Bringing The Ban Hammer Down on Races

[Ale Golem]

My group is planning for another Rifts game that will start up within the next couple months and as usual I'm being an indecisive schmuck when it comes to picking my race. Our group met up the other night and began pouring over various opies of D-Bees of North America and I pulled my head out of the book to proclaim that I thought I might want to play a Butter Troll. The GM stated no one could play a Butter Troll becuase they were, in his opinion, stupid. I dive back into the book and declare that the M'Raghiile are bad ass and they'd be sweet to play, a decisive no comes back from across the room along with a notebook that lists all races that have been denied out of the book due to power, level of civilized advancement, sillyness and/or anything that generally reminded him of a furry. Looking over the list I found some I agreed with (Floopers, Sasquatch, etc.) and some I did not (Vernulians, M'Raghiile, Bayou Ursines, etc.). We work with what we have and he's the GM so it's his game to run as he sees fit. This got me wondering though if other GM's have certain races that they just wil not allow under any circumstances and why.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

There is not a single race that is banned all the time. A few races are banned most of the time, but not a whole gigantic list. Sheesh.

~ Josh

[Cybermancer]

It depends on the game.

Sometimes I'll allow anything.

Often times I'm much more restrictive. I've even run games where only humans were allowed.

It all depends on what's going on for that particular game.

[Balabanto]

Here's my list:

18) Banned OCC and RCCs: Secondary Vampire, Wild Vampire, Chihacoatl/Vernulian, All Werepeople (Wolf, Horse, Cow, Sheep, Dragon, I don’t care), Shaydor Spherian, Shaydorian Intel, Zembahk RCC (Not Roleplayable), Sunaj Assassin, Star Child, Amorph, Temporal Mage, Temporal Warrior, Demon-Dragonmage, Yhabbayar, Arkhons (All), Demigod, Godling, Daitya, Norse Giant, Greater Cyclops, Purcara Giant and Mind Mage, Serpentoid, Mutant Capybara, Falconoid, Phoenixi, Nymph, Pixie, Amaki Stone Man Demon Queller, Amaki Stone Man Mega Juicer, Sphinx, Monster Were-Dragon, Hidden Witch, Flying Tiger, Murder Mage, Dirari Ecto-men, Lanotaur Hunter
19) Restricted OCCs: Maxi-Man (Must buy all XP back, 1st level has 25 percent penalty), Corrupt (Reformed Only), Asgardian Dwarf (Very Few Exist),, Dakini, Kwarla (All), Shadow People, Psi-Slayer. If your RCC +OCC is ridiculous, you get an XP penalty assigned by the GM!

Yes. It's a fairly long list. Many of these classes require too much work as a GM to compensate for, especially werecreatures. It's one thing for a player group to face werecreatures. But in Rifts, where PC's kill most of their enemies, the chances of people discovering the weakness of a werecreature in time to harm him is so low that the character is not in any real danger.

People look at the list and say "Sunaj? Why?" And the answer is "Because according to the text, you're not supposed to know about the Sunaj and what they are. Giving out all that info for free ICly can really screw a game up."

In general, when I ban a race, I say "Okay. How much fun is it going to be for OTHER PLAYERS to play a game with this creature in it?"

If the answer is "I think the game will be less fun" then it goes on the banned list.

[Corinth]

I do routinely ban everything that isn't human from the list of allowed player-characters, and that includes Dog Boys when it's not a Coalition-specific game.

[Kagashi]

I dont ban anything as a GM, as long as:

1) the player can handle the role playing for the OCC, RCC, or item
2) its understood that if you have it...the NPCs can as well
3) it doesn't contradict the current campaign (I simply will not allow a character who is deathly afraid of chickens in a group made up of mutant chickens.)

So, you can play your Floopers and Rahu-men in my game.

[The Beast]

Here's my list:

18) Banned OCC and RCCs: Secondary Vampire, Wild Vampire, Chihacoatl/Vernulian, All Werepeople (Wolf, Horse, Cow, Sheep, Dragon, I don’t care), Shaydor Spherian, Shaydorian Intel, Zembahk RCC (Not Roleplayable), Sunaj Assassin, Star Child, Amorph, Temporal Mage, Temporal Warrior, Demon-Dragonmage, Yhabbayar, Arkhons (All), Demigod, Godling, Daitya, Norse Giant, Greater Cyclops, Purcara Giant and Mind Mage, Serpentoid, Mutant Capybara, Falconoid, Phoenixi, Nymph, Pixie, Amaki Stone Man Demon Queller, Amaki Stone Man Mega Juicer, Sphinx, Monster Were-Dragon, Hidden Witch, Flying Tiger, Murder Mage, Dirari Ecto-men, Lanotaur Hunter
19) Restricted OCCs: Maxi-Man (Must buy all XP back, 1st level has 25 percent penalty), Corrupt (Reformed Only), Asgardian Dwarf (Very Few Exist),, Dakini, Kwarla (All), Shadow People, Psi-Slayer. If your RCC +OCC is ridiculous, you get an XP penalty assigned by the GM!

I don't see Dwarven Titan Juicer-turned-Murder Wraith on the list...

[MikelAmroni]

Personally I tend to base what is and is not available based on the game. In a low level merc/adventurer game, the worst you are going to have is a minor MDC race, likely only high SDC races. Sorry, no werecritters without one heck of a good story. That, by the way, is the biggest caveat. If you sell me on the story (and I don't mean just make it plausible, I mean sell me), then I'll let you play anything you want to come up In godsquad games the gloves come off, and I warn against things like humans and elves. CS Games allow only three races, and only a certain amount of two of them (unless its a Dogboy game, only one or two are going to be mutants). Low level Phase World is going to be more forgiving than low level Rifts Earth.

In general I try and make sure no one actually discounts just playing a human or an elf or a dwarf. I prefer monstrous characters to be the exception in a group, not the group itself (with humans on the outs). Of course I have the same mindset towards OCCs. Glitterboy has more chance of being in a Merc game than in a adventurer game (except for good back stories). Juicers are a 0-1 choice (sorry, Warhammer reference - basically no more than one per group, and there is a limit on such heavy combat characters, usually no more than 25% of the group). Crazies, special forces, commandos, borgs, and the like are all in the same group.

[Balabanto]

Here's my list:

18) Banned OCC and RCCs: Secondary Vampire, Wild Vampire, Chihacoatl/Vernulian, All Werepeople (Wolf, Horse, Cow, Sheep, Dragon, I don’t care), Shaydor Spherian, Shaydorian Intel, Zembahk RCC (Not Roleplayable), Sunaj Assassin, Star Child, Amorph, Temporal Mage, Temporal Warrior, Demon-Dragonmage, Yhabbayar, Arkhons (All), Demigod, Godling, Daitya, Norse Giant, Greater Cyclops, Purcara Giant and Mind Mage, Serpentoid, Mutant Capybara, Falconoid, Phoenixi, Nymph, Pixie, Amaki Stone Man Demon Queller, Amaki Stone Man Mega Juicer, Sphinx, Monster Were-Dragon, Hidden Witch, Flying Tiger, Murder Mage, Dirari Ecto-men, Lanotaur Hunter
19) Restricted OCCs: Maxi-Man (Must buy all XP back, 1st level has 25 percent penalty), Corrupt (Reformed Only), Asgardian Dwarf (Very Few Exist),, Dakini, Kwarla (All), Shadow People, Psi-Slayer. If your RCC +OCC is ridiculous, you get an XP penalty assigned by the GM!

I don't see Dwarven Titan Juicer-turned-Murder Wraith on the list...

That's because the book doesn't allow Murder Wraiths as PC's. So I don't have to list it.

[rat_bastard]

I have a list of encouraged races, but not so much a list of banned races. I suppose it would be a case by case basis.

[Danger]

Our New West GM had the following list of allowable races:

Human
Dog-Boy
Mutant Rat
Psi-Stalker

[Mech-Viper Prime]

As long as I get a good backstory about how the being got there then i'm ok with it.

but i do see the reason why an GM might not allow certain types vs get some md creature running around in a glitterboy armor

[runebeo]

We only banned Cosmo Knights and Psi-Ghosts. The Cosmo Knight is retardedly overpowered to play in the Rifts setting. Can fire energy blast for a few hundred M.D. with a range over a mile and with the weapon upgrade the range jumps to over 3 miles.

The Psi-Ghost is ban for reckoning our dungeon crawling games by just going to the end and grabbing the item and bypassing all the traps. Just did not gel into our group and was a hassle for our GM to deal with. Just too useful to have around lol.

[Balabanto]

On Rifts Earth, a Cosmo Knight is doomed. Vulnerable to Magic + Targeted Deflection + House of Glass=Toast.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

On Rifts Earth, a Cosmo Knight is doomed. Vulnerable to Magic + Targeted Deflection + House of Glass=Toast.

or for ease of use/ no way to save vs spell/ fun: Railgun/Missile/SN P.S. cosmoknights are easy-shmeasy. not nearly the game wreakers most people think of. I think most people get stuck on the whole out-gunning starships thing way to much. that said, cosmoknight will ruin a game of vagabonds and rouge scientists.

Interestingly, I only ban one of anything, vagabonds. Which is kewlioz, 'cuz no-one I game with has ever Played one. Which is wierd 'Cuz I allow PCC's to take this OCC so they can acctually have-you know- SKILLS. But I only allow PCC's to take it for its skill set and Equiptment list. Oh and superheroes. Other wise an plain old normal human with high level skills of utility, powerful ability, or at least average equiptment, much less combat ability seems to last long, and is generally seen as a hinderence.

[Talavar]

There aren't many I would ban - mainly MDC & supernaturally strong D-bees that can also wear human-sized armour & nearly pass for human, and characters who can do almost anything. Something like a Grackletooth, sure it's got natural MD & supernatural strength, but it's also a challenge for it to get any armour, and it can't have magic or psionics, so it's reasonably balanced.

Generally out are things like Lanotaur Hunters (oh, you want to be a mega-juicer psi-stalker mystic? Not on my ship) and Demon dragon-mages, who are naturally MD, with supernatural strength, magic and psionics. Leave something for other people to do.

[runebeo]

On Rifts Earth, a Cosmo Knight is doomed. Vulnerable to Magic + Targeted Deflection + House of Glass=Toast.

Sure that hurts him, but their tough and very high bio-regeneration. They can survive the damage dealt back to them with House of glass and Target Deflection does not make the energy magical. Once he knows you can hurt him with House of Glass he can fly the mage into space to either suffocate or freeze, on Rifts earth with its killer satellites be best to drag the mage deep into the ocean for the pressure to take care of him. Their noble heroes so they would most likely capture the mage. One of their powers is fly at Mach speeds so they can create a sonic boom whenever they want to disorientate a foe and by not using their armor they could surprise their opponent in compromising position. A mage needs the benefit of being within a few hundred feet of the knight to use his spells and the knight has the benefit of within two actions of being a few miles away and still being able to blast away. Doomed on Rifts Earth I think not.

[The Dark Elf]

I wouldnt allow AI's but.... if I was playing a risk type game with the Rifts earth world I could imagine a cool time....

Ok I changed my mind I allow anything as long as all the PC's are balanced accordingly to suit the "type" of campaign. (ie all a Similar power level)

[Balabanto]

With the right spells...a mage can do just about anything.

If he's got all four invisibilities and Aura of Death, it doesn't matter what the Cosmoknight does. The engagement will take place at a range of the mage's choosing. Simple Invisibility, Aura of Death, Invisibility to Sensors, and Mystic Invisibility, Plus Superior Invisibility to choose your range.

Carpet of Adhesion, as Ninjabunny was so kind to point out, is extremely handy, but I would actually come within six inches of the cosmoknight since I'm undetectable by everything, and whisper the Word of Death into his ear afterwards. If I have my invincible armor spell and all my other protections in place, I can actually have MORE armor than the Cosmoknight. Remember, a Ley Line Walker can learn ANY spell. That includes Armor of Neptune and Armor Bizarre, which means that I can breathe in space and he has to make HF saves once per round. Beating the temperature thing is a little harder, but as long as I can find some way to get back into the atmosphere after I kill him, so what? And with Invulnerability, it actually doesn't matter how much damage the Cosmo-Knight does with his blasts. It deals ZERO. That's right. ZERO. Then you can make him walk in the World Bizarre, convince him that you are the Cosmic Forge (Charismatic Aura is STUPID), although that has only an 80 percent chance to work, or beat on him with summoned elementals from the warlock list until he dies.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

With the right spells...a mage can do just about anything.

yup,even lose the battle of tolkeen

[sHaka]

I don't think I'd ban anything really. As long as the player had a good rationale for it fitting into the group and campaign, has a cool concept or background and isn't blatantly constructing a munchkin, anything goes.

[Library Ogre]

Unless it's a high-power game, or I have a specific purpose for allowing them, I generally forbid True Atlanteans and Sea Titans... especially with Sea Titans, because they're written in such a way as to make any regular human superfluous... almost any concept, except for CS soldier, that you can do with a human works equally well with a Sea Titan.

[taalismn]

Floopers...Floopers must be mentioned...Floopers must be banned...
Just Because...

[The Baron of chaos]

Personally I think depend on the campaign, albeit this must be anyway at least advertised to players. Still players who can come out wiht plausible solution and explanation should be allowed to play the race they wish, provided they know how to handle the side effects that come(the most common the Drittz Complex but also Frankenstein Monster syndrome is known...).
And to point our some RCC are mostly NPC only. Floopers and Lanotaur were never truly meants to be average player character races, somethign for the most experienced and immaginative ones perhaps.
On side note what is this hatred for silly in Rifts? The crazies are the damn embodiments of it

[taalismn]

On side note what is this hatred for silly in Rifts? The crazies are the damn embodiments of it

"You got light hearted comedy in my dark apocalyptic setting!"
"You got dark apocalyptic setting in my light hearted comedy!"

Rifts---Two genres that go GREAT together...

[Ale Golem]

On side note what is this hatred for silly in Rifts? The crazies are the damn embodiments of it

"You got light hearted comedy in my dark apocalyptic setting!"
"You got dark apocalyptic setting in my light hearted comedy!"

Rifts---Two genres that go GREAT together...

Personally I never thought Crazies were supposed to be light hearted and funny. Granted at times they can be amusing and Shakes always seems to have a good one liner up his sleeve, but that is tempered by the fact that he's almost always serious about the nut job things he's spouting. Crazies are supposed to get scarier and sadder the further they progress along the xp chart. A properly played Crazy will leave nothing for the party to giggle at and in fact should make for more than a few uncomfortable moments......but that's just my two cents.

[Balabanto]

It depends on his delusions.

A properly played crazy should be sort of like this. "It's funny. But really, if you look at it a second time, it's not so funny."

[Killer Cyborg]

On side note what is this hatred for silly in Rifts? The crazies are the damn embodiments of it

Depends on the crazy in question and the style of play.
They can either be comedy relief, or gut-wrenching tragedy, or a mix of both.
Heck, at low levels they can even just be a fairly normal soldier with superhuman powers and maybe a phobia.

[Nekira Sudacne]

On Rifts Earth, a Cosmo Knight is doomed. Vulnerable to Magic + Targeted Deflection + House of Glass=Toast.

Querry: How is a cosmo knight any more doomed than, say, ANYONE ELSE in rifts earth with those spells used on them?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Also: I have no hard and fast list of banned OCC's and RCC's. It all depends on power level of the game and geography, much like Darklord said. Things I will ban in one game in the new west i'll allow in japan and vice versa.

[Greyaxe]

Here's my list: Zembahk RCC (Not Roleplayable)

Damn there goes my Swashbucking Zembahk named Tequila! All the ladies will miss him...

I'm with Cybermancer, all depends on the setting and what I am doing that game.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
I had a swashbucking Zembach named Tequilla. WHOOOOO Crazy guy.

On a side note nevel leave a zembach to man the raido.......

[DhAkael]

I am seriously thinking of banning Dragon Hatchlings permanently and for perpetuity.
Out of, oh, nearly a dozen players over 15 years (or more) I have had ONE count it ONE player ever be able to pull one off without annoying , angering or otherwise making the entire party want to turn it into a set of boots and lawn furniture.

Outside of that, if I don't have the book that a particular DB race is printed in, don't argue or beg me, cuz the bugger don't exist in my 'verse. Otherwise, I'm open to listen to a players' proposal.

[Tiree]

I am seriously thinking of banning Dragon Hatchlings permanently and for perpetuity.
Out of, oh, nearly a dozen players over 15 years (or more) I have had ONE count it ONE player ever be able to pull one off without annoying , angering or otherwise making the entire party want to turn it into a set of boots and lawn furniture.

Outside of that, if I don't have the book that a particular DB race is printed in, don't argue or beg me, cuz the bugger don't exist in my 'verse. Otherwise, I'm open to listen to a players' proposal.

This was the first race I banned when Rifts first came out. I went huh?!?! There are so many holes with playing a Hatchling RCC that most players and GM's alike can't take it well. Especially in my low XP based games.

But I'll allow races into my game based on merit of the player. But I generally only allow the following:

Human, Psi-Stalker, and Dog Boy. Atlantean's are up there depending on the power level of the group.

[Talavar]

In general I would say it depends on the setting, but then my preferred setting is North America where my belief is that RUE is supposed to represent the most common classes and races. WB 30 includes a lot of D-Bees. But if you read carefully, a lot of them are really rare, so much so that their numbers can be counted in mere dozens. That isn't what I would call "common" on a continent where there are still supposed to be several million humans living. So for a typical North America campaign, I feel it only proper to maintain the exotic feel of the D-Bee races and restrict PCs to those races available in RUE (human, dog boy, dragon, and psi-stalkers are considered a human sub-race now). The more common D-Bees, like Simvan and Brodkil, are typically savage and evil. They are the orcs and goblins of Rifts Earth so PCs don't get to play as those races.

And a lot of them are really common. From WB 30, there are an estimated 300 000 to 400 000 Vintex Warriors in North America, 500 000 to 800 000 Vanguard Brawlers, 65 000 Tokanni, a million Quick-Flex aliens, plus a variety of other D-bees like Larmac, Greot Hunters, D'nor Devilmen and others who aren't given a number estimate but seem pretty common from their descriptions.

There are definitely more Quick-flex aliens running around than dragon hatchlings, and probably more of all the D-bees I've listed above than Brodkil in North America.

[Library Ogre]

I am seriously thinking of banning Dragon Hatchlings permanently and for perpetuity.
Out of, oh, nearly a dozen players over 15 years (or more) I have had ONE count it ONE player ever be able to pull one off without annoying , angering or otherwise making the entire party want to turn it into a set of boots and lawn furniture.

Outside of that, if I don't have the book that a particular DB race is printed in, don't argue or beg me, cuz the bugger don't exist in my 'verse. Otherwise, I'm open to listen to a players' proposal.

To a degree, I think hatchling dragons SHOULD be annoying. I tend to view them as a combination of a kitten, a super-genius child, and a flying Mack Truck.

[Jay05]

Why in a setting and game system where nearly any character imaginable is creatable do so many GM's feel the need to ban rccs or occs at all? We live in a world of vanilla humanity what's wrong with wanting to play the truly EXTRAORDINARY in this wonderful form of escapist entertainment called rpgs?

[Danger]

I would ban certain races depending on the setting, and the player.

[The Baron of chaos]

I think that Danger essentially sum the entire thing.
not all campaign are fully playable by all RCC, and of cours enot all players are good enough to play a RCC with common sense. example a player who would just want to play a uber powerful RCC just to be the most powerful of the team.
Of Coruse being the Rifts earth what is it, every RCC and OCC ar epoetentially possible EVERYWHERE(sorry guys but the very idea of RIFTS make geographic limitations pointless). So unless one want to strip Rifts earth of everythign make it Rifts earth banning everything is not reasonable(if you ban every RCC but humans, elf and dwarf and Dog Boys, Why not playing Palladium Fantasy then? If all the team are tech based power armor pilot et similar, why not playing Robotech? Seriously sometimes I am puzzled why some GM want to make Rifts so non-Rifts. Said that certain race were meants just to add flavor or be NPC RCC, as they are too "alien" (extreme sillyness could be considered a form of being too alien, too) to be playable. And also check the campaign. If you don't like the idea of playing an all Coalition soldier campaign, well no body force you to do so, but you coudl give a try, (suggestion here, try to push your teamamtes to desert. Desertion make Coalition campaign hilarious and very fun.)

[Library Ogre]

Why in a setting and game system where nearly any character imaginable is creatable do so many GM's feel the need to ban rccs or occs at all? We live in a world of vanilla humanity what's wrong with wanting to play the truly EXTRAORDINARY in this wonderful form of escapist entertainment called rpgs?

Because, unless I'm interested in running an "anything goes" game, I generally have an idea of what kinds of characters will fit in. If we're playing a Coalition game, and you want to play a human Headhunter, I can work with that.... you might be a mercenary hired by the CS, or you might be a CS soldier whose particular skill-set more closely mimics a headhunter. That works. If you want to play a human Crazy who is secretly from the Robotech dimension and pilots a Cyclone, I can probably work with that... you're a mercenary who works with the CS. Not as easy to work in, but ok.

If you want to play a dragon hatchling, or a Sea Titan (who would normally stand out on psychic senses like a beacon), a True Atlantean (you know, the guys with MAGIC SKIN)... that's almost impossible to work into the story that I'm going with without making it into a far different story, especially if everyone else is playing a human, and your Sea Titan turns it into "Skippy the Sea Titan and his sidekicks."

Anything goes can be fun. But it's not every game.

[Jay05]

I think that Danger essentially sum the entire thing.
not all campaign are fully playable by all RCC, and of cours enot all players are good enough to play a RCC with common sense. example a player who would just want to play a uber powerful RCC just to be the most powerful of the team.
Of Coruse being the Rifts earth what is it, every RCC and OCC ar epoetentially possible EVERYWHERE(sorry guys but the very idea of RIFTS make geographic limitations pointless). So unless one want to strip Rifts earth of everythign make it Rifts earth banning everything is not reasonable(if you ban every RCC but humans, elf and dwarf and Dog Boys, Why not playing Palladium Fantasy then? If all the team are tech based power armor pilot et similar, why not playing Robotech? Seriously sometimes I am puzzled why some GM want to make Rifts so non-Rifts. Said that certain race were meants just to add flavor or be NPC RCC, as they are too "alien" (extreme sillyness could be considered a form of being too alien, too) to be playable. And also check the campaign. If you don't like the idea of playing an all Coalition soldier campaign, well no body force you to do so, but you coudl give a try, (suggestion here, try to push your teamamtes to desert. Desertion make Coalition campaign hilarious and very fun.)

I agree with everything you said here baron, not all players are good enough to correctly play a specific occ or rcc. However, how can a gm be sure of that unless a player is given the opportunity to do so? And your points on banning for geography or type ie only tech etc is exactly what I mean. And the deserter option is also true lol.

[runebeo]

I was thinking that it would be a bad idea to let a player play a Norse Giant, but we have one of player playing one on a somewhat limited basics and by using her magic to transform into a human or something less huge lol! She's fit in and has filled our need for powerful tank and our spell casting needs, since one of our regular player is gone till the fall. Like one other guy said Rifts is a game of endless possibilities why not included a super power 35 foot tall Ley Line Walker, where else are you going to get a chance to play something crazy like that.

[killhound]

i have a bull terrior made just for those gm's who like to ban races and occ's. we had a gm who liked to ban things mainly because he didn't have the brain power to deal with it. so in protest we all made a dog. so when he anounced a new campain i think it was a vampire hunt we brought fourth the dogs and for an entire game session we barked at each other he stoped gaming with us soon after.

[Jay05]

Why in a setting and game system where nearly any character imaginable is creatable do so many GM's feel the need to ban rccs or occs at all? We live in a world of vanilla humanity what's wrong with wanting to play the truly EXTRAORDINARY in this wonderful form of escapist entertainment called rpgs?

Because, unless I'm interested in running an "anything goes" game, I generally have an idea of what kinds of characters will fit in. If we're playing a Coalition game, and you want to play a human Headhunter, I can work with that.... you might be a mercenary hired by the CS, or you might be a CS soldier whose particular skill-set more closely mimics a headhunter. That works. If you want to play a human Crazy who is secretly from the Robotech dimension and pilots a Cyclone, I can probably work with that... you're a mercenary who works with the CS. Not as easy to work in, but ok.

If you want to play a dragon hatchling, or a Sea Titan (who would normally stand out on psychic senses like a beacon), a True Atlantean (you know, the guys with MAGIC SKIN)... that's almost impossible to work into the story that I'm going with without making it into a far different story, especially if everyone else is playing a human, and your Sea Titan turns it into "Skippy the Sea Titan and his sidekicks."

Anything goes can be fun. But it's not every game.

I understand your point, and it's as much a test of a player's versatility being able to come up with characters who fit with a gm's story basics for his/her game as it is a test of a gm's versatility to be able to run a game with a wide variety of occ/rcc power/ability level. But a gm should be clear what their expectations of character type are from the beginning,yes? Also, to use your analogy if the person playing "Skippy the Sea Titan" turns it into "The Skippy show" he/she is a crappy player who's an attention hound. Or the GM doesn't know how to handle players who get out of hand. What

I'm saying is, a skilled group of players should all be able to have their spotlight moments regardless of powers or skills. Right?

[Balabanto]

In general, I've noticed that people in my Rifts games like to play different stuff. As GMPCs, I have a lot of humans. But I have a few other rules that are unwritten. One of them is "You gotta play a human sooner or later. And if it's later rather than sooner, other people in the game may not like you as much."

[Library Ogre]

I understand your point, and it's as much a test of a player's versatility being able to come up with characters who fit with a gm's story basics for his/her game as it is a test of a gm's versatility to be able to run a game with a wide variety of occ/rcc power/ability level. But a gm should be clear what their expectations of character type are from the beginning,yes? Also, to use your analogy if the person playing "Skippy the Sea Titan" turns it into "The Skippy show" he/she is a crappy player who's an attention hound. Or the GM doesn't know how to handle players who get out of hand. What

I'm saying is, a skilled group of players should all be able to have their spotlight moments regardless of powers or skills. Right?

In theory, yes. However, if the GM sets for a certain power level, players should respect that, not insist that, since it's in a rulebook, they should be allowed to play it. The Game Master sets the tenor for any game he wants to run. He shouldn't dictatorially control players actions, but he should have the right to limit player choices at character creation.

[The Baron of chaos]

I understand your point, and it's as much a test of a player's versatility being able to come up with characters who fit with a gm's story basics for his/her game as it is a test of a gm's versatility to be able to run a game with a wide variety of occ/rcc power/ability level. But a gm should be clear what their expectations of character type are from the beginning,yes? Also, to use your analogy if the person playing "Skippy the Sea Titan" turns it into "The Skippy show" he/she is a crappy player who's an attention hound. Or the GM doesn't know how to handle players who get out of hand. What

I'm saying is, a skilled group of players should all be able to have their spotlight moments regardless of powers or skills. Right?

In theory, yes. However, if the GM sets for a certain power level, players should respect that, not insist that, since it's in a rulebook, they should be allowed to play it. The Game Master sets the tenor for any game he wants to run. He shouldn't dictatorially control players actions, but he should have the right to limit player choices at character creation.

And of course the PLayers should cool down and rmeember than once in game EVERYTHING GOES. Stealing power armor, hijacking interdimensional fortress, go for full bionic conversion, had one's soul transferred into a Broadkill, had one's DNA warped by gene-splicer/Splugorth, changing OCC(nmothing prevent you to do through gaming, after years as vagabond would be good idea to join the cyberknights)

[Rallan]

Why in a setting and game system where nearly any character imaginable is creatable do so many GM's feel the need to ban rccs or occs at all? We live in a world of vanilla humanity what's wrong with wanting to play the truly EXTRAORDINARY in this wonderful form of escapist entertainment called rpgs?

Because while Rifts as a setting is very much an everything but the kitchen sink affair, not every game has to be (or should be) an everything but the kitchen sink game.

I don't give a rat's ass if you're Roley the Roleplayer, the Roleplayingest Roleplayer to ever play a role. If I want to run a campaign about NGR pilots who've volunteered for an experimental remote piloting project, you are damn well all going to play as ordinary human beings with classes and backstories and jobs that fit in an NGR military base. If I'm running a mercenary campaign in the jungles of South America, I do not want you or anyone else coming up with some ridiculous explanation for how a ninja juicer from Japan or an Apok from Wormwood or a druid from England ended up in the Amazon rainforest. If I'm running a high-powered transdimensional campaign I don't want someone playing a human Rogue Scholar and whining about how everything's too tough for his PC to help with.

No ifs, no buts. In a game with so many settings, so many stories to tell, and so many styles to play, it's up to the GM to make sure everything fits the theme. And just as importantly, in a game where scaling and game balance is so completely and utterly nonexistent and there's so little in the way of sound advice on keeping things balanced, it's up to the GM to think very carefully about whether such and such a class and race will be a gamebreaker.

[The Baron of chaos]

Ralla Gama Balance is important, and what you say is true. Still one ha dnot to be OVER strict. After all Not everyone is cut to be a power armor pilot, so to speak.
If you are so rigid do not surprise if players play dirty tricks. Or start playing Miscreatn or Diabolic alignments waaaay too often. (alignment and insanities are one of the few things players are free to choose in RIfts games , whatever campaing the GM plan.).
After all the GM is right in tha the planned a campaign careuflly investing time to do so, so he had the right to run it in the way he please, but he is not shakespear and players are not paid actors, so they are free to play the way they felt..remeber rpg is for fun.

[Vrykolas2k]

Just Floopers.
Not that it's a big deal, since my players are currently on a campaign to expunge them from the Megaverse (my wife's idea).
Just call it my group's version of the Klingon tribble solution...