Thoughts on an Rifts Africa campaign?

[Spinachcat]

I am considering putting together a Rifts campaign for Africa - maybe for the Rifter. It would definitely focus on the arrival of the Four Horsemen and their devastation. Basically, I am thinking an Africa 1.5 sourcebook.

I am not thrilled that Rifts Aftermath simply says "The Horsemen were defeated" which somewhat kills any kind of campaign...except I would want to leave that more open-ended and approach it from a "What-If" position.

What would you want to see in a Africa campaign?

What enhancements to the Africa book would benefit your gameplay?

[Supergyro]

From a previous thread

Oooh, War with Nukes and the urge to use 'em... now we're cookin with Evil gas!

Each of the Horsemen needed some sort of ability to rain GLOBAL destruction. This is good for them as a menace and good to bring characters involved. I would think it fitting to have a worldwide plague of some sort that strikes all, human and deebee alike, shuts down everything else and has Pestilence as the center. No more of this 'Psychics have bad dreams so heroes are going to Africa', no no no no no. More like 15% of the CS dies due to some horrible virulent nastyness, and everywhere in North America, xiticix, Kittani, even dragons, are dying of this same thing, and the only lead is the one Psi-Bat plague survivor who just sits around mumbling and scribbling out a map of Africa...

Add some good Famine (or be a little more creative. A Worldwide drought or perhaps PPE shortage? What can be strangled to make Rift's Earth squeeze?). Make some sort of worldwide shortage that is bringing everyone to their knees.

Add the self destruction of formerly close allies. Why is Atlantis not taking over? For some reason, Splynncryth has a Kydian civil war brewing and he's trying to not have his little cash cow get destroyed by it! In fact, have Splyncryth take a holiday somewhere safer leaving Atlantis in less competent hands because things have gotten a little 'unstable'. Splynny is wondering if keeping Atlantis may become more trouble than its worth.

The Four Horsemen were supposed to be one of the Great Four Menaces of Rifts Earth, it would not have been overpowered to give them enough power to make everyone desperate! Well, everyone but The Lord of The Deep, perhaps The Lord wouldn't care, or does it have The Plague and is going even more insane and frenzied? It may die, but with its lifespan it will be the last one to go and in the meantime it's berserk.

For however long The Horsemen Ride, all differences are temporarily forgotten. If it doesn't get this bad, then there's no reason for the gathering of heroes. Now with all the World books, people can play with exactly how bad things would get in different parts of the world.

The whole 'necromancers siding with Death' idea... I don't like it. Being undead isn't so bad. I'd have Death be total and absolute ending of existence. Have Necromancers actually fearing this being. It doesn't consume you or possess you or any of that rot. Being killed, possessed or consumed, Necromancers can work with that. When this being is done with you, you simply do not exist any more. You're done, gone, kaput. Its goal is the total ending of all existence, living, undead, robotic, sentient, non-sentient, When universes die, this is the being that comes for them. For one glorious world book, have Murder wraiths and cyber knights agree, THIS BEING MUST BE STOPPED!

So, once every other continent is feeling like they're going through a whole new cataclysm, then the Heroes start to come to Africa because it's the only lead they got. Then you can make Africa the MEANEST, NASTIEST, continent. Why is it again the 'dark continent'? Because the Horsemens' presence has locked it off and the poor humans there are surviving in a permanent ongoing apocalypse which if continued will leave the entire place absolutely lifeless. It also needs a barrier of some kind. What fun is it if the party can go to Africa and run out again to grab bigger guns?

maybe that's Death's gig. He has linked with the land and he links with any living/undead/robotic/magical thing that steps upon it. If someone tries to leave it while Death is still present, they die. Now there's motivation to go down to wherever he is and try to put a nuke up his butt. Does it work on dragons? Yes. Does it work on Gods? Yes, which is why no gods will come anywhere near that continent. No one can radio out, people who come in are stuck, the whole continent is cursed. No more of this 'Thor could take War in a fight' malarky. Every pantheon has empty thrones which used to held by Gods who tried to stand against The Horsemen.

To this add the post-apocalyptic African ideas. It would, in this point, be fair to say the Africans are the meanest and toughest beings on the planet and no one knew because they were unable to leave the continent. Don't worry about the taking over once it's over. Since Africa is a perpetual killzone (and the fun would be making enough kinds of horrific killzones to keep every misbegotten inch of that place interesting), the population of Africa is far less than anywhere else. For those poor folks, The Cataclysm never really ended, it just went on for a century.

Here is where I'd have technology and magic working together since the endless horrors are beyond anything that one or the other can handle. Power armor pilots who wear magic fetishes, enchanted plasma guns, What remains of South Africa is a fascist dictatorship because it needs to be because things are just that bad! Human tech and magic alongside some Deebees who were unfortunate enough to rift in here and are stuck trying desperately to survive.

This would be the only place where I'd put a random encounter table. This continent *is* supposed to be so dangerous that you can't go three days of travel without something trying to kill you. And all of it is horrendous abominations that are really nothing but extensions of the nearest Horseman.

Now, how would one defeat these Horsemen? What would their weaknesses be (Millenium wood weapons.. LAME!!!)? Any suggestions? Ponder ponder ponder ponder....

[Spinachcat]

Thank you!

Have a link to that thread?

[TechnoGothic]

No Horsemen of the Apoc...at all. They were boring to begin with.

I'd deal with the Eygptian Gods in the Northeast instead.
Africa is a huge place and i'd rather see 4 Worldbooks detailing it by dividing it up into Regions like North America. Eygptian Empire Worldbook. Congo Worldbook. Northwest Africa worldbook. South Africa worldbook.

We do not need another craptastic book like Worldbook Africa again which focus on NPC villians, and a gathering of heroes from Europe and the World to defeat the NPC villians. Rifts Africa was/is a huge EPIC FAILURE.

We can do alot more and Better with Rifts Africa by Ignoring the original completely.
No Horsemen. Period.

[Supergyro]

Link to an *old* thread (I hope I posted it right)

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=58523&hilit=africa+evil+gas

No Horsemen of the Apoc...at all. They were boring to begin with.

I'd deal with the Eygptian Gods in the Northeast instead.
Africa is a huge place and i'd rather see 4 Worldbooks detailing it by dividing it up into Regions like North America. Eygptian Empire Worldbook. Congo Worldbook. Northwest Africa worldbook. South Africa worldbook.

We do not need another craptastic book like Worldbook Africa again which focus on NPC villians, and a gathering of heroes from Europe and the World to defeat the NPC villians. Rifts Africa was/is a huge EPIC FAILURE.

We can do alot more and Better with Rifts Africa by Ignoring the original completely.
No Horsemen. Period.

As much as I got annoyed at The Horsemen and I thought the delivery was a bit lackluster, I'll defend them for the same reason I defend a lot of things. They were different. Using them as a backdrop for Africa makes it different from other places.

I'd not want to take them out before discussing what was going to be put in to replace them as "the reason PC's would want to be in Africa rather than anywhere else"

[Colt47]

I'll second the notion that Rifts Africa was boring. They could make an entire book on just the middle eastern regions, such as Persia, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Egypt, and other areas. I find it hard to believe that these areas would just drop off the face of the earth, and they have a culture that is just as rich and unique as that of Japan, The United States, the nations of Europe, South America, and other places.

[Kalidor]

Wow. Africa is one of my favorite books.

Our most epic campaign was one that started in Europe and ended in Africa to prevent the horsemen from ever being summoned in a final showdown with Pharaoh Rama Set

[TechnoGothic]

I'll second the notion that Rifts Africa was boring. They could make an entire book on just the middle eastern regions, such as Persia, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Egypt, and other areas. I find it hard to believe that these areas would just drop off the face of the earth, and they have a culture that is just as rich and unique as that of Japan, The United States, the nations of Europe, South America, and other places.

BEST way to do a RIFTS Middle East Worldbook ??

Focus the Book on Ancient Myths and Cultures returned since the cataclysm.
Arabian Knights or the Return of the Persian God-King XERXES who is out to reclaim his Empire as a True Godling RCC. That would be interesting to Read about. Having it be a Kingdom of Magic and Science but no Psionics (in the area) would be unique. Mystic OCCs which grant Psionics are not found. New TW Varient (without psionics). The IMMORTAL RCC/OCC. Demonic Transformation into Super-soldiers.
BY Focusing on Ancient Persian Empires for the setting will ignore the reason why PB ignores the region in books ... Religion. Just say the ancient religions returned in force and is now the dominated religion for the area. The BC-era Religions for Persia and the Middle East. Yes it is a Cop-out in many way, but it opens the region to Role-playing in Fun stories and setting.

AS FOR AFRICA ITSELF ...
What is the Dominate History and Culture for the land that people still remember from History.
Eygpt.
They Rest of the Africas History is unknown to most people and people write it off as being uncultured. That is Untrue. Africa had many great Cultures in the BC-eras and great Kingdoms. Its just they are now almost totally forgotten in modern Histories.

IF YOU WANT ... Africa to be Different from the Rest of the World. That is Easy.
Africa could be Home to a NEW Culture from the Future !! They are from RIFTS Earth's Future and must now insure that their culture starts and flourishes as their Future-History has told them things happened. They could be an Ultra-Tech society which is far from what we think of Africa in Origin. Who Knows ??

OR .... YOU COULD ...
Give Africa SPLICER Bio-Tech and build a new Society around that.
Why did they Reject other technologies for Bio-Tech ?
What could a Bio-Tech Africa look like Now with 200+ years to dominate the land. How would many Animal-breeds have been altered ?? What new creatures could they have Bio-engineered and for what purpose ?? War, Food, etc... This method could bring the concept of Darkest African as the dark Contient back. Others could be afraid to travel to the land for this reason, not knowing what they will encounter.

[Supergyro]

Focus the Book on Ancient Myths and Cultures returned since the cataclysm.
Arabian Knights or the Return of the Persian God-King XERXES who is out to reclaim his Empire as a True Godling RCC. That would be interesting to Read about. Having it be a Kingdom of Magic and Science but no Psionics (in the area) would be unique. Mystic OCCs which grant Psionics are not found. New TW Varient (without psionics). The IMMORTAL RCC/OCC. Demonic Transformation into Super-soldiers.
BY Focusing on Ancient Persian Empires for the setting will ignore the reason why PB ignores the region in books ... Religion. Just say the ancient religions returned in force and is now the dominated religion for the area. The BC-era Religions for Persia and the Middle East. Yes it is a Cop-out in many way, but it opens the region to Role-playing in Fun stories and setting.

That's what they did to England. The celtic gods returned and culture reverted to King Arthur and his knights.

It not only makes for a shallow worldbook with derivative ideas, it also manages to completely belittle any cultural advances those people have made in the last 1000 years while simultaneously playing to literally ancient stereotypes.

[TechnoGothic]

Focus the Book on Ancient Myths and Cultures returned since the cataclysm.
Arabian Knights or the Return of the Persian God-King XERXES who is out to reclaim his Empire as a True Godling RCC. That would be interesting to Read about. Having it be a Kingdom of Magic and Science but no Psionics (in the area) would be unique. Mystic OCCs which grant Psionics are not found. New TW Varient (without psionics). The IMMORTAL RCC/OCC. Demonic Transformation into Super-soldiers.
BY Focusing on Ancient Persian Empires for the setting will ignore the reason why PB ignores the region in books ... Religion. Just say the ancient religions returned in force and is now the dominated religion for the area. The BC-era Religions for Persia and the Middle East. Yes it is a Cop-out in many way, but it opens the region to Role-playing in Fun stories and setting.

That's what they did to England. The celtic gods returned and culture reverted to King Arthur and his knights.

It not only makes for a shallow worldbook with derivative ideas, it also manages to completely belittle any cultural advances those people have made in the last 1000 years while simultaneously playing to literally ancient stereotypes.

The England Book was another Epic Failure however.
The Celtic Gods did not return from what I remember. I remember a SPLOGORTH came to England and is maniplating Everyone by using his Splinter Avatars to Masquerade as Lady of the Lake, and others...
Plus the Psionic X-Caliber Sword was very Dumb.

WB England would have been a Great Place to Base the The Cyber-Knights at. Expanding on the Cyber-Knights and making them more Knightly in outlook. With King Arther returning from a Journey through the Rifts at last.
The Chaing-Ku Dragon RCC did not Fit the setting either. They should have introduced in an Asian Worldbook.

For Middle East...
The Return of the Actual XERXUS as a real Godling. He has been reclaiming his Lands. Converting his People Back to the ancient ways. With Proof of his Divine Powers, the Middle East would bow to his will over time.
I would Buy a book like that.
If Ignoring Islam means they can write a book on the region, i say do it. They are going to offend someone either way, might as well go the safe route and Write a book about a better time period to explore in an modern age returning.

[mobuttu]

What would you want to see in a Africa campaign?

Specifically for the Four Horsemen I'd like to see several mini-scenarios that deal with 4Horsemen or the consequences of destruction that they leave behind.

[gaby]

It would have been better if ther were 3 or 4 books on Africa.

I would have a number of Rival powers for the Phoenix empire.
Going from a Magic kingdom to surviving South african tech-cities.

[MikelAmroni]

I think the aftermath of the 4 horsemen is a better MO for a African Campaign, especially if that campaign touches on some of the regional forces: Egypt's forces, Bedouin raider tribes with the magical equivallent of the Warlords of Russia (no bionic equiv, just magically equipped horseman using rifles salvaged from the military forces), Maybe Casablanca reborn, monster attacks out in the deep desert while tracking down something, a trek through the Congo, a trek through the skeleton of Lagos (it survived, even if it got washed away - that city has more survival skills than any on the planet), Perhaps a reborn Zulu Empire - or an older empire that worshipped the 4 horsemen, but now you need to help a new leader take over.

I mean a campaign that treked across the continent would be very fun.

[Supergyro]

The England Book was another Epic Failure however.
The Celtic Gods did not return from what I remember.

Incorrect, the celtic gods did return. Three of them, Dagda, Lugh, and Bres are statted out specifically.

I remember a SPLOGORTH came to England and is maniplating Everyone by using his Splinter Avatars to Masquerade as Lady of the Lake, and others...

For Middle East...
The Return of the Actual XERXUS as a real Godling. He has been reclaiming his Lands. Converting his People Back to the ancient ways. With Proof of his Divine Powers, the Middle East would bow to his will over time.
I would Buy a book like that.

As opposed to The Return of the Actual MYRRLIN as a real Immortal. He has been reclaiming his lands (through Arthur), Converting his People back to the ancient ways. With Proof of his Sorcerous Powers, England would bow to his will over time...

you bought the England version of that formula, it didn't work out well.

Plus the Psionic X-Caliber Sword was very Dumb.

Very true. It didn't even give a bonus to parry.

If Ignoring Islam means they can write a book on the region, i say do it. They are going to offend someone either way, might as well go the safe route and Write a book about a better time period to explore in an modern age returning.

If it's impossible to treat the people of the area with respect, then the book should not be written. Ignoring Islam ignores perhaps the single greatest influence on the culture of the area over the last millennia (It's ignorant to leave it out). Rifts Africa had the same problem, even worse. Evidently no one in Africa even knows how to use a pistol anymore.... having an area 'regress to an ancient state' is a cheap way to ignore the history and culture of the people while pretending to 'represent them'. It literally potrays them as primitives (MDC primitives, but primitives nonetheless). Portraying a modern group of people as primitives is not respectful, no matter how much MDC you give their armor.

However, including islam would be too hot-button.

Since islam can't be included due to a controversial nature, nor can it be ignored without running roughshod over the culture of the people in question, the book should simply not be written.

[TechnoGothic]

Africa could be epic. Split it into three world books. Africa: The Empire of Death (Phoenix Empire), Africa: Congo, and Africa: Zulu Nation. Just ideas off the top of my head presented back cover style.

Africa: The Empire of Death
Explore the twisted New Phoenix Empire. A land ruled by demons. A land split by civil war between monsters. With the defeat of the Four Horsemen Pharaoh Rama-set's hold on his kingdom is shattered by up and coming priests of Dark Gods. Slave revolts led by the mysterious Jericho group using unknown technology have turned his legions against him.

High Priest Kharis-Netet- A 1000 year old undead greater Mummy Imortalus who in life was a faithful servant of Taut. With the defeat of the Four Horsemen and the shattering of the Gargoyle Empire the mad Rama-Set has fallen out of favor. Priest Kharis sees opportunity to elevate himself to his rightful place as ruler f the Empire. His dark priests openly defies the will of the Pharaoh.

The Phoenix Empire mapped and detailed.

New D-bees and the mysterious Jinn.

The mysterious Jericho- Their plans, tactics, and the dark secret at the center of the groups activities. Slaves recruited to the cause are given Agnar Robots, instead of freedom they are enslaved as components in demonic war machines for the Persian god Ahriman. (Or a Splicer's house which ever...)

If it's impossible to treat the people of the area with respect, then the book should not be written. Ignoring Islam ignores perhaps the single greatest influence on the culture of the area over the last millennia (It's ignorant to leave it out). Rifts Africa had the same problem, even worse. Evidently no one in Africa even knows how to use a pistol anymore.... having an area 'regress to an ancient state' is a cheap way to ignore the history and culture of the people while pretending to 'represent them'. It literally potrays them as primitives (MDC primitives, but primitives nonetheless). Portraying a modern group of people as primitives is not respectful, no matter how much MDC you give their armor.

However, including islam would be too hot-button.

Since islam can't be included due to a controversial nature, nor can it be ignored without running roughshod over the culture of the people in question, the book should simply not be written

Also I fail to see why Palladium cannot just include Islam as they have the Christian faith in New West and Russia. Sure it is their but the faith itself does not grant powers to priests. Just fluff. Simple done. If Alli is a muslim he can use the crescent as a cross to repel vampires. That does not mean he is unable to pilot a suit of power armor or fire a Triax railgun against the lesser Djinn invaders from the Phoenix Empire.

Exactly.
Just make a OCC or Two for the Islam Priests and your done with Islam issues.
Whatever else is done with the book would not need to mention Islam at all unless their is FLUFF in the Good that say something like this. The Followers of XERSES the God-King at at odds with the Followers of Alli in the Region. That the two religions are at war with each other. There your Done. Now lets see some good OCCs that will be fun to Role-play. XERXES the great may have even Replaced the Major Islam Moscs with his own Temples...The Temple Mount maybe ??
I'd have the Isalm People be the High Tech users with the own Fortress City(s).
I'd have the Xerxes followers be the Mystic, Primative types. With the religion gaining converts due to people wishing to "Let Lose" their lust, greed, etc...

[Supergyro]

Also I fail to see why Palladium cannot just include Islam as they have the Christian faith in New West and Russia.

Because Christianity is waning as a cultural influence in America and Russia, so a science fiction setting in 'Post-apocalyptic' Montana can abbreviate and under-represent it without being wholely disrespectful to the culture of the people. That the authors are Americans, writing about America, also helps. Americans are encyclopedic on American culture, language, and practice.

However, Islam in Iran is currently their most powerful cultural force, so a 'post apocalyptic' Iran would have to discuss what happenned to it. That American authors would be writing about Iran would also be a problem unless the authors were encyclopedic on Iranian culture and practices which.. I highly doubt they would be.

What level of knowledge about Iran would be needed? Joe Dimaggio, Paul Bunyon, Archie Bunker, Thomas Jefferson. I bet every person reading this would be able to tell apart the sports star, the legendary figure, the TV character, and the former President. A similar level and fluency of knowledge about Iran would be needed to enable the writing of a good Rifts: Persia. That person could probably write a very interesting book.

It's the difference between Jeff Foxworthy telling jokes about rednecks in his Georgia accent and Hamid Zamaani telling the same jokes. Same jokes, different joker, and all of a sudden you have a problem.

The Followers of XERSES the God-King at at odds with the Followers of Alli in the Region. That the two religions are at war with each other. There your Done. Now lets see some good OCCs that will be fun to Role-play. XERXES the great may have even Replaced the Major Islam Moscs with his own Temples...The Temple Mount maybe ??
I'd have the Isalm People be the High Tech users with the own Fortress City(s).
I'd have the Xerxes followers be the Mystic, Primative types. With the religion gaining converts due to people wishing to "Let Lose" their lust, greed, etc...

The Xerxes idea is particularly troublesome for one very major reason (in addition to being the same formula as Merlin but without the same mythological basis)

The Xerxes idea doesn't just 'ignore' religion in Iran, it downright replaces it. It's one thing to say "I'm going to keep my hands off religion" and a whole other to say "I'm just going to replace it with something else of my own creation."

[Killer Cyborg]

I am not thrilled that Rifts Aftermath simply says "The Horsemen were defeated" which somewhat kills any kind of campaign...except I would want to leave that more open-ended and approach it from a "What-If" position.

It doesn't kill any campaign; it refers to whatever campaign you ran when the book came out, where the party succeeded in defeating the horsemen. Or it refers to whatever backstory you want to write up where the horsemen were defeated.
It doesn't leave the horsemen alive because if they were, then a LOT of the stuff in later books would have ended up differently.

What would you want to see in a Africa campaign?

Let me start with what I do NOT want to see:
-Anything to do with existing religions, customs, beliefs, cultures, or stereotypes. The Egyptian gods might be an exception, because their pyramids will still be standing, but even then it might be cooler to have something else have moved in and usurped the place (as with Atlantis).

So what do I want?
The things I like best about rifts are the stuff that's original. Stuff that isn't based on modern cliches.
Vampires in Mexico. Xiticix up north. Dinosaurs in Florida/Georgia.
Whatever exists on Rifts Earth should have a reason for existing other than a) "it'd be kewl!" or b) "it's a mega-damage version of the past!"
If you want to have bushmen in Rifts Africa, that's fine; the terrain and climate, combined with a collapse of technology, would have any surviving humans living in much the same way that ancient humans did.
If you want to have a Neo-South-Africa full of apartheid-style racism, that's lame. There's no reason for it beyond modern stereotypes.

Look at Dinosaur Swamps. Florida dinosaurs is NOT a cliche. When people think "Florida," they do NOT think "dinosaurs."
But it works, because when you're traveling through the swamps of Florida, you could easily picture dinosaurs blending right in with the landscape. It fits, even though there likely never even were any dinos in that area.
If Rifts: Florida had been all about The Fountain of Youth, MDC Retirement Homes, and drug smuggling, that would have just plain sucked. But the writers (presumably Kevin) came up with something original.
That's what I'd like to see for Africa.
The Four Horsemen were a good start in that direction.
From there, I'd like to see something interesting. Maybe a large colony of d-bees or aliens show up. Maybe, for some reason, these aliens/d-bees do NOT come off as fantasy version of existing people or animals (I'm looking at YOU, MDC kangaroos in Australia, and at YOU, cactus people, and especially at YOU, MDC mounties in Canada), but instead have some kind of past or personality in their own right.
What if the aliens/d-bees rifted in are specifically NOT suited for the environment? Not something that's instantly lethal, but something that makes survival tough for them. Maybe they're ocean-dwellers in their own world, for example, and while they can live on the surface, it's not their natural habitat. Kind of like the Creature From The Black Lagoon, only now they don't have a lagoon, and they have to live as out in the bush. Perhaps they're nomads, wandering around looking for water, or perhaps they've found the oceans and discovered that they're inhospitable (maybe these guys had freshwater oceans back home, and the salt waters of Earth are too hostile to them).
Are these guys high-tech? Low-tech? Psychic? Magic? Super-powered? Who knows? Any of those would be interesting.

A hell of a lot more interesting than yet another rehashing of the same old geographical cliches that Rifts books are so full of.

[Killer Cyborg]

As for religions, if one HAS to have modern religions existing in the Middle East, here's my suggestion:
Mormons.

Why?
Why not?
People and cultures have a tendency to spread out, migrate, and change over time. Just because there's a lot of Jews and Muslims hanging out in the Middle East now is no reason why things would be the same a few hundred years from now.
If not Mormons, how about snake handlers?
Or Buddhists?
Or a huge cult of David Hasselhof worshippers who think he was a god, and who try to follow his teachings.

300 years ago, there weren't a lot of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, or Wiccans living in North America, but BOY have things changed.
Because that's what things DO: They change.

[Kalidor]

Do we really need to ask why? Or do you guys just not get CNN?

[TechnoGothic]

Someone actually watches CNN anymore ??

[Supergyro]

Let me start with what I do NOT want to see:
-Anything to do with existing religions, customs, beliefs, cultures, or stereotypes. The Egyptian gods might be an exception, because their pyramids will still be standing, but even then it might be cooler to have something else have moved in and usurped the place (as with Atlantis).

We agree on the problem, but I disagree on the solution.

A hallmark of post-apocalptic science fiction is "building on the ruins of the world that once was". Rifts mixes the "Oh my God that's wierd thing from a Rift!" (Splugorth) with "Laying beneath the rubble is the ruins of the fomer world" (Archie), and it's a good mix. Taking out the "What lies beneath the rubble" removes a vital ingredient. However, keeping "What lies beneath the rubble" requires some idea of what was there before it was rubble.

It's not that Rifts uses elements of current cultures that is the problem, it's that the use of those elements is, in most cases, so incredibly *shallow* and is based on such a rudimentary knowledge of the peoples involved that it's ignorant and stupid.

When it's thought out, it's interesting. Putting Apartheid in South Africa? It would be as silly as putting Jim Crow laws in post-apocalyptic America. However, make America racially unified but based on McCarthy-esque predjudice agains Magic and Dee-Bees? You get The CS, which resonates *because* of the echoes of American history and culture.

When it's shallow (Oh look, knights in England... Ninjas in Japan....), it comes across that way and makes you want them to stop... but they don't.... they... just... don't.... stop....

Admittedly, I agree that if Palladium is unable to turn up the intelligence on non-American places, it's almost better to treat the area as a 'blank slate'. However, I think it's within the abilities of writers to treat all areas with the appropriate level of understanding to make a suitable book. (Atlantis and Underseas are two cases where the areas were 'blank slates', so very little cultural knowledge was needed to write these books. Good books too, both of em. Wouldn't work though for the rest of the world, imagine a Rifts:China that doesn't have any Chinese people in it....).

The Four Horsemen were a good start in that direction.

I agree, they were unique, if terribly underdeveloped.

[Kalidor]

Someone actually watches CNN anymore ??

Well, I certainly wasn't going to say Fox News

[Killer Cyborg]

It's not that Rifts uses elements of current cultures that is the problem, it's that the use of those elements is, in most cases, so incredibly *shallow* and is based on such a rudimentary knowledge of the peoples involved that it's ignorant and stupid.

]

We're pretty much in agreement on all that.

When it's thought out, it's interesting. Putting Apartheid in South Africa? It would be as silly as putting Jim Crow laws in post-apocalyptic America. However, make America racially unified but based on McCarthy-esque predjudice agains Magic and Dee-Bees? You get The CS, which resonates *because* of the echoes of American history and culture.

I'd say that it resonates more because of human nature than because of anything in American history. There were witch-hunts before McCarthy, and not just in America. People are, especially in large groups, susceptible to paranoia and sheep-like behavior.

[TechnoGothic]

Idea.

Africa the Dark Contientant
Africa is a land on Eternal Night. Yet the Trees and plants still thrive ? You can still get Sunburned ? What Dark Magics keep the land in Darkness and Why ? The Darkness is Growing to cover the entire contientant. Only the Egyptian Empire and the North Cost remains in the Light. But for how Long ?
Leoped-Men stalk the land in great numbers. Various creatures of Darkness toment travelers. Adventueres have encountered beings of Pure Energy within the Darkness who radiate light like a becon of Hope to all who encounter them.
Learn the secrets of this land of eternal night and what is going on within.

[Spinachcat]

Africa is a land on Eternal Night.

Interesting idea!

[Supergyro]

Idea.

Africa the Dark Contientant
Africa is a land on Eternal Night. Yet the Trees and plants still thrive ? You can still get Sunburned ? What Dark Magics keep the land in Darkness and Why ? The Darkness is Growing to cover the entire contientant. Only the Egyptian Empire and the North Cost remains in the Light. But for how Long ?
Leoped-Men stalk the land in great numbers. Various creatures of Darkness toment travelers. Adventueres have encountered beings of Pure Energy within the Darkness who radiate light like a becon of Hope to all who encounter them.
Learn the secrets of this land of eternal night and what is going on within.

I'm envisioning a techno-magical African Ravenloft vibe...... there's coolness there.

[Spinachcat]

I'm envisioning a techno-magical African Ravenloft vibe...... there's coolness there.

A Techno-Gothic vibe!

I personally have no problem throwing out current religions in Rifts. Religions often radically change over time, responding to cultural and technological changes. In the case of the Rifts Apocalypse, I have no problem envisioning a thousand new cults to replace the old ways.

Also, using "real" religion in any context is bound to peeve off somebody and I don't need that nonsense at the game table.