Dog boys sensing in "Burbs"

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:19 am

Quick question, if the dogboys sensing abilities are as pure awesome as the books say they are , how can a dragon live inside of the Burb's with out ever getting discovered at all ?

guardiandashi · Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:28 am

Lenwen wrote:Quick question, if the dogboys sensing abilities are as pure awesome as the books say they are , how can a dragon live inside of the Burb's with out ever getting discovered at all ?

"noise" I know it sounds stupid but from what I have read there is a lot of "weird" stuff in the burbs, and if the "dragon" is being as "quiet and subtle" as possible, its inherent "stuff" that it puts out might be washed out by all the "other" stuff the psi hound is sensing

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:30 am

possibility a) the burbs don't get that many patrols and some areas are not patrolled at all
b) the presence of official psychics (like the other dog boys in the patrol) muddles the perception.

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:40 am

There are lots of possible explanations, but my favorite is that magical sources are so common in the burbs via magic pigeons, eternal flames, and other magical effects that the CS can't remove that the dogboy senses are barely sensitive at all.

As long as you're not the "biggest" magical signal in the area, they won't key in on you.

More likely is that the Burbs covers a big enough area that the number of patrols assigned can't cover the area very well.

--flatline

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:34 pm

Pigeon pollution.

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:38 pm

And while I find this odd, the CS tends to allow a lot of "stuff" in the 'Burbs that they otherwise wouldn't tolerate.

glitterboy2098 · Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:52 pm

image your walking down the street. you'd probably think you can pick out a smell right?
make it a crowded street. you now have to pick out a smell from hundreds of "other human" smells.
but street don't exist in a vacuum. so put stores and shops along the sides of that street. not you also have hundreds of smells of books, food, ink, metal, etc.
and it's the run down. so toss in an open sewer line or two. car exhaust. etc.

now imagine trying to find something by smell in all that.

the burbs have a lot of people (human, mutant, psychic, and D-bee), so there is a lot of chaff to sort through. and their ability is not precise.. they can sense for example a high magical presence that screams "dragon" and given an idea of distance and direction.. but not to much more. as per pg145 of RUE, unless the person/thing being sensed is continually using PPE/ISP (for example, casting spells) they can't be tracked except in fairly general terms. so a dogboy pack might pick up a dragon. but if that dragon is shapechanged they can only follow in the rough direction they sensed it.. and if the dragon is disguised as say, an alley cat small enough to slip through places the dogboys can't go, or a large pigeon that can fly off at whim.. it can easily escape the pack and lose itself again in the mass.

and this assumes it comes in range.. while a dogboy's ability to sense magic/PPE in use is 400ft for active magic (casting and active spells, etc), their ability to pick up a supernatural critter not using active magic is only 50ft (pg145 of RUE).. and you can bet dragons are smart enough to figure out a patrol is coming and keep more than 50ft from it.

that kind of range limit means that 100% coverage of the burbs is pretty much impossible..

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:13 pm

glitterboy2098 brings up a good point. Even if a dragon was about to be cornered, it could teleport to outside the Dog Boy's sensing range and immediately shapeshift. The entire hunt/chase would have to start over from scratch. And I don't think having a Psi-Stalker on hand would dramatically change that dynamic.

Probably the biggest threat to the dragon would be if a local decided to rat him out in order to gain favor with the CS.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:34 pm

Or if the dragon didn't know the dog boy was coming, they might disguise themselves.

Course with all the thousands of magic pigeons smart mages are bound to have released with messages of 'poopy Prosek' for Karl, I don't know how the Dogs could pick a dragon out of it.

glitterboy2098 · Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:00 pm

Tor wrote:Or if the dragon didn't know the dog boy was coming, they might disguise themselves.

hmm.. would a dragon's shapeshift count as an 'active' magic for sensing? certainly the act of shifting between being a dragon and being, say, a pigeon would show up as such. but after the shift itself, would it qualify as 'active' magic?

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:41 pm

I can't help but think a morphed dragon registering as magic could cause some problems for guys like Prcyval.

Incriptus · Unread post by **Incriptus** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:53 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:and this assumes it comes in range.. while a dogboy's ability to sense magic/PPE in use is 400ft for active magic (casting and active spells, etc), their ability to pick up a supernatural critter not using active magic is only 50ft (pg145 of RUE).. and you can bet dragons are smart enough to figure out a patrol is coming and keep more than 50ft from it.

that kind of range limit means that 100% coverage of the burbs is pretty much impossible..

I think that's the main reason. They'll simply try to avoid the patrols. If they do get caught by the patrols they'll try to run.

And I'm going to suspect the patrol will let the dragon run. After all, it's just the burbs ... and if they chase it, it might just turn and fight.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:28 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:
Tor wrote:Or if the dragon didn't know the dog boy was coming, they might disguise themselves.

hmm.. would a dragon's shapeshift count as an 'active' magic for sensing? certainly the act of shifting between being a dragon and being, say, a pigeon would show up as such. but after the shift itself, would it qualify as 'active' magic?

I don't see why it would. It's a natural ability after all. Granted Dragons are creatures of magic and might register as "active magic" just due to their nature.

What would probably give it away is something like it's PPE base. Though Psionic Powers of Alter Aura, Mask PPE (and similar) would work to conceal it. However, those are not automatic powers either possessed by all dragons or other non-humans one is likely to find in the 'burbs the CS may want to get rid of.

Lenwen wrote:Quick question, if the dogboys sensing abilities are as pure awesome as the books say they are , how can a dragon live inside of the Burb's with out ever getting discovered at all ?

Other than what has been said,

Bribes.

Alter Aura or Mask PPE Psionic Powers. I don't know of any magic equivalents.

Some type of PPE "stealthing", where material is used to block/scatter/manipulate PPE emanations. We know that materials can disrupt the flow of PPE in spell casting and in the reverse ISP can even be enhanced due to arrangement of a variety of specific quartz crystals.

Bill · Unread post by **Bill** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:38 pm

It's not explained in any satisfying way, canonically. I handle it as widespread corruption in the Coalition military command structure leading to the sale of patrol information to underworld contacts. Anyone in the loop and paid up gets lots of warning that a patrol is coming. Anybody that doesn't pay gets made an example of. It's a win-win for the conspirators to let that happen too. The Dog Pack maintains its reputation by bringing in a stream of threats (mostly the ones that are too savage or arrogant to play ball), the CS brass continues to see the benefit of the patrols while lining their pockets, and the black-market thugs who actually run the protection racket don't need to risk their own men to enforce the threat they're selling protection from.

This makes it possible and relatively easy to be a supernatural being or magic user in the 'Burbs, but it requires player characters to participate in some conspiracy and role-play to enjoy those benefits. I think making this an open secret also has a lot of opportunities for stories. A group of player characters could attempt to break the system for various reasons; may they're CS true believers, maybe they think the law is more important than keeping the system functional, maybe they're a cabal of magic users and supernaturals that don't want to participate in a corrupt system that is used to terrorize their own kind, maybe an unknown outsider has killed a pivotal member of the conspiracy and the players must find a way to restore the balance of power before something goes horribly wrong, etc.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:47 pm

Perhaps, "most" of the dogboys are out on patrol's .. and a VAST VAST minority of them actually hunt anything what so ever in the Burbs themselves ?

Bill · Unread post by **Bill** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:22 pm

Lenwen wrote:Perhaps, "most" of the dogboys are out on patrol's .. and a VAST VAST minority of them actually hunt anything what so ever in the Burbs themselves ?

I think that would be inconsistent with what's published. Forbidden Knowledge indicates that "Soldiers sweep the Old Town 'Burbs only once or twice a week," and goes on to say about the New Towns, "Even when the 'Burbs are not under martial law, both the Coalition Military and ISS maintain a presence via frequent patrols, investigations and shakedowns." It even specifies that New Towns are patrolled 1D4+4 times per day, with air support 1D4+1 times per day, while shanties are patrolled 2D4+8 times per day! Now, it doesn't specify that those are Dog Packs. Rifts Ultimate Edition says the following though, "Ironically, the mutant Dog Packs are among the most reliable and helpful of the 'Burbs' protectors. They take a sincere and serious attitude regarding murder and any violence taken against humans," and states that a third of all military squads operating in CS territory include one or two Dog Boys. So even if the patrols are not Dog Packs per se, they still include Psi Hounds.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:41 am

I'm confused, soldiers 'sweep' 1-2 times a week but they 'patrol' 5-8 or 10-16 times a day?

Perhaps 'sweep' means they comb the whole area while 'patrol' means they mainly go around the borders or major roads, leaving lots of places for supernaturals to hide undetected?

Killer Cyborg · Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:07 pm

Tor wrote:I'm confused, soldiers 'sweep' 1-2 times a week but they 'patrol' 5-8 or 10-16 times a day?

Perhaps 'sweep' means they comb the whole area while 'patrol' means they mainly go around the borders or major roads, leaving lots of places for supernaturals to hide undetected?

"Patrol" would be driving/walking down the streets or flying overhead, looking for conspicuous trouble.
"Sweep" would be a more thorough search, that would involve larger numbers of cops moving through an area, arresting all suspects, searching anybody who looked slightly suspicious, and possibly searching houses/tents/hovels/whatever.

guardiandashi · Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:21 pm

Killer Cyborg wrote:
Tor wrote:I'm confused, soldiers 'sweep' 1-2 times a week but they 'patrol' 5-8 or 10-16 times a day?

Perhaps 'sweep' means they comb the whole area while 'patrol' means they mainly go around the borders or major roads, leaving lots of places for supernaturals to hide undetected?

"Patrol" would be driving/walking down the streets or flying overhead, looking for conspicuous trouble.
"Sweep" would be a more thorough search, that would involve larger numbers of cops moving through an area, arresting all suspects, searching anybody who looked slightly suspicious, and possibly searching houses/tents/hovels/whatever.

I consider in the syntax patrol is essentially moving through the area basically asking for trouble to come out, and responding to issues but not actively looking for or trying to cause trouble.

a "sweep" in syntax is essentially responding to a "complaint" or tip about something "off" IE door to door, "papers please" and dealing with whatever comes to light. IE specifically LOOKING for issues to respond to or crack down on.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:28 pm

How hard do you think it'd be to construct a 100ft pit for a dragon or mage to hide in? This'd keep them out of the sensing range of most dog boys and low-mid Stalkers. Bigger pits would be needed if a higher-level Stalker was about though.

Or... since dragons can teleport... you might not even need a full shaft, just an enclosed hole. Although teleporting blind could cause trouble...

Of course with metamorphosis, you could make a super-narrow shaft the size of a smaller animal like a cat. Even a 1st level dragon can remain morphed for hours, could probably wait out most casual patrols. Not sure how long a full sweep would last though.

Aside from pits... there's also possibly large poles or trees. Keeping in mind that a 50ft branch, you'd need to stand directly underneath it if you had a 50ft range, otherwise you're dealing with diagonals. Using height or depth will decrease the amount of horizantal space you need to keep between yourself and any ground patrols. Dat Pythagoras.

Killer Cyborg · Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:34 pm

There are probably sewers down there.
Remember, Chi-Town itself goes down "several" stories down underground. Wouldn't be difficult to assume there are sewer systems around and/or old tunnels that go pretty far down as well.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:41 pm

Some creative work done by earth elementals, dwarves, kobolds or troglodytes might have led to an underground network under the burbs, might explain why it's so hard to clean it.

Course I'm sure the CS regularly blows up the tunnels and stuff, causing cave-ins.

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:29 pm

The First Rifts Adventure Book and Index has the Obermax Imperative. THis has...
a 'sewer and cistern 30' under the streets' The tunnel is 10 feet tall and six feet wide.
a tunnel reaching to the 'Pre-Rifts ruins level (Colfax Illinois)' 100' under chi-town (this is accessed from the above mentioned sewer, by an artificial tunnel with doors and ladders)

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:26 pm

Interesting

That's a place to build on. I'd love some advanced tunnel-based rules like on how skill penalties accrue the deeper you go, guidelines for what the soil/rock is like in different regions, if this has changed since the coming of the rifts, etc. Not to mention stuff like how much soil shelters you from missile strikes.

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:41 pm

Bill wrote: Rifts Ultimate Edition says the following though, "Ironically, the mutant Dog Packs are among the most reliable and helpful of the 'Burbs' protectors. They take a sincere and serious attitude regarding murder and any violence taken against humans," and states that a third of all military squads operating in CS territory include one or two Dog Boys. So even if the patrols are not Dog Packs per se, they still include Psi Hounds.

Hmm... If a third of all squads have one or two Dog Boys, then by extension just about every platoon should have at least one or two Dog Boys.

Will have to think about that some more.

Bill · Unread post by **Bill** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:35 pm

It's half of all squads on the borders and in hostile territory, if that helps. And while I may be mistaken, I think the context of Forbidden Knowledge implies that a sweep is a cursory inspection of an Old Town. The description of the Old Towns makes it sound like they're collaborators who will do anything to impress their Coalition masters. They make the Vichy government look like resistance fighters. They're definitely not trusted, but the CS brass know to focus their efforts on the shanty areas; where jokers might try digging secret tunnels into the abandoned sewer systems of ancient Colfax.

Warmaster40k · Unread post by **Warmaster40k** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:07 pm

Might be that Coalition might apply this little rule of thumb, if Dragon is detected, investigate area. If area is found to have a low to zero incident index, ie crime and incidents involving dumber more destructive creatures leave the Dragon alone as it is either a managing the area and keeping it clean or its presence frightens off the other creatures. If the index is mid to high get purge ready especially if the Dragon is responsible for said incidents. Dragons are incredibly dangerous creatures that have a high resource demands to take out. Also foot patrols are not equipped to handle said dragon.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:10 am

When a creature is hiding, not eating people, creates easy plausible deniability to keep the boys looking good. If it starts to cause trouble, even if you've been letting it be for 10 years, act like it just recently arrived. If a new guy arrives on scene who is dedicated to his work, credit the 'discovery' to him to cover your butts.

Suicycho · Unread post by **Suicycho** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:47 pm

Mack wrote:And while I find this odd, the CS tends to allow a lot of "stuff" in the 'Burbs that they otherwise wouldn't tolerate.

Agreed. You would think that before they went to war against Tolkeen they would have at least cleaned out their one yard.

Nightmask · Unread post by **Nightmask** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:57 pm

Suicycho wrote:
Mack wrote:And while I find this odd, the CS tends to allow a lot of "stuff" in the 'Burbs that they otherwise wouldn't tolerate.

Agreed. You would think that before they went to war against Tolkeen they would have at least cleaned out their one yard.

That's because they use it as a honey pot, recognizing the value of it as a means of learning more about 'the enemy' and an easy spot to have their own spies make connections and infiltrate 'the enemy'. Plus as generally corrupt as the CS is the higher ups and military like that ready access to illicit goods and services the 'Burbs provide. If they were a flat 2D Evil Empire they'd exterminate everything in the 'Burbs deemed a target for extermination but since they aren't they keep some around to exploit for their long-term goals.

Bill · Unread post by **Bill** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:57 pm

At the same time, they keep everyone that lives in the 'Burbs on their toes with the threat of a culling. They frequently flatten portions of the 'Burbs with little provocation. It's like they've adopted emotionally abusive relationships as their model for urban planning.

glitterboy2098 · Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:10 pm

honestly i'm not so sure the CS is activily ignoring the activity in the burbs. i suspect that if they could get rid of it all and keep it out, they would.

but that kind of thing in the burbs is like organized crime mixed with an insurgency.. and as history has shown, stamping both of those out in major urban areas is ridiculously hard to do.

so i think they are doing what they can to stop it.. it's just too big a problem and too complex an environment to catch more than a small fraction of it.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:57 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:honestly i'm not so sure the CS is activily ignoring the activity in the burbs. i suspect that if they could get rid of it all and keep it out, they would.

Anyone who attempts to say they "ignore it" .. is going against canon source material, that clearly states they are Very much agressive like, an everything in their approach to the supernatural.

Shark_Force · Unread post by **Shark_Force** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:41 am

i suspect they consider it a valuable source of propaganda fuel, because just about anything bad that happens they can blame on someone or something in the 'burbs and fuel the paranoia that keeps them in power.

not that they necessarily could just clean everything up or anything, but i think they probably also make use of it.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:43 pm

Lenwen wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:honestly i'm not so sure the CS is activily ignoring the activity in the burbs. i suspect that if they could get rid of it all and keep it out, they would.

Anyone who attempts to say they "ignore it" .. is going against canon source material, that clearly states they are Very much agressive like, an everything in their approach to the supernatural.

Being aggressive against many may not mean all targets or all aggressors all the time.

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:45 pm

Lenwen wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:honestly i'm not so sure the CS is activily ignoring the activity in the burbs. i suspect that if they could get rid of it all and keep it out, they would.

Anyone who attempts to say they "ignore it" .. is going against canon source material, that clearly states they are Very much agressive like, an everything in their approach to the supernatural.

Can you cite a book source for your claim that it is canon source material that the CS is "very much aggressive like, an everthing in their approach to the supernatural"
Further can you provide a citation that supports the claim that they do not ignore, nor minimize their response to the Burbs because they find it futile and instead spend their resources doing other things?

Because otherwise your claiming that your personal view of how something (Headcanon) is the official view on how it is (canon).
Which unfortunately is a privilege reserved for Kevin, and by his editorial fiat those authors who have been published in official materials.

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:19 pm

Bill wrote:It's not explained in any satisfying way, canonically. I handle it as widespread corruption in the Coalition military command structure leading to the sale of patrol information to underworld contacts. Anyone in the loop and paid up gets lots of warning that a patrol is coming. Anybody that doesn't pay gets made an example of. It's a win-win for the conspirators to let that happen too. The Dog Pack maintains its reputation by bringing in a stream of threats (mostly the ones that are too savage or arrogant to play ball), the CS brass continues to see the benefit of the patrols while lining their pockets, and the black-market thugs who actually run the protection racket don't need to risk their own men to enforce the threat they're selling protection from.

This makes it possible and relatively easy to be a supernatural being or magic user in the 'Burbs, but it requires player characters to participate in some conspiracy and role-play to enjoy those benefits. I think making this an open secret also has a lot of opportunities for stories. A group of player characters could attempt to break the system for various reasons; may they're CS true believers, maybe they think the law is more important than keeping the system functional, maybe they're a cabal of magic users and supernaturals that don't want to participate in a corrupt system that is used to terrorize their own kind, maybe an unknown outsider has killed a pivotal member of the conspiracy and the players must find a way to restore the balance of power before something goes horribly wrong, etc.

The good part of it is that the "conspirators" don't even have to be CS people as such - black marketeers, chop-shop employees, smugglers, human psychics too mutated for the CS tastes, 'burb families that eventually caught on they'll never be accepted in the fortress cities or resent being manhandled for protection money and a lot of other people in these could have a bunch of reasons to maintain such a web of intel and lookouts. Simply put, there are far more burb natives that might collaborate for their own interests than smart and dedicated CS soldiers to get around it.

Nekira Sudacne · Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:02 pm

Lenwen wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:honestly i'm not so sure the CS is activily ignoring the activity in the burbs. i suspect that if they could get rid of it all and keep it out, they would.

Anyone who attempts to say they "ignore it" .. is going against canon source material, that clearly states they are Very much agressive like, an everything in their approach to the supernatural.

Erm...source? Both the old RMB and new RUE make it clear that hte burbs are considered a free port where only supernatural predators and demons are exterminated aggressively. Men of Magic are not innately hunted down, the patrols just won't stop to help them or investigate a "Disapearance". Hell, you can even buy a pass to let a practicor of magic into chi-town itself from the burbs (Costs more for a high security pass and will have to be escorted by stalkers/dog boys at all times). So not only is their presence in the burbs tolerated by cannon, they can even enter to do buisness in the mega cities perfectly legally.

They hate and distrust magic users. they will occasionally purge them with cause, but they have never been "Kill any and every magic user you see for no reason other than they use magic". that is purely a fan-made meme and I have never seen words to that effect in any Rifts book.

The fact they sometimes send out seek and destroy parties out of paranoia or a tipoff dosn't mean these patrols are going on 24/7.

Bill · Unread post by **Bill** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:18 pm

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Erm...source? Both the old RMB and new RUE make it clear that hte burbs are considered a free port where only supernatural predators and demons are exterminated aggressively.

RUE, p.28 wrote:Although the 'Burbs are considered a free-port, where all races and philosophies are welcome (and do indeed attract a vast number of adventurers and travelers), non-humans, practitioners of magic, scholars, and psychics are viewed with great prejudice. The Coalition peacekeeping forces seldom lift a finger to help a D-Bee or mystic even if they are witnesses to an attack. The murder of a D-Bee or practitioner of magic in the 'Burbs is rarely investigated, and then, only if the murderer appears to be another "undesirable," like a psychic, wizard, or D-Bee. Ironically, the mutant Dog Packs are among the most reliable and helpful of the 'Burbs' protectors. They take a sincere and serious attitude regarding murder and any violence taken against humans. They are particularly alert and aggressive toward crimes and atrocities committed by psychics, magic users, and supernatural beings.

While CS grunts aren't pulling people aside and blowing their heads off, the policy toward magic users in the 'Burbs is not exactly tolerant. I interpret it to be something more along the lines of, don't start none, won't be none. They're not actively searching for supernatural beings most of the time, but if one can't bother to keep itself hidden they'll take a minute to shoot 'em. And the Dog Pack patrols are an unsubtle reminder that they can find you, if you're careless.

Nekira Sudacne · Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:34 pm

Bill wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:Erm...source? Both the old RMB and new RUE make it clear that hte burbs are considered a free port where only supernatural predators and demons are exterminated aggressively.
RUE, p.28 wrote:Although the 'Burbs are considered a free-port, where all races and philosophies are welcome (and do indeed attract a vast number of adventurers and travelers), non-humans, practitioners of magic, scholars, and psychics are viewed with great prejudice. The Coalition peacekeeping forces seldom lift a finger to help a D-Bee or mystic even if they are witnesses to an attack. The murder of a D-Bee or practitioner of magic in the 'Burbs is rarely investigated, and then, only if the murderer appears to be another "undesirable," like a psychic, wizard, or D-Bee. Ironically, the mutant Dog Packs are among the most reliable and helpful of the 'Burbs' protectors. They take a sincere and serious attitude regarding murder and any violence taken against humans. They are particularly alert and aggressive toward crimes and atrocities committed by psychics, magic users, and supernatural beings.

While CS grunts aren't pulling people aside and blowing their heads off, the policy toward magic users in the 'Burbs is not exactly tolerant. I interpret it to be something more along the lines of, don't start none, won't be none. They're not actively searching for supernatural beings most of the time, but if one can't bother to keep itself hidden they'll take a minute to shoot 'em. And the Dog Pack patrols are an unsubtle reminder that they can find you, if you're careless.

It actually says such murders are not formal policy nor are they endorced or supported. they are merely overlooked. the CS won't dicipline a Deadboy for misting a mage, but it is not policy to do so. there is a HUGE difference between "If the grunt wastes a mage, he won't be punished' to "grunts routinely waste every mage they happen to notice. I don't see how the latter is a reasonable interpretation of the given material?

guardiandashi · Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:44 pm

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Bill wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:Erm...source? Both the old RMB and new RUE make it clear that hte burbs are considered a free port where only supernatural predators and demons are exterminated aggressively.
RUE, p.28 wrote:Although the 'Burbs are considered a free-port, where all races and philosophies are welcome (and do indeed attract a vast number of adventurers and travelers), non-humans, practitioners of magic, scholars, and psychics are viewed with great prejudice. The Coalition peacekeeping forces seldom lift a finger to help a D-Bee or mystic even if they are witnesses to an attack. The murder of a D-Bee or practitioner of magic in the 'Burbs is rarely investigated, and then, only if the murderer appears to be another "undesirable," like a psychic, wizard, or D-Bee. Ironically, the mutant Dog Packs are among the most reliable and helpful of the 'Burbs' protectors. They take a sincere and serious attitude regarding murder and any violence taken against humans. They are particularly alert and aggressive toward crimes and atrocities committed by psychics, magic users, and supernatural beings.

While CS grunts aren't pulling people aside and blowing their heads off, the policy toward magic users in the 'Burbs is not exactly tolerant. I interpret it to be something more along the lines of, don't start none, won't be none. They're not actively searching for supernatural beings most of the time, but if one can't bother to keep itself hidden they'll take a minute to shoot 'em. And the Dog Pack patrols are an unsubtle reminder that they can find you, if you're careless.

There's nothing to indicate they shoot someone just for using magic. the fact that one of the largest burbs has Techno-Wizard firetrucks crusing around openly with magic users to put out fire that are not hassled by the CS is indicative enough of that. "They will shoot anyone they see using magic" is NEVER stated or implied anywhere I could find--if you have a cannon source...

true, but I will argue that "magic" ias an automatic escalation of any crime. by that I mean mage minding his own business shopping may (likely) won't get shot just on spec (although he still could be) however said mage robbing someone just went from a minor crime, to a MAJOR crime kind of like robbing someone with a knife isn't a huge deal, on the other hand robbing the same people with a gun, is automatically (insert crime) with a deadly weapon

Bill · Unread post by **Bill** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:55 pm

Nekira Sudacne wrote:It actually says such murders are not formal policy nor are they endorced or supported. they are merely overlooked. the CS won't dicipline a Deadboy for misting a mage, but it is not policy to do so. there is a HUGE difference between "If the grunt wastes a mage, he won't be punished' to "grunts routinely waste every mage they see". I don't see how the latter is a reasonable interpretation of the given material?

You are correct that the text does not specifically indicate that wholesale murder of magic users occurs. My interpretation of the text, based on my understanding of human psychology and sociology, is that it does though.

Fortunately, it's just a game and we can interpret it as we like.

Nekira Sudacne · Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:21 pm

Bill wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:It actually says such murders are not formal policy nor are they endorced or supported. they are merely overlooked. the CS won't dicipline a Deadboy for misting a mage, but it is not policy to do so. there is a HUGE difference between "If the grunt wastes a mage, he won't be punished' to "grunts routinely waste every mage they see". I don't see how the latter is a reasonable interpretation of the given material?

You are correct that the text does not specifically indicate that wholesale murder of magic users occurs. My interpretation of the text, based on my understanding of human psychology and sociology, is that it does though.

Fortunately, it's just a game and we can interpret it as we like.

Indeed. I'm merely wondering at what point an "interpretation" goes so far off what's actually written that it becomes "houseruled setting" rather than "differently interpreted canon"

"A power punch takes two attacks. does it start on the first attack but not land until the second, or does it happen immediately and simply ticks off 2 of your total for the round instead of one". You can interpret it either way and be valid.

"Will not punish occasional murders" means "All deadboys are murderers whenever given the chance" goes beyond vaugeness of wording and into the realms of making up new material to supplement existing material, is what i'm trying to say. yes, it's a game, you can do that, I am just trying to point out that I don't think it's a valid interpretation of canon so much as a common houseruled expansion of cannon. that dosn't mean you are "wrong", I just don't see how it can just be "my interpretation is just as valid" when it involves completely changing the context of a vast portion of written material. I houserule the setting extensively when I GM myself, I just don't call it "a different interpreation" -- it's a different iteration.