Triax 2 success or failure?

[keir451]

I recently got my hands on the new Triax 2 and I find my self & my guts out at some of the concepts printed there.
But before I begin I just have a couple of questions;
How did Triax/ NGR find Nemo?
Why did the NGR president negotiate a treaty w/ a ship Captain instead of the President?
Who assassinated the previous NGR president?
Was that issue ever resolved?

Ok, now on to the meat of it; The time line was extremely interesting even if I doubt some of the content, the map provided was basically of no use (the first one in Triax 1 was better), the weapons are OK as they are, but my real concern is over some of the robots & power armor.
First up is this joke of a unit called the "Fat boy GB", "Fat Boy", it looks like an illfated attempt to cross Humpty Dumpty w/ backwards canted legs. Stupid isn't the word for it, tho' ridiculous just might work. I can easilly see the CS soldiers laughing their @$$3$ off over this design; CS soldiers upon veiwing the "Fat Boy" *general laughter*, "What are you laughing at soldier?!"
"Sir! Nothing, Sir! I was just wondering when the fat lady is gonna sing, Sir!"
"Are you suggesting that the cream of the NGR Pa force looks like a Fat Lady from a circus, Soldier?!" *slight grin creeping across his face beneath his visor*
Can you imagine CS High commands reaction? ROTFLMAO would be Karl & Josephs reply.
Free Quebec would be insulted at this absolute travesty of their venerable and honorable power amor.

Next up is, apparently, the NGR's attempt at a SAMAS w/ avian like "wings". Yes ladies and gentlemen it seems the NGR is trying to duplicate the "Harpy" made by the Black Market (sans vibro-blade feathers).
We also have the NGR's attempt at a flying GB. Wait didn't we already see a better version of this back in Free Quebec? I believe it was called a "Silver Wolf"?
Then there's this other rip off of a NG Samson unit (from a Rifter) called the "Butterfly".
I'm also a little iffy on why the NGR is building Power Armor for Juicers?
Some of the artwork for the vehicles was just disgusting (I'll append pages later for reference) but whoever this guy is who makes everything look like a Zentraedi art reject has got to go.
The humanoid robots look kinda cheesy, excessively "Robotoid", like something out of a "D" rated Sci-Fi movie. If the NGR & Triax can produce robots good enough to fool Gargoyles then there is no reason they couldn't give their domestic 'Bots a bit of a face lift. I'm not asking for full on Asimov 'Humaniform' 'bots here but, GODS, you could have made them more esthetically pleasing.

[Sureshot]

Tell us how you you really feel keir451. While I like the book I too in the end felt somewhat dissapointed. I wanted more world information and less toys but thats me. I was dissapointed that D-bees took out the president of the NGR. True D-bees are treated much better but damn can they never get a break. I would have prefereded a human supremist faction take him out instead. As for the art yeah a lot of it bothered me to.

[keir451]

I'm baaack , Ok On the question of the New Navy it states in Underseas that "These two powerhouses have never formally met..."
and tho' it ends with the statement that "At some point, the New Navy may form an alliance with the NGR ... for the moment it simply watches, makes assessments and waits." So while it is (theoretically) possible that the New Navy and the NGR would form an alliance there was no way the NGR could contact them to begin with.

Another question; Why is it unlawful for civilians to possess MD vehicles in the NGR? Are there crimes associated with these vehicles?
Why does the NGR have "growing realtions" w/ Free Quebec? They've had relations for nearly a decade how else did Triax get the GB tech that Free Quebec hasn't shared w/ anyone else?
One complaint on general weapons; the TX-SL13 Ultra Sniper Rifle, here is Triax the best of the best (next to Japan) in light weight MD materials yet they have sniper gun that weighs more than the ATL-7 and does LESS damage? It even weighs more than the I-11 Long Gun and still does LESS damage!!
How can the Earth Lifter (which weighs a whopping 1,700 tons) mange to lift 190,000 tons? The XM-288 weighs 1,000 tons but can only carry an extra 1,000 tons.
Artwork; the artwork on pages 176,180,184 & 191 are just ,well, disgusting. They look nothing like ANY Triax art to come before.
That "winged" unit I mentioned, it's called the "War Eagle" has LESS armor than the FQ Violator SAMAS and weighs over 100lbs more?
I'll stop now as I could go on for several pages, in the end I am extremely disappointed in this book and feel that it was quite literally a waste of my money and I'd like a refund.
P.S. I've been playing Rifts for the past 21 yrs and until the past year or so I've always enjoyed the game and the books, but these recent ones, starting w/Fleets and now Triax 2 have me seriously reconsidering buying anymore Palladium products and reccommending to my friends that they do the same.

[DhAkael]

The last book that actualy was worthwhile?
Bizzarely enough, the Shemarrian Nations.
Well, and the 'Dimensional Outbreak" but yeah...basicly I've missed about a dozen or so books just cuz
A) the artwork blew (and I am very visually oriented)
B) the artwork blew (read above)
C) Retcons and illogical plot developments that make no sense, go against everything already esteblished and if they ARE "LOGICAL" developments...there's no A to B to C progression. It just Jumps from A to W or further with no explanation or backstory. (Re; Nemo & NGR talking to each other.

Truth be known?
I've developed so much house material and gone sooooo far beyond anything that PBooks has put out that, seriously, it'll take most of the writers contributing a decade to catch up.
And yes that IS my ego talking *bows* but it's justified ego

[Dog_O_War]

How can the Earth Lifter (which weighs a whopping 1,700 tons) mange to lift 190,000 tons?

It's made of material that is 100 times stronger than conventional stuff; logic would dictate then that it could handle 100 times the lifting stress, or somewhere in the realm of 170,000 Lbs of it's own weight. 190,000 is pretty close, and actually, I'm surprised it cannot lift more.

[keir451]

How can the Earth Lifter (which weighs a whopping 1,700 tons) mange to lift 190,000 tons?

It's made of material that is 100 times stronger than conventional stuff; logic would dictate then that it could handle 100 times the lifting stress, or somewhere in the realm of 170,000 Lbs of it's own weight. 190,000 is pretty close, and actually, I'm surprised it cannot lift more.

There's a difference between pounds and tons Dog_O_War, a big difference. Just because the material is 100 times stronger doesn't mean it has the POWER to lift and carry that much tonnage. Could it HOLD that much, possibly, but carry it halfway across Germany to the Alps? Not a chance in hell. Y'know unless Triax has secretly developed anti grav tech.

[Rimmer]

Just outta curiosity, the old X-1000 Devastater had a main gun doing 1D6x10 MD, has this been updated at all ?

[csbioborg]

One complaint on general weapons; the TX-SL13 Ultra Sniper Rifle, here is Triax the best of the best (next to Japan) in light weight MD materials yet they have sniper gun that weighs more than the ATL-7 and does LESS damage? It even weighs more than the I-11 Long Gun and still does LESS damage!!

and somehow has enough kickback to give characters with a supernatural strength penalties! which raises the question... why would a nation as advanced as triax design a laser weapon with such an inherent design flaw?? considering how there are multiple articles throughout the books explicitly stating laser weaponry has no kickback... hmm answer me that one

Dead Boy proved that lasers producing that much power would have to have kickback through the power of math

[keir451]

Gbw/wingsTo touch upon the Devastors damaage, the gun does 1d6x10 for a "low powered blast" and a whopping 2d6x10 for a full power blast.
For a 58ft tall combat unit this damage is STILL patheically week, inother words it STILL couldn't devastate your mother in Rifts.
C'mon guys we have man portable anti tank lasers that do more damage! Hows about 1d6x100? Now THAT damage would give the unit some actual threat value.
What about this unit called the "Black Death", the book even states it as being "one of the strangest and arguably the least successful". it's supposed to be a an APC/cargo unit of some type, yet "Despite the Balck Death's firepower smaller, faster enemy forces can usually rush the X-5050, disable its weapons and tear it to pieces in a relatively short time." Funny we don't hear that about any CS gear.
So my question is "Why would Triax produce a unit that doesn't fulfill its role?".
I do wish to correct a previous statement, the FQ unit that flies is not the Silver Wolf, it is the Sidekick, which is, again, a far superior unit than a 1.5 ton flying GB w/wings.
It really is time to STOP the stupid "handwavium" wave that is currently ovetaking Palladium books and START using some realistic science and common sense.

[Braden Campbell]

It really is time to STOP the stupid "handwavium" wave that is currently ovetaking Palladium books and START using some realistic science and common sense.

Why?

Seriously, in a game setting where MAGIC is an everday occurence, and where demons and angels are walking around fighting one another, you're going to complain that a fictional, 50' tall robot isn't believeable?

We coined a phrase at the Creator's Confefrence that seems apres peau here - "game-real, not real-real". Real-real is this: the Coalition Navy destroys your secret pirate base with a volley of long-range missiles fired from over the horrizon and guided in by robotic drones. You all die. Roll up new characters. But game-real is this: the Coalition Navy launches an amphibious landing to wipe out your secret pirate base. To arms, everyone! We must defend ourselves and hope to win the day!

Now, I agree that the sensible, realistic thing to do is the first scenario. But how much fun is that? Same with giant robots and such. If you get too concerned with what should be able to instantly destroy what, and how much 'bot X would really be able to lift, then you're not going to have any kind of fun playing this game at all.

It's all good man... just enjoy the ride.

[keir451]

It really is time to STOP the stupid "handwavium" wave that is currently ovetaking Palladium books and START using some realistic science and common sense.

Why?

Seriously, in a game setting where MAGIC is an everday occurence, and where demons and angels are walking around fighting one another, you're going to complain that a fictional, 50' tall robot isn't believeable?

No, I don't have any gripes about a 50 ft tall robot I'm an old RT and Battletech fan and player, it's the LACK of thought that goes into the power of the weapons systems (and starships) and that you expect me to believe a 1.5 ton suit of power armor can fly w/out massive jet thrusters and STILL fire a weapon that REQUIRES stabilization due to recoil. Magic and psionics are completely acceptable to me, but the handwavium surrounding the technology of the game is getting stupid.
Technology is something we understand and as such should be something we should be able to expound upon easily.
My problem is that a gun for said 50 ft tall robot does as much damage as a Shemarrian railgun which is a PA class weapon.

[Nightmask]

It really is time to STOP the stupid "handwavium" wave that is currently ovetaking Palladium books and START using some realistic science and common sense.

Why?

Seriously, in a game setting where MAGIC is an everday occurence, and where demons and angels are walking around fighting one another, you're going to complain that a fictional, 50' tall robot isn't believeable?

No, I don't have any gripes about a 50 ft tall robot I'm an old RT and Battletech fan and player, it's the LACK of thought that goes into the power of the weapons systems (and starships) and that you expect me to believe a 1.5 ton suit of power armor can fly w/out massive jet thrusters and STILL fire a weapon that REQUIRES stabilization due to recoil. Magic and psionics are completely acceptable to me, but the handwavium surrounding the technology of the game is getting stupid.
Technology is something we understand and as such should be something we should be able to expound upon easily.
My problem is that a gun for said 50 ft tall robot does as much damage as a Shemarrian railgun which is a PA class weapon.

Could just simply be that for all their advanced technology they just couldn't make the gun do better damage at that size, hence looking into getting Glitter Boy tech from Quebec. Then later designs of the gun for the older, larger robot could be upgraded to deal damage equal to or better than the Glitter Boy's Boom Gun (although could be they try to keep all weapons inferior to the Boom Gun and maintain it as the elite in weapons design for Rifts).

[jaymz]

Actually Kier the Sidekick is nothing more that a glitter terrain hopper with a grenade launcher. The Flying GB (my issues with it not withstanding) is much better in a straight up fight.

I have my own issues with Triax 2 but it stems mostly around the second half of the book (all the toys) and not so much with the first half (the fluff text). I REALLY liked the fluff text (the CS being able to send 30 000 troops while in the middle of a two front war notwithstanding)

For me MOST of the robots and PA were completely unneeded. And the few that I think make sense to exist really don't make sense the way they are. many of the vehicles are pointless to me and the art.......oh gods why is Burles doing tech........the other art was "ok" at best for me.

[jaymz]

It really is time to STOP the stupid "handwavium" wave that is currently ovetaking Palladium books and START using some realistic science and common sense.

Why?

Seriously, in a game setting where MAGIC is an everday occurence, and where demons and angels are walking around fighting one another, you're going to complain that a fictional, 50' tall robot isn't believeable?

No, I don't have any gripes about a 50 ft tall robot I'm an old RT and Battletech fan and player, it's the LACK of thought that goes into the power of the weapons systems (and starships) and that you expect me to believe a 1.5 ton suit of power armor can fly w/out massive jet thrusters and STILL fire a weapon that REQUIRES stabilization due to recoil. Magic and psionics are completely acceptable to me, but the handwavium surrounding the technology of the game is getting stupid.
Technology is something we understand and as such should be something we should be able to expound upon easily.
My problem is that a gun for said 50 ft tall robot does as much damage as a Shemarrian railgun which is a PA class weapon.

Could just simply be that for all their advanced technology they just couldn't make the gun do better damage at that size, hence looking into getting Glitter Boy tech from Quebec. Then later designs of the gun for the older, larger robot could be upgraded to deal damage equal to or better than the Glitter Boy's Boom Gun (although could be they try to keep all weapons inferior to the Boom Gun and maintain it as the elite in weapons design for Rifts).

The Boomgun has been equaled surpassed by various weapons throughout the books.

[Nightmask]

It really is time to STOP the stupid "handwavium" wave that is currently ovetaking Palladium books and START using some realistic science and common sense.

Why?

Seriously, in a game setting where MAGIC is an everday occurence, and where demons and angels are walking around fighting one another, you're going to complain that a fictional, 50' tall robot isn't believeable?

No, I don't have any gripes about a 50 ft tall robot I'm an old RT and Battletech fan and player, it's the LACK of thought that goes into the power of the weapons systems (and starships) and that you expect me to believe a 1.5 ton suit of power armor can fly w/out massive jet thrusters and STILL fire a weapon that REQUIRES stabilization due to recoil. Magic and psionics are completely acceptable to me, but the handwavium surrounding the technology of the game is getting stupid.
Technology is something we understand and as such should be something we should be able to expound upon easily.
My problem is that a gun for said 50 ft tall robot does as much damage as a Shemarrian railgun which is a PA class weapon.

Could just simply be that for all their advanced technology they just couldn't make the gun do better damage at that size, hence looking into getting Glitter Boy tech from Quebec. Then later designs of the gun for the older, larger robot could be upgraded to deal damage equal to or better than the Glitter Boy's Boom Gun (although could be they try to keep all weapons inferior to the Boom Gun and maintain it as the elite in weapons design for Rifts).

The Boomgun has been equaled surpassed by various weapons throughout the books.

Was just a suggestion, I haven't got every book to know whether or not any Rifts Earth weapons were depicted as being equal to or superior to the Boom gun (of course there are off-Earth weapons like the Naruni Heavy tank that's got a far superior weapon) just seemed like a possibility.

[jaymz]

Was just a suggestion, I haven't got every book to know whether or not any Rifts Earth weapons were depicted as being equal to or superior to the Boom gun (of course there are off-Earth weapons like the Naruni Heavy tank that's got a far superior weapon) just seemed like a possibility.

Oh the boomgun is still top 5 I'd say, just saying they have had weapons that equal or surpass it is all

[azazel1024]

Actually we know that photonic energy can exert physical pressure. This is how solar sails work (and recently a couple of prototypes have demonastrated working). Also this is why satellites need thrusters and propellant for station keeping, even in GSO. Solar pressure, more from light than solar wind, causes them to slowly, but gentely get pushed from their orbit if they don't occasionally counteract the force. Its not much pressure on something like a satellite. I can probably dredge up the reference, but I think the photonic pressure on something 1m square is only on the other of something like a few micronewtons of force, but it is there. So get something really big, like a square kilometer solar sail made from ultra light weight materials and you might be able to harness a few dozen newtons of force (doesn't sound like much, but when it doesn't use propellant and you have it constantly pushing over days, even on something heavy that'll add up to a good delta V).

As for lifting power, yeah 190,000t is just a little extreme. That would be the equivellent of lifting a Nimitz class aircraft carrier with a couple of Iowa class battleships stacked on top of it.

I had some issues with the book, but honestly most of mine were stat based (some weapons doing way too little damage mostly).

[Nightmask]

Actually we know that photonic energy can exert physical pressure. This is how solar sails work (and recently a couple of prototypes have demonastrated working). Also this is why satellites need thrusters and propellant for station keeping, even in GSO. Solar pressure, more from light than solar wind, causes them to slowly, but gentely get pushed from their orbit if they don't occasionally counteract the force. Its not much pressure on something like a satellite. I can probably dredge up the reference, but I think the photonic pressure on something 1m square is only on the other of something like a few micronewtons of force, but it is there. So get something really big, like a square kilometer solar sail made from ultra light weight materials and you might be able to harness a few dozen newtons of force (doesn't sound like much, but when it doesn't use propellant and you have it constantly pushing over days, even on something heavy that'll add up to a good delta V).

As for lifting power, yeah 190,000t is just a little extreme. That would be the equivellent of lifting a Nimitz class aircraft carrier with a couple of Iowa class battleships stacked on top of it.

I had some issues with the book, but honestly most of mine were stat based (some weapons doing way too little damage mostly).

I think you're leaving out the contribution of the solar wind and the ionized particles racing across the solar system that also add to the pressure on a solar sail particularly since they tend to 'stick' imparting all of their momentum. Plus there is a huge amount of energy contained in that square kilometer surface of solar energy and the pressure is still pretty low. Likely more energy by far than contained in a condensed source like a laser so really shouldn't see any kind of recoil from laser weapons.

[The Galactus Kid]

How did Triax/ NGR find Nemo?

They have a navy and has encountered the New Navy more than once. Mainly receiving their assistance in combat situations. Nemo found THEM.

Why did the NGR president negotiate a treaty w/ a ship Captain instead of the President?

Because Nemo is the prominant NPC/Admiral of the New Navy.

Who assassinated the previous NGR president?

Gargoyles who infiltrated the NGR with the help of D-bees. Its in the book.

Was that issue ever resolved?

Yes

First up is this joke of a unit called the "Fat boy GB", "Fat Boy", it looks like an illfated attempt to cross Humpty Dumpty w/ backwards canted legs. Stupid isn't the word for it, tho' ridiculous just might work. I can easilly see the CS soldiers laughing their @$$3$ off over this design; CS soldiers upon veiwing the "Fat Boy" *general laughter*, "What are you laughing at soldier?!"
"Sir! Nothing, Sir! I was just wondering when the fat lady is gonna sing, Sir!"
"Are you suggesting that the cream of the NGR Pa force looks like a Fat Lady from a circus, Soldier?!" *slight grin creeping across his face beneath his visor*
Can you imagine CS High commands reaction? ROTFLMAO would be Karl & Josephs reply.
Free Quebec would be insulted at this absolute travesty of their venerable and honorable power amor.

Then they get shot...It may be ugly, but it does the job. Also, if you don't like the art, imagine something else.

Next up is, apparently, the NGR's attempt at a SAMAS w/ avian like "wings". Yes ladies and gentlemen it seems the NGR is trying to duplicate the "Harpy" made by the Black Market (sans vibro-blade feathers).

The War Eagle is just another support unit. If you are looking for something to compare to the SAMAS, look at the Predator 2.

We also have the NGR's attempt at a flying GB. Wait didn't we already see a better version of this back in Free Quebec? I believe it was called a "Silver Wolf"?

No. The Silver Wolf didn't fly, had less armor, and doesn't receive the Boom Gun as standard issue. I know you ammended this to be the sidekick, which again is absolutely no match fo the NGR Flying Glitterboy.

Then there's this other rip off of a NG Samson unit (from a Rifter) called the "Butterfly".

The butterfly was added in production. Just because the NG builds something doesn't mean another company won't build something similar. I think you're referring to the NG missleman or something, and that was reprinted with official stats in Merc Ops.

I'm also a little iffy on why the NGR is building Power Armor for Juicers?

I was not aware the NGR was building power armor for juicers. Page number please.

Some of the artwork for the vehicles was just disgusting (I'll append pages later for reference) but whoever this guy is who makes everything look like a Zentraedi art reject has got to go. The humanoid robots look kinda cheesy, excessively "Robotoid", like something out of a "D" rated Sci-Fi movie. If the NGR & Triax can produce robots good enough to fool Gargoyles then there is no reason they couldn't give their domestic 'Bots a bit of a face lift. I'm not asking for full on Asimov 'Humaniform' 'bots here but, GODS, you could have made them more esthetically pleasing.

Asthetics are a personal preference. I'm sorry you didn't like the art, but many people (myself included) really liked it. I think I was only disappointed with one piece in the entire book which is really unheard of for me.

Ok On the question of the New Navy it states in Underseas that "These two powerhouses have never formally met..."
and tho' it ends with the statement that "At some point, the New Navy may form an alliance with the NGR ... for the moment it simply watches, makes assessments and waits." So while it is (theoretically) possible that the New Navy and the NGR would form an alliance there was no way the NGR could contact them to begin with.

Underseas takes place approximately 105-106 P.A. Triax 2 updates the timeline to 109 P.A. Obviously this is "at some point" which was referenced. We scoured every book for reference material to make it fit, and as I said above, Nemo pretty much found THEM.

Another question; Why is it unlawful for civilians to possess MD vehicles in the NGR? Are there crimes associated with these vehicles?

Because that is the law. It would be the equivalent of someone driving around in an armored car today. The NGR to prevent crimes from being perpetrated using these vehicles by outlawing them. Of course, that doesn't stop everybody.

Why does the NGR have "growing realtions" w/ Free Quebec? They've had relations for nearly a decade how else did Triax get the GB tech that Free Quebec hasn't shared w/ anyone else?

Just because you're on good footing doesnt' mean that footing can't improve. Their relations are growing everyday. Additional contact and support, sharing of technology, etc.

One complaint on general weapons; the TX-SL13 Ultra Sniper Rifle, here is Triax the best of the best (next to Japan) in light weight MD materials yet they have sniper gun that weighs more than the ATL-7 and does LESS damage? It even weighs more than the I-11 Long Gun and still does LESS damage!!

This was modified in editing. Adjust as you see fit.

How can the Earth Lifter (which weighs a whopping 1,700 tons) mange to lift 190,000 tons? The XM-288 weighs 1,000 tons but can only carry an extra 1,000 tons.
Artwork; the artwork on pages 176,180,184 & 191 are just ,well, disgusting. They look nothing like ANY Triax art to come before.

This lifting capability is based off of the CS Sky Lifter (I think that is the one). This is pretty much a flying boxcar specifically designed to lift heavy amounts. This didn't come out of the blue.

That "winged" unit I mentioned, it's called the "War Eagle" has LESS armor than the FQ Violator SAMAS and weighs over 100lbs more?

Its a different armor. Maybe something else on the suit weighs more. Yet again, if that 100 poundss is game breaking for you, change it.

I'll stop now as I could go on for several pages, in the end I am extremely disappointed in this book and feel that it was quite literally a waste of my money and I'd like a refund.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Feel free to contact Palladium to discuss your options.

P.S. I've been playing Rifts for the past 21 yrs and until the past year or so I've always enjoyed the game and the books, but these recent ones, starting w/Fleets and now Triax 2 have me seriously reconsidering buying anymore Palladium products and reccommending to my friends that they do the same.

Again, I'm sorry you feel that way. Many people are LOVING the new releases. I know as a writer I can't please everyone all the time, and you seem to be extremely displeased. Conversely there are hundreds of others who love the product but who also provide constructive criticism. I'll consider all of your feedback and use it to help me grow as a writer, but I will also take in the hundreds of compliments from the fans that are pleased to know what I'm doing right and where I need to improve.

inconsistencies regarding NGR law and policies.

Where? What Inconsistancies? There was almost no information about the NGR legal system and laws until we wrote them.

multi-billion dollar value cyborg pilots using aircraft even a gargoyle mage can casually gut.

At range? Hardly.

The 'bots were mostly garbage, but the really face-palmingly, head-deskingly rubbish bits were the Mobile Infantry Strike Base and that abominable submersible mountain disguised as a troop transport. Those just made me want to throw the book across the room.

With the MISB, I prefer to visuallize the art of the prototype MISFIT from Midwerks. As for the NGR Undertow, the art that it was originally based off of is in Rifts underseas near the back. It is a Kevin Long piece.

Just outta curiosity, the old X-1000 Devastater had a main gun doing 1D6x10 MD, has this been updated at all ?

Yes. The new devestator can fir its main gun for 1D6x10 or 2D6x10 but has a special ability that allows it to do up to 5D6x10 on a crit. The Ion Cannon does 4D6x10.

Gbw/wingsTo touch upon the Devastors damaage, the gun does 1d6x10 for a "low powered blast" and a whopping 2d6x10 for a full power blast.

Please see my note above. Also the Devestator is a missile boat with a bunch of guns. The missile load out is kind of ridiculous.

For a 58ft tall combat unit this damage is STILL patheically week, inother words it STILL couldn't devastate your mother in Rifts.

We actually played a game at the creator conference specifically to debunk this commonly tossed around phrase. First off, I would have to ask how many of you have actually played a fully crewed devestator in game? To say that it couldn't "devestate" is a joke. The point of the game was to see how many gurgoyles and gargoyles the devestator could destroy before it went down. The players killed 26 enemies (10 gurgoyles, 14 gargoyles, a gargoyle mage and a gargoyle lord) and had only taken 200 M.D.C. interspersed between its main body and forcefield. Man that unit sucks...

It really is time to STOP the stupid "handwavium" wave that is currently ovetaking Palladium books and START using some realistic science and common sense.

Why?

Seriously, in a game setting where MAGIC is an everday occurence, and where demons and angels are walking around fighting one another, you're going to complain that a fictional, 50' tall robot isn't believeable?

THANK YOU!!! We have to use real science to explain our fictional super lasers, zombies, and fireballs? I think I'll just continue to have fun as a writer. I totally see where you're coming from, but I'm not a scientist. I'm not an engineer. In fact, if anything, I'm a musician and a theologian, but that would make for a pretty lame RPG. I just set out to have fun with what I write and make sure the fans can have a good time with it too. From most (at least 95%) of the feed back I've received, the fans love it. Heck, Hendrik here on the forums is a GERMAN LAWYER and her LOVED the portion on the NGR legal system. That meant so much to me I had HIM sign MY book.

[Nightmask]

Was just a suggestion, I haven't got every book to know whether or not any Rifts Earth weapons were depicted as being equal to or superior to the Boom gun (of course there are off-Earth weapons like the Naruni Heavy tank that's got a far superior weapon) just seemed like a possibility.

Oh the boomgun is still top 5 I'd say, just saying they have had weapons that equal or surpass it is all

Always liked the Space Glitter Boy's Particle Beam Cannon. Extra 1d10 on the damage and the same range as the Boom gun making it probably the most powerful long-ranged Particle Beam weapon that's not built into a battleship available. The rules always refer to PB weapons being limited in range as a tradeoff for their high damage potential yet the Space GB has a 2 mile range and does 4d6*10 damage, with its only limitation being its rate of fire due to the special capacitor it has only giving it 20 shots before it requires time to recharge each shot.

[DhAkael]

Okay..this has now degenrated into "I know you are but what am I territory" with writers now coming into play to toss their 2 centi-creds into the mix... I'm jammying.
Peace out and, and remember; feeding the trolls (on either side) just adds to the stink at the end of the day.

[The Galactus Kid]

Okay..this has now degenrated into "I know you are but what am I territory" with writers now coming into play to toss their 2 centi-creds into the mix... I'm jammying.
Peace out and, and remember; feeding the trolls (on either side) just adds to the stink at the end of the day.

I am just answering specific questions and addressing concerns. Many posters here also know that they can PM me specific questions about projects I've worked on if they want or need additional information, opinions, feedback or just want to tell me what they liked or didn't like. Jaymz and Keir have both done this from time to time. I'm pretty accessible.

[keir451]

@Galactus Kid; I don't NEED science to explain the materials in Rifts, but I can use science to explain the technology, super lasers, rail guns, giant robots and power armor are no longer as fictional as they used to be. Therefore I use the realistic concepts that are already present to help define the tech in Rifts.

I've never had a problem accepting magic and psionics and the truly fantastical beings in Rifts, if I had I would never have picked up the game. I have a consistant problem with the damages of the magic spells and the damage capacity of weapons systems on tanks, and the Devastator's main gun, doing equivalent damage to MAN PORTABLE WEAPONS!!!!! Even by the malleable standards of Science Fiction this is a really, really bad joke.

You don't have to be a scientist to conceive of interesting things for Rifts, I'm not a scientist, I'm just a college student who's studying Medical Imaging technology, but I can and have come up with better units than the "Fat Boy GB", or wasting armor materials on wing like structures that apparently serve no realistic purpose.

Re; Juicers, My bad I misread the info on the Juicer EBA, nonetheless Triax and the NGR DON'T use Juicer tech in their military, so there is no real reason for Triax to produce EBA for something their military doesn't use?
Re theSidekick vs the "Hell Angel", while your Hell Angel has more armor it cannot hover (listed only in "fluff text" not listed in actual stats) and is best only in a straight line run, whereas the Sidekick is DESIGNED to support the classic GB and can hover and leap about, this unit makes no sense whatsoever by the standards of the NGR military (same w/ the Fat Boy).
The GB is BEST when used as a ground unit, not as an aerial unit, as just the wings and jets are not enough to counter the recoil of the boom gun. THIS is where even high school science would help as that knowledge would (theorectically) prevent you from THIS kind of handwavium.
Again regarding Nemo, the NGR Navy while being aware of a submersible unit that saved them would not have a viable way to actually contact Nemo and,despite his rank, he still answers to the President of his country/Nation. He does NOT get to arbitrarily decide to ally w/a country they've not directly contacted for the past 200+ yrs. THAT is just common sense, not science.
In your game you may do as you wish BUT for the purpose of game system continuity, having Nemo be "suddenly contacted" by the NGR with no prior direct contact between the two does not make sense.
Re: "Imagine something else", the problem I have is due to your "work" I have to reimagine EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF PA AND ROBOT VEHICLE IN THE BOOK.
Until Fleets of the 3 Galaxies and now Triax 2 I've never had to do that to any Palladium product EVER. Minor modifications, Yes. Re-imagining an entire book? No, I've never had to do that.
Even with my differences of opinion on the content of Fleets I can still use much of the material written, this is not the case with Triax 2.
Also it IS legal for a civilian to own an armored vehicle, so long as there are no active weapons on board. I would also like to point out that due to the presence of magic it is possible for a Gargoyle mage to teleport himself and others into a city and wreck some havoc before teleporting out again. This would make me want to make sure my citizens are as well protected as possible, this (to me) extends to their vehicles. If giving my citizens MDC vehicles means they're safer then by all means do it, it's not like they can't deal w/MDC vehicles/crimes since they've had the technology for nearly 300 yrs. Therefore the law is illogical.
I wish to add that I DO understand and aprreciate the effort you put into the work you did, but I feel that this work does not fit the story as it has been presented before. I honestly cannot see the "Fat boy" as a unit that the NGR would ever produce, much less the other "GB" units.
As for handwavium, there's good handwavium (magic, psionics, angels, demons, etc.) then there's bad handwavium, the "fat boy GB", the other NGR GB units.

[The Galactus Kid]

I appreciate your post and your opinions, but I respectfully disagree on almost all points. I'm sorry that you didn't like the book. Hopefully you will enjoy future products and the art style will suit your preferences. As I said, many fans have loved the book and continue to give positive feedback, so at least some people found the information helpful an useful.

Again, I will reply to any PMs if people have specific questions that they want to ask privately. I will also continue to reply here as I am able. I will also be at GenCon if anyone wants to discuss any of my Palladium work with me in person.

[Dog_O_War]

How can the Earth Lifter (which weighs a whopping 1,700 tons) mange to lift 190,000 tons?

It's made of material that is 100 times stronger than conventional stuff; logic would dictate then that it could handle 100 times the lifting stress, or somewhere in the realm of 170,000 Lbs of it's own weight. 190,000 is pretty close, and actually, I'm surprised it cannot lift more.

There's a difference between pounds and tons Dog_O_War, a big difference. Just because the material is 100 times stronger doesn't mean it has the POWER to lift and carry that much tonnage. Could it HOLD that much, possibly, but carry it halfway across Germany to the Alps? Not a chance in hell. Y'know unless Triax has secretly developed anti grav tech.

EDIT: scratch that, it's still a tons to tons conversion.

I was also going to mention previously that the thing is comparable to a DHT, which carries less than 120 tons of vehicles and troops (I used a guesstimate of 260Lbs each for 136 fully equipped troops), which just isn't reasonable at all. Today, using conventional transport planes, you can hall upwards of 250 tons on the An-225 Mriya (wiki), and that's using out-dated conventional technology. It's more than reasonable to assume that in the future using super-future technology, we'll be able to up that amount somewhat.

I'm going to stick with my original statement that 190,000 tons is quite reasonable.

[Rimmer]

OK, the new X-1000 only does 2D6x10 MD ? Who had that particular brain fart ? and for some reason it has a secondary weapon that does 4D6x10 MD ? That's a brain fart that leaves skid marks on the inside of your hoodie.

[mumah]

@Galactus Kid; I don't NEED science to explain the materials in Rifts, but I can use science to explain the technology, super lasers, rail guns, giant robots and power armor are no longer as fictional as they used to be. Therefore I use the realistic concepts that are already present to help define the tech in Rifts.

I can assure you, these things are all still highly fictional. Sure, the mathematics is in place, even the scientific know-how, but the logistics and practical cost of building, fueling, and usage of such things make them as impractical as a submarine with screen doors. I'm not challenging you directly or even defending the book. I'm just questioning where you're drawing the line of your suspension of disbelief. I remember once discussing the movie Cloverfield with a friend. Personally, I love the flick, but I had a friend see it and he said he hated it. When asked why, he said, "It was totally unbelievable. There's no way a camera battery would last for over eight hours straight, using autofocus, zooming, nightvision and even the light was on." See, it wasn't the 300ft tall alien supermonster stomping through New York that he found unbelievable....

You don't have to be a scientist to conceive of interesting things for Rifts, I'm not a scientist, I'm just a college student who's studying Medical Imaging technology, but I can and have come up with better units than the "Fat Boy GB", or wasting armor materials on wing like structures that apparently serve no realistic purpose.

Again, this not a direct challenge. If you honestly have come up with better units or weapons or other fun RPG toys, please submit them to the Rifter. I would like to see them, even Brandon Aten and Taylor White (authors of Triax 2) would love to see what new tech you've designed and would probably admit that your designs are better. This is not me calling you out, sir. This is me just encouraging your creativity, and if your work is better than the people who have been compensated for their ideas, maybe you should be, too. Submit it to the Rifter. Share with the rest of us so that we can play with your toys, too.

P.S.
I don't mind if you rip on the art in the book. I don't have any in it.

[The Galactus Kid]

OK, the new X-1000 only does 2D6x10 MD ? Who had that particular brain fart ? and for some reason it has a secondary weapon that does 4D6x10 MD ? That's a brain fart that leaves skid marks on the inside of your hoodie.

Feel free to use 1D4x100 and 1D6x100 respectively. Personally, I think the Devestator Mk 2 is great as it is.

Please reference my above statement of the playtest where the Devestator (crewed by 4, instead of the normal 6, without any other troop support killed 26 members of the Gargoyle horde and was still raring to go.

[Nightmask]

I wonder why there'd be a problem with 'useless' winglike structures, not everyone builds things purely utilitarian and the wings could serve some aesthetic desire, maybe adding to intimidation value or a distraction as someone targets them making them not so useless due to their decoy value. Pressing people into slavery as mercenary cannon fodder isn't particularly intelligent but to the mindset of the creators of the Megaversal Legion it was the way to go instead of just selling weapons and military vehicles and bionics like Naruni Enterprises.

[The Dark Elf]

P.S. I don't mind if you rip on the art in the book. I don't have any in it.

Thats cos ur artwork wasnt even good enough to get in. It was left standing on the fence when all the other art had been picked. Your artwork owes Brandon a Taylor its lunch money...

[keir451]

I appreciate your post and your opinions, but I respectfully disagree on almost all points. I'm sorry that you didn't like the book. Hopefully you will enjoy future products and the art style will suit your preferences. As I said, many fans have loved the book and continue to give positive feedback, so at least some people found the information helpful an useful.

Again, I will reply to any PMs if people have specific questions that they want to ask privately. I will also continue to reply here as I am able. I will also be at GenCon if anyone wants to discuss any of my Palladium work with me in person.

I understand. As a writer you should believe in your product, but it seems that by not actively addressing the concerns of those who purchase your product you're essentially saying that our opinoins aren't important. If you do not at least take into consideration the desire of those of us who would like to see more "hard SF", then you are also doing yourself, as a writer, a disservice. This is/has been/will be a continuing complaint about Palladium Books in general, but esp. Rifts, as seen numerable times on these boards.

As I said I'm not a scientist, but in my time as a GM I have found, more often than not, that if I make my materials realistic as well as fantastic then my players enjoy the game more. To do this I consult with others who DO know the science behind the fiction and they help me make the fiction MORE than it was, not less.
That is why I get frustrated when I see a 58ft. tall robot having a gun that does only as much damage as many man portable weapons.
So it's a "missile platform", what about when it runs out of missiles? That's where it's secondary systems come in and they should be powerful enough to kill a Gargoyle Lord w/one shot, not nickle and dime him to death.
Unlike Mr. Campbell I am NOT a "lazy GM" I will not accept things that are "just cool".
The Fat Boy does not work because, despite its lowered center of gravity, the kick from the boom gun would either spin it around or make it flip over as its rounded shape works against it. That's the entire reason the GB had pylons AND the anti-sway thrusters, to prevent the GB from being knocked on it's back by the kick of the gun or spun around like a top.

For a unit such as the GB to be able to fly like a SAMAS requires much larger thrusters due to its greater weight, you would also need a secondary system to prevent loss of control due to the Boom gun's kick, you say that it has it, but even then they would be so massive as to take up all the space used for flight thrusters, either that or it would need whole bunches of vernier thrusters to keep it stable.
The other reason it doesn't work is that for combat in the Alps where you have mountains over 15,000 ft. in height you're going to have air drafts that would slam it into mountaiside before the pilot could react, where as the gargoyles that do fly would just let the updraft or down draft pull them away from the unit. For densely forrested areas where it cannot fly, it effectively becomes just another GB, but without the stabilizing pylons to help keep it upright it cannot use the Boom Gun properly.

While it is possible that another company/military may copy a design that works, there was no need for the NGR to produce/copy the Butterfly as their Jager Mechs were more than adequate for the job with their attachment packs.
My overall pont is don't accept somethong just because "It's cool, man!" THINK about WHY the unit works as it does and consult others with greater knowledge on the subject so you don't make gaffs like this.
Yes, I'm quite sure there are those who found your ideas neat and cool, unfortunately some of them (like Kevin himself) don't even bother to reread their own material to ensure proper continuity of rules and story plot. As some one who once pursued writing as a career it was drilled into me that the story has to be believable (it has to make sense to the readers) and you have to keep your continuity straight. If you don't have those then the story will flop.

[Rimmer]

OK, the new X-1000 only does 2D6x10 MD ? Who had that particular brain fart ? and for some reason it has a secondary weapon that does 4D6x10 MD ? That's a brain fart that leaves skid marks on the inside of your hoodie.

Feel free to use 1D4x100 and 1D6x100 respectively. Personally, I think the Devestator Mk 2 is great as it is.

Please reference my above statement of the playtest where the Devestator (crewed by 4, instead of the normal 6, without any other troop support killed 26 members of the Gargoyle horde and was still raring to go.

So a couple of guys leaning out the window with laser rifles can do more damage and you don't see the problem ? The secondary weapon does more damage than the main gun and you still don't see a problem with this ?

Couldn't Devastate your Momma indeed.

[azazel1024]

Actually we know that photonic energy can exert physical pressure. This is how solar sails work (and recently a couple of prototypes have demonastrated working). Also this is why satellites need thrusters and propellant for station keeping, even in GSO. Solar pressure, more from light than solar wind, causes them to slowly, but gentely get pushed from their orbit if they don't occasionally counteract the force. Its not much pressure on something like a satellite. I can probably dredge up the reference, but I think the photonic pressure on something 1m square is only on the other of something like a few micronewtons of force, but it is there. So get something really big, like a square kilometer solar sail made from ultra light weight materials and you might be able to harness a few dozen newtons of force (doesn't sound like much, but when it doesn't use propellant and you have it constantly pushing over days, even on something heavy that'll add up to a good delta V).

As for lifting power, yeah 190,000t is just a little extreme. That would be the equivellent of lifting a Nimitz class aircraft carrier with a couple of Iowa class battleships stacked on top of it.

I had some issues with the book, but honestly most of mine were stat based (some weapons doing way too little damage mostly).

I think you're leaving out the contribution of the solar wind and the ionized particles racing across the solar system that also add to the pressure on a solar sail particularly since they tend to 'stick' imparting all of their momentum. Plus there is a huge amount of energy contained in that square kilometer surface of solar energy and the pressure is still pretty low. Likely more energy by far than contained in a condensed source like a laser so really shouldn't see any kind of recoil from laser weapons.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that there should be significant, or even noticable recoil from any conceivable power of laser weapon. Only that scientists have empirical evidence on top of the theoretical that photonic energy imparts physical force. A kilometer of sail would be subject to approximately a gigawatt of solar energy, yet generates at most a handful of Newtons of physical thrust. This is an equivelent conversion factor of maybe 1x10^-8 being optimistic. That means any conceivable Rifts laser, even something like the super high powered ATL-7 probably wouldn't even generate enough recoil to nudge your shoulder lightly.

I believe it was mentioned in an early on post-Triax 2 thread that KS downgraded the damage of a number of weapons in the stat blocks during editing.

[Shark_Force]

OK, the new X-1000 only does 2D6x10 MD ? Who had that particular brain fart ? and for some reason it has a secondary weapon that does 4D6x10 MD ? That's a brain fart that leaves skid marks on the inside of your hoodie.

Feel free to use 1D4x100 and 1D6x100 respectively. Personally, I think the Devestator Mk 2 is great as it is.

Please reference my above statement of the playtest where the Devestator (crewed by 4, instead of the normal 6, without any other troop support killed 26 members of the Gargoyle horde and was still raring to go.

a box of missiles could also likely do the same, only it would not require a 50 foot tall robot... just a vehicle to mount it on, and access to reloads.

[The Galactus Kid]

OK, the new X-1000 only does 2D6x10 MD ? Who had that particular brain fart ? and for some reason it has a secondary weapon that does 4D6x10 MD ? That's a brain fart that leaves skid marks on the inside of your hoodie.

Feel free to use 1D4x100 and 1D6x100 respectively. Personally, I think the Devestator Mk 2 is great as it is.

Please reference my above statement of the playtest where the Devestator (crewed by 4, instead of the normal 6, without any other troop support killed 26 members of the Gargoyle horde and was still raring to go.

a box of missiles could also likely do the same, only it would not require a 50 foot tall robot... just a vehicle to mount it on, and access to reloads.

A box of missiles like the X-5000 and the X-5001 has? Yeah. They are pretty brutal. A lot of damage, that can't be dodged, and has a blast radius. The Devestator can deal out damage in droves.

[keir451]

Re Artwork; I think the artist actually has potential I just don't like theway he depicts technology w/it, I feel he's better at depicting creatures and alien ladscapes than he is at depicting technology.

@Nightmask; Certainly people do build things purely for aesthetics, but if you're a military contractor then you don't really want frills like wings that don't do anything except add armor where you don't need it. You build things that serve your purposes, the GB doesn't need those wings to fly, so there was no reason to build them.

@mumah; Fair enough. My suspension of disbelief is still alive and well or else I would have never picked up Rifts and continued playing it (as well as D&D) for the past 20 to 30 yrs respectively. I enjoyed (and still do enjoy) the GB from the RPG I like playing a mage or a psionicist, but I'm not a kid anymore, my life experiences have shaped me as they shape all of us. I still enjoy Rifts but when it comes to the technology I want more than just fluff. I want the nitty gritty down & dirty stuff,
My GM and I have a complete game setting that we would love to publish, but it works best using the Palladium system. However we are not willing to cede control over OUR product to Kevin S. just because it's HIS system. We are very concerned that he would seriously alter aspects of the setting and the technologies we present(he's done it before ) as they represent REALISTIC ranges and damages for weapons that have appeared in Rifts or RT.This setting is not for those who enjoy the recent abuses of handwavium, if you pull that kind of crap w/us your character dies thru YOUR own fault for being stupid.
If you wish to view an example of my work here's a link to a post a started 2 yrs. ago but never completed due to various things, http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=107062&p=2065867&hilit=tenryo+fleet#p2065867.
As for the technology still being fictional, it's not AS fictional as it used to be. In some cases it is actually real.

[mumah]

I was in that playtest. I was the pilot, and grinding out gargoyles like a spent cigarette butt.

[keir451]

I was in that playtest. I was the pilot, and grinding out gargoyles like a spent cigarette butt.

How many missiles did you use? How many times did you have to shoot an enemy with the guns?

[The Galactus Kid]

I understand. As a writer you should believe in your product, but it seems that by not actively addressing the concerns of those who purchase your product you're essentially saying that our opinoins aren't important. If you do not at least take into consideration the desire of those of us who would like to see more "hard SF", then you are also doing yourself, as a writer, a disservice. This is/has been/will be a continuing complaint about Palladium Books in general, but esp. Rifts, as seen numerable times on these boards.

I have stated previously that I DO INFACT take into consideration your opinion and criticisms. I listen to everyone and hear their point of view. The fact is that the vast majority of the input I get is not from those readers that want "hard sf". I'm not doing a disservice, but infact giving the majority of the fans what they want.

So it's a "missile platform", what about when it runs out of missiles? That's where it's secondary systems come in and they should be powerful enough to kill a Gargoyle Lord w/one shot, not nickle and dime him to death.

When it runs out of missiles, it uses its boom guns, ion canon, laser, ion turret, and troop support (even in the form of the 4 suits of predator II power armor that it can carry). Yet again, I have yet to see someone who has played as a member of a crew of the devestator say otherwise. I'll even be running a game at GenCon about this (the same one I ran at the creators conference).

Yes, I'm quite sure there are those who found your ideas neat and cool, unfortunately some of them (like Kevin himself) don't even bother to reread their own material to ensure proper continuity of rules and story plot. As some one who once pursued writing as a career it was drilled into me that the story has to be believable (it has to make sense to the readers) and you have to keep your continuity straight. If you don't have those then the story will flop.

1) I agree with Mumah. I would very much like to see some of your work. Please feel free to submit is to the Rifter. If you have been published elsewhere I would like to read it. I'm always looking to support people I know, even if only "know" them on an internet forum.
2) Please point out true continuity problems so that I may be able to be aware of them in the future. Nothing that has been brought up so far has been a problem with continuity, only personal preference.

OK, the new X-1000 only does 2D6x10 MD ? Who had that particular brain fart ? and for some reason it has a secondary weapon that does 4D6x10 MD ? That's a brain fart that leaves skid marks on the inside of your hoodie.

Feel free to use 1D4x100 and 1D6x100 respectively. Personally, I think the Devestator Mk 2 is great as it is.

Please reference my above statement of the playtest where the Devestator (crewed by 4, instead of the normal 6, without any other troop support killed 26 members of the Gargoyle horde and was still raring to go.

So a couple of guys leaning out the window with laser rifles can do more damage and you don't see the problem ? The secondary weapon does more damage than the main gun and you still don't see a problem with this ?

Couldn't Devastate your Momma indeed.

As I said before, the primary weapon can do up to 5D6x10. One of my biggest compalints about the entire RIFTS universe is scaled damage, so i totally understand your frustration. BUT within the sandbox from which i have to work, I think the Devestator Mk II is great.

Again, I've tested this with players, and still have not found anyone who has played a crew in game. Most people just seem to have a problem with it in concept.

[The Galactus Kid]

I was in that playtest. I was the pilot, and grinding out gargoyles like a spent cigarette butt.

How many missiles did you use? How many times did you have to shoot an enemy with the guns?

Each member of the crew was assigned their particular weapons, like it is listed in the book. The super laser and the super ion canon were fired every turn. Missiles were almost fired every turn.

[Carl Gleba]

I was in that playtest. I was the pilot, and grinding out gargoyles like a spent cigarette butt.

How many missiles did you use? How many times did you have to shoot an enemy with the guns?

Each member of the crew was assigned their particular weapons, like it is listed in the book. The super laser and the super ion canon were fired every turn. Missiles were almost fired every turn.

All Gargoyles should run in fear when Amy Ashbaugh is manning the missiles!

I walked by the game and recall someone (or Amy) saying to launch the nukes!

[The Galactus Kid]

I was in that playtest. I was the pilot, and grinding out gargoyles like a spent cigarette butt.

How many missiles did you use? How many times did you have to shoot an enemy with the guns?

Each member of the crew was assigned their particular weapons, like it is listed in the book. The super laser and the super ion canon were fired every turn. Missiles were almost fired every turn.

All Gargoyles should run in fear when Amy Ashbaugh is manning the missiles!

I walked by the game and recall someone (or Amy) saying to launch the nukes!

It was Amy...and it was one...and it killed 6 gargoyles instantly on a max roll of the die...

[mumah]

I was in that playtest. I was the pilot, and grinding out gargoyles like a spent cigarette butt.

How many missiles did you use? How many times did you have to shoot an enemy with the guns?

I believe I only shot each gargoyle once. Mostly I was having fun doing some disgusting melee damage. I believe I had several of them pinned under my feet while I did a little Riverdancing in a very large robot. No joke.

[cornholioprime]

Mister Galactus Kid, Sir.....


I have only ONE complaint with your book....and it might NOT be what you think it is.


My only complaint with your book.....is that the future looked a little bit TOO sunny for the NGR!!

Between the Robo-Furry spies, the Egg Killers, the internecine strife between the various Clans, and the newly-christened NGR Air Force, it looks to me as if the NGR is ultimately going to have less trouble with tens of millions of armed and armored Gargoyles and Brodkil than the whole North American continent combined is going to have with a measly four million, relatively unintelligent and unarmed Xiticix.


Liked the book otherwise, and hope that, at least, there will be some sort of 'official Rifter' material laying out what, if anything, Lord Splynncryth and/or Rama-Set will do to even the odds.......

[keir451]

My only complaint was SOME of the tech, the background and society info was killer.

The underlined I can agree on, the background info was well done. I did enjoy the interview w/ General Rasheem. I also liked most of the weapons and body armor, but I didn't like the power armors (as I've already stated ad nauseum) or the new robot designs. Those are what has primarily made me dislike the book along with the few pages of artwork I listed.

[johnkretzer]

My only complaint was SOME of the tech, the background and society info was killer.

The underlined I can agree on, the background info was well done. I did enjoy the interview w/ General Rasheem. I also liked most of the weapons and body armor, but I didn't like the power armors (as I've already stated ad nauseum) or the new robot designs. Those are what has primarily made me dislike the book along with the few pages of artwork I listed.

That is the reason why you hate the book? Wow...I come from a different school of gamer than you. I don't expect a RPG book to be 100% useful. I love to tinker with stuff.

And your complaint about the art in the book...I can agree with you. I don't like it but as long as the book contains useful infomation I can ignore some ugly pictures.

As to everything not following your understanding of science...well the level of tech is set hundreds years in the future...so who the heck knows. I mean take a large commercial air plane back a 100+ years and present it to the science community that it will fly...and you would be laughed at. Science changes...what we understand as truth today maybe a lie tomorrow.

I thought it was a great book just because the background info....PAs and robots are retardly easy to alter to fit your idea of 'science'.

As for the Devastor...I think people underestiminate it due to the fact that most players don't want to play a crew operated vehicle. So people look at a rather small part of it's capablities as if a single pilot was operating it. It would be a intersting campaign to run...I think.

[mumah]

As for the Devastor...I think people underestiminate it due to the fact that most players don't want to play a crew operated vehicle. So people look at a rather small part of it's capablities as if a single pilot was operating it. It would be a intersting campaign to run...I think.

I can tell you first hand it was a lot of fun.

[AdmTolval]

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in and clear a matter up. In Underseas, the New Navy is govern by Fleet Command (p. 96) and Captain Nemo is the leader of it (p. 107). There is not a President of the New Navy so if Captain Nemo wanted to make a treaty with the NGR, unofficial or official, he would have the authority to. Also on page 109 under Foreign Relations (Triax and the NGR), it gives a hint about a possible future alliance between the two.

[Kovoston]

@Galactus Kid; I don't NEED science to explain the materials in Rifts, but I can use science to explain the technology, super lasers, rail guns, giant robots and power armor are no longer as fictional as they used to be. Therefore I use the realistic concepts that are already present to help define the tech in Rifts.

I can assure you, these things are all still highly fictional. Sure, the mathematics is in place, even the scientific know-how, but the logistics and practical cost of building, fueling, and usage of such things make them as impractical as a submarine with screen doors. I'm not challenging you directly or even defending the book. I'm just questioning where you're drawing the line of your suspension of disbelief. I remember once discussing the movie Cloverfield with a friend. Personally, I love the flick, but I had a friend see it and he said he hated it. When asked why, he said, "It was totally unbelievable. There's no way a camera battery would last for over eight hours straight, using autofocus, zooming, nightvision and even the light was on." See, it wasn't the 300ft tall alien supermonster stomping through New York that he found unbelievable....

You don't have to be a scientist to conceive of interesting things for Rifts, I'm not a scientist, I'm just a college student who's studying Medical Imaging technology, but I can and have come up with better units than the "Fat Boy GB", or wasting armor materials on wing like structures that apparently serve no realistic purpose.

Again, this not a direct challenge. If you honestly have come up with better units or weapons or other fun RPG toys, please submit them to the Rifter. I would like to see them, even Brandon Aten and Taylor White (authors of Triax 2) would love to see what new tech you've designed and would probably admit that your designs are better. This is not me calling you out, sir. This is me just encouraging your creativity, and if your work is better than the people who have been compensated for their ideas, maybe you should be, too. Submit it to the Rifter. Share with the rest of us so that we can play with your toys, too.

P.S.
I don't mind if you rip on the art in the book. I don't have any in it.

You took the words right out of my mouth Mike.

[keir451]

My only complaint was SOME of the tech, the background and society info was killer.

The underlined I can agree on, the background info was well done. I did enjoy the interview w/ General Rasheem. I also liked most of the weapons and body armor, but I didn't like the power armors (as I've already stated ad nauseum) or the new robot designs. Those are what has primarily made me dislike the book along with the few pages of artwork I listed.

That is the reason why you hate the book? Wow...I come from a different school of gamer than you. I don't expect a RPG book to be 100% useful. I love to tinker with stuff.

And your complaint about the art in the book...I can agree with you. I don't like it but as long as the book contains useful infomation I can ignore some ugly pictures.

As to everything not following your understanding of science...well the level of tech is set hundreds years in the future...so who the heck knows. I mean take a large commercial air plane back a 100+ years and present it to the science community that it will fly...and you would be laughed at. Science changes...what we understand as truth today maybe a lie tomorrow.

I thought it was a great book just because the background info....PAs and robots are retardly easy to alter to fit your idea of 'science'.

As for the Devastor...I think people underestiminate it due to the fact that most players don't want to play a crew operated vehicle. So people look at a rather small part of it's capablities as if a single pilot was operating it. It would be a intersting campaign to run...I think.

Hey john, well yeah that's my gripe, I don't care for many of his PA and robot units or the fighter designs. But I actually find it really easy to theorize on where the technology of today is gonna be 80 yrs. from now (the basis of Rifts tech starts w/Chaos Earth) and then project 200+ yrs forward. So because my understanding of science is flawed I seek out those who know better than I and pick their brains and then work from there. So I actually end up w/a fairly good idea of where our tech can & will take us and then I use that to project for Rifts using RL(Real Life) tech & science as it's basis (which it really is) and wind up pretty damn close to what's in the game.
I also look for answers to questions that many players refuse to accept, like "Where does the CS get its resources?" and when I reply "They're in the US of A, what resources WE have they WILL still have 80 yrs from now and since the population was significantly reduced during the Apocalypse the use of those self same resources was also significantly reduced. So the CS is using the resources of the North American continent in the areas they control that haven't been touched for nearly 300+ yrs." Then people start crying "Bullsh*t" and ignore the facts simply because it doesn't suit them or they want the CS to be weaker than they are.
I respect Galactus Kid, and I respect the effort he put forth to create this work, but I disagree with it for honest, realistic reasons, not because I want to tear down his effort.
I also, generally, respect Braden Campbell. Yet again I disagree with his work because he's using essentially "fake tech" and following his own comment of being "a lazy GM".
I took the time and effort to read thru Triax 2 before posting, are based upon the work of the book and the previous World Bokks associated with it as well as my understanding of the tech at hand, plus a dose of common sense (as KS himself suggests). So my personal knowledge and my "common sense" cry out "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!" when I see his designs.