Help a Taffy out!

[The Artist Formerly]

I'm missing several of my RT books which are over at a friend's house where I left them after the most recent game session. I need someone with their books handy to help me out.

1) I need the page number where I can find it and damage coding for the Stage Five's body armor (which is 50 MDC I'm sure) and their side arm (I think it's 1d6, 800ft with 20 rounds per clip). Should be in Invid Invasion.

2) The common missile loadout mix for the Mic.Bioriod if it's listed. Revised Return of the Masters.

3) Page number where it discusses where ASC Mecha were converted to a pure fussion arangement after the Southern Cross ran out of Protoculture. IIRC, there was no stat reduction which kind of makes Protoculture pointless, so if you have any ideas on what you would do to say a Hovertank running on a pure fusion mix, I'd love to hear them.

Thanx!

[Colonel Wolfe]

1)The only invid body armor I can find is the "Enforcer". the invid Energy istol on pg. 77 dose 2D4, 500ft. 40 blasts, no clip.

2) I have a copy of RTOM 2nd ed... i dont know of a Revised ed.
but it dosent list a common mix, only it usually has Plasma/A.P. or H.E.

3) its is not discussed anywhere in the books. It is listed as fact on pge 77, that all ASc mecha use Fusion power-Hybirds, and the Battaloids are all Fusion. This is in Direct conflict with the Text in SC that lists nothing of the Sort.
The Battaloids do indeed list Fusion Reactors as powerplants.... but so do the VF-1's, RDF-Destroids and ASC Veritechs.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Well, you can use the Page in the unrevised Rifts Conversion book, Page, 35. where within one Paragraph it contradicts its self by saying they all use Protoculture, then "some of" the ACS mecha are nucelear powered, or were designed to be converted essily, but that is niether here nor there as RIFT is not Robotech, and anyhting printed in rifts is not Canon to Robotech RPG....

well.. you could add Robotech/Macross, as Archimedes on pg 105 CB2 is from a wolrd invaded by aliens looking for their Lost ship...or the Dark council on pg 62... who has a 50ft Blueskinned-Alien whos mechawas converted to run on Technowizardry....

[Colonel Wolfe]

For number 3, I believe the original blurb was in the Invid Invasion text, which I don't have on hand, so here's the blurb from Sentinels, p. 126.

Southern Cross mecha can use protoculture or fusion turbines. In fact, all non-transformable battloids rely only on fusion reactors and about half the remaining Southern Cross transformable mecha are fusion powered. That means the protoculture targeting system can not be used on them (no strike bonus).

Directly contradcting the Stats for the Battaloids that List a Muilti-year Protoculture Fuel soruce.(book 4:page 56) and Also contradict the Blerb in the EBSIS Mecha descriptions that say:
"one reason for their Large Size is to Accmoidate the Nuclear power source."(book4 pg 71)

Ebsis Soilder batt. : 35ft tall, KR-t66 Fusion reactor
GMP Battaloid: 20ft tall, MT 844 Fusion reactor....

compare both to the:

RDF Gladiator: 37ft tall: DT-2004 Fusion Reactor.

if the ACs batts are Fusion, so are Every Destroid and Veritech in the RPG.

[Colonel Wolfe]

You don't take having your bubble burst well, do you?

No, that Paragraph is Wrong. its the Same paragraph in Invid invasion, its under Protoculture Targeting systems.

in both Invid invasion and Sentinels where it is Printed, it is in direct conflict with Everything printed beforehand.
ASc Batts use the Same Style of Reactor as all Ground Mecha, but Invid invasion say they were Never Protoculture powered.

the Statement "In fact, all non-transformable battloids rely only on fusion reactors" sets donw the Idea they never Used Protoculture. which they Clearly List the ASC Batts using PC fuel.
also, as the ASc book was written in the Timeframe Well after the Masters engagement was was underway, as both the Invid fighter and Ajacs were not Deployed til the War was half-way over, if they were out of PC... the Ajaxs would have been Pure-Fusion as it was a brand new design to a Out-of-Pc ASC.

[Colonel Wolfe]

no, the EBSIS use the only Nuke-fusion Reactors in the Game.

[The Artist Formerly]

For number 3, I believe the original blurb was in the Invid Invasion text, which I don't have on hand, so here's the blurb from Sentinels, p. 126.

Southern Cross mecha can use protoculture or fusion turbines. In fact, all non-transformable battloids rely only on fusion reactors and about half the remaining Southern Cross transformable mecha are fusion powered. That means the protoculture targeting system can not be used on them (no strike bonus).

Bingo!

[Colonel Wolfe]

For number 3, I believe the original blurb was in the Invid Invasion text, which I don't have on hand, so here's the blurb from Sentinels, p. 126.

Southern Cross mecha can use protoculture or fusion turbines. In fact, all non-transformable battloids rely only on fusion reactors and about half the remaining Southern Cross transformable mecha are fusion powered. That means the protoculture targeting system can not be used on them (no strike bonus).

Bingo!

Wow, you guys who claim the RPG is correct, then completly ignore the Rules in one book when it Suits you.

Read Page 56 in the Scouthren Cross book: ALL ASC Mecha use Protoculture, it mentions nothing about Fusion, not anything beyond that. typical thou....
ALL RED/ASC Mecha use Fussion Turbines/Reactors.... but have Protoculture based Fule, Read the book for once and stop using bits and pieces to make your Arguments work.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Maybe in your game.

Stop trying to bait me, I have no problem with reporting you.

[Lt. Holmes]

I always understood that the ASC mecha were mostly fusion powered, but with enough PC in their reactors to initiate the man-machine link.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Reactors fomr all mecha in robotech:
RDF Mecha "all protoculture powered"
VF-1 Veritech: FF-2201 fusion turbine in each leg
Super-VF-1: FF-2201 fusion turbine in each leg
Excaliber MK VI: MT 828 fusion reactor; output 2800 S.H.P
Gladiator: DT-2004 Fusion reactor; output= 3200 SHP
M.A.C. II:
Main: WT-1001 Fusion Reactor; output- 11500 SHP
secondary: CT-8p Fusion Reactor, output=890 SHP
Raidar X: MT 828 fusion Reactor; Output=2800 SHP

ACS Mecha:
"The Fusion-Protoculture hybirds"
Logan: FH-3001 Fusion turbine
Ajacs: FD-1001 Fusion turbine
Hovertank: MT 842 Fusion reactor

"fusion only"
GMP Battaloid: MT 844 Fusion reactor
TC Recond battaloid: MT 844 Fusion reactor
CU Space Battaloid: MT 844 Fusion reactor
CDC heavy: MT 845 Fusion reactor
CDc Light: MT 845 Fusion reactor

Wow... Looks to me as Every Mecha of the RDF & ASC are Fusion powered.
but According to the Fuel Description for These Mecha, "the Use of Protoculture, through Robotechnology, gives the Battloids and ALL Mecha a Long Life span.


the Exception to this Rule occures with the EBSIS designs:
"one reason for the Larger Size may be to Accomidate the Nuclear power source and Generators of the Mecha, as Proroculture is not Readily avalible, the Ebsis opted for more conventional Power systems"
Ebsis Soilder Battloid: KR-t66 fusion reactor
Ebsis Juggernaut: KR-t89 fusion reactor
Ebsis Recon destroyer battloid: KR-t66 fusion reactor
(note: All Ebsis Mecha are 35+ feet tall, 15+ ft taller then all the ASC ground Mecha)

[Jefffar]

This is one of the (unfortunately many) occasions where one Palaldium Book contradicts another (or contradicts itself int he same book). Most seasoned readers of Palladium know to pick one way over the other for their games.

Personally I use PC as the power source for all the alien Mecha, and as a requirement for Veritechs, The Destroids and Battloids can be nuke or PC powered.

In games where I acknowledge the existence of PC at all. . .

[The Artist Formerly]

For number 3, I believe the original blurb was in the Invid Invasion text, which I don't have on hand, so here's the blurb from Sentinels, p. 126.

Southern Cross mecha can use protoculture or fusion turbines. In fact, all non-transformable battloids rely only on fusion reactors and about half the remaining Southern Cross transformable mecha are fusion powered. That means the protoculture targeting system can not be used on them (no strike bonus).

Bingo!

Wow, you guys who claim the RPG is correct, then completly ignore the Rules in one book when it Suits you.

Not really. Latest addition always takes precident.

Read Page 56 in the Scouthren Cross book: ALL ASC Mecha use Protoculture, it mentions nothing about Fusion, not anything beyond that. typical thou....
ALL RED/ASC Mecha use Fussion Turbines/Reactors.... but have Protoculture based Fule, Read the book for once and stop using bits and pieces to make your Arguments work.

Page 56 of the ASC book covers going in to the second Robotech War. Invid Invasion and Sentinels covers after the war. The ASC must have run out of juice or something.

[The Artist Formerly]

Now then, shouldn't a pure fusion hovertank be less cool then it's Protoculture powered contemporary? That is, if you can reproduce all of the same effects without having to screw around with some ultra limited power source that annoys every Alien race in existance just for using it, why bother screwing around with it in the first place?

[Colonel Wolfe]

For number 3, I believe the original blurb was in the Invid Invasion text, which I don't have on hand, so here's the blurb from Sentinels, p. 126.

Southern Cross mecha can use protoculture or fusion turbines. In fact, all non-transformable battloids rely only on fusion reactors and about half the remaining Southern Cross transformable mecha are fusion powered. That means the protoculture targeting system can not be used on them (no strike bonus).

Bingo!

Wow, you guys who claim the RPG is correct, then completly ignore the Rules in one book when it Suits you.

Not really. Latest addition always takes precident.

Read Page 56 in the Scouthren Cross book: ALL ASC Mecha use Protoculture, it mentions nothing about Fusion, not anything beyond that. typical thou....
ALL RED/ASC Mecha use Fussion Turbines/Reactors.... but have Protoculture based Fule, Read the book for once and stop using bits and pieces to make your Arguments work.

Page 56 of the ASC book covers going in to the second Robotech War. Invid Invasion and Sentinels covers after the war. The ASC must have run out of juice or something.

unfortunatly this Printing of the southren cross book is from 1990, Invidinvasion was Printed in 88, if This "correction" was found out in the Invidinvasion book, then it sould have been corrected in the Latter Printings of the SC book, so they dont contradict.

Yes, ASC Mecha found in the Invid invasion may be Nuke powered... but they were not built by the ASc as such, nor dose the southren Cross book support them Running out of PC after the Second robotech war, as the Invid Invaded earth in 2035. the ASC disbanded in 2033... the war ended in 2032...
having these dates...

The ASC opperated for one and a half more years after the Robotech masters Defeat, but Disband for no apprent reason simply because the WG collapses.... during this time, They Swiched Every Battaloid and 50% of the Veritechs to Fusion power, as Weel as Developing the First PC-Fusion hybirds?
unlikely, as the EBSIS designs are Quite a bit Larger then ASC battalioids, this is to Accomidate the Larger non-PC Fusion reactors.
so the ASc Takes fully charged PC-fusion systems and puts in Nuke-Fusion reactors, I could see this done as an Advantage against the comming Invid, as the Surviving Allied Masters(Musica & Co.)infomring the ACS of the Invid and how they opperate. Giving the ASC a Slight advantage against the incomming invaders...

by the SC book no Pure-Fussion ASC Mecha exist during the Second Robotech war, what was built afterwards or modifications after the war mean nothing.

[Jefffar]

Wolfe, you're giving credit for them finding the mistake in the intervening 2 years.

It only took them what, 6 years to correct leaving an entire RCC out of Rifts Africa.

[The Artist Formerly]

One of the over arching theams to the Robotech story is a lack of sufficent energy to go around.

The Masters didn't have enough power, so they took what they wanted from the Invid. When the Zentraedi first showed up in Earth Space it was because they were desperately short on that same power. That lack of power would drive the Robotech Masters to the lowest point of their existance before pulling them off into that sweet goodnight. The Regent and the Regis would both be driven to unbelivable acts of depravity by this same lack of power and the drive to regain it. In this repeating theam, why would humanity be spared the sword?

[Colonel Wolfe]

One of the over arching theams to the Robotech story is a lack of sufficent energy to go around.

The Masters didn't have enough power, so they took what they wanted from the Invid. When the Zentraedi first showed up in Earth Space it was because they were desperately short on that same power. That lack of power would drive the Robotech Masters to the lowest point of their existance before pulling them off into that sweet goodnight. The Regent and the Regis would both be driven to unbelivable acts of depravity by this same lack of power and the drive to regain it. In this repeating theam, why would humanity be spared the sword?

Easy, The Humans account for such a Small % of Protoculture Use, its not a Matter to them, If humanitywas Ever Low, then why did they bother comming to Earth to get it?

The Zents are Low on a Massive-Fleet Level, is Low 50%? 40%? 10%? After Breetias coments on being "Low power" Ships under his command continue to opperate for 2 Full years, and are never scene being Decommisoned in the Series. his commnet come before the Taking of the Factory Satalite.
If 500,000 ships under Breetia command are "Low" the Energy Stored in these Ships could be Used to power Thousands of Smaller Human ships & hundreds of Thousands of Mecha.

The Masters are "Almost out" yet the sustain Combat operations against the Earth for over a year.

The Invid are not Drawn to Protoculture, they are drawn to the flower of Life.

Humanistys Forces are Tiny compared to both the Masters and the Zents. the only Force they outnumber in the Series are the Invid. What it Takes to power 1% of the Zent Fleet is more then enough to power Everything humnaity made in all 3 Eras...
The only Era I can se. humanity haveing a Protoculture Sortage in is the Macross saga, as they only had Protoculture off the SDF-1.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Here's an idea: for purely fusion powered hovertanks, make the pilots use Mecha Combat: Hovertank at -1 to everything. That will negate the measly dodge bonus, drop the attack number bonus to just 2, etc etc. That can really devastate a player, you know. To cause even more pain, try negating mecha combat bonuses entirely and make the pilots act as though they were piloting a purely conventional vehicle with nothing special about it.

thats not Supported in the Robotech RPG at all, if you use the Incorrect blurb in the Invidinvasion/Sentinels, nohting is Diffrent about a fusion powered Battaloid/HT/Logan.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Of course it's not supported. I was suggesting a house rule to answer Taffy's "less cool" issue.

Taffy likes to use Rules and Ideas for Robotech from other Sources, heres the "Correct" in system way to deal with it.
pg 35 unrevised rifts Conversion book:
another Drawback to Nuclear conversions is that all veritech mecha lose some of their amszing mobility; Reduce the number of Melee attacks by 2, and reduce the dodge bonus by half."
by this... All "Veritechs" only... Cs Battilods arent hamppred, not are Destroids...

[The Artist Formerly]

Easy, The Humans account for such a Small % of Protoculture Use, its not a Matter to them, If humanitywas Ever Low, then why did they bother comming to Earth to get it?

The Zents are Low on a Massive-Fleet Level, is Low 50%? 40%? 10%? After Breetias coments on being "Low power" Ships under his command continue to opperate for 2 Full years, and are never scene being Decommisoned in the Series. his commnet come before the Taking of the Factory Satalite.
If 500,000 ships under Breetia command are "Low" the Energy Stored in these Ships could be Used to power Thousands of Smaller Human ships & hundreds of Thousands of Mecha.

The Masters are "Almost out" yet the sustain Combat operations against the Earth for over a year.

The Invid are not Drawn to Protoculture, they are drawn to the flower of Life.

Humanistys Forces are Tiny compared to both the Masters and the Zents. the only Force they outnumber in the Series are the Invid. What it Takes to power 1% of the Zent Fleet is more then enough to power Everything humnaity made in all 3 Eras...
The only Era I can se. humanity haveing a Protoculture Sortage in is the Macross saga, as they only had Protoculture off the SDF-1.

That's all guess work and assumption. We know that the ASC ran out at some point. I'd also guess that things were getting dicy for the REF as well. Might explain away some of their poor choices in tactics.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

You know guys, either the RPG is wrong or its right.

If its wrong, then the default is the Tv series, since that is what the RPG is supposed to be based upon.....and we know the answer to the Southern Cross protoculture supply in the series.

If its right, then you guys are being disengenuous and cherry picking things to suit your screwed up interpretations.

Either way, the Army of the Southern Cross has protoculture powered mecha. On top of that, if we somehow believe that they switched over later to fusion powered mecha, then because the rules are not given in any Robotech book, well, one must use Occam's Razor and determine that there is no appreciable difference as any inherent penalties are negated by such things as the Vision Track Firing System (Pupil Pistol), combat computers and such.

Using the rules from the Rifts Roleplaying Game is not acceptable as that is SOLELY for Rifts and not for Robotech.

[The Artist Formerly]

Occam's razor.

Occam's Razor (also Ockham's Razor or any of several other spellings), is a principle attributed to the 14th century English logician and Franciscan friar, William of Ockham that forms the basis of methodological reductionism, also called the principle of parsimony.

In its simplest form, Occam's Razor states that one should not make more assumptions than needed. When multiple explanations are available for a phenomenon, the simplest version is preferred. A charred tree on the ground could be caused by a landing alien ship or a lightning strike. According to Occam's Razor, the lightning strike is the preferred explanation as it requires the fewest assumptions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor

Now then, facts.

1)We know that the ASC had protoculture powered mecha.
2)We know they switched over to pure fusion power arangement.

Why?

What would be their motive in doing such?

[glitterboy2098]

Now then, facts.

1)We know that the ASC had protoculture powered mecha.
2)We know they switched over to pure fusion power arangement.

Why?

What would be their motive in doing such?

supply train issues.

keeping southern cross protoculture units running would require regular supply of protoculture to distant and remote area's. also, these areas would tend to be those were rengades exist which could attack and capture the supply trains.

by switching to fusion, you only need a ready source of water for hydrogen. thus reducing the number, and freqency of supply runs to distant bases.

[The Artist Formerly]

Now then, facts.

1)We know that the ASC had protoculture powered mecha.
2)We know they switched over to pure fusion power arangement.

Why?

What would be their motive in doing such?

supply train issues.

keeping southern cross protoculture units running would require regular supply of protoculture to distant and remote area's. also, these areas would tend to be those were rengades exist which could attack and capture the supply trains.

by switching to fusion, you only need a ready source of water for hydrogen. thus reducing the number, and freqency of supply runs to distant bases.

The ASC had heavy VTOL capable air craft in great numbers. Protoculture provides some sort of major benifit. Why forfit that over a problem so easily solved and why do it on such a massive scale?

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

2)We know they switched over to pure fusion power arangement.

No, that is NOT a fact, that is your assumption. Robotech Book 4: The Southern Cross is specific that the Southern Cross mecha have fusion engines that use protoculture. The blurb in Robotech Book 5: The Invid Invasion (repeated for The Sentinels RPG) says that the Southern Cross mecha are powered by protoculture or fusion turbines. There is never one mention of them switching over. That is an assumption you have made.

Since you are saying that the books are wrong, well then the weight of evidence falls AGAINST the blurb in The Invid Invasion and in fact ALL RDF and ASC mecha have fusion engines that use protoculture. I will reiterate one more time: The Rifts RPG is NOT pertinent to this discussion and therefore has no place in it. What is said in The Conversion Book 1 is IRRELEVANT.

[The Artist Formerly]

Occam's razor.

Occam's Razor (also Ockham's Razor or any of several other spellings), is a principle attributed to the 14th century English logician and Franciscan friar, William of Ockham that forms the basis of methodological reductionism, also called the principle of parsimony.

In its simplest form, Occam's Razor states that one should not make more assumptions than needed. When multiple explanations are available for a phenomenon, the simplest version is preferred. A charred tree on the ground could be caused by a landing alien ship or a lightning strike. According to Occam's Razor, the lightning strike is the preferred explanation as it requires the fewest assumptions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor

Now then, facts.

1)We know that the ASC had protoculture powered mecha.
2)We know they switched over to pure fusion power arangement.

Why?

What would be their motive in doing such?

My answer. They ASC was running low. In some way, Protoculture powered machines are better then other machines. So the use of protoculture was restricted to the elite units only. The guys defending Supream Commander Leonard's All you can eat Super Cheap Economy one ton hot buffet in Monument City, Proto-Fusion engines. The guy guarding the rank and file citizens of Mexico city, Fusion alone.

Now then, RSC Fan wondered about why aren't their any stats for impaired ASC Mecha running on Fusion alone.

My answer, the ASC is the weakest componet of the Robotech series, and definately of the RT games. Little intrest in them so a small company like Palladium isn't going to invest in writing much on a sub setting that most people use to suppliment the other three sub-settings.

IIRC, and we'd need to ask, Wayne or Kevin himself was planning on addressing this in one of the scrubbed RT source books.

Col. Wolfe asked about why the ASC book says one thing and II/Sentenals says another.

My answer, Palladium, in typical palladium fashion, never got around to making the addendum to the ASC book. It never was that good a seller, though I do understand it has recently gained in popularity in comparison to the Macross componet and Invid Invasion componet.

[The Artist Formerly]

No, that is NOT a fact, that is your assumption. Robotech Book 4: The Southern Cross is specific that the Southern Cross mecha have fusion engines that use protoculture. The blurb in Robotech Book 5: The Invid Invasion (repeated for The Sentinels RPG) says that the Southern Cross mecha are powered by protoculture or fusion turbines. There is never one mention of them switching over. That is an assumption you have made.

Well sure, forward progression. At the beginning of the second Robotech War, all ASC machines coming off the line were Protoculture powered.

Since you are saying that the books are wrong,

No I'm not. Reread it if you don't belive me.

well then the weight of evidence falls AGAINST the blurb in The Invid Invasion and in fact ALL RDF and ASC mecha have fusion engines that use protoculture. I will reiterate one more time: The Rifts RPG is NOT pertinent to this discussion and therefore has no place in it. What is said in The Conversion Book 1 is IRRELEVANT.

I have no idea where you're reaching for in CB#1, beyond the bit about Rifts guys being able to make some modifications including going to fusion engines.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Occam's razor.

Occam's Razor (also Ockham's Razor or any of several other spellings), is a principle attributed to the 14th century English logician and Franciscan friar, William of Ockham that forms the basis of methodological reductionism, also called the principle of parsimony.

In its simplest form, Occam's Razor states that one should not make more assumptions than needed. When multiple explanations are available for a phenomenon, the simplest version is preferred. A charred tree on the ground could be caused by a landing alien ship or a lightning strike. According to Occam's Razor, the lightning strike is the preferred explanation as it requires the fewest assumptions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor

Now then, facts.

1)We know that the ASC had protoculture powered mecha.
2)We know they switched over to pure fusion power arangement.

Why?

What would be their motive in doing such?

Taffy, better re-read the Wikipedia entry... it Mentions Robotech.

1) Correct, suppoetrd 100% by the Book
2) No where dose it mention the ASC "Swtched". the Invid Invasion & Sentinels states that All Battaloids and 50% of ASC Veritechs run on Pure Fusion.

as for Why? they didnt. One of the Books is Wrong. the Weight of Support says ACS Battaloids are Indead Fusion powered, but Still use Protoculture as a Fuel, just Like all Mecha before them. The only Human Mecha we know run off Pure PC is the REf "Canister" Mecha like the Alpha and Cyclones. the only Mecha know to be Pure Fusion are EBSIS designs, but it Clearly says they have to be built Extramly Large to accomidate the non-PC engines.

Their Motive "IF" a Switch happened? To Fight the Incomming invid, the ASC had 4-years of tiem to prepare for the Enemy they were warned about by Musica. Since the Master built Invid-Fighters, they have some Idea about the Invid, and the ASC was Advised by tirolians who became Earth-loyal.

Zerebus is begining to See How the RPG has to be interpeted to be True to all Printed matters within the RPG's Frame of "Canon". ". They were trying to do something about that Invid Sensor Nebula and/or prepare for the Invid's arrival by stealthing a bunch of their mecha, as directed by surviving Tyrolians.

[Novastar]

Actually, it was my understanding that the protoculture was the fuel for a fusion reaction of the Veritechs and such, much like plutonium in modern day reactors.

Protoculture generates a more powerful reaction (and hence, power) and has no wasteful by-products. That's why humans grabbed at it as a power source.

[Colonel Wolfe]

My answer. They ASC was running low. In some way, Protoculture powered machines are better then other machines. So the use of protoculture was restricted to the elite units only. The guys defending Supream Commander Leonard's All you can eat Super Cheap Economy one ton hot buffet in Monument City, Proto-Fusion engines. The guy guarding the rank and file citizens of Mexico city, Fusion alone.

Sorry, not According to the southren Cross book as Printed.

Now then, RSC Fan wondered about why aren't their any stats for impaired ASC Mecha running on Fusion alone.

Because the Switch to Fusion impared the Mecha not one bit, unless your wanting to Add Infomration form Rifts:CB1.

My answer, the ASC is the weakest componet of the Robotech series, and definately of the RT games. Little intrest in them so a small company like Palladium isn't going to invest in writing much on a sub setting that most people use to suppliment the other three sub-settings

Are you Trying to Bait RSCF? as for ti being the "weakest" componet of the Show, It confirms you have Never Seen the Show, the Macross Era is the Weakest point of the Show, as Earth had Less then 200 Ships, the SDF-1 is the only Ship in the Earth forces that can Compare to a Tri-star... Compared at least 350 UEF Ships pushed against the Masters.

IIRC, and we'd need to ask, Wayne or Kevin himself was planning on addressing this in one of the scrubbed RT source books.

a Unprinted book means nothing, it is less then nothing. What could-of, would-of, should-of Means nothing, the Southren Cross books as Printed are 100% correct.

Col. Wolfe asked about why the ASC book says one thing and II/Sentenals says another.

My answer, Palladium, in typical palladium fashion, never got around to making the addendum to the ASC book. It never was that good a seller, though I do understand it has recently gained in popularity in comparison to the Macross componet and Invid Invasion componet.

typical of Palladium, but guess what, a Non-existant Errata & Rules Correction means nothing. The Books as Printed are Correct. if your saying they aren't.... Then the 100 other places it is Blantly Wrong can also be Ignored in discussions on this forums. We As RPG fans only have one point of Comonality, the RPG books as Printed, what ever Errata you have added only Makes to Cloud the Feild and Cause Confusion... as you told me Taffy:

please keep the nature of your discussions to Palladium books published materials. It's the common point of reference that everyone on this board has. If you want to discuss and debate the attributes of machines that didn't make it into Palladium books or ended up on the cutting room floor of the anime, start a new thread or take it to another board. There is no way I'm going to try and debate machines that have no point of reference to those here at the Palladium books website.

[Lt. Holmes]

Here's an idea: for purely fusion powered hovertanks, make the pilots use Mecha Combat: Hovertank at -1 to everything. That will negate the measly dodge bonus, drop the attack number bonus to just 2, etc etc. That can really devastate a player, you know. To cause even more pain, try negating mecha combat bonuses entirely and make the pilots act as though they were piloting a purely conventional vehicle with nothing special about it.

That makes sense, since the RPG makes no bones about how it's the Protoculture powersupply that gives the mecha their incredible agility and manouverability. Heck, I'd even drop the top speed of that mecha down a few MPH, just to emphasize that fact.


I'd have the Destroids as PC-powered, and leave the ASC battloids as fusion-powered? Why, you ask? Good question, go to the head of the class! Actually, it's because the Destroids mount heavier armour, heavier weapons, heavier... everything, thus needing the Protoculture energy to offset that disadvantage. The Battloids, by contrast, are light and mobile enough so that they can get away with only fusion power.

Another idea is that getting enough usable energy out of a simple fusion reactor could be a mid-to-late-2020s development that the RDF/REF just didn't have access to. Same reason why the EBSIS had fusion-powered mecha. Remember, the ASC made leaps in technology that the REF didn't.[/quote]

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

That makes sense, since the RPG makes no bones about how it's the Protoculture powersupply that gives the mecha their incredible agility and manouverability. Heck, I'd even drop the top speed of that mecha down a few MPH, just to emphasize that fact.

You know, I really wonder if you people even have read the books. Its NOT protoculture that creates the man-machine mind, its Robotechnology.
Read and be enlightened:

One of the truly unique aspects of Robotechnology is that man and machine share a symbiotic relationship, linking pilot with mecha. It is a bond that provides the mechas immediate response and commands/controls, mobility, and almost human agility. Rather than the pilot operating a mere machine, a tool, both complement and supplement each others abilities with astonishing ease. It is the same aspect that allows for smooth, technologically engineered, transformations of the Veritech.

Robotech RPG Book 1: Macross, Page 44, second column, second paragraph.

Another idea is that getting enough usable energy out of a simple fusion reactor could be a mid-to-late-2020s development that the RDF/REF just didn't have access to.

Sorry, thats totally disproven by the RPG. Both Book 1 and Book 4 clearly state that each of the RDF/ASC mecha have a fusion turbine/reactor that uses protoculture.

Same reason why the EBSIS had fusion-powered mecha.

The EBSIS Battloids had non-protoculture based fusion engines, which is why the mecha were over 30 ft tall.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

My answer, the ASC is the weakest componet of the Robotech series, and definately of the RT games. Little intrest in them so a small company like Palladium isn't going to invest in writing much on a sub setting that most people use to suppliment the other three sub-settings.

All of which adds up to one conclusion: your arguments are vapour. I dont give a damn about your opinion that Southern Cross is the weakest, because, well, its a truly uninformed opinion.

It never was that good a seller, though I do understand it has recently gained in popularity in comparison to the Macross componet and Invid Invasion componet.

Oh really? Please, since you have so much inside information, how many copies of Book 4 were sold compared to the others. I have yet to read of one statistic that supports your conclusion.

[The Artist Formerly]

All of which adds up to one conclusion: your arguments are vapour. I dont give a damn about your opinion that Southern Cross is the weakest, because, well, its a truly uninformed opinion.

And I don't care about your opinion at all. So what?

Oh really? Please, since you have so much inside information, how many copies of Book 4 were sold compared to the others. I have yet to read of one statistic that supports your conclusion.

You mean, aside from Kevin's statements and the fact that unlike the other three settings, the ASC book has no supporting materials. You mean aside from the publisher stating such and the total lack of resouces or expansion materials? Palladium was so hard up for materials they published Lancer's Rockers, but felt they couldn't get a resouce book for the Robotech Masters off the ground. Yeah I guess their isn't much to back that idea at all. My bad.

[Comrade Corsarius]

Children, settle. This looks like it's getting a bit out of hand.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

You mean, aside from Kevin's statements and the fact that unlike the other three settings, the ASC book has no supporting materials.

Please, Taffy, enlighten me to as Kevin's words. Come on, I want a quote, otherwise you are talking out your backside.

You mean aside from the publisher stating such and the total lack of resouces or expansion materials?

Taffy, better get some ketchup, cause Im about to feed you your spleen.

Lets see...books that have or rely on Southern Cross: Robotech Adventures: Ghost Ship, Robotech Adventures: Zentraedi Breakout, Robotech RPG Book 6: Return of the Masters AND Return of the Masters Second Edition, Robotech RPG Book 7: New World Order and finally Robotech RPG Book 8: Strike Force.

[The Artist Formerly]

Please, Taffy, enlighten me to as Kevin's words. Come on, I want a quote, otherwise you are talking out your backside.

Check the old "we're dropping the licence" notification.

Taffy, better get some ketchup, cause Im about to feed you your spleen.

Lets see...books that have or rely on Southern Cross: Robotech Adventures: Ghost Ship, Robotech Adventures: Zentraedi Breakout, Robotech RPG Book 6: Return of the Masters AND Return of the Masters Second Edition, Robotech RPG Book 7: New World Order and finally Robotech RPG Book 8: Strike Force.

Those are Macross or Invid Invasion books with a odd or end tossed in for the odd ASC player. The closest one gets there is the cover from break out. Palladium treated the Southern Cross the same way Harmony gold did, filler between the good stuff.

Funny, that didn't taste like spleen...

[Colonel Wolfe]

All of which adds up to one conclusion: your arguments are vapour. I dont give a damn about your opinion that Southern Cross is the weakest, because, well, its a truly uninformed opinion.

And I don't care about your opinion at all. So what?

Taffy, Stop Flame Baiting People, its getting old.

Oh really? Please, since you have so much inside information, how many copies of Book 4 were sold compared to the others. I have yet to read of one statistic that supports your conclusion.

You mean, aside from Kevin's statements and the fact that unlike the other three settings, the ASC book has no supporting materials. You mean aside from the publisher stating such and the total lack of resouces or expansion materials? Palladium was so hard up for materials they published Lancer's Rockers, but felt they couldn't get a resouce book for the Robotech Masters off the ground. Yeah I guess their isn't much to back that idea at all. My bad.

Wait.... Kevin Never printed in any Robotech Books that the ASC was a Bad Seller... and Several books have Additional ASc Materials. A Lack of Expansion Materials??? The ASC gets the Super Loagn and the Assult Battaliod.... Compared to Mospeda/Sentinels Super Alpha & Zent Striker batt... While Macross get about 10 new Designs.... as Far as Story? ASC is the Middle Child, and has little room for Expansion. it Detaisl the Most important event in Robotech, and the reason the Invid come to Earth...

See Taffy, you are once Again Straying far away fomr the RPG as Printed.

so, please keep the nature of your discussions to Palladium books materials as published . It's the common point of reference that everyone on this board has. If you want to discuss and debate the attributes ofyou Personal Modifications to the system/setting that are not printed in Palladium books or Ideas that ended up on the cutting room floor, start a new thread or take it to another board. There is no way I'm going to try and debate Machines & Ideas that have no point of reference to those here at the Palladium books website.

[Novastar]

Originally posted by Col. Wolfe

Taffy, Stop Flame Baiting People, its getting old.

Actually, I'd say Rapid was the one "Flaming".
Saying I disagree with your conclusions is one thing; telling someone their opinion doesn't matter is another. (Yes, Taffy is guilty of that following Rapid's post too)

as Far as Story? ASC is the Middle Child, and has little room for Expansion. it Detaisl the Most important event in Robotech...

I have to take issue with that. The most important event in Robotech is the Visitor crash-landing on Earth. Without that landmark event, none of the following stories would take place.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Originally posted by Col. Wolfe

Taffy, Stop Flame Baiting People, its getting old.

Actually, I'd say Rapid was the one "Flaming".
Saying I disagree with your conclusions is one thing; telling someone their opinion doesn't matter is another. (Yes, Taffy is guilty of that following Rapid's post too)

hmmm, Flame Baiting....
as per the Rules of the Board:
"Egging someone on to provoke them into lashing back with a flame post is called flame-baiting, and is also not welcomed."

as Far as Story? ASC is the Middle Child, and has little room for Expansion. it Detaisl the Most important event in Robotech...

I have to take issue with that. The most important event in Robotech is the Visitor crash-landing on Earth. Without that landmark event, none of the following stories would take place.

the Crash of A.S.S.-1 is the Event that brings humanity in to the Story, but is immportant for all events, but the Master Comming to Earth, and their Destruction set up for the Invid to come to Earth, w/o them the RPG has no way to have the Invid Invade.

[The Artist Formerly]

Taffy, Stop Flame Baiting People, its getting old.

Well as I wasn't I guess I don't have a problem continuing not to do so. Good thing we worked that out.

Wait.... Kevin Never printed in any Robotech Books that the ASC was a Bad Seller...

I think you left a word out...?

[Colonel Wolfe]

Taffy, Stop Flame Baiting People, its getting old.

Well as I wasn't I guess I don't have a problem continuing not to do so. Good thing we worked that out.

sure... go on believing that.

Wait.... Kevin Never printed in any Robotech Books that the ASC was a Bad Seller...

I think you left a word out...?

Being a Troll? or just trying to Bait me too?
no, Pretty sure the Sentence is:
Kevin (the Author) Never Printed in any Robotech books that the ASC was a Bad Seller.
Pretty sure its gott the Who Subject-verb thing in it....
After Looking in the Robotech RPG books, I've not been able to Find any Support in the Books that lends its support to your Comment "The Southren Cross Book" was a Bad Seller. Book and Page # please, if you have one.

you are the one who Hold the RPG as Printed to be Perfect in all Regards, and you have told me that any discussion that goes beyond the RPG as Printed should not be used on this Board. now you want to Quote an Interview fomr 1998-99 as Canonical RPG info? or Quote a rumor from a never Printed Source book?

please keep the nature of your discussions to Palladium books published materials. It's the common point of reference that everyone on this board has. If you want to discuss and debate the attributes of machines that didn't make it into Palladium books or ended up on the cutting room floor of the anime, start a new thread or take it to another board. There is no way I'm going to try and debate machines that have no point of reference to those here at the Palladium books website.

That is, if it doesn't exist in Palladium print, it doesn't exist.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Check the old "we're dropping the licence" notification.

Please, enlighten me. Refresh my memory and give the link quoting exactly where Kevin says the Southern Cross book was selling poorly.

Those are Macross or Invid Invasion books with a odd or end tossed in for the odd ASC player.

Wrong answer. A sourcebook means it contains material pertinent to the original. That means that the information on the Southern Cross in those books mentioned makes it a sourcebook.

Funny, that didn't taste like spleen...

Obviously your taste buds are messed up cause I served you your spleen on a platter.

[Jefffar]

ENOUGH

Locked.

If y'all don't stop the petty bickering I'm goin' ta kick a few bums.