooling system as well as scram rods and all the associated stuff. It also states that FQ had to purchase many of these "modular systems from Triax".
Addendum: Ok, I see where my mistake was, the ORIGINAL RT rpg states that the VT fighters use a fusion turbine. So I was most likely just carrying it over from that. I also was told by a friend that we CAN, indeed, produce a fission plant the size of beer can. He said it would be very weak by todays standards, but if we assume continued development and research into it for a another 70+ yrs then I guess it's possible to have mini-nuclear reactors capable of powering SAMAS's and the other tech items.

[kaid]

Hehe the reactors run on handwavium. About the most sensible thing they could be would be more like some of the nuclear batteries similar to what is on some deep space probes but highly advanced. Fission would likely be very antisocial to battle damage and the units seem to small for even the smallest plant one could think of. Fusion unless they are using some sort of cold fusion would also seem to big at least for power armor as you would need bunkerage for the fuel it is fusing.

Also they do talk about wrecked mechs causing radiation damage to the local area around them which tends to argue against a fusion reactor any radiation from those would tend to very short half lives and not very harmful varieties of radiation.

A nuke battery type generator seems to fit the bill for mechs. They can be made reasonably small even with current day tech and generate a constant amount of energy for their lifespan. They would not need a lot of infrastructure or bunkerage and could be made pretty heavily armored/sealed units. If they did get broken open though they would at least cause localized radiation poisioning issues because while they would not need much radioactive materials what stuff they do use is pretty nasty stuff.

[keir451]

Hehe the reactors run on handwavium. About the most sensible thing they could be would be more like some of the nuclear batteries similar to what is on some deep space probes but highly advanced. Fission would likely be very antisocial to battle damage and the units seem to small for even the smallest plant one could think of. Fusion unless they are using some sort of cold fusion would also seem to big at least for power armor as you would need bunkerage for the fuel it is fusing.

Also they do talk about wrecked mechs causing radiation damage to the local area around them which tends to argue against a fusion reactor any radiation from those would tend to very short half lives and not very harmful varieties of radiation.

A nuke battery type generator seems to fit the bill for mechs. They can be made reasonably small even with current day tech and generate a constant amount of energy for their lifespan. They would not need a lot of infrastructure or bunkerage and could be made pretty heavily armored/sealed units. If they did get broken open though they would at least cause localized radiation poisioning issues because while they would not need much radioactive materials what stuff they do use is pretty nasty stuff.

Well that works as well as any other theory. I can live with that except for this question: Where does the SAMAS store it's rocket fuel for propulsion?

[Greyaxe]

Hehe the reactors run on handwavium. About the most sensible thing they could be would be more like some of the nuclear batteries similar to what is on some deep space probes but highly advanced. Fission would likely be very antisocial to battle damage and the units seem to small for even the smallest plant one could think of. Fusion unless they are using some sort of cold fusion would also seem to big at least for power armor as you would need bunkerage for the fuel it is fusing.

Also they do talk about wrecked mechs causing radiation damage to the local area around them which tends to argue against a fusion reactor any radiation from those would tend to very short half lives and not very harmful varieties of radiation.

A nuke battery type generator seems to fit the bill for mechs. They can be made reasonably small even with current day tech and generate a constant amount of energy for their lifespan. They would not need a lot of infrastructure or bunkerage and could be made pretty heavily armored/sealed units. If they did get broken open though they would at least cause localized radiation poisioning issues because while they would not need much radioactive materials what stuff they do use is pretty nasty stuff.

Well that works as well as any other theory. I can live with that except for thisquestion: Where does the SAMAS store it's rocket fuel for propulsion?

All power armour uses electric engines/ fans for propulsion leveraging a nuclear power supply for energy.

[keir451]

Hehe the reactors run on handwavium. About the most sensible thing they could be would be more like some of the nuclear batteries similar to what is on some deep space probes but highly advanced. Fission would likely be very antisocial to battle damage and the units seem to small for even the smallest plant one could think of. Fusion unless they are using some sort of cold fusion would also seem to big at least for power armor as you would need bunkerage for the fuel it is fusing.

Also they do talk about wrecked mechs causing radiation damage to the local area around them which tends to argue against a fusion reactor any radiation from those would tend to very short half lives and not very harmful varieties of radiation.

A nuke battery type generator seems to fit the bill for mechs. They can be made reasonably small even with current day tech and generate a constant amount of energy for their lifespan. They would not need a lot of infrastructure or bunkerage and could be made pretty heavily armored/sealed units. If they did get broken open though they would at least cause localized radiation poisioning issues because while they would not need much radioactive materials what stuff they do use is pretty nasty stuff.

Well that works as well as any other theory. I can live with that except for thisquestion: Where does the SAMAS store it's rocket fuel for propulsion?

All power armour uses electric engines/ fans for propulsion leveraging a nuclear power supply for energy.

Except that the description states "the jet rockets get hot and need to cool aftera maximum of ten hours of flight when traveling at speeds above cruising." So it would seem that it's using jet fuel for propulsion. So again, Where does it store the fuel?

[Nightmask]

Hehe the reactors run on handwavium. About the most sensible thing they could be would be more like some of the nuclear batteries similar to what is on some deep space probes but highly advanced. Fission would likely be very antisocial to battle damage and the units seem to small for even the smallest plant one could think of. Fusion unless they are using some sort of cold fusion would also seem to big at least for power armor as you would need bunkerage for the fuel it is fusing.

Also they do talk about wrecked mechs causing radiation damage to the local area around them which tends to argue against a fusion reactor any radiation from those would tend to very short half lives and not very harmful varieties of radiation.

A nuke battery type generator seems to fit the bill for mechs. They can be made reasonably small even with current day tech and generate a constant amount of energy for their lifespan. They would not need a lot of infrastructure or bunkerage and could be made pretty heavily armored/sealed units. If they did get broken open though they would at least cause localized radiation poisioning issues because while they would not need much radioactive materials what stuff they do use is pretty nasty stuff.

Well that works as well as any other theory. I can live with that except for thisquestion: Where does the SAMAS store it's rocket fuel for propulsion?

All power armour uses electric engines/ fans for propulsion leveraging a nuclear power supply for energy.

Except that the description states "the jet rockets get hto and need to cool aftera maximum of ten hours of flight when traveling at speeds above cruising." So it would seem that it's using jet fuel for propulsion. So again, Where does it store the fuel?

No, they aren't using fuel they are electric turbines, they're just not rated to handle such long flights without eventual heat build up. Remember you're still running motors and motors generate heat and those motors have to be generating a lot of it in order to compress and exhaust the air fast enough to move something as heavy as a SAMAS or other power armor at the speeds they can move at. So after 10 hrs of flight you're getting outside the maximum amount of rated safe time to subject the turbines to those levels of heat and stress.

[ShadowLogan]

@ ShadowLogan; Hmmm, it could be. But whenever I see Kevin saying "nuclear" I assume fusion as that was what the Free Quebec books say the GB's are powered by. With fusion palnts all you need is hydrogen and there's plenty of hydrogen in space. if the power plant is damaged it may need to be replaced or repaired and that [i]would[i] take some bartering with other stations or *scavenging* (to be said in the 1990's TMNT movies Splinter's voice) for parts and supplies. IIRC the original RT VF's wouldn't need their power plants replaced either because they, too, were nuclear/fusion.

In 1E RT mecha that had nuclear energy supplies tended to make a distinction between Fission and Fusion, however in Rifts (and M2, though here one could reasonably extrapolate from 1E RT Macross Saga) they seem to drop that distinction in just what type of nuclear process is going on*. In 2E RT they indicate fusion, but they are also using an exotic form of hydrogen fuel (SLMH). And it is a misnomer to say fusion plants run simply on hydrogren, they require hydrogen isotopes, and some forms of hydrogen fusion also involve the element Helium-3.

I will also add that from a space flight perspective, if the RT/M2/Rifts mecha have to carry enough fusion fuel for their propulsion systems for the life span of the reactor you can quickly get into requiring obscene amounts of material to maintain full thrust for the duration. That is why I tend to take the endurance of the reactor (fusion) as the life of the reactor before needing a major overhaul and not the fuel supply itself. Fission/RTG type nuclear systems certainly carry enough fuel for decades of use, but they don't provide propellant which has to come separate.

*there are a few references to fusion systems in Rifts that I can think of (MiO Plasma Drive, MercOps generator), but they are the exception not the rule it seems.

Since the first days I picked up Rifts back in the 90's I always "read" (in my mind) that the term "nuclear" meant nuclear fusion as (to the best of my knowledge) nuclear fission would be impracticle due to the need to have a cooling system as well as scram rods and all the associated stuff. It also states that FQ had to purchase many of these "modular systems from Triax".

Nuclear to me always meant nuclear fission or decay (RTGs on space probes). If one can in the real world plan to put nuclear powered engines into an aircraft (and in the late 40s-50s/60s they did), they can fit them into a 'bot IMHO.

Except that the description states "the jet rockets get hto and need to cool aftera maximum of ten hours of flight when traveling at speeds above cruising." So it would seem that it's using jet fuel for propulsion. So again, Where does it store the fuel?

Doesn't require jet fuel in the traditional sense. The system could simply use the ambient air for the working fluid in several ways, the basic one would be to use fans (draw in and expel, with the fans powered by the electricity produced by the reactor), but something like lightcraft using lasers (or microwaves) to detonate air could also be used (again powered by the electricity produced by the reactor). overheating can still occur in either approach if the transfer medium (shaft, emitters, etc) generates more waste heat than can be managed (ex, if the CPU fan on your computer fails or is not seated properly the computer won't stay on for very long if at all).

[keir451]

@Nightmask; That, too, is possibility I'd considered. I agree that the 10 hours probably refers to the max safe time. I just went with the actual description which seemed to imply that some form of chemical propellant was used and due to the relative size of the SAMAS it seemed like that would be a problem.
@ Shadow Logan; Yeah I went back and looked a bit deeper, that's when I went and added that I was crossing references from memory. As for what "nuclear" meant, that's all our own opinions, to me it meant fusion, to someone else it means fission. So long as it "works " for us, it's not an issue.

The system could simply use the ambient air for the working fluid in several ways, the basic one would be to use fans (draw in and expel, with the fans powered by the electricity produced by the reactor)...

So the fans draw the air in, perhaps compressing it in the process, and then an electric spark ignites the "fuel" providing thrust. Fair'nough, I'd thought of that one myself, but as I stated above I wanted to focus on the statement of "jet rockets" and the seemingly implied need for a fuel source and the relative lack of available space for a fuel tank in the SAMAS's design.

[kaid]

Hehe the reactors run on handwavium. About the most sensible thing they could be would be more like some of the nuclear batteries similar to what is on some deep space probes but highly advanced. Fission would likely be very antisocial to battle damage and the units seem to small for even the smallest plant one could think of. Fusion unless they are using some sort of cold fusion would also seem to big at least for power armor as you would need bunkerage for the fuel it is fusing.

Also they do talk about wrecked mechs causing radiation damage to the local area around them which tends to argue against a fusion reactor any radiation from those would tend to very short half lives and not very harmful varieties of radiation.

A nuke battery type generator seems to fit the bill for mechs. They can be made reasonably small even with current day tech and generate a constant amount of energy for their lifespan. They would not need a lot of infrastructure or bunkerage and could be made pretty heavily armored/sealed units. If they did get broken open though they would at least cause localized radiation poisioning issues because while they would not need much radioactive materials what stuff they do use is pretty nasty stuff.

Well that works as well as any other theory. I can live with that except for this question: Where does the SAMAS store it's rocket fuel for propulsion?

Well in theory it may not need any rocket fuel. Small turbo jet engines powered by the nuke engine would be sufficient. small/light and if the engine was powerful enough to operate them pretty much infinite range if you let it cool down periodically so you don't melt the jets.

[glitterboy2098]

The system could simply use the ambient air for the working fluid in several ways, the basic one would be to use fans (draw in and expel, with the fans powered by the electricity produced by the reactor)...

So the fans draw the air in, perhaps compressing it in the process, and then an electric spark ignites the "fuel" providing thrust. Fair'nough, I'd thought of that one myself, but as I stated above I wanted to focus on the statement of "jet rockets" and the seemingly implied need for a fuel source and the relative lack of available space for a fuel tank in the SAMAS's design.

actually there would be no spark and no fuel. basically, it would be fans to pull in the air then spit it out the back. rather like a ducted fan, but more powerful. (probably would use a multiple 'fan' Axial compressor to compress the air and get it moving rapidly.. the compressed air moving fast is what gives thrust. we only use fuel because our fan technology isn't up to an electric jet engine that powerful, so we need the extra energy of the burning fuel to boost the thrust) they probably also dump waste heat from the nuclear powerplant into the compressed airstream for cooling purposes using an indirect cycle transfer.. if the reactor is powerful enough and thus has enough heat, it could be used the actually boost the thrust of the jet. which is likely how the CS jet fighter's work and why they can reach supersonic speeds.

[kaid]

One interesting note is there have been a few jet pack designs that utilize things like ducted fan engines or mini jet engines and the problem is not that the tech does not exist to make them or that they won't fly its that they can't pack enough fuel onto a man sized package to give a usable flight envelope. If you have a strong reliable power source you can do a lot of crazy stuff as long as you are not being forced to do it efficiently.

[Nightmask]

One interesting note is there have been a few jet pack designs that utilize things like ducted fan engines or mini jet engines and the problem is not that the tech does not exist to make them or that they won't fly its that they can't pack enough fuel onto a man sized package to give a usable flight envelope. If you have a strong reliable power source you can do a lot of crazy stuff as long as you are not being forced to do it efficiently.

Yes it's amazing how many problems you can solve simply by having enough power to not have to care about doing things efficiently. Just look how much having a ZPM helped out that one Wraith ship in the finale for Stargate: Atlantis, having stupid levels of power available meant the inefficiency of their bio-systems stopped being a problem.

[ShadowLogan]

@keir451
As glitterboy2098 said, the use of a fan(s) use doesn't require anything to be sparked. Basically it would be like a ducted propeller. "Electric" aircraft are out there, but they are all propeller driven (AFAIK) as opposed to ducted fan like.

Lightcraft is a whole different matter though.

[keir451]

@keir451
As glitterboy2098 said, the use of a fan(s) use doesn't require anything to be sparked. Basically it would be like a ducted propeller. "Electric" aircraft are out there, but they are all propeller driven (AFAIK) as opposed to ducted fan like.

Lightcraft is a whole different matter though.

Eh, 's OK. Like I said earlier I just mentally convert "nuclear' to "fusion" in my mind, at least for any of the larger vehicles. I also do that for any spacecraft in my games and I keep the idea that the Macross VFs, all the way up to Macross Plus and beyond, use fusion turbine engines. My Gm and I have a Rifts spcae setting where the CS , during their attempts to reach orbit, actually developed a space craft. It used a pre-existing frame and engines from a pre-Rifts megacorp, they just added the armor, etc. They then developed Space SAMAS and Space MkV APCs, so to get around the propulsion issue for SAMAS in space we just went with fusion plants and smaller plasma propulsion systems. The project ws then scrapped after they stopped attemting to get into space and the ship (fully completed) languished in the launching facility for the next several decades until the PCs (CS RPA Elites) launched it in an attempt to save it from a FoM raid on the base they were in. We call it "Hammond's Folly" (after Gen. Hammnod from SG1).

[Hotrod]

I prefer Erin Tarn's original interpretation of why orbit is closed. Huge clouds of tiny debris flying around at ludicrous speed make anything shred everything that comes up (which creates more debris). I think this is the first time I've expressed admiration for that NPC on these boards.

I just can't keep up my suspension of disbelief when I read MiO. Just as we can see the ISS with the naked eye (not to mention optics), the folks in Rifts would be able to see the orbital stations and satellites. They'd also be able to communicate with anyone up there. Even with the entire orbital community refusing to communicate with anyone on the ground (which makes no sense to me), any reasonably advanced Earth-based society would be able to listen in on their radio communications.

The Sci Fi show "Defiance" has the right idea (decent show, by the way). Everything in orbit gets smashed around the Coming of the Rifts. Nothing humanity can launch will make it through the debris fields.

[keir451]

I prefer Erin Tarn's original interpretation of why orbit is closed. Huge clouds of tiny debris flying around at ludicrous speed make anything shred everything that comes up (which creates more debris).

I think this is the first time I've expressed admiration for that woman on these boards.

I thought that was the official expalnation and that the orbital communities actively maintained the counter orbital debris ring.

[Hotrod]

You replied before I could finish my edit. The idea of having these unknown-on-Earth orbital communities defies the reality that it's too easy to see and talk to things in orbit from the ground.

[Nightmask]

I prefer Erin Tarn's original interpretation of why orbit is closed. Huge clouds of tiny debris flying around at ludicrous speed make anything shred everything that comes up (which creates more debris). I think this is the first time I've expressed admiration for that NPC on these boards.

I just can't keep up my suspension of disbelief when I read MiO. Just as we can see the ISS with the naked eye (not to mention optics), the folks in Rifts would be able to see the orbital stations and satellites. They'd also be able to communicate with anyone up there. Even with the entire orbital community refusing to communicate with anyone on the ground (which makes no sense to me), any reasonably advanced Earth-based society would be able to listen in on their radio communications.

Not necessarily, most radio traffic could or likely would be based on using directional antennas so that it wasn't even going towards Earth for anyone to have the ability to detect. Depending on the signal the rest could easily be blocked by the atmosphere for those signals that did go in the direction of the Earth (and of course you'd need someone listening at the right time to have a chance of catching the signal if it did make it to the surface). So just because you're advanced (like the CS) doesn't mean you're going to be able to detect or listen in on the space-based communications, and if they use basic encryption depending on the type you'd never be able to decrypt it to matter anyway.

Also if they ignore you and you don't have more than 'yeah I know they're up there and they're ignoring us' to go on why would you waste your time? After a point it's stupid to keep trying to establish communications with people who clearly won't talk to you and who so far as you now you can't even make any sort of physical contact with so can't gain anything from it.

[Kagashi]

I just can't keep up my suspension of disbelief when I read MiO. Just as we can see the ISS with the naked eye (not to mention optics), the folks in Rifts would be able to see the orbital stations and satellites. They'd also be able to communicate with anyone up there. Even with the entire orbital community refusing to communicate with anyone on the ground (which makes no sense to me), any reasonably advanced Earth-based society would be able to listen in on their radio communications.

Yeah, not sure about not being able to see the orbital stations from Earth...perhaps its because of the debris ring causes so much haze in the night sky that they are blocked out. Yet the sun, moon, and stars and clearly visible. We could always go the magic route for an explanation. Perhaps Earth really is in some sort of pocket dimension, powerful enough to mask visible light, but not enough to truly rift physical objects if you fly through it. Might explain why we see heavenly bodies, but not the man made stuff...cuase the sky we would be looking at isnt the sky that is really above Rifts Earth.

As for the comms portion, I agree. I do not see why advanced tech nations like NGR, CS, Japan and Scandinavia wouldnt be able to collect some radio and communications chatter from the space stations. We know for sure that Archie 7 collects radio transmissions from Archie 3 and other Earth bound sources, but does not respond, so radio waves are making it from Earth to the stations. I dont see why the reverse couldnt happen to some small degree. Now, what is collected would most likely be rubbish since the stations are likely to encrypt their transmissions, especially since they are likely to go to war with each other. So unless these Earth bound high tech nations have that exact encryption, they will likely just hear squelches and beeps.

Now that we know what the NEMA was, why do the orbital communities refer to the tech as "Glitter Boys" when that was a terrestrial term after the dark ages? Has NEMA tech survived in some form on Freedom Station and the CAN Republic?

Given the isolated regions that also use the term glitterboy on the surface (Japan especially, but also the New Navy IIRC), I don't see the issue in space.

A few explanations:
1. It comes down to being written before NEMA was defined, and can be seen as a "convience" thing for the reader instead of having multiple names for the same platform (or its variants)
2. "Glitter Boy" is an alternate name for the suit that pre-dates the dark ages (sort of like the A-10 Thunderbolt II and F-16 Fighting Falcon having Warthog and Viper names also respectively)
3. "Chrom. Guardsman" designation by NEMA is for that organization, and not the general usage name (ex. Boing's KC-46 is a modifed 767, IINM some nations redesignate purchased military aircraft, etc)

Number one is the obvious real reason, but I want an in game reason that makes sense. I dont think number two holds water because after the eruption of the Rifts, Chromium Gaurdsmen became legendary and heroic. According to Chaos Earth, most survivors knew what they were (at least in North America where they were operating). Number three is plausible.

But I think the in game reason should be that over time, the term "Glitter Boy" replaced the official designation Chromium Guardsmen as Chaos Earth eventual became a post apocalyptic world and fell into the dark period before the PA calender (and organized society) was established. In that 300 year period, things were skewed and simplified. A lot of data was lost. And the people of Rifts Earth began calling the suits (secretly planted by Archie all over North America), "Glitter Boys". Though electronic surveillance, the orbital stations monitored these changes, taking note of the new terminology and the term spread throughout Freedom Station and the rest of the stations as well.

Perhaps Japan also monitored radio chatter bouncing off the atmo beyond line of sight and also came to the same conclusion. The New Navy has been in contact with North America the whole time, they would have received words of the terms use over the 300 year period as well.

Thats what I would do to make it make sense.

[ShadowLogan]

and I keep the idea that the Macross VFs, all the way up to Macross Plus and beyond, use fusion turbine engines.

And you wouldn't be wrong in this aspect because that is precisely what the creator(s) of that license tell us is being used, which Palladium is following.

Rifts and other non-licensed PB lines generally avoid noting what type of nuclear it is, unless it IS fusion in my experience. And that noting its fusion to me indicates the other nuclear sources are likely fission/decay based. You can even get that impression based on the CS Strategic Nuclear Weapons writeup IIRC in SB4.

o to get around the propulsion issue for SAMAS in space we just went with fusion plants and smaller plasma propulsion systems.

A generic plasma propulsion system though doesn't require fusion plant to function, you can run it off fission or even solar. And with a fission system one can turn it into a rocket propulsion system easily enough by having it heat a propellant that is expelled, there is no reason to work in a completely new power plant model.

Huge clouds of tiny debris flying around at ludicrous speed make anything shred everything that comes up (which creates more debris).

This doesn't really work. Eventually the lower orbitals would become cleared out without new material coming from somewhere else if one waited long enough. The atmosphere does expand and contract, and even 200miles up there is some atmospheric friction that reduces the orbital energy causing the object to fall to a lower orbit. Every manned spacestation to date has had to have periodic reboots in its orbit, and that atmospheric friction is what contributed to the loss of Skylab in the 70s. The Vostok Space Capsules actually had orbits that could decay within days that would act as a backup decent engine if the primary did not work. In other words YOU NEED someone at minimum to maintain the debris ring for this 300 year period.

The biggest issue with MiO is the factions up there, they should all have died off ages ago unless those facilities already had some means of self-sufficiency in place before tGC. That self-sufficiency would have to include water recycling, air recycling, food production (likely looking at largely vegetarian diet), and manufacturing.

Just as we can see the ISS with the naked eye (not to mention optics), the folks in Rifts would be able to see the orbital stations and satellites.

The ISS is only 200miles up, the Orbitals are out by the Lagrange points (Lunar), where are much farther out (3 are equal distance to the Moon, 1 is farther, and 1 is closer). Granted the Orbital stations are much larger than the ISS, they are also much farther out so they could be harder to spot with the naked eye (telescope is another matter).

[keir451]

there is no reason to work in a completely new power plant model

See this concept just drives me nuts. Too many people assume that you'd not need to create a new power cource, etc. This flies in the face of modern technological evolution. We're always creating new things and just because one thing works currently doesn't mean that someone somewhere won't find a better or different way to do it later on down the road. Especially when you're stuck in space for the better part of 300 yrs.

Eventually the lower orbitals would become cleared out without new material coming from somewhere else if one waited long enough. The atmosphere does expand and contract, and even 200miles up there is some atmospheric friction that reduces the orbital energy causing the object to fall to a lower orbit.

Now this I absolutely agree with, though even today we have lots of space debirs just "hanging around" , not going anywhere. If not maintained the lower edge of the debris field would eventualy clear out, but the orbital colonies are stated as actively maintianing the debris field so it doesn't clear out.

The biggest issue with MiO is the factions up there, they should all have died off ages ago unless those facilities already had some means of self-sufficiency in place before tGC. That self-sufficiency would have to include water recycling, air recycling, food production (likely looking at largely vegetarian diet), and manufacturing.

Given the level of technology present prior to the cataclysm I'd say that the orbital colonies would've been self sufficient, or near enough that with a little hard work and some bartering between themselves that they could get all the requsite materials. It was stated in MiO that they do ice asteroid and metal asteroid mining. They've probably got dedicated people to go out and do the extremely dangerous job of bringing in ice asteroids for water and other rocks for metals and soil.
For the orbital colonies the Moon would be an absolute prize with all that free mass just sitting there unused. Even though Lunar gravity is very low and there's not much of an atmosphere to speak of you could do underground colony structures and farms. So if the CAN colony traded food and processed materials to the other colonies they could easily become the richest out of all the orbital colonies. We've got to remember that MiO was printed before Lonestar and Chaos Earth so now we've got to go back through it and re-apply what these books tell us to the setting. For instance, the TexAm facility produced the Dog Boys even before the cataclysm, but that line of research was banned, but they still were heavy into cloning and currently it produces cloned beef for the CS, so who's to say that some of that cloning tech didn't make into orbit before the cataclysm?

[kaid]

I prefer Erin Tarn's original interpretation of why orbit is closed. Huge clouds of tiny debris flying around at ludicrous speed make anything shred everything that comes up (which creates more debris).

I think this is the first time I've expressed admiration for that woman on these boards.

I thought that was the official expalnation and that the orbital communities actively maintained the counter orbital debris ring.

Yes it is they all maintain the counter orbital debris ring and only sic the kill sats and other defenses if something managed to get past the debris. That said anybody with a good telescope should be able to see at least some of the orbital stations and see there is activity up there and I would guess the major powers know there is some force/forces active up there.

[keir451]

I prefer Erin Tarn's original interpretation of why orbit is closed. Huge clouds of tiny debris flying around at ludicrous speed make anything shred everything that comes up (which creates more debris).

I think this is the first time I've expressed admiration for that woman on these boards.

I thought that was the official expalnation and that the orbital communities actively maintained the counter orbital debris ring.

Yes it is they all maintain the counter orbital debris ring and only sic the kill sats and other defenses if something managed to get past the debris. That said anybody with a good telescope should be able to see at least some of the orbital stations and see there is activity up there and I would guess the major powers know there is some force/forces active up there.

Agreed.

[Kagashi]

The biggest issue with MiO is the factions up there, they should all have died off ages ago unless those facilities already had some means of self-sufficiency in place before tGC. That self-sufficiency would have to include water recycling, air recycling, food production (likely looking at largely vegetarian diet), and manufacturing.

It is quite clear in MiO that this is indeed the case, not only with the major stations, but independents also have self sustaining ships that help support the colonies. Water is mined from asteroids and the Mars moons and there are type 2 recycling plants on page 82. The descriptions of the larger stations make you assume these recycling plants are all over the main stations. Now...certain diets like Insectivores...that was not specifically addressed, but one has to assume if an insectivore is in space, he has a ready supply of food available. Perhaps there are space cricket farms? Either that or picking that as a trait would not be allowed because after the past 300 years, if you relied on insects as your diet...you simply died a few weeks after tGC as did you genetic code.

I prefer Erin Tarn's original interpretation of why orbit is closed. Huge clouds of tiny debris flying around at ludicrous speed make anything shred everything that comes up (which creates more debris).

I think this is the first time I've expressed admiration for that woman on these boards.

I thought that was the official expalnation and that the orbital communities actively maintained the counter orbital debris ring.

Yes it is they all maintain the counter orbital debris ring and only sic the kill sats and other defenses if something managed to get past the debris. That said anybody with a good telescope should be able to see at least some of the orbital stations and see there is activity up there and I would guess the major powers know there is some force/forces active up there.

Agreed.

All the more reason to subscribe to the idea that the sky an Earth bound person looks up at is not the sky that is actually above the planet. Chalk it up to dimensional anomalies. Perhaps, the sky the Earth bound folks are looking at is a sky from thousands of years ago. However, one can pass through the mystical illusion and make it to the physical space that orbits Rifts Earth.

[Nightmask]

I just can't keep up my suspension of disbelief when I read MiO. Just as we can see the ISS with the naked eye (not to mention optics), the folks in Rifts would be able to see the orbital stations and satellites. They'd also be able to communicate with anyone up there. Even with the entire orbital community refusing to communicate with anyone on the ground (which makes no sense to me), any reasonably advanced Earth-based society would be able to listen in on their radio communications.

Yeah, not sure about not being able to see the orbital stations from Earth...perhaps its because of the debris ring causes so much haze in the night sky that they are blocked out. Yet the sun, moon, and stars and clearly visible. We could always go the magic route for an explanation. Perhaps Earth really is in some sort of pocket dimension, powerful enough to mask visible light, but not enough to truly rift physical objects if you fly through it. Might explain why we see heavenly bodies, but not the man made stuff...cuase the sky we would be looking at isnt the sky that is really above Rifts Earth.

As for the comms portion, I agree. I do not see why advanced tech nations like NGR, CS, Japan and Scandinavia wouldnt be able to collect some radio and communications chatter from the space stations. We know for sure that Archie 7 collects radio transmissions from Archie 3 and other Earth bound sources, but does not respond, so radio waves are making it from Earth to the stations. I dont see why the reverse couldnt happen to some small degree. Now, what is collected would most likely be rubbish since the stations are likely to encrypt their transmissions, especially since they are likely to go to war with each other. So unless these Earth bound high tech nations have that exact encryption, they will likely just hear squelches and beeps.

Clarification there, ARCHIE-7 is receiving that ARCHIE-3 radio transmissions because 3 is using one of 7's satellite's as a relay station, a satellite that's meant to be an observation satellite. ARCHIE-7 isn't sitting on the moon receiving signals straight from Earth as you imply but from a far closer satellite for that purpose. Other stations might be doing so as well (and probably are, but only the Moon is known to be intensely aggressive about monitoring and containing the Earth, the rest have varying degrees of committment).

Depending on how paranoid they were initially (and they were pretty paranoid) the stations may all rely primarily on laser communications rather than radio which further reduces the likelihood of anyone detecting any communications going on. Which again really isn't going to matter much anyway since they're stuck on Earth, can't get there from here, and have to deal with what's on the ground. While there likely are people who know the stations exist even if it isn't explicitly mentioned in the books it's no real issue because no one can do anything about it and the problems on the surface keep them from trying anything like building space-ships and taking off into space.

[Vrykolas2k]

A pair of UN Spacy Valkyrie is what I had assigned to that place.

[keir451]

Soooo, I think we need to be like Vrykolas2k and get things back on track. Any other ideas as to what kinds of special robots Outcast station could be using? Maybe one or two of the new Naruni Wave 2 'bots or power armors?

[Kagashi]

Soooo, I think we need to be like Vrykolas2k and get things back on track. Any other ideas as to what kinds of special robots Outcast station could be using? Maybe one or two of the new Naruni Wave 2 'bots or power armors?

Naruni would love to make a buck no matter who is buying, nor if it happens to be IOUs rather than universal credits. We know they have the capability to achieve space flight and have FTL capabilities as of Fleets of the Three Galaxies. I do not see why it is not plausible a small team of Naruni and a few repo bots couldnt be operating somewhere in the solar system and selling independents and Outcast station bots, power armors, and fighter craft. That would certianly change the whole dynamic if Outcast Station acquired a Wrath of God Destroyer.

[keir451]

Soooo, I think we need to be like Vrykolas2k and get things back on track. Any other ideas as to what kinds of special robots Outcast station could be using? Maybe one or two of the new Naruni Wave 2 'bots or power armors?

Naruni would love to make a buck no matter who is buying, nor if it happens to be IOUs rather than universal credits. We know they have the capability to achieve space flight and have FTL capabilities as of Fleets of the Three Galaxies. I do not see why it is not plausible a small team of Naruni and a few repo bots couldnt be operating somewhere in the solar system and selling independents and Outcast station bots, power armors, and fighter craft. That would certianly change the whole dynamic if Outcast Station acquired a Wrath of God Destroyer.

Fortunately I don't think Outcast station could afford one.