Silver Rail Gun Rounds

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is something that always bothered me. To fire from a rail gun, all a metal has to do is be electrically conductive, not a magnet in and of itself. So logically wouldn't loading a rail gun with silver rounds do something like 2d6*100 HP to were-creatures, effectivly juicing them instantly?

[Killer Cyborg]

This is something that always bothered me. To fire from a rail gun, all a metal has to do is be electrically conductive, not a magnet in and of itself. So logically wouldn't loading a rail gun with silver rounds do something like 2d6*100 HP to were-creatures, effectivly juicing them instantly?

You would think.
But then, I'd expect the same with vampires.

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is something that always bothered me. To fire from a rail gun, all a metal has to do is be electrically conductive, not a magnet in and of itself. So logically wouldn't loading a rail gun with silver rounds do something like 2d6*100 HP to were-creatures, effectivly juicing them instantly?

You would think.
But then, I'd expect the same with vampires.

Actually juicing a vampire would make it harder on yourself. There'd be nowhere to stake to keep it from regenerating, but it WILL regenerate if you just walk away, so it's actually better to use a weaker weapon so you can make sure you do the job right.

Were-beasts on the other hand, yea, liquify.

[Killer Cyborg]

This is something that always bothered me. To fire from a rail gun, all a metal has to do is be electrically conductive, not a magnet in and of itself. So logically wouldn't loading a rail gun with silver rounds do something like 2d6*100 HP to were-creatures, effectivly juicing them instantly?

You would think.
But then, I'd expect the same with vampires.

Actually juicing a vampire would make it harder on yourself. There'd be nowhere to stake to keep it from regenerating, but it WILL regenerate if you just walk away, so it's actually better to use a weaker weapon so you can make sure you do the job right.

But you CAN just walk away, and by the time they regenerate, you'll be long gone.
OR you can hang out until they're reformed enough to stake.

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is something that always bothered me. To fire from a rail gun, all a metal has to do is be electrically conductive, not a magnet in and of itself. So logically wouldn't loading a rail gun with silver rounds do something like 2d6*100 HP to were-creatures, effectivly juicing them instantly?

You would think.
But then, I'd expect the same with vampires.

Actually juicing a vampire would make it harder on yourself. There'd be nowhere to stake to keep it from regenerating, but it WILL regenerate if you just walk away, so it's actually better to use a weaker weapon so you can make sure you do the job right.

But you CAN just walk away, and by the time they regenerate, you'll be long gone.
OR you can hang out until they're reformed enough to stake.

Well yes, obviously you COULD, but that makes neither a necessarly good idea. in the first, you could have an enemy sharpening a knife for your back, in the latter, you probablly have better things to do with your time.

[Killer Cyborg]

This is something that always bothered me. To fire from a rail gun, all a metal has to do is be electrically conductive, not a magnet in and of itself. So logically wouldn't loading a rail gun with silver rounds do something like 2d6*100 HP to were-creatures, effectivly juicing them instantly?

You would think.
But then, I'd expect the same with vampires.

Actually juicing a vampire would make it harder on yourself. There'd be nowhere to stake to keep it from regenerating, but it WILL regenerate if you just walk away, so it's actually better to use a weaker weapon so you can make sure you do the job right.

But you CAN just walk away, and by the time they regenerate, you'll be long gone.
OR you can hang out until they're reformed enough to stake.

Well yes, obviously you COULD, but that makes neither a necessarly good idea. in the first, you could have an enemy sharpening a knife for your back, in the latter, you probablly have better things to do with your time.

That all depends on the character and the circumstances.

[Rimmer]

What would happen if you "juiced" said were creature and or vampire, scooped him up and did one of the following.

1. Put him in a small MDC container, water tight of course
2. Use him to water a tree
3. Seperate the parts
4. Pour him into a river

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is something that always bothered me. To fire from a rail gun, all a metal has to do is be electrically conductive, not a magnet in and of itself. So logically wouldn't loading a rail gun with silver rounds do something like 2d6*100 HP to were-creatures, effectivly juicing them instantly?

I assume not because
1) silver is a soft metal, also it is non-magnetic making it less desirable for acceleration
2) Because it is soft it has a lower durability which means that on impact it kind of just deforms without damaging the surface much.

1) Actually, being non-magnetic has absolutely no relevence. The point of a rail gun is to alternate current through the round to turn it into an eletro-magnet of whatever intensity it's designed to use. any natural magnetic force an iron round has is so small as to be a rounding error compared to the final result. as long as it's reasonably conductive it works as well as anything else.
2) Being softer probablly gives it less penetration to hardened, MDC targets, thus lowering it's damage to them. however, aginst HP/SDC targets, it's actually irrelevent. a 1-ounce silver slug going at Mach 3 is going to be just as effective as a titanum slug at mach 3: it'll blast right through without really noticing there was something in it's way. even if you downgraded a 1d6*10 rail gun to 1d4*10 for using silver, that's still 1d4*1000*2 to werewolves that even at max have less HP. that's 2,000 damage on the worst roll for a silver round.

or say you were using a weaker one? fine, cut it in half, or a third. a 6d6 man-portable rail gun cut in third is 2d6. that's 2d6*100*2 to werewolves. no matter how you slice it they can't survive.

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is something that always bothered me. To fire from a rail gun, all a metal has to do is be electrically conductive, not a magnet in and of itself. So logically wouldn't loading a rail gun with silver rounds do something like 2d6*100 HP to were-creatures, effectivly juicing them instantly?

I assume not because
1) silver is a soft metal, also it is non-magnetic making it less desirable for acceleration
2) Because it is soft it has a lower durability which means that on impact it kind of just deforms without damaging the surface much.

1) Actually, being non-magnetic has absolutely no relevence. The point of a rail gun is to alternate current through the round to turn it into an eletro-magnet of whatever intensity it's designed to use. any natural magnetic force an iron round has is so small as to be a rounding error compared to the final result. as long as it's reasonably conductive it works as well as anything else.

From what I know of the theory it would be necessary to run a current through the silver to induce a magnetic field. For that I don't know how you would do to a round. If you could point to an article or something I would love to read up on it.

Ask and ye shall receive

http://science.howstuffworks.com/rail-gun.htm

a rail gun can accelerate a projectile up to 52,493 feet (16,000 meters) per second

For those who don't want to do the math, that's about 35,790 MPH (rounded off), or a bit over Mach 50

Suddenly the boom gun seems like a dinky little toy in comparison, dosn't it?

2) Being softer probablly gives it less penetration to hardened, MDC targets, thus lowering it's damage to them. however, aginst HP/SDC targets, it's actually irrelevent. a 1-ounce silver slug going at Mach 3 is going to be just as effective as a titanum slug at mach 3: it'll blast right through without really noticing there was something in it's way. even if you downgraded a 1d6*10 rail gun to 1d4*10 for using silver, that's still 1d4*1000*2 to werewolves that even at max have less HP. that's 2,000 damage on the worst roll for a silver round.

or say you were using a weaker one? fine, cut it in half, or a third. a 6d6 man-portable rail gun cut in third is 2d6. that's 2d6*100*2 to werewolves. no matter how you slice it they can't survive.

Well normal rail guns don't even fire standard SDC metals of any sort, they use MD slugs. So it is safe to assume the reason they don't use those metals is because they just don't have the damage capacity to do MD. It seems more than likely that while the round would still be viscous (2D6x10 HP damage or whatever still sounds pretty destructive to me), it wouldn't really be capable of dealing the kinds of damages you are describing

Actually, nothing anywhere says that rail gun rounds are MDC.

And again, look at the speeds above. Are you seriously telling me that that isn't gonna do MDC no matter what the projectile is?

[Daeglan]

Now I wonder what making every 5th round silver would do to the MD output of the weapon.

[flatline]

Now I wonder what making every 5th round silver would do to the MD output of the weapon.

Worst case, it would reduce the damage by 20%.

--flatline

[Nekira Sudacne]

Actually, nothing anywhere says that rail gun rounds are MDC.

And again, look at the speeds above. Are you seriously telling me that that isn't gonna do MDC no matter what the projectile is?

Well I recall reading somewhere that rail gun rounds were reprocessed MDC savage but I recall it being a really obscure passage that would probably take me forever to find. Additionally, it should be more than obvious that Rifts rail guns don't function on anywhere near realistic principles. Even the Boom Gun doesn't achieve those speeds.

Although don't think I'm advocating the bizzare physics that Rifts utilizes. I'm just trying to give at least a semi-reasonable thought process to what is written. Something like "well I guess it could work that way. So that technically solves the problem but it seems just silly..."

It's entirely likely that some MDC salvage is magnetic and therefore useable, I don't recall such a line, and even if so, it shouldn't be taken to mean all. We can sink a battleship with regular iron, I think it works.

and as far as the boom gun goes, we should note that the speeds designed are for experimental Naval cannons, as in guns that will be physically larger than the house your standing in. It entirely stands to reason that boom guns, being smaller, can't acheive the same speeds. still, a mach 5 iron round is still gonna do MDC, and nothing says it can't.

[Daeglan]

It does not need to be magnetic. just conductive.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Actually, nothing anywhere says that rail gun rounds are MDC.

And again, look at the speeds above. Are you seriously telling me that that isn't gonna do MDC no matter what the projectile is?

Well I recall reading somewhere that rail gun rounds were reprocessed MDC savage but I recall it being a really obscure passage that would probably take me forever to find. Additionally, it should be more than obvious that Rifts rail guns don't function on anywhere near realistic principles. Even the Boom Gun doesn't achieve those speeds.

Although don't think I'm advocating the bizzare physics that Rifts utilizes. I'm just trying to give at least a semi-reasonable thought process to what is written. Something like "well I guess it could work that way. So that technically solves the problem but it seems just silly..."

It's entirely likely that some MDC salvage is magnetic and therefore useable, I don't recall such a line, and even if so, it shouldn't be taken to mean all. We can sink a battleship with regular iron, I think it works.

and as far as the boom gun goes, we should note that the speeds designed are for experimental Naval cannons, as in guns that will be physically larger than the house your standing in. It entirely stands to reason that boom guns, being smaller, can't acheive the same speeds. still, a mach 5 iron round is still gonna do MDC, and nothing says it can't.

Well nothing automatically says it does either. Personally, I think that soft metals like silver and gold would just break apart on impact and dissipate while dealing a (relatively) lower amount of damage. And like I said earlier, I think 2D6x10 is still pretty destructive.

And i'm saying the rules don't support that interpretation and such an interpretation would make my disbelif resemble a pinata stuffed with superpower-giving candy after being released in the slave pins in Atlantis

[Nekira Sudacne]

What would happen if you "juiced" said were creature and or vampire, scooped him up and did one of the following.

1. Put him in a small MDC container, water tight of course

Liquifying dosn't actually reduce mass, so you'd need a bigger one.

2. Use him to water a tree

Fertilizer

3. Seperate the parts

The greatest concentration would regenerate, the rest rot away

4. Pour him into a river

Would finish off vampires.

[Daeglan]

What would happen if you "juiced" said were creature and or vampire, scooped him up and did one of the following.

1. Put him in a small MDC container, water tight of course

Liquifying dosn't actually reduce mass, so you'd need a bigger one.

Do you use a sponge??? how do you get them in said container?

[Shark_Force]

minor side note, it's fairly likely that whenever the authors say "rail gun" that they *actually* mean "coil gun" or "gauss gun" (depending on which you prefer; they're the same thing)

so whether or not the projectile could be magnetized is fairly relevant in that case (with that said, i'm fairly certain that if you set up the projectile to be a coil itself, and to take alternating polarity at appropriate times during it's journey down the "barrel" of the weapon, possibly by simply having a connection point on the side of the slug as it passes through touch against a different power supply in different parts of the barrel for example, you would basically go right back to "any conductive material can work" if i'm not mistaken).

also, i'm almost certain there's a book which indicates that new rail gun slugs can be made in a standard modern machine shop, which means it's very unlikely for the slugs to be MDC materials in the first place (though i'm sure you *could* make the slugs from MDC materials. then again, depleted uranium is almost definitely not MDC material, nor is uranium, and we know both of those are actually *better* than the commonly used railgun slugs in the game)

[dragonfett]

Here's my take on the reason silver rail gun rounds don't do the damage you are thinking they should. They are mystical creatures in a world rich in magical energy.

[keir451]

Using pure silver as a railgun round won't work for the same reason it won't work in a regular gun, it deforms due to it's softness. That measn the silver would deform even in the ammo chamber or ammo belt causing a jam. However you CAN silver plate railgun rounds whcih'll give you the damges described in VK.

[Hotrod]

Actually, silver would probably do MORE damage than iron, or just about anything, when launched from a rail gun.

Silver is the best conductor of electricity. Barring superconductors (which require super-low cryogenic temperatures), there's nothing that conducts electricity better. This would lower the resistance of the circuit created by the rails and the slug. By Ohm's Law, lowering the resistance would increase the current, and increased current would create a stronger magnetic field and force.

(Side note: The next version of the Triax X-5000 should have a cryogenic, superconducting rail gun. Zero resistance, infinite current, and damage that makes a boom gun look like a .22! None of this 50-foot-long-ion-cannon-that-does-as-much-damage-as-an-infantry-rifle junk)

Thus, the velocity of the slug would be higher. Kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the velocity; twice the velocity means four times the kinetic energy. Regardless of how soft silver is, an impact event at Mach 10+ with anything that isn't a subatomic particle at these kinds of speeds will do huge amounts of damage. The round would likely vaporize instantly, adding an explosive effect.

If you think a soft metal can't hurt something harder, try this experiment: do a belly flop off a 10-foot diving board. Feel the pain. Then imagine that times a few billion. Liquids and gasses can and do rip robust solids apart (That's what explosions are!).

Of course, it's all science fiction. Lasers go 'pew pew', Ohio-class submarines still work after 300 years in mothballs, and everything's made out of unobtanium.

[flatline]

(Side note: The next version of the Triax X-5000 should have a cryogenic, superconducting rail gun. Zero resistance, infinite current, and damage that makes a boom gun look like a .22! None of this 50-foot-long-ion-cannon-that-does-as-much-damage-as-an-infantry-rifle junk)

The current won't be infinite because the circuit current would still be limited by the internal resistance of the power source.

Also, superconductivity only works if the current density stays below a threshold determined by the properties of the superconductor. You'd be able to run the circuit current up to that threshold, but once you exceed it, your superconductor stops being a superconductor and is probably quickly vaporized by the resistive heating effect.

--flatline

[Nekira Sudacne]

Just to note some game changes over time, the boom gun speeds were at least bumped up to Mach 5, and lasers were stated to be naturally silent but many manufactuers install a machine that gives them sound effects because that's what people expected--you can buy models without them or have them uninstalled if you want a silent-firing laser.

[Daeglan]

Using pure silver as a railgun round won't work for the same reason it won't work in a regular gun, it deforms due to it's softness. That measn the silver would deform even in the ammo chamber or ammo belt causing a jam. However you CAN silver plate railgun rounds whcih'll give you the damges described in VK.

Silver is harder than lead. Silver does not work well in guns because it is too hard. not because it is too soft. And is much lighter than lead. They tend to tumble in the air because they do not engage the rifling and thus do not get spin stabilized.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Using pure silver as a railgun round won't work for the same reason it won't work in a regular gun, it deforms due to it's softness. That measn the silver would deform even in the ammo chamber or ammo belt causing a jam. However you CAN silver plate railgun rounds whcih'll give you the damges described in VK.

Silver is harder than lead. Silver does not work well in guns because it is too hard. not because it is too soft. And is much lighter than lead. They tend to tumble in the air because they do not engage the rifling and thus do not get spin stabilized.

On the other hand, you could tweak the electromagnetic force your using to accelerate it to spin it in the barrel pretty easially.

[Daeglan]

yes. Or use polygonal rifling with preshaped projectiles.

My point was that silver is harder and lighter than lead. Which is why it is not used in guns today. Not that it is too soft. Though it is likely softer than what is used in railgun rounds.

[Hotrod]

(Side note: The next version of the Triax X-5000 should have a cryogenic, superconducting rail gun. Zero resistance, infinite current, and damage that makes a boom gun look like a .22! None of this 50-foot-long-ion-cannon-that-does-as-much-damage-as-an-infantry-rifle junk)

The current won't be infinite because the circuit current would still be limited by the internal resistance of the power source.

Also, superconductivity only works if the current density stays below a threshold determined by the properties of the superconductor. You'd be able to run the circuit current up to that threshold, but once you exceed it, your superconductor stops being a superconductor and is probably quickly vaporized by the resistive heating effect.

--flatline

How dare you use real science to pour cold water on my fantasy science?

You're completely right, of course. But I figure that if they have super-MDC alloys, they can have some super superconductors and super power sources.

[Nekira Sudacne]

(Side note: The next version of the Triax X-5000 should have a cryogenic, superconducting rail gun. Zero resistance, infinite current, and damage that makes a boom gun look like a .22! None of this 50-foot-long-ion-cannon-that-does-as-much-damage-as-an-infantry-rifle junk)

The current won't be infinite because the circuit current would still be limited by the internal resistance of the power source.

Also, superconductivity only works if the current density stays below a threshold determined by the properties of the superconductor. You'd be able to run the circuit current up to that threshold, but once you exceed it, your superconductor stops being a superconductor and is probably quickly vaporized by the resistive heating effect.

--flatline

How dare you use real science to pour cold water on my fantasy science?

You're completely right, of course. But I figure that if they have super-MDC alloys, they can have some super superconductors and super power sources.

Infinite capacity would require violating several laws. After all, while tiny, electrons have mass. put enough of them on your superconducter it'll eventually be too much to handle, even if it is superconductive. an infinilately-large electron stream would be physically larger than the universe.

[Daeglan]

Many ways to skin that cat. The way used is not the only way to do it.

[Daeglan]

That would depend on the materials used. Since I do not have access to MD materials and whatever other materials available in Rifts. can't say either way.

[Daeglan]

That would depend on the materials used. Since I do not have access to MD materials and whatever other materials available in Rifts. can't say either way.

Perhaps. But the fact that no one in Rifts seems to do it that way with M.D.C materials on hand would suggest otherwise. I suppose that since all of the weapons are fantasy there is no reason why you couldn't just snap your fingers and make it so.

I have never seen anything that says how rail guns are done. So really can you claim it is not?

[Daeglan]

the boom gun example is the boom gun. Which applies to the boom gun. but not others.
I do not consider it to be how they all work.

[Daeglan]

A single example of how one gun works does not mean they all work that way. If they did they would all be boom guns now wouldn't they? A sample size of 1 is not definitive.

[Killer Cyborg]

Rail gun ammunition is typically "spikes, balls, or rings," according to both RUE and the original Rifts book.
I'd say that rifling in the barrels is not likely to be a standard option.

[Daeglan]

Spikes, balls, and rings all need spin stabilized. The only thing that would not need it is something that is fin stabilized.

[Daeglan]

Spikes, balls, and rings all need spin stabilized. The only thing that would not need it is something that is fin stabilized.

Rail guns need to balance having minimal friction with the rails while maintaining enough surface area to be conductive, which is why they have the armature to carry the projectile. The armature allows a minimum surface area(which the opposite of how rifling functions) to minimize friction, and despite this the friction will still create plasma from the heat. An armature will also allow rail guns to fire whatever projectiles they want, facilitating the spikes, balls and rings.

Armatures work with fin stabilized items. If you are firing rings or balls or whatever you need to spin stabilized. Unless you want to go back to the accuracy of muskets. That requires rifling. You also keep thinking in terms of materials we have now. who knows what materials will be invented in the future to manage friction.

[flatline]

This is something that always bothered me. To fire from a rail gun, all a metal has to do is be electrically conductive, not a magnet in and of itself. So logically wouldn't loading a rail gun with silver rounds do something like 2d6*100 HP to were-creatures, effectivly juicing them instantly?

It depends on how silver harms these creatures. If I'm immune to hydrostatic shock, then if the projectile doesn't fragment, it doesn't make a difference to me if it passes through me at 400mph or 40,000mph.

Just food for thought.

My own personal beef with Rifts rail guns is that they are said to shoot bursts of small projectiles rather than a single high energy projectile even though that is the opposite of a good idea if you want penetration or are planning on using it within an atmosphere.

--flatline

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is something that always bothered me. To fire from a rail gun, all a metal has to do is be electrically conductive, not a magnet in and of itself. So logically wouldn't loading a rail gun with silver rounds do something like 2d6*100 HP to were-creatures, effectivly juicing them instantly?

It depends on how silver harms these creatures. If I'm immune to hydrostatic shock, then if the projectile doesn't fragment, it doesn't make a difference to me if it passes through me at 400mph or 40,000mph.

Just food for thought.

My own personal beef with Rifts rail guns is that they are said to shoot bursts of small projectiles rather than a single high energy projectile even though that is the opposite of a good idea if you want penetration or are planning on using it within an atmosphere.

--flatline

It's because machineguns are cooler than cannons, I think.

[flatline]

This is something that always bothered me. To fire from a rail gun, all a metal has to do is be electrically conductive, not a magnet in and of itself. So logically wouldn't loading a rail gun with silver rounds do something like 2d6*100 HP to were-creatures, effectivly juicing them instantly?

It depends on how silver harms these creatures. If I'm immune to hydrostatic shock, then if the projectile doesn't fragment, it doesn't make a difference to me if it passes through me at 400mph or 40,000mph.

Just food for thought.

My own personal beef with Rifts rail guns is that they are said to shoot bursts of small projectiles rather than a single high energy projectile even though that is the opposite of a good idea if you want penetration or are planning on using it within an atmosphere.

--flatline

It's because machineguns are cooler than cannons, I think.

No way! A howitzer is way cooler than than a machinegun.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

Spikes, balls, and rings all need spin stabilized. The only thing that would not need it is something that is fin stabilized.

Rail guns need to balance having minimal friction with the rails while maintaining enough surface area to be conductive, which is why they have the armature to carry the projectile. The armature allows a minimum surface area(which the opposite of how rifling functions) to minimize friction, and despite this the friction will still create plasma from the heat. An armature will also allow rail guns to fire whatever projectiles they want, facilitating the spikes, balls and rings.

Armatures work with fin stabilized items. If you are firing rings or balls or whatever you need to spin stabilized. Unless you want to go back to the accuracy of muskets.

A burst of 40 rounds from a C-40R does 1d4x10 MD.
A single shot inflicts 1d4 MD.
So roughly 25% of the shots from each burst are assumed to hit the target.
That sounds kind of like a musket volley.

I'm not saying that Rifts rail guns do or don't have rifling, or whether they have some other way to generate spin or stabilization... just that they might not.

[flatline]

Except that's not how rail guns work. The armature is what you get. If it doesn't it's not a rail gun.

I think it's reasonable to assume that even though they call them "rail guns", Rifts "rail guns" are more likely a Gauss or coil guns in design.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

Take monofilament fishing line, coat it in silver,

Okay....
How?

[Shark_Force]

Take monofilament fishing line, coat it in silver,

Okay....
How?

a wizard did it, of course.

[Shark_Force]

out of curiosity, why would a rail gun have more recoil than a coil gun?

or are you simply saying that rifts rail guns in general are assumed to have too much kick vs what they should have, with the boom gun being the poster child of that?

[Daeglan]

Spikes, balls, and rings all need spin stabilized. The only thing that would not need it is something that is fin stabilized.

Rail guns need to balance having minimal friction with the rails while maintaining enough surface area to be conductive, which is why they have the armature to carry the projectile. The armature allows a minimum surface area(which the opposite of how rifling functions) to minimize friction, and despite this the friction will still create plasma from the heat. An armature will also allow rail guns to fire whatever projectiles they want, facilitating the spikes, balls and rings.

Armatures work with fin stabilized items. If you are firing rings or balls or whatever you need to spin stabilized. Unless you want to go back to the accuracy of muskets. That requires rifling. You also keep thinking in terms of materials we have now. who knows what materials will be invented in the future to manage friction.

Except that's not how rail guns work. The armature is what you get. If it doesn't it's not a rail gun.

FYI an Armature is not required for a railgun. Just often used.

[Damian Magecraft]

Except that's not how rail guns work. The armature is what you get. If it doesn't it's not a rail gun.

I think it's reasonable to assume that even though they call them "rail guns", Rifts "rail guns" are more likely a Gauss or coil guns in design.

--flatline

yeah but Rail Gun sounds cooler than Coil Gun or Gauss Gun.

[Shark_Force]

out of curiosity, why would a rail gun have more recoil than a coil gun?

or are you simply saying that rifts rail guns in general are assumed to have too much kick vs what they should have, with the boom gun being the poster child of that?

Part of the reason why is the forces that are at work. Obviously it depends on the size of the projectile you are trying to fire, but part of the reason why there are no portable rail guns at the moment is that the force that is pushing the projectile along the rails is also pushing the rails apart(another is the weight). If you were trying to fire a pin a few hundred feet it would be minimal, but trying to fire a large projectile as fast as possible necessitates an exponential increase in the energy required and thus the forces to push against the rails. Another reason is the same as it is for a regular gun, the force required to move that projectile goes both ways. Part of that for a regular firearm is the explosives, but the other is that Newtonian force being applied back at you(equal and opposite reaction and such). Again moving a tiny object to high speed isn't so bad, but the bigger the projectile the more force it will require to get it up to those speeds. The biggest 155mm Howitzer rounds are going nowhere near as fast as a rail gun, and you might have seen how much kick those suckers have. Imagine how much kick they would have trying to do 4 times that speed. The best way to deal with recoil is mass. The more of you, the easier it is to resist the forces being pushed back on you. A 60 ton tank has that luxury, you don't, or even a Glitter Boy, hence it's fantasy recoil systems.
A coil gun is a little different. It's like if you were to turn a Mag-Lev train into a gun. There, there is a magnet pulling the object forward, and just as it reaches it the magnet turns off and the one behind it lights up. It takes very precise timing in terms of milliseconds and smaller the faster you go. A train peaks out around 200MPH, but a little projectile in it's own barrel can keep going faster and faster and faster and faster. It doesn't have Lorentz forces trying to push it apart the barrel(yep barrel, unlike a rail gun), although it will still have to deal with Newton in the same way as the Rail Gun. Usually the forces aren't as extreme however, for while a Rail Gun pushes it to those forces NOW, a Coil Gun builds up to them. The downside is they don't produce the velocities that rail guns do, and in order to have that gradual buildup the barrels often have to be quite long(a proposed coil gun to fire stuff into space was miles long). If it managed to have sufficiently powerful enough magnets to suck that projectile along to similar to rail gun speeds in a relatively short barrel(like a boom gun), it would be exerting similar forces to rail guns upon the user. However there are other benefits too. Since they are being sucked along by magnets, the projectiles don't actually touch the barrel at all, so there is no friction besides the air! Hence why they often try to make the barrel a vacuum if possible(wouldn't really work with a machine gun). So no bang(or the roar of rail gun plasma), no heat, no cartridges to extract, and the only noise is the projectile zipping by at mach speeds. Any ferrous material could be fired(like an iron flechette). So there is less potential recoil than a rail gun(longer barrel would help, mass still counts), it weighs less than a rail gun(no reinforcement necessary), and has similar power drain. Where a coil gun could be really funny is if instead of making a small projectile really fast, you move a much bigger projectile(like a cannon ball) much slower, as without the crack of the round breaking the sound barrier(and no explosion) the only noise it would make is the round whistling through the air, a silent mortar!

so you're assuming that coilguns inherently have a lower acceleration over a longer distance then.

because most of the rest of that is pretty much a wash (heavier guns do recoil less, but there's no rule that says you can't make a lighter gun heavy if you want it to handle recoil better, and i'm sure there's plenty of useful stuff you could add to a coil gun which would be heavy and also beneficial in other ways... more capacitor banks, for example, so that you can discharge more often).

(edit: for clarity of those looking on, heavier guns have to deal with the same recoil *force* as lighter guns - they don't have some magical power that reduces the force. what they do have is the fact that force = mass * acceleration, and when we muck around with that formula you get acceleration = force / mass... or, in other words, as the mass of the object increases, a given force will accelerate it less. as a result, a heavier gun recoils with just as much force... but isn't accelerated as much, even though the force is the same. thus, the distance the gun recoils is reduced. of course, the drawback to having a heavier weapon is that you have to move the weapon around, which is why nobody makes rifles with a mass of 50 kg to reduce felt recoil, for example).

[flatline]

Stop thread stealing this into a coil/gaus/rail gun discussion: most of the time rifts uses the term interchangeably ... quit pretending Rifts or palladium understands science, physics, or real world relationships.

The original post asked about rail gun rounds, so any discussion of how the rail gun works is totally on-topic since it directly impacts the nature of the projectile used.

--flatline

[Nekira Sudacne]

Your both right, actually. the science of rail guns IS relevent.

However, the goal is to find out how well modern hypervelocity weapons work aginst HP supernatural creatures who rely on their invunerability being hit with their weakness.

Thus, I don't care if it's a rail gun, coil gun or gauss gun, as long as it works it's what I want to know

[Nekira Sudacne]

Then you should know: After the rewrite in VK:R , This discussion is moot. The rewrite makes silver vulnerability ignore PS bonuses and (speed bonuses) and makes it a contact thing. Mind you, This POV is Totally STupid and the author of this rule beaten by a Silver Shilelagh Dipped from an Ironwood Cauldron Blessed by the holy gOd Rurga made with the Dragon blood of Kym Nak Mar. Yes.. and Baseball being important to Ugly Freakish bears.. Another idea worthy of getting the Cenobite treatment to the author.

You presume I have the rewritten VK, this would be incorrect.

[Nightmask]

Then you should know: After the rewrite in VK:R , This discussion is moot. The rewrite makes silver vulnerability ignore PS bonuses and (speed bonuses) and makes it a contact thing. Mind you, This POV is Totally STupid and the author of this rule beaten by a Silver Shilelagh Dipped from an Ironwood Cauldron Blessed by the holy gOd Rurga made with the Dragon blood of Kym Nak Mar. Yes.. and Baseball being important to Ugly Freakish bears.. Another idea worthy of getting the Cenobite treatment to the author.

Except that it's not a contact thing, since the damage done still depends on the weapon. If it were actually contact causing the damage then the rule would be 'contact with silver does X amount of damage' which isn't the case, it wouldn't do more/different damage if it were a silver sword doing the damage instead of a silver dagger or silver hammer. So obviously it's not contact that's the thing, and the idea that PS is irrelevant is just a bad, poorly thought out ruling.