How would you rule this?

[Rahmota]

Okay here is the problem I had last night: A character has Multiple selves and mimic. The character makes a copy of himself. Character prime then mimics the fast dude. Character Beta then mimics the flamer. Character prime then reabsorbs character beta. What happens?
A: Character prime now has both Flamer's and fast dide's powers.
B: Character prime now has only fast dude's power
C: Character prime now has only flamer's power.
D: Character prime has neither power.
E: Character prime explodes.

Last night I made the quickie ruling that last in first out is how that would work. So what do you think?

[Gryphon Chick]

I would rule that the copy's mimicked power would go away when reabsorbed into the primary character. So I guess I agree with gm.

[znbrtn]

gotta go with GM and gryphon chick here.

as an added note, if the original were to use mimic while his dupes were out, they would immediately disappear, because he would no longer have the multiple selves power for the duration of the mimic.

[Stone Gargoyle]

gotta go with GM and gryphon chick here.

as an added note, if the original were to use mimic while his dupes were out, they would immediately disappear, because he would no longer have the multiple selves power for the duration of the mimic.

Quite right. The character loses his other powers, including Multiple Selves, so that second mimic by the dupe would never happen since the dupe would disappear. Using Mimic with any other of the character's powers is not book legal.

[NMI]

gotta go with GM and gryphon chick here.

as an added note, if the original were to use mimic while his dupes were out, they would immediately disappear, because he would no longer have the multiple selves power for the duration of the mimic.

You are correct!

[Rahmota]

Okay true when mimicing someone your powers are replaced by theirs except for mimic. However under multiple selves it does not say that the copy fades if the original has their powers negated or is unconscious. Only if the original is killed do the duplicates fade. Also the copies can appear to go off on their own with no range limits which theoretically by the way I understand it mean that one could go to alpha centauri and the original could stay on earth and there would be no big deal other than the original could not reabsorb the duplicate.

Example: Say you have a scanner/printer. You make a printout of a document. You now have two documents, one on the computer and one on paper. If the scanner is unplugged you cannot bring that document back into the computer but it still exists seperate from the original. Each can be changed or destroyed seperate from the other except that if the original is destroyed the paper one is also destroyed.

I think that makes sense. To me at least.

Thats why I was more curious as I did not see the copy dissapating when the prime used his mimic powers. And had already in game allowed the copies to remain when the prime had their powers negated. My wife has a character that has a twin sister now because the prime had had her powers mutated after making a copy and when she lost the multiple selves power the copy could no longer be re-absorbed so therefore was a seperate person in her own right.

Thank you though for the answers and ideas though. It is rather interesting how the various power combinations can do some strange effects.

[Steeler49er]

He's gotta point about the copies not dissappearing!
I agreed with everything znbrtn, so I didn't bother to chime in innitially, but the fact is the books only allow you to Reabsorb Copies at a Limited distance from yourself... Any further is not possable and the only way at that point to cause the clones to "Go away" is to kill them!

If negation and the usage of Mimic, & other power disrupting abilities fer that matter, whipes-out your Clones even at Galactic distances, where do they go?
Do they;
A) just temp phase outta existance and return at effect "A"s end?
B) Do you re-absorb them even if beyond your Normal range?
C) Do they get to resist the Negations effects, or are they simply immune?
Yah gotta know cuz, Any one of these could be abused.

•If you say that they Phase out when you do use you Mimic at ranges Greater than what Multiple-Beings can absorb, then you can use this as a Power Stunt of sorts so as to have clones dissappear & reappear after a time. Could be useful IF you could get your timing right. (plus you had a cell phone).
•If you say that they Resist or are immune, well the bennys are obvious.
•If you say that they get Reabsorbed, even when they're Well beyond the max absorbtion range, then this could be used to utterly Ignore theAbsorbtion Range flaw (at least under those circumstances when you don't mind absorbing Every clone that is out!)


All good questions to ask!

And it SHOULD be pointed out that, if you've been playing it (as a GM of Player) that your Mimicry power has Not been replacing all your Other powers, it Is okay and Perfered to keep it that way and Not to Ret Con the ability short like this!
WHY you ask?
Well, because it is how Lotsa Palladium Role Players had played the MIMICRY SP fer over a decade! As it turns out, the write-up of Mimicry in the first & second edition Heroes Unlimited books said that you "Keep All of your Abilities"-end quote.
This (at the time) include and frankly flat out ment that you could Still use all of your normal powers ON TOP OF the powers that you Mimicked!
The Newest HU book ret-con'd this fact out of existance (as well as many other things it screwed with) by saying "All of your [super] abilities are replaced with those of which you mimicked".

So, it IS possable fer you to play Both versions of the power in your game and it'd be totally Copasetic thing to do... It's what, in fact, I happen to do. If you've allowed it up till now, don't disrespect the Role Player or the experiance with unnessisary and ditestable Ret Cons of the story, if it's work that way up till now, let it continue to work that way.
Next game you get a plyer with mimicry, you can use it the new way (if you like that is... It is, after all, your game).

[Mr Scorpio]

Okay here is the problem I had last night: A character has Multiple selves and mimic. The character makes a copy of himself. Character prime then mimics the fast dude. Character Beta then mimics the flamer. Character prime then reabsorbs character beta. What happens?
A: Character prime now has both Flamer's and fast dide's powers.
B: Character prime now has only fast dude's power
C: Character prime now has only flamer's power.
D: Character prime has neither power.
E: Character prime explodes.

Last night I made the quickie ruling that last in first out is how that would work. So what do you think?

Okay true when mimicing someone your powers are replaced by theirs except for mimic.

When the prime character mimiced the powers of someone else he temporarily lost his ability to make AND reabsorb copies of himself. If the power is shut off so he can't make any more copies then there is no way for him to reabsorb the copies anymore either, right?

When the alpha character looses his duplication power (either temporarily or permanently) then he shouldn't be able to sense what his duplicates are feeling or their state of health or even their location the way he can normally. In fact if the power is lost permanently then the duplicate(s) could even become completely independent. I mean, the prime character is no longer the clear leader and they don't have to "obey him without question or hesitation". I wouldn't do what I told me if I didn't have to. Who am I to be telling me what to do, right?

[Stone Gargoyle]

I wouldn't do what I told me if I didn't have to. Who am I to be telling me what to do, right?

I guess it would depend on how much you trusted your own judgement. But each of me would be such an egomaniac there would be no controlling me(s).

[NMI]

So if a Multiple killed another of its "multiples", would it be consider suicide?
What is a multiple killed its creator? Is that like killing a parent?

[Stone Gargoyle]

So if a Multiple killed another of its "multiples", would it be consider suicide?
What is a multiple killed its creator? Is that like killing a parent?

That would actually be considered akin to the debate regarding whether a clone is a person. I would think that it would be considered murder if they found a body.

[Steeler49er]

Well... Mr. Scorpio, It seems you found an alternate option which I never thought of, and This option seems to prevent potential game abuses By me as well. Hats off to yah (You Munchkin KILLER! )

I wouldn't do what I told me if I didn't have to. Who am I to be telling me what to do, right?

I guess it would depend on how much you trusted your own judgement. But each of me would be such an egomaniac there would be no controlling me(s).

WOW... I never knew SG1 and I had sooo much in comon
Any clones of Me would be undyingly loyal to me and we would seek to control Lynnwood WA through Mass suterfuge! Either that or One of us would work all day, an Other one would stay with my wife & Daughter to protect them, then I would go to school all day (scine I'm the only one that can Learn).

If I had more of me... I'd create a criminal sydicate.

[Steeler49er]

So if a Multiple killed another of its "multiples", would it be consider suicide?
What is a multiple killed its creator? Is that like killing a parent?

That would actually be considered akin to the debate regarding whether a clone is a person. I would think that it would be considered murder if they found a body.

Wait... Are you implying murder only counts when a body is "found"?
If so, I gotta work Extra hard to never p!ss You off... Lest you dispose of me Mafia style!


D.A.-"Mr. Ken Dowsland, aka SG1, Aka Stone Gargoyle, AKA The Roof Top Reapier, Head of the notorious Gang, The Star Ship Floopers, did on the night of October 31st in the year of two thousand and nine stalk and kill one Mr. Rick Steeler for his Delicious Bag 'O' Candy (No sexual connotation at this time) which he [The Victim] did obtain himself from prodigious amounts of trick or treating (Connotation implied) that night by pretending to be a child in a 7foot tall Zenomorph Costume! The state demands Justice!"
Judge Judy-"Mr. 'Stone (face) Gargoyle' Dowsland.... How do you plead?"
Ken D. (AKA Stone Gargoyle)-"I pleads like umm, Nots Guiltys yer Honors! Like Ana counts of sees, That theyz nevers founs no Bodies... Heh heh heh ".
Dan Lewis-"That's right Kathy, Mr. Dowland has been released due to lack of evidence in the Candy Slaying of Rick Steeler... You heard it hear First at KOMO 4 news in Seattle... Americas First Channel for News."









________________________________________________________________________________________________________________RATTZ
☻

[Stone Gargoyle]

So if a Multiple killed another of its "multiples", would it be consider suicide?
What is a multiple killed its creator? Is that like killing a parent?

That would actually be considered akin to the debate regarding whether a clone is a person. I would think that it would be considered murder if they found a body.

Wait... Are you implying murder only counts when a body is "found"?
If so, I gotta work Extra hard to never p!ss You off... Lest you dispose of me Mafia style!


D.A.-"Mr. Ken Dowsland, aka SG1, Aka Stone Gargoyle, AKA The Roof Top Reapier, Head of the notorious Gang, The Star Ship Floopers, did on the night of October 31st in the year of two thousand and nine stalk and kill one Mr. Rick Steeler for his Delicious Bag 'O' Candy (No sexual connotation at this time) which he [The Victim] did obtain himself from prodigious amounts of trick or treating (Connotation implied) that night by pretending to be a child in a 7foot tall Zenomorph Costume! The state demands Justice!"
Judge Judy-"Mr. 'Stone (face) Gargoyle' Dowsland.... How do you plead?"
Ken D. (AKA Stone Gargoyle)-"I pleads like umm, Nots Guiltys yer Honors! Like Ana counts of sees, That theyz nevers founs no Bodies... Heh heh heh ".
Dan Lewis-"That's right Kathy, Mr. Dowland has been released due to lack of evidence in the Candy Slaying of Rick Steeler... You heard it hear First at KOMO 4 news in Seattle... Americas First Channel for News."

So are you wanting to use Multiple Selves to fake your own death? And how did you find out I am the Rooftop Reaper?

Ooh, bag o'candy...

[Nemo235]

Notice on page 74 under "Combining Super Abilities" it says:
"Characters who might have two different Alter Physical Structure powers cannot use them at the same time; pick one or the other."
Multiple Beings/Selves is on that list.

Later on the same page it says Mimic with Shapechange is a good combination despite the earlier note about not combining Alter Physical Structure powers and the fact that character cannot use his other powers while Mimic is on and Mimic copies unusual physical traits already.

Question time!

1. Can a character only Mimic one other character at a time?
I would say yes, because it says his other super abilities are replaced, except for Mimic.

2. What does happen to copies if Multiple B/S is Negated or something similar?
With no range, normally they only disappear if they are reabsorbed or the original dies.
GM call. It could be interesting. What if a copy goes rogue?

3. Carbon Copy Man ( I'm sure someone has already thought of this.)
Character A has Mimic and Multiple B/S.
.A Makes a copy, B, who has Mimic and Multiple B/S.
..B Mimics A's Multi B/S.
..B Makes a copy, C, who has Mimic and Multiple B/S.
...C Mimics A's Multi B/S.
...C Makes a copy, D, who has Mimic and Multiple B/S.
....D Mimics A's Multi B/S.
....D Makes a copy, E, who has Mimic and Multiple B/S.
.....E Mimics A's Multi B/S.
.....ETC.....
Instant army squad. Get the dice ready. That's alot of initiative rolls.

*Edeted 4 splling*

[Gryphon Chick]

Copies made by Multiple Bodies/Selves have every one of the hero's powers except Multiple Bodies/Selves and cannot make more copies, period. There is no mimicking that ability in the original, regardless. I would rule that the copies could not mimic the original since they already have all his abilities.

[NMI]

Here is a question regarding the "Multiple Selves/Mimic" combo.
Imagine this, what if the duplicate were to mimic someone else other then its creator and fellow duplicates who happens to have "Multiple Selves". Rare, but possible.

[NMI]

yes.. if that happened, would the copy make a copy of itself, its creator or the other being with the power?

Well it is called "Multiple Selves" not Multiple Others
The creator and the dupe are one in the same. So if the dupe created a dupe in the above round about fashion, then it is making a copy of itself/creator.

[Steeler49er]

So are you wanting to use Multiple Selves to fake your own death? And how did you find out I am the Rooftop Reaper?

Ooh, bag o'candy...

We are the Flooper Masons... We know much, and you villiany allows us to hide in plain sight- Bwaha ha ha ha

[Steeler49er]

Copies made by Multiple Bodies/Selves have every one of the hero's powers except Multiple Bodies/Selves and cannot make more copies, period. There is no mimicking that ability in the original, regardless. I would rule that the copies could not mimic the original since they already have all his abilities.

You say "Period", yet the power of mimicry says you gain "All of the Targets powers" and "Lose all of you own"!
Pretty much self explainitory, you're reading the text totally backwards saying that "since the clones gain all powers But Multiple Beings from the Originator, they Can't EVER have it!"... And that ain't what the books said at all. Mimicry was listed with Shape Shifting as being a power you can combo with Right After saying NO TWO APS POWERS CAN WORK IN TANDUM!! This therefor excludes either Mimicry or Shape Shifting (by default) from the list of APS powers. The name "Shape Shifting" says it all and is Clearly an APS power so, it can be used with Multiple Beings. That said, Multiple Being Clearly says that the clones inherit ALL of the originals powers Except "the ability to make More copies"-end quote.

Nothing is EVER said about them "never being able to Gain the power to multiply!", only that they "do not INHERIT it", which is (according to all that is logical... And according to dictionary deffinitions of the word Inherit) totally differant.

It is clearly hard of a thing for you to swallow, as evident by your total willingness to misread butcher the books fluff text so as to find it in favor of your personal feelings and reservations but, regardless of your personal fears of a single munchkin getting ahold of these two powers, the Book says you can do this... Period.

And this is where you must now do the unthinkable and, "Rely on reason logic and J U D G M E N T, and Not be Dependant on the Author to come up with Every, Little, Addenda for any issues fears you may have.

As VET GM I have allowed players to go Munchkin crazy and conversly I have restricted them from just about everything under the sun. I can do both and everything inbetween because I'm a good GM that uses Reason, logic, common sence and good Judgement (and according to them I'm one of the best GMs ever, which says something considering They are considered some of the most Top notch GMs in Seattle).

So if you don't like it, don't allow it. That has always been the standing rule, but don't go getting Kevin to change the books so as to fit your personal dislikes, and thus spoil the game fer all of the rest of Us. That is likely what happened to cause that stupid, illogical, and broken "No two APS powers in tandm" rule to be made in the First place, and it has been a Constant source of problems and issue from day one of it's existance.

I personally HAVE allowed the "Dreaded" Mimicry+Multiple Beings on two separate occasions and doing so didn't do squat to harm game balance. Both times the players had legit reasons fer the combo, both times they R-played the event(s) w/o ruining the game.
And 'I' Personally have also used the combo Myself once as an NPC villian as it was the ONLY way I could Recreate a Specific comic Book Villian who's name and Big Name comic company (and it's Not who you think) Shall remain nameless, in a cross-over game I GMed. No problems in any of the three cases.

All that said, because it's all been done Three times I've made it clear to my players that "due to the ussumed rarity of this rare combo of powers, this combo is no longer on the table as it has been played to death."

They've agreed and felt I was logical, fair, and that I'd proved that I wasn't just saying No because of personal issues. In otherwords, I did what a GM/ST/DM is supposed to do...
I used proper Judgement.

[Overlord Rikonius]

Okay here is the problem I had last night: A character has Multiple selves and mimic. The character makes a copy of himself. Character prime then mimics the fast dude. Character Beta then mimics the flamer. Character prime then reabsorbs character beta. What happens?
A: Character prime now has both Flamer's and fast dide's powers.
B: Character prime now has only fast dude's power
C: Character prime now has only flamer's power.
D: Character prime has neither power.
E: Character prime explodes.

Last night I made the quickie ruling that last in first out is how that would work. So what do you think?

If a dupe gets a tattoo and is reabsorbed, does the original have one?
If the dupe is wounded or bruised, is the original wounded or bruised upon reabsorption?
If the dupe gets drunk is the original drunk on reabsorption?
If the dupe dyes his hair bright pink, does the original's hair look freakish on re-absorption?

I'd say mimicked powers should be treated like the above.

[Stone Gargoyle]

It is clearly hard of a thing for you to swallow, as evident by your total willingness to misread butcher the books fluff text so as to find it in favor of your personal feelings and reservations but, regardless of your personal fears of a single munchkin getting ahold of these two powers, the Book says you can do this... Period.

Getting kind of insulting there, Steeler, considering all she did was state an opinion.

And this is where you must now do the unthinkable and, "Rely on reason logic and J U D G M E N T, and Not be Dependant on the Author to come up with Every, Little, Addenda for any issues fears you may have.

Again, you are being unnecessarily insulting and personal. Some people choose a more strict interpretation of the rules. That does not denote fear, it denotes caution.

As VET GM I have allowed players to go Munchkin crazy and conversly I have restricted them from just about everything under the sun. I can do both and everything inbetween because I'm a good GM that uses Reason, logic, common sence and good Judgement (and according to them I'm one of the best GMs ever, which says something considering They are considered some of the most Top notch GMs in Seattle).

Please, I do not have my wading boots on for me to be hearing that. Unless you have gamed with every single other GM, you cannot make such a claim, and you embarass yourself by doing so.

All that said, because it's all been done Three times I've made it clear to my players that "due to the ussumed rarity of this rare combo of powers, this combo is no longer on the table as it has been played to death."

They've agreed and felt I was logical, fair, and that I'd proved that I wasn't just saying No because of personal issues. In otherwords, I did what a GM/ST/DM is supposed to do...
I used proper Judgement.

I just have a rule against using the same combo twice. Far from being geniuses, your players sound extremely munchkin, IMO, for being so simple-minded as to play the same things over and over.

[Gryphon Chick]

Copies made by Multiple Bodies/Selves have every one of the hero's powers except Multiple Bodies/Selves and cannot make more copies, period. There is no mimicking that ability in the original, regardless. I would rule that the copies could not mimic the original since they already have all his abilities.

You say "Period", yet the power of mimicry says you gain "All of the Targets powers" and "Lose all of you own"!

I am simply saying that is an asinine way to play. And the power says mimic OTHER PEOPLE, not yourself, which mimicking the original could be considered to be.

Pretty much self explainitory, you're reading the text totally backwards saying that "since the clones gain all powers But Multiple Beings from the Originator, they Can't EVER have it!"... And that ain't what the books said at all. Mimicry was listed with Shape Shifting as being a power you can combo with Right After saying NO TWO APS POWERS CAN WORK IN TANDUM!! This therefor excludes either Mimicry or Shape Shifting (by default) from the list of APS powers. The name "Shape Shifting" says it all and is Clearly an APS power so, it can be used with Multiple Beings. That said, Multiple Being Clearly says that the clones inherit ALL of the originals powers Except "the ability to make More copies"-end quote.

Nothing is EVER said about them "never being able to Gain the power to multiply!", only that they "do not INHERIT it", which is (according to all that is logical... And according to dictionary deffinitions of the word Inherit) totally differant.

The rules are really a matter of interpretation. One could easily rule that the gods/physics would not permit them the power because it would retard the original sample,the whole cloning a clone issue.

It is clearly hard of a thing for you to swallow, as evident by your total willingness to misread butcher the books fluff text so as to find it in favor of your personal feelings and reservations but, regardless of your personal fears of a single munchkin getting ahold of these two powers, the Book says you can do this... Period.

I am not fearful, merely cautious because I know my limits as far as being able to control the game when unbalancing factors are involved.

And this is where you must now do the unthinkable and, "Rely on reason logic and J U D G M E N T, and Not be Dependant on the Author to come up with Every, Little, Addenda for any issues fears you may have.

You really are being extremely rude about this.

As VET GM I have allowed players to go Munchkin crazy and conversly I have restricted them from just about everything under the sun. I can do both and everything inbetween because I'm a good GM that uses Reason, logic, common sence and good Judgement (and according to them I'm one of the best GMs ever, which says something considering They are considered some of the most Top notch GMs in Seattle).

I could say quite the opposite about you given your apparent lack of ability to run a balanced game, but that is not really my place to say. Nor is it your place to judge me as you seem wont to do.

So if you don't like it, don't allow it. That has always been the standing rule, but don't go getting Kevin to change the books so as to fit your personal dislikes, and thus spoil the game fer all of the rest of Us. That is likely what happened to cause that stupid, illogical, and broken "No two APS powers in tandm" rule to be made in the First place, and it has been a Constant source of problems and issue from day one of it's existance.

How does stating my opinion constitute asking for books to be changed? Are you even capable of reading what I said? Apparently not, since you seem to want to misinterpret it.

I personally HAVE allowed the "Dreaded" Mimicry+Multiple Beings on two separate occasions and doing so didn't do squat to harm game balance.

So you actually claim to know what game balance is, then?

Both times the players had legit reasons fer the combo, both times they R-played the event(s) w/o ruining the game.

That is all well and good for you. What do you want, a cookie and a pat on the head?

And 'I' Personally have also used the combo Myself once as an NPC villian as it was the ONLY way I could Recreate a Specific comic Book Villian who's name and Big Name comic company (and it's Not who you think) Shall remain nameless, in a cross-over game I GMed. No problems in any of the three cases.

All I have to go on is your word on that. I would rather trust my own experiences and those of people I know personally and have gamed with.

All that said, because it's all been done Three times I've made it clear to my players that "due to the ussumed rarity of this rare combo of powers, this combo is no longer on the table as it has been played to death."

Your players must have a severe lack of creativity and imagination to continuously play the SAME power combos over and over.

They've agreed and felt I was logical, fair, and that I'd proved that I wasn't just saying No because of personal issues. In otherwords, I did what a GM/ST/DM is supposed to do...
I used proper Judgement.

Wow, you really seem like a jerk. Do you kiss the mirror in the morning to show how much you love yourself? Given your long-winded post, you clearly like hearing yourself talk. Oh, I am sorry if that was insulting, but that seems to be all you want to do in your post- throw insults.

[NMI]

Warning: Everyone here needs to play/post nicely otherwise warnings will be issued and this thread locked. - NMI

[Steeler49er]

A few points of note fer yawl.
A) To Gryphon Chick (Only), sorry fer getting up in your face. I got pissed about something else happening on this end of the computer and it came out in my writings to you. That was WAY to harsh of me and out of line of me. You didn't deserve it and I'm honestly sorry to upset you.

B) Attacking my players... No they're not munchkins, some are some are not. The ones that were are no longer my friends, Nor players because of such abuses. As to me being bad fer letting them play this power more than once, That's not correct. Like I said, it's been use by my players under Very differing terms. One play actually had the power Combo "Multiple-Beings + Mimicry". This player could ONLY use mimicry for the express use of Mimicry.
The second player was someone who had Mimicry and who used it to copy a villian during a Single battle who had the Mult-B power. When he created the first clone he got the idea to use the powers in tandum to Out copy the villian (which suprised the villian and caused him to give up based off the show of force) and lead to a bloodless surrender.

Your players must have a severe lack of creativity and imagination to continuously play the SAME power combos over and over.

Incorrect. You seem to have forgotten that I'm a GM... as such I have had a large player base of 60+/- players over the years. Attacking them for a lack of creativity if they done this twice would make sence, but the ones who did this were players from two separate groups separated by 10 years.

C) Yes Gryphon, you are correct that I've got an ego and take to kissing the mirror, but my experiance as a GM still stands. Correction-Stood, I'm Not a GM anymore, but I was for 15+ years and I Was good at it, I made a point of being so. Outta 60+/- players and 50+ games run I'd say that I'd done a darn good job. 45 players out of 60 liked me enogh to ask for me continuously. I put all of my efforts into being the best GM that I could be. So yeah, I was great, whether I'm as skilled now or not, I'd say no to that.

So again, sorry for taking multiple pop shots at you. You were stating you opinion and had a right to, but it was your use of the word "Period" that changed Opinion into a statement of Fact, and it is not correct. It IS your opinion and you stated it as otherwise.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I think we all just need to argue the points and not attack each other. EGO = Everyone's Got Opinions. Just keep in mind that we are all of us stating opinions, as not one of us works for Palladium Books. Nothing can be made officially "fact" except by them as far as canon use of powers. All we can state is how we use them, which may be fact to us but opinion to others. So try not to attack people on a personal level just because they believe something to be fact, since that belief is still just their opinion.

[Rahmota]

Ahhhhh okay. I see that things have gottena bit warm in here and I thank all of you for the interesting discussion that have been useful or otherwise helpful. To add to the discussion about duplicates here are the way we ahve already run the duplicates in our game:
1: Subtractions from the duplicates are not reabsorbed to the original. Ie if a duplicate looses an extremety or has a surgical operation to remove a tooth or somethign then it does not happen to the original when they reabsorb the duplicate.

2: Additions to the duplicates are reabsorbed to the original. Ie if the duplicate gets pregnant and is reabsorbed the original is pregnant now. If the duplicate gets a tattoo the original has a tattoo.

3: The duplicates are essentially free willed aspects of the original character so they will not be 100% obedient nor will they be 100% identical in their actions and personality. 90% or better is more than likely with occasionally under 1% being possible.

4: There is utterly no range limit or time limit on the seperation between the duplicate and the original.

anyhow thank you.

[Rahmota]

I'm curious as to how you came to this decision? I ask because we have a contradiction here. In the first statement you don't allow changes, but in the second you do. Although you are talking about subtractions and additions, they are all, incidentally, changes to the copy that can affect the original.

How did you come up with this ruling?

Actually its not really contradictory if you look at it from a certain POV. I've worked with photography and my mother had her own photo studio so run with me on this mental exercise and I shall explain it to you:

Imagine that the original is a photo graphic slide. When you shine a light on that slide you are essentially making a copy of that slide on the wall. Same thign if you take that slide expose a piece of photo paper to it or make another slide. If you transpose the two slides and shine a light through them they match up on the wall and there is no change.

If you subtract somethign from the duplicate slide and then align the two slides up again and shien the light through them the original still has the part that is missing so it still shines through onto the wall as a whole image.

But if you add somethign to the duplicate and then align the slides and shien the light through the new addition also shines throuhg on the wall and makes the change.

See what I'm getting at? The original's life force or whatever is strong enough that it can overcome any subtractions. however if you add to the energy being reabsorbed it has to show up somewhere.

Also while we have not had anythign like this occur yet I suppose if a great enough change where to occur to the duplicate then it might not be recognizable to the original's life energy or whatever mechanisms you want to say creates the duplicate that it would be a "dead" duplicate. I say major enough changes like being youthed or aged by more than a few months, gender changes or other extreme changes such as genetically manipulating it into an animal, undead, or a material other than a living being would be sufficient to nullify the ability to be reabsorbed and would probably activate the if the duplicate is killed clause.

[Overlord Rikonius]

I'm curious as to how you came to this decision? I ask because we have a contradiction here. In the first statement you don't allow changes, but in the second you do. Although you are talking about subtractions and additions, they are all, incidentally, changes to the copy that can affect the original.

How did you come up with this ruling?

Actually its not really contradictory if you look at it from a certain POV. I've worked with photography and my mother had her own photo studio so run with me on this mental exercise and I shall explain it to you:

Imagine that the original is a photo graphic slide. When you shine a light on that slide you are essentially making a copy of that slide on the wall. Same thign if you take that slide expose a piece of photo paper to it or make another slide. If you transpose the two slides and shine a light through them they match up on the wall and there is no change.

If you subtract somethign from the duplicate slide and then align the two slides up again and shien the light through them the original still has the part that is missing so it still shines through onto the wall as a whole image.

But if you add somethign to the duplicate and then align the slides and shien the light through the new addition also shines throuhg on the wall and makes the change.

See what I'm getting at? The original's life force or whatever is strong enough that it can overcome any subtractions. however if you add to the energy being reabsorbed it has to show up somewhere.

Also while we have not had anythign like this occur yet I suppose if a great enough change where to occur to the duplicate then it might not be recognizable to the original's life energy or whatever mechanisms you want to say creates the duplicate that it would be a "dead" duplicate. I say major enough changes like being youthed or aged by more than a few months, gender changes or other extreme changes such as genetically manipulating it into an animal, undead, or a material other than a living being would be sufficient to nullify the ability to be reabsorbed and would probably activate the if the duplicate is killed clause.

Interesting, but I thought of a funky thought experiment.
Bob dupes himself. The dupe loses a finger, and gets a transplant. Then gets re-absorbed. Does Bob now have 6 fingers?
Or if a doc removes that one thing bone from his forearm, and adds another, does he now have 3 bones in there instead of two?
Or in such cases would the loss and addition cancel each other out?

[Gryphon Chick]

A few points of note fer yawl.
A) To Gryphon Chick (Only), sorry fer getting up in your face. I got pissed about something else happening on this end of the computer and it came out in my writings to you. That was WAY to harsh of me and out of line of me. You didn't deserve it and I'm honestly sorry to upset you.

Well, that is due to happen now and then.

B) Attacking my players... No they're not munchkins, some are some are not. The ones that were are no longer my friends, Nor players because of such abuses. As to me being bad fer letting them play this power more than once, That's not correct. Like I said, it's been use by my players under Very differing terms. One play actually had the power Combo "Multiple-Beings + Mimicry". This player could ONLY use mimicry for the express use of Mimicry.
The second player was someone who had Mimicry and who used it to copy a villian during a Single battle who had the Mult-B power. When he created the first clone he got the idea to use the powers in tandum to Out copy the villian (which suprised the villian and caused him to give up based off the show of force) and lead to a bloodless surrender...
You seem to have forgotten that I'm a GM... as such I have had a large player base of 60+/- players over the years. Attacking them for a lack of creativity if they done this twice would make sence, but the ones who did this were players from two separate groups separated by 10 years.

You just made it sound like you did it all the time.

C) Yes Gryphon, you are correct that I've got an ego and take to kissing the mirror, but my experiance as a GM still stands. Correction-Stood, I'm Not a GM anymore, but I was for 15+ years and I Was good at it, I made a point of being so. Outta 60+/- players and 50+ games run I'd say that I'd done a darn good job. 45 players out of 60 liked me enogh to ask for me continuously. I put all of my efforts into being the best GM that I could be. So yeah, I was great, whether I'm as skilled now or not, I'd say no to that.

It just seems like you were being overly boastful. I apologize for my remarks as well.

So again, sorry for taking multiple pop shots at you. You were stating you opinion and had a right to, but it was your use of the word "Period" that changed Opinion into a statement of Fact, and it is not correct. It IS your opinion and you stated it as otherwise.

I was simply punctuating my point, not trying to come across as an expert. But that is neither here nor there now.

[Gryphon Chick]

... so is that fight thing over now?

The arguing is tabled for now given there has been an understanding reached, so yes.

[Steeler49er]

FYI-I was being a Jerk out of season because I've been getting sick fer the last 5 days now and have been a P##k to every single person around me. I tend to rage at the universe and everyone in it when I'm sick. I tend to get sick when I go on very little and or broken sleep fer weeks at a time, Which, considering that I'm married to an WoW addict who's up doing Raids on her Rave-Pink haired Might Morphin Midget Gnome-Deathknight till 3:30am on her laptop while in bed while I'm trying to sleep, which causes me to (at some point) not beable to get BACK to sleep (after being awoken fer the 20th time-not kidding... 20th) and I finally pass out at around 6 or 7am... Only to awoken at 8am by my daughter who thinks my face is silly putty and that my nose is detachable if she applies Enough force to it.

This on going problem got me to the point of having no immune system and getting sick to the point that, it Finally ###### me off the night I made that rude post. I was sooo angry with her that I F-up and didn't realize how rudely I was writting...
That and, for some reason I started commenting like I was reponding to Nekira Sudacne's and not you. And I tend to guve her Both Barrels when I post on something she says.


So I'm REALLY sorry Gryphon.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I am not trying to derail the thread, so I will just say that my girlfriend is also a WOW addict, but fortunately I don't live with her yet. She is usually up til only 1 a.m., also.
Just think, Steeler, if you had Multiple Selves you could take turns going somewhere else to sleep.

[Steeler49er]

THAT WOULD BE SOOO KOOL!
But then again, I'd like to have one of those "Dimmensional Rooms"... I'd just sleep there (and yes, I'm aware they don't have much of an air supply... But that may be a good thing ).

About the D-Room and Multiple Beings post from awhile back, was there ever a consensus on what this combo gets you? Was it all one room or was it agreed that Each Copy gains one of their own?

[Stone Gargoyle]

About the D-Room and Multiple Beings post from awhile back, was there ever a consensus on what this combo gets you? Was it all one room or was it agreed that Each Copy gains one of their own?

I surfed the forum and read that it is separate rooms, so as to to avoid the potential connected room intercontinental crossover cheat teleport.

[Steeler49er]

Awww Shaz-bot
There goes my clone cheating ways...




And I'm still sick to boot
But I'm not in that bizzare bad mood anymore... I'm hoping it don't come back cuz, I was emotionally Messed-up.

[Rahmota]

Bob dupes himself. The dupe loses a finger, and gets a transplant. Then gets re-absorbed. Does Bob now have 6 fingers?
Or if a doc removes that one thing bone from his forearm, and adds another, does he now have 3 bones in there instead of two?
Or in such cases would the loss and addition cancel each other out?

Okay interesting thought but if the transplant is to replace a finger then no Bob Prime does not have 6 fingers. Actually the way we run it one way to instantly heal a duplicate is to reabsorb them and then expell them again. As it doesnt exactly say they are or are not injured still when they come out. Or if it does I have missed it.

Basically as long as its replacing bio with bio and not adding anything then there is no problem. Only actual additions change the prime.

Yeah D-Rooms are individually produced and not linked.

[Mr Scorpio]

Actually the way we run it one way to instantly heal a duplicate is to reabsorb them and then expell them again. As it doesnt exactly say they are or are not injured still when they come out. Or if it does I have missed it.

All it really says is that once injured copies are reabsorbed they "are completely restored within 48 hours." I'm assuming that means even if they are at the brink of death. I'd have to guess that means that the duplicates would still be injured if they were released before the 48 hours is up.

1: Subtractions from the duplicates are not reabsorbed to the original. Ie if a duplicate looses an extremety or has a surgical operation to remove a tooth or somethign then it does not happen to the original when they reabsorb the duplicate.

2: Additions to the duplicates are reabsorbed to the original. Ie if the duplicate gets pregnant and is reabsorbed the original is pregnant now. If the duplicate gets a tattoo the original has a tattoo.

After rereading the part about being able to save the duplicates who are on the verge of death by reabsorbing them I'd have to say that the way you play it would scare me away from this power. If the ink from the tattoo is transferred from the duplicate to the original so would the half a dozen bullets in the chest of my dieing duplicate, right?

[Stone Gargoyle]

I guess I have a hard time with additions being absorbed into the original. What happens if a duplicate gets a full bionic conversion and is then reabsorbed. What happens to the cybernetic implants/conversion stuff? Does the original then have not only living tissue, but also cybernetic stuff as well?

I think there becomes a point where the copy is no longer able to be absorbed. I agree with Mr. Scorpio's comment about the bullets.

[Rahmota]

Okay the way I run it is that cybernetics, metallic objects embedded in the duplicate such as bullets and knives are not reabsorbed so long as the duplicate still has life force available to be reabsorbed. As metallic objects are technically a subtraction from the life force of the duplicate they would not be reabsorbed. Considering how the duplicate is formed totally naked with no material belongings it has nothign to bring back in so the clothes its wearing are not reabsorbed either. I guess I was not exactly clear on that.

When the duplicate is formed it is formed naked and just appears standing beside the prime in the safest place. Ie if the prime is standing on a thin ledge above a lava pit the duplicate also appears on that ledge.

When the duplicate is reabsorbed all items the duplicate is wearing, holding or otherwise is attached to is not reabsorbed. This means that if the duplicate is locked in a glass box wearing a straight jacket and being lowered into a chipper shredder they can be reabsorbed and saved.

And yes there is a point when the duplicate becomes altered so much that it cannot be reabsorbed. Usually through genetic alteration such as transgendering, mutations, etc..

Physical mutilation such as having an arm torn off, severe burns etc... are subtractions from the life energy so they are not reabsorbed into the prime. Piercings, and other foreign material insertions like that are also subtractions.

Physical additions such as tattoos, pregnancy, suntans, are all reabsorbed as they are increasing the life energy.

Does that make more sense?

[Stone Gargoyle]

Wow, Mimic replaces all powers?

What a trip, I just caught that in this thread.

When you use Mimic, it replaces your powers with the ones you are mimicking. You still have your powers, but they are not accessible while you are mimicking someone else.

[Gryphon Chick]

Well, not in my book, so I'll pretend it never happened... cause it's stupid.

People are free to run their games as they see fit, so your statement insulting it is unnecessary. You only make yourself sound less intelligent by such a statement as this which insult the makers of the game whose forums these are, and risk your expulsion from the boards.

[gaby]

Are ther Rules for making a Power armor in H.U?

What Power Catagories are Power Armors in?

How common are they in your H.U,s Games?

[Stone Gargoyle]

Are ther Rules for making a Power armor in H.U?

What Power Catagories are Power Armors in?

How common are they in your H.U,s Games?

They are in Robotics. You are supposed to create a new thread for a new question, though, not derail existing threads.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I just ignore any power combo usage limits as stated in the books and rule things case by case. This one, however, makes sense to me. Of course, if I do not like a power as written, I write a new version of it and give players options. The New Powers thread has dozens of alternate Mimic powers, most of which are in the Black Vault Wiki.

http://wiki.thedeificnmi.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

[Gryphon Chick]

I'm pretty sure if I was going to get banned, I would have been banned by now.

If you say so. I have not been here long, so I have no idea what the limits are as far as that goes.

[Steeler49er]

So Max, ol buddy old pal... Your "book doesn't say that" about Mimicry?
Does that mean that you've got the second edition like I have? If so you are correct. Heroes Unlimited Second Ed allows fer ALL ppowers to remain active while Mimicking another person... Kinda like Rouge (only not as bad ars as her). The Newer HU Main Book changed that on you, sorry.

But you can do what I did, which is allow fer BOTH versions! Not that I've had players ever really want this power to often in 20 years of play. Anywho...
I gots a video fer you MAX...
I don't know if you've seen it yet but, I kinda figured that you'd be the only one to get it as much as I did, as it's right up yours and my alley.

It's a new movie coming out next year/five years ago called ICE AGE 4D