question does anyone know if there are

[ZINO]

question does anyone know if there are any type of force filed in this new redone or remake
like the invid sled or fighter pod I think for mech of any type ?I been reading and cannot not find not one mecha with force filed or fighter for that matter ?

[silvermoon383]

I know that the Invid Hives use force fields to protect their entrances, and that the Protoculture Farms have a forcefield fence, but as for ships I haven't come across anything.

[ShadowLogan]

In the 2E RPG I don't think Force Fields made a return, but dialogue exists for some Zentreadi mecha to have Force Field/Shields (even the Horizon-T has thermal energy shields).

[Seto Kaiba]

question does anyone know if there are any type of force filed in this new redone or remake
like the invid sled or fighter pod I think for mech of any type ?I been reading and cannot not find not one mecha with force filed or fighter for that matter ?

Nope... as the "2nd Edition" of the Robotech RPG is at least trying to follow canon, there are no mecha or fighters with force fields or other types of energy shields. That's pretty much the exclusive domain of warships in Robotech's official continuity.

[ZINO]

question does anyone know if there are any type of force filed in this new redone or remake
like the invid sled or fighter pod I think for mech of any type ?I been reading and cannot not find not one mecha with force filed or fighter for that matter ?

Nope... as the "2nd Edition" of the Robotech RPG is at least trying to follow canon, there are no mecha or fighters with force fields or other types of energy shields. That's pretty much the exclusive domain of warships in Robotech's official continuity.

ok thank unless so Official stuff shows up I agree

[ShadowLogan]

question does anyone know if there are any type of force filed in this new redone or remake
like the invid sled or fighter pod I think for mech of any type ?I been reading and cannot not find not one mecha with force filed or fighter for that matter ?

Nope... as the "2nd Edition" of the Robotech RPG is at least trying to follow canon, there are no mecha or fighters with force fields or other types of energy shields. That's pretty much the exclusive domain of warships in Robotech's official continuity.

"Bursting Point"- Khryon to his Zentraedi fighters: "Keep your shields up..."

It's not the most clear instance I admit, but it is open to interpretation as such for Mecha Force Field type Shields (as it did in 1E, though one has to ask why similar systems where not adopted/retrofitted with later mecha).

[Colonel Wolfe]

It's not the most clear instance I admit, but it is open to interpretation as such for Mecha Force Field type Shields (as it did in 1E, though one has to ask why similar systems where not adopted/retrofitted with later mecha).

that's a 1 off line that can be ignored. if we begin taking every one off line to alter canon, we get the whole VF-Shrewfield fiasco.

[Seto Kaiba]

"Bursting Point"- Khryon to his Zentraedi fighters: "Keep your shields up..."

One of the (many) problems with the idea is that Khyron and his crew are mystified by the SDF-1's barrier system just a few cuts earlier in that same episode.

[Colonel Wolfe]

"Bursting Point"- Khryon to his Zentraedi fighters: "Keep your shields up..."

One of the (many) problems with the idea is that Khyron and his crew are mystified by the SDF-1's barrier system just a few cuts earlier in that same episode.

Well, they could be mystified by the omni-barrier.... and has some kinda directional shielding. but honestly, I don't see much evidence of them existing at the mecha scale, except for the one-offs in dialog.

[Seto Kaiba]

In Prelude to The Shadow Chronicles, when Edwards Shimakaze pops up form behind the Regent's "Carrier", Vince orders "Karen" (Penn perhaps?) to put "shields up".

That's a starship... the OP is asking about mecha.

[ShadowLogan]

In Prelude to The Shadow Chronicles, when Edwards Shimakaze pops up form behind the Regent's "Carrier", Vince orders "Karen" (Penn perhaps?) to put "shields up". When Edwards unmasks his Synchro Cannon a few moments later and pops a cap into Vince's refitted Tokugawa (what a waste that, his ship looked too sweet!), "Karen" reports "Main powers is down!" just after reporting that "Shields are gone!"

IIRC "Outsiders" also has the Tok. with shields in dialogue. But shields at that scale aren't in question.

"Bursting Point"- Khryon to his Zentraedi fighters: "Keep your shields up..."

One of the (many) problems with the idea is that Khyron and his crew are mystified by the SDF-1's barrier system just a few cuts earlier in that same episode.

"Bursting Point"-Grel It's an energy shield unlike any we've ever encountered and it seems this barrier is fully protecting the ship from our attack so what now

This would seem that the SDF-1 Omni-Barrier is of a type unknown to them, but that energy shields in general are not.

It's not the most clear instance I admit, but it is open to interpretation as such for Mecha Force Field type Shields (as it did in 1E, though one has to ask why similar systems where not adopted/retrofitted with later mecha).

that's a 1 off line that can be ignored. if we begin taking every one off line to alter canon, we get the whole VF-Shrewfield fiasco.

I'm not saying Khyron's line IS a 100% certainty reference to mecha scale shielding, only that it can be interpreted for mecha scale shielding.

[Seto Kaiba]

Maybe what Khyron said was "Keep your guard up!", but it got mistranslated somehow?

Nope... nothing even close to that is in the original dialogue. Energy shields are unique to humans and the Protoculture in Macross.

[ShadowLogan]

Still, I am amused that the Zentraedi are so surprised by the SDF-1 having a full barrier system, and yet the Robotech Master Motherships all seem to have them too. Was this perhaps a sign of the Master's distrust of their servant warriors?

Possibly, but one would have to show the Omni-Barrier is of the type the Masters use as the type of energy shield the SDF-1 used is unknown to them. I can see the Masters having several "trump card" features to deal with a Zentreadi rebellion (supposedly they have rebelled in the past).

The line by Grel would seem to point toward different types of Force Fields being out there, but the type used by the SDF-1 at this point was unknown to them.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Was reading the New Gen books and in teh Invid Genetic experiment class section. And lo and behold that in PC metabolizer it says they get a force field.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Was reading the New Gen books and in teh Invid Genetic experiment class section. And lo and behold that in PC metabolizer it says they get a force field.

well, its the RPG so its not actually canon about the series.
and, its invid tech, and its established the invid have forcefields.

[Seto Kaiba]

Well, what did he say in the OSM then? Everyone be sure to order out for pizza? Actually, that really makes the scene work in my mind...

The original Japanese dialogue for that scene has Kamjin telling his men to set their electronic countermeasures to max, and then to "go crazy" (as in, "attack without restraint"). Kamjin's battle plan in that episode revolved around attacking with his ships and fighters under the cover of heavy radar jamming, so he was making sure that his fighters would keep the element of surprise as long as possible by advancing under the cover of the ECM jamming broadcast by their mecha and the ships that were the weight of the attack.

[FreelancerMar]

Well one could look at ECM jaming as a type of sensory shield as it would scramble some electronic sensors. It is obvious that the Zentraedi have encountered energy Barier's/Shields before. The Masters have them and the Invid have them. The Zentraedi would have obviously recognized BOTH types. Also according to the Dialog, Dr. Lang Devloped or re-discovered Both Barrier systems that were abord the SDF-01, which technically is/was a robotech masters ship.
Lets just say that Dr. Lang is a Genious and leave it at that. One more thing. With the Retconnn, Robotech Mecha wouldn't have enough power output for a personal ES/FS/FF anyway. Espically not with how little time it lasts in the field.

[glitterboy2098]

Maybe what Khyron said was "Keep your guard up!", but it got mistranslated somehow?

Nope... nothing even close to that is in the original dialogue. Energy shields are unique to humans and the Protoculture in Macross.

actually i think he meant that the 'translation convention' used to present zent speech in english when they would actually be speaking 'zent' could be blamed for the confusion, and that we could assume he meant 'keep you guard up' or something similar.


personally, i'd rather assume that he was referring to physical covers that protect cameras and such from damage.. given that the Omni-barrier at that point was glowing quite brightly, he could have been telling his troops to fly by instruments only and thus keep their visual sensors from being burned out.

[Colonel Wolfe]

personally, i'd rather assume that he was referring to physical covers that protect cameras and such from damage.. given that the Omni-barrier at that point was glowing quite brightly, he could have been telling his troops to fly by instruments only and thus keep their visual sensors from being burned out.

The Omni-barrier isn't up at that point... Khyron issues the "shields up" order at 12:50 when his units are beginning their assault.
Khyron's Fleet enters Atmosphere at 13:50
the Barrier is activated at 15:20....

[glitterboy2098]

my mistake, but that doesn't mean the interpretation still can't apply. 'shields' could refer to "heatshields" like real world spacecraft use to protect their hull and systems.. which on something like a fighter pod could be a retractable physical device used to keep the reentry heat and plasma from melting/burning the sensors and weapons into uselessness. heck, for most of the mecha, if the exterior is armored anyway, all you'd need is a system to block off the tips of the barrels and cover any exposed optics or antenna. something that could be assumed without it having to be shown specifically in the footage.

[Seto Kaiba]

actually i think he meant that the 'translation convention' used to present zent speech in english when they would actually be speaking 'zent' could be blamed for the confusion, and that we could assume he meant 'keep you guard up' or something similar.

Somehow, I doubt it... there are no real obvious cases of such slips in the series. At least, none that haven't been written off as gaffes of the actual translators preparing the dialogue for Robotech.

EDIT: Mind you, there are a few potential linguistic gaffes in the original Macross due to the application of the translation convention, but they're all on the human (UN Spacy) side of things. The language the show uses for the human cast is (obviously) Japanese, but there's a huge amount of evidence that suggests they're actually speaking English. There are a few exceptions, most centered on Fire Bomber being a J-Rock band, but having the dialogue in Japanese even though they're actually speaking English raises a few problems when the characters use terms which don't translate directly into English... the most frequent offenders being seniority-based relationships where senpai and kohai are thrown around a lot.

The Zentradi in the OSM never have any linguistic SNAFUs that would indicate the rendering of their language into Japanese was anything less than precise. The Robotech dialogue referencing shields runs into the issue that there's nothing to indicate Khyron's speech is being misrendered. There are shields later in the series, which were referred to as "shields" rather than a "barrier", which makes his remark difficult to reconcile. It's chalked up to the rushed production schedule of the series most of the time... there just wasn't the time or the manpower to check dialogue for consistency with the animation or even between pages of the same script. My personal suspicion, on reflection, is that this "shields" reference was an attempt to "dumb down" the original dialogue into something that the target audience for Robotech (one much younger than that of the original show) would be able to get.

[Kagashi]

"Bursting Point"- Khryon to his Zentraedi fighters: "Keep your shields up..."

It's not the most clear instance I admit, but it is open to interpretation as such for Mecha Force Field type Shields (as it did in 1E, though one has to ask why similar systems where not adopted/retrofitted with later mecha).

Just throwing this out there: Like GB said, perhaps "Keep your shields up" is a Zentraedi phrase similar to us saying "Keep your wits about you" before folks are about to engage in combat. This makes more sense to me and still makes the RPG work well too. Personally, I think it was just a bit of dialog that was written without the idea the show would one day be an RPG since no source material indicates mecha sized ships have shields anyway.

[ZINO]

wow !!! love this thanks guys

[ESalter]

In Prelude to The Shadow Chronicles, when Edwards Shimakaze pops up form behind the Regent's "Carrier", Vince orders "Karen" (Penn perhaps?) to put "shields up". When Edwards unmasks his Synchro Cannon a few moments later and pops a cap into Vince's refitted Tokugawa (what a waste that, his ship looked too sweet!), "Karen" reports "Main powers is down!" just after reporting that "Shields are gone!"
I honestly have no idea what that is about, as no sort of shield is in evidence anywhere in the entire comic, other than the barrier over the Regents apparently lone hive, and they take that out pretty darn quick too! Possibly some sort of protoculture deprivation aspect maybe? As for the Tokugawa having shields, if they are there, then they are just barely tough enough so that the ship isn't flat destroyed, and is merely crippled instead.
I recall the Horizon Scott's fiancee, Marlene, went down on mentioning heat shields at one point too, but those proved insufficient to deal with reentry onto Earth;s atmosphere.

My impression from the show was that "shields" were armor plating and "barriers" were force fields, but I certainly don't remember every relevant quote.
WRT Fighter Pod "shields": that stuff on its nose does look kind of delicate, so I suppose that might be evidence of a "force field" (though I don't care for the idea myself).

Even at a greater than expected speed they would have had reason to expect this to work, or they wouldn't have considered it viable really, so I also assume the Regis did something to the atmosphere to make it harder to renter safely at higher than average speeds.

I don't know; what could she do that wouldn't completely alter the surface? And wouldn't the fleet have noticed before reentry?
WRT mechanical failure, I assume the exact failure point of complex devices is unpredictable. (For that matter, maybe the ship was already damaged in space.)

[Seto Kaiba]

Personally, I think it was just a bit of dialog that was written without the idea the show would one day be an RPG since no source material indicates mecha sized ships have shields anyway.

Close! In truth, it's more that the writers were working to an incredibly tight production schedule and had every reason to believe that their work would never be the subject of close scrutiny. Robotech was, after all, meant to be a dumbed down and artificially extended version of Macross suitable for primary school children instead of the high school-aged audience the originals were made for. It was only ever meant to be a toy commercial for Revell's failing "Robotech" line of anime model kits, so they probably didn't think anyone would look at it too closely if they threw in whatever to meet their deadline.

I don't know; what could she do that wouldn't completely alter the surface? And wouldn't the fleet have noticed before reentry?

The idea comes from the original MOSPEADA, which is where the Refless did exactly that.

WRT mechanical failure, I assume the exact failure point of complex devices is unpredictable. (For that matter, maybe the ship was already damaged in space.)

Speaking as someone whose job description is, more often than not, "locate and predict failure points in complex systems", it's actually not that difficult to predict where something's going to go awry and the most likely way it will fail if you have a detailed understanding of the complex system in question. Systems designed and engineered the same way tend to fail in predictable and repeatable patterns, which a good process control engineer can pin down, sometimes even before testing finishes.

And as far as I can recall, that's basically it for real energy barriers we see in screen. The Fighter Pods force field is actually a high angle of attack approach to atmosphere at high speeds throwing up a massive, nearly perpendicular bow shock wave.

Quite... the "dialogue shields" are, in some cases, just aberrations in dialogue and in a few instances are apparently some writer tossing in generic sci-fi dialogue for the sake of sounding dramatic. For the sake of the latter, some ships may have the Star Trek-style shields which are invisible until they're hit and seem to collapse fairly easily.

[ZINO]

nice!!

[ESalter]

As for what ever happens to 21st Mars Division on final (faster than usual) approach, She cold have started the process as they were reentering, and since there were likely no capital ships left, no one would have been able to both determine that something weird was goign on, and have sufficient power to punch a signal through reentry ionization. Presuming of course UEEF mecha (or any smallcraft and vessels in the Robotech setting entirely) suffer form such communication black outs while reentering. I don't recall, but would assume they do because I like to be conservative that way.

As for how she did it? Power Equal unto a Goddess helps to explain it here, and the Regis is well known for being able to manipulate energy on a vast scale. If this take a lot of her attention and available power, then the 3rd Reclamation Force's use of Shadow Cloaking Systems, coupled to planet side attacks on her sensor towers, could explain why she didn't try it a third time (presuming this also happened to the 10th Mars Division of course). If she can't see them coming by sensing their use of protoculture, she can't "focus" in time to make it happen rapidly enough to matter, and individual smaller landing units would be coming in all over the place, meaning she simply can't determine where and when to deploy the field. So unto a goddess in truth too, not quite there yet!

In terms of the show's timeline, the (human) characters don't meet the Regis until the very end, and then her presence and abilities are very obvious and spectacular. I don't think that fits with her invisibly destroying the space fleet at the very beginning. Certainly, it's possible for a god-like being to do such a thing; I just don't find it narratively satisfying.

[ZINO]

shoddy??? Made of or containing inferior material??? thought the UEEF state of the art BUT EPIC FAIL

[ShadowLogan]

he crews of the ships report unusually high temps during reentry, and failing shields. (I can't recall of they said shields or heat shields, but I believe its the latter, as I am not a fan of shields in Robotech, except in a few small cases we see on screen.)

Dialogue from Marlene (IINM) in the show describes them as "reserve thermal energy shield(s)" (sorry I forget if it was plural, I know they are described this way from other discussions).

[glitterboy2098]

the commander of Marlene's Horizon-T tells scott that "we must start our final approach through earth's atmosphere, our thermal energy sheilds are already seriously drained"
implying that the shields might only work against heat and/or energy weapons only. (personally i'd say that they are good against lasers, particle beams, and plasma, which are all the forms by which 'heat' is transferred in space. photons, radiation, and hot matter.)

it's also worth pointing out that Scott remarks that the Horizon shuttle "wasn't built for this kind of gravitational pull" as they are entering the atmosphere, right after one of the crew remarks that they were starting to feel the pull of earth's gravity.
which is odd.


Prelude establishes that the UEEF starships have trek-style forcefields. apparently conformal too. or at least, the SDF-3 did before its refit. (Lisa orders the shields to be raised right as Edward's shadowfighters open fire on the bridge)

though since we never see what these can do, we don't know if they are some form of improved barrier system, or something totally different.

[ESalter]

The crews of the ships report unusually high temps during reentry, and failing shields. (I can't recall of they said shields or heat shields, but I believe its the latter, as I am not a fan of shields in Robotech, except in a few small cases we see on screen.) Those same crews had centuries of scientifically garnered data on Earth's atmospheric make up and characteristics. If they pushed harder to get into the atmosphere to escape the Invid in orbit, then they did it with the understanding that their gear would allow them, to survive.

Just because they knew they were pushing their ship past its guaranteed safety limit, doesn't mean they knew exactly when it would fail. They may have hoped it would land safely, even if it was wrecked in the process (as was Scott's fighter).

That gear failed them, and they seemed surprised that such was the case.

I admit it's been awhile since I've seen "Invid Invasion"; how ? Are you sure it wasn't just or , for instance?

There is no explanation why that occurred at any stage.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't Scott say something about Marlene's ship going too fast?

I don't present this as canon of course, but I do point to it as an indication of something going on behinds the scenes. It makes more sense then the UEEF having shoddy manufacturing...

I wouldn't say that, just that the crew was forced to push its ship beyond its expected limit. (Also, there's the possibility of battle damage.)

...or the crews of those shuttles opting to rage quit the fight and deny the individual Invid the joy of killing them instead.

Well, I assume delivering their troops to the ground was the Horizons' whole point.

[ESalter]

Not one ship or VF, but all of them. Many are destroyed on screen, but some, like Scott's, push through, and are wrecked en route during a maneuver that most must have presumed would be risky but possible. Looking at a Horizon-T, if it breaks, you don't dead stick land it, you fall out of the sky like a lead brick...

I'm not sure; Rand got his Cyclone from a wrecked Horizon, didn't he?

...so pushing that far = rage quit.

I'm really not that familiar with the term. The way I see it, the fleet suffered unexpectedly heavy resistance in orbit and accelerated their reentry; and their ships, as it turned out, couldn't survive the additional stress. I don't see how the phrase "rage quit" fits.

The must have presumed reentry was possible, and when it failed, the panic in their voices makes one think they can't understand why, too fast or not.

I'm not convinced that follows; it's possible to be frightened without being confused.

This may not be canon (it may not be entirely supportable either), but when you put it together with others ideas (such as having Scott's crew making an attempted head capping assault against Reflex Point and the Regis in specific, and not trying to free Earth with 2 Ikazuchi carriers, a dozen or so Garfish's, and a group of fifty or so Horizon-Ts) then it makes sense. They were there to blitz the defense, only the goddess like Regis pulled a fast one and their gear proved insufficient for whatever it was they ended up running into, so that no assault on Reflex Point ever had a chance to even start.

I won't deny it's conceivable in-universe; I just don't find it narratively satisfying: it takes something that ought to be (and usually is) spectacular — a goddess taking a hand in events — and uses it as an off-screen explanation for what is IMO a relatively minor discrepancy. (Using a deity to dot an "i," so to speak.)

[Seto Kaiba]

Missed that particular reference actually, but I would hand wave it away as referring to actual metal shields that slip up into place to cover that massive windshield there...though admittedly, that massive windshield appears to bounce the attack with no discernible damage. Either that "window" is uber tough [...]

"Super tough" windows are easily supportable through most of Robotech... just look at how much punishment it took to crack a VF-1 canopy in the Macross Saga, or even the one on the Cat's Eye (which had to be hit with an asteroid and then subjected to compression force from a mecha whose actuators generate a combined output of over 17,000hp, and even then it took a second or two before it broke).

Ya know what? The whole "no force fields thing is starting to get a bit more difficult to defend, isn't it?

Not really, it's still the most sensible explanation... going with it just requires that you occasionally accept that nonsense dialogue is sometimes thrown in for no clear reason.

Looking at a Horizon-T, if it breaks, you don't dead stick land it, you fall out of the sky like a lead brick, so pushing that far = rage quit. The must have presumed reentry was possible, and when it failed, the panic in their voices makes one think they can't understand why, too fast or not.

Actually, the loss of Scott's group seems to be largely because they rushed reentry. There are plenty of examples in that saga of ships that made it down intact enough that the equipment they were carrying survived in perfect condition (that would be how Rand finds an entire cargo bay's worth of functioning Cyclones).

This may not be canon (it may not be entirely supportable either), but when you put it together with others ideas (such as having Scott's crew making an attempted head capping assault against Reflex Point and the Regis in specific, and not trying to free Earth with 2 Ikazuchi carriers, a dozen or so Garfish's, and a group of fifty or so Horizon-Ts)

's why it makes a lot more sense to go with the OSM's numbers for that same scene, which suggest a force that was much larger, comprising some ten carriers, around eighty escorts, and over a hundred drop shuttles, of which we only see a part. OSM-ly, they were still going for a head-on attack on Reflex Point, just with an army they felt was big enough to carry the field completely.