My Xitixix killer idea (Trouble shoot it with me)

[rat_bastard]

Ok, my idea is to make a modern dirigible and mount a bunch of bottom mounted long range lasers on a MDC rigid airship and flying it over Xitixix airspace shooting gleefully at any bugs flying around.

Modern Airships can do about 90 mph, and fly anywhere from 10 feet to 70,000 feet of the ground and can be easily weigh 100 tons.

So I'm thinking that the airship itself should be 10 tons with a 40 ton capacity, super solar powered and Helium filled, as the united states is the worlds largest producer of helium. The ship itself would be AI controlled using A Wilk's LASCOM to maintain communications with a human director. The Airship would normally mount 10 4 ton energy cannons with a 2-3 mile effective range and independent Radar, AIs and power sources all programed to target Bugs in this order:
Large armed bugs, small armed bugs, large bugs, small bugs Hives.
I'm thinking the damage of a pulse rifle and the range of artillery, not exactly unreasonable considering each would be 4 tons of tech.

The bugs have pretty good range on their TK rifles, but they can't perceive things past that range, as far as we know they have no concept of radar, telescopes, guided weapons or anything else that would enable them to effectively combat something that is 2 miles above them.

here are a few countermeasures they might think of, but I cannot see them working.

the bugs develop some sort of high altitude flyer:
Ok, but they have to get off the ground fly up to the blimp that is moving faster than most xitixix and survive, with multiple energy cannons shooting at them.

the Bugs develop some sort of anti aircraft gun:
Ok, so this is the most terrifying idea, but once they build it, I can develop any number of countermeasures to it, plus I can shoot back.

The bugs hide in their caves:
so the ship stays and keeps pounding the hive till they have no more cover.

The bugs spaz out attacking nearby settlements:
Suddenly North American civilizations become more interested in the 800-lb gorilla in the continent and start to fight back.

Why has nobody else tried this idea before?
Simply put, it would only work here. Anyone with Med range missiles, or jets or air elementals could shoot it down allot cheaper than I could field them, the CS could do this, but it would never work against their other threats.

anyone else got any ideas why this would not work?

[Killer Cyborg]

1. Is there any laser cannon listed in the books that is comparable to what you have here?
2. If the bugs can't fly high enough to reach you, then you could devastate their above-ground hive network. However, while the average xiticix might not be too smart, the queens are pretty intelligent.
Yes, the bugs would scatter out and start attacking any settlements/cities within range.
But also, I think that the hive would split into a number of groups and head out to start new colonies. You'd have to find each one with your balloon, and that could take some time.
Also, keep in mind that a lot of the hive complex is underground. The worst-case scenario for the bugs might be that they just start living mostly underground instead of in towers. This would not only protect them from your attacks, it would keep you from detecting their locations.
3. You have to land sometime.

[The Beast]

1. Is there any laser cannon listed in the books that is comparable to what you have here?

I'm fairly sure the are several starship weapons that could be used for this purpose. Also the are several tanks in various books. What's the average range on them?

[kevarin]

for the lasers i could see the cs coming up with something
in cs war campaign they have some 8000ft range lasers
so rework them some and i could see getting 10000 to 11000
ft out of them

now shooting at a hornets nest not a good idea but you might try it
just be sure to paint your closest enemies symbol on its side so when
the bugs do get to it they dont come after you they go after them

now i would give you a free fire zone on the bugs for a few min but
after some time there going to figure out shots are coming from above
go kill it and swarm that way even if they cant see or sense whats shooting
at them

now you give your blimp 90 mph so super warriors and hunters could catch it
supers go 160 mph and hunters 90mph now you could climb as they come after
you but some may over take you or get in weapons range for the tk rifles so there
is a chance with thousands or millions of bugs coming after it one of them
could get a lucky shot off and hurting it bad enough to bring it down


guided drop bombs might make a better weapon system for this type of attack

[rat_bastard]

1. Is there any laser cannon listed in the books that is comparable to what you have here?

Ok, this one is hard I may have to go rail gun because they seem to have the best range. Best range on a laser is a boom gun replacement- but I have confidence that my idea still works because the laser I am proposing would weigh four times what the suit weighs and thus would have much more room

2. If the bugs can't fly high enough to reach you, then you could devastate their above-ground hive network. However, while the average xiticix might not be too smart, the queens are pretty intelligent.
Yes, the bugs would scatter out and start attacking any settlements/cities within range.

sure, but queens are far easier to deal with once you have spent a day or two thinning out their hive.

But also, I think that the hive would split into a number of groups and head out to start new colonies. You'd have to find each one with your balloon, and that could take some time.
Also, keep in mind that a lot of the hive complex is underground. The worst-case scenario for the bugs might be that they just start living mostly underground instead of in towers. This would not only protect them from your attacks, it would keep you from detecting their locations.

I'm thinking taking Napalm-p fuel and treating it so that it is a thick aerosol so that we can drop guided bombs into the caves mouths and have a thick gas sink into the cave network before it is ignited doing minor mdc damage to the contents of the caves (and sucking the oxygen out) driving the bugs out.

3. You have to land sometime.

yup.

[rat_bastard]

I thought the bugs had a ceiling of around 40000ft.. your guns would have to have at least that range as a minimum.

the only listing I can find is 10,000 ft.

that said, Airships easily have a much higher ceiling.

so basically I need it to be about 4-5 miles off the air so it can hit targets nearly 2 miles in the air.

hitting hives should not be a problem.

[The Beast]

I thought the bugs had a ceiling of around 40000ft.. your guns would have to have at least that range as a minimum.

the only listing I can find is 10,000 ft.

that said, Airships easily have a much higher ceiling.

so basically I need it to be about 4-5 miles off the air so it can hit targets nearly 2 miles in the air.

hitting hives should not be a problem.

40,000 ft = just over 7.5 miles.

[Tiree]

Bombs, and MD Daisy Cutters are going to be your weapon of choice. Unless you upgrade to nukes. There is obviously the other choice is some sort of Biological or Chemical Weapon that would kill via gas contact.

But all of these weapons are best to be done at dusk or dawn.

[Talavar]

You could reconfigure land mines for use as bombs - the Naruni sell an anti-matter mine that does 1d4x100 MD with a blast radius of 500 feet, or more easily obtained, Northern Gun has plasma land mines that do 3d6x10 MD with a 70 foot blast radius.

[Shadyslug]

Now I know you've been drinking again...

[kevarin]

just use the guided multi-warhead nuke bomb 2D4x100 damage to a 50ft area
and have it outfitted with a limited targeting ai that can target openings
and shafts in the hive and go to town could attack from your max alt on
your blimp and the bugs would never know where it came from



and just to ask if its a multi- warhead bomb does each warhead do damage
or is the damage total from all the warheads ? and how many does each carry ?

[ZorValachan]

How high do the Killer satellites start to kick in? Go too low and bugs, too high and boom from orbit

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't think that the plan would work, but I do think that one of the smarter parts of it is trying to use a laser, because no matter what weapon you use, it's going to take a LOT of shots to do the job.
Missiles/bombs are very expensive.

Railguns are a decent second alternative (as Ratbastard brought up) because the ammo is going to be about as cheap as you can get without using an energy weapon, certainly cheaper than missiles, mines, or bombs.

Of course, the problem with even railguns is that you do eventually run out of ammunition (and there's the recoil factor).

With a laser weapon hooked to a nuclear power supply, you have as much ammo as you need for as long as the nuclear power supply lasts. If your fight goes on more than 20 years, you've probably got other problems besides ammunition.

[rat_bastard]

I don't think that the plan would work, but I do think that one of the smarter parts of it is trying to use a laser, because no matter what weapon you use, it's going to take a LOT of shots to do the job.
Missiles/bombs are very expensive.

Railguns are a decent second alternative (as Ratbastard brought up) because the ammo is going to be about as cheap as you can get without using an energy weapon, certainly cheaper than missiles, mines, or bombs.

Of course, the problem with even railguns is that you do eventually run out of ammunition (and there's the recoil factor).

With a laser weapon hooked to a nuclear power supply, you have as much ammo as you need for as long as the nuclear power supply lasts. If your fight goes on more than 20 years, you've probably got other problems besides ammunition.

At the end of the day I think you are correct, I feel low earth orbit killer satellite is still the best way to go about it though...

Probably particle beam which means dimensional travel.

[Tiree]

At the end of the day I think you are correct, I feel low earth orbit killer satellite is still the best way to go about it though...

Probably particle beam which means dimensional travel.

Or get Archie to build one for you... Possibly if you can hack into the Archie computer on the moon, you can re-align one for your own purposes...

[rat_bastard]

Some more ideas I have for killing the bugz:

1: Provide free or cheap mega damage weapons and armor to the psi-stalker tribes who hunt the xitixix. The advantages of the this plan are simple, all you have to do is be a middle man, the PPE levels are not going to spike in a dangerous fashion and it helps Psi stalkers, whom I like.

2: Develop a gaseous sticky resin that is cheap to manufacture. Poisons and bio weapons tend not to really work on supernatural bugs*, but they are insects which means they breath through their skin, so coating their skin in plastic with an aerosol weapon would theoretically suffocate them.

*yes KC, I know you are firmly in the not supernatural bugs camp, but I am approching this issue from the supernatural bugs point of view.

[The Beast]

I don't think that the plan would work, but I do think that one of the smarter parts of it is trying to use a laser, because no matter what weapon you use, it's going to take a LOT of shots to do the job.
Missiles/bombs are very expensive.

Well if Palladium had a plausible "bunker-buster" in game stats, you could use them to soften up most of the target before commencing laser bombardment.

[Tiree]

At the end of the day I think you are correct, I feel low earth orbit killer satellite is still the best way to go about it though...

Probably particle beam which means dimensional travel.

Or get Archie to build one for you... Possibly if you can hack into the Archie computer on the moon, you can re-align one for your own purposes...

How is he going to get to the moon? the Satellites would kill him before he got the Chance.

Probably the same way ARCHIE 3 does, use satellite links. Heck, it may even be possible/plausible that if rat_bastard was able to get to an old US missile strategic command location, use some Telemechanics, Object Read, Machine Ghost, etc... that he could get what he needs and communicate to the Sats in orbit pre-rifts. From there, who knows.

It all depends on how lenient the GM wants to be in the situation. Me, depending on how the player portrayed it, did enough research (rogue scholar finding the right bunker...), and basically a campaign to get there. I would probably allow something of that nature to work.

Once the guys in space understood what was happening, they would order a laser bombardment of the location, and the players would lose their little edge. But there would either be a) reduced threat of xitixix's or b) no threat at all.

[Killer Cyborg]

Some more ideas I have for killing the bugz:

1: Provide free or cheap mega damage weapons and armor to the psi-stalker tribes who hunt the xitixix. The advantages of the this plan are simple, all you have to do is be a middle man, the PPE levels are not going to spike in a dangerous fashion and it helps Psi stalkers, whom I like.

The armor would be the main thing.
As far as weapons go, Xiticix TK Rifles are pretty darned good, and the psi-stalker tribes probably have all of those that they can use.
But armor would be tough.

Better yet, if they don't have any moral objections, start shipping the Psi-Stalkers some parasites and symbiotes from Atlantis. That could beef them up pretty well.

2: Develop a gaseous sticky resin that is cheap to manufacture. Poisons and bio weapons tend not to really work on supernatural bugs*, but they are insects which means they breath through their skin, so coating their skin in plastic with an aerosol weapon would theoretically suffocate them.

Hm.
Worth a shot, I guess.

*yes KC, I know you are firmly in the not supernatural bugs camp, but I am approching this issue from the supernatural bugs point of view.

Actually, I'm not so sure the Xiticix aren't supernatural.
They probably weren't in the original book, but they seem like it now.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't think that the plan would work, but I do think that one of the smarter parts of it is trying to use a laser, because no matter what weapon you use, it's going to take a LOT of shots to do the job.
Missiles/bombs are very expensive.

Well if Palladium had a plausible "bunker-buster" in game stats, you could use them to soften up most of the target before commencing laser bombardment.

Sure, and if a frog had wings...

[The Beast]

Sure, and if a frog had wings...

Well one Gene Splicer can take care of that...

[glitterboy2098]

Ok, my idea is to make a modern dirigible and mount a bunch of bottom mounted long range lasers on a MDC rigid airship and flying it over Xitixix airspace shooting gleefully at any bugs flying around.

Modern Airships can do about 90 mph, and fly anywhere from 10 feet to 70,000 feet of the ground and can be easily weigh 100 tons.

So I'm thinking that the airship itself should be 10 tons with a 40 ton capacity, super solar powered and Helium filled, as the united states is the worlds largest producer of helium. The ship itself would be AI controlled using A Wilk's LASCOM to maintain communications with a human director. The Airship would normally mount 10 4 ton energy cannons with a 2-3 mile effective range and independent Radar, AIs and power sources all programed to target Bugs in this order:
Large armed bugs, small armed bugs, large bugs, small bugs Hives.
I'm thinking the damage of a pulse rifle and the range of artillery, not exactly unreasonable considering each would be 4 tons of tech.

The bugs have pretty good range on their TK rifles, but they can't perceive things past that range, as far as we know they have no concept of radar, telescopes, guided weapons or anything else that would enable them to effectively combat something that is 2 miles above them.

-snip-

anyone else got any ideas why this would not work?

let me explain....no, let me sum up. in techno-can, no less!

[if [#Xiticix/#guns^cycle rate] = <20 / then result = "certain death"]


any defensive system can be beaten with suficent numbers. defenses based on inflicting massive casualties don't work on killing all the enemy, they rely on inflicting such heavy damage to the enemy that the enemy looses the will to continue fighting.

xiticix aren't human, and will see no problem in sacrificing a few million warriors to swamp your blimp....


and note that if the weapons you choose rely on ammunition, your doom will arrive that much faster.

[rat_bastard]

Ok, my idea is to make a modern dirigible and mount a bunch of bottom mounted long range lasers on a MDC rigid airship and flying it over Xitixix airspace shooting gleefully at any bugs flying around.

Modern Airships can do about 90 mph, and fly anywhere from 10 feet to 70,000 feet of the ground and can be easily weigh 100 tons.

So I'm thinking that the airship itself should be 10 tons with a 40 ton capacity, super solar powered and Helium filled, as the united states is the worlds largest producer of helium. The ship itself would be AI controlled using A Wilk's LASCOM to maintain communications with a human director. The Airship would normally mount 10 4 ton energy cannons with a 2-3 mile effective range and independent Radar, AIs and power sources all programed to target Bugs in this order:
Large armed bugs, small armed bugs, large bugs, small bugs Hives.
I'm thinking the damage of a pulse rifle and the range of artillery, not exactly unreasonable considering each would be 4 tons of tech.

The bugs have pretty good range on their TK rifles, but they can't perceive things past that range, as far as we know they have no concept of radar, telescopes, guided weapons or anything else that would enable them to effectively combat something that is 2 miles above them.

-snip-

anyone else got any ideas why this would not work?

let me explain....no, let me sum up. in techno-can, no less!

[if [#Xiticix/#guns^cycle rate] = <20 / then result = "certain death"]


any defensive system can be beaten with suficent numbers. defenses based on inflicting massive casualties don't work on killing all the enemy, they rely on inflicting such heavy damage to the enemy that the enemy looses the will to continue fighting.

xiticix aren't human, and will see no problem in sacrificing a few million warriors to swamp your blimp....


and note that if the weapons you choose rely on ammunition, your doom will arrive that much faster.

nnothing you have said has had any bearing on our conversation.

are you drunker than me?

[glitterboy2098]

put into simpler language, the idea, while admitedly imaginative, wouldn't work because the Xiticix are more than willing to suffer massive casualties to eliminate anything that threatens them.

the formula was a compact way of pointing out the problem facing your blimp idea.

[if [#Xiticix/#guns^cycle rate] = <20 / then result = "certain death"]

meaning: if the number of Xiticix divided by the number of guns modified by the rate of fire of said guns is over twenty, the xiticix will overwhelm the combat capability of the vehicle, meaning it will be destroyed.

bug spam.


"but" you'll say "i'm cruising at 2 miles up"

which has some major problems in assumptions. first, that you have weapons that can reach 2 miles. given the pathetically poor range of the lasers in rifts, this is highly unlikely.
second, that you have sensor systems with sufficent resolution to pick out a single man sized target at that range, from a cloud of thousands+ other bugs. (you have to pick out specific targets. if you don't, there is a much higher chance you'll end up shooting through the empty spaces between members of the swarm.)
third, that the Xiticix can't fly up two miles. which is highly unlikely. even earth bugs can fly two miles up. airlines routinely have impacts with swarms of bugs at those altitudes.
fourth, that the xiticix can't perceive beyond 4000ft. this is disproven in WB23. although they do not provide a specific range, the fluff and stats indicate that their sensory abilities, particulalry in regards to normal senses (sight, smell, ect), are very good, with ranges at least as good as a human. better in some cases. they'd see your blimp. and when Xiticix start dying, the bugs, not particulalrly stupid (just of very uncomplicated minds), will attack it. you might kill the first few waves, but each would just bring in more bugs.

until your ability to fight them off is exceeded, and they destroy your blimp.


but hey, it qualifies as a innovative idea. good for XP. and even if it fails in the long run, it would make for a good campaign session.

are you drunker than me?

doubtful. i never drink. bad for your health you know.

[glitterboy2098]

How high do the Killer satellites start to kick in? Go too low and bugs, too high and boom from orbit

somewhere over 100,000ft. the triax super-plane is specifically mentioned as never flying higher than that because it would otherwise be shot at by the orbital defenses.

being a hypersonic wavrider, it could probably do near orbit easily. so if it sticks to 100,000ft, it's for a darn good reason.

[Rockwolf66]

I personally would love for a blimp or other really cheap weapons system to stir up the largest swarm of bugs that I can.


Then I would Airburst Nuke the entire swarm.

Do it enough times and you will seriously thin the numbers of bugs to a level where you simply drive all the bugs underground. Once underground you ask a whole bunch of Earth Warlocks to get their elemental budies to turn the earth around the bugs to mud and once burrying the bugs back to stone. it would take years but the end result is more than worth it.

[rat_bastard]

I AM R DRUNK

[Library Ogre]

I AM R DRUNK

We just generally assume that, Ratty.

[rat_bastard]

I AM R DRUNK

We just generally assume that, Ratty.

you could replace the quote in your sig with that quote.

[Library Ogre]

I AM R DRUNK

We just generally assume that, Ratty.

you could replace the quote in your sig with that quote.

Nah, I like the one I have.

[Lenwen]

I guess I've always envisioned the Xitixic killer idea as either a single species specifically built and bread for this sole pourpose as per Rifts Lonestar as the single best way to kill them . Or the Viral infection ala the Xit book , as the second best option .

I firmly believe that the Xitixic killer that the CS has created is more then sufficent enough to kill off the Xitixic species .
The only factor is that there are simply not enough of them to do the job .

Its litterally 1billion+ to couple thousand odds . If the CS could mass produce those X-killers into the hundreds or better yet millions then I believe the X-killer would be thee single best weapon against the Xit's .

Course I am also sure ( tho not canon ) that the CS is prolly working on a Generation 2 of the Xit killer that would place the need of so many more gen 2 Xit killers off meaning they are prolly making a X-killer that is 10x more lethal then the current generation of x-killers .

Desmond does like perfection after all .

[The Beast]

I guess I've always envisioned the Xitixic killer idea as either a single species specifically built and bread for this sole pourpose as per Rifts Lonestar as the single best way to kill them . Or the Viral infection ala the Xit book , as the second best option .

I firmly believe that the Xitixic killer that the CS has created is more then sufficent enough to kill off the Xitixic species .
The only factor is that there are simply not enough of them to do the job .

Its litterally 1billion+ to couple thousand odds . If the CS could mass produce those X-killers into the hundreds or better yet millions then I believe the X-killer would be thee single best weapon against the Xit's .

Course I am also sure ( tho not canon ) that the CS is prolly working on a Generation 2 of the Xit killer that would place the need of so many more gen 2 Xit killers off meaning they are prolly making a X-killer that is 10x more lethal then the current generation of x-killers .

Desmond does like perfection after all .

Doesn't either Aftermath or RUE mention that the program is being terminated because the CS just can't make enough of them to put a dent in the bug numbers?