Gizmoteers, do they really work?

[Talon Starblade]

Let’s examine for a second, for a lot of the converted TW toys the direct PPE to ISP cost conversions just won’t work. At 2d4x10 plus ME, you’d have to get max die rolls and in excess of level 10 or 12 just to do a TK engine. And then there’s the secondary armor adds…

Something else I was always a little curious about… Would you guys think that any psychic could use the power gizmos create, or just the Gizmoteer who created them?

And how would any of you handle ISP storage? I can think on the Psylite idea, but what he raw crystals can do is still up in the air.

[Nightmask]

I've brought up some of that in a previous Gizmoteer thread, as they get cheated compared to the Techno-Wizard due to the ISP problem (your average TW could build things like the TK engine from the first level on up), limited to just Psychic powers which are generally inferior to anything equivalent in the spell lists, and even their ability to boost thing is temporarily and prone to destroying what they're boosting. The Psi-Tech comes out with far more ISP and it doesn't even happen to be focused on so incredibly needing ISP for its class.

What they create though works for anyone with psionics not just the Gizmoteer (note they mention how Cyber-Knights are eager for the psi-Sword Gizmoteers can create as it boosts the damage of their natural psi-blade). They do have the minor benefit in that when they refit a weapon to run on ISP literally nothing changes beyond it running on ISP with a 1 shot=1 ISP or 2 PPE requirement. Which means if you can get ahold of that man-portable laser cannon that does 3d6x10+20 damage but burns through an entire e-clip you can refit it to be doing that kind of damage for a single ISP so imagine how useful that'd be when you're still flush with ISP (or even PPE for a mage).

[Balabanto]

The problem is the number of spells available vs. the number of psionic powers.

[Nightmask]

The problem is the number of spells available vs. the number of psionic powers.

Not completely, if the psionics available were more useful than they are having fewer of them wouldn't be as much of a problem.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Something else I was always a little curious about… Would you guys think that any psychic could use the power gizmos create, or just the Gizmoteer who created them?

Only the Amaki Gizmoteer can make (Psi) gizmoteer items.
Any Psi can recharge (Psi) gizmoteer items.

And how would any of you handle ISP storage?

It depends on the particular type of ISP battery that is being used on how much ISP is used to store any ISP in the ISP battery.

[Nightmask]

Something else I was always a little curious about… Would you guys think that any psychic could use the power gizmos create, or just the Gizmoteer who created them?

Only the Amaki Gizmoteer can make (Psi) gizmoteer items.
Any Psi can recharge (Psi) gizmoteer items.

That contradicts Psyscape stating that they do have facilities that teach the construction of psionic devices, so clearly Amaki aren't the only ones are able to create the devices. Also no psionic characters aren't the only ones who can recharge a gizmoteer device, spellcasters can recharge them as well at twice the cost in PPE much like a psionic can recharge a TW device with ISP at twice the cost in PPE.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Something else I was always a little curious about… Would you guys think that any psychic could use the power gizmos create, or just the Gizmoteer who created them?

Only the Amaki Gizmoteer can make (Psi) gizmoteer items.
Any Psi can recharge (Psi) gizmoteer items.

That contradicts Psyscape stating that they do have facilities that teach the construction of psionic devices, so clearly Amaki aren't the only ones are able to create the devices. Also no psionic characters aren't the only ones who can recharge a gizmoteer device, spellcasters can recharge them as well at twice the cost in PPE much like a psionic can recharge a TW device with ISP at twice the cost in PPE.

My statement does not contradict anything in Psyscape, since whatever is in Psyscape are not Amaki Gizmoteers, because the Amaki Gizmoteers are correctly labeled as an RCC due to it is a Racially Restricted Psi Char Class. (i.e.: the Amaki Gizmoteers are restricted to the Amaki Stonemen race.) And Amaki Gizmoteers are located in South Am., not North Am.
What Psyscape does say is that there is some sort of Psi based TW there, which is not defined.

Yes, mages can recharge Amaki Gizmoteer items at a cost of 2 PPE per 1 ISP of the normal ISP recharge cost.

Sorry TS, but this is a point of disagreement between MN and me. In which neither side will budge.
Note: I've been limiting my statements to the Amaki Gizmoteer items, and not any other pionic devices.

[Nightmask]

Something else I was always a little curious about… Would you guys think that any psychic could use the power gizmos create, or just the Gizmoteer who created them?

Only the Amaki Gizmoteer can make (Psi) gizmoteer items.
Any Psi can recharge (Psi) gizmoteer items.

That contradicts Psyscape stating that they do have facilities that teach the construction of psionic devices, so clearly Amaki aren't the only ones are able to create the devices. Also no psionic characters aren't the only ones who can recharge a gizmoteer device, spellcasters can recharge them as well at twice the cost in PPE much like a psionic can recharge a TW device with ISP at twice the cost in PPE.

My statement does not contradict anything in Psyscape, since whatever is in Psyscape are not Amaki Gizmoteers, because the Amaki Gizmoteers are correctly labeled as an RCC due to it is a Racially Restricted Psi Char Class. (i.e.: the Amaki Gizmoteers are restricted to the Amaki Stonemen race.) And Amaki Gizmoteers are located in South Am., not North Am.
What Psyscape does say is that there is some sort of Psi based TW there, which is not defined.

Yes, mages can recharge Amaki Gizmoteer items at a cost of 2 PPE per 1 ISP of the normal ISP recharge cost.

Sorry TS, but this is a point of disagreement between NM and me. In which neither side will budge.
Note: I've been limiting my statements to the Amaki Gizmoteer items, and not any other pionic devices.

Except you really can't make such an absolute claim, while the Gizmoteer is introduced with the Amaki doesn't mean it's restricted solely to the Amaki. Particularly since you really can't say that what is produced by Psyscape isn't Gizmoteer-style psionic devices.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Except you really can't make such an absolute claim, while the Gizmoteer is introduced with the Amaki doesn't mean it's restricted solely to the Amaki. Particularly since you really can't say that what is produced by Psyscape isn't Gizmoteer-style psionic devices.

In the first sentence of the text they are named Amaki Gizmoteers. What more support for my stance should I need? It is there in the text.
Until there is more specifics about what is in psyscape no-one can claim that Amaki Gizmoteer style psi devices are what is made there. Except in their own games.

I will concede, that Amaki Gizmoteer style psi items Might Be made in psyscape. But that would be up to the individual GMs to have the finale say in their games.

[Giant2005]

Except you really can't make such an absolute claim, while the Gizmoteer is introduced with the Amaki doesn't mean it's restricted solely to the Amaki. Particularly since you really can't say that what is produced by Psyscape isn't Gizmoteer-style psionic devices.

In the first sentence of the text they are named Amaki Gizmoteers. What more support for my stance should I need? It is there in the text.
Until there is more specifics about what is in psyscape no-one can claim that Amaki Gizmoteer style psi devices are what is made there. Except in their own games.

I will concede, that Amaki Gizmoteer style psi items Might Be made in psyscape. But that would be up to the individual GMs to have the finale say in their games.

This kind of confuses me...
What exactly is so unique about the Amaki Psi-Devices that would be so different to the Psi-Devices produced in Psyscape?
It is cannon that they are both Psionic variants of techno-wizardry, so I assume your statement is more specifically about the Amaki Psi technology that has been statted out? If that is the case, there is a grand total of one piece of Amaki psi-technology that has been statted in the published books...
But you are right, there is no evidence as to whether or not Psyscape is capable of producing Amaki TW Psi-Blades. Although, I'm pretty confident the "rule of fun" suggests that they do - the average player likes those weapons, their availability going up isn't something people would generally argue against.

[Shark_Force]

iirc, there's a psionic-tech class in BTS, and it's possible that's what the psi-scape reference is talking about as well.

anyways, i don't think gizmoteers really work as well as TW. their stuff appears to only be able to replicate powers (rather than combining and/or modifying), apart from a few specific abilities. i don't see any reason to disallow letting them go beyond that, mind you, and probably would allow it to a gizmoteer character if i was GMing, but i think the intent is that they can't do all the nifty little stuff that TW can.

and on a side note, a gizmoteer wouldn't create an engine. they can power a normal e-clip with straight ISP even without modifications, they should logically be able to do the same with an electric engine.