Shemarrian battle squad question.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:13 am

1 Typical Light seek an destroy squad 5-8 members .. according to pg 26.

What would it take for the Coalition or the Free Quebec forces need to take this group out ?

Crucible · Unread post by **Crucible** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:29 am

Lenwen wrote:1 Typical Light seek an destroy squad 5-8 members .. according to pg 26.

What would it take for the Coalition or the Free Quebec forces need to take this group out ?

I still only have the original sourcebook, but I doubt the CS or FQ would stand a chance in squad on squad battel, yes even with the old version and no upgrades. They would do better to just leave thiese "ladies" alone.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:42 am

Crucible wrote:
Lenwen wrote:1 Typical Light seek an destroy squad 5-8 members .. according to pg 26.

What would it take for the Coalition or the Free Quebec forces need to take this group out ?

I still only have the original sourcebook, but I doubt the CS or FQ would stand a chance in squad on squad battel, yes even with the old version and no upgrades. They would do better to just leave thiese "ladies" alone.

You do not think it would even be close ?

Crucible · Unread post by **Crucible** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:46 am

Lenwen wrote:
Crucible wrote:
Lenwen wrote:1 Typical Light seek an destroy squad 5-8 members .. according to pg 26.

What would it take for the Coalition or the Free Quebec forces need to take this group out ?

I still only have the original sourcebook, but I doubt the CS or FQ would stand a chance in squad on squad battel, yes even with the old version and no upgrades. They would do better to just leave thiese "ladies" alone.

You do not think it would even be close ?

not even by the old book standards. Man, I actually ran a game a few years ago and these guys were powered and well armed. The Shemarrians flattened my group and fast.

I reserve these "ladies" for serious serious serious times. These ladies can take on Repo Bots and would be a good fight for Cosmic Knights. They are the serious thing, and I can only imagine the upgrades since the Old Sourcebook. Uh uh.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:50 am

Crucible wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Crucible wrote:
Lenwen wrote:1 Typical Light seek an destroy squad 5-8 members .. according to pg 26.

What would it take for the Coalition or the Free Quebec forces need to take this group out ?

I still only have the original sourcebook, but I doubt the CS or FQ would stand a chance in squad on squad battel, yes even with the old version and no upgrades. They would do better to just leave thiese "ladies" alone.

You do not think it would even be close ?

not even by the old book standards. Man, I actually ran a game a few years ago and these guys were powered and well armed. The Shemarrians flattened my group and fast.

I reserve these "ladies" for serious serious serious times. These ladies can take on Repo Bots and would be a good fight for Cosmic Knights. They are the serious thing, and I can only imagine the upgrades since the Old Sourcebook. Uh uh.

Shark_Force · Unread post by **Shark_Force** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:50 am

disclaimer: not fully up-to-date on shemarrians, this is just what i can remember. a battle squad of shemarrian i am assuming to include a few shemarrian on monst-rex?

well, dog packwould be terrible vs them, that's for sure. not enough oomph (in weapons or armor)

regular grunts would likely not do well. better than dog pack at least, but not well.

likewise with skelebots; they're dealing with mobile, heavily armored opponents that will be using intelligent tactics. indeed, it's basically like pitting skelebots against smarter, faster skelebots with substantially heavier weapons (and iirc tougher)

samas might perform decently. by which i mean, the better samas will probably not all die without killing even one of the shemarrians. heck, it might even be close on a 1:1 basis... depends on who detects who first, really. i would give the advantage to the shemarrians on that; flying opponents are a lot easier to spot, in general.

truth be told, i'm not sure the CS really has anything competitive with the shemarrians 1:1 even their big, heavy 'bots will have a hard time, imo. maybe if they used their airforce purely to deploy medium/long range missiles against any combat... yeah, that might do it. it would at least force the shemarrians to not stick around, might give them a bit of a hard time. at least, as long as the aircraft stay higher than the shemarrians can shoot, and don't get taken down by shemarrian missiles (i seem to recall hearing the shemarrians did pick up some anti-air weaponry, yes? if not, i'm sure ARCHIE would give them something, heck, probably already has something they could use)

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:54 am

Shark_Force wrote:
samas might perform decently. by which i mean, the better samas will probably not all die without killing even one of the shemarrians. heck, it might even be close on a 1:1 basis... depends on who detects who first, really. i would give the advantage to the shemarrians on that; flying opponents are a lot easier to spot, in general.

Not to mention the Noise of the Jet engines would alert the Shemarrians before the Samas seen them least thats how I see it .. considering that I live between Eglin Air Force Base and Hurlburt Air force Base .. when the Jets take off I can hear them for miles ..

Crucible · Unread post by **Crucible** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:57 am

Shark_Force wrote:disclaimer: not fully up-to-date on shemarrians, this is just what i can remember. a battle squad of shemarrian i am assuming to include a few shemarrian on monst-rex?

well, dog packwould be terrible vs them, that's for sure. not enough oomph (in weapons or armor)

regular grunts would likely not do well. better than dog pack at least, but not well.

likewise with skelebots; they're dealing with mobile, heavily armored opponents that will be using intelligent tactics. indeed, it's basically like pitting skelebots against smarter, faster skelebots with substantially heavier weapons (and iirc tougher)

samas might perform decently. by which i mean, the better samas will probably not all die without killing even one of the shemarrians. heck, it might even be close on a 1:1 basis... depends on who detects who first, really. i would give the advantage to the shemarrians on that; flying opponents are a lot easier to spot, in general.

truth be told, i'm not sure the CS really has anything competitive with the shemarrians 1:1 even their big, heavy 'bots will have a hard time, imo. maybe if they used their airforce purely to deploy medium/long range missiles against any combat... yeah, that might do it. it would at least force the shemarrians to not stick around, might give them a bit of a hard time. at least, as long as the aircraft stay higher than the shemarrians can shoot, and don't get taken down by shemarrian missiles (i seem to recall hearing the shemarrians did pick up some anti-air weaponry, yes? if not, i'm sure ARCHIE would give them something, heck, probably already has something they could use)

Dude, their rail gun is based on the Boom Gun...2d6x10 damage that means no less than twenty and on the average 60, max is 120 and crit is 240...then the range is 6000 and they have all types of targeting and whatnot and then you factor in that they don't just use their main body, but they get armor, the mounts are as agile as all get out. It would take some serious stuff to take them out. Seriously man. Serious. I'm serious. :eek:

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:01 am

Crucible wrote: Seriously man. Serious. I'm serious.

I do not understand .. just say what you mean .. juss messn heh.

Crucible · Unread post by **Crucible** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:04 am

Lenwen wrote:
Crucible wrote: Seriously man. Serious. I'm serious.

I do not understand .. just say what you mean .. juss messn heh.

AHA!!!

Shark_Force · Unread post by **Shark_Force** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:33 am

Crucible wrote:Dude, their rail gun is based on the Boom Gun...2d6x10 damage that means no less than twenty and on the average 60, max is 120 and crit is 240...then the range is 6000 and they have all types of targeting and whatnot and then you factor in that they don't just use their main body, but they get armor, the mounts are as agile as all get out. It would take some serious stuff to take them out. Seriously man. Serious. I'm serious.

actually, the average of 2d6x10 is 70

and i understand that. but there's still missiles. it's not like the CS is riding around on bicycles using sharpened broomsticks for a lance and a garbage can lid for a shield, you know

probably the main thing the shemarrians lack is an air force, to my knowledge. without one, they will have problems. if the CS just puts an aircraft 5 miles up and fires missiles at anything their ground troops find while their ground troops (which will have to be pretty much entirely composed of fast, mobile units) run away, the shemarrians will need something to deal with that.

Ziggurat the Eternal · Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:40 am

How bout anti-gravity Monst-Rex of doom?

Shark_Force · Unread post by **Shark_Force** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:50 am

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:How bout anti-gravity Monst-Rex of doom?

i believe at that point ARCHIE would be making it pretty obvious that the shemarrians are something to be investigated... as i recall, one of his big goals is to not get noticed.

though, as i said, i rather expect ARCHIE has at least something in the way of missile launchers that can fire medium missiles. that would be much less attention-getting, and would certainly cause a problem. even if the shemarrians don't have them now, they could eventually get them, if they needed.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:46 am

Shark_Force wrote:
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:How bout anti-gravity Monst-Rex of doom?

i believe at that point ARCHIE would be making it pretty obvious that the shemarrians are something to be investigated... as i recall, one of his big goals is to not get noticed.

though, as i said, i rather expect ARCHIE has at least something in the way of missile launchers that can fire medium missiles. that would be much less attention-getting, and would certainly cause a problem. even if the shemarrians don't have them now, they could eventually get them, if they needed.

Considering that Archie has already at LEAST 1 Sub that is undetectable .. when in deep waters .. And knowing what the US had in terms of Submarine warfare capabilities ..

Its easy to surmise that Archie very well could produce a Missle Sub .. that could very concievably .. launch long range MLRS .. And considering he has up to the nano second information about his neck of the woods due to the Satalite feed .. it would not even require any other resources to target what ever he wanted to shoot those MLRS at.

He could do this from either the Atlantic Ocean or the Greatlakes .. and hit anywhere in the continental United States .. I believe or close to it.. with out raising 1 eyebrow .. how can you track something that launched a missle from over 500 miles away .. with pin point presision .. and still hope to get there in time .. before what ever it was is gone ..

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:16 pm

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:
Lenwen wrote:1 Typical Light seek an destroy squad 5-8 members .. according to pg 26.

What would it take for the Coalition or the Free Quebec forces need to take this group out ?

A squad(10) of Hellraisers woud be more than a match for 5-8 Shemarrian's.

How would that squad (10) of Hellraisers be against that of an equal Squad of Shamarrians (10) ?

Crucible · Unread post by **Crucible** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:50 pm

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:
Lenwen wrote:1 Typical Light seek an destroy squad 5-8 members .. according to pg 26.

What would it take for the Coalition or the Free Quebec forces need to take this group out ?

A squad(10) of Hellraisers woud be more than a match for 5-8 Shemarrian's.

They would be near scrap by the time they got close enough.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:52 pm

Crucible wrote:
Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:
Lenwen wrote:1 Typical Light seek an destroy squad 5-8 members .. according to pg 26.

What would it take for the Coalition or the Free Quebec forces need to take this group out ?

A squad(10) of Hellraisers woud be more than a match for 5-8 Shemarrian's.

They would be near scrap by the time they got close enough.

Explain ?

Crucible · Unread post by **Crucible** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:59 pm

Lenwen wrote:
Crucible wrote:
Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:
Lenwen wrote:1 Typical Light seek an destroy squad 5-8 members .. according to pg 26.

What would it take for the Coalition or the Free Quebec forces need to take this group out ?

A squad(10) of Hellraisers woud be more than a match for 5-8 Shemarrian's.

They would be near scrap by the time they got close enough.

Explain ?

Hellraisers (10) would have to get close in order to be effective. the Rail Gun does 2d6x10 and has 6000ft range (over two miles). The HR's would already be damaged by the time they got close enough.

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:00 pm

Lenwen wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:How bout anti-gravity Monst-Rex of doom?

i believe at that point ARCHIE would be making it pretty obvious that the shemarrians are something to be investigated... as i recall, one of his big goals is to not get noticed.

though, as i said, i rather expect ARCHIE has at least something in the way of missile launchers that can fire medium missiles. that would be much less attention-getting, and would certainly cause a problem. even if the shemarrians don't have them now, they could eventually get them, if they needed.

Considering that Archie has already at LEAST 1 Sub that is undetectable .. when in deep waters .. And knowing what the US had in terms of Submarine warfare capabilities ..

Its easy to surmise that Archie very well could produce a Missle Sub .. that could very concievably .. launch long range MLRS .. And considering he has up to the nano second information about his neck of the woods due to the Satalite feed .. it would not even require any other resources to target what ever he wanted to shoot those MLRS at.

He could do this from either the Atlantic Ocean or the Greatlakes .. and hit anywhere in the continental United States .. I believe or close to it.. with out raising 1 eyebrow .. how can you track something that launched a missle from over 500 miles away .. with pin point presision .. and still hope to get there in time .. before what ever it was is gone ..

An A.I. missile sub!?!? Good thing Arcie and Hagan haven't come p w/ THAT one yet, goodbye Spluggies, we'll just drop ballistic missiles on you.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:04 pm

Crucible wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Crucible wrote:
Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:
Lenwen wrote:1 Typical Light seek an destroy squad 5-8 members .. according to pg 26.

What would it take for the Coalition or the Free Quebec forces need to take this group out ?

A squad(10) of Hellraisers woud be more than a match for 5-8 Shemarrian's.

They would be near scrap by the time they got close enough.

Explain ?

Hellraisers (10) would have to get close in order to be effective. the Rail Gun does 2d6x10 and has 6000ft range (over two miles). The HR's would already be damaged by the time they got close enough.

5'280 ft = 1 mile.

So thier weapons can hit at just over a mile by 800ish ft give or take..

EDIT: But I see what your saying

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:08 pm

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:6000ft is just over a mile in distance, and the Hellraisers are fast enough to cover a distance gap no problem.

Perhaps in a straight line no obsticales in thier way absolsolutly .. no arguement from me ..

But when your talking about out in the field of battle . Distance is king .. Especially if you have the weaponry to cover said distance.

I've seen this in several War's now .. in real life .. I do not expect that to change in the world of rifts talking about a battle type scenario.

If you understand me .

G · Unread post by G » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:28 pm

Checkout the squad I ceated when I got the new book.

http://theleynet.awardspace.com/shem.html

Perhaps you will see why it will be slightly difficult?

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:45 pm

The only thing the Hellraiser has going for it is the three Short Range Missiles. The armor is good at 690 MDC, but that won't last against the Shemarrians guns.

Personally, I'd send a small team of Hellraisers as a distraction, to cover the volleys of DOOM coming from a few Mark IX Missile Launchers and CS Nightwing aircraft (see Mercs for both). But then again, I don't play fair.

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:15 pm

Inverse wrote:
Mack wrote:The only thing the Hellraiser has going for it is the three Short Range Missiles. The armor is good at 690 MDC, but that won't last against the Shemarrians guns.

Personally, I'd send a small team of Hellraisers as a distraction, to cover the volleys of DOOM coming from a few Mark IX Missile Launchers and CS Nightwing aircraft (see Mercs for both). But then again, I don't play fair.

I agree
Battlespace tech plus smart arty munitions equals win.
Oh and don't say you don't play fair, just say you subscribe to the philosophy of Sun-Tzu.

Sun-Tzu, with a bit of Clauswitz for flavor.

Balabanto · Unread post by **Balabanto** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:57 am

8 Special Forces Striker Samas. That's what the Coalition needs. 8 Volleys of 8 Missiles. Kiss 5 things goodbye. 8 volleys of 6 missiles on the next round. Kiss 2 things goodbye. 3 samas are dead by now, so that's 5 volleys of 6 missiles against two targets, maybe one.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:29 am

Why is it in EVERY post such as this .. "Some" fans of Palladium .. Think the Mini missles are actually going to hit EVERY time ?

You ALL should already know that Mini missles .. are not smart .. You point an shoot at a given target .. if the target moves in the slightest .. guess what .. You miss an they only take "Blast Radius" damage .. which is then ONLY taken off of the Main Body of what ever is hit in the blast radius ..

It seems to me that everyone .. wants to think the Mini missles are such a huge inconcievable advantage .. that they are auto hits ..

They are not .. an it takes aprox 1 melee action to get outta thier "Direct" hit status .. And only take half damage if you Roll with damage .. an that is also AFTER .. your only taking Main Body Damage for being in a "Blast radius" only .. damage..

Mini missles = Point an shoot .. They simply go straight .. do not turn, do not change speeds, Thier not even Self propelled .. Thier Shot .. like a rail gun round .. thats it ..

This makes me laugh when I see people try to rely upon the mini missle like it was the best thing in the entire game ..

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:57 am

Inverse wrote:
Gryphon wrote:Hellraiser...what is this thing for again? Nearly 700 MDC, 90 mph and SRMs is sort of nice, but it only gets three of them (even though they look like MRMs to me), and its next nearest long range weapon is 3K and deals a whopping 4D6. So again, why?

They needed a cool picture for the cover.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:10 am

Inverse wrote:
People like large numbers of mini missiles because it allows you to fire "volleys" of them (with the juicy no dodge volley rules). You can do this with other missile but mecha carry far more mini missiles so you can do it more often.

So what happens when a "No Dodge" Volley .. is shot at an OCC who "ALWAYS" gets a Dodge .. or "Auto" Dodge ?

There in lies the REAL question ..

Defenders win ties remember ..

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:33 am

Inverse wrote:
1st apparently as of CWC on the CS mini-missiles are self guiding, look at the missile rifle on page 95.

Its been updated as per Rue ..

Rue pg# 365 wrote:Mini-Missles
The Mini-Missle is not self-guided.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:37 am

Inverse wrote:
Second an auto dodge allows the character to dodge without using up an attack, not dodge any attack. For instance you cannot auto dodge someone trying to dominate you with a spell.

Well said

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:02 am

Ok .. I'll play this game ..

Inverse wrote:
So the base rules overrule the additions in the world books?

Rue came out AFTER CWC .. henceforth it is the authorative book out of the two ...

Inverse wrote:
So lets take an example. Lets look at page 271 RUE and the radar range of 40 miles for power armor.
Now remember the description of that section "All Power Armor have the following features"
Does that mean all the Triax power armors have been upgraded from its 30 mile range?

We shall see when the New Triax Book comes out..

Inverse wrote:
Personally I think that the various source books take precedence.

Good for you . I take Rue rules as the Difinitive source as it was supposed to be taken. When such rules conflict with written rules of other books.

When some rules do not specify clearly in Rue .. revert back to which ever sourcebook said rule is in .. which is the "NEWEST" as such most people tend to do.

Inverse wrote:
Oh and by the way Naruni not only makes guided mini missiles but SMART mini-missiles. Or I guess they used to until RUE came out

Naruni are not based in Rifts. You have to take this into account by default means thier tech is obviously better then that of Rifts based civilizations such as the Coalition. (Which is stated in every friggen book either entity is mentioned in which is canon)

And as such since they are not a Rifts based Civilization they are there for exempt from the Rifts Rue Rulings in terms of Tech based abilities .. you must there for fall to thier default setting which is in fact Phase World. Which is get this part now .. this is the deep part here now -- > More Advanced < -- then Rifts Earth counter part tech. Especially that of the Coalition. (this part is important as due to the fact that you pointed out a CS based Mini-Missle Rifle as your end all means of trying to imply something that I clearly shown was not what you thought it was)

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:29 am

Inverse wrote:
Lenwen wrote:[We shall see when the New Triax Book comes out..

A complete copout as triax 2 is a mythical entity. Do they get the extra range of radar and do they loose their other features?

Lenwen wrote:Naruni are not based in Rifts. You have to take this into account by default means thier tech is obviously better then that of Rifts based civilizations such as the Coalition. (Which is stated in every friggen book either entity is mentioned in which is canon)

And as such since they are not a Rifts based Civilization they are there for exempt from the Rifts Rue Rulings in terms of Tech based abilities .. you must there for fall to thier default setting which is in fact Phase World. Which is get this part now .. this is the deep part here now -- > More Advanced < -- then Rifts Earth counter part tech. Especially that of the Coalition. (this part is important as due to the fact that you pointed out a CS based Mini-Missle Rifle as your end all means of trying to imply something that I clearly shown was not what you thought it was)

Yes Naruni has better tech, which is exactly what they were talking about in CWC, that the CS weapons tech had advanced. This is in fact exactly why I brought them up. In CWC it says that the CS weapons tech has become -- > More Advanced < -- (emphasis yours), forgive me for thinking that would mean they would have -- > More Advanced < -- (emphasis yours) weapons. Kinda like how you say having -- > More Advanced < -- (emphasis yours) technology has allowed Naruni to make -- > More Advanced < -- (emphasis yours) weapons.

Rue trumps CWC .. Mini-Missles = Not smart missles ..

Naruni = Not from Rifts .. Which means by default thier Home Setting "Phase World" is in fact where Their tech is governed ..

This is how it is.

Perhaps you should start a Thread titled ..

How/What in Rue .. is "Canon" and what can I merely Toss out because I do not like it .

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:03 am

Inverse wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Inverse wrote:
Lenwen wrote:[We shall see when the New Triax Book comes out..

A complete copout as triax 2 is a mythical entity. Do they get the extra range of radar and do they loose their other features?

Lenwen wrote:Naruni are not based in Rifts. You have to take this into account by default means thier tech is obviously better then that of Rifts based civilizations such as the Coalition. (Which is stated in every friggen book either entity is mentioned in which is canon)

And as such since they are not a Rifts based Civilization they are there for exempt from the Rifts Rue Rulings in terms of Tech based abilities .. you must there for fall to thier default setting which is in fact Phase World. Which is get this part now .. this is the deep part here now -- > More Advanced < -- then Rifts Earth counter part tech. Especially that of the Coalition. (this part is important as due to the fact that you pointed out a CS based Mini-Missle Rifle as your end all means of trying to imply something that I clearly shown was not what you thought it was)

Yes Naruni has better tech, which is exactly what they were talking about in CWC, that the CS weapons tech had advanced. This is in fact exactly why I brought them up. In CWC it says that the CS weapons tech has become -- > More Advanced < -- (emphasis yours), forgive me for thinking that would mean they would have -- > More Advanced < -- (emphasis yours) weapons. Kinda like how you say having -- > More Advanced < -- (emphasis yours) technology has allowed Naruni to make -- > More Advanced < -- (emphasis yours) weapons.

Rue trumps CWC .. Mini-Missles = Not smart missles ..

Naruni = Not from Rifts .. Which means by default thier Home Setting "Phase World" is in fact where Their tech is governed ..

This is how it is.

Perhaps you should start a Thread titled ..

How/What in Rue .. is "Canon" and what can I merely Toss out because I do not like it .

Bleh I will stop feeding the troll.

Nuthing to feed them with .. especially when your point has been proven wrong ..

:rolleyes:

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:21 am

Lenwen wrote:
Inverse wrote:Bleh I will stop feeding the troll.

Nuthing to feed them with .. especially when your point has been proven wrong ..

NOTICE TO POSTERS.

The above two posts are pointless, rude, and trolling. They are a perfect example of behavior that is not allowed on this message board. In both cases, the poster would be much better served by simply not posting at all. The best rule of thumb is to always address the subject, not the poster.

This behavior may result in administrative action.

Dog_O_War · Unread post by **Dog_O_War** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:52 am

Gryphon wrote:Rules Question: Can you Roll with Punch, Fall, Impact versus:
Fragmentation
High Explosive
Plasma
AP
You might say yes out of hand, others disagree, so I am curious what answers I get to this.

Yes. You can roll with ANYTHING. Even if you wasted an action to dodge.

Gryphon wrote:Regardless of the method used to aim a mini missile, and regardless of the number fired, you can attempt a dodge. If an Ultimax fires all 32 minis at you at once, you may attempt a dodge to get out of the way,

No you can't. Missile volleys of 4 or more are undodgeable.

Shades of Eternity · Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:46 pm

but missiles can be shot out of the air, and in a standard squad, everybody gets a shot.

Combined with an average 70 damage, great range and the fact that when one missile goes boom, the others often follow means there is a good chance the missiles don't do anything.

Dog_O_War · Unread post by **Dog_O_War** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:58 pm

Shades of Eternity wrote:but missiles can be shot out of the air, and in a standard squad, everybody gets a shot.

Combined with an average 70 damage, great range and the fact that when one missile goes boom, the others often follow means there is a good chance the missiles don't do anything.

Yes, this is very true. Infact, only one Shemarrian would have to be on missile duty depending on how close the volley is grouped; if "she" is equiped with a weapon capable of bursts, "she" can burst on an area, which is an automatic hit - and covers an area!

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:24 pm

Dog_O_War wrote:
Shades of Eternity wrote:but missiles can be shot out of the air, and in a standard squad, everybody gets a shot.

Combined with an average 70 damage, great range and the fact that when one missile goes boom, the others often follow means there is a good chance the missiles don't do anything.

Yes, this is very true. Infact, only one Shemarrian would have to be on missile duty depending on how close the volley is grouped; if "she" is equiped with a weapon capable of bursts, "she" can burst on an area, which is an automatic hit - and covers an area!

Oh man are you serious ?

They can burst thier rail gun rounds in the direction of the Mini-Missles .. and auto hits them to take them out ?
This would change some of the Dynamic's of the game for my PC's as I never thought about this very aspect ..

Killer Cyborg · Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:31 pm

Lenwen wrote:
Dog_O_War wrote:
Shades of Eternity wrote:but missiles can be shot out of the air, and in a standard squad, everybody gets a shot.

Combined with an average 70 damage, great range and the fact that when one missile goes boom, the others often follow means there is a good chance the missiles don't do anything.

Yes, this is very true. Infact, only one Shemarrian would have to be on missile duty depending on how close the volley is grouped; if "she" is equiped with a weapon capable of bursts, "she" can burst on an area, which is an automatic hit - and covers an area!

Oh man are you serious ?

They can burst thier rail gun rounds in the direction of the Mini-Missles .. and auto hits them to take them out ?
This would change some of the Dynamic's of the game for my PC's as I never thought about this very aspect ..

If you're going with the old burst/spray rules, I can see that as a valid interpretation of things.
Personally, I assume that the "hits x targets" part of the Spray description means that you get to make strike rolls against that many targets in the area, but I freely admit that the book doesn't actually say this.

Killer Cyborg · Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:32 pm

Dog_O_War wrote:Missile volleys of 4 or more are undodgeable.

That only applies to guided missiles, and mini-missiles are unguided.

Killer Cyborg · Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:33 pm

Dog_O_War wrote:
Gryphon wrote:Rules Question: Can you Roll with Punch, Fall, Impact versus:
Fragmentation
High Explosive
Plasma
AP
You might say yes out of hand, others disagree, so I am curious what answers I get to this.

Yes. You can roll with ANYTHING. Even if you wasted an action to dodge.

Hm.
I wouldn't say you could roll with plasma or armor piercing.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:26 pm

Killer Cyborg wrote:
Dog_O_War wrote:Missile volleys of 4 or more are undodgeable.

That only applies to guided missiles, and mini-missiles are unguided.

Thats a true story ..

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:59 pm

I think FQ would have the better odds, afterall, they can field Glitterboys in large numbers.

1 to 1 a GB is a pretty decent match for the Shemarrian. The GB has more armour and more firepower and a limited flight capability. The Shemarrian is more mobile and isn't relying on laser weaponry.At that point it's going to come down to who is going to be better at forcing the other into fighting their kind of fight.

If you start dealing with mixed teams of diverse Shemarrian types and diverse FQ GB types, it will probably begin to favour the Glitterboys. Their superiority at long range will be augmented by the Sidekick or Tarantuala at close range, keeping the Shemarrians from having total domination once the fight gets tight.

Of course if the Shemarrians can get to melee, especially if they are still on the Monst-rexes or their force includes Beserkers, the GB force is toast.

Other than that, the human forces will need either overwhelming numerical advantage or will just have to blast the heck out of them from a mile or more up with air power.

Balabanto · Unread post by **Balabanto** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:18 pm

Lenwen wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
Dog_O_War wrote:Missile volleys of 4 or more are undodgeable.

That only applies to guided missiles, and mini-missiles are unguided.

Thats a true story ..

That is incorrect. All volleys of 4 missiles or more are undodgable. Only Guided Missiles have no need to roll to strike.

Killer Cyborg · Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:45 pm

Balabanto wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
Dog_O_War wrote:Missile volleys of 4 or more are undodgeable.

That only applies to guided missiles, and mini-missiles are unguided.

Thats a true story ..

That is incorrect. All volleys of 4 missiles or more are undodgable. Only Guided Missiles have no need to roll to strike.

Congratulations.
Ya just managed to be wrong three times in one post.
:bandit:

Balabanto · Unread post by **Balabanto** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:45 am

Missile Volleys (Page 364)

Contrary to what one might think, a character can dodge even one, two, or three guided missiles. The dodge rules are the same as always. However, it is impossible to dodge a volley of four or more missiles fired simultaneously.

Whether or not the missiles are guided is irrelevant.

The second and third sentences are not informed by the first, otherwise, the third sentence would have specified that the rule only applies to guided missiles. The heading reads "Missile Volleys", not "Guided Missile Volleys" It doesn't matter whether the missiles are guided or not.

What it means. If someone should fire a volley of missiles at you that has 12 missiles in it, and you only shoot down half the volley, you still can't dodge it and take the rest. If the volley has six missiles in it and you shoot down three, you can dodge it. There's a couple things out there that can fire 48 missiles in a single volley. (Why they would, I don't know, but it would have to be really big, and if it lived, I would run away. Immediately...)

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:28 am

My take on 4+ missles fired simo style ..

If you burst shot in thier general area .. your going to hit one of them if you're lucky and then when that one is hit an destroyed its taking all others with it .. in its blast radius .
(Which should be larger then the total amount of missles being fired which means 99% of the time the others are now taken out as well)

Crucible · Unread post by **Crucible** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:55 am

Sorry about the 1 mile/2 mile mix up. Nearly 3 days without sleep. Bills will take you there sometimes.

I still say that in a regular situation where the CS attacks the Shemarrians, the chances of the She's surviving are extremely high.

Seriously.

The reason that I say so is that the same guys who went up against the CS (a pretty well armed group) got wasted by the She's and I totally didn't expect it.

Seriously.

You guys need to play this out a few times and you'll see what I mean.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:58 am

Crucible wrote:
Seriously.

I do not think that word means .. What you think it means ..