Building a business/fortress

[RavenStarver]

I'm looking for any advice anyone has, I'm playing a magic user and am trying to find spells to help my in construction.
Wall of Stone came to mind but it isn't permanent, but in the Tolkeen books they reference using Earth spell to make permanent defensive structures.
I'm thinking of trying to make a manor house or castle and include a hot spring bath, except there's no natural hot spring in our area.
Anyone know of any spells that will help or apply?

[Tiree]

I think the ironwood spell would work as well. But you will need some form of permanence spell.

But I think you are looking for the stonemaster occ. They are the ones that created the pyramids.

I would look for some posts about rat_bastard's game, he did some world building as a player and designed a whole heck of a lot for a player ran city/state

[Nightmask]

I think the ironwood spell would work as well. But you will need some form of permanence spell.

But I think you are looking for the stonemaster occ. They are the ones that created the pyramids.

I would look for some posts about rat_bastard's game, he did some world building as a player and designed a whole heck of a lot for a player ran city/state

Since when does Ironwood need a Permanence Spell?

[Nightmask]

If you had an Earth Warlock you'd use the Create Clay spell to make clay to sculpt into walls and the like and the spell that converts clay to stone to then turn it into stone. If you wanted to include reinforcement or create a framework to apply the clay to first then acquire wood or the Create Wood spell combined with the Ironwood spell to give you wood that's now hard as steel. You'd of course also need the appropriate crafting skills (Sculpting and Woodworking) to work the materials properly (unfortunately they don't have a Civil Engineering skill to cover construction work).

I do not believe there are any spells that would let you create a hot springs/bath, that would be something you'd have to fake with the appropriate plumbing skills, although you might be able to manage with a Techno-Wizard creating a device to continually create and circulate water to supply the water you need (using the actual Create Water spell for Water Warlocks, not the utterly inferior version that's really 'recycle water' that for some bizarre reason they put in the Book of Magic in place of the actual one from Palladium Fantasy).

[Shark_Force]

yeah, you're not going to find much in the regular spell list. the earth warlock list has a bunch, but that's kind of a specialty of that specific class, and is not intended as something that just any spellcaster can pick up.

[RavenStarver]

Plans so far are to run actual heating coils under the pools and hook those up to a Ley line PPE generator, as for taking earth elemental spells the GM is allowing magic users to take spells from other classes, within reason, no line magic

[Nightmask]

yeah, you're not going to find much in the regular spell list. the earth warlock list has a bunch, but that's kind of a specialty of that specific class, and is not intended as something that just any spellcaster can pick up.

Unfortunately so, the game doesn't tend to support those who want to build, especially when it comes to spellcasters whether it be magical creations or mundane ones.

[drewkitty ~..~]

There are the D-Barrier and the Great Wall spells among the Wall Spells in the PF:LoB book

[RavenStarver]

Wait, could you combine Create Wood and Ironwood and build an entire town of MDC material?
It may take time but that seems surprisingly straight forward

[Tiree]

I would look for some posts about rat_bastard's game, he did some world building as a player and designed a whole heck of a lot for a player ran city/state

This thread was what I was thinking of: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=142208&p=2761733&hilit=*Alex*#p2761733

[Nightmask]

Wait, could you combine Create Wood and Ironwood and build an entire town of MDC material?
It may take time but that seems surprisingly straight forward

Actually that's mentioned in at least one book, that people make use of at a minimum the Create Wood spell so as to not have to chop down trees and make the area look lived in so that the forest looks pristine, so you could combine the two to get some seriously durable structures that don't look like they'd be so durable.

[Mack]

RavenStarver,
You might want to review this topic that discussed a TW Lumbermill.

[dragonfett]

Wait, could you combine Create Wood and Ironwood and build an entire town of MDC material?
It may take time but that seems surprisingly straight forward

Actually that's mentioned in at least one book, that people make use of at a minimum the Create Wood spell so as to not have to chop down trees and make the area look lived in so that the forest looks pristine, so you could combine the two to get some seriously durable structures that don't look like they'd be so durable.

That would be the Federation of Magic book discussing how the Federation (I think) has been able to remain hidden so well for so long.

[flatline]

It's a lot of effort to build a large MDC structure and it's probably not worth it. Flying is a really common ability for monsters and power armor, so walls are easily bypassed. Similarly, the damage mechanics allow anyone with a 1d6MD laser pistol and enough e-clips to reduce your structure to rubble.

With that in mind, instead of making something difficult to destroy, it's better to make something that's difficult to find. Perhaps build it underground or make it a network of Dimensional Envelopes.

[RavenStarver]

It's a lot of effort to build a large MDC structure and it's probably not worth it. Flying is a really common ability for monsters and power armor, so walls are easily bypassed. Similarly, the damage mechanics allow anyone with a 1d6MD laser pistol and enough e-clips to reduce your structure to rubble.

With that in mind, instead of making something difficult to destroy, it's better to make something that's difficult to find. Perhaps build it underground or make it a network of Dimensional Envelopes.

Sadly we're nowhere near high enough level to do that and I'm building a saloon/hot spring bathhouse by a preexisting town our GM made for us. Towns called Opportunity and is on the western border of Colorado

[flatline]

It's a lot of effort to build a large MDC structure and it's probably not worth it. Flying is a really common ability for monsters and power armor, so walls are easily bypassed. Similarly, the damage mechanics allow anyone with a 1d6MD laser pistol and enough e-clips to reduce your structure to rubble.

With that in mind, instead of making something difficult to destroy, it's better to make something that's difficult to find. Perhaps build it underground or make it a network of Dimensional Envelopes.

Sadly we're nowhere near high enough level to do that and I'm building a saloon/hot spring bathhouse by a preexisting town our GM made for us. Towns called Opportunity and is on the western border of Colorado

Well, a business is no good if customers can't find it. But make sure you have a more secure place for your valuables.

Do you have a temporal wizard in your party? That would make things easier (assuming you trust him).

[Mlp7029]

Agree with all the Create Wood and Ironwood suggestions. Regarding the heating and such I suggest a salvaged nuclear power plant from a bot and technological heating, etc. Magic does some things better than tech and tech does some things better than magic. Use the best of each.

[Nightmask]

It's a lot of effort to build a large MDC structure and it's probably not worth it. Flying is a really common ability for monsters and power armor, so walls are easily bypassed. Similarly, the damage mechanics allow anyone with a 1d6MD laser pistol and enough e-clips to reduce your structure to rubble.

With that in mind, instead of making something difficult to destroy, it's better to make something that's difficult to find. Perhaps build it underground or make it a network of Dimensional Envelopes.

No more effort than an SDC structure really, as long as you've the materials available or in this case can use magic to simply turn SDC materials (wood) into an MDC material. Only a little extra effort with regards to creating and enchanting the wood and not like you wouldn't have to put effort into producing any non-magical MDC materials anyway so it all evens out.

[Nightmask]

Depending on how generous your GM is there IS a Spell of Legend that can convert an SDC structure into an MDC one and even make it able to regenerate. It was used extensively by Tolkeen.

[guardiandashi]

in a lot of ways it seriously depends on what the goal is.

for instance you are building a shop/bar near an existing town and the reality is you want to consider things like how to get customers to come in, and want your product(s) and how to get them to spend as much as possible at your business rather than competitors.

additionally a repair/upgrade/refit business is going to have totally different necessities than a bar or a grocery store.

then considering a base/fortress is going to have again totally different necessities, one reason the serious defensive structures in the past had layers of defenses is you want to keep the "enemies" off of the core structures/people for as long as possible, and hopefully make it so they never get there. and the people who say concealment is better than actual armor well if they can't find you they can't attack which means... they can't directly damage your defenses.

[eliakon]

It's a lot of effort to build a large MDC structure and it's probably not worth it. Flying is a really common ability for monsters and power armor, so walls are easily bypassed. Similarly, the damage mechanics allow anyone with a 1d6MD laser pistol and enough e-clips to reduce your structure to rubble.

With that in mind, instead of making something difficult to destroy, it's better to make something that's difficult to find. Perhaps build it underground or make it a network of Dimensional Envelopes.

No more effort than an SDC structure really, as long as you've the materials available or in this case can use magic to simply turn SDC materials (wood) into an MDC material. Only a little extra effort with regards to creating and enchanting the wood and not like you wouldn't have to put effort into producing any non-magical MDC materials anyway so it all evens out.

One nice use of iron wood.....
if some one damages the building just remove the damaged boards/logs and replace them with new ones.....
Its not like mega concrete where the entire building has to be rebuilt from scratch or something.

[Nightmask]

It's a lot of effort to build a large MDC structure and it's probably not worth it. Flying is a really common ability for monsters and power armor, so walls are easily bypassed. Similarly, the damage mechanics allow anyone with a 1d6MD laser pistol and enough e-clips to reduce your structure to rubble.

With that in mind, instead of making something difficult to destroy, it's better to make something that's difficult to find. Perhaps build it underground or make it a network of Dimensional Envelopes.

No more effort than an SDC structure really, as long as you've the materials available or in this case can use magic to simply turn SDC materials (wood) into an MDC material. Only a little extra effort with regards to creating and enchanting the wood and not like you wouldn't have to put effort into producing any non-magical MDC materials anyway so it all evens out.

One nice use of iron wood.....
if some one damages the building just remove the damaged boards/logs and replace them with new ones.....
Its not like mega concrete where the entire building has to be rebuilt from scratch or something.

There's an Earth Warlock spell that mends stone, so you might be able to use that to fix things. Particularly if you were partnered with an Earth Warlock so that you had Ironwood-enhanced wood frames with stone-converted clay as the main building material over that frame. You could have thick stone walls that are effectively mega-damage structures that Mend Stone would work on if needed. I would expect spells that repair things like that Mend The Broken spell could fix those damaged wood beams as well.

[Mack]

Mend the Broken is ine of those spells that becomes crazy effective (or down right overpowered) when made into a TW device.

I highly recommend having one on hand, at whatever level of effectiveness your GM deems appropriate.

[flatline]

Mend the Broken is ine of those spells that becomes crazy effective (or down right overpowered) when made into a TW device.

I highly recommend having one on hand, at whatever level of effectiveness your GM deems appropriate.

First thing I did when I read RUE's TW rules was make a TW device that would mend 200 MDC for 1 PPE.

And then I decided the RUE TW rules were a disaster as is.

[RavenStarver]

It's a lot of effort to build a large MDC structure and it's probably not worth it. Flying is a really common ability for monsters and power armor, so walls are easily bypassed. Similarly, the damage mechanics allow anyone with a 1d6MD laser pistol and enough e-clips to reduce your structure to rubble.

With that in mind, instead of making something difficult to destroy, it's better to make something that's difficult to find. Perhaps build it underground or make it a network of Dimensional Envelopes.

Sadly we're nowhere near high enough level to do that and I'm building a saloon/hot spring bathhouse by a preexisting town our GM made for us. Towns called Opportunity and is on the western border of Colorado

Well, a business is no good if customers can't find it. But make sure you have a more secure place for your valuables.

Do you have a temporal wizard in your party? That would make things easier (assuming you trust him).

No temporal wizards, our GM has had bad experiences with them in the past, alongside Spacial Mages and so both have been outlawed.
Actually I'm the only direct magic user, rest of the group are two gunfighters, a juicer, a soldier, a psi-healer, two operators and a Techno-Wizard.