Splogroth Vs. Xiticix

[rat_bastard]

So here is an idea, we make a bunch of light MDC high altitude dirigibles, mount the longest range lasers we can buy on them and fly them over Xitixix territory with orders to shoot every bug they can.

if you can get something with a 8000ft-2 mile range and something in the area of 6d6-1d6x10 damage you can probably kill something like four bugs a minute per turret, as long as your range is a coupla thousand feet past the Xitixix ability to perceive things you could kill tons of the bastards.

OMFG I AM TEARING UP HAHAHAHA

the genius of the plan is no High tech or significantly magical power is gonna be threatened by a blimp with a LAZ0R mounted on it, they can kill it with a spread of short range missles or a air elemental, but the Bugs can't even see a blimp 1.5 miles in the air let alone shoot it down.

[Shadyslug]

So here is an idea, we make a bunch of light MDC high altitude dirigibles, mount the longest range lasers we can buy on them and fly them over Xitixix territory with orders to shoot every bug they can.

if you can get something with a 8000ft-2 mile range and something in the area of 6d6-1d6x10 damage you can probably kill something like four bugs a minute per turret, as long as your range is a coupla thousand feet past the Xitixix ability to perceive things you could kill tons of the bastards.

OMFG I AM TEARING UP HAHAHAHA

the genius of the plan is no High tech or significantly magical power is gonna be threatened by a blimp with a LAZ0R mounted on it, they can kill it with a spread of short range missles or a air elemental, but the Bugs can't even see a blimp 1.5 miles in the air let alone shoot it down.

Sensitive Psionics...

[rat_bastard]

So here is an idea, we make a bunch of light MDC high altitude dirigibles, mount the longest range lasers we can buy on them and fly them over Xitixix territory with orders to shoot every bug they can.

if you can get something with a 8000ft-2 mile range and something in the area of 6d6-1d6x10 damage you can probably kill something like four bugs a minute per turret, as long as your range is a coupla thousand feet past the Xitixix ability to perceive things you could kill tons of the bastards.

OMFG I AM TEARING UP HAHAHAHA

the genius of the plan is no High tech or significantly magical power is gonna be threatened by a blimp with a LAZ0R mounted on it, they can kill it with a spread of short range missles or a air elemental, but the Bugs can't even see a blimp 1.5 miles in the air let alone shoot it down.

Sensitive Psionics...

which helps them how exactly?

[Shadyslug]

which helps them how exactly?

With the -10 dodge rule...

[rat_bastard]

which helps them how exactly?

With the -10 dodge rule...

ok, so instead of 4 xitixix a minute killed its more like 2.

the bugs still have **** poor options against an high altitude attacker with unlimited ammunition.

[Killer Cyborg]

So here is an idea, we make a bunch of light MDC high altitude dirigibles, mount the longest range lasers we can buy on them and fly them over Xitixix territory with orders to shoot every bug they can.

if you can get something with a 8000ft-2 mile range and something in the area of 6d6-1d6x10 damage you can probably kill something like four bugs a minute per turret, as long as your range is a coupla thousand feet past the Xitixix ability to perceive things you could kill tons of the bastards.

Sure, if you can get something like that.
But I suspect if they could, they'd already have it.

[Killer Cyborg]

Using which spaceships?

I'll start with the Kittani ones, but really the splugorith are multi dimensional beings with more money than most gods, so the question is what ships don't they have.

Actually, the question is what ships don't they have in Atlantis.
And my guess is "almost all of them."

There's only a couple of ships statted out in the Atlantis books, and I don't recall them having the means to start chucking asteroids or anything.
I'm not near my books right now though, so I can't verify.

[Shadyslug]

which helps them how exactly?

With the -10 dodge rule...

ok, so instead of 4 xitixix a minute killed its more like 2.

the bugs still have **** poor options against an high altitude attacker with unlimited ammunition.

So...you don't think that they'd figure out an option against the rain of lasers from the sky?

I'm sure that the queen would just figure out how to manifest a high flying bug that could deal with the situation...

[rat_bastard]

which helps them how exactly?

With the -10 dodge rule...

ok, so instead of 4 xitixix a minute killed its more like 2.

the bugs still have **** poor options against an high altitude attacker with unlimited ammunition.

So...you don't think that they'd figure out an option against the rain of lasers from the sky?

I'm sure that the queen would just figure out how to manifest a high flying bug that could deal with the situation...

faster than they could be shot down?

[kevarin]

iv used gunship platforms in my games before but you also have
think with lasers the bugs could always swarm in the direction
the shots are coming from and eventually see and find the blimp
if they couldnt reach it im sure they would just build a bigger resin
or tk cannon to take it out and stop flight patrols till it was taken
out

[rat_bastard]

iv used gunship platforms in my games before but you also have
think with lasers the bugs could always swarm in the direction
the shots are coming from and eventually see and find the blimp
if they couldnt reach it im sure they would just build a bigger resin
or tk cannon to take it out and stop flight patrols till it was taken
out

great, while they are building I'm shooting.

[kevarin]

question i might have missed it but how high can a
xiticix fly i see speed listings but nothing for how
high they can fly

[rat_bastard]

question i might have missed it but how high can a
xiticix fly i see speed listings but nothing for how
high they can fly

I belive its in xitixix invasion, something int he area of 4000 feet.

[Killer Cyborg]

question i might have missed it but how high can a
xiticix fly i see speed listings but nothing for how
high they can fly

I belive its in xitixix invasion, something int he area of 4000 feet.

The bugs attack anything intruder-like flying up to 10,000' over their hive.
No mention that I recall saying how high they can fly if they're really motivated.

[kevarin]

thanks killer

[rat_bastard]

here is my other idea to kill the damn bugs.

[Talavar]

As for the topic at hand. Perhaps in a newer edition they'll attend to things such as population management, there seem to be several species in Rifts that were designed without a natural sense of balance (environmental) to keep them in check. As an earlier poster noted, if we try to use logic, it would suggest the bugs would have huge populations that increase dramatically by the time we rolled around to PA 110. Unless they tie in some sorta mandatory species frenzy infighting with the bugs, where they engage in brutal infighting every few generations to keep their own numbers down.

I think the Spolgs would use biowizardry approaches, and if necessary some related bioweapon. I think biowiz would be first, plus proper dissecetion and analysis of what makes the bugs tick, then they'd warp in a couple Black Flag/Raid bug bombs and poof.

The Xiticix Invasion World Book explains that Xiticix hives go to war with each other when there's no more room to expand - they simply haven't reached that point, so intra-Xiticix warfare isn't necessary yet.

[Library Ogre]

Actually, IIRC, Xiticix can survive just fine on the stuff that lines the walls of their hives... they just prefer sludge.

[Talavar]

Xiticix don't eat people, they farm alien fungus from the insides of their hives.

Sludge is created from people with high PPE, but it's not food for most of the hive - it's used to accelerate the growth of Xiticix larva to adulthood, cutting the time roughly in half.

[The Beast]

Xiticix can also feed off of the high PPE monsters in the area.

[Lenwen]

Thanks for the Replies..but one thing..Would Splnn do anything? to fly his ships up to NA would make the C.S. think he was invadeing, and that could be bad Marketing. If he kills them all with in a few days to a weeks time (and he could if he put ALL his resources into it) then you have the problem of Millions, or Billions of Creatures dieing in such a short time that you run a chance of starting another Great Catlysm(sp?) and with all the Ley Lines in Atlantis that could be real bad. Splnn would not try and capture them for anything more then Fighters in his Gladtorial Arenas.

I personally do not think the deaths of the Xitixic would unleash anything more then a momentary ( regaurdless of if its minutes hours days or weeks ) Increase in the overall rifts of the world . Perhaps rather then that it would increase the overall randomness of the Rifts currently in that general area of the world and perhaps it would also do the same thing to the Atlantean forces that the CS did to the Tolkeen magical forces .. totally mess them up with that many deaths ..

Tolkeen lost a couple hundred thousand people and several Pyramides IIRC an that alone was enough to temporarily cause all the magic of that area to go heywire ..

Now imagine the total population of the Xitixic .. getting wiped out in a several day event .. That would generally in my personal estimation cause some HUGE general vacinity ripples .. but not world wide ripples .

Unless as was said that the Xitixic population is over 1 Billion . Then I could easily see that as a world wide Ripple effect on every ley line in Rifts Earth .

[Library Ogre]

Thanks for the Replies..but one thing..Would Splnn do anything? to fly his ships up to NA would make the C.S. think he was invadeing, and that could be bad Marketing. If he kills them all with in a few days to a weeks time (and he could if he put ALL his resources into it) then you have the problem of Millions, or Billions of Creatures dieing in such a short time that you run a chance of starting another Great Catlysm(sp?) and with all the Ley Lines in Atlantis that could be real bad. Splnn would not try and capture them for anything more then Fighters in his Gladtorial Arenas.

IMO, the Cataclysm was something of a special case... it was several things going wrong at once.

1) The solstice.
2) Huge amount of death.
3) Ten thousand years of ley-line restraint due to the Atlantean experiment.
4) A couple or three dimensional experiments, simultaneously.
5) Nothing ameliorating the PPE surge.

Killing millions of Xiticitix would be a lot of death and released PPE, but there's also likely to be (especially in the case of a Splugorth force) a lot of "bleed"... people absorbing death PPE to fuel their powers (a CS force would have psi-stalkers, though they'd result in smaller bleed). And it's not likely to coincidentally take place on a period of increased energy (unless someone's astrologers really screw up).

[Shadyslug]

faster than they could be shot down?

You're not thinking like a bug.

You'd have a hard time shooting down 1,000 of them...

[Shadyslug]

Thanks for the Replies..but one thing..Would Splnn do anything? to fly his ships up to NA would make the C.S. think he was invadeing, and that could be bad Marketing. If he kills them all with in a few days to a weeks time (and he could if he put ALL his resources into it) then you have the problem of Millions, or Billions of Creatures dieing in such a short time that you run a chance of starting another Great Catlysm(sp?) and with all the Ley Lines in Atlantis that could be real bad. Splnn would not try and capture them for anything more then Fighters in his Gladtorial Arenas.

IMO, the Cataclysm was something of a special case... it was several things going wrong at once.

1) The solstice.
2) Huge amount of death.
3) Ten thousand years of ley-line restraint due to the Atlantean experiment.
4) A couple or three dimensional experiments, simultaneously.
5) Nothing ameliorating the PPE surge.

Killing millions of Xiticitix would be a lot of death and released PPE, but there's also likely to be (especially in the case of a Splugorth force) a lot of "bleed"... people absorbing death PPE to fuel their powers (a CS force would have psi-stalkers, though they'd result in smaller bleed). And it's not likely to coincidentally take place on a period of increased energy (unless someone's astrologers really screw up).

You gotta remember that most of the deaths happened over the course of an hour or so...

2,000,000,000+ die doubling their PPE would be approximately 20,000,000,000 PPE points tossed into the air almost instantaneously...

That's gonna cause problems...now that same amount over the course of a week? Not so bad. Sure...random rifts and ley line storms and such, but not megaversal cataclysm...

[Shadyslug]

here is my other idea to kill the damn bugs.

You've been drinking again...haven't you?

[The Beast]

IMO, the Cataclysm was something of a special case... it was several things going wrong at once.

1) The solstice.
2) Huge amount of death.
3) Ten thousand years of ley-line restraint due to the Atlantean experiment.
4) A couple or three dimensional experiments, simultaneously.
5) Nothing ameliorating the PPE surge.

Killing millions of Xiticitix would be a lot of death and released PPE, but there's also likely to be (especially in the case of a Splugorth force) a lot of "bleed"... people absorbing death PPE to fuel their powers (a CS force would have psi-stalkers, though they'd result in smaller bleed). And it's not likely to coincidentally take place on a period of increased energy (unless someone's astrologers really screw up).

My understanding was that the solstice, the massive deaths at noon, and the planetary alignment were the causes behind the Coming of the Rifts, and the experiments were just being conducted at the right (or wrong) time.

IIRC, after the war Tolkeen has some wierd dimmensional stuff happening there, though I can't remember right now if it's because of the war deaths, all the magic used in the area, or a combination of both.

[Kagashi]

IMO, the Cataclysm was something of a special case... it was several things going wrong at once.

1) The solstice.
2) Huge amount of death.
3) Ten thousand years of ley-line restraint due to the Atlantean experiment.
4) A couple or three dimensional experiments, simultaneously.
5) Nothing ameliorating the PPE surge.

Killing millions of Xiticitix would be a lot of death and released PPE, but there's also likely to be (especially in the case of a Splugorth force) a lot of "bleed"... people absorbing death PPE to fuel their powers (a CS force would have psi-stalkers, though they'd result in smaller bleed). And it's not likely to coincidentally take place on a period of increased energy (unless someone's astrologers really screw up).

My understanding was that the solstice, the massive deaths at noon, and the planetary alignment were the causes behind the Coming of the Rifts, and the experiments were just being conducted at the right (or wrong) time.

IIRC, after the war Tolkeen has some wierd dimmensional stuff happening there, though I can't remember right now if it's because of the war deaths, all the magic used in the area, or a combination of both.

I think the surge of PPE would only have local effects, and nothing like another Great Cataclysm, unless one did it during the same conditions listed above.

[Lenwen]

IMO, the Cataclysm was something of a special case... it was several things going wrong at once.

1) The solstice.
2) Huge amount of death.
3) Ten thousand years of ley-line restraint due to the Atlantean experiment.
4) A couple or three dimensional experiments, simultaneously.
5) Nothing ameliorating the PPE surge.

Killing millions of Xiticitix would be a lot of death and released PPE, but there's also likely to be (especially in the case of a Splugorth force) a lot of "bleed"... people absorbing death PPE to fuel their powers (a CS force would have psi-stalkers, though they'd result in smaller bleed). And it's not likely to coincidentally take place on a period of increased energy (unless someone's astrologers really screw up).

My understanding was that the solstice, the massive deaths at noon, and the planetary alignment were the causes behind the Coming of the Rifts, and the experiments were just being conducted at the right (or wrong) time.

IIRC, after the war Tolkeen has some wierd dimmensional stuff happening there, though I can't remember right now if it's because of the war deaths, all the magic used in the area, or a combination of both.

I think the surge of PPE would only have local effects, and nothing like another Great Cataclysm, unless one did it during the same conditions listed above.

Still, If you were Splnn, would you want to throw that part of the world into Utter Chaos,and risk God knows what to come through the Rifts? it could be something far worse then the Bugs.

Thats just now how Lord Splynncryth thinks .. heh I would likely do it just to start a tourism attration there for his customers . Or even simply not allow them to spread out anymore and simply use it as a play place for his minnions . Destroying the entire bug network tho easily in his capabilities is not high on the things to do list for Lord Splynn simply cause he could prolly make a huge profit off the whole thing . And / or even simply have fun with them . As on rifts earth it is extreamly hard to find good entertainment for him .

[rat_bastard]

there are possible ways to profit in this.

Every single Xitixix weapon is a unique magical weapon that is handmade by a exotic indigenous people, that alone can get them a good price with collectors worldwide. Since all they have to do to get them is shoot light mdc critters Atlantis has a nearly unlimited supply.

Then there is the fact that their hives are made of MDC stone, grind that down and you have aggregate for MDC concrete. Given the amount of hives they could do a fantastic amount of building projects with the building materials the Xitixix could provide.

Hunters, warriors and super warriors can be used in the arenas while the Diggers can be bio-wizard mutated into construction slaves.

then there is the food aspect, find a way to cook up xitixix all tasty like and you have financial demand for their destruction.

[Library Ogre]

The more we talk about it, the more I think it is likely that the Splugorth would seek to enslave the Xiticix, rather than eradicate them.

[Kagashi]

The more we talk about it, the more I think it is likely that the Splugorth would seek to enslave the Xiticix, rather than eradicate them.

Oh no doubt. This is the more canon answer to be sure. The only reason why we were discussing eradication was because that was the hypothetical scenario in the first post.

Still, If you were Splnn, would you want to throw that part of the world into Utter Chaos,and risk God knows what to come through the Rifts? it could be something far worse then the Bugs.

I would think it depends of if his goal were to just destroy the bugs, or if he wanted the land for his own in the end. If he just created a mini Apocalypse in the hivelands, the potential for another threat could emerge and would be pointless to colonize that part of the land if there was something else just as bad (or worse) than the bugs to have to deal with that came through the rifts.

But yes, uncontrollable ley line storms, rifting in other demons, and other apocalypse-type features would be a tactic he would use akin to NBC warfare. Its the magical equivalent of a nuke.

[Rockwolf66]

Well the cannon answer on page 97 of WB:23 Xiticix Invasion is that Lord Splynncryth or any other Splugorth could totally destroy the Xiticix in a matter of weeks. So that's 1.2 Billion to zero in less than a year.

Why he doesn't is the fact that doing so would frighten the rest of North America into banding together against him. let alone how other Multidementional forces would react.

[Sureshot]

Lord Splynncryth could easily destroy the Xiticix if he choose to do so. What forces, equipement and troops he needs he access to.

[Lenwen]

And, of course, all this assumes Splynncryth feels like "showing his hand" as far as how much power he can command to the other forces on Rifts Earth. Could he do it? Probably. Would he do it? Probably not. And if so, in order to "protect his investment", I gotta believe he'd be smarter about it than launching a full scale assault.

I could not have said it better .

I for one think one of the ways Lord Splynn would go about this would be to get his hands on as many CS deadboy suits , Transports an what not as he could an simply mask his presence in such a way as to make the Xit's believe thier under attack by the Coalition forces .

He has the resources to litterally recreate the CS military if he so chose to . And in this case , It would not only be wise , but VERY smart of him to simply play it off like that .

Or at least that is how I personally see the whole thing happening .

[Killer Cyborg]

Well the cannon answer on page 97 of WB:23 Xiticix Invasion is that Lord Splynncryth or any other Splugorth could totally destroy the Xiticix in a matter of weeks. So that's 1.2 Billion to zero in less than a year.

Hm.
Actually, it would have been a lot less bugs back when XI was written.
So today it might take him a little longer, but would still be perfectly possible.

Good find; I'll look it over when I get a chance.

[Shadyslug]

I've got it!!!!

Splynncryth would capture a Queen and leave her chained up in an underground pyramid only to release several bugs when triggered in order to create a right of passage ritual for new Conservators!!!

Maybe they should make a movie out of it...

[Kagashi]

And, of course, all this assumes Splynncryth feels like "showing his hand" as far as how much power he can command to the other forces on Rifts Earth. Could he do it? Probably. Would he do it? Probably not. And if so, in order to "protect his investment", I gotta believe he'd be smarter about it than launching a full scale assault.

This is the assumption of the entire thread...that Splynn had decided to act and wipe out the bugs, canon or not. But you are correct, there are many factors in which Splynn would NOT do it.

1) showing the rest of Rifts Earth how powerful he really is would be a bad thing and may cause a global war against him (I still think he would win though)
2) The other Splugorth would step in and prevent Splynn from taking over the world.
3) We still havnt seen the Naruni's true military might (The books state that the stuff they sell is the watered down versions...they keep the good stuff for themselves). Although I see them arming the folks fighting the Splugorth, rather than fighting themselves.
4) as I stated before, if Atlantis devotes 100% of her resources to attacking the bugs, who is left to defend Atlantis? Realistically, Splynn would only send about 20-25% of his minions on a conquest. Any more than that would be unrealistic (the argument I presented before assumes every living being in Atlantis left Atlantis to fight). And with the numbers KC provided, combat vs the bugs, in their home turf, would be in favor of the bugs simply due to numbers. Even if the hypothetical 3 other planets were involved, it would be hard to tell at this point.

[Kagashi]

I've got it!!!!

Splynncryth would capture a Queen and leave her chained up in an underground pyramid only to release several bugs when triggered in order to create a right of passage ritual for new Conservators!!!

Maybe they should make a movie out of it...

Heh, or Ranthenors rather

[Lenwen]

And, of course, all this assumes Splynncryth feels like "showing his hand" as far as how much power he can command to the other forces on Rifts Earth. Could he do it? Probably. Would he do it? Probably not. And if so, in order to "protect his investment", I gotta believe he'd be smarter about it than launching a full scale assault.

This is the assumption of the entire thread...that Splynn had decided to act and wipe out the bugs, canon or not. But you are correct, there are many factors in which Splynn would NOT do it.

1) showing the rest of Rifts Earth how powerful he really is would be a bad thing and may cause a global war against him (I still think he would win though)
2) The other Splugorth would step in and prevent Splynn from taking over the world.
3) We still havnt seen the Naruni's true military might (The books state that the stuff they sell is the watered down versions...they keep the good stuff for themselves). Although I see them arming the folks fighting the Splugorth, rather than fighting themselves.
4) as I stated before, if Atlantis devotes 100% of her resources to attacking the bugs, who is left to defend Atlantis? Realistically, Splynn would only send about 20-25% of his minions on a conquest. Any more than that would be unrealistic (the argument I presented before assumes every living being in Atlantis left Atlantis to fight). And with the numbers KC provided, combat vs the bugs, in their home turf, would be in favor of the bugs simply due to numbers. Even if the hypothetical 3 other planets were involved, it would be hard to tell at this point.

4) - I do not agree with this one , Simply put . Lord Splynn has nearly 100million minions on earth already ..

IF Lord splynn so chose he could litterally bring Billions upon billions .. of his minions , As it is said the strenght of the Splugorthians is not themsevles , but Rather thier Billions of Billions of Billions of Minions .
Having that been said . Lord Splynn could easily bring over 2 billion minions , Take care of the Bugs .. and be out within a week easily . And still NEVER touch his Atlantean based forces .

Pyramid Magic would be the key factor in exactly how many minions Lord Splynn could bring . All he has to do is simply build a pyramid close proximity enough to port over the remainder distances an simply start killing .

3 planets of Kydians , if you read thier destription they each have 3-4 babies per gestation period and thier encourgaged to mate ...
Lord Splynn has 3 worlds of them . That is likely to be hundreds of billions of minions right there . Thats not counting the Kittani , or the conservators or the Conservator race overall ..

[Killer Cyborg]

Something I just noticed in the Xiticix book: On pg 23, second column, second full paragraph, under the note section, it says that the colonies have never split because of numbers, but by direct action of the Elder Queen, meaning that the numbers are less then some of the more alarmist estimations.

If it's the passage that I'm thinking of, it doesn't exactly say that.

I'm not near my books, but if you would be so good as to provide a direct quotation....

[Killer Cyborg]

If it's the passage that I'm thinking of, it doesn't exactly say that.

I'm not near my books, but if you would be so good as to provide a direct quotation....

The entire LONG paragraph is talking about what happens when a hive reaches 200 million, and either the young queens leave and start new hives, or battle the mother for control of the main hive. That entire paragraph I'm not going to quote. But:

Note: This has yet to happen on Rifts Earth. The five that have grown from the original hive were created as a direct choice of that colony's Elder Queen.

That's the way I remembered it; it's in the section on Xiticix interaction on other world, yes?

The key there is that the original five colonies were created as a direct choice of the Elder Queen, so the Duluth Hive's original population was not necessarily at (or near) the 200 million mark.
BUT as of 109 PA, the hives (which no longer seem to be under the direction of the Elder Queen, except for the Duluth Hive) are once again spreading out, which indicates that they have all (or soon will all) reach that 200 million mark, which is where I got my estimates.

I will grant you that my number might have been high; taken together the information on Xiticix breeding habits, expansion policies, and population are not entirely clear.
On the other hand, my number may well be LOW; I tried to err on the side of caution where I could.
For example, IIRC, there is a place in the book that mentions the splitting-off point for a hive at higher than 200 million (300-500 million, IIRC).

[Killer Cyborg]

The key there is that the original five colonies were created as a direct choice of the Elder Queen, so the Duluth Hive's original population was not necessarily at (or near) the 200 million mark.

But there are no other hives other then the first one and the five expansion colonies. At least not in canon.

Read Aftermath.

[dargo83]

i am new to this game and i was wondering if i can get the stats for the xiticix. i have been trying to find them ithe books and i am searching for them online

[Jesterzzn]

So are we taking this from an "in a bubble" perspective, or from an actual on Earth perspective?

In a bubble, the Splugorth win. Period. No qualifier. The only question would be how fast they do it. Casualties are not even a consideration since to the splugorth its no more than a war of Bugs vs. Bugs, since that's pretty much how they view their slave armies.

On Rifts Earth, well, its complicated. No one on the planet has a true feel for the power of Splynn, nor do they even begin to suspect just how capable he could be at projecting that power. And Splynn likes it like that. So, he would be far more likely to fight a containing action.

But lets assume that Splynn casts off any other considerations he might have. We are still talking about a pretty protracted campaign. It would cost him millions of slaves maybe even in the billions, and probably a healthy amount of combat minion casualties as well.

A week? No.

A month? No.

6 Months? Maybe. Depends on the amount of force applied.

A year? More like it.

[rat_bastard]

I still say spluggie should just drop some Kinetic kill projectiles on the hives.

[rat_bastard]

I still say spluggie should just drop some Kinetic kill projectiles on the hives.

I know you love the idea of them, but you seem to be forgetting that nothing can get into orbit without being destroyed, not even the splugorth. The debris field and killer sats would destroy their ships. Rifts Earth was designed to be cut off from space by Palladium. You can't just fly up to space and start dropping stuff on people.

you seem to have an unreasonably high opinion of the orbital community's ability to keep the Splugorith out of space.

Think about it, one is a ruler of a many billion strong multi world FTL capable society brimming with warriors, mages and aliens the other does not have a single citizen that would live for more than five minutes exposed to the artificial gravity generators of the former's space ships.

the only reason the Splugorith don't own earth space is because its cheaper and easier to let the orbital community do it for free.

[Killer Cyborg]

The key there is that the original five colonies were created as a direct choice of the Elder Queen, so the Duluth Hive's original population was not necessarily at (or near) the 200 million mark.

But there are no other hives other then the first one and the five expansion colonies. At least not in canon.

Read Aftermath.

There was nothing in Aftermath that contradicted what I said.

There are currently, as per Aftermath, only the 6 colonies; the original, and the 5 offshoots.
But those colonies are in the process of splitting off again, to make new colonies.
Which indicates that those hives have reached their population quotas (or are shortly about to).

It doesn't matter that the first five colonies were direct choice, these seem to be due to the normal patterns, which means 1.2-1.8 billion bugs.

[Killer Cyborg]

What I got out of the book was that the hives where intentionally splitting, like the first one did, because they see more land undefended. When the CS came and kicked Tolkeen out, the bugs saw it in the same way as a dominance battle of queens. Now that the old queen (Tolkeen) has been vanquished, the other queens and hives can challenge the new queen (CS), so they're grabbing territory. Not because their hives have reached the point of expansion. IIRC, Aftermath even mentions this, as does XI.

Well, let's look.

Aftermath, 69

Left unchecked for these past four or five years, the Xiticix population has continued to explode, not quite at a geometric rate, but close to it. Soon, swarms from each hive will go forth with a new, young Queen to start their own hive and increase the current Hivelands range by 33%.

This passage is self-explanatory; the population has exploded at close to a geometric rate, and the hives are ready to create new colonies.

The Xiticix population has grown steadily over the war years, and like an overripe tomato, threatens to burst and spill into the fallen defeated Kingdom of Tolkeen, as well as northern Wisconsin and possibly the state of Iron Heart and upper Michigan.

As with the first passage, the picture is pretty clear: the xiticix population, like an overripe tomato, is more than full- it is swollen to the point of bursting.
And we have an idea of what constitutes "full" for a hive (200-300 million bugs).

Though the Xiticix constantly encroached on the Kingdom of Tolkeen and there would have been eventual conflict, the insectoids saw the Tolkeenites as the dominant force in the region and held off. However, with the dramatic fall of Tolkeen and the mass exodus of its people, to the Xiticix, this indicates the region is "up for grabs," and the Coalition Army a new competitor for the land. This in and of itself could cause the Xiticix of the hives bordering on or located in upper Minnesota to expand into the now unclaimed (as they see it) land south of them, as well as offer new opportunities for the half dozen new queens about to splinter from the established hives. The expansion of the Duluth Hive has already begun and Crookston and Fargo should soon follow.

That first sentence shows that the xiticix were ready, willing, and able to start moving into that territory the moment Tolkeen wasn't an issue, something that the bugs wouldn't do (not in more than outpost numbers, anyway) if they weren't at their full population levels.
This passage doesn't explain why the bugs are expanding (that was already explained in the first two passages I quoted), it explains why they're expanding into the Tolkeen area.
When competing for resources, you first grab the resources that the competition is after.
Furthermore, the second to last sentence shows that the Xiticix had a half-dozen new queens already about to splinter from established hives- the fall of Tolkeen only provided them with a good opportunity to actually do so.

[cornholioprime]

Lord Splynncryth couldn't kill of the bugs simply because he doesn't have the ability to utilize the force nessacary to do it at current. There are to many other major players in the multiverse that would mobilize against him should he muster the forces needed to wipe out the bugs.

Top 5 Entities that wouldn't allow Lord Spynncryth a free hand to do as he pleases on Rifts Earth,

Naruni enterprises
The Gods of Light
Most of the Gods of Darkness (because they're bitter)
Vampire Intelligences
The demons of China

Simply not true.

A]] Most of the entities that you listed are too weak, even collectively, to take on the Splugorth. More than likely the unnamed "other forces" keeping him in check are other as-yet-unknown Alien Intelligences as well as other Splugorth (Splynncryth is said to be the militarily weakest of the lot).

B]] Splynncryth actually has a better than even chance of getting a go-ahead if he uses the Icks Icks as an excuse to invade; Earth is at this time one of the most lucrative spots in the Megaverse at this time, and they're not about to let the hand that feeds them get obliterated by a planetary-wide Bug infestation.

[cornholioprime]

Thanks for the Replies..but one thing..Would Splnn do anything? to fly his ships up to NA would make the C.S. think he was invadeing, and that could be bad Marketing. If he kills them all with in a few days to a weeks time (and he could if he put ALL his resources into it) then you have the problem of Millions, or Billions of Creatures dieing in such a short time that you run a chance of starting another Great Catlysm(sp?) and with all the Ley Lines in Atlantis that could be real bad. Splnn would not try and capture them for anything more then Fighters in his Gladtorial Arenas.

IMO, the Cataclysm was something of a special case... it was several things going wrong at once.

1) The solstice.
2) Huge amount of death.
3) Ten thousand years of ley-line restraint due to the Atlantean experiment.
4) A couple or three dimensional experiments, simultaneously.
5) Nothing ameliorating the PPE surge.

Killing millions of Xiticitix would be a lot of death and released PPE, but there's also likely to be (especially in the case of a Splugorth force) a lot of "bleed"... people absorbing death PPE to fuel their powers (a CS force would have psi-stalkers, though they'd result in smaller bleed). And it's not likely to coincidentally take place on a period of increased energy (unless someone's astrologers really screw up).

Mark forgot the multi-planetary alignment.

Unless ALL of these things are in place, NOTHING even close to The Great Cataclysm will even come about; otherwise, Rifts Earth would have seen something happen back in 1945 with the Atomic Bombs.....and aside from the City Killer Nukes of the Coalition, NOTHING (outside of the superweps of, say, Phase World) can kill as many people as quickly.

(Now that I think of it, species like the Mechanoids and the Dominators definitively "prove" that
mass killings alone don't do anything in the mystical arena; they've killed billions to tens of billions all at once, and nothing [mystical] ever happened.)