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creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:18 pm
by BIBBI
Just wondering if anyone knows a way in the rules to create a permanent copy of a non magical item.

to be more specific I'm trying to increase the supply of a metal without having to mine it. I've looked for a while but haven't found anything that does the trick.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:30 pm
by filo_clarke
A Conjurer (Rifts and PFRPG) can do it by burning his Permanent PPE. It had better be a VERY important project.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:56 pm
by eliakon
There is the level 9 spell 'Create Steel' in Rifts that can recycle certain metals, and end up with more metal than you started with.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 4:08 pm
by The Dark Elf
IIRC there are warlocks spell that can convert things into metal (can look it up atm). Like clay to lead or similar.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 9:52 pm
by Cinos
Earth Warlocks can alter some materials into metal with lasting effect, I think stone to Iron is the exact spell (and Mud to Stone, so you just go to a river bank, dig up a pile of mud, turn it to stone, then to iron, and bring it over to a forge for shaping).

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:12 pm
by BIBBI
The conjurer appears to be the only thing that works so far. thank you for the insight.

create metal and the warlock spells don't work for the kind of metal I'm trying to replicate (Gantrium, from the northern hinterlands book)

a spell, even a temporary one, would be optimal. if not it looks like I'm going to have to pick up the Conjurer OCC.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:36 pm
by eliakon
BIBBI wrote:The conjurer appears to be the only thing that works so far. thank you for the insight.

create metal and the warlock spells don't work for the kind of metal I'm trying to replicate (Gantrium, from the northern hinterlands book)

a spell, even a temporary one, would be optimal. if not it looks like I'm going to have to pick up the Conjurer OCC.

Just be aware, that as noted by some in the Conjurer thread in the Magic forum, that you may not be able to conjure Gantrium. Especially in PF where the Conjurer class has the note about being unable to summon precious metals.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:33 pm
by Cinos
BIBBI wrote:The conjurer appears to be the only thing that works so far. thank you for the insight.

create metal and the warlock spells don't work for the kind of metal I'm trying to replicate (Gantrium, from the northern hinterlands book)

a spell, even a temporary one, would be optimal. if not it looks like I'm going to have to pick up the Conjurer OCC.


I would never in a million years, as a GM, allow a player to create Gantrium for any reason.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:54 pm
by zyanitevp
Cinos wrote:
BIBBI wrote:The conjurer appears to be the only thing that works so far. thank you for the insight.

create metal and the warlock spells don't work for the kind of metal I'm trying to replicate (Gantrium, from the northern hinterlands book)

a spell, even a temporary one, would be optimal. if not it looks like I'm going to have to pick up the Conjurer OCC.


I would never in a million years, as a GM, allow a player to create Gantrium for any reason.

Agreed.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:09 pm
by Tor
If you don't let them make Gantrium you know they'll just start a Zaayr farm instead. You don't want to see those things breeding do you?

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:47 pm
by Lukterran
The two spells you are looking for are Earth warlock spells. The first is "Create Dirt or Clay" 2nd level spell pg. 228. The other is "Clay or Stone to Iron" 6th level spell pg. 231. Both are permanent!

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:35 pm
by say652
What about using temporal magic to bring said item from the future to the past. Ie. Two of the same rune sword.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:29 pm
by Chronicle
say652 wrote:What about using temporal magic to bring said item from the future to the past. Ie. Two of the same rune sword.




Then the player should know that eventually he would lose the sword that gets taken. Ahhhh temporal mechanics suck.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:31 pm
by say652
Two mjonirs though. Even if you only get it for a few adventures would still be epic.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:42 pm
by Cinos
say652 wrote:What about using temporal magic to bring said item from the future to the past. Ie. Two of the same rune sword.


This I might let fly in a case by case, but the unique weapon would need to follow the same rules a person would. I.E if you state that if two of the same person come into contact during time travel explode or create a paradox, two of the same rune weapon should do the same (having souls and being made of the same material and all). To avoid too much headache, I generally rule that time travelers cannot exist in a time they have existed before (unless they're 4D beings), which would make rune weapons tricky to use this way given their age.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:48 pm
by say652
My thought was a quantum copy. So a sword good alignment grants control kinetic energy. The temporal duplicate may appear as an axe or mace. But still be that particular weapon.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:56 am
by BIBBI
Nightfactory wrote:
Cinos wrote:
BIBBI wrote:The conjurer appears to be the only thing that works so far. thank you for the insight.

create metal and the warlock spells don't work for the kind of metal I'm trying to replicate (Gantrium, from the northern hinterlands book)

a spell, even a temporary one, would be optimal. if not it looks like I'm going to have to pick up the Conjurer OCC.


I would never in a million years, as a GM, allow a player to create Gantrium for any reason.


+1000


1) this was merely curiosity, I would never actually do this. unless of course the current level of play would render whatever I did with that much gantrium balanced (Ex. the GM is throwing [flocks, wings, herds, not really sure what the correct one is.] of dragons at the group.)

2) found a way to do it.

3) to the people talking about the time shenanigans. I did use that once, though as a GM, after a time traveler sold a character a weapon, he implied that he'd looted it from the character's corpse.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:14 pm
by say652
I got that ONE ;) good idea. Lol.
And a Murder of Dragons?? Sounds like tuesday to me. Lol.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:10 am
by BIBBI
it requires a Rifter class. the animator (which is quickly becoming one of the most broken classes that I have found) from Rifter #26. at level 9 he can create constructs that repair themselves over time, 2d6 every 30 seconds. if you take a chunk of gantrium (either raw, or forged in non magical fire.), animate it, and had someone file away at it, then the construct would "heal" itself by creating more material, however the shavings would be left behind. if you can get someone who can deal enough damage with a file, you could (assuming gantrium when not indestructible has a similar weight-to-sdc ratio to steel) create about 11 pounds per minute, more if there is less sdc per pound.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:24 pm
by Lukterran
say652 wrote:What about using temporal magic to bring said item from the future to the past. Ie. Two of the same rune sword.


If you haven't noticed yet. All temporal magic in Palladium alone works in one direction, FORWARD. Nothing ever goes back in time. This is to take away any paradox like scenerios etc...

You can slow time, speed it up, stop it, jump forward to some furture time, but you can never go back or send anything into the past. Time reversal is not a currently in the Palladium game system.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:50 pm
by say652
Dimensional anomaly. Ie. A quantum copy.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:24 pm
by MADMANMIKE
Lukterran wrote:
say652 wrote:What about using temporal magic to bring said item from the future to the past. Ie. Two of the same rune sword.


If you haven't noticed yet. All temporal magic in Palladium alone works in one direction, FORWARD. Nothing ever goes back in time. This is to take away any paradox like scenerios etc...

You can slow time, speed it up, stop it, jump forward to some furture time, but you can never go back or send anything into the past. Time reversal is not a currently in the Palladium game system.


I'll beat Tor to the punch and point out the Time Travel Magic in the out of print and thus no longer canon Transdimensional Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:20 pm
by say652
Mjinor and StormBreaker.
Same weapon two different beings use them. Jussayin.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:11 pm
by eliakon
BIBBI wrote:it requires a Rifter class. the animator (which is quickly becoming one of the most broken classes that I have found) from Rifter #26. at level 9 he can create constructs that repair themselves over time, 2d6 every 30 seconds. if you take a chunk of gantrium (either raw, or forged in non magical fire.), animate it, and had someone file away at it, then the construct would "heal" itself by creating more material, however the shavings would be left behind. if you can get someone who can deal enough damage with a file, you could (assuming gantrium when not indestructible has a similar weight-to-sdc ratio to steel) create about 11 pounds per minute, more if there is less sdc per pound.

There are a couple issues I have with that.
1) it presumes that the shavings would stick around
2) it presumes that the repairs will magically create material to 'fix it'

I would be VERY likely to be inclined to say that the shavings will 'evaporate' at that same rate....I.E. the damaged parts return to the whole.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:25 pm
by Nightmask
say652 wrote:Mjinor and StormBreaker.
Same weapon two different beings use them. Jussayin.


If you're talking the Marvel Comics items then no they aren't the same weapon, Odin commissioned Stormbreaker's construction and gave it identical enchantments to Thor's hammer Mjolnir in order to reward Beta Ray Bill for his proven heroic nature to rival Thor.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:44 pm
by say652
So If a greater god can make duplicate unique rune weapons.
Maybe a spell or combination of spells can infact duplicate minor weapons. Two greatest rune weapons for example.
Plausible! !

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:26 pm
by eliakon
say652 wrote:So If a greater god can make duplicate unique rune weapons.
Maybe a spell or combination of spells can infact duplicate minor weapons. Two greatest rune weapons for example.
Plausible! !

I do not follow the logic of "If one of the most top tier beings in the megaverse (A greater god/head of pantheon) can do something (In another IP) Then mortal magic should be able to do it too."

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:41 pm
by say652
To a lesser degree. Yes.
Now the fun part. What exctly are we trying to duplicate? ?

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:37 pm
by kiralon
Gantrium

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:02 pm
by say652
kiralon wrote:Gantrium

No.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:13 pm
by BIBBI
eliakon wrote:There are a couple issues I have with that.
1) it presumes that the shavings would stick around
2) it presumes that the repairs will magically create material to 'fix it'

I would be VERY likely to be inclined to say that the shavings will 'evaporate' at that same rate....I.E. the damaged parts return to the whole.


1) valid point, this is the biggest wrench in this system. my argument on why it would not is below.

2) specific wording is "Bio regenerate" all other bio regenerates in the game (most notably phoenixi) add more material and leave the cut off pieces

say625 wrote:No.


as has been stated previously, purely for purposes of system mastery and curiosity. would likely never be used in game.

Re: creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:18 pm
by say652
A fixed item sure. But an unlimited supply of raw materials O.O I am a level 9000 Munchkin and I'm like dude thats just not fair. Lol