"Rifts v.2" What would you like to see changed?

[PhellaOne]

I just read a topic that brought up the subject of a "Rifts v.2" and I asked myself "what would I change?" I came up with a few things, but now I ask the Forums: "Regardless of whether it needs it or not, and/or whether you would buy it or not, what changes would you like to see in an updated Rifts Rulebook?"

[flatline]

Get rid of the mega-damage system.
Replace the level system with a points based system.
Replace the magic system with something that isn't just a list of arbitrary powers.
Replace the psionics system with something that isn't just a list of arbtrary powers.

--flatline

[The Galactus Kid]

There are already topics in the All Things Palladium Books from discussing this. Please post in those threads.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Nothing what works for my style might not work with your styled it ends like some other games in their 5th or6th editions

[drewkitty ~..~]

RUE is Rifts.v2

Get rid of the mega-damage system.
Replace the level system with a points based system.
Replace the magic system with something that isn't just a list of arbitrary powers.
Replace the psionics system with something that isn't just a list of arbtrary powers.

--flatline

Sounds like you want to play GURPS.

[flatline]

RUE is Rifts.v2

Get rid of the mega-damage system.
Replace the level system with a points based system.
Replace the magic system with something that isn't just a list of arbitrary powers.
Replace the psionics system with something that isn't just a list of arbtrary powers.

--flatline

Sounds like you want to play GURPS.

Indeed. I would absolutely love it if the Rifts Earth setting were converted to GURPS even though I find GURPS to be a bit crunchy when dealing with high technology. Magic, Psionics, and Skills systems are top notch. Utterly brilliant.

Even better than GURPS would be FUDGE. FUDGE has the most elegant resolution mechanism of any system I've seen, but leaves magic, psionics, and skills largely undefined, so it would take a lot of work to get up and running.

--flatline

[Tiree]

RUE is Rifts.v2

Get rid of the mega-damage system.
Replace the level system with a points based system.
Replace the magic system with something that isn't just a list of arbitrary powers.
Replace the psionics system with something that isn't just a list of arbtrary powers.

--flatline

Sounds like you want to play GURPS.

RUE is Rifts v1.5
But I would also like a 2.0 version.
I differ on Flatline's approach
* Streamline Character Creation
* * Clean up the character creation process.
* * Reduce the number of Skills, Combine if necessary
* * Have Skills listed identically (how they provide bonuses, requirements, and what skills they provide bonuses to - right now, you have to hunt and find)
* * List bonuses in identical spots for the OCC's
* Create a Mook System (IE Make PC's special)
* * Not all bad guys should be identical to PC's Especially Mage's and Psionics.
* Clean up the Combat System
* * Right now the combat system is a mess of rules. RUE helps fix it, but it still doesn't quite work.
* * Ranged Combat: Combat should be seamless with active attacks and defensive actions. Modifiers should already built in to any bonus prior to rolling the dice.

Now - these are just the problems I see. How to fix said problem is up to interpretation. I have my thoughts of what I would like to see. Partially alter how damage is done (amazingly enough I do like MDC). I like Active Defensive's, and Attacks per Melee. But right now I have a character who has an ungodly PP (28), 6th Level, and I only get around a +6 to strike on an aimed shot!

[PhellaOne]

RUE is Rifts v1.5
But I would also like a 2.0 version.
I differ on Flatline's approach
* Streamline Character Creation
* * Clean up the character creation process.
* * Reduce the number of Skills, Combine if necessary
* * Have Skills listed identically (how they provide bonuses, requirements, and what skills they provide bonuses to - right now, you have to hunt and find)
* * List bonuses in identical spots for the OCC's
* Create a Mook System (IE Make PC's special)
* * Not all bad guys should be identical to PC's Especially Mage's and Psionics.
* Clean up the Combat System
* * Right now the combat system is a mess of rules. RUE helps fix it, but it still doesn't quite work.
* * Ranged Combat: Combat should be seamless with active attacks and defensive actions. Modifiers should already built in to any bonus prior to rolling the dice.

Now - these are just the problems I see. How to fix said problem is up to interpretation. I have my thoughts of what I would like to see. Partially alter how damage is done (amazingly enough I do like MDC). I like Active Defensive's, and Attacks per Melee. But right now I have a character who has an ungodly PP (28), 6th Level, and I only get around a +6 to strike on an aimed shot!

Nice. Good points. Some I hadn't considered.

[MikelAmroni]

I have to agree with Tiree for the most part. Part of what I want is a unified resolution mechanic. I don't really care what it is, as long as there is one. Skills and combat should be similarly handled in terms of simple resolution. The reason there are "complicated" rules for perception is because they didn't want to simplify the mechanics and go to only a d20 or only d100. The game gains nothing by doing this. A simple and standard mechanic is all you need. Or even an "official optional rule" for doing something like this. Personally I'd go for a d100+modifier rule versus a floating difficulty number. A dodge would be the same - get a higher modified roll and you dodge. Just don't repeat ICE's mistake of making those same mechanics tedious. Anything you do with D20 is going to be tainted at this point (thank you WotC ). The other option is to go to a measure of success system. Personally I think the roll+modifier is easier. That said, you could do the same with pretty much any dice combination. 1d10,2d10, 3d6, 1d12, whatever.

Also, there should be a built in option for handling social interaction. Sure role-playing trumps dice rolling, but sometimes you have a guy who can deliver things well out of character playing the most socially awkward character. The reverse is also true. PC to NPC interaction should include the ability to have skill versus skill to aid in convincing NPCs what must be done or should not be done. There are a ton of people who know how to talk to people and get results who don't have high MA and PB attributes, and that shouldn't be the only official way to convince NPCs.

M.D.C. should be a type of A.R., not a damage mechanic. Currently if you don't roll above the AR for natural AR you don't do damage. My suggestion is that if you don't have a MD weapon, you don't do damage to a critter with MD AR. You do double (or triple, or perhaps ten times as much) damage to anything without MD AR with a MD Weapon. M.D. weapons represent a head and shoulders improvement, but you don't have to worry about how your less advanced settings interacting with your hyper advanced settings.

Also, ranges of weapons should be looked at, and affecting things at certain ranges needs to be addressed. It can be a complex point-blank/short range/medium range/long range mechanic, or something much simpler involving only a short and long range (or something in between).

But the biggest thing I want to see in any revision? CONSISTENCY!!!!! I don't care what the rules are as long as they actually work within themselves well and are internally consistent.

[Killer Cyborg]

* Create a Mook System (IE Make PC's special)

I either agree or absolutely hate the idea, depending on how you mean that.
Care to elaborate?

[Lenwen]

"Rifts v.2" What would you like to see changed?

Answer - Make the Palladium Megaversal system .. TRULY .. 1 system 1 rule book for ALL games ..

1 Magic system for ALL .. games ..

As it stands right now the so called "Claim" of Palladium's to have 1 megaversal system is so far from the truth .. its honestly a slap in the face to the fans to straight up lie to us like that ..

[Killer Cyborg]

I just read a topic that brought up the subject of a "Rifts v.2" and I asked myself "what would I change?" I came up with a few things, but now I ask the Forums: "Regardless of whether it needs it or not, and/or whether you would buy it or not, what changes would you like to see in an updated Rifts Rulebook?"

Welcome to 2005

Should Palladium Books revamp the whole system?

Why not? They're practically there already...

I don't expect them to make all the changes that I would, but it would be nice if they would just revise the core book to include all the many, many, many, many changes to the game that they have made over the years.
And clean up some mistakes, and word everything clearer, and use examples for everything.

What would you change?

A LOT. Too much to list here.

Off the top of my head...

1. Drop the damage for nearly everything. Power creep has gotten out of hand. I'd reset the power levels for everything to be more in line with the stuff in the main book unless it had a good reason for being better (made by aliens, etc.)

2. More SDC armor, weapons, animals, and monsters. One of the reasons for power creep is that people want to feel powerful, but that's absurd considering how powerful even a Wilderness Scout with basic gear is. Rifts needs much more low-powered stuff, if only to provide a measuring stick for how powerful the PCs are. I'd also toss in more OCCs that are SDC with no initial MD capabilities. Hedge Mages, Commoners, Farmers, Mechanics, etc. Players probably wouldn't want to play these classes much, but that's fine; they'd be the measuring stick for the standard NPC on Rifts Earth.

3. Elaborate a LOT on the effects of MDC and Mega-damage.

4. Revise the rules for attributes. First of all, I'd completely ditch the entire Supernatural/Robotic/Insect/Extraordinary Strength crap and stick to one category. If you want to inflict megadamage, you need a REALLY high strength score. Second, I'd have penalties for low attributes. There is no reason why a character with an IQ of 3 should be as good at math as a character with an IQ of 15. Which brings me to the third change; I'd start the attribute bonuses at 14 and the penalties at 8.
Finally, some skills would get bonuses from attributes other than IQ.

5. Expand on the rules regarding SDC. Bullets, knives, and other sources of lethal damage should go straight to HP and bypass SDC. Since this would likely start a bit outcry, I'd allow some sort of save when you take damage of this sort; if you make the save, then the damage comes off your SDC instead of HP.
Also, I'd take a page from AD&D's book and put in a note that HP and SDC represent not only life force and toughness, but also exertion and luck.

6. Vehicle mounted weapons would either do more damage than small-arms, or they would be able to fire bursts/sprays.
Or both.
Also, vehicles would generally have a LOT more MDC.

7. Diagrams for every vehicle showing how to enter and exit it and where the weapons are.

8. Psionics would be subject to the same boost that magic is when you are near a ley line or nexus, and the psychic could suck ISP off the ley line in the same manner that mages suck PPE.

9. Non-environmental armor would have an optional AR listed.

10. I'd fix the burst/spray rules.

11. I'd explain the different Rates of Fire.

12. Every weapon would list the WP needed to use it.

13. Modern Weapons would get PP bonuses to strike. The base number needed to hit a target with a ranged weapon would be 10. More for moving targets.

14. I'd also have a chart showing all combat modifiers for conditiong (fog, target size, etc, etc.)

15. I would change things from being nuclear powered to being run off of cold fusion (or some other power source that people wouldn't pick to death).

16. I would list rules for radiation poisoning in case anybody was exposed to radiation.

17. I would update the missile damages to make actual sense.

18. Anybody in body armor who is hit by MD impact weapons like railgun rounds would take SDC damage from the impact, and there would be a significant chance of knockdown

19. I would fix the spell casting rules, and I would de-munchkinize most of the spells from FoM.

20. Spells and psychic powers would be able to be pumped up with more PPE. The damage for Call Lightning would be 1d6 MD per level per 15 PPE, for example. I'd also have rules for bursts/sprays (or their equivilant) with spells and psionics. (and, for that matter, for melee)

21. I would come up with some sort of decent grappling rules.

22. I would come up with rules for skill contests and attribute contests.

23. I would come up with multi-classing rules.

24. I would distinguish between RCC and races. Also between RCCs and PCCs. I would also come up with specific rules for races who wish to take an OCC instead of their normal RCC.

25. I would change the description of Time Slip to make sense.

26. I would upgrade everything to include the two attacks for living.

27. I would scrap the ROF for bows and other certain weapons and base everything off of melee attacks.

28. I would write the entire book from scratch, with no cut and pasting. Then I would spellcheck and edit the hell out of it.

29. I would reset Rifts Earth back to the way it was in the first few books, with Atlantis as the height of magical and technological power on Rifts Earth (with the exception of the Naruni and a few other alien powers scattered around). Books that don't fit in with the view presented in these books (like Japan and New West) would be redesignated as Dimension Books. That way the cool things in them could exist without infringing upon the coolness of having an open frontier of unexplored, hostile wilderness cover most of Rifts Earth.

30. The CS would have the best human made gear on the planet. Not necessarily in every area... Wilk's can still rule lasers, the NGR can have their areas of expertise, etc.... but the CS would overall be the best.

31. I would reset the timeline back to 101 PA. I would release every world book as set in that time period. I would release periodic Timeline Books that would update what was going on everywhere. This would make it much easier to set games in specific times. Many Sourcebooks would be set in a specific time period (like the Mechanoids, for example).

32. I would explain how the C-12 works.

33. I would have rules for how long a character can stay in armor before suffering penalties, and I would have penalties for sleeping in armor.

34. Rune Weapons would once again be the most powerful magic items on the planet. If Technowizardy ever surpassed Rune Magic, then I would make an extraordinarily big deal about it.

35. I would have a heck of a lot more information on rifts.

36. I would have detailed rules on TW Device creation.

37. I would never, anywhere in the book, have the phrase "If you don't like the rules, change them" or the phrase "all rules are optional."
Anybody who doesn't already know this about every game doesn't deserve to know it.

38. I would post the new book in PDA format online. This would help keep the old fans who were ticked off at such a radical revision, and it would help interest new customers. If they get the main book for free electronically and they like it, then they will likely buy a hardcopy of the book later and they would most likely buy plenty of worldbooks and sourcebooks.

39. I would include rules for using lead minis.

40. Psychics would get a Psi-Strength bonus based on their level and their ME.

41. Spell duration and range would be increased to match the boost in power that magic gets on Rifts Earth.

42. I would rule that only Crazies who bought cheap MOM implants actually have large knobs sticking out of their heads.

43. I would design some basic Magic Armor that looked like the standard Linewalker outfit from the art. Ditto with Techno-Wizard flight jackets.

44. I would have a map of every ley line in North America. Every worldbook would have a map of all the ley lines in that region.

45. I would allow anybody to learn the WP Paired Firearms skill if they spent enough skill points on it.

46. I would list penalties for using your off hand.

47. Every skill would explain the circumstances in which you might need to roll a skill check.

48. The insanity tables would be updated to fit Rifts Earth better.

49. I would describe the basic life that goes on in Chi-Town and other CS cities, as well as the average life that goes on in a normal wilderness town.

50. Explosives (including missiles) would damage everything in their blast area. So if your character gets caught in a blast, each section of your armor would take damage as would any weapon you have drawn. I would also include a method where large targets take more damage from explosives and burst/sprays than small targets do.


That's all that springs to mind for now.

Edit:
51. Make a new GM's Screen or two that has updated charts and tables on it to consolidate the rules into one easy place.
(as per Scooter the Outlaw's suggestion)

Since I originally wrote that post:
#36 has been taken care of, more or less. The TW Creation rules could use improvement, expansion, though.
#46 has been more or less taken care of.

The rest stands.

[Killer Cyborg]

I'd change nothing. I like Rifts because it's Rifts not because it's something else. If I wanted it to be a different game I'd play a different game.

It already IS a different game.

[Lenwen]

I'd change nothing. I like Rifts because it's Rifts not because it's something else. If I wanted it to be a different game I'd play a different game.

It already IS a different game.

And there in lies the folly of the game ..

[The Beast]

...46. I would list penalties for using your off hand...

...#46 has been more or less taken care of.

The rest stands.

Where is this found at?

[Killer Cyborg]

...46. I would list penalties for using your off hand...

...#46 has been more or less taken care of.

The rest stands.

Where is this found at?

Which?

[Tiree]

* Create a Mook System (IE Make PC's special)

I either agree or absolutely hate the idea, depending on how you mean that.
Care to elaborate?

I have several different idea's on how to do this. My favorite is to alter the damage system of the game, and in doing so provide less for Mooks. But in doing the change it would make players not wearing armor tough SOB compared to normals/mooks.
Otherwise you can create a new alternate set of classes for mooks, ie pregen stats.

[Killer Cyborg]

* Create a Mook System (IE Make PC's special)

I either agree or absolutely hate the idea, depending on how you mean that.
Care to elaborate?

I have several different idea's on how to do this. My favorite is to alter the damage system of the game, and in doing so provide less for Mooks. But in doing the change it would make players not wearing armor tough SOB compared to normals/mooks.
Otherwise you can create a new alternate set of classes for mooks, ie pregen stats.

I just use NPC OCCs and low-powered gear.
A Townie in Plastic Man or Class 4 Hard Armor is effectively a Mook against most PCs.

[Tiree]

I just use NPC OCCs and low-powered gear.

My thoughts are mainly to help create the feel of Robotech. You have the backup fighters blowing up all around in one or two shots. The bad guy's take a hit and go down. But the players and named NPC's hang around and are really tough SOB's.

I feel that this same concept can be used really well in Rifts, and I think it should be utilized.

[The Beast]

...46. I would list penalties for using your off hand...

...#46 has been more or less taken care of.

The rest stands.

Where is this found at?

Which?

Uh... #46.

[Killer Cyborg]

...46. I would list penalties for using your off hand...

...#46 has been more or less taken care of.

The rest stands.

Where is this found at?

Which?

Uh... #46.

lol

Yeah, that would make sense.
Sorry about that.

It's not truly addressed, but they do kind of address it.

RUE 327, under the WP Paired Weapons skill:
WP Paired Weapons is designed for melee weapons like knifes, swords, clubs, etc., not guns. When shooting two guns at once there is a penalty of -2 to strike with the regular hand, and -6 to strike with the off-hand.

From there, I can extrapolate that there's a -2 penalty for trying to use two guns simultaneously, because that's what the main hand gets. This would leave a -4 penalty for the off-hand, which would have to represent the difficulty of using the off-hand.
Of course, it doesn't necessarily cover melee weapons, and they may have assumed a different penalty for simultaneous shooting for the off-hand than they did for the primary, even aside from the standard penalty.
As in, they might be assuming a -3 penalty for using the off-hand in general, and a -3 penalty on top of that when trying to fire two weapons at once.
So it's still something that could use a lot of clarification, but I figured I'd give them some points for it.

[Killer Cyborg]

I just use NPC OCCs and low-powered gear.

My thoughts are mainly to help create the feel of Robotech. You have the backup fighters blowing up all around in one or two shots. The bad guy's take a hit and go down. But the players and named NPC's hang around and are really tough SOB's.

I feel that this same concept can be used really well in Rifts, and I think it should be utilized.

I think I'm more against you than with you on this one.

[Hystrix]

"Rifts v.2" What would you like to see changed?

Answer - Make the Palladium Megaversal system .. TRULY .. 1 system 1 rule book for ALL games ..

1 Magic system for ALL .. games ..

As it stands right now the so called "Claim" of Palladium's to have 1 megaversal system is so far from the truth .. its honestly a slap in the face to the fans to straight up lie to us like that ..

See. I like this. There may be a problem with having to redo books we already own (which is scary). However, RUE, Robotech the Shadow Chronicles RPG, Nightbane, BTS, After the Bomb, Chaos Earth, Dead Reign, Slicers, ALL have 90% shared skills. Only a few are setting specific.

A main book that covers rules, skills, character creation (with a few examples of character class for different games/genre), combat rules, ranged combat, etc. In one book. Have the setting specific info in the world/ sourcebooks of the specific games. There was never any reason to copy and paste character creation rules (or skills) in 15 different books.

Plus can you imagine if RUE was ALL source and setting info instead of an extra 100 pages of rules we already have?

I think that and a universal Magic book (like BoM, but for EVERY setting).

[keir451]

1) Streamline the rules & Character creation. (Including Perception)
2) Eliminate the excess experience tables and drop down to ONE for the entire game.
3) Hold the Free-Lance writers to the original standards of the game. I respect and understand the desire to shape Rifts according to our own visions, but sometimes it feels as though no one is reviewing the original books. And one persons vision is not always the same as anothers.
4) Give us a decent NPC generating system.
5) Leave the damages alone, tech advancement happens wether we like it or not, especially during war time.

5. Expand on the rules regarding SDC. Bullets, knives, and other sources of lethal damage should go straight to HP and bypass SDC. Since this would likely start a bit outcry, I'd allow some sort of save when you take damage of this sort; if you make the save, then the damage comes off your SDC instead of HP.
Also, I'd take a page from AD&D's book and put in a note that HP and SDC represent not only life force and toughness, but also exertion and luck.

6. Vehicle mounted weapons would either do more damage than small-arms, or they would be able to fire bursts/sprays.
Or both.
Also, vehicles would generally have a LOT more MDC.

7. Diagrams for every vehicle showing how to enter and exit it and where the weapons are.

[Witchcraft]

I love the system and wouldn't change much but if I had the opportunity to do so I would really streamline the skills. I love the World of Darkness skill / attribute combination idea. I realize it wouldn't quite work with a percentile system but to streamline the skills a bit so instead of cryptozoology and astrophysics and biology / marine biology / organic chemistry...et al. ad infinitum ad nauseum...you would have "Science." LOL! Seems oversimplified doesn't it?

I would also like to see a simplification of combat. Maybe not to the same degree as the skills but -- I hit you (roll). No you don't! (roll) Yes I did. Hehe! I would rather the emphasis be on the storytelling -- not the game mechanics. Combat would be much kewler if it resolved quickly but with opportunity for extended RP and cinematic action sequences built into the STORYTELLING. Like give bonus XP for descriptions. The dice are only there to add an element of randomness -- not test your human abacus. Ranged combat and burst rules and shooting wild and aimed / called shots and multipliers...bleh. Dumb it down...like for folks who are much more casual

[rem1093]

"Rifts v.2" What would you like to see changed?

Answer - Make the Palladium Megaversal system .. TRULY .. 1 system 1 rule book for ALL games ..

1 Magic system for ALL .. games ..

As it stands right now the so called "Claim" of Palladium's to have 1 megaversal system is so far from the truth .. its honestly a slap in the face to the fans to straight up lie to us like that ..

See. I like this. There may be a problem with having to redo books we already own (which is scary). However, RUE, Robotech the Shadow Chronicles RPG, Nightbane, BTS, After the Bomb, Chaos Earth, Dead Reign, Slicers, ALL have 90% shared skills. Only a few are setting specific.

A main book that covers rules, skills, character creation (with a few examples of character class for different games/genre), combat rules, ranged combat, etc. In one book. Have the setting specific info in the world/ sourcebooks of the specific games. There was never any reason to copy and paste character creation rules (or skills) in 15 different books.

Plus can you imagine if RUE was ALL source and setting info instead of an extra 100 pages of rules we already have?

I think that and a universal Magic book (like BoM, but for EVERY setting).

The problem I have with this, why should I have to buy a game I don't wont to play, to play a game i do want to play. For example I have a friend who love Robotech but not Rifts (he's not big on the Supernatural), so why should he have to buy a Rifts main book to play only Robotech?

...46. I would list penalties for using your off hand...

...#46 has been more or less taken care of.

The rest stands.

Where is this found at?

Which?

Uh... #46.

lol

Yeah, that would make sense.
Sorry about that.

It's not truly addressed, but they do kind of address it.

RUE 327, under the WP Paired Weapons skill:
WP Paired Weapons is designed for melee weapons like knifes, swords, clubs, etc., not guns. When shooting two guns at once there is a penalty of -2 to strike with the regular hand, and -6 to strike with the off-hand.

From there, I can extrapolate that there's a -2 penalty for trying to use two guns simultaneously, because that's what the main hand gets. This would leave a -4 penalty for the off-hand, which would have to represent the difficulty of using the off-hand.
Of course, it doesn't necessarily cover melee weapons, and they may have assumed a different penalty for simultaneous shooting for the off-hand than they did for the primary, even aside from the standard penalty.
As in, they might be assuming a -3 penalty for using the off-hand in general, and a -3 penalty on top of that when trying to fire two weapons at once.
So it's still something that could use a lot of clarification, but I figured I'd give them some points for it.

How does this affect the paired weapons with the Sharpshooting skill. And wouldn't it break the Weapon Master OCC, all the New West OCC's?

What I would like to see it an update to the older OCCs from the world books. They don't fit with the updates or rules in RUE, or the power creep in the newer books.

[Hystrix]

"Rifts v.2" What would you like to see changed?

Answer - Make the Palladium Megaversal system .. TRULY .. 1 system 1 rule book for ALL games ..

1 Magic system for ALL .. games ..

As it stands right now the so called "Claim" of Palladium's to have 1 megaversal system is so far from the truth .. its honestly a slap in the face to the fans to straight up lie to us like that ..

See. I like this. There may be a problem with having to redo books we already own (which is scary). However, RUE, Robotech the Shadow Chronicles RPG, Nightbane, BTS, After the Bomb, Chaos Earth, Dead Reign, Slicers, ALL have 90% shared skills. Only a few are setting specific.

A main book that covers rules, skills, character creation (with a few examples of character class for different games/genre), combat rules, ranged combat, etc. In one book. Have the setting specific info in the world/ sourcebooks of the specific games. There was never any reason to copy and paste character creation rules (or skills) in 15 different books.

Plus can you imagine if RUE was ALL source and setting info instead of an extra 100 pages of rules we already have?

I think that and a universal Magic book (like BoM, but for EVERY setting).

The problem I have with this, why should I have to buy a game I don't wont to play, to play a game i do want to play. For example I have a friend who love Robotech but not Rifts (he's not big on the Supernatural), so why should he have to buy a Rifts main book to play only Robotech?

Because it would be a main book for ALL games, not just Rifts. The advantage would be for people who do own more than one PB game (which is most of us).

[flatline]

A small change to combat that would be a huge improvement would be to roll active defenses before the attack roll and then increase the required to-hit number based on how successful the active defense would be. A good dodge roll would even make unknown attacks less likely to succeed, but they would not be impacted as much (maybe only a half or a third of the modifier would be applied).

The whole idea that evasive actions only affect one attack is beyond stupid.

--flatline

[zaccheus]

What we should do is instead of making Rifts v.2, we should make a war game version with a bad ass combat system and balanced magic/psionics system for th new game, and then retro fit that to a new, more consistant rule set for rifts v.2, that way the new combat rules will be play tested in a format more suited for those types of rules. Plus, if a really good combat/magic system is developed, it should be easy to hammer out the rules for skills in such a way that is consistant with the combat system; that way combat, magic/psionics, and skills don't all have their own comletely different rule sets; plus instead of fantasizing about a second edition, we'd be making a war game that we know PB is at least toying with, and then we can discuss 2nd ed, because it really seems like for the time being 2nd ed is a pipe dream at best.

[Colt47]

What we should do is instead of making Rifts v.2, we should make a war game version with a bad ass combat system and balanced magic/psionics system for th new game, and then retro fit that to a new, more consistant rule set for rifts v.2, that way the new combat rules will be play tested in a format more suited for those types of rules. Plus, if a really good combat/magic system is developed, it should be easy to hammer out the rules for skills in such a way that is consistant with the combat system; that way combat, magic/psionics, and skills don't all have their own comletely different rule sets; plus instead of fantasizing about a second edition, we'd be making a war game that we know PB is at least toying with, and then we can discuss 2nd ed, because it really seems like for the time being 2nd ed is a pipe dream at best.

This actually isn't a bad idea as it would address issues with how to even out movement on a standard grid as well as allow closer scrutiny of the magic and psionics system.

[SAMASzero]

Well, given my history with Rifts, my list may be somewhat different than most, and will likely miss what many people consider glaring problems:

#1: Magic

This one's a bit tricky, due to my ideas on Magic which, ironically were kinda inspired by reading these books for 15 years or so.

Magic needs to be a little more fluid. I always saw Magic as being kinda psychosomatic. It works the way it does because the practitioners collectively believe/understand it to be that way. This, to me, helps explain why in many other universes, magic-users often have "specialties": They tend to be good at certain type of magic, or the magic they use tends to act in certain ways. Also, why certain magic spells effect things in ways that the laws of physics say they shouldn't.

One idea I had was to make magic spells a kind of template rather than set in stone. This template can be altered either to fit the preferences of the individual mage or the needs of the situation at hand. What this would mean is that, for the same P.P.E. expenditure, a mage can alter the parameters of a spell. For example, for a Fireball spell, you might want to sacrifice some of the range for greater damage (or an Area of Effect explosion) or vice versa. In addition, you can choose to spend more P.P.E. on the spell to add those additional effects without having to sacrifice the other.

Additionally, I would also like to see something I call Spell Mastery. Basically, the more a mage studies or uses a spell, the better they get at casting it. Casting may start at the usuall level of two spells per melee, but as you get better, you can focus and shape the energy more efficiently, and eventually get to the point where you can essentially do the "incantation" mentally, with only the final trigger needing to be spoken. Going back to the classic Fireball example, a mage who masters the spell can get to the point where they can cast it three times per melee (or cast that spell twice and then another spell), and by the time they're eighth or ninth level, they can cast it for a single melee action.

I give as an example, the anime series The Slayers (nearly every season is currently available for free on YouTube). Here's heroine Lina Inverse casting a fireball spell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItSFIpjOF-I

But many times in the series, she's also cast the spell without the lengthy incantation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh-MRrl41RY


If you think this makes mages too powerful (to which I would normally say "So?", but...), there can be some caveats attached. Quick-Casting may take a little more P.P.E. to do, and/or is normally at a lesser strength than a fully-incanted spell (at least until they get their mastery up further). Alternately there may be a chance of failure when they try to rush it like that, the effects of which would depend on the type of spell (and maybe a percentile roll)

I'm thinking this could be done on an individual spell basis, by level, or even both. The latter can also be a way to mitigate the effects of a mage PC getting a spell that could be too powerful. "Sure, you can learn Annihilate at Level 1! But good luck casting it without it blowing up in your face... literally!"

#2: Races

I've grown a little tired of the whole "Puny Earthlings" schtick: The all-too common practice of making alien and D-Bee races better than Humans in every way. Too many races seem to use Base Human stats as a jumping-off point, rather than the average. I'd like to see more races that actually take a hit to their stats or abilities somewhere when compared to Humans.

[Jedrious]

The one change I'd like to see? People no longer using every update discussion to try and browbeat us into converting to their system...

[Wooly]

A revision of the MDC system. Change the damage ratio to 1 MD = 10 SDC or run it as a pure SDC system with MD as a special AR. This would make MD weapons special again but not make SDC weapons useless against MD creatures/armor/etc.

I'd like to see SDC weapons from the golden age that make sense. I have no doubt the M16 and AK will be around in 2098. But they sure as hell won't be the primary arms of any nations military.

Better representations of future tech that just didn't exist in 1990. The laughable laptop computer illustrated by Kevin Long in sourcebook 1 comes to mind.

Restore the gritty, harsh, post apocalyptic feel of the early Rifts books. More Road Warrior and less Star Wars.

[Wooly]

I would keep the MDC system, but with some changes.
SDC small arms fire can damage MDC body armor. ( not the 100 to one but still)
Its just makes sense, No small arms fire wont event scratch a tank (assault rifles on down), but body armor that you ware? hell yes.

Can we tone down the psionics a bit?

An assault rifle can't hurt a tanks armor but it can damage/destroy cameras, periscopes, sensors, antennas, cargo strapped to the outside (fuel cans), and any crewmen who stick their heads out to see what is going on after said cameras/periscopes are destroyed.

[Killer Cyborg]

A small change to combat that would be a huge improvement would be to roll active defenses before the attack roll and then increase the required to-hit number based on how successful the active defense would be. A good dodge roll would even make unknown attacks less likely to succeed, but they would not be impacted as much (maybe only a half or a third of the modifier would be applied).

IIRC, they did things that way in N&S.

The whole idea that evasive actions only affect one attack is beyond stupid.
--flatline

RUE 361
Shooting at a Moving Target: -1 to strike someone running (under 20 mph) -1 to strike for each additional 50 mph of the speed the target is traveling, and an additional -1 to strike if the target is taking evasive action (zig-zag, leaping behind cover, etc.).

[Colt47]

Hardness values are probably a better way to go than MDC given the smorgasbord of different directions a GM and player have to deal with, weapon damage should probably be increased, and AR should be used. The thought process is pretty similar to what Stephen Furlani came up with on his blog. The key difference between his idea and mine is that I'd like to remove the whole possibility of having players getting vaporized for picking an SDC race over an MDC one.

[Tiree]

I like Mega-Damage just the way it is. Never had a problem with it.

There are some issues with it, some have been cleared up though. Like when a MD laser blast goes through an SDC target.

Or my favorite is missile rules and hit locations. So a missile hits a target and it has 15 foot radius, does all the other hit locations of a Mecha get reduced by half?

MDC Location issues: Why do some mecha have upper and lower limbs listed, while others just have limbs?

There are a lot of issues that could be corrected, and even new editions don't correct it (case in point - look at Robotech)

[MikelAmroni]

My basic idea (the idea of a MDC Armor Rating) was that you could use the old stats (or perhaps include a GMG style update to a SDC style value) and include a single or even multiple MDC AR types. If you went with multiple then it'd be one for man-portable, one for Squad based weapons, mecha, and vehicle mounted, and one for the really big stuff (Base defense weapons, super vehicles and super mecha, space ships, etc). x2, x5 and x10 (and possibly x20 for spaceships) would be the simple and easy damage conversion. A Wilk's laser pistol has more or as much punch than a 9mm, but less than a .50 call BMG. A C-12 has better punch than a 7.62mm, but not as good as the main gun on a M1A1 tank. The Boom Gun is super deadly, but comparable in damage potential to the 16 inch guns of a WW2 battleship. A WW2 battalion rifted forward would go through a LOT more ammo (and men due to the lack of protection) than a small squad of Rifts Mercs, but could take down the same kinds of enemies.

And I'll note that this idea doesn't invalidate anything, just requires a bit of conversion, something easily enough done on the fly with a one or two page conversion document

[glitterboy2098]

I just use NPC OCCs and low-powered gear.

My thoughts are mainly to help create the feel of Robotech. You have the backup fighters blowing up all around in one or two shots. The bad guy's take a hit and go down. But the players and named NPC's hang around and are really tough SOB's.

I feel that this same concept can be used really well in Rifts, and I think it should be utilized.

easy fix. GM runs all the combat right? so the GM just doesn't track specific damage for designated 'mooks', and just lets them die with one or two hits.

this kind of thing doesn't need official rules, just common sense.

[Marcus]

I just use NPC OCCs and low-powered gear.

My thoughts are mainly to help create the feel of Robotech. You have the backup fighters blowing up all around in one or two shots. The bad guy's take a hit and go down. But the players and named NPC's hang around and are really tough SOB's.

I feel that this same concept can be used really well in Rifts, and I think it should be utilized.

easy fix. GM runs all the combat right? so the GM just doesn't track specific damage for designated 'mooks', and just lets them die with one or two hits.

this kind of thing doesn't need official rules, just common sense.

You have 8k posts on a gaming board and still try it with common sense?

[gaaahhhh]

1 - Put character creation in the front of the book.
2 - Streamline and clean up character creation. Put in the optional quick character creation and M.O.S. rules (like the ones in Robotech).
3 - Streamline skills, and either make Perception a skill or an attribute. Add rules for making attribute checks.
4 - Personally I would like to see Magic and Psionics balanced a little bit with technology, but that's a personal preference.
5 - Simplify combat rules and put all the modifiers in one place. Do the same with Saving throws.

Those are a few of the things I would like to see changed.

[cornholioprime]

I'd like Rune Weapons and Armor to be the end-all and be-all of Magic Artifacts once again, please, by whatever means necessary.

I think that I'd trade in my own Rune Weapon, if I ever came across one that "only" had the Eight Properties Of Rune Weapons or whatever, for enough Gold/Credits/Precious Gems to pay for safe passage to/from the Palladium World, find an Enchanter, spend the money he demands to get a few choice enchantments placed on a weapon of my own (for our non-Palladium Books readers, that can also potentially include Indestructibility for Weapons and Regeneration for Armor), and come out on top.

Probably with money left over to spare.

These days, many/most Rune Weapons SUCK when compared to a low of what's out there, even some TW devices, and usually a lot of those non-Rune weapons; powers can be a lot more useful, to my eyes, than the standard set of Rune Weapon Capabilities.

[Tiree]

easy fix. GM runs all the combat right? so the GM just doesn't track specific damage for designated 'mooks', and just lets them die with one or two hits.

this kind of thing doesn't need official rules, just common sense.

Oh - you can do a lot of different things as a GM. I personally don't want to do a lot of handwavium to allow for what I want. A simple of changing of what SDC can do, and apply a MDC armor reduction can do quite a bit more.

I have been playing for years. And well before the GI Joe rule, if you did more MDC to the Body Armor more than likely the PC/NPC was dead. It was nice, it was simple. And it falls back to the D&D feel of "Hit Points" that's all there were.

Palladium came up with a concept of Hit Points and Structural Damage Capacity (SDC) for a reason. To make the PC's a bit more 'Heroic' and fun. But in an MDC environment, there is no need for SDC. Why? Because the damage value is so far greater than SDC or HP (which it should), it makes it meaningless.

So let's make SDC a Stat again worth having! What does it reflect again, light cuts, bruises, and endurance of a Character. Well, RPG combat is 'Generic' in Palladium Rules (I know there are games where they calculate damage potential for ankles and fingers!). Let's use SDC to help those guy's in Body Armor. But a PC with 50 or even 100 SDC on top of the 100 MDC body armor is quite hefty. So drop the MDC value's in half, leave the Damage values the same. And apply the Damage to SDC first, then MDC second.

Now as a PC you have this natural regenerative shield around the player. Damage to Body Armor will be less, and thus cost less to the player.

Also - this allows for those low powered Rifts campaigns get dirty again. You can have a player with no body armor, and still take on CS Grunts. Players don't have to be suited up all the time, get dysentery, sleep in their armor, etc... now they are a bit more survivable.

When I talk about a Rifts: Dark Ages game - this is what I want. Something where equipment is rare. Combat is deadly, and PC's are the hero's. Where towns are a minimum of 3 to 5 days travel apart. Big cities are even farther. Where MDC is rare and powerful. And people could go into a town with MDC weapons and take over. Looting of old cities, and recovering lost artifacts. Causing mayhem and disrupting the plans of the CS from their over reaching genocidal idea's.

But maybe that's my view on how Rifts should be - and I'm cool with that.

[Killer Cyborg]

When I talk about a Rifts: Dark Ages game - this is what I want. Something where equipment is rare. Combat is deadly, and PC's are the hero's. Where towns are a minimum of 3 to 5 days travel apart. Big cities are even farther. Where MDC is rare and powerful. And people could go into a town with MDC weapons and take over. Looting of old cities, and recovering lost artifacts. Causing mayhem and disrupting the plans of the CS from their over reaching genocidal idea's.

But maybe that's my view on how Rifts should be - and I'm cool with that.

I thought that's how Rifts actually IS.
Except for the bit about towns being so close together.

[Akashic Soldier]

I'd like Rune Weapons and Armor to be the end-all and be-all of Magic Artifacts once again, please, by whatever means necessary.

I think that I'd trade in my own Rune Weapon, if I ever came across one that "only" had the Eight Properties Of Rune Weapons or whatever, for enough Gold/Credits/Precious Gems to pay for safe passage to/from the Palladium World, find an Enchanter, spend the money he demands to get a few choice enchantments placed on a weapon of my own (for our non-Palladium Books readers, that can also potentially include Indestructibility for Weapons and Regeneration for Armor), and come out on top.

Probably with money left over to spare.

These days, many/most Rune Weapons SUCK when compared to a low of what's out there, even some TW devices, and usually a lot of those non-Rune weapons; powers can be a lot more useful, to my eyes, than the standard set of Rune Weapon Capabilities.

*makes a buzzer noise*

Not legal ones. Rune Weapons are... well... you read the weapons in Atlantis right?

When I talk about a Rifts: Dark Ages game - this is what I want. Something where equipment is rare. Combat is deadly, and PC's are the hero's. Where towns are a minimum of 3 to 5 days travel apart. Big cities are even farther. Where MDC is rare and powerful. And people could go into a town with MDC weapons and take over. Looting of old cities, and recovering lost artifacts. Causing mayhem and disrupting the plans of the CS from their over reaching genocidal idea's.

But maybe that's my view on how Rifts should be - and I'm cool with that.

I thought that's how Rifts actually IS.
Except for the bit about towns being so close together.

KC is right on this one. That IS how Rifts is. I say this a lot but people need to read the R:GMG about the availability of M.D. weapons and armor. With the exception of D-Bee communities (which are somewhat rare in North America--I shouldnt have to explain why) its unlikely that a lot of normal people have M.D. Its just TOO expensive. Remember, if you are earning GOOD money you are getting 40-90 credits a week. If you have a crap job or business is slow the average person is making between 20-60 credits a week. How much is the CHEAPEST laser riffle? Like 2,000 credits? Thats like you or me saving up for a car, then there is ammo. Not to mention that they are normally illegal and most people cannot even buy them without a license or the FIND CONTRABAND skill.

[flatline]

Get rid of the mega-damage system.
Replace the level system with a points based system.
Replace the magic system with something that isn't just a list of arbitrary powers.
Replace the psionics system with something that isn't just a list of arbtrary powers.

--flatline

lol,. Give up and play Gurps 4th

I would pay good money for a book that had the rifts setting converted to GURPS. And wormwood. Actually, give me wormwood first!

--flatline

[Tiree]

When I talk about a Rifts: Dark Ages game - this is what I want. Something where equipment is rare. Combat is deadly, and PC's are the hero's. Where towns are a minimum of 3 to 5 days travel apart. Big cities are even farther. Where MDC is rare and powerful. And people could go into a town with MDC weapons and take over. Looting of old cities, and recovering lost artifacts. Causing mayhem and disrupting the plans of the CS from their over reaching genocidal idea's.

But maybe that's my view on how Rifts should be - and I'm cool with that.

I thought that's how Rifts actually IS.
Except for the bit about towns being so close together.

You know - that's how I see the world. But have you seen Rifts? Seriously? It's almost "Phase World" on an untamed planet!

Everyone seems to have some sort of MD protection and weapon. It boggles the mind, when you look back at the old RMB.

[SAMASzero]

When I talk about a Rifts: Dark Ages game - this is what I want. Something where equipment is rare. Combat is deadly, and PC's are the hero's. Where towns are a minimum of 3 to 5 days travel apart. Big cities are even farther. Where MDC is rare and powerful. And people could go into a town with MDC weapons and take over. Looting of old cities, and recovering lost artifacts. Causing mayhem and disrupting the plans of the CS from their over reaching genocidal idea's.

But maybe that's my view on how Rifts should be - and I'm cool with that.

I thought that's how Rifts actually IS.
Except for the bit about towns being so close together.

You know - that's how I see the world. But have you seen Rifts? Seriously? It's almost "Phase World" on an untamed planet!

Everyone seems to have some sort of MD protection and weapon. It boggles the mind, when you look back at the old RMB.

It's a matter of perspective (and you lack scale). Just because something is present or even available doesn't mean it's common or attainable. Even the RMB pointed this out. Something as simple as a bunch of guys in body armor and carrying laser rifles is a big problem for most villages and small towns if they don't have Magic to even the odds.

And yes, there's a number of emerging countries and city-states out there than can have their own armies, but collectively, their total population is close to the present population of the United States (and remember they're scattered all over the planet).

[Tiree]

It's a matter of perspective (and you lack scale). Just because something is present or even available doesn't mean it's common or attainable. Even the RMB pointed this out. Something as simple as a bunch of guys in body armor and carrying laser rifles is a big problem for most villages and small towns if they don't have Magic to even the odds.

And yes, there's a number of emerging countries and city-states out there than can have their own armies, but collectively, their total population is close to the present population of the United States (and remember they're scattered all over the planet).

I understand everything is about perspective, and some things can look differently to different people. But I stand by my assertion that Rifts has powercreeped in such a way that is unrecognizable by the old RMB standards.

With that said, Good or Bad, yes a GM has final say on what is and is not available within their game. Even then, based on subsequent books that MD weapons and armor have been littered everywhere. It may not be Environmental, but it is pretty much everywhere. So those small villages and towns, all they need to do is look in their backyard and they can find something.

[Zamion138]

id like to see more sdc stuff and make MD and MDC mush more rare, seeing some one in plastic man armor should mean you dont want to shoot at that guy. I know anyone can make md weapons rare in there game but id like to see more npc's and cannon game stuff that makes md weapons and mdc armor hard to get and rare not just a little blurb here and there thats only a few senteces per book at the most.