Savage Rifts Player's Guide is Out!

[blackwingedheaven]

For anyone who might have missed the announcement or not checked their email yet, the Tomorrow Legion Player's Guide for Savage Rifts is now officially out to Kickstarter backers! The Pinnacle website is under some serious strain today, so you might have to wait a while to grab your pdf, but I finally managed to get mine a couple of hours ago. I haven't gotten to look over it too much since I'm at work, but what I've seen so far looks pretty good. I figured I'd start up a new thread to talk about the official release (rather than the Kickstarter itself), so feel free to let people know what you think here. =)

[kaid]

It is out-ish. Their website is being super kicked in the mommy daddy parts this morning but give it some time after the initial hordes die down a bit. Still nice to see that part is already done with the others to come very very good sign this is going to be on time.

[blackwingedheaven]

Got my copy finally. First impressions: It looks good! I'll have more of substance to say once I'm home from work and get a chance to really dig in.

[Hotrod]

The font they selected for "Error establishing a database connection" was outstanding. A clean layout, no frills, very professional.

Everybody, please stop downloading it so I can get my new book!

[kaid]

Hehe keep an eye out for your email from them for drive thru RPG download of it. I got mine that way a few minutes ago. I don't have time to read through it fully now but just scanning through it looks really good. The TW item creation rules look a lot more sane and less open to some wacky abuse and a bit easier with less needing to constantly check with GM to make them work.

[Juce734]

I got my PDF copy. Looks good. Going to be studying up on the Savage Worlds Deluxe book over the next few days before really diving into the Savage Rifts book. Would be nice to have a section on the forums here for Savage Rifts.

[Zamion138]

Havent gotten to actually play it yet, but real big differences it feels like in non combat.
Teleportation is no longer miles
Mind melters are KOS to the cs
No diminsional teleport
No open rift spells/abilities
Alot of classes are "quirky" to outsiders
Feels smaller I suppose.

[Zamion138]

Also not a huge fan of alot of the art, that is just a visual diffrence but seems sleeker and less war torn and broken down

[kaid]

Mind melters always were KOS to the CS.

Also the way savage worlds does their books I would hold off on judging the size and feel until we get all three parts. The GM guide I believe has a lot of the world type info and likely other stuff so the dimensional port type stuff may show up elsewhere.

[kaid]

Oh one thing to note with ranges the way savage worlds does ranges is mostly so it makes sense with table top usage. So a lot of the ranges on really long range weapons/abilities is shorter than what you would see in standards rifts.

[Zamion138]

Mind melters always were KOS to the CS.

Also the way savage worlds does their books I would hold off on judging the size and feel until we get all three parts. The GM guide I believe has a lot of the world type info and likely other stuff so the dimensional port type stuff may show up elsewhere.

Well on the kick starter I asked and they (jodi) said no diminsional telport at this time is made.
I will hold whole judgment till I have all 3 books and explorers all the way read, but just seems less campaign feel and more one shot/combat only based so far. Again havent played it, hopefully you can gear it to be more long game based as thats how we (my table) plays.

I am missing the shifter still hahahaha but will see when the villian shows up how easy to convert to pc status it is

[HWalsh]

I will hold whole judgment till I have all 3 books and explorers all the way read, but just seems less campaign feel and more one shot/combat only based so far.

That is the Savage Worlds system you just described.

Campaign? No. Never works. One shots? Small series of 2-3 sessions? Perfectly fine. Good for convention play too.

[Damian Magecraft]

Tagged for future reference.

[blackwingedheaven]

That is the Savage Worlds system you just described.

Campaign? No. Never works. One shots? Small series of 2-3 sessions? Perfectly fine. Good for convention play too.

That would be a very unusual statement for my players to hear, given that we just came off a year-long Savage Worlds campaign, which was after a six-month-long Savage Worlds campaign, which was preceded by a two-year-long Savage Worlds campaign. =p

Seriously, I don't know where this idea that SW isn't good for campaign play comes from. I've been running SW on and off for much of the last decade, and I've run and played in over a dozen campaigns that lasted from anywhere from two months to three years. I've run games that went to almost 200 XP, and played in a game that got pretty far into Legendary Rank before it ended.

[Zamion138]

Well I do like a good long so here is hoping you are more right than HWalsh.

[Library Ogre]

I've enjoyed what I've seen in it; probably going to skate on the Castle Refuge and Tomorrow Legion, but, hey.

[Juce734]

That is the Savage Worlds system you just described.

Campaign? No. Never works. One shots? Small series of 2-3 sessions? Perfectly fine. Good for convention play too.

That would be a very unusual statement for my players to hear, given that we just came off a year-long Savage Worlds campaign, which was after a six-month-long Savage Worlds campaign, which was preceded by a two-year-long Savage Worlds campaign. =p

Seriously, I don't know where this idea that SW isn't good for campaign play comes from. I've been running SW on and off for much of the last decade, and I've run and played in over a dozen campaigns that lasted from anywhere from two months to three years. I've run games that went to almost 200 XP, and played in a game that got pretty far into Legendary Rank before it ended.

I don't see why anyone would think it isn't good for a campaign. Sounds like more of a character development issue than a system issue.

[PigLickJF]

That is the Savage Worlds system you just described.

Campaign? No. Never works. One shots? Small series of 2-3 sessions? Perfectly fine. Good for convention play too.

That would be a very unusual statement for my players to hear, given that we just came off a year-long Savage Worlds campaign, which was after a six-month-long Savage Worlds campaign, which was preceded by a two-year-long Savage Worlds campaign. =p

Seriously, I don't know where this idea that SW isn't good for campaign play comes from. I've been running SW on and off for much of the last decade, and I've run and played in over a dozen campaigns that lasted from anywhere from two months to three years. I've run games that went to almost 200 XP, and played in a game that got pretty far into Legendary Rank before it ended.

This is interesting. As I've been learning the rules (never played it, just bought the core rules a couple of weeks ago to prepare for Savage Rifts), I could definitely feel the tabletop wargame roots of SW.

One major thing that jumped out at me, and is confirmed now that I've looked at Savage Rifts, is the durations of powers. A Ley Line Walker only starts with 15 PPE, which is good for about a minute and a half of invisibility (or most other spells that have a duration beyond instant). That's more than enough for most combat situations, but for anything else, it's not really going to cut it.

[blackwingedheaven]

One major thing that jumped out at me, and is confirmed now that I've looked at Savage Rifts, is the durations of powers. A Ley Line Walker only starts with 15 PPE, which is good for about a minute and a half of invisibility (or most other spells that have a duration beyond instant). That's more than enough for most combat situations, but for anything else, it's not really going to cut it.

Savage Worlds definitely has a different dynamic than D&D-style games where a wizard's best choices are almost always going to be buff magic out of combat. SW is much more centered around making tactical choices in combat time, which I personally prefer to the "all buff magic, all the time" dynamic of some games. If you want more long-lasting buff magic, take a look at the ritual magic rules from the Horror Companion or the "No Power Points" option from the corebook.

[PigLickJF]

One major thing that jumped out at me, and is confirmed now that I've looked at Savage Rifts, is the durations of powers. A Ley Line Walker only starts with 15 PPE, which is good for about a minute and a half of invisibility (or most other spells that have a duration beyond instant). That's more than enough for most combat situations, but for anything else, it's not really going to cut it.

Savage Worlds definitely has a different dynamic than D&D-style games where a wizard's best choices are almost always going to be buff magic out of combat. SW is much more centered around making tactical choices in combat time, which I personally prefer to the "all buff magic, all the time" dynamic of some games. If you want more long-lasting buff magic, take a look at the ritual magic rules from the Horror Companion or the "No Power Points" option from the corebook.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely have another look at the No Power Points option.

It's not really the combat situations that concern me, though - in fact, that's part of the problem, and why I said I can feel the wargame roots of the system. It seems the powers are balanced entirely around combat situations, but it's more the creative non-combat/utility uses of powers that concerns me. Using Invisibility to sneak into an enemy compound, for example, is basically impossible when you've only got a minute and half to do it in.

I don't have enough experience with the system to try and start making houserules or anything, but I can definitely see this as a problem area, or maybe it works out better in play than I think it does.

[blackwingedheaven]

It's not really the combat situations that concern me, though - in fact, that's part of the problem, and why I said I can feel the wargame roots of the system. It seems the powers are balanced entirely around combat situations, but it's more the creative non-combat/utility uses of powers that concerns me. Using Invisibility to sneak into an enemy compound, for example, is basically impossible when you've only got a minute and half to do it in.

I don't have enough experience with the system to try and start making houserules or anything, but I can definitely see this as a problem area, or maybe it works out better in play than I think it does.

I have a friend who uses the houserule that non-combat uses of powers have durations in minutes instead of rounds, but the power immediately drops if you enter combat. It basically represents your ability to "hold" a power longer if you have more concentration, but having your life imminently threatened makes it impossible to maintain that concentration.

[kaid]

I've enjoyed what I've seen in it; probably going to skate on the Castle Refuge and Tomorrow Legion, but, hey.

I think that stuff is mostly there as a nod to the savage world veterans as the tomorrow legion type stuff appears to show up in a lot of their books.

Honestly the concept of something like that coming together makes sense just the location they chose is really head scratching. That is just asking to get curb stomped by the CS since you are in their back yard.

[PigLickJF]

I have a friend who uses the houserule that non-combat uses of powers have durations in minutes instead of rounds, but the power immediately drops if you enter combat. It basically represents your ability to "hold" a power longer if you have more concentration, but having your life imminently threatened makes it impossible to maintain that concentration.

Yah, that was one of the ideas I had as well, glad to hear someone else is using it - I assume it's working out well?

[blackwingedheaven]

I have a friend who uses the houserule that non-combat uses of powers have durations in minutes instead of rounds, but the power immediately drops if you enter combat. It basically represents your ability to "hold" a power longer if you have more concentration, but having your life imminently threatened makes it impossible to maintain that concentration.

Yah, that was one of the ideas I had as well, glad to hear someone else is using it - I assume it's working out well?

I don't play in his game, so I can't say firsthand, but it certainly doesn't seem to be giving him any balance problems. One of the best things about Savage Worlds, IMO, is that the table balance is way harder to mess up than in most games. You have to go pretty far out of your way to mess with the system enough to break it--as I think Savage Rifts is currently proving!

[Hotrod]

Mind melters always were KOS to the CS.

That's a matter of interpretation. Per Psyscape, citizens of that class who respect the law and human life are called Dominators, and are OK. The term "Mind Melter" seems to imply one that does not cooperate with authorities. They have a presence in Psi-Battalion.

As for non-citizens who respect the law but hold the Mind-Melter O.C.C., that seems to be a category for interpretation.

[Riftmaker]

Umm am i missing something or are all the body armors not MDC? Their have "armor+##" but unlike glitterboys and robot vehicles do not mention MDC. This is even for none glitterboy power armors. Is this addressed some place?

[Zamion138]

All the armor is sdc, remember mdc weapons still only do regular dmg against sdc.
So your hit by robot heavy laser of 2d6 mdc doom, it hits and you take 2d6 -armor and toughness
But all the power armor im seeing at least are mdc . So your wilks pistol can shoot the samas all night long.

[blackwingedheaven]

Umm am i missing something or are all the body armors not MDC? Their have "armor+##" but unlike glitterboys and robot vehicles do not mention MDC. This is even for none glitterboy power armors. Is this addressed some place?

It's part of the design philosophy of Savage Rifts. The designers mentioned during the writing process that the question "Is it like a tank?" came up a fair bit. Basically, not every personal weapon or armor are MD now; only things that are "tank-like" or could be reasonably thought of as threats to a tank-like thing are MD. It's an intentional choice by the writers, and one I very much approve of.

[Zamion138]

The plasma weapons change is kinda cool to..... deffintly want to be wearing your helmet now if you get hit.

[Riftmaker]

OK I get that thank you.

[Riftmaker]

The plasma weapons change is kinda cool to..... deffintly want to be wearing your helmet now if you get hit.

Yea catching fire will im sure not help you with the ladies.

[J_cobbers]

Downloaded it the other day, reading it here and there in my free time along with the Savage Worlds core book to try and get an understanding of all the mechanics. So far I'm liking their take on things, a lot more fast and loose with mechanics, don't need a million specific skills to do neat things, which I like a lot. Artwork is nice, and so far the layout and placement of the rules is logical and easy to follow.

[Riftmaker]

CAn a TW make MD stuff without the master of magic edge?

[PigLickJF]

CAn a TW make MD stuff without the master of magic edge?

I don't think so, but they should be able to modify/convert gear that's already MDC.

[J_cobbers]

I have found one mechanic that I want to nit pick on Robot Armor Combat. When making a H2H attack with a Robot Vehicle the pilot uses the lower of his Piloting or Fighting skill to attack, and can't use their edges in Robot Combat either. In PB Rifts, the combat training in Power Armor and Robot Vehicles always added to ones abilities never detracted. Here in SW Rifts you roll the lower skill and can't do all the maneuvers you could when out of the bot, which I feel violates that original spirit, but can understand their logic, it just doesn't jive with the original material.

[blackwingedheaven]

I have found one mechanic that I want to nit pick on Robot Armor Combat. When making a H2H attack with a Robot Vehicle the pilot uses the lower of his Piloting or Fighting skill to attack, and can't use their edges in Robot Combat either. In PB Rifts, the combat training in Power Armor and Robot Vehicles always added to ones abilities never detracted. Here in SW Rifts you roll the lower skill and can't do all the maneuvers you could when out of the bot, which I feel violates that original spirit, but can understand their logic, it just doesn't jive with the original material.

New game, new spirit, new direction. Just accept it as its own thing inspired by the source material instead of trying to be some sort of direct conversion.

[kaid]

Umm am i missing something or are all the body armors not MDC? Their have "armor+##" but unlike glitterboys and robot vehicles do not mention MDC. This is even for none glitterboy power armors. Is this addressed some place?

It's part of the design philosophy of Savage Rifts. The designers mentioned during the writing process that the question "Is it like a tank?" came up a fair bit. Basically, not every personal weapon or armor are MD now; only things that are "tank-like" or could be reasonably thought of as threats to a tank-like thing are MD. It's an intentional choice by the writers, and one I very much approve of.

In fact it seems like in general personal armor/weapons generally are not MDC in the savage worlds model. It looks like MDC is mostly things like explosives or obvious anti tank weaponry like heavy particle beams/plasma cannons and the like. Also a lot of magical weapons are MDC. Given that in general MDC damage is a lot more survivable with SDC armor in savage worlds than in rifts where it is utterly not survivable I am curious how this works out in play.

[Damian Magecraft]

Umm am i missing something or are all the body armors not MDC? Their have "armor+##" but unlike glitterboys and robot vehicles do not mention MDC. This is even for none glitterboy power armors. Is this addressed some place?

It's part of the design philosophy of Savage Rifts. The designers mentioned during the writing process that the question "Is it like a tank?" came up a fair bit. Basically, not every personal weapon or armor are MD now; only things that are "tank-like" or could be reasonably thought of as threats to a tank-like thing are MD. It's an intentional choice by the writers, and one I very much approve of.

In fact it seems like in general personal armor/weapons generally are not MDC in the savage worlds model. It looks like MDC is mostly things like explosives or obvious anti tank weaponry like heavy particle beams/plasma cannons and the like. Also a lot of magical weapons are MDC. Given that in general MDC damage is a lot more survivable with SDC armor in savage worlds than in rifts where it is utterly not survivable I am curious how this works out in play.

It works out surprisingly well.

[Riftmaker]

Question if non MDC armor gives a bonus to toughness and an armor bonus Do either get ignored if a MD weapon is used on them?

[PigLickJF]

No, it works exactly the same. The only thing MDC weapons do is allow you affect MDC armor. Otherwise MDC and SDC weapons are exactly the same.