Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

[Natasha]

For the case of a payload fired from a gun, the net external force exerted on a payload is everywhere negative. If the muzzle velocity of the gun is larger than the terminal velocity of the payload, then the payload will immediately approach its terminal velocity, continue to slow, and later be stopped altogether by gravity. At this moment another propulsion starts from zero. Rockets give the spaceship acceleration in the desired direction throughout the flight. Multiple stages remediate terminal velocity issues. In a world where handwavium is infinite, it just comes down to what the G.M. determines best for their game.

[taalismn]

Would the Phoenix Empire bother re-opening the Suez Canal? They've got fliers after all, and they;re not going to make revenue with international passage....
Unless the Empire wants a moat between them and what lies on the Sinai, or just wants a constant manual labor death-sentence to punish slaves, I can't see the Suez remaining operational.

[SolCannibal]

Would the Phoenix Empire bother re-opening the Suez Canal? They've got fliers after all, and they;re not going to make revenue with international passage....
Unless the Empire wants a moat between them and what lies on the Sinai, or just wants a constant manual labor death-sentence to punish slaves, I can't see the Suez remaining operational.

Considering the Sinai is the one part of contemporary Egypt and neighbors the Phoenix Empire does not possess, who knows, a moat might be desirable...

But yeah, for the Canal to be worth re-opening as a passage, there to be at least some nations and city-states in both Mediterranean and Indian Ocean for one to trade with and them between each other.

That said, circunavigating Africa would require dealing and/or fighting with Altanteans and Horune, not to mention Kharkon's Black Fleet in South America among others, some pretty good incentives for seeking alternatives paths, even for other monster nations...

[taalismn]

[

That said, circunavigating Africa would require dealing and/or fighting with Altanteans and Horune, not to mention Kharkon's Black Fleet in South America among others, some pretty good incentives for seeking alternatives paths, even for other monster nations...

Without knowing what the situation is in India(though isn't there supposed to be a rumored kingdom of aquatic demons off the Indian coast?), I have to wonder if there's anybody in that region who'd trade with the Empire.
Heck, have the PE start putting effort into building a new Canal and Indian Ocean port, and let the rumors fly about the Pharaoh having found allies/trade partners that require easier access to his lands. Could be a campaign adventure to find out if it's true and what impact it might have on the balance of power in the region.

[SolCannibal]

That said, circunavigating Africa would require dealing and/or fighting with Altanteans and Horune, not to mention Kharkon's Black Fleet in South America among others, some pretty good incentives for seeking alternatives paths, even for other monster nations...

Without knowing what the situation is in India(though isn't there supposed to be a rumored kingdom of aquatic demons off the Indian coast?), I have to wonder if there's anybody in that region who'd trade with the Empire.

Yes, the fact we have almost nothing on that part of the world calls for extensive world-building to even start. There's Hiranyapura, the dimension-hopping underwater city of the Daityas, that might or not be in the seas of Rifts Earth, mentioned in Pantheons of the Megaverse.

Heck, have the PE start putting effort into building a new Canal and Indian Ocean port, and let the rumors fly about the Pharaoh having found allies/trade partners that require easier access to his lands. Could be a campaign adventure to find out if it's true and what impact it might have on the balance of power in the region.

Could certainly make a good starting point for a pretty badass campaign, possibly mixed up with maybe the NGR, Camelot or other groups investing into supporting local powers or forming bulwark states as a kind of answer to PE interference with the Gargoyles.

[taalismn]

[
Could certainly make a good starting point for a pretty badass campaign, possibly mixed up with maybe the NGR, Camelot or other groups investing into supporting local powers or forming bulwark states as a kind of answer to PE interference with the Gargoyles.

The PE's already getting support from Atlantis, so the possibility of Rama-Set getting material support from ANOTHER region, and one the powers you mentioned cannot easily reach or act in oughta scare some people. Getting as much info as they can from people who joined the Gathering of Champions and pumping them for ANY information about Africa, especially the eastern coast, might be one of the new initiatives of NGR milintel, and a possible hook to send characters exploring(with NGR backing) in the region.

[SolCannibal]

Could certainly make a good starting point for a pretty badass campaign, possibly mixed up with maybe the NGR, Camelot or other groups investing into supporting local powers or forming bulwark states as a kind of answer to PE interference with the Gargoyles.

The PE's already getting support from Atlantis, so the possibility of Rama-Set getting material support from ANOTHER region, and one the powers you mentioned cannot easily reach or act in oughta scare some people. Getting as much info as they can from people who joined the Gathering of Champions and pumping them for ANY information about Africa, especially the eastern coast, might be one of the new initiatives of NGR milintel, and a possible hook to send characters exploring(with NGR backing) in the region.

Depending on how things turned out in one's version of the Gathering of Heroes, i could see either the NGR or Camelot investing in making a beachead in Africa, for the sake of helping to organize local opposition against local monstrous powers, fomenting dissension in the Phoenix Empire, among a bunch of other plots. Pretty good set-up for a campaign with lots of war, intrigue, diplomacy, exploration and then some, specially if the egyptian gods decide to throw in too, complicating it all even further.

[ShadowLogan]

Would the Phoenix Empire bother re-opening the Suez Canal? They've got fliers after all, and they;re not going to make revenue with international passage....
Unless the Empire wants a moat between them and what lies on the Sinai, or just wants a constant manual labor death-sentence to punish slaves, I can't see the Suez remaining operational.

Not to put a damper, but its a moot point. According to various maps (WB7 and WB4 for example) there is a large water way that connects the Med. and Red Seas.

That said I could see the PE as an Altantean Trade port/base that Splogorth/Horune operate from. They collect the goods and bring them to the PE for transfer to Atlantis.

[glitterboy2098]

actually i could see both the NGR and the british kingdoms (there are more than just camelot you know)

the NGR to trade, resulting in an enclave.. and the British kingdoms (especially camelot) having small forces present 'on crusade'.. which could cause all sorts of chaos, since the major kingdoms of great britain don't all get along.

actually, you could have Cyberknights (and/or Mystic knights) running around as well the same way.

and i still like the idea of columbia or one of the silver river republics having opened up contact as well.. geographically it would fit that they could get ships back and forth to africa, and it would allow for africa to have a nice bit of variety.

[SolCannibal]

actually i could see both the NGR and the british kingdoms (there are more than just camelot you know)

True, but Camelot is the one that gets (repeatedly) mentioned as occasionally reaching beyond the Isles.

Ah, decided to look for some references to still barely described places in old books and came across this in WB3 (and repeated in WB8):

There are 11 known trees in England, four in Scotland, five in Ireland, seven in France, three in Greece, two in Belgium, two in Switzerland, two in Germany, and one each in northern Norway, Poland, Austria, Italy, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Kenya, and the African Congo. Additional trees may exist in other locations, especially in Africa and Europe.

I do remember the stunted one in Egypt and one in the Great Congo in WB4, but the Libyan, Algerian, Kenyan one are (kind of) new to me...

Incidentally, it just crossed my mind that with their empathic nature among other things, it might be pretty possible that some degree of communication, exchange and mutual support occurs between the multiple Millenium Trees and their respective communities of druids, dragons and other beings. Damn, the (metaphorical, afaik) tendrils of the Chiang-Ku dragons all over the Gathering of Heroes already make a pretty good argument for it in fact.

Also from WB3: "The (blood) druids also have a growing presence in Morocco, Egypt and much of northern Africa. Individual blood druids and small loyal groups of adventurers travel throughout all of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, India, Atlantis and, within the last 15 years (as of 103 PA), North America (mainly the east coast and Magic Zone)."

Thought it was worth bringing up as potential fodder people might like playing with.

[glitterboy2098]

given that Millennium trees usually have portals on them, those able to talk to the trees (or convince druids and the like to do so) might actually be able to use them to transit between different parts of the world.

[Warmaster40k]

Remember that iron heart industries from Mercenaries fled america and were trying to set up shop in some part of africa. Plus Atlantis' standing with the Phoenix Empire might be seriously strained once Splynn discovers that Rama Set did summon the Four Horsemen. That alone was a threat to the world and possibly multiple dimensions. Splynn maybe a dimension conquering squid monster but profit is the name of the game, and based on what he is doing about the minion war, well... the Mad Dragons days maybe numbered.

[glitterboy2098]

Remember that iron heart industries from Mercenaries fled america and were trying to set up shop in some part of africa. Plus Atlantis' standing with the Phoenix Empire might be seriously strained once Splynn discovers that Rama Set did summon the Four Horsemen. That alone was a threat to the world and possibly multiple dimensions. Splynn maybe a dimension conquering squid monster but profit is the name of the game, and based on what he is doing about the minion war, well... the Mad Dragons days maybe numbered.

actually IIRC they hadn't picked a new place yet.. they had copies of plans, but were mostly operating as anti-CS pirates

[SolCannibal]

given that Millennium trees usually have portals on them, those able to talk to the trees (or convince druids and the like to do so) might actually be able to use them to transit between different parts of the world.

Yes, so the idea of the multiple druid communities related to these Millenium Trees maintaining a degree of communication, maybe even actual coordination, should be reasonably feasible conceit to explore in games. Add to that the three "forgotten" Millenium Trees in Libya, Algeria & Kenya and we may have something of a more interesting opposition to the Phoenix Empire, among other things.

("Libya" being technically Phoenix' Empire territory and "Algeria" & "Kenya" in different sides of its borders. "Kenya" in particular also borders Ethiopia and so might have to deal with stuff coming from Wormwood, the Tree of Darkness and other places through Lalibella).

As an aside, i have some thoughts about where to locate one of those trees. Algeria has two national parks/non-arid areas, the Ahaggar park in the Hoggar mountains and the Tassili n'Ajjer plateau - that not only gets mentioned in WB4, but is mentioned as a haunted place full of entities, poltergeists and other such beings avoided by mostly everybody, read, perfect cover for a Millenium Tree and a community of druids & critters.

Any suggestions of where to locate the others?

Remember that iron heart industries from Mercenaries fled america and were trying to set up shop in some part of africa. Plus Atlantis' standing with the Phoenix Empire might be seriously strained once Splynn discovers that Rama Set did summon the Four Horsemen. That alone was a threat to the world and possibly multiple dimensions. Splynn maybe a dimension conquering squid monster but profit is the name of the game, and based on what he is doing about the minion war, well... the Mad Dragons days maybe numbered.

actually IIRC they hadn't picked a new place yet.. they had copies of plans, but were mostly operating as anti-CS pirates

Truth be told in my own games i have taken it a step further and basically transformed New Kenora into Coalition's version of Ireland during the Troubles, with far more attrition and suffering than they ever imagined possible, specially with their personnel difficulties due to the effects of the Tolkeen War.

[SolCannibal]

On a little aside though most certainly related to the subject of reworking the Africa Worldbook...

What are your thoughts, feelings and opinions about RCCs like the Agogwe, Ramen, Tautons, Phoenixi, Crocodillians or Tree People?
How about Pygmy Hunter & Shaman, African Priest, Medicine Man, Rain Maker & Witch, what's good or garbage, what would be better off erased, what you think might be somewhat salvageable?

(leaving Necromancers & Mind Bleeder out because those two are in a much better situation than the others, have received attention and updates in later books and so on already)

And speaking of dinosaurs.... scaly or feathered?

To be precise, the evidence of feathered dinos seems to apply to some families but not others, so having either "reptilian" and "bird-like" dinos* in a region, or both for maximum variety/weirdness, is totally valid i guess.

But anyway and taking this rambling a little further, while popularly associated with sauropods by cryptid-seekers for decades (if not centuries), the Mokole-mbembe doesn't have to be one and could just as well be a creature of magic from another dimension or somesuch, what could go a long way toward explaining its elusiveness, might be said.

*Incidentally pterosaurs (that are technically not dinosaurs) are neither, possessing pycnofibers, a kind of structure that would closer to mammal hairs/fur, while possessing a number of characteristics all its own.

[taalismn]

Would the Phoenix Empire bother re-opening the Suez Canal? They've got fliers after all, and they;re not going to make revenue with international passage....
Unless the Empire wants a moat between them and what lies on the Sinai, or just wants a constant manual labor death-sentence to punish slaves, I can't see the Suez remaining operational.

Not to put a damper, but its a moot point. According to various maps (WB7 and WB4 for example) there is a large water way that connects the Med. and Red Seas.

That said I could see the PE as an Altantean Trade port/base that Splogorth/Horune operate from. They collect the goods and bring them to the PE for transfer to Atlantis.

Dang.....


Massive geological subsidence just killed a campaign idea....

[SolCannibal]

Would the Phoenix Empire bother re-opening the Suez Canal? They've got fliers after all, and they;re not going to make revenue with international passage....
Unless the Empire wants a moat between them and what lies on the Sinai, or just wants a constant manual labor death-sentence to punish slaves, I can't see the Suez remaining operational.

Not to put a damper, but its a moot point. According to various maps (WB7 and WB4 for example) there is a large water way that connects the Med. and Red Seas.

That said I could see the PE as an Altantean Trade port/base that Splogorth/Horune operate from. They collect the goods and bring them to the PE for transfer to Atlantis.

Dang.....


Massive geological subsidence just killed a campaign idea....

Not exactly - depends on the precision of the data of european powers. Conflicts and expeditions have been initiated based in faulty or incomplete data more than once in the past...

[glitterboy2098]

And speaking of dinosaurs.... scaly or feathered?

To be precise, the evidence of feathered dinos seems to apply to some families but not others, so having either "reptilian" and "bird-like" dinos* in a region, or both for maximum variety/weirdness, is totally valid i guess.

well Africa had more 'scalies'.. the Iguanodonts, Brachiosaurs, Carcharodont's, Spinosaurs, suchomimids, ceratosaurs, kentrosaurs,etc.
the only feathered ones so far are the Heterodontosaurs and (maybe) the Allosaurs.


there are a lot that fall into a "who knows' though..

But anyway and taking this rambling a little further, while popularly associated with sauropods by cryptid-seekers for decades (if not centuries), the Mokole-mbembe doesn't have to be one and could just as well be a creature of magic from another dimension or somesuch, what could go a long way toward explaining its elusiveness, might be said.

that one is actually already in WB4. there are two actually.. the first is a Erythrosuchus, A triassic Archosaur.
the 2nd a Massospondylus, a Prosauropod (a smaller Triassic ancestor of the massive long necks of the Jurassic.)
see pg129

[SolCannibal]

But anyway and taking this rambling a little further, while popularly associated with sauropods by cryptid-seekers for decades (if not centuries), the Mokole-mbembe doesn't have to be one and could just as well be a creature of magic from another dimension or somesuch, what could go a long way toward explaining its elusiveness, might be said.

that one is actually already in WB4. there are two actually.. the first is a Erythrosuchus, A triassic Archosaur.
the 2nd a Massospondylus, a Prosauropod (a smaller Triassic ancestor of the massive long necks of the Jurassic.)
see pg129

Yes, but that is the kind of case where confirmation bias leaves room for questioning and one to rework/update an idea. "Or that one can find such dinossaurs in Rifts Earth's Africa now doesn't on itself mean they are actually the ones that inspired the Golden Age's legends." Chiang-Ku and some other draconic beings might fit the bill too, for an example.

In fact the varied descriptions - sauropod-like, rhinoceros-like, elephant-like, giant reptile akin to iguana or monitor lizard, spirit being, among others - make it quite possible for Mokele-mbembe to be either something with a varied/fluid shape, like a Boschala, or a number of related creatures under a umbrella descriptor, like "dragon".

Without going into trollish ideas like magical/psychic dinossaurs with the power to turn immaterial, invisible, change size or use similar diversionary/stealth tactics that is.

[taalismn]

[
Yes, but that is the kind of case where confirmation bias leaves room for questioning and one to rework/update an idea. "Or that now one can find such dinossaurs in Rifts Earth's Africa now doesn't mean they are actually the ones that inspired the Golden Age's legends." Chiang-Ku and some other draconic beings might fit the bill too, for an example.

In fact the varied descriptions - sauropod-like, rhinoceros-like, elephant-like, giant reptile akin to iguana or monitor lizard, spirit being, among others - make it quite possible for Mokele-mbembe to be either something with a varied/fluid shape, like a Boschala, or a number of related creatures under a umbrella descriptor, like "dragon".

Without going into trollish ideas like magical/psychic dinossaurs with the power to turn immaterial, invisible, change size or use similar diversionary/stealth tactics that is.: wink:

I favor them being all be visual manifestations of one polymorphic extradimensional critter, an ectoplasmic boojum like a Haunting Entity. A cosmic sludge monster no more substantial than shaving cream in the eras of low ambient PPE, but rather more substantial now.

[SolCannibal]

Yes, but that is the kind of case where confirmation bias leaves room for questioning and one to rework/update an idea. "Or that now one can find such dinossaurs in Rifts Earth's Africa now doesn't mean they are actually the ones that inspired the Golden Age's legends." Chiang-Ku and some other draconic beings might fit the bill too, for an example.

In fact the varied descriptions - sauropod-like, rhinoceros-like, elephant-like, giant reptile akin to iguana or monitor lizard, spirit being, among others - make it quite possible for Mokele-mbembe to be either something with a varied/fluid shape, like a Boschala, or a number of related creatures under a umbrella descriptor, like "dragon".

Without going into trollish ideas like magical/psychic dinossaurs with the power to turn immaterial, invisible, change size or use similar diversionary/stealth tactics that is.: wink:

I favor them being all be visual manifestations of one polymorphic extradimensional critter, an ectoplasmic boojum like a Haunting Entity. A cosmic sludge monster no more substantial than shaving cream in the eras of low ambient PPE, but rather more substantial now.

It does go better with covering all bases/variants in one package while giving an effective weird/eerie tone for sure. Maybe some sort of psychic/ectoplasmic dragon, just to cover a few more fields along the way. Though i'm a little partial to also having psychic inviso-brontos, just for the added fun factor.

[ShadowLogan]

It occurs to me that one way to "improve" Africa setting w/o necessarily playing the recton card might be to have a "cataclsymic event" that brings in a new regional player in a similar manner to:
-the 4 Japanese Cities or Tundra Ranger (both time shifted)
-Atlantis (Rifted in essentially, though IIRC TA/Amazon Manoa might also qualify)
-Naut'yll or Amaki (dimensional colonization, it doesn't have to be aliens, it could be human D-Bees)

[taalismn]

[

It does go better with covering all bases/variants in one package while giving an effective weird/eerie tone for sure. Maybe some sort of psychic/ectoplasmic dragon, just to cover a few more fields along the way. Though i'm a little partial to also having psychic inviso-brontos, just for the added fun factor.

Seeing those trees tossed aside by something invisible coming in your direction tends to have a rather spooking effect....

[SolCannibal]

It does go better with covering all bases/variants in one package while giving an effective weird/eerie tone for sure. Maybe some sort of psychic/ectoplasmic dragon, just to cover a few more fields along the way. Though i'm a little partial to also having psychic inviso-brontos, just for the added fun factor.

Seeing those trees tossed aside by something invisible coming in your direction tends to have a rather spooking effect....

Indeed.

Unrelated question: 10 million being a little too big a population for a dying race with barely more than 2.2 million remnants across the whole Megaverse, what do you people think could make a good alternative/substitute for the Tautons in the Phoenix Empire population breakdown?

[Suicycho]

El Magico wrote an awesome netbook for Rifts Middle East. I’m not sure if he posts on here anymore but he is on FB and if you messaged him he might send you a pdf.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

El Magico wrote an awesome netbook for Rifts Middle East. I’m not sure if he posts on here anymore but he is on FB and if you messaged him he might send you a pdf.

Do you have his contact info?

[SolCannibal]

Would the Phoenix Empire bother re-opening the Suez Canal? They've got fliers after all, and they;re not going to make revenue with international passage....
Unless the Empire wants a moat between them and what lies on the Sinai, or just wants a constant manual labor death-sentence to punish slaves, I can't see the Suez remaining operational.

Not to put a damper, but its a moot point. According to various maps (WB7 and WB4 for example) there is a large water way that connects the Med. and Red Seas.

That said I could see the PE as an Altantean Trade port/base that Splogorth/Horune operate from. They collect the goods and bring them to the PE for transfer to Atlantis.

But now comes to mind a funny question: who would control the "Suez Straight" considering it's at best in the border of the PE, if not outright outside it based on what little we get through the maps?

Incidentally, the existence of this passage could be a plot hook in more ways than one as, going by some info in the history of the area, the tendency that seems to appear would be of the Ishtmus growing and choking the passage through silt accumulation and such, meaning something major (through enviromental changes or something's intervention) actually happened for things to turn out like that.

[taalismn]

[
Incidentally, the existence of this passage could be a plot hook in more ways than one as, going by some info in the history of the area, the tendency that seems to appear would be of the Ishtmus growing and choking the passage through silt accumulation and such, meaning something major (through enviromental changes or something's intervention) actually happened for things to turn out like that.

Have the east side of the strait dominated by a stationary, but constant, upwelling sandstorm. The best mages, even Elemental ones, in the PE can't figure out what's behind it, only that the region is dominated by chaotic magic. Anybody going into it or trying to fly over it disappears, never to be seen again(?)
Rather than appear afraid of it, Rama-set publicly declares that it's part of the natural defenses of his realm and he acts as if it's alway been there and that he's not concerned in the least about it. Privately, though....

[SolCannibal]

[
Incidentally, the existence of this passage could be a plot hook in more ways than one as, going by some info in the history of the area, the tendency that seems to appear would be of the Ishtmus growing and choking the passage through silt accumulation and such, meaning something major (through enviromental changes or something's intervention) actually happened for things to turn out like that.

Have the east side of the strait dominated by a stationary, but constant, upwelling sandstorm. The best mages, even Elemental ones, in the PE can't figure out what's behind it, only that the region is dominated by chaotic magic. Anybody going into it or trying to fly over it disappears, never to be seen again(?)
Rather than appear afraid of it, Rama-set publicly declares that it's part of the natural defenses of his realm and he acts as if it's alway been there and that he's not concerned in the least about it. Privately, though....

Keeps things mostly undefined the way they were, while lampshading the mysteriousness through a macguffin/plot hook. Good, good.


As an aside, a little thing that has crossed my mind is that the PE's population breakdown can serve as something of a sample of "communities/ethnicities/etc" found possibly not only in the Empire but neighboring areas, specially where no clear landmarks to define borders actually exist.
Peppering the region with "minor" nations, tribal alliances strategically placed city-states ruled by one or more of those monster, D-bee races in any combination could make room for some fun mixes and such.

PS: When i use the Phoenix Empire in my games, i'm going to replace the Gallu Bulls with the "Space Minotaurs" from Anvil Galaxy. Having one specific race of greater demons as 5% of the Empire's population feels like serious overkill, so having a powered down substitute is nice. Tautons should go too, at least in the numbers given. 10 million is a huge number and contradicts the RCC's own background to boot (just 100.000 of them would be a suitable impressive chunk of their people in one place). Any other races scorpion-tailed crocodile-people that i could use around?

[Suicycho]

El Magico wrote an awesome netbook for Rifts Middle East. I’m not sure if he posts on here anymore but he is on FB and if you messaged him he might send you a pdf.

Do you have his contact info?

I do not. But I know someone who may. I will message them and have them inquire.

Edit: My friend sent me the link. I PMed you.

[taalismn]

Hell, have some mysterious biblical-level plague sweep through the Tauton community.. magic doesn't touch the stuff and ironically the mass concentrations of the Tautons in the PE allows the stuff to spread like wildfire through their population before the plague is contained/burned out, but not before reaping a HIDEOUS toll of them. If they weren't dying before, they're threatened now.
The aftermath should have a hard effect on the PE; so many dead, and questions start arising; where did it come from, why was it so fatal, why couldn't the science and magic of the Pharaoh touch it? Was it just an unlucky random happening, or a deliberate attack? And if the latter, by who, against who? The Tautons? The Pharaoh? And what's going to be done about it?
Meanwhile, there's a sudden glut of Tauton body parts(and whole bodies) in the necromantic black market. There are allegations that members of Pharaoh Rama-set's administration have a hand in the desecration of Tauton bodies, accusations the Pharaoh is being less than clear in denying. There's also rumors of zombie or ghostly Tauton haunting some quarters of the PE cities...or entire dead communities in the desert. Another distraction for Pharaoh's armies to investigate and deal with.
This could all lead to some Tauton becoming mighty upset with Pharaoh Rama-set, as well as Pharaoh looking for another species to become new minions and plug the big gaping hole in the Empire's labor pool and economy. Will he seek to enslave new help, or offer generous terms(with wealth confiscated from dead Tauton households?) for anybody willing to join him? If surviving Tauton start fleeing the Empire, seeking plague-free lands, will the Pharoah let them go, or try to stop them?

This scenario whittles down the Tauton and puts a temporary check on the PE, while making it a hotbed of adventure hooks and intrigues.

[SolCannibal]

Hell, have some mysterious biblical-level plague sweep through the Tauton community.. magic doesn't touch the stuff and ironically the mass concentrations of the Tautons in the PE allows the stuff to spread like wildfire through their population before the plague is contained/burned out, but not before reaping a HIDEOUS toll of them. If they weren't dying before, they're threatened now.
The aftermath should have a hard effect on the PE; so many dead, and questions start arising; where did it come from, why was it so fatal, why couldn't the science and magic of the Pharaoh touch it? Was it just an unlucky random happening, or a deliberate attack? And if the latter, by who, against who? The Tautons? The Pharaoh? And what's going to be done about it?
Meanwhile, there's a sudden glut of Tauton body parts(and whole bodies) in the necromantic black market. There are allegations that members of Pharaoh Rama-set's administration have a hand in the desecration of Tauton bodies, accusations the Pharaoh is being less than clear in denying. There's also rumors of zombie or ghostly Tauton haunting some quarters of the PE cities...or entire dead communities in the desert. Another distraction for Pharaoh's armies to investigate and deal with.
This could all lead to some Tauton becoming mighty upset with Pharaoh Rama-set, as well as Pharaoh looking for another species to become new minions and plug the big gaping hole in the Empire's labor pool and economy. Will he seek to enslave new help, or offer generous terms(with wealth confiscated from dead Tauton households?) for anybody willing to join him? If surviving Tauton start fleeing the Empire, seeking plague-free lands, will the Pharoah let them go, or try to stop them?

This scenario whittles down the Tauton and puts a temporary check on the PE, while making it a hotbed of adventure hooks and intrigues.

While it is a great plot device indeed, it requires recognizing those 10 million Tautons as anything beside a glaring editing mistake, what i'm not exactly happy with either. Decisions, decisions....

[taalismn]

[

While it is a great plot device indeed, it requires recognizing those 10 million Tautons as anything beside a glaring editing mistake, what i'm not exactly happy with either. Decisions, decisions....

"You may write them up, but we can knock them down. Think of it as evolution in action."

[Khanibal]

Hell, have some mysterious biblical-level plague sweep through the Tauton community.. magic doesn't touch the stuff and ironically the mass concentrations of the Tautons in the PE allows the stuff to spread like wildfire through their population before the plague is contained/burned out, but not before reaping a HIDEOUS toll of them. If they weren't dying before, they're threatened now.
The aftermath should have a hard effect on the PE; so many dead, and questions start arising; where did it come from, why was it so fatal, why couldn't the science and magic of the Pharaoh touch it? Was it just an unlucky random happening, or a deliberate attack? And if the latter, by who, against who? The Tautons? The Pharaoh? And what's going to be done about it?
Meanwhile, there's a sudden glut of Tauton body parts(and whole bodies) in the necromantic black market. There are allegations that members of Pharaoh Rama-set's administration have a hand in the desecration of Tauton bodies, accusations the Pharaoh is being less than clear in denying. There's also rumors of zombie or ghostly Tauton haunting some quarters of the PE cities...or entire dead communities in the desert. Another distraction for Pharaoh's armies to investigate and deal with.
This could all lead to some Tauton becoming mighty upset with Pharaoh Rama-set, as well as Pharaoh looking for another species to become new minions and plug the big gaping hole in the Empire's labor pool and economy. Will he seek to enslave new help, or offer generous terms(with wealth confiscated from dead Tauton households?) for anybody willing to join him? If surviving Tauton start fleeing the Empire, seeking plague-free lands, will the Pharoah let them go, or try to stop them?

This scenario whittles down the Tauton and puts a temporary check on the PE, while making it a hotbed of adventure hooks and intrigues.

A couple of clues implicating the pharaoh harvesting the PPE.

[taalismn]

A couple of clues implicating the pharaoh harvesting the PPE.

See...rumors starting already. Unrest in the streets before you know it!

[SolCannibal]

A couple of clues implicating the pharaoh harvesting the PPE.

See...rumors starting already. Unrest in the streets before you know it!

True, true. I'm having some additional ones of my own in mind too.


But changing subject, what do you people think of the idea of a RCC with the Union with the Dead necromancer power as a natural ability? Have been thinking it could make a fun Psi-Stalker substitute/monster-hunting race to insert in the continent. Harvesters is what i'm calling them for now.

Another possibility that crossed my mind is using the TW so simulate an "arcane crafter" OCC, replacing technological components and jewels with traditional handcrafted materials and monster parts. Quick & dirty patch up OCC to insert in a game as you go along i guess.

[taalismn]

[
Another possibility that crossed my mind is using the TW so simulate an "arcane crafter" OCC, replacing technological components and jewels with traditional handcrafted materials and monster parts. Quick & dirty patch up OCC to insert in a game as you go along i guess.

I think there's a bio-artificer class in Nghtspawn/Nightbane that does something similar with combining bits and pieces of tech and metal with living tissue...so you get things like flying eyeballs and machinery powered by animal hearts....might be worth looking at as a basis.

[eliakon]

[
Incidentally, the existence of this passage could be a plot hook in more ways than one as, going by some info in the history of the area, the tendency that seems to appear would be of the Ishtmus growing and choking the passage through silt accumulation and such, meaning something major (through enviromental changes or something's intervention) actually happened for things to turn out like that.

Have the east side of the strait dominated by a stationary, but constant, upwelling sandstorm. The best mages, even Elemental ones, in the PE can't figure out what's behind it, only that the region is dominated by chaotic magic. Anybody going into it or trying to fly over it disappears, never to be seen again(?)
Rather than appear afraid of it, Rama-set publicly declares that it's part of the natural defenses of his realm and he acts as if it's alway been there and that he's not concerned in the least about it. Privately, though....

Keeps things mostly undefined the way they were, while lampshading the mysteriousness through a macguffin/plot hook. Good, good.


As an aside, a little thing that has crossed my mind is that the PE's population breakdown can serve as something of a sample of "communities/ethnicities/etc" found possibly not only in the Empire but neighboring areas, specially where no clear landmarks to define borders actually exist.
Peppering the region with "minor" nations, tribal alliances strategically placed city-states ruled by one or more of those monster, D-bee races in any combination could make room for some fun mixes and such.

PS: When i use the Phoenix Empire in my games, i'm going to replace the Gallu Bulls with the "Space Minotaurs" from Anvil Galaxy. Having one specific race of greater demons as 5% of the Empire's population feels like serious overkill, so having a powered down substitute is nice. Tautons should go too, at least in the numbers given. 10 million is a huge number and contradicts the RCC's own background to boot (just 100.000 of them would be a suitable impressive chunk of their people in one place). Any other races scorpion-tailed crocodile-people that i could use around?

What about the generic Scorpion People from the Pantheons book. They are associated with the Pantheons of Sumar... which is convieniently the Middle East. And they like deserts...
If people with insufficent lore (like outsiders trying to get a census) look in they would see "millions and millions of scorpion people"
They might even just see Tautons in the main city and then assume that the "millions of scorpion people in the border army and those cities in the desert" are yet more Tautons...oops.

[SolCannibal]

[
Another possibility that crossed my mind is using the TW so simulate an "arcane crafter" OCC, replacing technological components and jewels with traditional handcrafted materials and monster parts. Quick & dirty patch up OCC to insert in a game as you go along i guess.

I think there's a bio-artificer class in Nghtspawn/Nightbane that does something similar with combining bits and pieces of tech and metal with living tissue...so you get things like flying eyeballs and machinery powered by animal hearts....might be worth looking at as a basis.

Certainly worth checking out for doing something fancier - though the lazy tinkerer in me just says "harvesting random RMB monsters with the spell you want as supernatural ability for components is good enough" and roll with it.

[
Incidentally, the existence of this passage could be a plot hook in more ways than one as, going by some info in the history of the area, the tendency that seems to appear would be of the Ishtmus growing and choking the passage through silt accumulation and such, meaning something major (through enviromental changes or something's intervention) actually happened for things to turn out like that.

Have the east side of the strait dominated by a stationary, but constant, upwelling sandstorm. The best mages, even Elemental ones, in the PE can't figure out what's behind it, only that the region is dominated by chaotic magic. Anybody going into it or trying to fly over it disappears, never to be seen again(?)
Rather than appear afraid of it, Rama-set publicly declares that it's part of the natural defenses of his realm and he acts as if it's alway been there and that he's not concerned in the least about it. Privately, though....

Keeps things mostly undefined the way they were, while lampshading the mysteriousness through a macguffin/plot hook. Good, good.


As an aside, a little thing that has crossed my mind is that the PE's population breakdown can serve as something of a sample of "communities/ethnicities/etc" found possibly not only in the Empire but neighboring areas, specially where no clear landmarks to define borders actually exist.
Peppering the region with "minor" nations, tribal alliances strategically placed city-states ruled by one or more of those monster, D-bee races in any combination could make room for some fun mixes and such.

PS: When i use the Phoenix Empire in my games, i'm going to replace the Gallu Bulls with the "Space Minotaurs" from Anvil Galaxy. Having one specific race of greater demons as 5% of the Empire's population feels like serious overkill, so having a powered down substitute is nice. Tautons should go too, at least in the numbers given. 10 million is a huge number and contradicts the RCC's own background to boot (just 100.000 of them would be a suitable impressive chunk of their people in one place). Any other races scorpion-tailed crocodile-people that i could use around?

What about the generic Scorpion People from the Pantheons book. They are associated with the Pantheons of Sumar... which is convieniently the Middle East. And they like deserts...
If people with insufficent lore (like outsiders trying to get a census) look in they would see "millions and millions of scorpion people"
They might even just see Tautons in the main city and then assume that the "millions of scorpion people in the border army and those cities in the desert" are yet more Tautons...oops.

Well, if the scorpion-people actually look like that picture in CB2 it would take some people with terrible eyesight indeed...

[dreicunan]

Hell, have some mysterious biblical-level plague sweep through the Tauton community.. magic doesn't touch the stuff and ironically the mass concentrations of the Tautons in the PE allows the stuff to spread like wildfire through their population before the plague is contained/burned out, but not before reaping a HIDEOUS toll of them. If they weren't dying before, they're threatened now.
The aftermath should have a hard effect on the PE; so many dead, and questions start arising; where did it come from, why was it so fatal, why couldn't the science and magic of the Pharaoh touch it? Was it just an unlucky random happening, or a deliberate attack? And if the latter, by who, against who? The Tautons? The Pharaoh? And what's going to be done about it?
Meanwhile, there's a sudden glut of Tauton body parts(and whole bodies) in the necromantic black market. There are allegations that members of Pharaoh Rama-set's administration have a hand in the desecration of Tauton bodies, accusations the Pharaoh is being less than clear in denying. There's also rumors of zombie or ghostly Tauton haunting some quarters of the PE cities...or entire dead communities in the desert. Another distraction for Pharaoh's armies to investigate and deal with.
This could all lead to some Tauton becoming mighty upset with Pharaoh Rama-set, as well as Pharaoh looking for another species to become new minions and plug the big gaping hole in the Empire's labor pool and economy. Will he seek to enslave new help, or offer generous terms(with wealth confiscated from dead Tauton households?) for anybody willing to join him? If surviving Tauton start fleeing the Empire, seeking plague-free lands, will the Pharoah let them go, or try to stop them?

This scenario whittles down the Tauton and puts a temporary check on the PE, while making it a hotbed of adventure hooks and intrigues.

While it is a great plot device indeed, it requires recognizing those 10 million Tautons as anything beside a glaring editing mistake, what i'm not exactly happy with either. Decisions, decisions....

1000 round glitter boys say that the precedent is set for dealing with the glaring editing mistake as canon anyways.

[SolCannibal]

1000 round glitter boys say that the precedent is set for dealing with the glaring editing mistake as canon anyways.

Too true.

But again on the subject of quick-&-dirty additions to one's game, while reading the PF main book i just noticed the Divination Ball an enchanted object whose power "is basically the same as the psionic power of clairvoyance" in the book's own words. Going from that to a bunch of crystal ball or gems replicating other powers of Sensitive Abilities list is almost a non-issue and the Healer or Physical lists just a small step away.

And people in the CS or Mindwerks (among others) would pay (or kill) a lot to get their grubby paws in such objects for further study.

[ShadowLogan]

Would the Phoenix Empire bother re-opening the Suez Canal? They've got fliers after all, and they;re not going to make revenue with international passage....
Unless the Empire wants a moat between them and what lies on the Sinai, or just wants a constant manual labor death-sentence to punish slaves, I can't see the Suez remaining operational.

Not to put a damper, but its a moot point. According to various maps (WB7 and WB4 for example) there is a large water way that connects the Med. and Red Seas.

That said I could see the PE as an Altantean Trade port/base that Splogorth/Horune operate from. They collect the goods and bring them to the PE for transfer to Atlantis.

But now comes to mind a funny question: who would control the "Suez Straight" considering it's at best in the border of the PE, if not outright outside it based on what little we get through the maps?

Incidentally, the existence of this passage could be a plot hook in more ways than one as, going by some info in the history of the area, the tendency that seems to appear would be of the Ishtmus growing and choking the passage through silt accumulation and such, meaning something major (through enviromental changes or something's intervention) actually happened for things to turn out like that.

Keep in mind that the re-appearance of Atlantis changed sea levels across the globe, so it could just be an environmental change. Then again the Lord of the Deep might have "carved" (and maintain) a path for its "rearchers" to more easily reach the Mediterranian via the Red Sea.

As to who controls the Suez Straight. My guess would be no one really has full control over it since we don't know what's on the other side (Middle East), at best the PE might control it or parts of it.

[SolCannibal]

Would the Phoenix Empire bother re-opening the Suez Canal? They've got fliers after all, and they;re not going to make revenue with international passage....
Unless the Empire wants a moat between them and what lies on the Sinai, or just wants a constant manual labor death-sentence to punish slaves, I can't see the Suez remaining operational.

Not to put a damper, but its a moot point. According to various maps (WB7 and WB4 for example) there is a large water way that connects the Med. and Red Seas.

That said I could see the PE as an Altantean Trade port/base that Splogorth/Horune operate from. They collect the goods and bring them to the PE for transfer to Atlantis.

But now comes to mind a funny question: who would control the "Suez Straight" considering it's at best in the border of the PE, if not outright outside it based on what little we get through the maps?

Incidentally, the existence of this passage could be a plot hook in more ways than one as, going by some info in the history of the area, the tendency that seems to appear would be of the Ishtmus growing and choking the passage through silt accumulation and such, meaning something major (through enviromental changes or something's intervention) actually happened for things to turn out like that.

Keep in mind that the re-appearance of Atlantis changed sea levels across the globe, so it could just be an environmental change. Then again the Lord of the Deep might have "carved" (and maintain) a path for its "rearchers" to more easily reach the Mediterranian via the Red Sea.

The matter is that for it to happen it basically requires the sea currents completely inverting directions, what sounds a little more extreme than rising sea levels, but then i'm no specialist to know how the return of Atlantis, consequential sea level rise (what i always thought weird - wouldn't the water go to some other dimension? did the whole place drop or something?) and other aftereffects might change weather patterns, sea currents and a number of other things across Rifts Earth in the following centuries.

(It could theoretically lead to changes in atlantic ocean currents and weather patterns that might start of a reversion of the Sahara's millenia of desertification, for an example)

But anyway, it's the sort of thing that seems a little extreme not to consider external intervention.

As to who controls the Suez Straight. My guess would be no one really has full control over it since we don't know what's on the other side (Middle East), at best the PE might control it or parts of it.

Yes, as is it's pretty much a mystery, point of contention and plot hook all rolled into one. WB4 does mention PE having some trade with (and influence over) several small monster kingdoms and groups in Saudi Arabia and surrounding areas but that's the most i can remember from the book.

Ah, found something nice here. Found through wiki, but here's the actual source of the image.

More of a joke, but also relevant.

[ShadowLogan]

The matter is that for it to happen it basically requires the sea currents completely inverting directions, what sounds a little more extreme than rising sea levels, but then i'm no specialist to know how the return of Atlantis, consequential sea level rise (what i always thought weird - wouldn't the water go to some other dimension? did the whole place drop or something?) and other aftereffects might change weather patterns, sea currents and a number of other things across Rifts Earth in the following centuries.

(It could theoretically lead to changes in atlantic ocean currents and weather patterns that might start of a reversion of the Sahara's millenia of desertification, for an example)

But anyway, it's the sort of thing that seems a little extreme not to consider external intervention.

I'm not expert either on the topic, so I just take it at face value for the game. As for Atlantis's arrival, it would work in one of two ways:
1. mass of water would switch places with the land mass
2. the mass of water gets displaced as the land mass comes back into our dimension. This probably requires a bubble to form first pushing the water away before the land mass can reappear.

Given that the changing sea levels are directly connected to Atlantis's return per various statements, it looks like #2 is the method envisioned by the author.

And yes currents and weather patterns will change because of Atlantis. That much I'm sure would happen, though I don't think the authors really took that into consideration as the African geography of Rifts Earth seems to mirror closely the present day one (but then again I'm not expert on Africa)

[SolCannibal]

The matter is that for it to happen it basically requires the sea currents completely inverting directions, what sounds a little more extreme than rising sea levels, but then i'm no specialist to know how the return of Atlantis, consequential sea level rise (what i always thought weird - wouldn't the water go to some other dimension? did the whole place drop or something?) and other aftereffects might change weather patterns, sea currents and a number of other things across Rifts Earth in the following centuries.

(It could theoretically lead to changes in atlantic ocean currents and weather patterns that might start of a reversion of the Sahara's millenia of desertification, for an example)

But anyway, it's the sort of thing that seems a little extreme not to consider external intervention.

I'm not expert either on the topic, so I just take it at face value for the game. As for Atlantis's arrival, it would work in one of two ways:
1. mass of water would switch places with the land mass
2. the mass of water gets displaced as the land mass comes back into our dimension. This probably requires a bubble to form first pushing the water away before the land mass can reappear.

Given that the changing sea levels are directly connected to Atlantis's return per various statements, it looks like #2 is the method envisioned by the author.

And yes currents and weather patterns will change because of Atlantis. That much I'm sure would happen, though I don't think the authors really took that into consideration as the African geography of Rifts Earth seems to mirror closely the present day one (but then again I'm not expert on Africa)

Truth be told, the books are a little problematic sometimes when it comes to taking in consideration the effects of the sea level changes and other enviromental changes into the geography of Rifts Earth when presenting the maps, not only with Africa.

[eliakon]

given that Millennium trees usually have portals on them, those able to talk to the trees (or convince druids and the like to do so) might actually be able to use them to transit between different parts of the world.

They do?
As far as I know the Tree of Darkness is the only tree with portals.
Is there something I'm missing someplace.

[taalismn]

[
(It could theoretically lead to changes in atlantic ocean currents and weather patterns that might start of a reversion of the Sahara's millenia of desertification, for an example)].

Ewww...wars of sand and green....Two Elemental factions, one of sand and dry stone fighting for territory with another of plants and mud, for the vast stage that is the Sahara....

[SolCannibal]

given that Millennium trees usually have portals on them, those able to talk to the trees (or convince druids and the like to do so) might actually be able to use them to transit between different parts of the world.

They do?
As far as I know the Tree of Darkness is the only tree with portals.
Is there something I'm missing someplace.

Now that's a good question - just took a look at WB3 and while i found no clear statement, i did come across this.

Random events that can happen during a Millennium Storm (Roll once for every five minutes of a Millennium Storm.)
86-00 A dimensional rift opens! I leave it to the Game Master as to whether anything bad, troublesome or annoying comes slithering out of the rift. Don't be too rough on the characters. This can be played for humor as well as drama. Or ... an old ally(s) may pop out of a rift created by a Millennium Tree to help defend it or others.

This, together with fact the Trees have full control of whether ley line storms happen or not around them, does seem to imply they might be able to choose to create rifts too, but one must convince her (through the Millenium Druids or somehow directly with empathic communication or something similar) of such a necessity.

[
(It could theoretically lead to changes in atlantic ocean currents and weather patterns that might start of a reversion of the Sahara's millenia of desertification, for an example)].

Ewww...wars of sand and green....Two Elemental factions, one of sand and dry stone fighting for territory with another of plants and mud, for the vast stage that is the Sahara....

Funny that you would mention the variant earth elementals - in one of my games a major plot was a group "green" elementals banding together and seeking the help of an imprisoned god/supernatural intelligence in "growing" an elemental intelligence of their own kind, to form a new court to help the other elements in the transdimensional Eco War.

[taalismn]

[

Funny that you would mention the variant earth elementals - in one of my games a major plot was a group "green" elementals banding together and seeking the help of an imprisoned god/supernatural intelligence in "growing" an elemental intelligence of their own kind, to form a new court to help the other elements in the transdimensional Eco War.

Oh, I like to think there's as many shades of Elemental as other forms of life...just that what is canon 'Elemental' may be those that love closest to a 'pure' state of their given Element. There's, IMHO, the equivalent of Elemental 'animals' and maybe 'plants', as well as various factions.
A war in the Sahara would be like two rival terraforming groups trying to impose their vision of what the Sahara should be...oasises rise and fall virtually overnight, upwellings of water spout forth seemingly spontaneously to form pools, carpets of greenery and dunes slide back and forth in a wrestle for territory. Maybe the Earth Elementals swallow some pride and enlist the help of other Elemental types, forming brief alliances in which firestorms obliterate grasslands or weather fronts dump torrents of rain onto parched lands, or ground water levels rise in upsurges, or drop deeper below the surface rather than come to the top and evaporate.

[SolCannibal]

[

Funny that you would mention the variant earth elementals - in one of my games a major plot was a group "green" elementals banding together and seeking the help of an imprisoned god/supernatural intelligence in "growing" an elemental intelligence of their own kind, to form a new court to help the other elements in the transdimensional Eco War.

Oh, I like to think there's as many shades of Elemental as other forms of life...just that what is canon 'Elemental' may be those that love closest to a 'pure' state of their given Element. There's, IMHO, the equivalent of Elemental 'animals' and maybe 'plants', as well as various factions.
A war in the Sahara would be like two rival terraforming groups trying to impose their vision of what the Sahara should be...oasises rise and fall virtually overnight, upwellings of water spout forth seemingly spontaneously to form pools, carpets of greenery and dunes slide back and forth in a wrestle for territory. Maybe the Earth Elementals swallow some pride and enlist the help of other Elemental types, forming brief alliances in which firestorms obliterate grasslands or weather fronts dump torrents of rain onto parched lands, or ground water levels rise in upsurges, or drop deeper below the surface rather than come to the top and evaporate.

Oh, i like to tinker with lots of things here and there across games - the dispute over the fate of the Sahara makes for a great plot to insert in Northern Africa and a major hurdle in the expansion of the Phoenix Empire, or pretty much any other power, in the region.

My use of the Green elementals was more of a matter of inserting a bunch of "diplomatic retinues" attending the court of the aforementioned imprisoned god/supernatural intelligence, each with its own agenda, interests, information and etc. A varied breed including the "green court" elementals, demons of Hades, a bunch of the fake pantheons from CB2 (Dark Council, Evil Immortals, Wothancrelyth, a homebrewed "Amenti Club"), along with genuine ones (agents of the Taut, Loki, his children, the Norse giants, Hera), a "syndicate" of Sowki, Mindolar, Dar'ota & other BtS critters serving a group of Goqua, bands of critters of the Land of Damned & Nightland Waste offering fealty, a Red Flame Demons "diplomatic" team and a band of Nightbanes completely out of their depth. Overall it worked as a chaotic and pretty entertaining intro - and at the same time diversion - of the Minion War's backdrop in the game (Hades' representative tried to get support to an alliance against Dyvval, failed hard and got chewed, literally, by the host in front of the others, among other highlights).