Who wants a remake of Africa?

[gaby]

Palladium books bigest mistake was with Africa.

Africa is one of the Bigest Continent,and they only do one book!

Africa needs to be cover by 3 books at most.

They Forgot to put a Ley line map.

What do you want to see in the Remake of Africa?

[Killer Cyborg]

Palladium books bigest mistake was with Africa.

Africa is one of the Bigest Continent,and they only do one book!

Africa needs to be cover by 3 books at most.

They Forgot to put a Ley line map.

What do you want to see in the Remake of Africa?

Remake?
No. Not unless they plan on doing an Ultimate version of the entire line of books.

I wouldn't mind seeing a sequal, if they can keep it from being full of mega-cliches.

[TechnoGothic]

NO...

...Africa was one of the worst books ever, England a close second.
Lets not recycle the trash, ok.

[abtex]

NO...

...Africa was one of the worst books ever, England a close second.
Lets not recycle the trash, ok.

Both were very early World books. Sometimes Palladium learns from it errors. Recycling can provide a better produce. Yes we need to give them a second try at Africa and even England.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

sure a redo of Africa be cool

things to Drop
The Gathering of the Heroes Crap
the Four horsemen
Gods of the nile (maybe)


things to Revisit and expand

The Phoenix Empire
The Ancient Father
and the other places in Africa

[Reddenedone]

I reeeally liked the Horseman stuff too, some of our best adventures were fighting those guys (wowie).

I wish there was much more information of the rest of the continent though - but I haven't even opened the book in almost a decade.

[Slag]

I think instead of re-writing, they should publish another book with more details, expanding on those things in the original. Then may be a third book to further correct or cover anything that they missed.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

I think instead of re-writing, they should publish another book with more details, expanding on those things in the original. Then may be a third book to further correct or cover anything that they missed.

Also

There was talks about Africa 2, though they went belly-up for whatever reason.

~ Josh

[Marrowlight]

I think instead of re-writing, they should publish another book with more details, expanding on those things in the original. Then may be a third book to further correct or cover anything that they missed.

Also

There was talks about Africa 2, though they went belly-up for whatever reason.

~ Josh

Manuscript was bad, or at least not accepted, I thought?

[DocS]

The thing that was wrong with Rifts:Africa is the same thing that was wrong with Rifts:England and the same thing that was RIGHT about a lot Rifts North America (And even Rifts: Underseas and a lot of Rifts South America)

Any good post-apocalyptic game asks "What was there before The cataclysm happened for people to build on?" Then they have the people literally 'build' from there.

For Africa and England, almost no thought was put towards what 'Pre-rifts' Africa and England were like, all they did was take ancient English/African ideas, give them MDC and a little techno-twist and sold it to us. We have a much better idea of what Pre-rifts America or Germany was like, and what people built off of.

And for Africa, this is sad since there is so much that could be done after starting off of a 'what's in Africa'. The world's largest Mercenary army? HQ'd in Cape Town. South Africa... got big mercenary group, got De Beers, a volatile mix of cultures and possible magics, naval history, and that's just off the top of my head for South Africa Today. Add some sci-fi future, throw in a big dollop of Rifts, and it could make its own book... and that's just one country.

I liked The horsemen and The gathering of heroes, I just thought that they didn't do anything with 'em. Just stats, and no nefarious plans at all between 'em. When I see a bad guy named 'Death', I want to see how this bad guy is going to kill billions of people, and I didn't see that, only stats and how he'd be nasty in a fistfight.

[grandmaster z0b]

The thing that was wrong with Rifts:Africa is the same thing that was wrong with Rifts:England and the same thing that was RIGHT about a lot Rifts North America (And even Rifts: Underseas and a lot of Rifts South America)

Any good post-apocalyptic game asks "What was there before The cataclysm happened for people to build on?" Then they have the people literally 'build' from there.

For Africa and England, almost no thought was put towards what 'Pre-rifts' Africa and England were like, all they did was take ancient English/African ideas, give them MDC and a little techno-twist and sold it to us. We have a much better idea of what Pre-rifts America or Germany was like, and what people built off of.

And for Africa, this is sad since there is so much that could be done after starting off of a 'what's in Africa'. The world's largest Mercenary army? HQ'd in Cape Town. South Africa... got big mercenary group, got De Beers, a volatile mix of cultures and possible magics, naval history, and that's just off the top of my head for South Africa Today. Add some sci-fi future, throw in a big dollop of Rifts, and it could make its own book... and that's just one country.

I liked The horsemen and The gathering of heroes, I just thought that they didn't do anything with 'em. Just stats, and no nefarious plans at all between 'em. When I see a bad guy named 'Death', I want to see how this bad guy is going to kill billions of people, and I didn't see that, only stats and how he'd be nasty in a fistfight.

Totally agree, that's a great third post, welcome to the boards.

[Shades of Eternity]

indeed

[DocS]

thanks for the votes of confidence.

It's good to know there are other people out there who would love to see diamond glittering African Power armors with Rainmaker backup. I just wanted to call the S. African empire 'The Executive', because the Merc group is called 'Executive Outcomes' and it also sounds really snazzy in a Africaner accent!

[Mech-Viper Prime]

The thing that was wrong with Rifts:Africa is the same thing that was wrong with Rifts:England and the same thing that was RIGHT about a lot Rifts North America (And even Rifts: Underseas and a lot of Rifts South America)

Any good post-apocalyptic game asks "What was there before The cataclysm happened for people to build on?" Then they have the people literally 'build' from there.

For Africa and England, almost no thought was put towards what 'Pre-rifts' Africa and England were like, all they did was take ancient English/African ideas, give them MDC and a little techno-twist and sold it to us. We have a much better idea of what Pre-rifts America or Germany was like, and what people built off of.

And for Africa, this is sad since there is so much that could be done after starting off of a 'what's in Africa'. The world's largest Mercenary army? HQ'd in Cape Town. South Africa... got big mercenary group, got De Beers, a volatile mix of cultures and possible magics, naval history, and that's just off the top of my head for South Africa Today. Add some sci-fi future, throw in a big dollop of Rifts, and it could make its own book... and that's just one country.

I liked The horsemen and The gathering of heroes, I just thought that they didn't do anything with 'em. Just stats, and no nefarious plans at all between 'em. When I see a bad guy named 'Death', I want to see how this bad guy is going to kill billions of people, and I didn't see that, only stats and how he'd be nasty in a fistfight.

wow, i must say that is a homerun swing right there,

[Nxla666]

I'd rather see England burned... um... I mean redone before Africa.

I say update Africa and give more info on the Pheonix Empire, and other powers there.

[Subjugator]

Good point. Death should've gotten his hands on some REAL nukes, had war enhance them a bit (say to the 150 megaton range) and started popping them off like they were lady fingers. It'd also have been interesting to see what they'd do with magic - maybe magic illnesses that would require serious PPE to get rid of or the creation of addictive magical substances that drive people to kill.

It'd be cool to see what Executive Outcomes (or their replacements, since EO is no longer operational...maybe BlackWater or Cosmos?) would do during the holocaust.

The other problem I have with this is that there are WAY too many powerful entities involved on this planet to let the comparative wimp Death kill everything without opposition. Consider what would happen if the Lord of the Deep and Death went toe to toe...or for that matter, Splynncryth, Nxla, or any one of a dozen other super baddies!

Sub

[DocS]

Oooh, War with Nukes and the urge to use 'em... now we're cookin with Evil gas!

Each of the Horsemen needed some sort of ability to rain GLOBAL destruction. This is good for them as a menace and good to bring characters involved. I would think it fitting to have a worldwide plague of some sort that strikes all, human and deebee alike, shuts down everything else and has Pestilence as the center. No more of this 'Psychics have bad dreams so heroes are going to Africa', no no no no no. More like 15% of the CS dies due to some horrible virulent nastyness, and everywhere in North America, xiticix, Kittani, even dragons, are dying of this same thing, and the only lead is the one Psi-Bat plague survivor who just sits around mumbling and scribbling out a map of Africa...

Add some good Famine (or be a little more creative. A Worldwide drought or perhaps PPE shortage? What can be strangled to make Rift's Earth squeeze?). Make some sort of worldwide shortage that is bringing everyone to their knees.

Add the self destruction of formerly close allies. Why is Atlantis not taking over? For some reason, Splynncryth has a Kydian civil war brewing and he's trying to not have his little cash cow get destroyed by it! In fact, have Splyncryth take a holiday somewhere safer leaving Atlantis in less competent hands because things have gotten a little 'unstable'. Splynny is wondering if keeping Atlantis may become more trouble than its worth.

The Four Horsemen were supposed to be one of the Great Four Menaces of Rifts Earth, it would not have been overpowered to give them enough power to make everyone desperate! Well, everyone but The Lord of The Deep, perhaps The Lord wouldn't care, or does it have The Plague and is going even more insane and frenzied? It may die, but with its lifespan it will be the last one to go and in the meantime it's berserk.

For however long The Horsemen Ride, all differences are temporarily forgotten. If it doesn't get this bad, then there's no reason for the gathering of heroes. Now with all the World books, people can play with exactly how bad things would get in different parts of the world.

The whole 'necromancers siding with Death' idea... I don't like it. Being undead isn't so bad. I'd have Death be total and absolute ending of existence. Have Necromancers actually fearing this being. It doesn't consume you or possess you or any of that rot. Being killed, possessed or consumed, Necromancers can work with that. When this being is done with you, you simply do not exist any more. You're done, gone, kaput. Its goal is the total ending of all existence, living, undead, robotic, sentient, non-sentient, When universes die, this is the being that comes for them. For one glorious world book, have Murder wraiths and cyber knights agree, THIS BEING MUST BE STOPPED!

So, once every other continent is feeling like they're going through a whole new cataclysm, then the Heroes start to come to Africa because it's the only lead they got. Then you can make Africa the MEANEST, NASTIEST, continent. Why is it again the 'dark continent'? Because the Horsemens' presence has locked it off and the poor humans there are surviving in a permanent ongoing apocalypse which if continued will leave the entire place absolutely lifeless. It also needs a barrier of some kind. What fun is it if the party can go to Africa and run out again to grab bigger guns?

maybe that's Death's gig. He has linked with the land and he links with any living/undead/robotic/magical thing that steps upon it. If someone tries to leave it while Death is still present, they die. Now there's motivation to go down to wherever he is and try to put a nuke up his butt. Does it work on dragons? Yes. Does it work on Gods? Yes, which is why no gods will come anywhere near that continent. No one can radio out, people who come in are stuck, the whole continent is cursed. No more of this 'Thor could take War in a fight' malarky. Every pantheon has empty thrones which used to held by Gods who tried to stand against The Horsemen.

To this add the post-apocalyptic African ideas. It would, in this point, be fair to say the Africans are the meanest and toughest beings on the planet and no one knew because they were unable to leave the continent. Don't worry about the taking over once it's over. Since Africa is a perpetual killzone (and the fun would be making enough kinds of horrific killzones to keep every misbegotten inch of that place interesting), the population of Africa is far less than anywhere else. For those poor folks, The Cataclysm never really ended, it just went on for a century.

Here is where I'd have technology and magic working together since the endless horrors are beyond anything that one or the other can handle. Power armor pilots who wear magic fetishes, enchanted plasma guns, What remains of South Africa is a fascist dictatorship because it needs to be because things are just that bad! Human tech and magic alongside some Deebees who were unfortunate enough to rift in here and are stuck trying desperately to survive.

This would be the only place where I'd put a random encounter table. This continent *is* supposed to be so dangerous that you can't go three days of travel without something trying to kill you. And all of it is horrendous abominations that are really nothing but extensions of the nearest Horseman.

Now, how would one defeat these Horsemen? What would their weaknesses be (Millenium wood weapons.. LAME!!!)? Any suggestions? Ponder ponder ponder ponder....

[Toc Rat]

I'd sooner buy a remake of England then Africa.

[Fyrpower]

Being an Englishman, I was severely dissapointed with Rifts England when it came out. I thought it gave a horrible stereotypical cliche of England being associated with the legend of King Arthur and the Knights of Camelot. However I did like alot of the non cliche info like the wildlife and fauna as well as the Fomorii demon invasion it vaguely fleshed out towards the back of the book, now that was good material.

I have my own ideas of what to write up about England and the British Isles and if I feel it would be worth it, I may just get my head into gear and begin to write it up.

[Subjugator]

Oooh, War with Nukes and the urge to use 'em... now we're cookin with Evil gas!

Each of the Horsemen needed some sort of ability to rain GLOBAL destruction. This is good for them as a menace and good to bring characters involved. I would think it fitting to have a worldwide plague of some sort that strikes all, human and deebee alike, shuts down everything else and has Pestilence as the center. No more of this 'Psychics have bad dreams so heroes are going to Africa', no no no no no. More like 15% of the CS dies due to some horrible virulent nastyness, and everywhere in North America, xiticix, Kittani, even dragons, are dying of this same thing, and the only lead is the one Psi-Bat plague survivor who just sits around mumbling and scribbling out a map of Africa...

Add some good Famine (or be a little more creative. A Worldwide drought or perhaps PPE shortage? What can be strangled to make Rift's Earth squeeze?). Make some sort of worldwide shortage that is bringing everyone to their knees.

Add the self destruction of formerly close allies. Why is Atlantis not taking over? For some reason, Splynncryth has a Kydian civil war brewing and he's trying to not have his little cash cow get destroyed by it! In fact, have Splyncryth take a holiday somewhere safer leaving Atlantis in less competent hands because things have gotten a little 'unstable'. Splynny is wondering if keeping Atlantis may become more trouble than its worth.

The Four Horsemen were supposed to be one of the Great Four Menaces of Rifts Earth, it would not have been overpowered to give them enough power to make everyone desperate! Well, everyone but The Lord of The Deep, perhaps The Lord wouldn't care, or does it have The Plague and is going even more insane and frenzied? It may die, but with its lifespan it will be the last one to go and in the meantime it's berserk.

For however long The Horsemen Ride, all differences are temporarily forgotten. If it doesn't get this bad, then there's no reason for the gathering of heroes. Now with all the World books, people can play with exactly how bad things would get in different parts of the world.

The whole 'necromancers siding with Death' idea... I don't like it. Being undead isn't so bad. I'd have Death be total and absolute ending of existence. Have Necromancers actually fearing this being. It doesn't consume you or possess you or any of that rot. Being killed, possessed or consumed, Necromancers can work with that. When this being is done with you, you simply do not exist any more. You're done, gone, kaput. Its goal is the total ending of all existence, living, undead, robotic, sentient, non-sentient, When universes die, this is the being that comes for them. For one glorious world book, have Murder wraiths and cyber knights agree, THIS BEING MUST BE STOPPED!

So, once every other continent is feeling like they're going through a whole new cataclysm, then the Heroes start to come to Africa because it's the only lead they got. Then you can make Africa the MEANEST, NASTIEST, continent. Why is it again the 'dark continent'? Because the Horsemens' presence has locked it off and the poor humans there are surviving in a permanent ongoing apocalypse which if continued will leave the entire place absolutely lifeless. It also needs a barrier of some kind. What fun is it if the party can go to Africa and run out again to grab bigger guns?

maybe that's Death's gig. He has linked with the land and he links with any living/undead/robotic/magical thing that steps upon it. If someone tries to leave it while Death is still present, they die. Now there's motivation to go down to wherever he is and try to put a nuke up his butt. Does it work on dragons? Yes. Does it work on Gods? Yes, which is why no gods will come anywhere near that continent. No one can radio out, people who come in are stuck, the whole continent is cursed. No more of this 'Thor could take War in a fight' malarky. Every pantheon has empty thrones which used to held by Gods who tried to stand against The Horsemen.

To this add the post-apocalyptic African ideas. It would, in this point, be fair to say the Africans are the meanest and toughest beings on the planet and no one knew because they were unable to leave the continent. Don't worry about the taking over once it's over. Since Africa is a perpetual killzone (and the fun would be making enough kinds of horrific killzones to keep every misbegotten inch of that place interesting), the population of Africa is far less than anywhere else. For those poor folks, The Cataclysm never really ended, it just went on for a century.

Here is where I'd have technology and magic working together since the endless horrors are beyond anything that one or the other can handle. Power armor pilots who wear magic fetishes, enchanted plasma guns, What remains of South Africa is a fascist dictatorship because it needs to be because things are just that bad! Human tech and magic alongside some Deebees who were unfortunate enough to rift in here and are stuck trying desperately to survive.

This would be the only place where I'd put a random encounter table. This continent *is* supposed to be so dangerous that you can't go three days of travel without something trying to kill you. And all of it is horrendous abominations that are really nothing but extensions of the nearest Horseman.

Now, how would one defeat these Horsemen? What would their weaknesses be (Millenium wood weapons.. LAME!!!)? Any suggestions? Ponder ponder ponder ponder....

I'd buy this book.

Sub

[Marcantony]

NO...

...Africa was one of the worst books ever, England a close second.
Lets not recycle the trash, ok.

You know the writer does post here on occassion so how about being a little less rude? A simple I didnt like it wouldve done it.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Oooh, War with Nukes and the urge to use 'em... now we're cookin with Evil gas!

Each of the Horsemen needed some sort of ability to rain GLOBAL destruction. This is good for them as a menace and good to bring characters involved. I would think it fitting to have a worldwide plague of some sort that strikes all, human and deebee alike, shuts down everything else and has Pestilence as the center. No more of this 'Psychics have bad dreams so heroes are going to Africa', no no no no no. More like 15% of the CS dies due to some horrible virulent nastyness, and everywhere in North America, xiticix, Kittani, even dragons, are dying of this same thing, and the only lead is the one Psi-Bat plague survivor who just sits around mumbling and scribbling out a map of Africa...

Add some good Famine (or be a little more creative. A Worldwide drought or perhaps PPE shortage? What can be strangled to make Rift's Earth squeeze?). Make some sort of worldwide shortage that is bringing everyone to their knees.

Add the self destruction of formerly close allies. Why is Atlantis not taking over? For some reason, Splynncryth has a Kydian civil war brewing and he's trying to not have his little cash cow get destroyed by it! In fact, have Splyncryth take a holiday somewhere safer leaving Atlantis in less competent hands because things have gotten a little 'unstable'. Splynny is wondering if keeping Atlantis may become more trouble than its worth.

The Four Horsemen were supposed to be one of the Great Four Menaces of Rifts Earth, it would not have been overpowered to give them enough power to make everyone desperate! Well, everyone but The Lord of The Deep, perhaps The Lord wouldn't care, or does it have The Plague and is going even more insane and frenzied? It may die, but with its lifespan it will be the last one to go and in the meantime it's berserk.

For however long The Horsemen Ride, all differences are temporarily forgotten. If it doesn't get this bad, then there's no reason for the gathering of heroes. Now with all the World books, people can play with exactly how bad things would get in different parts of the world.

The whole 'necromancers siding with Death' idea... I don't like it. Being undead isn't so bad. I'd have Death be total and absolute ending of existence. Have Necromancers actually fearing this being. It doesn't consume you or possess you or any of that rot. Being killed, possessed or consumed, Necromancers can work with that. When this being is done with you, you simply do not exist any more. You're done, gone, kaput. Its goal is the total ending of all existence, living, undead, robotic, sentient, non-sentient, When universes die, this is the being that comes for them. For one glorious world book, have Murder wraiths and cyber knights agree, THIS BEING MUST BE STOPPED!

So, once every other continent is feeling like they're going through a whole new cataclysm, then the Heroes start to come to Africa because it's the only lead they got. Then you can make Africa the MEANEST, NASTIEST, continent. Why is it again the 'dark continent'? Because the Horsemens' presence has locked it off and the poor humans there are surviving in a permanent ongoing apocalypse which if continued will leave the entire place absolutely lifeless. It also needs a barrier of some kind. What fun is it if the party can go to Africa and run out again to grab bigger guns?

maybe that's Death's gig. He has linked with the land and he links with any living/undead/robotic/magical thing that steps upon it. If someone tries to leave it while Death is still present, they die. Now there's motivation to go down to wherever he is and try to put a nuke up his butt. Does it work on dragons? Yes. Does it work on Gods? Yes, which is why no gods will come anywhere near that continent. No one can radio out, people who come in are stuck, the whole continent is cursed. No more of this 'Thor could take War in a fight' malarky. Every pantheon has empty thrones which used to held by Gods who tried to stand against The Horsemen.

To this add the post-apocalyptic African ideas. It would, in this point, be fair to say the Africans are the meanest and toughest beings on the planet and no one knew because they were unable to leave the continent. Don't worry about the taking over once it's over. Since Africa is a perpetual killzone (and the fun would be making enough kinds of horrific killzones to keep every misbegotten inch of that place interesting), the population of Africa is far less than anywhere else. For those poor folks, The Cataclysm never really ended, it just went on for a century.

Here is where I'd have technology and magic working together since the endless horrors are beyond anything that one or the other can handle. Power armor pilots who wear magic fetishes, enchanted plasma guns, What remains of South Africa is a fascist dictatorship because it needs to be because things are just that bad! Human tech and magic alongside some Deebees who were unfortunate enough to rift in here and are stuck trying desperately to survive.

This would be the only place where I'd put a random encounter table. This continent *is* supposed to be so dangerous that you can't go three days of travel without something trying to kill you. And all of it is horrendous abominations that are really nothing but extensions of the nearest Horseman.

Now, how would one defeat these Horsemen? What would their weaknesses be (Millenium wood weapons.. LAME!!!)? Any suggestions? Ponder ponder ponder ponder....

now this just scares the hell out of me

[Kelorin]

Oooh, War with Nukes and the urge to use 'em... now we're cookin with Evil gas!

Each of the Horsemen needed some sort of ability to rain GLOBAL destruction. This is good for them as a menace and good to bring characters involved. I would think it fitting to have a worldwide plague of some sort that strikes all, human and deebee alike, shuts down everything else and has Pestilence as the center. No more of this 'Psychics have bad dreams so heroes are going to Africa', no no no no no. More like 15% of the CS dies due to some horrible virulent nastyness, and everywhere in North America, xiticix, Kittani, even dragons, are dying of this same thing, and the only lead is the one Psi-Bat plague survivor who just sits around mumbling and scribbling out a map of Africa...

Add some good Famine (or be a little more creative. A Worldwide drought or perhaps PPE shortage? What can be strangled to make Rift's Earth squeeze?). Make some sort of worldwide shortage that is bringing everyone to their knees.

Add the self destruction of formerly close allies. Why is Atlantis not taking over? For some reason, Splynncryth has a Kydian civil war brewing and he's trying to not have his little cash cow get destroyed by it! In fact, have Splyncryth take a holiday somewhere safer leaving Atlantis in less competent hands because things have gotten a little 'unstable'. Splynny is wondering if keeping Atlantis may become more trouble than its worth.

The Four Horsemen were supposed to be one of the Great Four Menaces of Rifts Earth, it would not have been overpowered to give them enough power to make everyone desperate! Well, everyone but The Lord of The Deep, perhaps The Lord wouldn't care, or does it have The Plague and is going even more insane and frenzied? It may die, but with its lifespan it will be the last one to go and in the meantime it's berserk.

For however long The Horsemen Ride, all differences are temporarily forgotten. If it doesn't get this bad, then there's no reason for the gathering of heroes. Now with all the World books, people can play with exactly how bad things would get in different parts of the world.

The whole 'necromancers siding with Death' idea... I don't like it. Being undead isn't so bad. I'd have Death be total and absolute ending of existence. Have Necromancers actually fearing this being. It doesn't consume you or possess you or any of that rot. Being killed, possessed or consumed, Necromancers can work with that. When this being is done with you, you simply do not exist any more. You're done, gone, kaput. Its goal is the total ending of all existence, living, undead, robotic, sentient, non-sentient, When universes die, this is the being that comes for them. For one glorious world book, have Murder wraiths and cyber knights agree, THIS BEING MUST BE STOPPED!

So, once every other continent is feeling like they're going through a whole new cataclysm, then the Heroes start to come to Africa because it's the only lead they got. Then you can make Africa the MEANEST, NASTIEST, continent. Why is it again the 'dark continent'? Because the Horsemens' presence has locked it off and the poor humans there are surviving in a permanent ongoing apocalypse which if continued will leave the entire place absolutely lifeless. It also needs a barrier of some kind. What fun is it if the party can go to Africa and run out again to grab bigger guns?

maybe that's Death's gig. He has linked with the land and he links with any living/undead/robotic/magical thing that steps upon it. If someone tries to leave it while Death is still present, they die. Now there's motivation to go down to wherever he is and try to put a nuke up his butt. Does it work on dragons? Yes. Does it work on Gods? Yes, which is why no gods will come anywhere near that continent. No one can radio out, people who come in are stuck, the whole continent is cursed. No more of this 'Thor could take War in a fight' malarky. Every pantheon has empty thrones which used to held by Gods who tried to stand against The Horsemen.

To this add the post-apocalyptic African ideas. It would, in this point, be fair to say the Africans are the meanest and toughest beings on the planet and no one knew because they were unable to leave the continent. Don't worry about the taking over once it's over. Since Africa is a perpetual killzone (and the fun would be making enough kinds of horrific killzones to keep every misbegotten inch of that place interesting), the population of Africa is far less than anywhere else. For those poor folks, The Cataclysm never really ended, it just went on for a century.

Here is where I'd have technology and magic working together since the endless horrors are beyond anything that one or the other can handle. Power armor pilots who wear magic fetishes, enchanted plasma guns, What remains of South Africa is a fascist dictatorship because it needs to be because things are just that bad! Human tech and magic alongside some Deebees who were unfortunate enough to rift in here and are stuck trying desperately to survive.

This would be the only place where I'd put a random encounter table. This continent *is* supposed to be so dangerous that you can't go three days of travel without something trying to kill you. And all of it is horrendous abominations that are really nothing but extensions of the nearest Horseman.

Now, how would one defeat these Horsemen? What would their weaknesses be (Millenium wood weapons.. LAME!!!)? Any suggestions? Ponder ponder ponder ponder....

HOLY COW. That is amazing. Only 5 posts so far, but what great posts they are!. Any chance we can get you to submit THE manuscript for Africa 2?

Some quick ideas inspired by what you've started:
1) These are THE horsemen of the Apocalypse. Their arrival, normally heralds the death of a realm. I agree, that the effects of their presence should be noticeable across the dimension, and not in just one isolated corner.
2) The entire continent of Africa is slowly being converted into a realm of unlife, similar to the Nightlands or Death Dimension suggested in the Megaverse Builder. In some areas, it is a land of perpetual twilight, and like the Yucatan peninsula is shrouded in mist or darkness preventing high-altitude observation. Truly the dark continent, again.
3) Some of the other 'big players' actually start relocating from Rifts Earth.
4) The Death effect prevents natural healing within the continent, almost like a continent wide Dim Mak, and thus everything there is slowly dying. As suggested, this effect also interferes with Supernatural regeneration. Only specific healing magic can counteract this. Juicers arriving in continent are in big trouble..
5) The only places, in the continent where this is not occuring are at certain safe zones (like the around The Great Father), and other warded areas being kept safe by the constant and tireless efforts of African Shamans.
6) Famines and unnatural diseases are cropping up elsewhere in the world. Border clashes, and simmering tensions are escalating into full blown wars (Tolkeen for example). Global 'naturally occuring' mortality rates skyrocket, greatly impacting the global population particularly the elderly, and very young.
7) War locates a pre-Rifts cache of nukes, (ie the big nukes as described in CS Navy). and is in the process of enhancing them, effectively turning them into TW-nukes. The resulting weapons are particularly dangerous to Alien Intelligences and Gods because, in addition to doing MDC damage, they do PPE damage. ie. inflict 1D6x1000 MDC to a Alien Intelligence, but also inflict 1D6x100 PPE damage the the creatures permanent base, and cannot be restored. Due to the death effect in place, and the dimensional barriers any Gods or Alien Intelligences hit with these weapons, cannot simply dimensionally teleport away to lick their wounds.
8.) One of the goals of amalgamated Apocalypse entity would be to open a permanent portal to the home dimension of the Mechanoids, thus ensuring the destruction of most of the humanoid life in every corner of Rifts Earth.

[DocS]

Can't go foreward with these big baddies without a weakness for 'em. Anyways, I'm already working on a Rifter Submission (Lets hope my ideas for ARCHIE-3 are seen with this level of enthusiasm).

Meanwhile... as for weaknesses for The Horsemen, I'm trying to think about how you'd design these big baddies to go down. Something that Gods can't do but PC's can. My initial thinking is stuff that's almost zen-like.

To beat War, the party must walk into his section unarmed and unarmored? Do a series of adventures where the party must play the role of the ultimate pacifists? Needs more... but there's something there..

Maybe Pestilence requires some sort of scavanger hunt (gather the greatest medicine, and the greatest healer, and the greatest hospital while dodging nasty plague locusts etc..).

Famine, can't think of anything good yet.

Too abstract? Maybe also give the big bad Horseys some stats (like Lord of The Deep) so The Party can try for atomization if they can think of a way. But I want every horseman to somehow have a weakness that a Party can exploit so the PC's can save the world. This needs to be custom designed for five or six folks to stop The Horsemen where Lord Splyncryth himself would fail.

No healing... oooh.. that's harsh. That's so very harsh. I like it!!!

Meanwhile, here's a little tidbit I found. There are not four horsemen mentioned in Revelations, there are five. Just the fifth is not mentioned until chapter 19 and is in a much different light.

Revelation 19:11
"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war."

To bring it all home (and defeat Death), I'd have The Party somehow take the role of this 'Horseman'. Perhaps in an abstract way (Is there a defunct orbital platform called "Stallion" that can be brought into African Airspace, etc..).

[grandmaster z0b]

Can't go foreward with these big baddies without a weakness for 'em. Anyways, I'm already working on a Rifter Submission (Lets hope my ideas for ARCHIE-3 are seen with this level of enthusiasm).

Meanwhile... as for weaknesses for The Horsemen, I'm trying to think about how you'd design these big baddies to go down. Something that Gods can't do but PC's can. My initial thinking is stuff that's almost zen-like.

To beat War, the party must walk into his section unarmed and unarmored? Do a series of adventures where the party must play the role of the ultimate pacifists? Needs more... but there's something there..

Maybe Pestilence requires some sort of scavanger hunt (gather the greatest medicine, and the greatest healer, and the greatest hospital while dodging nasty plague locusts etc..).

Famine, can't think of anything good yet.

Too abstract? Maybe also give the big bad Horseys some stats (like Lord of The Deep) so The Party can try for atomization if they can think of a way. But I want every horseman to somehow have a weakness that a Party can exploit so the PC's can save the world. This needs to be custom designed for five or six folks to stop The Horsemen where Lord Splyncryth himself would fail.

No healing... oooh.. that's harsh. That's so very harsh. I like it!!!

Meanwhile, here's a little tidbit I found. There are not four horsemen mentioned in Revelations, there are five. Just the fifth is not mentioned until chapter 19 and is in a much different light.

Revelation 19:11
"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war."

To bring it all home (and defeat Death), I'd have The Party somehow take the role of this 'Horseman'. Perhaps in an abstract way (Is there a defunct orbital platform called "Stallion" that can be brought into African Airspace, etc..).

For Famine, what if his weakness was being forced to eat? Something really uncommon but consuming food would do major damage to him and weaken his powers?

Death's weakness could be pregnant women and newborns. The sight of them could paralyze him and also weaken his powers?

Pesilence's weakness ... I'm drawing blanks.

But those are my suggestions.

I like those weaknesses, what if Pestilence's vulnerability was healing spells/psionics? Every healing spell cast on him does damage x2 instead?

Either that or lure him into water so that he loses his bug armour.

[The Galactus Kid]

Just throw a phoenix down on Death...

[grandmaster z0b]

I don't think eliminating hunger in Africa is a reasonable adventure for Rifts, just to make Famine weak, it doesn't seem possible.

[Marrowlight]

I don't think eliminating hunger in Africa is a reasonable adventure for Rifts, just to make Famine weak, it doesn't seem possible.

And feeding Famine is? How are you supposed to stuff a double cheeseburger down its gullet anyway?

Tell him it's a Nightlord 0 cal food product?

[grandmaster z0b]

I don't think eliminating hunger in Africa is a reasonable adventure for Rifts, just to make Famine weak, it doesn't seem possible.

And feeding Famine is? How are you supposed to stuff a double cheeseburger down its gullet anyway?

Tell him it's a Nightlord 0 cal food product?

Here's an idea to think about.

Famine is a really fat guy. Just because he causes starvation doesn't mean he automatically has to suffer from it.

Well it's easier to shove some food in his gullett than to feed a continent. What are the players supposed to do, a post-Rifts Band Aid or Live Aid? Maybe summon Bob Geldof himself?

Actually I think we're on the right track but niether option is that achievable.

[Marrowlight]

Wait, I've got it.

We redo England and Africa together -- or rather, you take the Horsemen and you dump them on England instead of Africa.

It's genius! Absolute Genius!

[grandmaster z0b]

Wait, I've got it.

We redo England and Africa together -- or rather, you take the Horsemen and you dump them on England instead of Africa.

It's genius! Absolute Genius!

I think we need to Remake Africa and England altogether and put the 4 Horsemen in another book completely.

[Marrowlight]

Wait, I've got it.

We redo England and Africa together -- or rather, you take the Horsemen and you dump them on England instead of Africa.

It's genius! Absolute Genius!

I think we need to Remake Africa and England altogether and put the 4 Horsemen in another book completely.

Noooooo, it'll be glorious. Just think of it.

[grandmaster z0b]

I don't think eliminating hunger in Africa is a reasonable adventure for Rifts, just to make Famine weak, it doesn't seem possible.

And feeding Famine is? How are you supposed to stuff a double cheeseburger down its gullet anyway?

Tell him it's a Nightlord 0 cal food product?

Here's an idea to think about.

Famine is a really fat guy. Just because he causes starvation doesn't mean he automatically has to suffer from it.

Well it's easier to shove some food in his gullett than to feed a continent. What are the players supposed to do, a post-Rifts Band Aid or Live Aid? Maybe summon Bob Geldof himself?

Actually I think we're on the right track but niether option is that achievable.

First off, there aren't nearly as many people on the continent as there are today. 2nd, the players are supposed to HELP...not do it their selves. If any party of "adventurers" are taking on the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse by themselves...then their GM needs to be beaten and their munchkin character sheets need to be burned.

Actually I was trying to be funny.

Seriously though, you critisised the concept of forcefeeding Famine and I'm critisising your feed the continent idea, there's no need to be defensive. Of course the players aren't supposed to defeat the Horsemen themselves, but they are supposed to make a significant contribution.

That's why I'm interested in this thread, I've never playered the Horsemen because they seem too powerful. However if I was able to iintroduce some special vulnerabilities then I could actually pit the players against them.

Originally I was going to go with a TW railgun that shot shards of a millenium tree...

[grandmaster z0b]

Sorry, I suppose it was the listing of objections that made it sound defensive to me, sorry again for any misunderstanding.

I just don't think that a small party of adventures have any chance of making a change to the poverty and hunger in Africa unless the entire campaign was directed towards it which doesn't sound like very much fun.

I would rather a third option.

[Library Ogre]

Actually, I don't think the idea of the Horseman being their own sourcebook, had it been done that way from the outset, would've been a bad one. Simply make them a sourcebook, along with a few ways to integrate them into a few different settings (if they appear in Europe, in Australia, in Japan, etc.)

[DocS]

In the second Rifts Sourcebook, they did a brilliant thing and promised the SEVEN GREAT DANGERS TO RIFTS EARTH. And, The First danger, by most accounts, was worth it.

The Mechanoids were indeed particle blasting killing machines which even in their invasion infancy have probably killed more PC's than any any other single Rifts opponent. Every Rifts player I've run into has the "And then the GM brought in Mechanoids, at which time our glitter boy was blasted to bacon bits" Alliteration aside, Mechanoids were worthy of the title. It was great! I showed my party fear, I showed them pain, I killed off most of the NPC's and several party members via energy blasts, psionic manipulation, or good old fashioned torture. "Oh look, I'm a werewolf" one of my party cried claiming immunity to particle beams, "Oh look! that brute has four psi-swords!" I responded and sliced him to chutney. They fought, they cried, they screamed, they died, and when it was over they felt like they had saved the friggan world! And after that, I couldn't wait for the NEXT BIG THREATS.

And one of them was... Mrrlyn!? Who... really... er... isn't up to much at all. He's supposed to be one of the TOP SEVEN THREATS (Splyncryth... not on the list, Vampire Kingdoms... nope, Lord of The Deep... not even an honorable mention) and all he does is sit around and tell the guy with the magic sword to do stuff. Sometimes Mrrlyn tries to get Mr Magic sword a girlfriend (btw, she's the sexiest thing on all of Rifts... unfortunate book, but she's got all that AND a bag 'o MDC). Not that the guy with the magic sword is that influential, he isn't, and the CS will simply wipe England from the map makinMrrlynin wish he could be advising Proseks rather than Pendragons. It's not only that Mrrlyn was kind of disappointing, it's that he was supposed to be in the top seven threats and given 15 years he's not even made a blip. Angel of Death? Manipulating armies of angry Demons and Gargoyles. Mrrlynn? Wondering whether anyone would get the joke if he named the next knight 'Sir Perfluous".


Did I mention the magic sword isn't even that good? Doesn't even give a +1 to parry.

That's not 100% fair, the sword had a cool concept behind it and I could see pages and pages of English Psi-Tech items which were developed by the SAS. If only... If only...

Then again, at least a +1 to parry would have been nice.. Balanced weapons get a +1 to parry... couldn't the SAS have balanced it? Techno-arcane genetic attunement and they can't balance the friggan sword?

Come to think of it, Mrrlyn doesn't even have a Bonus to parry. Take a look! Only being in all of Rifts; PP of 22; no bonus to parry. Even Splynncryth has a +2.

At least Arthuu has a +8 to parry, which is good, because his sword aint helpin him any on it.

And so The Great Danger of World book 3 was revealed to much lack of fear and rejoicing. Which brought us to World book Four. Which had FOUR of the SEVEN great dangers (keep in mind, the Mechanoids were only ONE danger, these guys were supposed to be them times four).

They had the big names, cool pictures, and... er... big names and cool pictures. And those pictures were pretty darned cool. That spinny mace thingee, the beetle staff, Death had four arms! How cool was that? Um... and... they had a lot of MDC and if Death Himself tried to 'life drain" a level 1 PC, it only worked 3 times out of four (Level 15 life drain, save is 15 and above, plus PE bonus if applicable.)

These things were designed to draw every hero to Africa, they should have trumped everything! Seven great dangers, here are four of them, and they claim the title 'apocalypse' to a world where the populace stopped being impressed by nuclear missiles 100 years ago.

This book should have had 'Book of Revelations' level carnage! Literally! It would have been fair to give these things global nasty abilities to trump everything. I wanted to hear Simbeida thinking "Splynncryth has +6 vs Horror factor, which he's going to need because these guys are four of the top seven scariest things on the planet while Splynny didn't even make the cut! Just one big eyeball... not scary enough"

Meanwhile, any villain is meant for only one fate, to be foiled and obliterated by a party of PC's. The Four Horsemen were no different, I just wanted their dials turned up to Eleven and the book to explore how a party is supposed to go through the epic, apocalyptic, soul-wrenching "that campaign was so good, my MOM needed a cigarette afterwards; and she's been dead for years!" sort of gambit that would earn the big names and big expectations. We've seen big adventures and plot modules, this should have put them to shame with its pedigree and expectation (ok, by this point it had one bad book, but we all have bad days, right?). We could tell, this had been planned for, this had been anticipated and this was one of the ideas that had been mulling around Rifts since its inception (like vampire kingdoms, which... rocked...).

And... well... those pictures were pretty darned cool. They gave us perhaps the best looking Four Horsemen any game had ever given, thank you Kevin Long. But when people wonder about whether this book should have been written to overtake all the others, whether for a solid year the Rifts World should have focused on four beings and nothing else, and whether some intrepid party of PC's would become the first Global legends in a World gone gloriously mad.

I say: yes.

'Own SOurcebook'? The Seige on Tolkeen got SIX, AND an 'Aftermath' book because we all know that Mindwerks really was affected by the loss of another magic city in Canada. I heard that The Angel of Vengeance had a Shadow Dragon poster on her wall as a child and that she was crying for weeks!

btw, I challenge anyone on this board. Neither Africa no England was the worst book. They at least had about five usable concepts in each and some cool pictures. Rifts: Aftermath, didn't even have that. But the expectations were lower by that point, so the outrage is not so much.

At least the Staff of Death gave a bonus to parry, didn't it?