Couple of Questions

[Tinker Dragoon]

Kobu-Jutsu (Weapon kata p123) -- I've read it and understand it...is this just a kata that enables the martial artist to have a weapon ready just in case he needs it ? I assume it's only good for an Ancient Melee weapon, right ? (Pistol Kata )

It's a kata that allows you to combine the bonuses and maneuevers from a particular Weapon Proficiency with the martial art form that the kata was acquired with. It also doesn't follow the usual time and attack restrictions of other Special Kata, making it essentially just an improved W.P. skill.

As the description does not specify ancient or modern weapons, it is perfectly plausible to have a Weapon Kata in W.P. Pistol.

Push Open Hand -- from Tai-Chi Ch'uan (p104-105). How violent is this move ? The description explains "the master appears to move in slow-motion..." (etc) should all the moves follow this logic ? Should I just consider a successful POH to be the execution of perfect leverage ? (I'm thinking this might be a good form to utilize in public...)

...insights are greatly appreciated.

I would assume so. You might still want to avoid using it in crowded public spaces, because the user's naturally high Chi score will tend to fling the opponent long distances.

[Svartalf]

Kobu-Jutsu (Weapon kata p123) -- I've read it and understand it...is this just a kata that enables the martial artist to have a weapon ready just in case he needs it ? I assume it's only good for an Ancient Melee weapon, right ? (Pistol Kata )

It's a kata that allows you to combine the bonuses and maneuevers from a particular Weapon Proficiency with the martial art form that the kata was acquired with. It also doesn't follow the usual time and attack restrictions of other Special Kata, making it essentially just an improved W.P. skill.

As the description does not specify ancient or modern weapons, it is perfectly plausible to have a Weapon Kata in W.P. Pistol.

plausible ... to a certain extent only ... Remember that by the books, the ONLY martial arts school that advocates (and thus teaches) use of firearmss is Triad Assassin. Other schools regard guns as non traditional, and thus to be avoided, so would not teach weapon kata for such an implement. Also, there is the issue of usefulness... most martial arts focus on hand to hand fighting, so, for such forms, pistol kata is of very limited usefulness as it would be essentially limited to pistol whipping. Only schools that actively taught the use of ranged weapons, such as ninjutsu or moo gi gong would have any interest in combining firearms with their traditional skills... If masters decided to break from tradition in the first place and worked at the integration in the first place... a Ninja could very well regard guns as the tool of untrained, common amateurs and stick to shuriken out of pride and prejudice.


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[Tinker Dragoon]

plausible ... to a certain extent only ... Remember that by the books, the ONLY martial arts school that advocates (and thus teaches) use of firearmss is Triad Assassin. Other schools regard guns as non traditional, and thus to be avoided, so would not teach weapon kata for such an implement. Also, there is the issue of usefulness... most martial arts focus on hand to hand fighting, so, for such forms, pistol kata is of very limited usefulness as it would be essentially limited to pistol whipping. Only schools that actively taught the use of ranged weapons, such as ninjutsu or moo gi gong would have any interest in combining firearms with their traditional skills... If masters decided to break from tradition in the first place and worked at the integration in the first place... a Ninja could very well regard guns as the tool of untrained, common amateurs and stick to shuriken out of pride and prejudice.

Those are nice justifications for an individual GM disallowing it, but there is no basis for it in the rules, only Triad Assassin's description (i.e. flavor text) that asserts that it is the only martial art in the world to have such a focus.

One should also note that modern weapons aren't just 20th and 21st century firearms. The black powder weapons and explosives of yore (ninja hand grenades anyone?) also fall into this category of Weapon Proficiencies.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

knockdown means they lose an attack. just like getting flipped/thrown, tackled, or leg tripped.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Well, even if the school dosn't teach or advocate the use of firearms. . . nothing would stop a character for developing it on his own.

after all, the game is your supposed to basically be a black belt at level one and get better.

I wouldn't stop a PC from taking a gun kata.

now. . . weather or not his school will reject him from now on is a different story. . .

[Mantisking]

Originally posted by Gadrin.
Kobu-Jutsu (Weapon kata p123) -- I've read it and understand it...is this just a kata that enables the martial artist to have a weapon ready just in case he needs it ? I assume it's only good for an Ancient Melee weapon, right ? (Pistol Kata )

Nope. You can use it for Modern Weapons. In fact, I've designed a style or two with Pistol Kata.

Originally posted by Gadrin.
Push Open Hand -- from Tai-Chi Ch'uan (p104-105). How violent is this move ? The description explains "the master appears to move in slow-motion..." (etc) should all the moves follow this logic ?

Weeeelll, EW's version of Tai Chi Ch'uan tends more towards the less martial Yang style of TCC. So you could go with the "slow motion" effect.

Originally posted by Gadrin.
(I'm thinking this might be a good form to utilize in public...)

It's also a good technique to use on cliffs and roof-tops.

Originally posted by Tinker Dragoon.
I would assume so. You might still want to avoid using it in crowded public spaces, because the user's naturally high Chi score will tend to fling the opponent long distances.

That might be one of the better times to use it, especially if you are being chased.

Originally posted by Svartalf.
plausible ... to a certain extent only ... Remember that by the books, the ONLY martial arts school that advocates (and thus teaches) use of firearmss is Triad Assassin. Other schools regard guns as non traditional, and thus to be avoided, so would not teach weapon kata for such an implement. Also, there is the issue of usefulness... most martial arts focus on hand to hand fighting, so, for such forms, pistol kata is of very limited usefulness as it would be essentially limited to pistol whipping. Only schools that actively taught the use of ranged weapons, such as ninjutsu or moo gi gong would have any interest in combining firearms with their traditional skills.

Here's a quote from "Forever Drug" by Steve Perry in response to that answer.

"A martial artist who can't use modern weapons is a cripple. Spinning kicks and fancy postures are best reserved for the entcom vids."

Originally posted by Tyciol.
Even though a kata allows you to combine your WP bonuses with the form, modern weapons wouldn't combine because of the modern weapons rule that only the specific WP bonuses count for striking.

Ah, that rule. See that window over there? {* Turns and tosses the rule out the window. *} Problem solved.

[Svartalf]

plausible ... to a certain extent only ... Remember that by the books, the ONLY martial arts school that advocates (and thus teaches) use of firearmss is Triad Assassin. Other schools regard guns as non traditional, and thus to be avoided, so would not teach weapon kata for such an implement.

Those are nice justifications for an individual GM disallowing it, but there is no basis for it in the rules, only Triad Assassin's description (i.e. flavor text) that asserts that it is the only martial art in the world to have such a focus.

One should also note that modern weapons aren't just 20th and 21st century firearms. The black powder weapons and explosives of yore (ninja hand grenades anyone?) also fall into this category of Weapon Proficiencies.

Tinker, take a good look through the books and especially at MC's description of Triad assassin. It's clearly stated there that this form is the ONLY one that teaches modern weapons, and that on top of there being no indication at all anywhere else that any martial arts teach any form of modern weapon.

and yeah, it's precisely because I remember the real world ninja adopting black powder before the rest of Japan that I mentioned Ninjutsu as one form that *might* be interesting in integrating modern weapons.

However, since there is no martial arts that actually focuses on ranged weapons (except moo gi gong, but they focus on throwing random objects, not on shooting bows or anything like that) I strongly doubt that ANY form would ever allow gun kata.

[Svartalf]

Well, even if the school dosn't teach or advocate the use of firearms. . . nothing would stop a character for developing it on his own.

after all, the game is your supposed to basically be a black belt at level one and get better.

I wouldn't stop a PC from taking a gun kata.

now. . . weather or not his school will reject him from now on is a different story. . .

Possible ... just takes a higher level characters using one of his level advancement slots ... when he gets one.

[Tinker Dragoon]

Tinker, take a good look through the books and especially at MC's description of Triad assassin. It's clearly stated there that this form is the ONLY one that teaches modern weapons, and that on top of there being no indication at all anywhere else that any martial arts teach any form of modern weapon.

You're still quoting flavor text, not rules.

[Mantisking]

Originally posted by me.
In fact, I've designed a style or two with Pistol Kata.

Originally posted by gadrin.
are they fit for public consumption ? post 'em!

Here.

[Tinker Dragoon]

Wait, wasn't there a Mongolian moslem (or something) martial art that had WP Rifle as one of its included skills? It may even be in the main book.

That was Ch'a Ch'uan, which is in Ninjas & Superspies. It only had the W.P. though, not a Weapon Kata.

[Svartalf]

Tinker, take a good look through the books and especially at MC's description of Triad assassin. It's clearly stated there that this form is the ONLY one that teaches modern weapons, and that on top of there being no indication at all anywhere else that any martial arts teach any form of modern weapon.

You're still quoting flavor text, not rules.

Begging pardon Tinker ... but how do you separate "mere flavor text" that can be disregarded with no thinking back on it, from "real rules" that are modified only by house ruling?

[Svartalf]

Wait, wasn't there a Mongolian moslem (or something) martial art that had WP Rifle as one of its included skills? It may even be in the main book.

Yep... Ch'a Ch'uan does teach WP rifle... but only the WP, not kata enabling the combination of MA bonuses with WP bonuses.