On page 37 of the core rule book, it states, "If the damage inflicted depletes the SDC of the head, the skull is fractured and the brain is Vulnerable to additional attack. As before, only a natural D20 roll of 17-20 strikes. If an attack inflicts damage equivalent to the zombie's full hit points (even if it has already suffered previous hit point damage), the skull shatters and the brains are destroyed!".
For the life of me I can't understand what it means in the bold text. If you do full hit point damage to the head after SDC is depleted, it's going to die anyway. Why does it mention the previous damage? It doesn't make any sense.
Hit point damage clarification.
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Re: Hit point damage clarification.
Epically wrote:On page 37 of the core rule book, it states, "If the damage inflicted depletes the SDC of the head, the skull is fractured and the brain is Vulnerable to additional attack. As before, only a natural D20 roll of 17-20 strikes. If an attack inflicts damage equivalent to the zombie's full hit points (even if it has already suffered previous hit point damage), the skull shatters and the brains are destroyed!".
For the life of me I can't understand what it means in the bold text. If you do full hit point damage to the head after SDC is depleted, it's going to die anyway. Why does it mention the previous damage? It doesn't make any sense.
As much as I like the setting, sometimes the rules can be a bit wonky. Let's say you've been fighting the zombie for a while and all its main body SDC is gone and half its HP. You then get tired of the fight and go for a head kill. You whack it a few times to destroy the location SDC of the head (~20 SDC). In this particular instance, the damage to the head has to deplete the full HP of the zombie... again. This is where it gets weird compared to other settings. The rules treat the head as totally separate from the rest of the body from a HP perspective, since the source of the zombieness rests in the brains and as long as the brains remains undamaged, the monster will keep rising. So the brains have the same amount of HP as the main body. And damage to main body HP does not affect the HP of the head.
My games typically have experienced zombie fighters, so if the main body can be taken down more quickly, it's a small thing to smash the brains when immobile. Or go for a decap instant kill. That said, I would say a reasonable GM might also prorate the amount of HP a fractured skull has, say 50% to keep in line with the SDC ratio of head to main body. But that all comes down to how much effort you want it to be to kill your zombies.
Re: Hit point damage clarification.
Grazzik wrote:The rules treat the head as totally separate from the rest of the body from a HP perspective, since the source of the zombieness rests in the brains and as long as the brains remains undamaged, the monster will keep rising. So the brains have the same amount of HP as the main body. And damage to main body HP does not affect the HP of the head.
Can I ask where it says this exactly? I can't find it.
Re: Hit point damage clarification.
If you are looking for a single sentence in the book, you won't find it.
pg 37, to get to HP, deplete SDC of main body OR head... this sets up the two objects to which damage can be inflicted to HP
pg 36, after reducing the main body SDC, reducing HP to zero or lower causes zombie to go inert, not die... this sets a terminal condition for the main body until SDC/HP regenerate
pg 37, reduce "full HP" (a phrase repeated, so it can't simply be dismissed as an error in editing) to zero with damage to head and zombie dies... this sets up the terminal condition for the head
pg 36, for extremities, once SDC is reduced to zero, the extremity is destroyed/falls off, no HP damage required
pg 37, even for neck no HP damage required, but it triggers the main body terminal condition until such time as the head is reattached and regeneration commences
pg 37, for skull/brains "full HP" (not "remainder of HP") required to be inflicted to head even if HP damage already previously suffered... this is the clincher that you have to track main body HP and head HP separately
There's no explained logic behind why this is, my games don't use this mechanic because it makes no sense why "full HP" has to be inflicted to get to brains. So you do what you need to do...
pg 37, to get to HP, deplete SDC of main body OR head... this sets up the two objects to which damage can be inflicted to HP
pg 36, after reducing the main body SDC, reducing HP to zero or lower causes zombie to go inert, not die... this sets a terminal condition for the main body until SDC/HP regenerate
pg 37, reduce "full HP" (a phrase repeated, so it can't simply be dismissed as an error in editing) to zero with damage to head and zombie dies... this sets up the terminal condition for the head
pg 36, for extremities, once SDC is reduced to zero, the extremity is destroyed/falls off, no HP damage required
pg 37, even for neck no HP damage required, but it triggers the main body terminal condition until such time as the head is reattached and regeneration commences
pg 37, for skull/brains "full HP" (not "remainder of HP") required to be inflicted to head even if HP damage already previously suffered... this is the clincher that you have to track main body HP and head HP separately
There's no explained logic behind why this is, my games don't use this mechanic because it makes no sense why "full HP" has to be inflicted to get to brains. So you do what you need to do...
Re: Hit point damage clarification.
I take it to mean that if you inflict the amount of the max HP in a single hit, the amount of SDC the head had remaining doesn't matter, it shatters.
This also bypasses stuff like putting the zombie into a coma via not going far enough into negative HP
This also bypasses stuff like putting the zombie into a coma via not going far enough into negative HP
Re: Hit point damage clarification.
No, you still need to reduce head SDC to zero, then inflict HP damage.Plane wrote: Mon May 26, 2025 2:59 am I take it to mean that if you inflict the amount of the max HP in a single hit, the amount of SDC the head had remaining doesn't matter, it shatters.
Except, instant kills, which require 3x SDC and assumes the excess sufficiently damages the brain HP, for some reason. I ignore this. If you can do SDC and HP damage in one blow, that's good enough for me.
As far as I can tell from what is written. The whole point is to do a head injury sufficient to kill the zombie by damaging brains. To require more is too much for good gameplay. So if coma/negative HP rules apply, I ignore them.Plane wrote: Mon May 26, 2025 2:59 am This also bypasses stuff like putting the zombie into a coma via not going far enough into negative HP
Bottom line - I don't use DR zombie rules as it is overly engineered, inconsistent with megaversal play. Was just pointing out RAW. Play as you wish.
Re: Hit point damage clarification.
I was trying to go on memory so I have the source material in front of me now...
Ah okay so pg 37 defines a "skull fractured" state where head SDC is depleted - I understand now that the 'damage equivalent to the zombie's full' rule does seem to be implied to only apply in a fractured situation based on the placement within the paragraph.
Looking at the ranges we see from the basic Sloucher on 39, their head SDC ranges from 16 to 26 so triple that would normally require 48 to 78 damage...
The 'full hit points' situation OTOH is just the PE attribute, which is between 16 and 21 damage - much easier to achieve.
It's unclear to me if you can actually target HP for depletion after a skull fracture, or if it only unlocks the "full HP to shatter the pre-fractured skull" situation.
Pg 39 after all says "all main body SDC must be depleted first before hit points can be affected"
I think what stands out about the whole "triple SDC" thing is it seems pointless:
Even in the case of the highest HP (21) and the lowest skull SDC (16) an attack that does 37 damage will be enough to deplete all the SDC (creating a fractured state) and then deplete all of the HP with the remaining damage.
That happens longer bore the 48 damage it needs to reach the "triple SDC" state, making the triple rule essentially pointless since there does not seem to be a situation it covers that isn't already covered by the "100% of HP" rule.
The only way I can see it being useful is if the same attack can't do a fracture and HP-deplete at the same time - ie a ban on carryovers so you need to do at least two attacks.
In that case the 3xSDC might be the only way to do one-hit-kill while doing "100% of SDC then 100% of HP" is how you get a one-two kill on a zombie.
Either way - the most reliable way to take out zombies given headshots only work 20% of the time (17-20 is 4/20) is probably going to remain just immobilizing them either hitting center of mass (deplete SDC and HP so they become dormant for an hour) and then spamming for that obscure 17-20 naturals when you're in a safe position where attacking doesn't expose you to danger.
Even then it makes sense to go for neck first since you can get an outcome faster - all you need to do is deplete the neck SDC and at that point you're preventing HP+SDC regeneration per pg 38. You can then just take the head with you and finish destroying it in a more convenient location. Just get a big melee weapon and deplete the SDC and then once fractured you can bruteforce it with a weapon over until you hit that notorious natural 20 whose x3 damage means you only have to roll 7 damage (x3=21) to splatter the brains.
Pg 114's blunt weapons are clearly the key to success here - the 2D6 averaging 7 of a crowbar should usually get the job done, but to have adequate damage coincide with a natural 20 it's better to use as big as possible. Pg 115 has options - sledgehammers might be more easily found but the idea you need PS 20 to use them is kinda ridiculous. The Hercules Club only requires PS18 which is a bit more accessible. The base 3D6+3 is going to get another +3 from your PS bonus, meaning you're doing a minimum of 9 damage which guarantees the 7 you need for tripling on a natural 20 to 21. It's even possible on a non-20 to toll 21+ on 3D6+6 (it goes up to 24) meaning your 17-19 rolls could occasionally cause a splatter too. These do require 2 melee actions per attempt though so I don't know if you'd be better off firing twice as many attacks fishing nat 20s with a lower-damage weapon...
For people with PS of 17 and below it looks like the ideal choice among blunt weapons would be the iron staff with 2D6+2 which averages 9 damage. Large battle axes if you can find them do 3D6 (avg 10.5) and list no PS requirement or need to do 2 melee attacks, so chopping through a skull would be even more reliable. The Flamberge on 116 does 3D8 which is even better but the 66% chance of getting stuck would slow it down so I don't think it's worth it.
Chainsaw also do 3D6 like a battle axe but they're noisy and cost gas, battle axe remains superior.
Even though head/neck shots are essentially 'free' for some reason (the top-right of 37 says 15s and 16s just hit the main body) they don't seem recommended since depleting that SDC isn't as useful as depleting main body SDC since mainbody-depletion can actually access hit points in a more reliable way for immobilizing them.
Strangely it seems impossible to target the head/neck and just outright MISS, I find it silly you always get a free shot on the main body when it's a near-miss. Why exactly would a missed slash or stab always go downward into the main body? Sometimes you go too high, or too far left or right...
Ah okay so pg 37 defines a "skull fractured" state where head SDC is depleted - I understand now that the 'damage equivalent to the zombie's full' rule does seem to be implied to only apply in a fractured situation based on the placement within the paragraph.
Looking at the ranges we see from the basic Sloucher on 39, their head SDC ranges from 16 to 26 so triple that would normally require 48 to 78 damage...
The 'full hit points' situation OTOH is just the PE attribute, which is between 16 and 21 damage - much easier to achieve.
It's unclear to me if you can actually target HP for depletion after a skull fracture, or if it only unlocks the "full HP to shatter the pre-fractured skull" situation.
Pg 39 after all says "all main body SDC must be depleted first before hit points can be affected"
I think what stands out about the whole "triple SDC" thing is it seems pointless:
Even in the case of the highest HP (21) and the lowest skull SDC (16) an attack that does 37 damage will be enough to deplete all the SDC (creating a fractured state) and then deplete all of the HP with the remaining damage.
That happens longer bore the 48 damage it needs to reach the "triple SDC" state, making the triple rule essentially pointless since there does not seem to be a situation it covers that isn't already covered by the "100% of HP" rule.
The only way I can see it being useful is if the same attack can't do a fracture and HP-deplete at the same time - ie a ban on carryovers so you need to do at least two attacks.
In that case the 3xSDC might be the only way to do one-hit-kill while doing "100% of SDC then 100% of HP" is how you get a one-two kill on a zombie.
Either way - the most reliable way to take out zombies given headshots only work 20% of the time (17-20 is 4/20) is probably going to remain just immobilizing them either hitting center of mass (deplete SDC and HP so they become dormant for an hour) and then spamming for that obscure 17-20 naturals when you're in a safe position where attacking doesn't expose you to danger.
Even then it makes sense to go for neck first since you can get an outcome faster - all you need to do is deplete the neck SDC and at that point you're preventing HP+SDC regeneration per pg 38. You can then just take the head with you and finish destroying it in a more convenient location. Just get a big melee weapon and deplete the SDC and then once fractured you can bruteforce it with a weapon over until you hit that notorious natural 20 whose x3 damage means you only have to roll 7 damage (x3=21) to splatter the brains.
Pg 114's blunt weapons are clearly the key to success here - the 2D6 averaging 7 of a crowbar should usually get the job done, but to have adequate damage coincide with a natural 20 it's better to use as big as possible. Pg 115 has options - sledgehammers might be more easily found but the idea you need PS 20 to use them is kinda ridiculous. The Hercules Club only requires PS18 which is a bit more accessible. The base 3D6+3 is going to get another +3 from your PS bonus, meaning you're doing a minimum of 9 damage which guarantees the 7 you need for tripling on a natural 20 to 21. It's even possible on a non-20 to toll 21+ on 3D6+6 (it goes up to 24) meaning your 17-19 rolls could occasionally cause a splatter too. These do require 2 melee actions per attempt though so I don't know if you'd be better off firing twice as many attacks fishing nat 20s with a lower-damage weapon...
For people with PS of 17 and below it looks like the ideal choice among blunt weapons would be the iron staff with 2D6+2 which averages 9 damage. Large battle axes if you can find them do 3D6 (avg 10.5) and list no PS requirement or need to do 2 melee attacks, so chopping through a skull would be even more reliable. The Flamberge on 116 does 3D8 which is even better but the 66% chance of getting stuck would slow it down so I don't think it's worth it.
Chainsaw also do 3D6 like a battle axe but they're noisy and cost gas, battle axe remains superior.
Even though head/neck shots are essentially 'free' for some reason (the top-right of 37 says 15s and 16s just hit the main body) they don't seem recommended since depleting that SDC isn't as useful as depleting main body SDC since mainbody-depletion can actually access hit points in a more reliable way for immobilizing them.
Strangely it seems impossible to target the head/neck and just outright MISS, I find it silly you always get a free shot on the main body when it's a near-miss. Why exactly would a missed slash or stab always go downward into the main body? Sometimes you go too high, or too far left or right...