Is there anyone who can defeat Atlantis?

[Cyber-Knight]

Every time I look at the population figures for Atlantis and see all those massive numbers of MDC beings populating it, I have a hard time imagining any single force on Rifts Earth being capable of defeating Atlantis. But then again, I'm not as caught up on Rifts as many of you are, so I thought I'd ask this question.

Is there any single military force on Rifts Earth which is capable of defeating Atlantis?

I'm sure if everyone teamed up they could defeat Atlantis, but is there any single nation, organization, or entity which can do the job? The NGR, the Coalition, etc?

[cornholioprime]

Every time I look at the population figures for Atlantis and see all those massive numbers of MDC beings populating it, I have a hard time imagining any single force on Rifts Earth being capable of defeating Atlantis. But then again, I'm not as caught up on Rifts as many of you are, so I thought I'd ask this question.

Is there any single military force on Rifts Earth which is capable of defeating Atlantis?

I'm sure if everyone teamed up they could defeat Atlantis, but is there any single nation, organization, or entity which can do the job? The NGR, the Coalition, etc?

The combined might of the Vampire Kingdoms MIGHT be able to beat the Splugorth....

.....IF Splynncryth doesn't call in any reinforcements.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Every time I look at the population figures for Atlantis and see all those massive numbers of MDC beings populating it, I have a hard time imagining any single force on Rifts Earth being capable of defeating Atlantis. But then again, I'm not as caught up on Rifts as many of you are, so I thought I'd ask this question.

Is there any single military force on Rifts Earth which is capable of defeating Atlantis?

I'm sure if everyone teamed up they could defeat Atlantis, but is there any single nation, organization, or entity which can do the job? The NGR, the Coalition, etc?

Short answer: "No"

Slightly Longer answer: "No. Likely even if they all DID team up"

A bit longer: Atlantis is a 'outpost' for the one sploog that runs it. he has 3 PLANETS full of back up military that he can rift in if need be. The only reason he hasn't taken over Rifts earth is a some what shadowy "Deal" From the bigger powers that be in the Megaverse. Basicly they want Rifts earth to be the crossroads as it is, so the sploog has Atlantis and is told not to go too much from there or the "Bigger powers" Will goosh him like a slug. So the Sploog uses his other planets for the most part and uses Atlantis as the inter-dimensional cross roads that it is. he goes out and sets up little places around the world a bit but doesn't just 'Take' earth, due to those "Even bigger powers" Telling him not to.

So while he has about 3 planets worth of military he could bring to bare if need be, he has no need to.

Is there "SOMETHING" out there that could beat him? Sure. There's bigger powers in some of the Dimension books. But what ever rather nebulous "Bigger powers" that have told the big ol tentacle eyeball that earth can't be 'HIS' have kept him from just taking it.

[Killer Cyborg]

Every time I look at the population figures for Atlantis and see all those massive numbers of MDC beings populating it, I have a hard time imagining any single force on Rifts Earth being capable of defeating Atlantis. But then again, I'm not as caught up on Rifts as many of you are, so I thought I'd ask this question.

Is there any single military force on Rifts Earth which is capable of defeating Atlantis?

I'm sure if everyone teamed up they could defeat Atlantis, but is there any single nation, organization, or entity which can do the job? The NGR, the Coalition, etc?

Short answer: "No"

Slightly Longer answer: "No. Likely even if they all DID team up"

A bit longer: Atlantis is a 'outpost' for the one sploog that runs it. he has 3 PLANETS full of back up military that he can rift in if need be. The only reason he hasn't taken over Rifts earth is a some what shadowy "Deal" From the bigger powers that be in the Megaverse. Basicly they want Rifts earth to be the crossroads as it is, so the sploog has Atlantis and is told not to go too much from there or the "Bigger powers" Will goosh him like a slug. So the Sploog uses his other planets for the most part and uses Atlantis as the inter-dimensional cross roads that it is. he goes out and sets up little places around the world a bit but doesn't just 'Take' earth, due to those "Even bigger powers" Telling him not to.

So while he has about 3 planets worth of military he could bring to bare if need be, he has no need to.

Is there "SOMETHING" out there that could beat him? Sure. There's bigger powers in some of the Dimension books. But what ever rather nebulous "Bigger powers" that have told the big ol tentacle eyeball that earth can't be 'HIS' have kept him from just taking it.

Yup.
The best shot anybody on Rifts Earth would have would be to try to subvert/destroy Atlantis from within.
And good luck with that.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Or somehow send it back to whatever dimensional holding area it spent 10,000 plus years in before the Cataclysm. Good luck doing that, though.

[Cyber-Knight]

So who ARE these biggers powers keeping Splynncryth in check? Are they named?

[gaby]

Well CCW may have a chance if a fleet of 100 ships Rifted in.

[Nether]

Pretty much chiming in with the Chorus here and saying that Atlantis is untouchable.

Like Pepsi said, even if all of earth forces united it still wouldnt be enough to push splynn off Atlantis.

If you could lock down Atlantis from any dimensional teleportation so they couldnt call in the hordes of super forces, then i could see a large alliance factions (extremely unlikely in its own right) teamed togather maybe having a chance.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

So who ARE these biggers powers keeping Splynncryth in check? Are they named?

It's not so much "bigger powers" as competitors of roughly equal power with armies of minions of their own. There's no angry hand of god waiting to come down on Splyncryth if it steps too far out of line. Instead, there are dozens of gods and god-like beings and other alien intelligences and ancient dragons, plus any number of other dangerous beings, with vested interests in keeping Rifts Earth out of any single creature's control, and if it looked like someone or something was about to seize the throne, so to speak, they'd be willing to go to war to prevent it. The kind of war such beings wage against one another would leave the planet useless to anyone, if a planet remained at all.

Thus, there is something resembling peace.

[Mercdog]

A bit longer: Atlantis is a 'outpost' for the one sploog that runs it. he has 3 PLANETS full of back up military that he can rift in if need be. The only reason he hasn't taken over Rifts earth is a some what shadowy "Deal" From the bigger powers that be in the Megaverse. Basicly they want Rifts earth to be the crossroads as it is, so the sploog has Atlantis and is told not to go too much from there or the "Bigger powers" Will goosh him like a slug. So the Sploog uses his other planets for the most part and uses Atlantis as the inter-dimensional cross roads that it is. he goes out and sets up little places around the world a bit but doesn't just 'Take' earth, due to those "Even bigger powers" Telling him not to.

That, and he's making more than enough profit marketing all the conflicts going on as 'Reality TV'.

[Nether]

So who ARE these biggers powers keeping Splynncryth in check? Are they named?

It's not so much "bigger powers" as competitors of roughly equal power with armies of minions of their own. There's no angry hand of god waiting to come down on Splyncryth if it steps too far out of line. Instead, there are dozens of gods and god-like beings and other alien intelligences and ancient dragons, plus any number of other dangerous beings, with vested interests in keeping Rifts Earth out of any single creature's control, and if it looked like someone or something was about to seize the throne, so to speak, they'd be willing to go to war to prevent it. The kind of war such beings wage against one another would leave the planet useless to anyone, if a planet remained at all.

Thus, there is something resembling peace.

Do you have any source for this? Just as it is hard to believe that such an "alliance" seems highly unlikely let alone someone telling splynn, hey if you expand past Atlantis we will all come for you!

It makes far more sense in my mind that there would be a much more powerful entity such as the CCW, Kreegor, or the stronger splugorth lords laying down the threat. I believe in one of the dimension books for Centre it mentions how Splynn's empire is actually very small compared to the other big splugorth lords. Dont quote me on that as been a while sinse i have read it.

The other thing, is what are these other "big" forces using Earth for that is so imortant, because for what I recall is the big forces of the galaxy have no real presence nor 'use' for Rifts Earth nor using it for anything, or at least none i have seen published. The vamp int realize the value and as such they 'are' there on the earth because of it, splynn is there but who else is?

Truly it feels like it is just writers fiat to just have Atlantis there but not conqueor the earth as it could do it very fast at a whim if they wanted to.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

So who ARE these biggers powers keeping Splynncryth in check? Are they named?

It's not so much "bigger powers" as competitors of roughly equal power with armies of minions of their own. There's no angry hand of god waiting to come down on Splyncryth if it steps too far out of line. Instead, there are dozens of gods and god-like beings and other alien intelligences and ancient dragons, plus any number of other dangerous beings, with vested interests in keeping Rifts Earth out of any single creature's control, and if it looked like someone or something was about to seize the throne, so to speak, they'd be willing to go to war to prevent it. The kind of war such beings wage against one another would leave the planet useless to anyone, if a planet remained at all.

Thus, there is something resembling peace.

Do you have any source for this? Just as it is hard to believe that such an "alliance" seems highly unlikely let alone someone telling splynn, hey if you expand past Atlantis we will all come for you!

It's stated plainly in the Atlantis WB and referenced in other books. There is no alliance, just many with a vested self-interest to maintain a certain status quo.

It makes far more sense in my mind that there would be a much more powerful entity such as the CCW, Kreegor, or the stronger splugorth lords laying down the threat. I believe in one of the dimension books for Centre it mentions how Splynn's empire is actually very small compared to the other big splugorth lords. Dont quote me on that as been a while sinse i have read it.

The CCW and the Kreeghor aren't just around the galactic corner from Rifts Earth. They're not even in the same dimension. There aren't that many Splugorth roaming around and they generally don't make war on one another. In fact, Atlantis is a choice vacation spot for other Splugorth who come to enjoy Splynncryth's hospitality. Short of the Old Ones themselves and a very few gods, there are no "much more powerful" entities in the Palladium setting that could dictate terms to an alien intelligence in the manner you are suggesting.

The other thing, is what are these other "big" forces using Earth for that is so imortant, because for what I recall is the big forces of the galaxy have no real presence nor 'use' for Rifts Earth nor using it for anything, or at least none i have seen published. The vamp int realize the value and as such they 'are' there on the earth because of it, splynn is there but who else is?

It's an extra-dimensional gateway to the rest of the Megaverse and a huge churning furnace of mystical energy that indiscriminately empowers supernatural beings and creatures of magic, dragons and gods and alien intelligences included. Lizard Mages, for example, are enhanced to such an extent on Rifts Earth that their lifespan increases from a few centuries to thousands of years, not to mention the huge boost in durability.

Truly it feels like it is just writers fiat to just have Atlantis there but not conqueor the earth as it could do it very fast at a whim if they wanted to.

It may have seemed like writer's fiat very early on in the game, but the multitudes of books that followed the release of WB 2: Atlantis have firmly established enough powerful beings in the setting to justify Splynncryth's reasoning for not attempting to conquer the entire planet.

[Nether]

So who ARE these biggers powers keeping Splynncryth in check? Are they named?

It's not so much "bigger powers" as competitors of roughly equal power with armies of minions of their own. There's no angry hand of god waiting to come down on Splyncryth if it steps too far out of line. Instead, there are dozens of gods and god-like beings and other alien intelligences and ancient dragons, plus any number of other dangerous beings, with vested interests in keeping Rifts Earth out of any single creature's control, and if it looked like someone or something was about to seize the throne, so to speak, they'd be willing to go to war to prevent it. The kind of war such beings wage against one another would leave the planet useless to anyone, if a planet remained at all.

Thus, there is something resembling peace.

Do you have any source for this? Just as it is hard to believe that such an "alliance" seems highly unlikely let alone someone telling splynn, hey if you expand past Atlantis we will all come for you!

It's stated plainly in the Atlantis WB and referenced in other books. There is no alliance, just many with a vested self-interest to maintain a certain status quo.

It makes far more sense in my mind that there would be a much more powerful entity such as the CCW, Kreegor, or the stronger splugorth lords laying down the threat. I believe in one of the dimension books for Centre it mentions how Splynn's empire is actually very small compared to the other big splugorth lords. Dont quote me on that as been a while sinse i have read it.

The CCW and the Kreeghor aren't just around the galactic corner from Rifts Earth. They're not even in the same dimension. There aren't that many Splugorth roaming around and they generally don't make war on one another. In fact, Atlantis is a choice vacation spot for other Splugorth who come to enjoy Splynncryth's hospitality. Short of the Old Ones themselves and a very few gods, there are no "much more powerful" entities in the Palladium setting that could dictate terms to an alien intelligence in the manner you are suggesting.

The other thing, is what are these other "big" forces using Earth for that is so imortant, because for what I recall is the big forces of the galaxy have no real presence nor 'use' for Rifts Earth nor using it for anything, or at least none i have seen published. The vamp int realize the value and as such they 'are' there on the earth because of it, splynn is there but who else is?

It's an extra-dimensional gateway to the rest of the Megaverse and a huge churning furnace of mystical energy that indiscriminately empowers supernatural beings and creatures of magic, dragons and gods and alien intelligences included. Lizard Mages, for example, are enhanced to such an extent on Rifts Earth that their lifespan increases from a few centuries to thousands of years, not to mention the huge boost in durability.

Truly it feels like it is just writers fiat to just have Atlantis there but not conqueor the earth as it could do it very fast at a whim if they wanted to.

It may have seemed like writer's fiat very early on in the game, but the multitudes of books that followed the release of WB 2: Atlantis have firmly established enough powerful beings in the setting to justify Splynncryth's reasoning for not attempting to conquer the entire planet.

Well it comes down to what you think would happen, and in this case i dont think any powerful groups in total strong enough to displace Splynn are going to form an alliance and war if he takes more than Atlantis.

Vamp Intel make sense, as they are posited on Rifts Earth with a large investment, but they are about the only ones I can think of atm. All these other "mysterious" defenders of a neutral Earth dont have much invested or anything to lose if Earth became Splynn controlled.

As for the lizard mages ext that are stronger on Rifts Earth, I agree with you but the problem is they are not a large powerful force, and if Kazaa is any example they have no vested interest in fighting it out. I would even harken a guess that all the lizard mages on Earth togather would be no threat at all to Splynn.

The pro human factions atm are most likely to ally áka' NGR and CS are starting to work togather, And NGR has made contact with Nemo. Japan i suspect will start coming into the fold as well as possibly some from England and South America / China.

I am thinking that you are NOT going to dedicate to a war unless you have something of value in the place your going to war to, ie. money, resources or strategic location. And if you are warring for one of those three reasons then you would also have a definite presence there, not just sitting back and looking at it in your microscope of sorts.

If you have to form an alliance to be successful at war, then you only form the alliance with some ways to guarantee you get your piece of the pie, and when talking about less than scrupulous powers it makes it much much more difficult for that to happen as trust is a major issue for them.

When i mentioned the CCW or Kreegor, i only meant as an example but not necessarily them, just people of that power level, as it would make a whole lot more sense if one power that was stronger than Splynn just said, 'hey if you try to take Earth i'm going to burn you, capisce?'. Makes far more sense than some unplausible alliance of villians that isnt really formed.

I am also referring to being on the offensive vs being the defender.

Anyway, this is just my view anyway, so we can just disagree.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well it comes down to what you think would happen, and in this case i dont think any powerful groups in total strong enough to displace Splynn are going to form an alliance and war if he takes more than Atlantis.

As he pointed out, there IS no alliance in the equation.
It's simply that there's no real way to hold the entire planet, or even a really large chunk of it. There are too many powers claiming too many areas, with new ones potentially popping up at any time.

Atlantis, p. 18
Splynncryth realizes that it would be virtually impossible to conquer and hold the Earth as part of his territory. There are just too many powerful being who covet the planet's rich mystic and dimensional resources and too many dimensional fronts to adequately defend. Instead, it was much easier to seize a tragic location like Atlantis and keep it. This has given him access to all of the resources that he desires and helps to further establish the concept that Earth is a free zone to be conquered and dominated in pieces held by many different races, not just by one. The power and prestige of the Splugorth should go a long way to promote this idea, but Splynncryth realizes that a number of potential world and dimensional conquerors will challenge his control of that continent.

[Sureshot]

No imo nothing can defeat Atlantis. When you have a military force that combines high tech, magic, psionics, MDC creatures in large numbers it is a unstoppable threat. I never liked the passage KC quoted above in his latst post. Just comes across as way for Splugorth not to conquer the planet. When he could do that. He can and could and imo hold it fairly easily. He has access to a entire planet of Kydians. Unless "world and dimensional conquerors" has access to the same resources and not everyone does it's safe to assume that Splugorth is pretty unstoppable. When I firs tread the Atlantis book for the first time my first thoughts were "how the hell has Atlantis not conquered Rifts earth". Then I saw the passage and realized Kevin had written Splugorth as not a conqueror but as businessman. For the sole purpose of making sure Atlantios does not conquer earth.

[Faceless Dude]

The best chance I can see is to quite literally nuke it from orbit. Raining fire down from the orbital communities would stand the best chance I'd think.

[Sureshot]

The best chance I can see is to quite literally nuke it from orbit. Raining fire down from the orbital communities would stand the best chance I'd think.

Which woul work if they had no Kittani. As soon as that happens the Kittani and any othe splugorth slave race with access to a vehicle/power armor/ robot that can travel in space flys up and blows the hell out of anyone trying to use the above tactic.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

A mulka could do it, and have a fun time do it, and he has trouble I'm sure 10 mulkas would be a nightmare for Atlantis

[Sureshot]

A mulka could do it, and have a fun time do it, and he has trouble I'm sure 10 mulkas would be a nightmare for Atlantis

Quite possible if the Splugorth Motherships don't blow them into pieces with a missle barrage or the Kittani fleet. Posters seem to forget the sheer amount of resouces, firepower that Splugorth has access to. It is imo quite considerable and second to none on Rifts Earth.

[Killer Cyborg]

No imo nothing can defeat Atlantis. When you have a military force that combines high tech, magic, psionics, MDC creatures in large numbers it is a unstoppable threat. I never liked the passage KC quoted above in his latst post. Just comes across as way for Splugorth not to conquer the planet. When he could do that. He can and could and imo hold it fairly easily. He has access to a entire planet of Kydians. Unless "world and dimensional conquerors" has access to the same resources and not everyone does it's safe to assume that Splugorth is pretty unstoppable. When I firs tread the Atlantis book for the first time my first thoughts were "how the hell has Atlantis not conquered Rifts earth". Then I saw the passage and realized Kevin had written Splugorth as not a conqueror but as businessman. For the sole purpose of making sure Atlantios does not conquer earth.

Powers that have shown up on Rifts Earth that could pose a threat to Atlantis:
Mechanoids (if they get access to full numbers)
Neuron
Various Gods
Cult of Dragonwright
Megaversal Legion
Arkhon (if they get reinforcements)
ARCHIE (but only as long as he has the element of surprise)
Vampire Kingdoms

Anybody else?
Lord of the Deep?
Nxla?
Giant frog in Australia?


Regardless, here's a passage from Naruni Wave 2, p. 7
However, Rifts Earth was a special case, and the Naruni had to be careful. Far too many dimensional powers such as the Splugorth, True Atlanteans, various gods, dragons and other (many more than people realize), had taken a keen interest in keeping Rifts Earth an open and free travel zone, unclaimed by any of the dimensional superpowers. This meant powerful forces frowned on Naruni Enterprises exacting revenge on the Coalition by backing the Tolkeen forces and providing them with weapons of mass destruction at discount prices. The powers that be, including the Naruni Board of Directors, wanted to maintain the status quo...
...After all, Naruni Enterprises had informally agreed with the other trans-dimensional powers that no single group would try to conquer or subvert the people of Rifts Earth...
...Rifts Earth holds little value as a venue to market Naruni equipment, at least compared to Naruni Enterprises' many other holdings and operations, so in the grand scheme to things, the incident is barely a blip on the radar screen.

The Splugorth are ONE inter-dimensional super-power.
But there are plenty more out there, mostly un-named, and a lot of them have their own interests in Rifts Earth.

[Killer Cyborg]

A mulka could do it, and have a fun time do it, and he has trouble I'm sure 10 mulkas would be a nightmare for Atlantis

Quite possible if the Splugorth Motherships don't blow them into pieces with a missle barrage or the Kittani fleet. Posters seem to forget the sheer amount of resouces, firepower that Splugorth has access to. It is imo quite considerable and second to none on Rifts Earth.

Mulkas are pretty much impervious to all known forms of damage and harm.
Rifts Manhunters, p. C5
No known force can stop a Mulka. They are impervious to all weapons, including blasters, swords and explosives. No material can bind them; they appear when and where they wish. Magic directed against the Mulka always misfires- with amusing or appalling results...
...Every race has developed small but vocal anti-Mulka organizations.

P. C6
The Mulka are completely impervious to all manners of magic, psionics, and physical force. They have limitless abilities, and are completely unpredictable.

But no Mulka are known to be on Rifts Earth, and considering the fallout with Myrmidon Press, they probably never will show up.

[DhAkael]

A great olde one.
The lord of the deep.
Another Sploogie.
The Prometheans.
The Cosmo-knight Conclave of 100 stars.
Dyval & Hades decide to fight the final round of their lover's quarrel in Splynn.

The CS? Do not make me or the rest of the Megaverse laugh...no seriously, it would crack reality more if we all laughed at once at that idiotic notion.
Traix? Read previous.
Lazlo of the Fed o' Magic? -snrk- Ummm. No.

[DhAkael]

A mulka could do it, and have a fun time do it, and he has trouble I'm sure 10 mulkas would be a nightmare for Atlantis

Quite possible if the Splugorth Motherships don't blow them into pieces with a missle barrage or the Kittani fleet. Posters seem to forget the sheer amount of resouces, firepower that Splugorth has access to. It is imo quite considerable and second to none on Rifts Earth.

Mulkas are non-canon since KS decided to tell Myrmidon Press where to go.

[Sureshot]

That's all well and good except to pose a real threat imo they would have to have access to the same resources of Atlantis or more. Splugorth has the advantage of a numbers game as well as having access to technology, magic, psionics and MDC creatures. Unless the faction that attacks him has that and more than good luck. I will concede that Atlantis could be defeated. Except the opponent has to not only outnumber the Atlantean forces he has to have everything better than what splugorth has imo.

Mechanoids not happening unless they get the right amount if numbers and even than Splugorth and th Kittani are not going to sit by and let those alien xenophonic psychos just build up.

Neuron? No sure where that is from

Cult of Dragonwright possibly if they could get the sufficent numers and possibly purge the evil influnces within the Cult.

Megaversal Legion could do some damage. Too few in number and imo would be sucide unless they had the right numbers.

Arkon see above.

Archie Too insane, unpredicatable too far away and not enough numbers. Plus a weakness imo when fighting magic and psionics using enemies.

Vampire kingdoms do some damage definately except for both factions being seperated by a large body of water that vampires cannot cross unaided.

KC I get your point it's poosibly just imo highly improbable.

Lord of the Deep, Nxla Great old ones. Except for the old ones which no one wants around they could do some damage. As long as they had the numbers and training to combat a combined magic/psionic/high tech force.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

A mulka could do it, and have a fun time do it, and he has trouble I'm sure 10 mulkas would be a nightmare for Atlantis

Quite possible if the Splugorth Motherships don't blow them into pieces with a missle barrage or the Kittani fleet. Posters seem to forget the sheer amount of resouces, firepower that Splugorth has access to. It is imo quite considerable and second to none on Rifts Earth.

Mulkas are non-canon since KS decided to tell Myrmidon Press where to go.

Any official word saying its non-canon?

[Killer Cyborg]

That's all well and good except to pose a real threat imo they would have to have access to the same resources of Atlantis or more. Splugorth has the advantage of a numbers game as well as having access to technology, magic, psionics and MDC creatures. Unless the faction that attacks him has that and more than good luck. I will concede that Atlantis could be defeated. Except the opponent has to not only outnumber the Atlantean forces he has to have everything better than what splugorth has imo.

Mechanoids not happening unless they get the right amount if numbers and even than Splugorth and th Kittani are not going to sit by and let those alien xenophonic psychos just build up.

And because you and I can read the books, we know how many Mechanoids there are on Rifts Earth.
The Splugorth don't have the same luxury. All they know is that there were some, that those guys are HUGE, planet-eating trouble, and that they appear to not be a problem currently.

Neuron? No sure where that is from

Auto-corrected version of Naruni.

Cult of Dragonwright possibly if they could get the sufficent numers and possibly purge the evil influnces within the Cult.

The Splugorth have a borderline worship of dragons.
The cult wouldn't need as many numbers as most factions would; the Splugorth wouldn't want to engage.

Megaversal Legion could do some damage. Too few in number and imo would be sucide unless they had the right numbers.

Agreed, but they'd take a chunk out.

Arkon see above.

The ones on Rifts Earth wouldn't be much of a problem, but I don't think that we're ever given total numbers of the Arkhon race in general, just that they're space conquerers.
They might have more planets under their collective thrall than the Splugorth do.
And, again, the Splugorth can't read the books; they don't know exactly how many there are, or how cut-off they are.

Archie Too insane, unpredicatable too far away and not enough numbers. Plus a weakness imo when fighting magic and psionics using enemies.

Agreed on the magic part.
As for numbers, I agree only as far as his current numbers go... but he can beef up his army pretty much on demand, to unknown extents.
Although it's not his army that the Splugorth have to fear, really, it's guerrilla warfare, intelligence games, and other stuff.

Vampire kingdoms do some damage definately except for both factions being seperated by a large body of water that vampires cannot cross unaided.

For that reason and others, I nearly didn't even mention them.
But did you know that every Vampire Intelligence knows ALL summoning spells?
Along with Teleport: Superior (with an average range of 5,400 miles)?
For that matter, they all know Dimensional Portal, so they could potentially attack Atlantis from bases in other dimensions.

(Plus, apparently, they can sing really well now. For what that's worth. )

KC I get your point it's poosibly just imo highly improbable.

What's improbable, exactly?
That Splyncryth wouldn't be able to conquer and hold a planet full of interdimensional portals, angry gods, demons, dragons, and interdimensional conquerers who all want a piece of the action?
Why?

[Pepsi Jedi]

"In theory" The Naruni "Could" do it. They've repo'd entire planets and stuff. But as pointed out there's safeguards to prevent them from taking Rifts earth.

If the head sploog got the Company mad enough, they might take out "Atlantis" but it'd be replacing one alien for another.... and the 'other' is an inter-dimensional arms company. Not exactly an upgrade.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

When we refer to gods, I think some people are missing out on the fact that many of them have billions upon billions of fanatical worshipers on other planets throughout the Megaverse. The Splugorth aren't the only creatures with armies to put into play.

Also, almost every god has a few very potent powers no extra-dimensional conquering alien intelligence wants to be on the wrong end of. All it takes is for one of them to get his or her panties in a bunch and ol' Splynncryth could find itself banished from the dimension containing Rifts Earth for centuries, or longer if the god decides to actively maintain the effect. Or the god could decide to destroy all of the Splugorth's holdings on Atlantis and cause the entire continent to quake until not a single building remained standing, every pyramid was rubble, and volcanoes poured lava over the whole broken mess.

[ffranceschi]

"In theory" The Naruni "Could" do it. They've repo'd entire planets and stuff. But as pointed out there's safeguards to prevent them from taking Rifts earth.

If the head sploog got the Company mad enough, they might take out "Atlantis" but it'd be replacing one alien for another.... and the 'other' is an inter-dimensional arms company. Not exactly an upgrade.

NE don't involve themselves in Wars! Never!

I think the one who could engage the Splugorth is The Trans-Galactic Empire (The Kreeghor). They were ex-slaves, they hate The Splugorth and they have the military power to go for it: they only need to move one of their six Imperial Fleets (including one of their Doombringer dreadnoughts!) into Earth Orbit and wipe Atlantis out of existence (The Killer Sattelites, The Arkhons and the other powers in orbit will be destroyed too if they don't run and hide). My comment is based on the excellent book "Fleets of the Three Galaxies".

[flatline]

The Player Characters.

The right player characters with the right plan could do it.

Now, finding that perfect combination of characters, plan, GM, and players is a more difficult question.

--flatline

[ffranceschi]

The Player Characters.

The right player characters with the right plan could do it.

Now, finding that perfect combination of characters, plan, GM, and players is a more difficult question.

--flatline

No way. We are talking about defeating Atlantis, not killing Splynncryth. The Players Characters could possible attempt an assassination plan or something like that but that's it.

[flatline]

The Player Characters.

The right player characters with the right plan could do it.

Now, finding that perfect combination of characters, plan, GM, and players is a more difficult question.

--flatline

No way. We are talking about defeating Atlantis, not killing Splynncryth. The Players Characters could possible attempt an assassination plan or something like that but that's it.

So there's no way the player characters could convince some of Splyn's forces to turn against their master or broker an alliance with larger forces to tie up Splyn's forces on his other planets while another force attacks Atlantis directly?

If done right, the player characters never need to participate directly in combat with Atlantis forces unless they choose to.

Player characters are capable of far more than just combat, you know.

And yes, I realize I'm talking about a truly EPIC campaign to pull this off. But that's exactly the kind of campaign some of us prefer.

--flatline

[Sureshot]

So there's no way the player characters could convince some of Splyn's forces to turn against their master or broker an alliance with larger forces to tie up Splyn's forces on his other planets while another force attacks Atlantis directly?

If done right, the player characters never need to participate directly in combat with Atlantis forces unless they choose to.

Player characters are capable of far more than just combat, you know.

And yes, I realize I'm talking about a truly EPIC campaign to pull this off. But that's exactly the kind of campaign some of us prefer.

--flatline

They might convince a few and with luck poosibly a quarter of ther Atlantean forces to defeat. A majority never going to happen. For one why would they listen to the pc in the first place. The pc imo would be looked at as enemues from the start. It's going to take some really good negociations to convince some of them. I doubt "help us kill splugorth it's the right thing to do" is going to appeal to most if any of the Atlantean forces.

[Giant2005]

You don't need to defeat Splynnie's army to defeat Atlantis.
He is a businessman - if you devalue the neighbourhood he won't want to be there and will leave of his own accord.

Of course sending Splynnie packing is a very bad idea. His presence is a deterrent for far nastier things coming to Earth and causing mass destruction.

[flatline]

So there's no way the player characters could convince some of Splyn's forces to turn against their master or broker an alliance with larger forces to tie up Splyn's forces on his other planets while another force attacks Atlantis directly?

If done right, the player characters never need to participate directly in combat with Atlantis forces unless they choose to.

Player characters are capable of far more than just combat, you know.

And yes, I realize I'm talking about a truly EPIC campaign to pull this off. But that's exactly the kind of campaign some of us prefer.

--flatline

They might convince a few and with luck poosibly a quarter of ther Atlantean forces to defeat. A majority never going to happen. For one why would they listen to the pc in the first place. The pc imo would be looked at as enemues from the start. It's going to take some really good negociations to convince some of them. I doubt "help us kill splugorth it's the right thing to do" is going to appeal to most if any of the Atlantean forces.

If you don't think a particular approach will work, then try something else. Or ask yourself why you think it won't work and search for solutions to the problems you identify. This is how plans get refined. Creating a workable plan is an iterative process.

--flatline

[Sureshot]

It's as I said it's all a numbers game. Imo Atlantis has too many troops with the ability to make to take them anywhere they need to be. While gods may have the numbers do they have the infrastrucutre let alone the rsource to move troops from pace to place. Some do and some don't. With a force who have mastered mixing tech. magic and psioncis in combat. Can they be defeated yes. The odds are against many opponents imo.

[flatline]

It's as I said it's all a numbers game. Imo Atlantis has too many troops with the ability to make to take them anywhere they need to be. While gods may have the numbers do they have the infrastrucutre let alone the rsource to move troops from pace to place. Some do and some don't. With a force who have mastered mixing tech. magic and psioncis in combat. Can they be defeated yes. The odds are against many opponents imo.

Let the players discover problems and, hopefully, solutions through the course of the campaign.

Atlantis is a hard nut to crack and so any plan to break Atlantis has lots of serious problems that it needs to address.

But it's not impossible.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

It's as I said it's all a numbers game. Imo Atlantis has too many troops with the ability to make to take them anywhere they need to be. While gods may have the numbers do they have the infrastrucutre let alone the rsource to move troops from pace to place. Some do and some don't. With a force who have mastered mixing tech. magic and psioncis in combat. Can they be defeated yes. The odds are against many opponents imo.

Let the players discover problems and, hopefully, solutions through the course of the campaign.

Atlantis is a hard nut to crack and so any plan to break Atlantis has lots of serious problems that it needs to address.

But it's not impossible.

--flatline

What you seem to be missing, is that Atlantis isn't full of sullen oppressed troops that want to rebel against the big ol eyeball. Most of the troops there want to be there. Atlantis is like working in a resort at the Bahama's or Hawaii with the mall of America there. It's a vacation spot for those monsters with the Dimensional market in the middle. Hunting preserves and what not. It's not like they WANT to rebel.

It'd be like going to the Bahama's or Hawaii and trying to convince well paid workers there that Paradise is soo bad we gotta kill the boss that pays them so well. They're not only going to NOT want to ruin a good thing, they're going to actively resist your plan.

[flatline]

What you seem to be missing, is that Atlantis isn't full of sullen oppressed troops that want to rebel against the big ol eyeball.

I'm not missing that at all. If your plan depends on converting some of Splyn's troops against him, then the fact that most of his troops are happy and loyal is going to be a problem you'll need to address somehow.

Look, I'm not advocating any particular plan. I'm just saying that it's possible to come up with a plan. There is no problem that, in the absence of constraints, can't be solved.

Especially in a setting where you can violate natural laws.

--flatline

[Tor]

Every time I look at the population figures for Atlantis and see all those massive numbers of MDC beings populating it, I have a hard time imagining any single force on Rifts Earth being capable of defeating Atlantis. But then again, I'm not as caught up on Rifts as many of you are, so I thought I'd ask this question.

Is there any single military force on Rifts Earth which is capable of defeating Atlantis?

I'm sure if everyone teamed up they could defeat Atlantis, but is there any single nation, organization, or entity which can do the job? The NGR, the Coalition, etc?

I know a pair of trustworthy ladies who would be willing to help with this:
images/avatars/gallery/Rifts_England/RWB3-88a.jpg
images/avatars/gallery/Rifts_England/RWB3-90.jpg

Then they will help us build a new world that is just plain full of chivalry.

It's a bright future.

Short of the Old Ones themselves and a very few gods, there are no "much more powerful" entities in the Palladium setting that could dictate terms to an alien intelligence in the manner you are suggesting

Don't forget alien intelligentsia such as this guy's master.

He can even make dragons (I think even ancients) his minions.

Sorry Styphathal

nothing can defeat Atlantis.

It's not so much a matter of defeating the continent so much as conquering it.

One need not even destroy the Splugorth empire, merely co-opt its control.

The best chance I can see is to quite literally nuke it from orbit. Raining fire down from the orbital communities would stand the best chance I'd think.

Odds are Splynny would have a lot of clairvoyants who would rage far in advance at the idea, giving him time to prep some strategically placed horizantal 'Impenetrable Wall of Force' spells.

All the weird defenses Tolkeen had against nukes (rift holes to swallow the missles, etc) odds are Splynn also has. I'd expect their magic levels to be equal or greater to anything in North America.

Keep in mind that places like the City of Brass are mere sidekicks to Atlantis, and they managed to stay off CS radar altogether, unlike Tolkeen.

Powers that have shown up on Rifts Earth that could pose a threat to Atlantis:
Mechanoids (if they get access to full numbers)

Odds are they'd love the Mxla or whatever those things are called. Nor would they have any beef with Splynn himself. So he'd just have to hide all his humanoids (Kydians, High Lords) or perhaps modify them to non-humanoid (spider lower-torso bio-wizardry?) to avoid that onslought. Could be cheaper than actually fighting.

Cult of Dragonwright

Plus comme the pantheon of dragon gods they worship. How impressive is the cult itself?

Naruni
Megaversal Legion
Arkhon (if they get reinforcements)
ARCHIE (but only as long as he has the element of surprise)

Their lack of magic would be their doom. Plus the first two would only try if someone paid them to do it.

Vampire Kingdoms

I love that sourcebook but considering the ease with which the Splugorth could mass-produce TW water pistols, vamps are kind of a joke.

Possibly they could make a nice dent if you included the Strigoi variants in Shadows of Light though. These guys are mostly pests for badly maintained slave pens.

Lord of the Deep?

I love the guy but his main advantage is everyone but a few probably think he's a mindless bunch of tentacles eating stuff. His major advantage (besides a durable body) is that he's very hard to get at. His ability to merge lifeforms is pretty cool and over time could pose a threat, but his more competent minions (such as the Pneuma Biforms) have a nasty habit of going rogue on him. What's he left with, Monster Naut'Yll and mermaids?

Nxla?

Heck yeah.

Giant frog in Australia?

Have yet to get this book. Doesn't he just drink a lot of water?

Mulkas are non-canon since KS decided to tell Myrmidon Press where to go.

Screw that, if it's printed under the label it's canon forever to me. Next thing we'll be hearing there's no TMNT, or no Diablo: Hellfire.

"In theory" The Naruni "Could" do it. They've repo'd entire planets and stuff.

Not all planets are equal =/ Probably some silly CCW border rock.

When we refer to gods, I think some people are missing out on the fact that many of them have billions upon billions of fanatical worshipers on other planets throughout the Megaverse. The Splugorth aren't the only creatures with armies to put into play.

Unless otherwise indicated I'm led to believe these are simple SDC societies, who are probably not very heavily developed in tech or magic due to their reliance on priestly wonders.

Also, almost every god has a few very potent powers no extra-dimensional conquering alien intelligence wants to be on the wrong end of. All it takes is for one of them to get his or her panties in a bunch and ol' Splynncryth could find itself banished from the dimension containing Rifts Earth for centuries, or longer if the god decides to actively maintain the effect.

One thing we should keep in mind, in regard to Alien Intelligences on Rifts Earth. Most of their stats were published before Dragons and Gods came out, before we saw the inclusion of deific powers.

The basic stats for alien intelligences given in D*G differ from the basic stats given in say, Rifts Conversion Book 1. They all have deific powers too, for example.

It wouldn't at all be odd if such powers were similarly given to major AIs with lots of worshippers. I'd expect Nxla to have them, for example, as well as many of the AIs who impersonate gods in Pantheons. The gods in Pantheons also don't have deific abilities listed, yet we might be led to assume they have deific powers.

The Egyptian Gods, for example, don't have deific powers in Rifts Africa, but are listed with them in D&G. These gods are listed as interacting with the ones in Pantheons, odds are if they weren't on an equal playing field, it might've been brought up.

(Speaking of which, has Thoth and co noticed the odd similarities between the Norse on Earth and the Northern Gods on Palladium?)

Anyway, ignoring the probability that the Splugorth might likely also have deific abilities themselves, being banished from earth wouldn't even be that huge a deal for Splynny. He could simply send his many essence fragments there. Odds are he probably does this a lot of the time anyway, since it would allow him to walk his cities in person (so to speak) and carry on multiple tasks simultaneously, while his true form was safely on one of his three fully conquered planets.

Or the god could decide to destroy all of the Splugorth's holdings on Atlantis and cause the entire continent to quake until not a single building remained standing, every pyramid was rubble, and volcanoes poured lava over the whole broken mess.

Heck for all we know, Splynn has a 'Sky Land' plan in reserve (see also: Motor City) where all his cities and buildings can float.

Yes Bidet. They float. They ALL float Bidet.

Atlantis isn't full of sullen oppressed troops that want to rebel against the big ol eyeball. Most of the troops there want to be there. It's not like they WANT to rebel.

What they want doesn't matter to Nxla

[nilgravity]

Is there any nation with a lot of underwater mining power? Maybe we could sink Atlantis again. Otherwise it sounds like the only way to do it would be to attack the planets Splyn can draw forces from while also assaulting Atlantis. Even if a coordinated effort could pull this off no one would trust the other factions not to double cross them once the fighting is over.

[flatline]

Is there any nation with a lot of underwater mining power? Maybe we could sink Atlantis again. Otherwise it sounds like the only way to do it would be to attack the planets Splyn can draw forces from while also assaulting Atlantis. Even if a coordinated effort could pull this off no one would trust the other factions not to double cross them once the fighting is over.

Or find a way to prevent him from rifting in reinforcements.
Or make Atlantis no longer profitable so that it's not worth the effort to keep.
Or convince some other power to threaten Splyn's other planets so that he doesn't dare pull forces away from them
Or cover Atlantis with the nanobots from Splicers

Lots of ideas. None of them easy, but none of them impossible. Some of them might even work.

I wonder how much money you would have to offer Splyn to have him willingly sell Atlantis to you?

--flatline

[Nether]

No imo nothing can defeat Atlantis. When you have a military force that combines high tech, magic, psionics, MDC creatures in large numbers it is a unstoppable threat. I never liked the passage KC quoted above in his latst post. Just comes across as way for Splugorth not to conquer the planet. When he could do that. He can and could and imo hold it fairly easily. He has access to a entire planet of Kydians. Unless "world and dimensional conquerors" has access to the same resources and not everyone does it's safe to assume that Splugorth is pretty unstoppable. When I firs tread the Atlantis book for the first time my first thoughts were "how the hell has Atlantis not conquered Rifts earth". Then I saw the passage and realized Kevin had written Splugorth as not a conqueror but as businessman. For the sole purpose of making sure Atlantios does not conquer earth.

Powers that have shown up on Rifts Earth that could pose a threat to Atlantis:
Mechanoids (if they get access to full numbers)
Neuron
Various Gods
Cult of Dragonwright
Megaversal Legion
Arkhon (if they get reinforcements)
ARCHIE (but only as long as he has the element of surprise)
Vampire Kingdoms

Anybody else?
Lord of the Deep?
Nxla?
Giant frog in Australia?


Regardless, here's a passage from Naruni Wave 2, p. 7
However, Rifts Earth was a special case, and the Naruni had to be careful. Far too many dimensional powers such as the Splugorth, True Atlanteans, various gods, dragons and other (many more than people realize), had taken a keen interest in keeping Rifts Earth an open and free travel zone, unclaimed by any of the dimensional superpowers. This meant powerful forces frowned on Naruni Enterprises exacting revenge on the Coalition by backing the Tolkeen forces and providing them with weapons of mass destruction at discount prices. The powers that be, including the Naruni Board of Directors, wanted to maintain the status quo...
...After all, Naruni Enterprises had informally agreed with the other trans-dimensional powers that no single group would try to conquer or subvert the people of Rifts Earth...
...Rifts Earth holds little value as a venue to market Naruni equipment, at least compared to Naruni Enterprises' many other holdings and operations, so in the grand scheme to things, the incident is barely a blip on the radar screen.

The Splugorth are ONE inter-dimensional super-power.
But there are plenty more out there, mostly un-named, and a lot of them have their own interests in Rifts Earth.

This quote supports what I have been saying more than not. This suggests there is some kind of loose alliance of sorts that is 'protecting' the Earth, as Naruni had informally agreed to the alliances 'law' that Earth is off limits. This suggests there is a 'force' out there that is stronger than Splynn or Naruni by themselves that they would not want to mess with them, so they avoid any confronting actions ala, taking the Earth.

Now for the explanation of Naruni not supporting Tolkeen, I completely call writers fiat there and BS. There is no way this protector alliance should care if Naruni put supported one Earth faction over the other, There is just no valid reason for it.

So I know, you will prolly tell me that it is canon, the quote is right there. Your right it is, but canon doesnt mean it has to make sense or that the writers are right (they even admit mistakes happen), like some other canon aspects many on these boards complain about and some rightfully so. And besides, if these guys are ok with Splynn having Atlantis, then there should be no problems if Naruni wanted to have a small permanent location.

Edit: You actually have the opposite after a moments thought, opposite in that this protector alliance of a neutral Earth would if anything prefer the major human factions be kept low, because out of all the factions of Earth they are the ones that will want their home back and since there is a few strong human empires that most definately remember the old (NN, NGR, Japan, China, Russia, CS, Achilles?, TA's, Lemurians, space stations empire remanents though tweaked for Rifts, ext) and would be the most likely to make an alliance. I am thinking that if things keep proceeding as they have it is very likely, I mean you already have NGR, NN and CS working alliance and aid. If they want to keep Earth free, then making sure these groups never ally and try to take their home back would be pretty important, especially sinse NN could prolly scorched earth most of the planet with their nuke compliment alone.

[ffranceschi]

I insist: as soon as The Trans-Galactic Empire (Kreeghor) knows about RIFTS Earth (any good Atlantean could do them the favor), Splynncryth is dead! They hate the Splugorth in general, and the opportunity to deal a serious blow to them (taking out Atlantis) is just too tempting...and easy...nothing in the entire Solar System could match their firepower.

[Nether]

I insist: as soon as The Trans-Galactic Empire (Kreeghor) knows about RIFTS Earth (any good Atlantean could do them the favor), Splynncryth is dead! They hate the Splugorth in general, and the opportunity to deal a serious blow to them (taking out Atlantis) is just too tempting...and easy...nothing in the entire Solar System could match their firepower.

Well i would agree with you there, and it isnt like the Kreegor care a lot about what others say. The Spluggorth for what i remember are not an empire of unity, and the others would not lift a finger to help splynn unless he could pay them some insane cost to intervene, but i thought i read in one of the books that any Spluggorth would love to take Atlantis from Splynn. No canon quotes to back that up though as i just dont have the time to dig for it atm.

[Faceless Dude]

I insist: as soon as The Trans-Galactic Empire (Kreeghor) knows about RIFTS Earth (any good Atlantean could do them the favor), Splynncryth is dead! They hate the Splugorth in general, and the opportunity to deal a serious blow to them (taking out Atlantis) is just too tempting...and easy...nothing in the entire Solar System could match their firepower.

I'm going to set aside the fact that the Kreeghor are ruled by their own alien intelligence, who has his own plan and won't deviate from it so his minions can go feel better about their own enslavement.

How will this theoretical space fleet get here? Rifts Earth isn't in the three galaxies. It's never been said to my knowledge the distance between earth and the 3G. And I don't believe the Kreeghor have the ability to just rift a fleet where they need into go. If they did, they would be using it against targets that mean something to the empire, like the CCW or The FWC.

[Nether]

No imo nothing can defeat Atlantis. When you have a military force that combines high tech, magic, psionics, MDC creatures in large numbers it is a unstoppable threat. I never liked the passage KC quoted above in his latst post. Just comes across as way for Splugorth not to conquer the planet. When he could do that. He can and could and imo hold it fairly easily. He has access to a entire planet of Kydians. Unless "world and dimensional conquerors" has access to the same resources and not everyone does it's safe to assume that Splugorth is pretty unstoppable. When I firs tread the Atlantis book for the first time my first thoughts were "how the hell has Atlantis not conquered Rifts earth". Then I saw the passage and realized Kevin had written Splugorth as not a conqueror but as businessman. For the sole purpose of making sure Atlantios does not conquer earth.

Powers that have shown up on Rifts Earth that could pose a threat to Atlantis:
Mechanoids (if they get access to full numbers)
Neuron
Various Gods
Cult of Dragonwright
Megaversal Legion
Arkhon (if they get reinforcements)
ARCHIE (but only as long as he has the element of surprise)
Vampire Kingdoms

Anybody else?
Lord of the Deep?
Nxla?
Giant frog in Australia?


Regardless, here's a passage from Naruni Wave 2, p. 7
However, Rifts Earth was a special case, and the Naruni had to be careful. Far too many dimensional powers such as the Splugorth, True Atlanteans, various gods, dragons and other (many more than people realize), had taken a keen interest in keeping Rifts Earth an open and free travel zone, unclaimed by any of the dimensional superpowers. This meant powerful forces frowned on Naruni Enterprises exacting revenge on the Coalition by backing the Tolkeen forces and providing them with weapons of mass destruction at discount prices. The powers that be, including the Naruni Board of Directors, wanted to maintain the status quo...
...After all, Naruni Enterprises had informally agreed with the other trans-dimensional powers that no single group would try to conquer or subvert the people of Rifts Earth...
...Rifts Earth holds little value as a venue to market Naruni equipment, at least compared to Naruni Enterprises' many other holdings and operations, so in the grand scheme to things, the incident is barely a blip on the radar screen.

The Splugorth are ONE inter-dimensional super-power.
But there are plenty more out there, mostly un-named, and a lot of them have their own interests in Rifts Earth.

Now for the explanation of Naruni not supporting Tolkeen, I completely call writers fiat there and BS. There is no way this protector alliance should care if Naruni put supported one Earth faction over the other, There is just no valid reason for it.

Wait What? NE totally supported Tolkeen during the war. They even offered one of those Wrath of God destroyers at a discount.

Ah your right, I misread the quote on that part to be they didnt do it. Then as it should have been, just to bad Tolkeen didnt actually buy some of this stuff.

[Nether]

I insist: as soon as The Trans-Galactic Empire (Kreeghor) knows about RIFTS Earth (any good Atlantean could do them the favor), Splynncryth is dead! They hate the Splugorth in general, and the opportunity to deal a serious blow to them (taking out Atlantis) is just too tempting...and easy...nothing in the entire Solar System could match their firepower.

I'm going to set aside the fact that the Kreeghor are ruled by their own alien intelligence, who has his own plan and won't deviate from it so his minions can go feel better about their own enslavement.

How will this theoretical space fleet get here? Rifts Earth isn't in the three galaxies. It's never been said to my knowledge the distance between earth and the 3G. And I don't believe the Kreeghor have the ability to just rift a fleet where they need into go. If they did, they would be using it against targets that mean something to the empire, like the CCW or The FWC.

Well if the Alien Intel is aware of Earth I would think like some other Intelligences that it would want Earth. So if Kreegor 'did' go I suspect though they wouldnt stop at just taking Atlantis, they would want the planet and that would potentially be worse all around than the current status quo.

But ya it might be a bit difficult for them to get a fleet to Earth, and prolly good thing to. I am unaware of any other ways to Rifts Earth other than dimensional portals / Rifts.

[ffranceschi]

I insist: as soon as The Trans-Galactic Empire (Kreeghor) knows about RIFTS Earth (any good Atlantean could do them the favor), Splynncryth is dead! They hate the Splugorth in general, and the opportunity to deal a serious blow to them (taking out Atlantis) is just too tempting...and easy...nothing in the entire Solar System could match their firepower.

I'm going to set aside the fact that the Kreeghor are ruled by their own alien intelligence, who has his own plan and won't deviate from it so his minions can go feel better about their own enslavement.

How will this theoretical space fleet get here? Rifts Earth isn't in the three galaxies. It's never been said to my knowledge the distance between earth and the 3G. And I don't believe the Kreeghor have the ability to just rift a fleet where they need into go. If they did, they would be using it against targets that mean something to the empire, like the CCW or The FWC.

There are lots of "Beings" in the Megaverse with "Rifts capabilities". They just need to get or force one to help them. As per the distance, you are right: it's never been said.

[Nether]

Now for the explanation of Naruni not supporting Tolkeen, I completely call writers fiat there and BS. There is no way this protector alliance should care if Naruni put supported one Earth faction over the other, There is just no valid reason for it.

Wait What? NE totally supported Tolkeen during the war. They even offered one of those Wrath of God destroyers at a discount.

Ah your right, I misread the quote on that part to be they didnt do it. Then as it should have been, just to bad Tolkeen didnt actually buy some of this stuff.

They bought a lot of small arms and ammo that they could afford, but to be quite honest... I am super glad they didn't buy a destroyer, those things terrify me.

lolz, could you imagine Tolkeen with a Destroyer?
The CS would be like 'uhhh, oh chit, the hornet nest is a lot bigger than we thought' as missiles to lasers reign down on them.
That would definitely would have changed how things turned out. Heck Tolkeen could try to barter some of the CS's territory for price.
But in the end I do like the CS a lot, and would hate to see them removed.