Reshape Morphus?

[barna10]

Is there a Talent or other mechanism that allows one to reshape the Morphus? Specifically I am interested in allowing a really old Nightbane to "update" his look over the ages.

[The Dark Elf]

Not that Im aware of but what about a powerful NPC fleshsculptor?!!

[drewkitty ~..~]

Is there a Talent or other mechanism that allows one to reshape the Morphus? Specifically I am interested in allowing a really old Nightbane to "update" his look over the ages.

No talent nor mech. in cannon. (There was a web site that had some abilities to edit the morphus, but it was taken down 5-7 years ago.)

[Nightmask]

Not that Im aware of but what about a powerful NPC fleshsculptor?!!

I haven't checked recently but I think the Morphus is immune to transformation magics like those of the Fleshsculptor.

[drewkitty ~..~]

NB are immune to transformation.

Is not limited to just the morphus.
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However, there are some exceptions. Like the Astral Self talent, the Swarm-self talent, the Piecemeal talent. So it is possible for the "temporarily" reshape themselves via a talent.

[barna10]

NB are immune to transformation.

Is not limited to just the morphus.
--------------------
However, there are some exceptions. Like the Astral Self talent, the Swarm-self talent, the Piecemeal talent. So it is possible for the "temporarily" reshape themselves via a talent.

Reshape Facade, Steal Morphus...

[Jedrious]

NB are immune to transformation.

Is not limited to just the morphus.
--------------------
However, there are some exceptions. Like the Astral Self talent, the Swarm-self talent, the Piecemeal talent. So it is possible for the "temporarily" reshape themselves via a talent.

It really needs to be worded that MB are immune to transmutation "unless they willingly allow the effect"

[Tinker Dragoon]

Good ol' Wayback Machine: PPE Morphus Acquisition

[Icefalcon]

If it is a really old Nightbane, I don't see why their Morphus could not change over time to better suit the way they see themselves. Nobody knows what the powers of these Old Ones are.

[Tinker Dragoon]

That reminds me: Ancient Nightbane

[Zamion138]

If it is a really old Nightbane, I don't see why their Morphus could not change over time to better suit the way they see themselves. Nobody knows what the powers of these Old Ones are.

Speaking of old ones...... hehehe a circle of transformation created Toth out of an Old One im sure it would work on a nightbane.

[Icefalcon]

If it is a really old Nightbane, I don't see why their Morphus could not change over time to better suit the way they see themselves. Nobody knows what the powers of these Old Ones are.

Speaking of old ones...... hehehe a circle of transformation created Toth out of an Old One im sure it would work on a nightbane.

If it can do it for an Old One, I bet it could do it for a Nightbane.

[Nightmask]

If it is a really old Nightbane, I don't see why their Morphus could not change over time to better suit the way they see themselves. Nobody knows what the powers of these Old Ones are.

There's nothing to suggest or imply that's possible, if anything an old Nightbane would be long set in his ways and certainly wouldn't have a mutating or evolving Morphus to 'keep up with the times'.

[Icefalcon]

If it is a really old Nightbane, I don't see why their Morphus could not change over time to better suit the way they see themselves. Nobody knows what the powers of these Old Ones are.

There's nothing to suggest or imply that's possible, if anything an old Nightbane would be long set in his ways and certainly wouldn't have a mutating or evolving Morphus to 'keep up with the times'.

It is hard to tell what a person who has lived centuries will do. We do not live that long so we tend to take the short view on things. After about 200-300 years, they might find that their personalities or even world view shifts largely due to how much the world has changed and their relation to it. It is said several times in the book that the Morphus is in some way based on the inner core of a person. If that inner core changes, then it would stand to reason that the Morphus would change.

[Greyaxe]

Have you ever considered that the morpheus can not change an that old Nightspawn may end up getting killed because they are unable to adapt to a changed world?

[Jedrious]

Have you ever considered that the morpheus can not change an that old Nightspawn may end up getting killed because they are unable to adapt to a changed world?

No, because it's a ridiculous thought

[barna10]

Also, most of the "hints" point to the Nightbane actually being energy beings. IMO this is why they can't be transformed by others; they have no truly physical form to change. So, I would think their self-image changing would lead to their morphus (and even their facade) changing as both are really just projections of their self-image.

[Icefalcon]

Also, most of the "hints" point to the Nightbane actually being energy beings. IMO this is why they can't be transformed by others; they have no truly physical form to change. So, I would think their self-image changing would lead to their morphus (and even their facade) changing as both are really just projections of their self-image.

This is exactly my thoughts as well.

[Nightmask]

Also, most of the "hints" point to the Nightbane actually being energy beings. IMO this is why they can't be transformed by others; they have no truly physical form to change. So, I would think their self-image changing would lead to their morphus (and even their facade) changing as both are really just projections of their self-image.

This is exactly my thoughts as well.

Self-image isn't such a mutable thing, it's the core of their being. A Nightbane with a Steampunk look isn't going to have his self-image change to shiny new technology look just because 'gee I should update my look', because that's not who he is. Just as a thousand year old Adonis isn't going to end up not being one because it's a thousand years later and he 'was keeping with the times'. They'd no more have their Morphus change in some permanent fashion than they can change their facade permanently, because it's not them.

[Icefalcon]

Also, most of the "hints" point to the Nightbane actually being energy beings. IMO this is why they can't be transformed by others; they have no truly physical form to change. So, I would think their self-image changing would lead to their morphus (and even their facade) changing as both are really just projections of their self-image.

This is exactly my thoughts as well.

Self-image isn't such a mutable thing, it's the core of their being. A Nightbane with a Steampunk look isn't going to have his self-image change to shiny new technology look just because 'gee I should update my look', because that's not who he is. Just as a thousand year old Adonis isn't going to end up not being one because it's a thousand years later and he 'was keeping with the times'. They'd no more have their Morphus change in some permanent fashion than they can change their facade permanently, because it's not them.

The way you see yourself can change in as little as ten years. It has nothing to do with "keeping with the times" as you put it. What you come to believe can and will be changed by the people you interact with, especially in someone over hundreds if not thousands of years. Just look at generational differences in today's kids over when you were a kid. Do you still act the way you did ten years ago? Fifteen? Twenty? I know I do not. Twenty years ago I was a punk. That would have shown itself in my Morphus. At the age of 37, I see myself differently as I did then. That would be more than enough for the Morphus to undergo smaller changes as my self image changed until today it would be totally different then when I was 17.

[Nightmask]

Also, most of the "hints" point to the Nightbane actually being energy beings. IMO this is why they can't be transformed by others; they have no truly physical form to change. So, I would think their self-image changing would lead to their morphus (and even their facade) changing as both are really just projections of their self-image.

This is exactly my thoughts as well.

Self-image isn't such a mutable thing, it's the core of their being. A Nightbane with a Steampunk look isn't going to have his self-image change to shiny new technology look just because 'gee I should update my look', because that's not who he is. Just as a thousand year old Adonis isn't going to end up not being one because it's a thousand years later and he 'was keeping with the times'. They'd no more have their Morphus change in some permanent fashion than they can change their facade permanently, because it's not them.

The way you see yourself can change in as little as ten years. It has nothing to do with "keeping with the times" as you put it. What you come to believe can and will be changed by the people you interact with, especially in someone over hundreds if not thousands of years. Just look at generational differences in today's kids over when you were a kid. Do you still act the way you did ten years ago? Fifteen? Twenty? I know I do not. Twenty years ago I was a punk. That would have shown itself in my Morphus. At the age of 37, I see myself differently as I did then. That would be more than enough for the Morphus to undergo smaller changes as my self image changed until today it would be totally different then when I was 17.

Except Nightbane doesn't work that way, a Morphus doesn't morph and mutate as you age if it did there wouldn't be older Nightbane that look like steampunk and other archaic imagery. Because it's their body and whatever factors determined the form when the Becoming happened it's a set thing that simply doesn't change over time. Who you are to your core isn't something that changes so blithely as you suggest, even if you have some things that change about yourself in personality and behavior. The Adonis isn't going to become ugly because he's rotted inside due to the way people have behaved over the decades towards him in his perfect form, he's going to remain an Adonis.

[Icefalcon]

Have you seen rules in canon that say the Morphus NEVER changes? If you have, let me know the page number. It says they are immune to transmutation magic. It never says the Morphus NEVER changes.

I had a conversation with Warwolf at the Open House. He hinted to me that more information about the ancient Nightbane might show up in a later book. He mentioned that some of the powers they might have would be totally different from things that were available to the average Nightbane. If that is so, what makes you think it is NOT possible for the Morphus to ever change?

[Tor]

Is there a Talent or other mechanism that allows one to reshape the Morphus? Specifically I am interested in allowing a really old Nightbane to "update" his look over the ages.

As someone brought up Reshape Facade and Borrow Morphus, you'd have to invent a new power based on those two I guess.

a circle of transformation created Toth out of an Old One im sure it would work on a nightbane.

Why?

Were the old ones inherently immune to magical transformations as the Nightbane were?

For all we know, the Old Ones may have enjoyed transformations and did it willingly all the time, ugly bulbous sacks of flesh that they otherwise were. We've no reason to assume they resisted it, save perhaps a generic resistance to all unwilled magic.

If it can do it for an Old One, I bet it could do it for a Nightbane.

Not really. Some powerful creatures are more prone to transforming than less powerful ones.

Dragons for example, do it by default, and are usually stronger than say, True Atlanteans, who share Nightbanes' immunity to transformation.

That reminds me: Ancient Nightbane

Interesting

For every century of life that passes an "ancient" Nightbane is allowed a roll on the following table to determine if any new abilities or strength have resulted from his advanced years. Add a cumulative 1% to the roll for each century of life that has passed.

The cumulative 1% thing seems a bit broken to me though, because that means once a Nightbane passes 10 000 years, they'd only ever roll free talents. Perhaps the bonus should cap out at 70%, just to guarantee they don't get 'nothing'? There aren't any apparent advantages to having a bonus over 70 anyway.

Also I think there should be a ruling for how things work once you pass 100. I'd say once that happens, you subtract 30 from the number until you get a result on the table. Or make that 'once you pass 99' for those with all talents.

So say you were a 10 000 year old night bane and you roll 52, and yuor age boosts that to 152. Minus 30 gives you 122, still off the table. Subtract it again and you get 92, which gives you a New Stigmata.

Alternatively, perhaps people with extremely high bonuses could trade any bonus over 70 to give them an additional roll per century. So if I was 20 000 years old, rather than +200 to a roll (pointless) I could get +70 on 1 roll, spend 100 of my bonus to get a new roll, and then get the remaining +30 on that additional roll.

This would give Nightbane the benefit of age in not rolling 'none' while still not skewing the stats in favour of getting new talents over the other age-based benefits.

Also if a nightbane has ALL talents, they should reroll any results that say they get a free one or one at half cost.

Alternatively: if they roll a free talent and had bought a talent for PPE in the past, they could get that PPE they spent back instead. Or half of the PPE if they roll the half cost thing.

[Zamion138]

a circle of transformation created Toth out of an Old One im sure it would work on a nightbane.

Why?

Were the old ones inherently immune to magical transformations as the Nightbane were?

For all we know, the Old Ones may have enjoyed transformations and did it willingly all the time, ugly bulbous sacks of flesh that they otherwise were. We've no reason to assume they resisted it, save perhaps a generic resistance to all unwilled magic.

If it can do it for an Old One, I bet it could do it for a Nightbane.

Not really. Some powerful creatures are more prone to transforming than less powerful ones.

Dragons for example, do it by default, and are usually stronger than say, True Atlanteans, who share Nightbanes' immunity to transformation.

.

the old ones though are not just some stronger supernatrual, they are with out a dought the most powerfull creatures ever, they created alot of the races, they created most of the magics, they are to put it biblivly the alpha and the omega, that wich was and is for all time.
besides that circle magic is never refrenced or used out side of PF (ok never is strong word) so it not something that they would bring up in nightspawn.

but for someone like toth or his super powered version xy to be changed, some one thats very name is used as one of the key "power words" to be changed against his will i think a lowly nightspawn would be too. Also defic miricles of changing race would also work to change them into something else, they are gods and the old ones were the creators of gods and alien intel's. So thats what im basing my thoughts on.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Xy was not transformed against its will and it wasn't forced into that Circle, it merely did not know of the Circle's true effects.

The Old Ones were not immune to transformation and regularly made use of Power Circles to transform themselves into other races or even other alignments for sheer amusement.

[Nightmask]

Xy was not transformed against its will and it wasn't forced into that Circle, it merely did not know of the Circle's true effects.

Being tricked into something is still having something done against your will. If someone knows you don't drink but says 'here have this trust me it's non-alcoholic' when it's pure grain alcohol and you drink it you against your will have consumed alcohol even if you accepted it because you thought it wasn't alcoholic. Your will was subverted by denying you knowledge of the truth, as one doesn't have to be pushed into the pit to have something be against their will.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Xy was not transformed against its will and it wasn't forced into that Circle, it merely did not know of the Circle's true effects.

Being tricked into something is still having something done against your will. If someone knows you don't drink but says 'here have this trust me it's non-alcoholic' when it's pure grain alcohol and you drink it you against your will have consumed alcohol even if you accepted it because you thought it wasn't alcoholic. Your will was subverted by denying you knowledge of the truth, as one doesn't have to be pushed into the pit to have something be against their will.

Getting a bit off topic.

[Tor]

Xy was not transformed against its will and it wasn't forced into that Circle, it merely did not know of the Circle's true effects.

Is this described in the Old Ones sourcebook or something? From the limited info I have on Xy via Rifts Africa, PRPG, PFRPG2nd, D&G, CB1, I don't think it was mentioned.

The Old Ones were not immune to transformation and regularly made use of Power Circles to transform themselves into other races or even other alignments for sheer amusement.

Changing forms I can take for granted, but alignments? That's a bit iffy, does it specifically say that anywhere? One's alignment is your worldview and personality, can't imagine they'd want to change that unless it could be guaranteed to be temporary.

[Zamion138]

Xy was not transformed against its will and it wasn't forced into that Circle, it merely did not know of the Circle's true effects.

Is this described in the Old Ones sourcebook or something? From the limited info I have on Xy via Rifts Africa, PRPG, PFRPG2nd, D&G, CB1, I don't think it was mentioned.

The Old Ones were not immune to transformation and regularly made use of Power Circles to transform themselves into other races or even other alignments for sheer amusement.

Changing forms I can take for granted, but alignments? That's a bit iffy, does it specifically say that anywhere? One's alignment is your worldview and personality, can't imagine they'd want to change that unless it could be guaranteed to be temporary.

No the old ones made a magical circle it was during the time of a 1000 magics and chaos its ultra powerfull magic that can transform gods....it can and does switch your alinment, it took xy from being an unspeakable evil to a god of light and knowledge

[Tor]

it took xy from being an unspeakable evil to a god of light and knowledge

Or so he'd have you think.

I don't trust a guy who can just copy your OCC without your permission just because you worship him a little bit. That just seems dangerous to me.