God-Level Spell Creation (GM oriented)

[Display-Name-Alpha]

So I am running a game with some friends IRL, only 4 of us in the party but it has evolved into a relatively high-power game through creativity. They had one instance where they had the option of slaying a dragon for its horde or freeing it for reward. They chose to free it, and in the dragons horde, I had several Soul Crystals (stolen souls of various powerful species and magic monsters). They chose to have a bonding ritual performed with their choice of 5 different magical creatures, so we got a Half-Phoenixi Human Blade Mage, a Half-Balrog Elven Battle-mage, an Orc Mystic Knight of the White Rose (my NPC'd character while I am GMing, he didnt get a spirit to bond, my character that was bonded with a demon-dragonmage was human-psi-tech, but he got killed by a volley of missiles.) and a Half Fire Elemental Titan Russian Fire Sorcerer.

Well, they were a group of Vampire Hunters in the previous adventure I ran, but in the end of my campaign (about 27 months of every other weekend, 8 hours of session) they dealt a major blow to the vampire nation in the Yucatan, performing a ritual to rip the Vampire Intelligence OUT of its home realm into the realm of Earth where they had defenses, and a very heavy plot (involving about 120 mercenaries rescued from the hands of vampires) where they had a massive 'shock and awe' where they detonated about 50 strategically placed anti-tank mines and volleys of missiles and then small arms fire and magic to finish it off. (Intelligences in thier raw form have 2d6x10,000 MDC, the extensions that the vampire intelligences are listed in the book I ruled were essence fragments... but in terms of initial damage, they knocked the creature down to around 5000MDC in 15 seconds while the creature was stunned by wards and ritual magic. It was still a very heavy battle, and the creature would have escaped too but they had placed a ward preventing dimensional travel in the area so it got trapped when it tried to dimensionally teleport out.

After some time of celebration and what not, I decided to try to up the Ante. They had made friends with a Shaman that had the Universal Atunement thing from spirit west, and he informed them of 4 great disturbances that should not be in this realm for many more centuries. Thats right, I threw them against the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse.

Now, the 4horsemen as is, are weak pathetic pieces of garbage and could be easily taken out by a few tanks and time. So, I invented some new spells.

The one i invented for Death, is called Ruin. There is no PPE cost for it, its just on a use timer, since all of Death's abilities have a 2500ft range, I figured 2500ft radius centered on Death is a good starting point to make this guy a veritable right to be feared other than because the book says so.

Ruin, instantly reduces any and all (mostly buildings and vehicles, weapons and items not affected, not in the scope of the spell) to an aged state of uselessness. So, For instance, instead of having like 25 tanks from the CS armored division roll up on Death and drop him in a couple of melee rounds, once every 15 minutes he can destroy EVERYTHING in a 2500ft radius to the point of crumbled dust. Any persons caught in this are either instantly killed, or lose a 1/4 of their HP.

In a high powered game, I know this is a ridiculous spell, but with the high powered characters, and stats and spells as is, Death isn't very frightening. This adds an element of "holy **** we aren't prepared for this task".


Opinions?

[Nekira Sudacne]

If they are so very powerful, why do you want to cheepen what you gave them by artifically making badguys stronger? Seems kinda pointless to make the characters uberstrong badasses if your just gonna keep them the same relative power scale as a normal group to what their fighting.

[Jorel]

I think it is a good call. When most player groups who have tried have found it isn't too difficult to defeat the 4 horsemen, then maybe they need to up the difficulty a little. They need to make it challenging and still keep it fun.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think your missing the point that the four horsemen indvidually are supposed to be defeatable by an average adventuring party.

[SkyeFyre]

What you're proposing is yet more power creep. By continuously making things tougher and tougher your players are just going to keep getting stronger and stronger and before you know it the Old Ones will be shaking in their boots. Remember that sometimes the best way to deal with powerful characters is not upping the power level, but by increasing the numbers of opponents.

Personally I think that the spell is overpowered. I would make it more of a 2500ft aura around Death. Every melee round, everything within the aura takes 3D6MD. By everything I mean everything. Each individual location on PAs, every hand held weapon, they all take damage.

[Jorel]

I think your missing the point that the four horsemen indvidually are supposed to be defeatable by an average adventuring party.

That sounds pretty mundane and not very epic. Last Tuesday we defeated War, makes them sound like they aren't really threats, but just another days work at the shop.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think your missing the point that the four horsemen indvidually are supposed to be defeatable by an average adventuring party.

That sounds pretty mundane and not very epic. Last Tuesday we defeated War, makes them sound like they aren't really threats, but just another days work at the shop.

It's when they combine that they're an apopcalyptic threat. Indivdually they are supposed to be defeatable.

[Steeler49er]

If they are so very powerful, why do you want to cheepen what you gave them by artifically making badguys stronger? Seems kinda pointless to make the characters uberstrong badasses if your just gonna keep them the same relative power scale as a normal group to what their fighting.

I see You've never played WoW before, Otherwise you'd be used to it by now.

[Display-Name-Alpha]

I think your missing the point that the four horsemen indvidually are supposed to be defeatable by an average adventuring party.

he is still "defeatable" I've not given him a godlike amount of more MDC, I've merely given him a catastrophic spell that evens the odds for HIM. With sheer dice, a brigade of any military could reduce death to ashes in a single melee round. Where's the apocalyptic threat?

If suddenly, Death teleports into the middle of the Armored Division and reduces all of the artillery and 70% of the people to dust, they might think before sending another bridage and try to come up with a plan.


Now, imagine the threat this would ACTUALLY propose to Chi-Town if Death made it there.

[Display-Name-Alpha]

What you're proposing is yet more power creep. By continuously making things tougher and tougher your players are just going to keep getting stronger and stronger and before you know it the Old Ones will be shaking in their boots. Remember that sometimes the best way to deal with powerful characters is not upping the power level, but by increasing the numbers of opponents.

Personally I think that the spell is overpowered. I would make it more of a 2500ft aura around Death. Every melee round, everything within the aura takes 3D6MD. By everything I mean everything. Each individual location on PAs, every hand held weapon, they all take damage.

Im not just "adding more armor" making the "numbers bigger" so to speak.

And I thought about that, but thats ALOT of book keeping to do the 3d6 damage, but also, thats not much of a threat, 3d6 to literally everything, SDC, HP, armor, magic shield ect.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think your missing the point that the four horsemen indvidually are supposed to be defeatable by an average adventuring party.

he is still "defeatable" I've not given him a godlike amount of more MDC, I've merely given him a catastrophic spell that evens the odds for HIM. With sheer dice, a brigade of any military could reduce death to ashes in a single melee round. Where's the apocalyptic threat?

If suddenly, Death teleports into the middle of the Armored Division and reduces all of the artillery and 70% of the people to dust, they might think before sending another bridage and try to come up with a plan.


Now, imagine the threat this would ACTUALLY propose to Chi-Town if Death made it there.

Or better yet, play him like the genious demon lord he is and simply have him teleport away from any armored divisions leaving only leigions of undead in his wake.

[Jorel]

Now, now, chillun. You all know that never happened. They just slapped a pretty new cover on it.

[The Beast]

Query, . . . does the revised World Book 4 ever mentions what happens to their Netherbeasts, after they form the Armageddon Creature?

When did they revise WB 4?

The older version is the blue cover with Death on it raising dead from the ground. The fixed version has a redish-orange cover with a close-up of Death. AFAIK, the fixed version only added in the errata for WB4.

[Jorel]

Good to know. They have done that with a few others. I'd like a list of which later editions have the errata.

[SkyeFyre]

What you're proposing is yet more power creep. By continuously making things tougher and tougher your players are just going to keep getting stronger and stronger and before you know it the Old Ones will be shaking in their boots. Remember that sometimes the best way to deal with powerful characters is not upping the power level, but by increasing the numbers of opponents.

Personally I think that the spell is overpowered. I would make it more of a 2500ft aura around Death. Every melee round, everything within the aura takes 3D6MD. By everything I mean everything. Each individual location on PAs, every hand held weapon, they all take damage.

Im not just "adding more armor" making the "numbers bigger" so to speak.

And I thought about that, but thats ALOT of book keeping to do the 3d6 damage, but also, thats not much of a threat, 3d6 to literally everything, SDC, HP, armor, magic shield ect.

But you're creating a move that will insta-kill everything within 2500 feet. Pretty beefed up if you ask me.

See, for my games that would be brutal as I play the game dark and gritty as it should be. Just up the damage per melee round. Think about it... sensor systems die, exposed mini-missiles explode on their power armors...etc.

Or as Nekira so wisely pointed out... "Or better yet, play him like the genious demon lord he is and simply have him teleport away from any armored divisions leaving only leigions of undead in his wake."

[Display-Name-Alpha]

What you're proposing is yet more power creep. By continuously making things tougher and tougher your players are just going to keep getting stronger and stronger and before you know it the Old Ones will be shaking in their boots. Remember that sometimes the best way to deal with powerful characters is not upping the power level, but by increasing the numbers of opponents.

Personally I think that the spell is overpowered. I would make it more of a 2500ft aura around Death. Every melee round, everything within the aura takes 3D6MD. By everything I mean everything. Each individual location on PAs, every hand held weapon, they all take damage.

Im not just "adding more armor" making the "numbers bigger" so to speak.

And I thought about that, but thats ALOT of book keeping to do the 3d6 damage, but also, thats not much of a threat, 3d6 to literally everything, SDC, HP, armor, magic shield ect.

But you're creating a move that will insta-kill everything within 2500 feet. Pretty beefed up if you ask me.

See, for my games that would be brutal as I play the game dark and gritty as it should be. Just up the damage per melee round. Think about it... sensor systems die, exposed mini-missiles explode on their power armors...etc.

Or as Nekira so wisely pointed out... "Or better yet, play him like the genious demon lord he is and simply have him teleport away from any armored divisions leaving only leigions of undead in his wake."

Except Death doesn't rove with legions of undead. Hes a powerful magician badass, and knows it, hes got his Nightmare Zombies, and a handful of animated undead, and thats all he roams with. He is more of a "shock and awe" kind of aspect of destruction. IE, animating graveyards full of lovedones, using despair and agony for fun and excitement. It would be a "Oh, man, Death is coming everybody run!" the military rolls in like "WE GOT TANKS AND ****"... and instead of teleporting away, he just is the badass he is, and instantly crumbles all of the tanks, and killing a good portion of the inhabitants. The remaining ones would be horrified, imagine if suddenly you were in like Iraq, and some Sunni bastard wiped out your entire platoon, and the base it stood on, somehow you lived, but have the quick realization you are THE ONLY ONE. The psyche alone would be worth a save vs. insanity on top of elbow's n' assholin' it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

What you're proposing is yet more power creep. By continuously making things tougher and tougher your players are just going to keep getting stronger and stronger and before you know it the Old Ones will be shaking in their boots. Remember that sometimes the best way to deal with powerful characters is not upping the power level, but by increasing the numbers of opponents.

Personally I think that the spell is overpowered. I would make it more of a 2500ft aura around Death. Every melee round, everything within the aura takes 3D6MD. By everything I mean everything. Each individual location on PAs, every hand held weapon, they all take damage.

Im not just "adding more armor" making the "numbers bigger" so to speak.

And I thought about that, but thats ALOT of book keeping to do the 3d6 damage, but also, thats not much of a threat, 3d6 to literally everything, SDC, HP, armor, magic shield ect.

But you're creating a move that will insta-kill everything within 2500 feet. Pretty beefed up if you ask me.

See, for my games that would be brutal as I play the game dark and gritty as it should be. Just up the damage per melee round. Think about it... sensor systems die, exposed mini-missiles explode on their power armors...etc.

Or as Nekira so wisely pointed out... "Or better yet, play him like the genious demon lord he is and simply have him teleport away from any armored divisions leaving only leigions of undead in his wake."

Except Death doesn't rove with legions of undead. Hes a powerful magician badass, and knows it, hes got his Nightmare Zombies, and a handful of animated undead, and thats all he roams with. He is more of a "shock and awe" kind of aspect of destruction. IE, animating graveyards full of lovedones, using despair and agony for fun and excitement. It would be a "Oh, man, Death is coming everybody run!" the military rolls in like "WE GOT TANKS AND ****"... and instead of teleporting away, he just is the badass he is, and instantly crumbles all of the tanks, and killing a good portion of the inhabitants. The remaining ones would be horrified, imagine if suddenly you were in like Iraq, and some Sunni bastard wiped out your entire platoon, and the base it stood on, somehow you lived, but have the quick realization you are THE ONLY ONE. The psyche alone would be worth a save vs. insanity on top of elbow's n' assholin' it.

Ummm, you apparently forgot the part in his powers where he can summon 1d4*100 animated dead every turn. He tottally roves with legions of undead. it gets bigger every step he takes.

[SkyeFyre]

But you're creating a move that will insta-kill everything within 2500 feet. Pretty beefed up if you ask me.

See, for my games that would be brutal as I play the game dark and gritty as it should be. Just up the damage per melee round. Think about it... sensor systems die, exposed mini-missiles explode on their power armors...etc.

Or as Nekira so wisely pointed out... "Or better yet, play him like the genious demon lord he is and simply have him teleport away from any armored divisions leaving only leigions of undead in his wake."

He never said it would insta-kill everything within 2500 feet. Read the original post again. And pay attention this time.

I didn't even bother reading the post the second you took an insulting tone with your "And pay attention this time." comment. Maybe if you care to rewrite it, politely this time I'll consider reading it. I am sorry that I have to be a damn lawyer on these boards and write my posts like a legal document. Of course I read the part with the 1/4 HP crap but that's as good as dead when you're sitting next to Death anyways so I figured I would shorten it to "insta-kill everything" instead of...

"I object because it appears to me that you are house ruling (see creating a rule outside the regular rules as printed in the books) that Death (not the state of no longer living but of being dead but the evil supernatural creature) has an ability that he can invoke (or cause to happen) in which he can destroy, kill, or cause death upon everything within a 2500 foot radius of himself or in some cases which would then be determined by a GM (as you did not provide any set circumstances for this event to occur and I am assuming) some things would be reduced to 1/4 of their max HP. Now if something does not have HP then I am unsure how that will affect them....etc"

Get the point? Lighten up.

[SkyeFyre]

First of all, not into hockey.
Secondly, I made deliberate exaggerations to make a point.
Thirdly, I didn't attack you as a person, I expressed my frustration. Calling me a Leafs fan is just mean

I'm just becoming more and more frustrated with these boards. You can't say anything, and I do mean anything without having some people assuming points about you, telling you that you're illogical and what you're saying makes no sense (in a fictional sci-fi game with pistols that rival tank cannons) or just saying "I disagree, therefore you are wrong"

So now that I've gotten that off my chest. Sure my method could have been clunky if you kept track of every area but what I've done is rather than assign damage to each area I just keep track of the total damage it's done and when something's MDC value is equal to or less than the total it is destroyed.

I would just keep Death the way he is. I think more GM's need to look at these villans as their characters in the sense of problem solving and using their abilities. Like, as much effort as the players put into keeping their characters alive, the GM should be doing that for their villan while staying within the rules.

[SkyeFyre]

@Cain: I also have to apologize. It seems we both took out our board frustration out on each other. I find my temper getting the better of me lately. Sorry man.

[Display-Name-Alpha]

What you're proposing is yet more power creep. By continuously making things tougher and tougher your players are just going to keep getting stronger and stronger and before you know it the Old Ones will be shaking in their boots. Remember that sometimes the best way to deal with powerful characters is not upping the power level, but by increasing the numbers of opponents.

Personally I think that the spell is overpowered. I would make it more of a 2500ft aura around Death. Every melee round, everything within the aura takes 3D6MD. By everything I mean everything. Each individual location on PAs, every hand held weapon, they all take damage.

Im not just "adding more armor" making the "numbers bigger" so to speak.

And I thought about that, but thats ALOT of book keeping to do the 3d6 damage, but also, thats not much of a threat, 3d6 to literally everything, SDC, HP, armor, magic shield ect.

But you're creating a move that will insta-kill everything within 2500 feet. Pretty beefed up if you ask me.

See, for my games that would be brutal as I play the game dark and gritty as it should be. Just up the damage per melee round. Think about it... sensor systems die, exposed mini-missiles explode on their power armors...etc.

Or as Nekira so wisely pointed out... "Or better yet, play him like the genious demon lord he is and simply have him teleport away from any armored divisions leaving only leigions of undead in his wake."

Except Death doesn't rove with legions of undead. Hes a powerful magician badass, and knows it, hes got his Nightmare Zombies, and a handful of animated undead, and thats all he roams with. He is more of a "shock and awe" kind of aspect of destruction. IE, animating graveyards full of lovedones, using despair and agony for fun and excitement. It would be a "Oh, man, Death is coming everybody run!" the military rolls in like "WE GOT TANKS AND ****"... and instead of teleporting away, he just is the badass he is, and instantly crumbles all of the tanks, and killing a good portion of the inhabitants. The remaining ones would be horrified, imagine if suddenly you were in like Iraq, and some Sunni bastard wiped out your entire platoon, and the base it stood on, somehow you lived, but have the quick realization you are THE ONLY ONE. The psyche alone would be worth a save vs. insanity on top of elbow's n' assholin' it.

Ummm, you apparently forgot the part in his powers where he can summon 1d4*100 animated dead every turn. He tottally roves with legions of undead. it gets bigger every step he takes.

And you stopped reading after that, because it clearly states that "Death seldom surrounds himself with an army of dead, especially when traveling. He will either travel alone with his nether beast or be accompanied by 2d4 nightmare zombies and 2d6 animated dead"

2d4 low-mid range MD creations vulnerable to ordinary MD weapons fire, and animated bodies vulnerable to a stiff wind does not pose much threat to even a Coalition DogBoy Squad. They would dispatch most of the lower range things within 1-2 attacks with grenades and maybe a missile, the Nightmare zombies within a few melee rounds, and Death would be again, by his lonesome with his netherbeast.

Obvisouly whatever recon squad or roving unit first encountered Death's presence would be radioed to their base, and a larger force would be sent to deal with it, probably a RECON PA asset to determine the status of said recon squad, when word came back they were all dead, they would dispatch fully equipped armored squads to travel and have faster PA sent out on recon to find it and coordinate the attack....

Obviously without my spell, hes not much of a threat as soon as they would converge, they would have maybe a handful of Nightmare Zombies and a group of animated dead. Also, animated dead dont do MD damage, so they pose no threat to anything in MD armor period other than annoyance and in the way. The squads would converge, large amounts of weapons fire would ensue, 10's of thousands of dice of damage would roll out, and Death wouldn't exist in this realm anymore.

[csbioborg]

you could have them ride with world destroyer demons from Chaos Earth
the write up says they are allies of the four horsemen
that would give them a definte power boost

[Nadrakas]

you could have them ride with world destroyer demons from Chaos Earth
the write up says they are allies of the four horsemen
that would give them a definte power boost

I could see it now, as the Four Horesemen begin far away from each other the World Slayer Demons Squads begin to appear. At first near to, but not with individual Four Horesemen, but as they begin to come together more and more World Slayer Demons Squads appear until, finally, when all of the Four Horesemen come together to make the Armageddon Creature, there are Legions upon Legions of World Slayer Demons surrounding them as an Honor Guard.

And perhaps, the World Slayer Demon Squads, might mirror the Four Horesemen in a way. This is by no means Cannon: Perhaps, when the Four Horesemen come together to create the Armageddon Creature, each of the World Slayer Demon Squads -- aka: Apocalyptic Demons -- becomes a single Grand Apocalyptic Demon, following the commands of the Armageddon Creature. That way, a squad of Power Armors & Robots can't "easily" destroy the World Slayer Demon Squads...and each squad becomes a truly horrifying & devastating Grand Apocalyptic Demon! (Would also cut down on some of the book keeping).

Ultimately, the above (ie: Grand Apocalyptic Demon) would depend on the Power Level of an individual Campaign...or the ingenuity of the PCs. I've seen moderately powerful PCs pull of things a more powerful group had trouble with, all because they used their brains.


~ N

[csbioborg]

you could have them ride with world destroyer demons from Chaos Earth
the write up says they are allies of the four horsemen
that would give them a definte power boost

I could see it now, as the Four Horesemen begin far away from each other the World Slayer Demons Squads begin to appear. At first near to, but not with individual Four Horesemen, but as they begin to come together more and more World Slayer Demons Squads appear until, finally, when all of the Four Horesemen come together to make the Armageddon Creature, there are Legions upon Legions of World Slayer Demons surrounding them as an Honor Guard.

And perhaps, the World Slayer Demon Squads, might mirror the Four Horesemen in a way. This is by no means Cannon: Perhaps, when the Four Horesemen come together to create the Armageddon Creature, each of the World Slayer Demon Squads -- aka: Apocalyptic Demons -- becomes a single Grand Apocalyptic Demon, following the commands of the Armageddon Creature. That way, a squad of Power Armors & Robots can't "easily" destroy the World Slayer Demon Squads...and each squad becomes a truly horrifying & devastating Grand Apocalyptic Demon! (Would also cut down on some of the book keeping).

Ultimately, the above (ie: Grand Apocalyptic Demon) would depend on the Power Level of an individual Campaign...or the ingenuity of the PCs. I've seen moderately powerful PCs pull of things a more powerful group had trouble with, all because they used their brains.

~ N

admitedly this defeated the point of roleplaying to a certain extent but I played with military friend in a vs campagin a group of grunts took out the civilian mystic knight players
pretty easy with explosives sniping and traps

[Nekira Sudacne]

I still think we should have an Armageddon Netherbeast, for the Armageddon Creature to ride, and perhaps fly.

I'm more under the impression once the armagedon creature is formed, it no longer has a need to travel anywhere. It's capabel of extending it's powers with a global range.

[Jorel]

They still do that.

[Nadrakas]

I'm more under the impression once the armagedon creature is formed, it no longer has a need to travel anywhere. It's capabel of extending it's powers with a global range.

True, the Armageddon Creature goes global automatically. I'm just thinking in terms of upping the challenge a bit more, by having the Netherbeasts help out the Armageddon Creature against the players. That's all.

Plus, it would be Stylish and Cool. You have to be Stylish and have the Cool Factor.


~ N

[Nadrakas]

Plus, it would be Stylish and Cool. You have to be Stylish and have the Cool Factor.

Agreed. Having an Armageddon Netherbeast that is able to give lots of helping methods to deal destruction with a 60 foot tall walking, talking, casting, and overall single global killing force, will sure up the ante and excitement for the players to combat. Just imagine, a group of 10 to 20 players, have to split up into 4 groups to combat them. 1 for the undead and demon forces. 1 for the robots and fanatical soldiers. 1 for the Armageddon Netherbeast. And 1 for the Armageddon Creature. Then tie in some change ups, and have some team co-op mixes, during the combat sequences. Oh yeah, it's on.

i blame this on you Emperor Ryu.

I spent half-the-night putting this together.

_____________________________________________________________________

Presenting:

Doom, The Armageddon Netherbeast

When the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse become one, The Armageddon Creature, their Netherbeasts also merge together, to become the Armageddon Netherbeast, Doom.

Name: Doom

Alignment: Diabolic

Attributes: I.Q.: 10, M.E.: 21, M.A.: 10, P.S.: 84, P.P.: 29, P.E.: 24, P.B. 2, Spd: 332 (226 mph/364 kph) and can maintain top speed indefinitely without tiring. P.S. and P.E. are supernatural.

Mega-Damage Creature: 5,300 (3,200 Natural M.D.C. + 2,100 from it's Chitinous Body Armor)

Horror Factor: 16

Natural Abilities: Regenerates 1d4x100 M.D.C. per melee

P.P.E.: 50

I.S.P.: None, although it is used to receiving telepathic commands from its master.

Size: 70 feet ( 21.3 meters) at the shoulders and 150 feet (45.72 meters) long from the tip of its snout to the end of its tail. 80 tons.
Edit: 76.2 feet (23.23 meters) at the shoulders and 208 feet (63.4 meters) long, with an 104 feet (31.7 meters) long tail, for a total length of 312 feet (95.1 meters) from the tip of its snout to the end of its tail. 83.2 tons.


Attacks Per Melee: (6)
- Full Strength Claw Strike: 2d6x10
- Tail Strike: 2d6x10
- Bite: 2d4x10
- Head Butt: 1d4x10
- Pounce Attack: 2d6x10. Automatically knocks down any Creature/Armor/Vehicle who is under 15 feet tall. For any Creature/Armor/Vehicle measuring 15 to 30 feet there is a 90% chance that they will be knocked down. For any Creature/Armor/Vehicle over 30 feet there is a 70% chance that they will be knocked down. Any Creature/Armor/Vehicle knocked down is automatically pinned and suffers 2d6x10 M.D.C. on each of Dooms attacks. The Pounce Attack counts as two melee actions.

Bonuses (includes all bonuses): +8 on initiative, +13 to strike, +12 to parry/dodge, +12 to roll w/impact, +4 to pull punch, critical strike on a roll of a natural 19 or 20, +7 to save vs psionic attack, +11 to save vs magic, +11 to save vs poison/drugs.

Special Powers:

1. Swallow Whole: On a bite attack, Doom swallows whole any opponent smaller than 20 feet tall on a Critical Strike or if the attack roll beats the defense roll (Dodge/Parry) by 10 or more. Any person without a Sealed Environmental Suite, Power Armor or equivalent magical protection must make an immediate Poison Save of 17+ or be Paralyzed for by Dooms internal juices. After 1d4 minutes another save must be made, whether the character has already saved or not. While inside Doom, stomach acids powerful enough to dissolve the strongest of substances (Diamonds, Gods, etc) dissolve everything they touch, doing 3d6x10 M.D.C. at the beginning of each melee. There is no effective way to counter Dooms stomach Acid, as it is unique to the Armageddon Creature. Attempts to create a hole through Dooms body from the inside are possible, but require 120 M.D.C. to be done in a single attack or a coordinated attack by multiple attackers, otherwise the internal damage heals too quickly.

2. Breath of Doom: Doom can make an Breath attack once per Melee at the cost of 3 of the Armageddon Creatures normal attacks. The Breath extends in a cone from Dooms mouth out to 1,500 feet, where it's maximum width of 750 feet is achieved. The Breath of Doom has several affects: First, everything in the area of affect suffers 4d6x10 M.D.C.. Second, anything living that is not in a Sealed Environmental Suite, Power Armor or similar magical protection must make a Poison Save of 15+ or be Paralyzed for 2d4 Melees (It is not as concentrated as being inside of Doom). Third, every melee for 2d4 melees, every creature suffers 2d6x10 M.D.C. damage as the Breath of Doom continues to devour their armor, clothes, and their bodies (Roll the 2d4 melee duration separately for each creature). Fourth, while suffering from this cumulative damage, each creature must, every melee, continue to make a Poison Save of 15+ or be Paralyzed for 2d4 Melees. A character in Environmental Armor or Power Armor, who is about to have his/her suite eaten through, can take the Armor off in order to avoid taking damage and having to make the Poison Save. Of course, they will be exposed to other attacks.

Any further attacks with the Breath of Doom do not require extra Poison Saves, but do add extra initial damage and extra damage per melee.

3. Insect Swarms: Dooms Chitinous Armor is home to tens-of-millions of flying, buzzing, stinging insects who will swarm anytime the Armor is disturbed. An attack will draw the ire of the insects, who are uncontrollable by anyone except for the Armageddon Creature, down upon those who committed the attack. This causes a -5 to attacks due to the distraction and the swarm blocking the attackers view. The swarm inflict little damage themselves compared to their host, causing 4d6 S.D.C., but their distraction may be enough to doom the attackers. The Chitinous Armor has a near infinite number of insect Swarms inside it, but GM's should be careful not to send wave after wave of Insect Swarms after the PCs. See Pestilence's description in Rifts Africa for the Different kind of Swarms.

Description: Doom is a massive beast, towering 70 feet (21.3 meters) and measuring 150 feet (45.72 meters) long from it's massive, tooth filled jaws to it's powerful tail. Dooms powerful, but lithe body is covered in Chitinous Armor of Blood Red and Black. Insects by the tens-of-millions, who have made their homes inside the Chitinous Armor, are constantly buzzing around Doom. They swarm anytime the Armor is disturbed, such as when it is attacked. Hanging on chains from Dooms Chitinous Armor are the remains of over hundreds putrid, rotting bodies, the jingling of the chains and bones announcing the arrival of Death to those who hear their discordant cacophony.

_____________________________________________________________________

I wanted to give the Armageddon Creature a riding beast that would be worthy of it. The idea of an intelligent one (I.Q. 10) struck me as right and replacing Wars Mounts Plasma Cannon with a Breath Weapon felt more natural to the creature.


~ N

[Nadrakas]

i blame this on you Emperor Ryu.

I spent half-the-night putting this together.

_____________________________________________________________________

Presenting:

Doom, The Armageddon Netherbeast

When the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse become one, The Armageddon Creature, their Netherbeasts also merge together, to become the Armageddon Netherbeast, Doom.

Name: Doom

Alignment: Diabolic

Attributes: I.Q.: 10, M.E.: 21, M.A.: 10, P.S.: 84, P.P.: 29, P.E.: 24, P.B. 2, Spd: 332 (226 mph/364 kph) and can maintain top speed indefinitely without tiring. P.S. and P.E. are supernatural.

Mega-Damage Creature: 5,300 (3,200 Natural M.D.C. + 2,100 from it's Chitinous Body Armor)

Horror Factor: 16

Natural Abilities: Regenerates 1d4x100 M.D.C. per melee

P.P.E.: 50

I.S.P.: None, although it is used to receiving telepathic commands from its master.

Size: 70 feet ( 21.3 meters) at the shoulders and 150 feet (45.72 meters) long from the tip of its snout to the end of its tail. 80 tons.

Attacks Per Melee: (6)
- Full Strength Claw Strike: 2d6x10
- Tail Strike: 2d6x10
- Bite: 2d4x10
- Head Butt: 1d4x10
- Pounce Attack: 2d6x10. Automatically knocks down any Creature/Armor/Vehicle who is under 15 feet tall. For any Creature/Armor/Vehicle measuring 15 to 30 feet there is a 90% chance that they will be knocked down. For any Creature/Armor/Vehicle over 30 feet there is a 70% chance that they will be knocked down. Any Creature/Armor/Vehicle knocked down is automatically pinned and suffers 2d6x10 M.D.C. on each of Dooms attacks. The Pounce Attack counts as two melee actions.

Bonuses (includes all bonuses): +8 on initiative, +13 to strike, +12 to parry/dodge, +12 to roll w/impact, +4 to pull punch, critical strike on a roll of a natural 19 or 20, +7 to save vs psionic attack, +11 to save vs magic, +11 to save vs poison/drugs.

Special Powers:

1. Swallow Whole: On a bite attack, Doom swallows whole any opponent smaller than 20 feet tall on a Critical Strike or if the attack roll beats the defense roll (Dodge/Parry) by 10 or more. Any person without a Sealed Environmental Suite, Power Armor or equivalent magical protection must make an immediate Poison Save of 17+ or be Paralyzed for by Dooms internal juices. After 1d4 minutes another save must be made, whether the character has already saved or not. While inside Doom, stomach acids powerful enough to dissolve the strongest of substances (Diamonds, Gods, etc) dissolve everything they touch, doing 3d6x10 M.D.C. at the beginning of each melee. There is no effective way to counter Dooms stomach Acid, as it is unique to the Armageddon Creature. Attempts to create a hole through Dooms body from the inside are possible, but require 120 M.D.C. to be done in a single attack or a coordinated attack by multiple attackers, otherwise the internal damage heals too quickly.

2. Breath of Doom: Doom can make an Breath attack once per Melee at the cost of 3 of the Armageddon Creatures normal attacks. The Breath extends in a cone from Dooms mouth out to 1,500 feet, where it's maximum width of 750 feet is achieved. The Breath of Doom has several affects: First, everything in the area of affect suffers 4d6x10 M.D.C.. Second, anything living that is not in a Sealed Environmental Suite, Power Armor or similar magical protection must make a Poison Save of 15+ or be Paralyzed for 2d4 Melees (It is not as concentrated as being inside of Doom). Third, every melee for 2d4 melees, every creature suffers 2d6x10 M.D.C. damage as the Breath of Doom continues to devour their armor, clothes, and their bodies (Roll the 2d4 melee duration separately for each creature). Fourth, while suffering from this cumulative damage, each creature must, every melee, continue to make a Poison Save of 15+ or be Paralyzed for 2d4 Melees. A character in Environmental Armor or Power Armor, who is about to have his/her suite eaten through, can take the Armor off in order to avoid taking damage and having to make the Poison Save. Of course, they will be exposed to other attacks.

Any further attacks with the Breath of Doom do not require extra Poison Saves, but do add extra initial damage and extra damage per melee.

3. Insect Swarms: Dooms Chitinous Armor is home to tens-of-millions of flying, buzzing, stinging insects who will swarm anytime the Armor is disturbed. An attack will draw the ire of the insects, who are uncontrollable by anyone except for the Armageddon Creature, down upon those who committed the attack. This causes a -5 to attacks due to the distraction and the swarm blocking the attackers view. The swarm inflict little damage themselves compared to their host, causing 4d6 S.D.C., but their distraction may be enough to doom the attackers. The Chitinous Armor has a near infinite number of insect Swarms inside it, but GM's should be careful not to send wave after wave of Insect Swarms after the PCs. See Pestilence's description in Rifts Africa for the Different kind of Swarms.

Description: Doom is a massive beast, towering 70 feet (21.3 meters) and measuring 150 feet (45.72 meters) long from it's massive, tooth filled jaws to it's powerful tail. Dooms powerful, but lithe body is covered in Chitinous Armor of Blood Red and Black. Insects by the tens-of-millions, who have made their homes inside the Chitinous Armor, are constantly buzzing around Doom. They swarm anytime the Armor is disturbed, such as when it is attacked. Hanging on chains from Dooms Chitinous Armor are the remains of over hundreds putrid, rotting bodies, the jingling of the chains and bones announcing the arrival of Death to those who hear their discordant cacophony.

_____________________________________________________________________

I wanted to give the Armageddon Creature a riding beast that would be worthy of it. The idea of an intelligent one (I.Q. 10) struck me as right and replacing Wars Mounts Plasma Cannon with a Breath Weapon felt more natural to the creature.

SWEET!!! Sorry. I didn't mean to put you through this kind of trouble, in the first place. My bad.

I was actually hoping a Rifts writer will take on the task, and have it printed in a Rifter issue. Unless, Palladium Books hires you and this new material has now been canonized, into the RPG. Though, if not, in exchange for this, I'll post my version of the Armageddon Netherbeast, later on. It's only fair.

It's ok. I actually enjoyed doing it. I sometimes find myself waking up in the middle of the night with an idea for my games (or future games...). I keep a pad of paper next to the bed so that I can write them down (My noggin took a pretty bad knock waaaay back in '91 and my brain don't hold memories as well anymore...but paper works to jog the olde 386 onboard computer...).

And thank you for thinking this is worthy of Rifters ...but I've never had anything published, except maybe a letter or two in a Gaming Magazine or two. I honestly don't think it's good enough for Rifters...but I'm my own worst critic (Always have been...)

Oh yes. Please post your Armageddon Netherbeast.

Hmmm.....this makes me want to create more "Things" for my Chaos Earth Campaign (Which will eventually become a Rifts Earth Campaign...sometime in the Future... )


~ N

[Nekira Sudacne]

Umm, why is your armagedon beast about four times as powerful as the actual armageddon creature?

[SkyeFyre]

I was wondering the same thing. The power level is way out of whack.

[Nadrakas]

It's ok. I actually enjoyed doing it. I sometimes find myself waking up in the middle of the night with an idea for my games (or future games...). I keep a pad of paper next to the bed so that I can write them down (My noggin took a pretty bad knock waaaay back in '91 and my brain don't hold memories as well anymore...but paper works to jog the olde 386 onboard computer...).

And thank you for thinking this is worthy of Rifters ...but I've never had anything published, except maybe a letter or two in a Gaming Magazine or two. I honestly don't think it's good enough for Rifters...but I'm my own worst critic (Always have been...)

Oh yes. Please post your Armageddon Netherbeast.

Hmmm.....this makes me want to create more "Things" for my Chaos Earth Campaign (Which will eventually become a Rifts Earth Campaign...sometime in the Future... )

I get that feeling sometimes too, but at times, find myself unable to finish, because another great idea pops in my mind to improve the previous idea, thus ending up starting a whole new project.

Well, I enjoy the materials other fans make, because I can figure out interesting ways to use them in a campaign, even though I no longer play.

Okay. Here is my version, . . . enjoy.

Please note that I did not, in no way, used your stats as a template, when I made this.

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ARMAGEDDON NETHERBEAST

Name = Annihilāre (Latin for "Annihilation")

Alignment = A predatory diabolic animal.

P.S. = 90 (supernatural)
P.P. = 40 (supernatural)
P.E. = 40 (supernatural)
P.B. = 4 (supernatural)
M.E. = 30 (supernatural)
M.A. = 20 (supernatural)
I.Q. = 16 (supernatural): Highly cunning and very, very intelligent killer.
Spd. = 440 (supernatural): 300 mph/482.803 kmph.
Flying = 704 (supernatural): 480 mph/772.485 kmph, able to maintain flight for 48 hours straight if all four Netherbeasts are merged together. If only three, 24 hours straight. Two, 12 hours straight. Maximum altitude is 250,000 feet (47.348 miles/76.2 km). Each wing, that looks like Dragon Wings, are magically folded up and tucked into the sides of the body. Each one has 5,000 M.D.C. and bio-regenerates 1D4x100 M.D.C. per minute.

M.D.C. = 96,000 (14,000 M.D.C. body armor): Can bio-regenerate 2D6x1000 M.D.C. per minute. Regenerate a lost limb, that is, if it can get through all of that M.D.C. first, including horns, wings and tail, in 1D4 hours. If the head is decapitated, again, if the slicing attack can get through all that M.D.C. first, the head can be reattached back onto the moving body (This means the body will go straight to the head and retrieve and reattach it.). If the head is destroyed, reminder, must get through all of that M.D.C. first, the body will regenerate the head in 1D12 hours, complete with memories and knowledge, the whole works, up to the point where the head was destroyed.

Vulnerabilities = In order to kill the Armageddon Netherbeast, its M.D.C. must be reduced to a -16,000 M.D.C. Holy weapons, and weapons made by the Millennium Tree and silver, inflicts double damage. Every other weapon inflicts its respective, normal damages on the Armageddon Netherbeast.

P.P.E. = 1,000, any surplus of P.P.E., will eventually be reduced back to its maximum amount in 2D4 days.
I.S.P = 500, plus it can telepathically communicate with the Armageddon Creature. Any surplus of I.S.P., will eventually be reduced back to its maximum amount in 2D4 days.

Experience Level = Equal to a 15th level Ley Line Walker, African/Night Witch, Biomancer, Necromancer, Cloudweaver, Warlock, Mind Melter, and Warrior.

Horror Factor = 18

Size = 80 feet tall, 42 feet wide, 210 feet long, from its tip of the extended tusks, to the tip of the tail. Weighs at 100 tons.

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Attacks Per Melee = Eight.

Full Strength Claw Strike: 4D6x10 M.D.
Dual Rear Kick: 6D6x10 M.D.
Tail Strike: 2D6x10 M.D.
Bite: 2D6x10 M.D.
Head Butt: 1D6x10 M.D.
Head Stabbing Singe Horn Attack: 2D6x10 M.D.
Head Stabbing Dual Horns Attack: 4D6x10 M.D.
Head Stabbing Three Horns Attack: 6D6x10 M.D.
Tusks Ram Attack: 2D4x10 M.D.
Tusks Stabbing Attack: 3D4x10 M.D.
Pincer Tusks Attack: 4D4x10 M.D., plus 4D4 M.D. per minute of crushing.
Pounce Attack: 4D6x10 M.D., automatic knockdown for any living being, power armor, robot, vehicle that is within 32 feet in height. 90% knockdown chance for 32+ to 54 feet. 54+ to 79 feet falls within the 40% chance to knockdown.

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Special Powers = The Armageddon Netherbeast has six special powers.

1. Energy Mouth Blast: This power for the Armageddon Netherbeast is most extraordinary. It can decide just what type of energy blast, it wants to use, during combat. The selection covers, laser, plasma, ion, and particle beam.

Mega-Damage = Ion: 3D6x10 M.D. per blast. Laser: 4D6x10 M.D. per blast. Particle Beam: 5D6x10 M.D. per blast. Plasma: 6D6x10 M.D. per blast.
Range = 6 Miles (31,680 feet/9,656.083 meters)
Rate of Fire = Equal to the number of attacks per melee the Armageddon Netherbeast has (8).
Payload = Unlimited.
Note: After 1,000 blasts, the Armageddon Netherbeast needs to rest for at least 1D8 hours, before using this ability again.

2. Hell Horns of Plenty: There are three, folded back horns, on top of the head, as well as two folded back tusks on the lower sides of the jaw. These are the horns of the Armageddon Netherbeast, and not part of the body armor. The two folded back curved, demonic-looking, tusks are both 20 feet long. The two folded back horns, above the eyes, are 14 feet in length. The folded back snout horn is 9 feet in length. When extended out, they are solidly locked in place, and only retracts when there is no engaged combat to itself or the Armageddon Creature, and eats and drinks. The Armageddon Netherbeast can decide whether to have one, or two, or three, or four, or all five horns to extend out in combat. The special power of these horns is that they can be fired as projectiles, except for the tusks, though they can be willfully detached when the tusks are deeply embedded in something, or someone. The detached tusks then turns into a fully concentrated acid in 1D4 minutes, and will melt anything, that it has been embedded in. The acid will pool on the ground and disappear in 3D8 hours. The three, top, projectile, head horns cover a different aspect. They can explode at will of the Armageddon Netherbeast's command. They can be detonated as mid-air bursts of hundreds of cluster exploding anti-personnel mines too. The Armageddon Netherbeast can fire these horns in single shots, or bursts of three minimum, and up to twenty at maximum. It can choose between a single burst, a dual burst, or even a triple burst.

Mega-Damage = See the Attacks Per Melee Section for non-projectile combat damages. 3D6x10 M.D. per horn. 6D6x10 M.D. per dual horns. 9D6x10 M.D. per triple horns. Bursts are multipliers, meaning a burst of three horns is interpreted as 3D6x10x3 M.D. Same goes for dual, and triple horn bursts. Exploding horns 4D6x10 M.D. each, in a 10 feet radius. The mid-air exploding cluster horns does 1D6x10 M.D. in a 30 feet radius (Inner), and between the 30+ foot range to 60 feet radius (Outer) beyond, does 6D6 M.D.
Range = 3 Miles (15,840 feet/4,828.042 meters).
Rate of Fire = Both the shots and bursts are equal to the number of attacks per melee the Armageddon Netherbeast has (8).
Payload = Unlimited.
Note: After 30 times of use, the Armageddon Netherbeast must rest for 1D12 hours, before using this ability again.

3. Natural Magical Powers: The magical abilities of the Armageddon Netherbeast is like nothing ever seen or done before, and most definitely that this destructive force is the only one that can do this, in which it is not require to speak in order to cast the spells. Instead, it fully concentrates and the spell it wants to use, and the spell is activated. The Armageddon Netherbeast automatically knows and limited to the following magic, . . .

African Evil Eye
Forest Camouflage
Fog of War
See the Invisible
See the Light
Mind Fog
Invisibility: Superior
Detect the Invisible
Shatter
Track
Nightvision
See Through Smoke
Breathe Fire
Melt Metal
Float on Water
Sense Direction Underwater
Breathe Under Water
Swim as a Fish: Superior
Blinding Flash
See Aura
Sense Magic
Befuddle
Climb
Detect Concealment
Aura of Doom
Havoc
Disharmonize
Annihilate
Recognize the Undead
Consume Power & Knowledge
Sense Bad Food & Drink
Sense Poison

4. Psionic Powers: The psionic abilities of the Armageddon Netherbeast automatically knows and limited to the following, . . .

Detect Psionics
Mind Block
Nightvision
Empathy
Presence Sense
See Aura
See The Invisible
Sense Magic
Sixth Sense
Telepathy
Empathic Transmission
Group Mind Block
Mind Block Auto-Defense
Mind Bolt
Mind Bond

5. Other Abilities: Totally impervious to all forms of mind control/possession, and normal fire. Has excellent sight and can see specific targets clearly, and see in detail as far as up to twelve miles away in the air. Always alert and aware where the Armageddon Creature is at all times. Can increase regenerative powers quicker through eating by up to 25% more (So reduce all regenerating requirements by 25%.) for a ton of flesh consumed. Only eats one ton of flesh every month, but can eat up to twenty tons, per six months. And drinks twenty gallons of water (fresh or salt) every three weeks.

6. Projectile Tail Strike: Like the Hell Horns of Plenty power, it can release the bladed portion of the tail, by whipping it. Once released, the tail creates a new one in its place, and repeat the same attack. Each projectile counts as one melee attack action, the following melee action is to regenerate the bladed portion of the tail.

Mega-Damage = 1D6x10 M.D. per blade.
Range = 1 Mile (5,280 feet/1,609.347 meters).
Rate of Fire = Equal to the number of attacks per melee the Armageddon Netherbeast has (8).
Payload = Unlimited.
Note: After 100 times of use, the Armageddon Netherbeast must rest for 1D10 hours, before using this ability again.

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Weapons/Body Armor Notes = The Armageddon Netherbeast has a unique body armor. It absolutely cannot be removed from the Armageddon Netherbeast. First, there are seven inanimate corpses, that can be summoned, by the Armageddon Creature, to be animated into any type of undead. When they return to the lifeless corpses, they can be summoned again into any type of undead again. For example, all seven corpses are summoned to become Bone Fiends. After they are done and returned back to regular corpses, they are summoned again, but this time, as Master Vampires. The corpses can be summoned into a mixed bunch of undead, at the Armageddon Creature's discretion. Second, it almost has the same ability as a Soul Drinker. The armor has 40, four foot long, magically retractable, sharp spikes (Each one does 1D6x10 M.D.), they automatically pop out of the armor, when combat is initiated. These spikes will not affect the Armageddon Creature, nor the Armageddon Netherbeast, and the souls can be transferred to the Armageddon Netherbeast and be turned into P.P.E. and I.S.P. energy (Each soul, depending on the alignment of the once living being, is converted as follows, . . .

Principled: 1,000/1,000 (P.P.E./I.S.P.)
Scrupulous: 900/800 (P.P.E./I.S.P.)
Unprincipled: 800/600 (P.P.E./I.S.P.)
Anarchist: 700/700 (P.P.E./I.S.P.)
Miscreant: 600/800 (P.P.E./I.S.P.)
Aberrant: 500/900 (P.P.E./I.S.P.)
Diabolic: 400/1,000 (P.P.E./I.S.P.)

Third, the armor can magically create any melee weapon at the command of the Armageddon Creature. This includes all magical melee weapons, and all rune melee weapons, with all the powers of that melee weapon, that exists on Rifts Earth. So if the Armageddon Creature commands twelve Impalers be made to use, the armor is going to magically create twelve Impalers for each of its arms. (Please note: the size of the melee weapons created, will match the size of the Armageddon Creature like a normal 6 foot tall humanoid would. So if a regular 5 foot long sword fits a 6 foot tall humanoid, the body armor will create a 59 foot long regular sword. So adjust melee weapon damages accordingly.) Fourth, there are four magically, retractable, short barreled plasma cannons. There's one cannon on the upper sides of both the front legs, and back legs. They can rotate 360 degrees, and elevate 180 degrees around.

Mega-Damage = Each plasma cannon does 2D6x10 M.D. 4D6x10 per dual blasts. 6D6x10 per triple blasts. 8D6x10 M.D. per quadruple blasts.
Range = 10 Miles (52,800 feet/16,093.427 meters)
Rate of Fire = As many as twenty per melee round. Each blast counts as one of the Armageddon Creature's attacks per melee actions. Dual, triple, and quadruple blasts all count as "one attack".
Payload = Unlimited.
Note: Each plasma cannon is 1,000 M.D.C., and can regenerate 1D6x100 M.D.C. per hour.

Lastly, the body armor can regenerate at 1D4x1000 M.D.C. per minute. No one can fully understand how this melting together of body armor and Netherbeast together, is so capable in the first place. Some have speculated that it might have something to do with the Armageddon Creature's birth having side affects to the beasts merging together, soon right after. While others made comments that the birth of the Armageddon Netherbeast connects and receives knowledge of every existing melee weapon, on Rifts Earth at the same time.

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Bonuses = +9 initiative, +13 strike, +13 parry and dodge, +12 roll with impact, +8 pull punch, critical strike on a roll of a natural 18, 19, and 20, +12 save versus psionic attack, +12 save versus magic, +11 save versus poison and drugs.

Notes = The Armageddon Netherbeast is totally and completely loyal, devoted, and will defend and protect the Armageddon Creature from harm. It is a huge behemoth of a beast, with red, black, and grey hues, but with more emphasis on the reddish color, that seems to emulate blood flowing down from the body to the ground, but it is only an visual effect given off from the combined strength of the Netherbeast itself. It has six legs, and a 20 foot long blade-end (4 feet long blade) tail. It has two huge wings that appear like dragon wings. The length of a single wing is 110 feet in length and 64 feet in width, given the Armageddon Netherbeast a total length span of 220 feet. If there is a merger of only three Netherbeasts, it will reduce the size, attributes, P.P.E., I.S.P., damages, and powers by 25%. If there is only a merging of two, it is reduced to half. Like the Four Horsemen of Apocalypse, a single Netherbeast cannot turn into the Armageddon Netherbeast by itself.

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An interesting write-up.


~ N

[ZINO]

The Armageddon Netherbeast well done all of the stats

[Nekira Sudacne]

Umm, why is your armagedon beast about four times as powerful as the actual armageddon creature?

I sort of took the relationship aspects between humans and canines a bit, as well as the angles between dragons and humans (close friends type), and elaborated and embellished on how the senses, and other characteristics kind of stuck out. My thoughts focused on the more conventional destructive applications in comparison to the Armageddon Creature. I also wanted to give a better impression on the destruction capabilities of the Armageddon Netherbeast, and to provide a champion, a cohort of sort, to the Armageddon Creature, on a worldly scale. After all, I had to keep it within the lines of the turning chaos of the entire global view with the Armageddon theme.

Unpack that please? What you said makes no sense, and is lacking a number of nouns and seems to be based on assumptions others don't know you take. Please explain fully.

[csbioborg]

If you want god like spells check out the armagedon spells from the rifter
since he is a god he should be able to cast them without the permanent penalties.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I see. Well I can't say you didn't think it out, I simply think it's an exsample of flawed design. You've made the sidekick far deadlier than the master. It's one thing to want it to be frightening, but it shouldn't outshine the Armageddon creature to this degree. I mean really...you want it to be scarey, so 96,000 MDC? That's overdoing it, flat out, you didn't really justify it, at least not for this amount.

[ZINO]

how does it look like ?

[Nekira Sudacne]

I see. Well I can't say you didn't think it out, I simply think it's an exsample of flawed design. You've made the sidekick far deadlier than the master. It's one thing to want it to be frightening, but it shouldn't outshine the Armageddon creature to this degree. I mean really...you want it to be scarey, so 96,000 MDC? That's overdoing it, flat out, you didn't really justify it, at least not for this amount.

Oh, now I understand where you're concerned about in my stat. Allow me to go more further into detail then, . . .

Ra, The Sun God = 15,000 M.D.C. (armor already included)
Thoth, Lord of Wisdom = 40,000 M.D.C.
Isis, The All Mother & Warrior = 15,000 M.D.C. (armor already included)
Horus, The Great Sphinx = 5,500 M.D.C.
Bennu, The Phoenix = 6,000 M.D.C.
Apis, The Sacred Crow = 6,500 M.D.C.

Total M.D.C. = 88,000 M.D.C.

I hope this helps to clear up my explanation of "I wanted it to last" part, in the M.D.C. section.

I think you fell into the Video RPG boss flaw of thinking the only way to make a Big Boss last is to give it more HP than anything else in the game. There are far more effective means, that don't make it impossible for the fight to be anything but a daylong grindfest.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The flaw is you based the beast on being able to singlehandedly take on the most powerful patheon of gods in the entire megaverse, combined. And not the armageddon creature itself. it's attack dog is capable of taking on the most powerful patheon of the megaverse combined.

Tell me...assuming they do get past this beast, how much lamer by comparison will the armageddon creature itself seem? That's my overarching point, here.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The flaw is you based the beast on being able to singlehandedly take on the most powerful patheon of gods in the entire megaverse, combined. And not the armageddon creature itself. it's attack dog is capable of taking on the most powerful patheon of the megaverse combined.

Tell me...assuming they do get past this beast, how much lamer by comparison will the armageddon creature itself seem? That's my overarching point, here.

Your point of view missed my point of view, which is to present a challenge for the players. I ask you, as a player, could you take on this stat? Because if a player had to go up against, say, . . . Apsu, Of The Abyss, with a starting M.D.C. of 95,000, . . . and in time, will gain his full 250,000 M.D.C., . . . would this be considered a "flaw"?

As a player? Kinda hard to say isn't it, considering it really depends on how powerful my character and those of the rest of the party are. I can't say I've ever seen a party with a reasonable chance at it though.

Let me put it to you: if you consider that the average Rifts party is about 6 mercenaries with guns that do between 6d6-1d6*10 MD and maybe a level 5 shifter/ley line walker...how would you supposed the average party do this, without getting NPC's to do all the work for them?

[ZINO]

hey give me an SDF-3 with an army ( make that several armies) to distract no problem hit it from space wont see coming!!!! plus nuke missiles and anti matter plus a 3 mile asteroid we are done

[Nadrakas]

Emperor Ryu,

Given your Armageddon Netherbeast write-up, would you re-write the Armageddon Creature in order for it to be stronger than it's mount? The reason I ask is that each of the Four Horseman are much more powerful than their Netherbeasts, so do you think that the Armageddon Creature should be scaled up to an equivilant power-level so it isn't "out-shined" by it's mount?


~ N

[Nadrakas]

Emperor Ryu,

Given your Armageddon Netherbeast write-up, would you re-write the Armageddon Creature in order for it to be stronger than it's mount? The reason I ask is that each of the Four Horseman are much more powerful than their Netherbeasts, so do you think that the Armageddon Creature should be scaled up to an equivilant power-level so it isn't "out-shined" by it's mount?

I have noticed that myself, while I was making the stats for the Armageddon Netherbeast. I could create a scenario where the Armageddon Creature becomes even more powerful and adjust the stats accordingly to fit with my version of the Armageddon Netherbeast. Though, I deliberated to myself on the pros and cons about making them stay the same, switched, or being equals. Please note, being as individuals, doesn't necessarily mean that the Armageddon creation must conform in the same manner as the individuals they were. Otherwise, what's the point in forming together in the first place?

The Pros

1. Having them stay the way the Netherbeasts are in terms of being less than their masters, keeps the continuity given as individuals. It will make the players achieve an easier kill, in comparison to the Armageddon Creature.

2. Having them switch the power level comparison, helps to provide the surprise, challenge, and determination elements, for players to become motivated, and work together in a more cohesive manner to achieve a workable goal. Plus, it will give the players a sense of confidence and understanding the basic capabilities of these alien intelligences, and powerful evil dimensional beings are, to begin with, and gives an accurate depiction that evil uses stronger beings to serve their cause, because evil cannot do it alone.

3. Having them being equals, helps to bring out a balanced out and well rounded fight. Plus, it gives the players a good idea on what to expect when they face against the Armageddon Creature itself.

The Cons

1 - On a technicality, when combining the M.D.C.s of each Horseman, it comes to 38,991 M.D.C., while the Armageddon Creature is registered at a rounded number of 36,000 M.D.C. When doing the same for the Netherbeast, it will come to be 6,200 M.D.C. (7,400 M.D.C. at the most), but reduced to 4,000 M.D.C. (5,000 M.D.C. at the most). Players would find this amount too easy to reduce, and won't fit well with the theme of helping to bring Armageddon to the entire world. Plus, it will feel like the Armageddon Netherbeast is too similar to the thousands of robots, fanatic soldiers, and animated dead that have been summoned to attack everybody else, and not as the loyal Netherbeast they are, especially when it comes to their new appearance as the Armageddon Netherbeast. The players will automatic think, size doesn't matter on an Armageddon level based threat.

2 - The Armageddon Netherbeast will make the Armageddon Creature more of an easier target, if the players are aware of how much M.D.C. it has in comparison to the Armageddon Netherbeast. The Armageddon Netherbeast will prove to be too much of a nuisance, and much difficult to kill. May end up killing more player characters than the GM anticipated, in the first place.

3 - Having the Armageddon Netherbeast equal to the Armageddon Creature, would make things too predictable, in terms of M.D.C. reducing. It will also eliminate the perception of individuality that the Armageddon Creature stands for, and the Armageddon Netherbeast's role in protecting its master. Players would feel a void of uncertainty, in regards to the purpose of them being created equal in the first place.

As presented here, I found myself wondering which of these three perspectives would best fit the overall goal, not just to fit the Armageddon theme, but to give the "challenge" for the players. Thus, I went with number 2 option.

If this version of Armageddon Netherbeast were used in a Campaign then I would suggest making the Armageddon Creature stronger, preferably equivalent to each other. This doesn't mean making the Armageddon Netherbeast weaker either. As an example, when comparing the HP of the total MDC of the Four Horseman to their Netherbeasts we get a ratio of (38,991 / 6,200) 6.29. When we apply this to the MDC total of 96,000 we get (96,000 x 6.29) 603,840 MDC.

Wow...that is a lot of MDC. I could see this version as an "End of the Megaverse" story. Perhaps the Power of the Armageddon Creature/Netherbeast is "enhanced" by the Old Ones as they begin to Awake; sort of "wipe the slate clean, so the Old Ones can start over" scenario. Of course the Armageddon Creature would need to be able to cause massive damage on a truly Epic Scale (This part would be plot...), but powerful opponents would still have-to-have a chance of defeating it -- always a delicate walking act, and one that isn't usually solved by Combat alone (Might need to put together a special artifact that was divided at the beginning of time due to it's "Power" or something similar).

Hmmm...Evil thoughts....


~ N

[Nekira Sudacne]

As a player? Kinda hard to say isn't it, considering it really depends on how powerful my character and those of the rest of the party are. I can't say I've ever seen a party with a reasonable chance at it though.

Let me put it to you: if you consider that the average Rifts party is about 6 mercenaries with guns that do between 6d6-1d6*10 MD and maybe a level 5 shifter/ley line walker...how would you supposed the average party do this, without getting NPC's to do all the work for them?

Would you find it challenging as a player though, to figure out the methods, in taking out this stat to begin with?

That's the fun of it though, to figure out how to take the stat out, if you ask me. There are a number of ways it could be done, especially when it comes to myself and my group's playing experiences. I could offer several plausible avenues that players can take to meet the challenge, but that would mean, me taking the fun out of it for everybody else. Plus, the needed emphasis in rolling natural 20s gives player characters a distinct advantage during combat. GMs have the equal enough favor in this regard as well, but more to the players, because there is only one GM versus 2 or more in the group.

Except that as a player, you have no idea how powerful it is. You could cut it's power in half and your players would never know the difference. Also: I think your wrong. The fun in the game is not figuring out how to twink until you can kill something that kills gods for breakfast, the fun is in well...playing the game.

Suffice it to say if you were crazy enough to put something like that up on the tabel, I as a player would quit your game on the spot. And this is the Munchkin Fairy talking.

And it's not because I can't figure out how to kill it, I can think of several ways as well. It's that I won't, beause it's not fun to go that far out of your way to do rediculous things in character.

There's a balance between too little combat and too much. That's too much combat. Not because of the power, just because of the long, boring grindfrest it would be. Sure, you CAN get stuff to bring it down, but what'd be the point? it's not fun to do so.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Well, I'm personally aginst that it should have more MDC than the Armageddon creature. On the other hand I always felt the AC got stiffed. I'd go with about 30,000 for the beast and up the actural Armageddon creature to 80,000

[Nadrakas]

Well, I'm personally aginst that it should have more MDC than the Armageddon creature. On the other hand I always felt the AC got stiffed. I'd go with about 30,000 for the beast and up the actural Armageddon creature to 80,000

(Nod) Agreed. Sort of felt like a "mini-boss" that you defeat before getting to the really Big Boss...except that it was the really Big Boss and it was "anti-climactic." (Sigh) If anything, the least of the Four-Horseman should be stated at that power level. Afterall, Major Powers from around the world are sending forces to take these things down before the World is destroyed...

...Hmmm....a re-write of the Four-Horseman, their Netherbeasts & the Armageddon Creature/Armageddon Netherbeast might be in order...


~ N

[Nekira Sudacne]

Well, I'm personally aginst that it should have more MDC than the Armageddon creature. On the other hand I always felt the AC got stiffed. I'd go with about 30,000 for the beast and up the actural Armageddon creature to 80,000

Cool.

Will you be creating a stat for your Armageddon Netherbeast for posting here?

Not really. Already beat the four horsemen in the only game where they're going to feature, so no need to bother. I don't have the time.

[Nadrakas]

(Nod) Agreed. Sort of felt like a "mini-boss" that you defeat before getting to the really Big Boss...except that it was the really Big Boss and it was "anti-climactic." (Sigh) If anything, the least of the Four-Horseman should be stated at that power level. Afterall, Major Powers from around the world are sending forces to take these things down before the World is destroyed...

...Hmmm....a re-write of the Four-Horseman, their Netherbeasts & the Armageddon Creature/Armageddon Netherbeast might be in order...

But on a technicality, the Armageddon Netherbeast is bigger than the Armageddon Creature. Just compare them individually when their all separate, before they form together.

I didn't see a size given for your version of the Armageddon Netherbeast. I actually made a big mistake when I did the measurements for my version of the Armageddon Netherbeast, "Doom" (I'll explain shortly).

Now, note, each of the "normal" Netherbeasts are larger than their riders (Death, Famine, Pestilence, and War). Below are the sizes for comparison:

Death: 12 feet (3.6 meters)/13 feet (3.9 meters) with Crown of Thorns.
-- Deaths' Netherbeast: 14 feet (4.3 meters) at the shoulder and 30 feet (9.1 meters) long from snout to tail. Eight tons.
Famine: 10 feet (3 meters) tall
-- Famines' Netherbeast: 14 feet (4.3 meters) at the the shoulder and 30 feet (9.1 meters) long from snout to tail. Eight tons.
Pestilence: 10 feet (3 meters) tall.
-- Pestilences' Netherbeast: 14 feet (4.3 meters) tall at the shoulder and 30 feet (9.1 meters) long from snout to tail. Eight tons.
War: 12 feet (3 meters) tall. Can vary from six feet (1.8 meters) to 24 feet (7.3 meters) tall, in one foot increments (0.3 meters).
-- Wars' Netherbeast: 14 feet (4.3 meters) at the shoulders and 30 feet (9.1 meters) long from snout to tail. Eight tons. Wars Netherbeast has no ability to change it's size, which I personally think was an oversight.

Height Correction: Take the average Height of the Four Horseman ((12 + 10 + 10 + 12) / 4) = 11 feet (3.35) and the average height of the "normal" Netherbeast, which is 14 feet. Divide 14 by 11 (14 / 11) to get an average ratio of 1.27. If you do the math you'll find that the height of "Doom" isn't exactly 1.27. So, in order to correct this mistake, take the Height of the Armageddon Creature (60 feet/18 meters) and multiply it by 1.27 (60 * 1.27), which gives "Dooms" new Height as 76.2 feet (23.23 meters).

Length Correction: When determining the Length, we again turn to the Four Horseman. Take the "normal" Netherbeasts Length of 30 feet (9.1 meters) and divide by the "average" Height of 11 feet (3.35). This yields a ratio of (30 / 11) 2.73. Multiplying "Dooms" height of 76.2 feet (23.23 meters) by 2.73 (76.2 * 2.73) results in a Body Length of 208 feet (63.4 meters). Now, I wanted a tail that was half the body length...so (208 / 2) gives us a Tail length of 104 feet (31.7 meters). Adding the Body length (208 feet) and Tail length (104 feet) gives (208 + 104) a total Body length of 312 feet (95.1 meters).

Weight Correction: Reworking the weight, I used the length to determine the ratio as it would give a larger multiplier and thus a heavier and more powerful looking creature than using height. So, the total length of "Doom" is 312 feet, divided by the average length of the "normal" Netherbeasts of 30 feet (312 / 30), giving a ratio of 10.4. So, the "normal" Netherbeasts weight of 8 tons is multiplied by 10.4 (8 * 10.4) giving a Weight of 83.2 tons (Slightly more than the original 80 tons).

So, here are the final numbers after reworking the Height, Length (Body/Tail) and Weight of "Doom" the Armageddon Netherbeast.
Armageddon Creature: 60 feet (18 meters) tall. No weight given.
Armageddon Netherbeast: 76.2 feet (23.23 meters) at the shoulders and 208 feet (63.4 meters) long, with an 104 feet (31.7 meters) long tail, for a total length of 312 feet (95.1 meters) from the tip of its snout to the end of its tail. 83.2 tons.

I'm all for a "Second Coming" in Africa.

I would like to see a Rifts Africa 2 first. A Book that would provide more in-depth information on other locations, cities, kingdoms, magic, technology, etc that is there. The continent has so much more to offer, and a second book that provides setting material would be most welcome.

As for a return of the Four Horseman, I don't think it is in the cards for Rifts Earth. In Canon they were defeated, which means each of them can't leave their "Hellish Dimension for anywhere from 1-6 Thousand Years...and can't return to Rifts Earth for at least 50,000 years.


~ N

[Nekira Sudacne]

Not really. Already beat the four horsemen in the only game where they're going to feature, so no need to bother. I don't have the time.

I heard somewhere on this forum, that the Four Horsemen and their Netherbeasts, are from another dimension, in one of the newer dimensional books. Perhaps you and your group might run into them again, in that dimension? Or that has already been done?

No. They have their own created dimension as do most deific beings. But there is no chance of going there by accident.

[Nadrakas]

Ooops...sorry, missed the size.


~ N