Shadow Chronicles RPG should include stuff from Prelude

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Unread post by Aramanthus »

Then again maybe those lost zentaedi might just join up with the alliance that will be needed to beat the Haydonites.
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"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

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Re: Shadow Chronicles RPG should include stuff from Prelude

Unread post by Treefrog »

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:Ok,

since The Shadow Chronicles is a rather sparse 'epic' (being the pilot to a series essentially), I think Palladium is going to have to dig up some stuff to add to the basic game if it wants people to get enough bang for their buck. This would negate them having to over rely upon stuff that will go into The Invid Invasion book for material. As much as I thought it was a waste of paper, Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles offers enough extra 'goodies' to satisfy.

Humans
Super Shadow Fighter
Synchro-cannon Beta
Zentraedi Battloid (misnamed Zentraedi Bioroid)
VR-052F & VR-052T Battler Cyclones
Vince Grant's Cyclone (Devastator maybe?)
'Battle Buggy' (Veritech?) Jeep
Gallant H-90
Owen's 'Mob Gun' (Wolfe 'Staple Gun' blaster & rifle components)
Cyclone Heavy Blaster Rifle (for lack of a better term)
CBA-5M Combat Battle Armor
Military Police Riot Armor
Hostile Environment Armor
CVR-3M & CVR-3F Cyclone Body Armor
Haydonite-style Spacesuit
UEEF Deuce-and-a-half (for lack of a better term)
Icarus-subclass Battlecruiser
Shimakaze-class Battlecruiser (the one without the Synchro-cannon)
SDF-03 'Trojan Horse' Exoskeleton
SDF-03 Pioneer Pre-Refit (should resemble a Tristar or old Tokugawa)
SDF-03 Pioneer Shadow Dimensional Fortress (Post-Refit)
SDF-04 Liberator
Crusader-class Dropship
Horizon V Combat Troop Shuttle
'Garfish'-class Cruiser (w/Synchro-cannon or 'Deukalion' Science Vessel)
'Ikazuchi'-class Carrier
Tokugawa-class Battleship (post 2043 Refit)
Space Pod from The Sentinels (Louie pilots one in an issue)
Space Station Liberty
Moon Base ALuCE

Forces of the Invid Regent
The Invid Regent
Invid Shocktrooper (Regent Modified)
Invid Protector Guard (Regent Modified)
Inorganics (Crann and Odeon)
Invid Overlord Veritech
Scorpion Warship

Force of the Haydonites
Haydonite
Haydonite Veritech
Haydonite Warship
The Awareness

Thats about all I can remember at the moment...I'm sure I forgot stuff. Anyway, that list should give Palladium a decent chunk of stuff to work with that wont interfere with later books so people won't feel jipped.


I have an issue with you having the SDF-3 (Pre-Refit) as a Tokugawa-class, when in the first issue of PttSC (Pg 10) it clearly shows the SDF-3 as the same design and color as the SDF-3 in The Sentinels Sourcebook.

As to the Trojan Horse exoskeleton of the SDF-3, IIRC Hunter and Sterling mention that the SDF-3 was to be in Breetai's Warship. Based on this, we already have stats for both. The only things we need is the rest....
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Re: Shadow Chronicles RPG should include stuff from Prelude

Unread post by Rabid Southern Cross Fan »

Treefrog wrote:I have an issue with you having the SDF-3 (Pre-Refit) as a Tokugawa-class, when in the first issue of PttSC (Pg 10) it clearly shows the SDF-3 as the same design and color as the SDF-3 in The Sentinels Sourcebook.

As to the Trojan Horse exoskeleton of the SDF-3, IIRC Hunter and Sterling mention that the SDF-3 was to be in Breetai's Warship. Based on this, we already have stats for both. The only things we need is the rest....


No, its not Breetai's warship. That was the novels and the RPG. Dialogue in The Sentinels clearly says its wrapped in the exoskeleton of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser. We've never seen it without its camouflage. Since ship designs go in cycles (various ships basically have a similar design aesthetic), there is no reason to think it wasn't built to resemble a ship of the day. The Tokugawa's and Tristar's would be the nearest 'models' to base the SDF-03 on, so there is no reason to think it wasn't similar in looks.

And for the record, I did NOT state that the SDF-03 pre-refit should be a Tokugawa, but resemble one. Thats not the same as being one.
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Re: Shadow Chronicles RPG should include stuff from Prelude

Unread post by Drakenred®™© »

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
Treefrog wrote:I have an issue with you having the SDF-3 (Pre-Refit) as a Tokugawa-class, when in the first issue of PttSC (Pg 10) it clearly shows the SDF-3 as the same design and color as the SDF-3 in The Sentinels Sourcebook.

As to the Trojan Horse exoskeleton of the SDF-3, IIRC Hunter and Sterling mention that the SDF-3 was to be in Breetai's Warship. Based on this, we already have stats for both. The only things we need is the rest....


No, its not Breetai's warship. That was the novels and the RPG. Dialogue in The Sentinels clearly says its wrapped in the exoskeleton of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser. We've never seen it without its camouflage. Since ship designs go in cycles (various ships basically have a similar design aesthetic), there is no reason to think it wasn't built to resemble a ship of the day. The Tokugawa's and Tristar's would be the nearest 'models' to base the SDF-03 on, so there is no reason to think it wasn't similar in looks.

And for the record, I did NOT state that the SDF-03 pre-refit should be a Tokugawa, but resemble one. Thats not the same as being one.

Tokugawa Vs (SDF 3)
Length: 1120m.(1403 m)(some list as 1700m)
Width: 430m.(518 m)
Height: 357m.(461 m)
the problem with the "refit theory" though is the twin booms of the main beam weapons, wich take up a BIG chunk of the SDF3 lenght, and the "side arms", which are both fairly wide structurs on their own part. I have always felt that at best the SDF-3 was built more or less from the "Keel up" as it looks in the main book, in part because I would assume that the basic design plans were in the Factories database
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Re: Shadow Chronicles RPG should include stuff from Prelude

Unread post by Rabid Southern Cross Fan »

Drakenred®™© wrote:the problem with the "refit theory" though is the twin booms of the main beam weapons, wich take up a BIG chunk of the SDF3 lenght, and the "side arms", which are both fairly wide structurs on their own part. I have always felt that at best the SDF-3 was built more or less from the "Keel up" as it looks in the main book, in part because I would assume that the basic design plans were in the Factories database


I can only tell you that the design from The Sentinels (and again in Prelude) is an exoskeleton. Its the Trojan Horse strategem. We have never seen the pre-THS SDF-03, only its exoskeleton.
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Re: Shadow Chronicles RPG should include stuff from Prelude

Unread post by Treefrog »

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
Drakenred®™© wrote:the problem with the "refit theory" though is the twin booms of the main beam weapons, wich take up a BIG chunk of the SDF3 lenght, and the "side arms", which are both fairly wide structurs on their own part. I have always felt that at best the SDF-3 was built more or less from the "Keel up" as it looks in the main book, in part because I would assume that the basic design plans were in the Factories database


I can only tell you that the design from The Sentinels (and again in Prelude) is an exoskeleton. Its the Trojan Horse strategem. We have never seen the pre-THS SDF-03, only its exoskeleton.


As per page 151 of the Sentinels Rulebook:

"Ironically, the SDF-3 is initially hidden inside the shell of a Zentraedi flagship to disguise the REF's true might from the Robotech Masters....."

Therefore, we have seen the SDF-3 pre-refit already.

BTW, if you still maintain that the SDF-3 in the Sentinels book is the exoskeleton, then that's a huge retcon by Harmony Gold, and AFAIK, the only things retconned are the novels.... Not the 3 episodes of the Sentinels.

OOC, do you really like the Tristar and Tokugawas? To me they look like "garbage scows" compared to the majesty of the SDF-3 from The Sentinels.... That and according to Robotech.com, the Tokugawas were an evolution of the Armor series:

"The Tokugawa class is, in many ways, the ultimate development of the Armor series sublight carriers concept built until 2010."

And now the Tristars:

"The most famous ship of this class was the vessel that bore the class name, which was the flagship of General Emerson throughout the latter half of the Second Robotech War."

Now why would the REF build a ship that is only a larger version of either classes? I'm pretty sure that both Breetai and Exedore had a hand in making suggestions on the design of the original SDF-3.....
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

So since we have never seen the actual ship since it was hidden in the exo-skeleton, then the pics from the Prelude are then canon for the inner ship.
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

"As you will it, your Grace."

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Re: Shadow Chronicles RPG should include stuff from Prelude

Unread post by Rabid Southern Cross Fan »

Treefrog wrote:As per page 151 of the Sentinels Rulebook:

"Ironically, the SDF-3 is initially hidden inside the shell of a Zentraedi flagship to disguise the REF's true might from the Robotech Masters....."

Therefore, we have seen the SDF-3 pre-refit already.


The Sentinels RPG is NOT what we are using, which is itself in conflict with the anime dialogue. Furthermore, they are calling it the SDF-03 exoskeleton on Robotech.com's Infopedia Size Comparison page.

BTW, if you still maintain that the SDF-3 in the Sentinels book is the exoskeleton, then that's a huge retcon by Harmony Gold, and AFAIK, the only things retconned are the novels.... Not the 3 episodes of the Sentinels.


:roll:

The Sentinels (time marker 25 minutes)
Adam Rhinehardt: Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm Colonel Rhinehardt. I'd like to welcome you all to the ship. You see before you a splending piece of engineering if I do say so myself. We used absolutely everything salvageable from the SDF-01 and -02.
Max Sterling: And then wrapped the whole thing up in the exoskeleton of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser.
Adam Rhinehardt: Our new allies Breetai and Exedore were a great help with the details. We think its quite a convincing imitation.

OOC, do you really like the Tristar and Tokugawas?


You know, I'm beginning to really hate it when people actually think I'm lying when I say that I like something. I'm NOT lying when I say I'm a Southern Cross fan. Nor am I mentally deranged or senile. Newsflash, there are some of us who happen to think that The Macross Saga is not the end-all-be-all of Robotech. Its insulting to say the least to question if I actually like something or am pulling your leg.

YES, I like the design of the Tristar's, Tokugawa's and the other warships of The Masters War. I think they are elegant, arse stomping space dreadnaughts.

Now why would the REF build a ship that is only a larger version of either classes?


The same reason the SDF-03 Refit and SDF-04 share design similarities with the Ikazuchi, IZUM and Horizon-class ships. The REF was formed and went out into the galaxy during the time that the ships people recognize as being part of Southern Cross were in use. They had Tristar's, Tokugawa's, Battlecruisers and Destroyers as the main component of their fleet.

As I said, ship design goes in cycles. Thats why the ARMDs and Oberths look 'similar' to the SDF-01.
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

I actually took that into account with my Sentinels campaign. I was using a lot of SC ships.
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

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Re: Shadow Chronicles RPG should include stuff from Prelude

Unread post by Treefrog »

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
Treefrog wrote:As per page 151 of the Sentinels Rulebook:

"Ironically, the SDF-3 is initially hidden inside the shell of a Zentraedi flagship to disguise the REF's true might from the Robotech Masters....."

Therefore, we have seen the SDF-3 pre-refit already.


The Sentinels RPG is NOT what we are using, which is itself in conflict with the anime dialogue. Furthermore, they are calling it the SDF-03 exoskeleton on Robotech.com's Infopedia Size Comparison page.

BTW, if you still maintain that the SDF-3 in the Sentinels book is the exoskeleton, then that's a huge retcon by Harmony Gold, and AFAIK, the only things retconned are the novels.... Not the 3 episodes of the Sentinels.


:roll:

The Sentinels (time marker 25 minutes)
Adam Rhinehardt: Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm Colonel Rhinehardt. I'd like to welcome you all to the ship. You see before you a splending piece of engineering if I do say so myself. We used absolutely everything salvageable from the SDF-01 and -02.
Max Sterling: And then wrapped the whole thing up in the exoskeleton of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser.
Adam Rhinehardt: Our new allies Breetai and Exedore were a great help with the details. We think its quite a convincing imitation.

OOC, do you really like the Tristar and Tokugawas?


You know, I'm beginning to really hate it when people actually think I'm lying when I say that I like something. I'm NOT lying when I say I'm a Southern Cross fan. Nor am I mentally deranged or senile. Newsflash, there are some of us who happen to think that The Macross Saga is not the end-all-be-all of Robotech. Its insulting to say the least to question if I actually like something or am pulling your leg.

YES, I like the design of the Tristar's, Tokugawa's and the other warships of The Masters War. I think they are elegant, arse stomping space dreadnaughts.

Now why would the REF build a ship that is only a larger version of either classes?


The same reason the SDF-03 Refit and SDF-04 share design similarities with the Ikazuchi, IZUM and Horizon-class ships. The REF was formed and went out into the galaxy during the time that the ships people recognize as being part of Southern Cross were in use. They had Tristar's, Tokugawa's, Battlecruisers and Destroyers as the main component of their fleet.

As I said, ship design goes in cycles. Thats why the ARMDs and Oberths look 'similar' to the SDF-01.


What you say is the exoskeleton is actually the SDF-3. When it gets hit by the Regent's ship in Prelude (again it shows the SDF-3, not the exoskeleton) it allowed the REF to redesign it to look like other contemporary Terran ships.

Also, what you take as the exoskeleton is the actual design of Zor's ship.

Name me one episode where it shows a Zentraedi battlecruiser the same design as what you call the exoskeleton.
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Re: Shadow Chronicles RPG should include stuff from Prelude

Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

Treefrog wrote:
What you say is the exoskeleton is actually the SDF-3. When it gets hit by the Regent's ship in Prelude (again it shows the SDF-3, not the exoskeleton) it allowed the REF to redesign it to look like other contemporary Terran ships.

Also, what you take as the exoskeleton is the actual design of Zor's ship.

Name me one episode where it shows a Zentraedi battlecruiser the same design as what you call the exoskeleton.

The InfoPedia Disagrees with the Comics.
it Calls the Ship Taken out by the Regent:
Ship Name/Type: SDF-3 Pioneer (original exoskeletal hull)
Length: 1721m

http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/sizecomparison/10mpp.php
is the Link to the Chart if you think i'm lieing.
But Can someone please Show me where the Idea that its Zor's Ship Design comes from in Current Canon. Dose Rick say it in Passing in PTTSC?
you dont have to Prove its in an Episode. The Infopedia Says its in an Exoskeleton Hull, The Origonal Indication in Sentinels was it was in a Exoskeleton of a Zentradie Ship.
Easy enough reason. Harmony Gold Dosent exactly have the Right to re-use the Old Zent Designs, but they could Easily say this was a Zent Design, just not one Mainly Profiled in the Show.
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Unread post by Drakenred®™© »

please realise that this is My Opiniojn on the subject

The Original SDF-3 is one ship, it was built from the ground up as the SDF-3. their IS NOT "the REAL" SDF-3 buried in the guts of that ship with Lisa hovering over a button labled (slips into hill billy drawl)"Blow 'er up Good Prof Lang" for way too many reasons for me to go into. the "trojan horse" of the SDF-1 was its Human built mecha that are in many ways supirior to what would have been on a Zentradi crewed ship.

To put it on more conventional terms, the SDF 3 is the kind of ship you would get if the USNavy went to Bath shipworks with the hull plans of the USS Texas (BB-35) and told them to build a ship based on that design from the keal up complete with 14 inch gun turrets, but with the weapons and hardware of an modern Aegis cruiser/DDX.

The So called "SDF-3" "refit" is not, Its a new ship, just like the 1701 -a is not the Original enterprise. the only real diference is that the SDF-3 refit was probably built with a fair bit of material and hardware that may have been salvaged from the original SDF-3. to me the SDF-3 Refit should more acturatly be called the SDF-3-A
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Unread post by Colonel Wolfe »

Talkin to Tommy Yunn last night in Ropbotech Chat, he confirmed the Pictured Ship in the Comics and the Infopedia is a "Trojan horse" Designed to Look Like a Zentradie Ship, but with Upgraded Human Weapons and Mecha. it was Rebuilt to look like the SDF-4 since the Disguise was no longer nessisary.

I think the Sentinels Dialog has been set into secondary Canon completly...
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Unread post by Drakenred®™© »

Colonel Wolfe wrote:Talkin to Tommy Yunn last night in Ropbotech Chat, he confirmed the Pictured Ship in the Comics and the Infopedia is a "Trojan horse" Designed to Look Like a Zentradie Ship, but with Upgraded Human Weapons and Mecha. it was Rebuilt to look like the SDF-4 since the Disguise was no longer nessisary.

I think the Sentinels Dialog has been set into secondary Canon completly...
I would say that its far more accurate to say they built it the way they did because they had long since settled on standard designes for their new hulls. Trying to say you "rebuilt to the SDF-4 configuration" is a lot like saying your going to rebuild the Iowa as The Kittyhawk. theirs just too mutch of a structural change between the two ships.
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Unread post by Drakenred®™© »

and incidentaly I think it was actualy rebuilt as a "Battlcruiser" type to the SDF-4s "Battleship type"
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Unread post by taalismn »

Yep...not always smart to make the most fire-power heavy vessel in your fleet the flagship....The U.S. Navy has special command/communications vessels that carry only basic point defense...
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Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

you'll notice that by HG's chart, the 'new' SDF-3 is a good deal shorter and smaller than the old. so its possible the REF just stripped away the old hull down to the superstructure and rebuilt it fro mthe frame up. basically like the change from the TOS constitution to the Movie era refit in star trek. (of which something like only 20% of the original ship remained, mostly structural members in the saucer and secondary hull)

(it's interesting that the Ark Angel, listed as ??? on that chart, seems ot be nearly twice the length of the SDF-3, with probably 4x the volume if not more. the size of a Zentraedi Thuverl Salan class Destroyer.)
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Unread post by taalismn »

Sounds right...Though I'm not terribly keen on the 'Crusader' Dropships...Might have looked cooler with heavily modified Garfish or some other types IMHO..
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Unread post by Nimul »

glitterboy2098 wrote:(it's interesting that the Ark Angel, listed as ??? on that chart, seems ot be nearly twice the length of the SDF-3, with probably 4x the volume if not more. the size of a Zentraedi Thuverl Salan class Destroyer.)


Its been mentioned that they served as colony ships for the REF so not too surprising if thats the case as a lot of room is required for colonists and necessary equipmnt to start up a colony. Nice find though there glitterboy :)
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Unread post by Treefrog »

taalismn wrote:Yep...not always smart to make the most fire-power heavy vessel in your fleet the flagship....The U.S. Navy has special command/communications vessels that carry only basic point defense...


And yet, in modern US Naval tactics, the carrier is typically the flagship of a carrier battlegroup. 99% of the time, the admiral in charge of the battlegroup is on the flagship of the battlegroup, and that would be the carrier.
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Unread post by Tiree »

I just picked up Art of Robotech the Shadow Chronicles, and it is fairly well laid out.

Some interesting tidbits according to the book:

There are several different types of Cyclones:
VR-038 LT
VR-041 (Stated that it had limited use)
VR-052
VR-052F (Forearm Mini-Missiles - I believe)
VR-055 (limited production)
VR-057 (Grant's Cyclone) - and this one rocks with a rail gun!

Now - I still don't know if the VR-05X have missiles in the chest. But if the VR-041 does, why not it's replacement

Ark Angel Cruiser the colony ship - this was the type of ship that moved the Nuetron S Missiles (And they made an Ichazuki look like a fighter compared to it...)

SDF-3 was designed to look like the ship in the back of the Sentinels and per the Video. It was practically destroyed and then was refitted. Now it had 2 Reflex Cannons, and then was upgraded(?) to two Synchro Cannons.

Nearly all the ships had Synchro Cannons

The Horizon V actually looks pretty interesting - as it has Armor Packs for atmospheric flight. The Garfish is also pretty cool with several different types and the hanger underneath is a removable pod... oddly enough.
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Unread post by Nimul »

Looks cool, I don't have the book unfortunately but anything else interesting in there?
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

Too many things in there. There is a lot of great art. They include a nice shot of how big a Neutron S missile when compared to the Ikazuchi class ships.
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Unread post by Tiree »

Yup, the Super Shadow Fighter basically has armor packs. Now these armor packs are only used for space - cause too much drag.

Some of the data reflects what is more seen in the series. Almost a rehash of the data provided on Robotech.com's Infopedia. The Beta only has 1 pilot, but can hold 3 passengers in lieu of Bombs IIRC - I remember they mentioned it in the bomb bay.

The new Cyclones is what got me, and I am looking forward to seeing them statted out. Of course, I still can't tell whether or not that the VR-05X Series has chest Mini-Missiles. Everything I have seen is that they say it incorporates everything that is good about the previous versions. To me, this means that they are indeed there - we just never saw Scott use them except for the voice mixup in one of the episodes.

I still can't for the likes of me remember any episode of Robotech that has the Saber cyclone with its blades extended.

But they have a lot of information that is found on the Infopedia, with some CG Models, and some production sketches that are nice to see.

Edit: As I mentioned about the Ark Angel Cruisers used for the Nuetron S Missiles. I decided to snoop around at Robotech.com's Infopedia:

As the standard capital ship of the Expeditionary Force in the Third Robotech War, the Ikazuchi class saw much service over Earth and elsewhere. Among other duties, an Ikazuchi-class vessel was docked to each of the Neutron S missiles to ensure their safety and correct use. Many of the class fell in combat with the Invid.


Well - I guess this is going to change on their site... Or will they? Is the book or the website correct?
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Aramanthus
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

They showed the Ikazuchi's attached to the neutron-S missile in RtSC. So I guess they'll have to correct it.
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

"As you will it, your Grace."

HH....FIE
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Unread post by Drakenred®™© »

taalismn wrote:Yep...not always smart to make the most fire-power heavy vessel in your fleet the flagship....The U.S. Navy has special command/communications vessels that carry only basic point defense...


It makes even less sence (to me) to build in major factory facilities into whats bascialy a target. besides which, Seriously where exactly was the SDF-3 suposed to get all the raw materials to continue to build out fighters and missiles and ammo?
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

There are always asteroid fields ni systems. Not in all but there are bound to be in some. Resources are always present in space.
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

"As you will it, your Grace."

HH....FIE
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