Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

[glitterboy2098]

i'd prefer to avoid nanomachine stuff beyond the existing (largely misidentified) examples already in the game. mainly because if real grey goo options get put in, it will likely get setting breaking the moment people use the hollywood idea of what nanites can do instead of stuff a little more grounded in reality. because hollywood nanites are just a code word for 'magic via techbabble'

Well, canon use of nanites that i can remember is some piece of gear that can help with treating damage and stuff to a person in the RMB.
Once made an adapted version of it that managed to make some repairs to armor and robots too, but left it at that. Any other noteworthy uses in the books one might extrapolate from?

the only true nanites in the game right now is the T'zee goop shooter things, and the Republic of japan disassembler warheads. the RMB and bionics sourcebook have tiny repair robots (IRMSS for example, or the bionic self repair system), but they are actually big enough to see with the naked eye (albeit just barely in a few cases), so aren't actually nanites.

[SolCannibal]

i'd prefer to avoid nanomachine stuff beyond the existing (largely misidentified) examples already in the game. mainly because if real grey goo options get put in, it will likely get setting breaking the moment people use the hollywood idea of what nanites can do instead of stuff a little more grounded in reality. because hollywood nanites are just a code word for 'magic via techbabble'

Well, canon use of nanites that i can remember is some piece of gear that can help with treating damage and stuff to a person in the RMB.
Once made an adapted version of it that managed to make some repairs to armor and robots too, but left it at that. Any other noteworthy uses in the books one might extrapolate from?

the only true nanites in the game right now is the T'zee goop shooter things, and the Republic of japan disassembler warheads. the RMB and bionics sourcebook have tiny repair robots (IRMSS for example, or the bionic self repair system), but they are actually big enough to see with the naked eye (albeit just barely in a few cases), so aren't actually nanites.

Good to know and thanks for bringing it up, though T'zee nanites tech is high-end stuff even for Phaseworld standards from what i have seen, so quite beyond the pale for Rifts Earth overall.

Also, did not remember the thing about the IRMSS or the bionic self repair system actually being in the "barely there but still visible to the naked eye" category. One might ask itself why, but then the sheer complexity required to do their work might sort of excuse the size.

[dreicunan]

i'd prefer to avoid nanomachine stuff beyond the existing (largely misidentified) examples already in the game. mainly because if real grey goo options get put in, it will likely get setting breaking the moment people use the hollywood idea of what nanites can do instead of stuff a little more grounded in reality. because hollywood nanites are just a code word for 'magic via techbabble'

Well, canon use of nanites that i can remember is some piece of gear that can help with treating damage and stuff to a person in the RMB.
Once made an adapted version of it that managed to make some repairs to armor and robots too, but left it at that. Any other noteworthy uses in the books one might extrapolate from?

[

Techno-wizard nanites powered by a sonic to magic converter!? somehow I feel star treky talking about converters and such

Music-powered nanotech?
Oy....'heavy metal' in the blood and bone indeed.

Africa, now the home of the "Battle Rockers" hopped up super humans similar to the crazies or juicers but instead powered by nanites that are in turn powered by sound...

They hold rock concerts to charge up their little bots man, then they go bash them rifty bees.

Smells like crossover to me.

The crossover I thought of involved a lot more Slaanesh and Noise Marines.

[Suicycho]

I would like a total rework of the Africa Book with a companion sourcebook detailing the PE and other kingdoms/nations etc in detail. In fact I think a 2-3 book series detailing the PE war within Africa & Europe would be awesome.

[Suicycho]

IMO, the Coming of the Rifts and the reactivation of high-energy magic messed it up for technological progress in those areas where the infrastructure couldn't support it. The Golden Age may have seen various nations that already had high tech industrial infrastructure benefit enormously, but nowhere on the scale of those nations where the megadamage revolution began. Relatively speaking, even holding resources that the rest of the world wanted, Africa still got the short end of the stick, economically, especially if the world economies put pressure on the African nations to set aside more territory and resources for wilderness preservation(making the African continent, in effect, a 'world zoological park').
Given that, when magic returns, the natives find it easier to embrace traditional magicks that now WORK, whereas the high tech wonders so visible elsewhere are in short supply, so I'd expect Africa to a wizard's paradise, even more so than the Magic Zone. Heck, maybe Africa becomes a mecca for TechnoWizards, getting old tech in the surviving high-tech regions back up and running through gadget-wizardry.

Given the tech- and MDC-creep that shows up in South America, however, we can't discount that there might be some well-equipped high tech enclaves(such as South Africa), nations that tried bucking the pressure to buy cheaper foreign high-tech than develop their own, or who were getting assistance as proxies(the Russians or Chinese might have tried to smooshing their way back into Africa by offering assistance in developing high-tech), but I'm dubious on seeing African versions of Glitterboys(though I'm not adverse to seeing African Behemoth Explorers). But in general I see Africa as becoming a Land of a Thousand Magicks.

Concerning the Golden Age, I would think that several major Megacorps or Transnational corporations would have begun adopting Flag of Convenience relationships with under developed nations. Basically step in, infuse them with cash & infrastructure and take over many aspects of civil & security responsibilities in return for shielding them from many tax, monopoly & antitrust laws that transnational corporations would likely face were they based in more developed 1st world countries. So by the coming of the Rifts there would be some fairly powerful, technologically & infrastrucurally countries in Africa.

[glitterboy2098]

Also, did not remember the thing about the IRMSS or the bionic self repair system actually being in the "barely there but still visible to the naked eye" category. One might ask itself why, but then the sheer complexity required to do their work might sort of excuse the size.

probably because when the IRMSS and the other first ones were written, it was the late 80's, and the concept of robots the size of bacteria to viruses was a lot more very-far-away futuristic seeming at the time. the repair system that appeared in the bionic sourcebook is much newer, but is basically just one of those earlier systems adapted to repair borgs stats wise.

[SolCannibal]

The crossover I thought of involved a lot more Slaanesh and Noise Marines.

Well, well, Heavy Metal would be more of a Khorne or Slaanesh thing? Or Death Metal for Nurgle? That's something to think.

Hmmm, now that i thought of it, except for Tzeentch the Ruinous Powers blend pretty well with the Horsemen...

I would like a total rework of the Africa Book with a companion sourcebook detailing the PE and other kingdoms/nations etc in detail. In fact I think a 2-3 book series detailing the PE war within Africa & Europe would be awesome.

Well, considering how much time has passed since they ever did continental-scale Worldbooks (Africa & South America basically), i'm not betting on it anytime soon. A Phoenix Empire one, to serve as an update and springboard to explore parts of North Africa, Mediterranean and/or Middle East, who knows, sounds more in synch with current Worldbooks imho.

Also, did not remember the thing about the IRMSS or the bionic self repair system actually being in the "barely there but still visible to the naked eye" category. One might ask itself why, but then the sheer complexity required to do their work might sort of excuse the size.

probably because when the IRMSS and the other first ones were written, it was the late 80's, and the concept of robots the size of bacteria to viruses was a lot more very-far-away futuristic seeming at the time. the repair system that appeared in the bionic sourcebook is much newer, but is basically just one of those earlier systems adapted to repair borgs stats wise.

Yeah, i remember homebrewing something pretty much like that in my games quite a lot of time ago. It's a pretty simple thing, not to say natural, to extrapolate from the IRMSS' concept, truth be told.

[taalismn]

[q

Concerning the Golden Age, I would think that several major Megacorps or Transnational corporations would have begun adopting Flag of Convenience relationships with under developed nations. Basically step in, infuse them with cash & infrastructure and take over many aspects of civil & security responsibilities in return for shielding them from many tax, monopoly & antitrust laws that transnational corporations would likely face were they based in more developed 1st world countries. So by the coming of the Rifts there would be some fairly powerful, technologically & infrastrucurally countries in Africa.

O can see that...and by the time of the Coming of the Rifts, the tech company would effectively be the power behind the government, much like Triax/NGR.
There could be different takes on this, from the stereotypical evil megacorp bending local laws to favor them, to the benign people-oriented corporation that has to bend local laws and subvert true democracy in order to actually get some good done.
Who knows, some of the corporations long since extinct in North America might have surviving branches in Africa(though the branches have been thoroughly africanzed by now). Cyberworks Africa, anybody?

[SolCannibal]

Concerning the Golden Age, I would think that several major Megacorps or Transnational corporations would have begun adopting Flag of Convenience relationships with under developed nations. Basically step in, infuse them with cash & infrastructure and take over many aspects of civil & security responsibilities in return for shielding them from many tax, monopoly & antitrust laws that transnational corporations would likely face were they based in more developed 1st world countries. So by the coming of the Rifts there would be some fairly powerful, technologically & infrastrucurally countries in Africa.

O can see that...and by the time of the Coming of the Rifts, the tech company would effectively be the power behind the government, much like Triax/NGR.
There could be different takes on this, from the stereotypical evil megacorp bending local laws to favor them, to the benign people-oriented corporation that has to bend local laws and subvert true democracy in order to actually get some good done.

Who knows, some of the corporations long since extinct in North America might have surviving branches in Africa(though the branches have been thoroughly africanzed by now). Cyberworks Africa, anybody?

Triax/NGR x Otomo Shogunate for two possible extremes of the spectrum, so to speak.

Or maybe something weirder, like some corporate-oriented variant AI trying to prop up/direct a number of people through the ages in a convoluted and not quite practical effort to "restablish the venture's value capital" or somesuch, some strange crossbreed between Archie-3, the Computer from Paranoia and some sort of eletronic consultant/guide - for post-apocalyptic people with a frame of reality totally unlike the late 21th post-yuppie models the machine bases itself on. Well-intentioned in a strange, cuttroat, business jargon-ladden and somewhat disconnected from reality sort of way.

[taalismn]

Or maybe something weirder, like some corporate-oriented variant AI trying to prop up/direct a number of people through the ages in a convoluted and not quite practical effort to "restablish the venture's value capital" or somesuch, some strange crossbreed between Archie-3, the Computer from Paranoia and some sort of eletronic consultant/guide - for post-apocalyptic people with a frame of reality totally unlike the late 21th post-yuppie models the machine bases itself on. Well-intentioned in a strange, cuttroat, business jargon-ladden and somewhat disconnected from reality sort of way.

The AI could be the advisor to an Amin-style warlord. Thing is, advising a nutjob on coldly pragmatic tactics and strategies*as interpreted by the warlord) has earned the AI the hatred of the opposition. But the rebels have an AI of their own that's giving them an inside advisory on how to subvert the government.
THe kicker is that the rebels' inside man and the dictator's soulless machine advisor are one and the same. The AI's gone schizoid, its programming to 'maximize profits' conflicting with its core directives to 'improve the quality of human life' has caused its intelligence to fragment or at least develop an insanely convoluted strategy to play off both sides for some third plan(even it's only to buy time...the rebels could be as bad as the dictator) to come to fruition.

[Khanibal]

I could see efforts to combat HIV and Ebola turning into a super-human treatment. Similar to the Altess, except less planned.

[taalismn]

I could see efforts to combat HIV and Ebola turning into a super-human treatment. Similar to the Altess, except less planned.

Or the World Health Council efforts being used as a COVER for experiments(ironically, by local governments/concerns), with unexpected results. An effort to amplify the physical abilities, by retrovirus, of specific tribal bloodlines goes awry and results in a virus that spreads telepathy or empathy(thing is, the virus has a high fatality rate, or at least 'think-I'm-gonna -die' symptoms, or may only affect those of African descent, or may have ugly side effects).

[SolCannibal]

Now a very weird idea crossed my mind - what if instead of disease, retrovirus or somesuch, the "amplification source" was some kind of nanotech, microrobots made to mine and reprocess toxic substances in the bodies of people working on biohazard/radiation/toxic zones that along the way developed weird sub-units or variations from those materials and evolved into something else through a datacloud of growing self-awareness, but a sort of interface and communicating/guiding intelligence connecting all of them, generating a brand of peculiar superbeings that see themselves as sort of spiritual, but might be more cybernetic (or maybe a bit of both)?

Just a funky concept/image of sorts.

[taalismn]

Now a very weird idea crossed my mind - what if instead of disease, retrovirus or somesuch, the "amplification source" was some kind of nanotech, microrobots made to mine and reprocess toxic substances in the bodies of people working on biohazard/radiation/toxic zones that along the way developed weird sub-units or variations from those materials and evolved into something else through a datacloud of growing self-awareness, generating not only superbeings, but a sort of interface and communicating/guiding intelligence connecting all of them?

Just a funky concept/image of sorts.

Group mind/hive virus.
Benign form: Literally viral wi-fi internet/dream-chat.
Evil Form: Borg-like group mind.

Might have to impose a range limitation for communications, but people can act as relays for others in range.

[Zer0 Kay]

i'd prefer to avoid nanomachine stuff beyond the existing (largely misidentified) examples already in the game. mainly because if real grey goo options get put in, it will likely get setting breaking the moment people use the hollywood idea of what nanites can do instead of stuff a little more grounded in reality. because hollywood nanites are just a code word for 'magic via techbabble'

Well, canon use of nanites that i can remember is some piece of gear that can help with treating damage and stuff to a person in the RMB.
Once made an adapted version of it that managed to make some repairs to armor and robots too, but left it at that. Any other noteworthy uses in the books one might extrapolate from?

[

Techno-wizard nanites powered by a sonic to magic converter!? somehow I feel star treky talking about converters and such

Music-powered nanotech?
Oy....'heavy metal' in the blood and bone indeed.

Africa, now the home of the "Battle Rockers" hopped up super humans similar to the crazies or juicers but instead powered by nanites that are in turn powered by sound...

They hold rock concerts to charge up their little bots man, then they go bash them rifty bees.

Smells like crossover to me.

There are two devices in the main book one in the bionics book and the grenade in Japan.... that I can recall.

How dare you bring up the horror of instrumecha?!

[SolCannibal]

Now a very weird idea crossed my mind - what if instead of disease, retrovirus or somesuch, the "amplification source" was some kind of nanotech, microrobots made to mine and reprocess toxic substances in the bodies of people working on biohazard/radiation/toxic zones that along the way developed weird sub-units or variations from those materials and evolved into something else through a datacloud of growing self-awareness, generating not only superbeings, but a sort of interface and communicating/guiding intelligence connecting all of them?

Just a funky concept/image of sorts.

Group mind/hive virus.
Benign form: Literally viral wi-fi internet/dream-chat.
Evil Form: Borg-like group mind.

Might have to impose a range limitation for communications, but people can act as relays for others in range.

Now getting ideas of this symbiosis of sorts as something akin to the interaction between a developing psychic/mystic into a Shifter or Witch with a Supernatural Intelligence in some elements, possibly in part due to a "TW-Shifter" that appears in the Siege of Tolkeen books, not to mention stuff where the mechanical and psychic kind of blend somewhat, like Archie-3 due to centuries of Ley Line exposure, Caliber-X in Rifts England or bits and pieces i don't remember enough to name right now.

i'd prefer to avoid nanomachine stuff beyond the existing (largely misidentified) examples already in the game. mainly because if real grey goo options get put in, it will likely get setting breaking the moment people use the hollywood idea of what nanites can do instead of stuff a little more grounded in reality. because hollywood nanites are just a code word for 'magic via techbabble'

Well, canon use of nanites that i can remember is some piece of gear that can help with treating damage and stuff to a person in the RMB.
Once made an adapted version of it that managed to make some repairs to armor and robots too, but left it at that. Any other noteworthy uses in the books one might extrapolate from?

[

Techno-wizard nanites powered by a sonic to magic converter!? somehow I feel star treky talking about converters and such

Music-powered nanotech?
Oy....'heavy metal' in the blood and bone indeed.

Africa, now the home of the "Battle Rockers" hopped up super humans similar to the crazies or juicers but instead powered by nanites that are in turn powered by sound...

They hold rock concerts to charge up their little bots man, then they go bash them rifty bees.

Smells like crossover to me.

There are two devices in the main book one in the bionics book and the grenade in Japan.... that I can recall.

How dare you bring up the horror of instrumecha?!

Macross-7 trumps that, on all factors of horror.

[taalismn]

[

Macross-7 trumps that, on all factors of horror.

"BAASSRAAA!!! NOBODY GIVES A $####!!!!+++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[SolCannibal]

[

Macross-7 trumps that, on all factors of horror.

"BAASSRAAA!!! NOBODY GIVES A $####!!!!+++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Must admit that for a moment there i misread your "BAASSRAAA!!! as Casbah and thought of this.

[taalismn]

[

Must admit that for a moment there i misread your "BAASSRAAA!!! as Casbah and thought of this.

Casablanca---The WestWorld-style themepark version: "Play it again, Sam. Again, Sam. Again, Sam. Again, Sam."

[SolCannibal]

[

Must admit that for a moment there i misread your "BAASSRAAA!!! as Casbah and thought of this.

Casablanca---The WestWorld-style themepark version: "Play it again, Sam. Again, Sam. Again, Sam. Again, Sam."

An african WestWorld-style themepark inspired by Casablanca, Zulu, Quartemain's adventures and a bunch of other films could get creepy fast.
Maybe starting as a place where people might hunt for sport without threatening dwindling species with extinction, but becoming stranger and more eerie as the Time of Rifts and the fall of civilization sets in.

[Wise_Owl]

So Yeah, the treatment of Africa in the original World-Book is... bad. Really, and kind of typically American bad. It treats Africa as if this massive continent is a single 'thing', like somehow the San[Pejoratively known as the Bushmen previously] roaming the limited Savana's to which they are now restricted are the same as peoples of the Eastern African Coast, or the Congolese Jungle, or Zimbabwe or... Anyways, Africa was underserviced in a way that's hard not to see as racist and frankly a waste of potential.

So just a few ideas here;

The Congolese Tech Republic, built from the Remnants of a Golden Age Society prioritised around space technology. The DRC has more Equatorial land than anywhere else on earth. Assuming some golden technological age in the future, they are primed to be a primary launch site. They'd also be an excellent place to build a space elevator, which is another idea I like. A Massive tower that fell during the rifts, it's material utilised to construct post-rifts technology. Maybe a remnant of it is some 10-mile high tower that can be seen far away.

A reborn Mali or Songhai Empire in Western Africa; Something build with a combination of technology and Magic. A Counterbalance to the Pheonix Empire that could explain some of the later's static nature. Perhaps this reborn Empire is also 'Rifts' multi-ethnic and trades with Atlantis, as it certainly isn't above the Splugorth to tell to multiple sides in a conflict.

In central Africa, there is a historical society which migrated over time from being governed by orders of priests to an emerging class of Smiths. Basically, those who controlled Iron and its abilities were a sort of quasi-mystical guild who gradually came to dominate society. That idea or some variant on it seems too neat and ripe for rifts potential not to use.

The Eastern coast of Africa is the most underdeveloped, and really the whole region around the Indian Ocean. I mean this was a significant trade corridor for the majority of human history, there should be extensive trade ongoing here. Obviously, you'd need to have some idea of what the rest of said coast looked like, but a diversity of different city-states, some magical, some technological, some a blend of the two. Some dominated by Monsters, or gods, or Human Wizards, or an Insane Tech-Cyborg whose kept alive only by will and the technologies they acquire at the expense of their population, or whatever. Cities that are held together in a loose union by Trade, but with no more trust to one another than to anyone else.

There are reams of mythology to be mined as well as Deities and Monsters and such.

Rifts has long suffered from a tendency to portray the Golden Age of Mankind as "Well geopolitically it's basically 1988 as envisioned by Action Movies of 1988...". The Real Africa is Big, diverse, complex and full of interest, wonder and horror. A Rifts Africa should be nothing less.

[dreicunan]

"Typically American bad." Or, perhaps, humans everywhere tend to paint with broad brushes. Like saying that something is typically American bad.

[taalismn]

An african WestWorld-style themepark inspired by Casablanca, Zulu, Quartemain's adventures and a bunch of other films could get creepy fast.
Maybe starting as a place where people might hunt for sport without threatening dwindling species with extinction, but becoming stranger and more eerie as the Time of Rifts and the fall of civilization sets in.

Then the robot animals go 'Terminator'

And as for 'American Bad'? Europeans had longer to mess up Africa and set the ideas, although the Americans kept sucking at the international slave trade long after Europe disengaged from the practice(although the Belgians raised it to new levels of nastiness in-house with their exploitation of the Congo).

[SolCannibal]

An african WestWorld-style themepark inspired by Casablanca, Zulu, Quartemain's adventures and a bunch of other films could get creepy fast.
Maybe starting as a place where people might hunt for sport without threatening dwindling species with extinction, but becoming stranger and more eerie as the Time of Rifts and the fall of civilization sets in.

Then the robot animals go 'Terminator'

Terminator meets children's books, with intelligent robot animals capable of speech among other things, with who knows what weird agenda established by ancient directives or the coordination of a central core hidden somewhere.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

The level of creativity and abundance of ideas in this thread is inspiring and heart breaking at the same time. With such a creative fan base behind PB there's no reason that there aren't enough Rifter articles on any single topic to spawn new books monthly. But at the same time not all game lines receive the same attention and ideas that would work for other systems aren't applied. Thus we're left with a glut of books for one line while others haven't seen anything since they were first printed.

(rant over)

Keep up the good work people. You're doing fantastic!

[Khanibal]

I could see efforts to combat HIV and Ebola turning into a super-human treatment. Similar to the Altess, except less planned.

Or the World Health Council efforts being used as a COVER for experiments(ironically, by local governments/concerns), with unexpected results. An effort to amplify the physical abilities, by retrovirus, of specific tribal bloodlines goes awry and results in a virus that spreads telepathy or empathy(thing is, the virus has a high fatality rate, or at least 'think-I'm-gonna -die' symptoms, or may only affect those of African descent, or may have ugly side effects).

Text bolded by me.

1 treatment for sickle-cell anemia + 1 ley line event of cataclysmic proportions = super humans.

[SolCannibal]

Going a bit on the folkloric/spiritual terrain again, anybody ever heard of the Golden Stool?

[taalismn]

[q

1 treatment for sickle-cell anemia + 1 ley line event of cataclysmic proportions = super humans.

Instead of simply curing anemia, the treatment goes the other way and those treated get the ability to more efficiently metabolize oxygen: lower fatigue rates, greater endurance, and can go without breathing/hold breath for extended periods of time. They might not be able to run like cheetahs, but they can jog just about forever. No dying of exhaustion after marathon runs, so foot couriers come into serious vogue. African Wilderness Scouts with the mutation would have a great advantage even if that's the ONLY aspect of the mutation.

And ever hear of the volcanic lake that spewed forth poisonous acidic fumes? Choked an entire village to death? Yeah, these folks might just survive that. A village of 'super-breathers' using a local atmospheric hazard to protect their holdings? Might make for some good local color.

[Zer0 Kay]

Macross-7 trumps that, on all factors of horror.

What? Rock and roll and first few episodes dealt with a vampire killer IIRC. I had to review it for an anime club back in the 90s along with G-Gundam and RG Veda. Of the three the one I wish I could watch I just can't find... meaning because the two bad ones are carried by big names they're still readily available

[Zer0 Kay]

The level of creativity and abundance of ideas in this thread is inspiring and heart breaking at the same time. With such a creative fan base behind PB there's no reason that there aren't enough Rifter articles on any single topic to spawn new books monthly. But at the same time not all game lines receive the same attention and ideas that would work for other systems aren't applied. Thus we're left with a glut of books for one line while others haven't seen anything since they were first printed.

(rant over)

Keep up the good work people. You're doing fantastic!

Fans with ideas need to make a group and help each other produce books. If we did maybe I'd get the fluff and stories I need to finish Rifts: Alyeska... :,(

[Nightmartree]

The level of creativity and abundance of ideas in this thread is inspiring and heart breaking at the same time. With such a creative fan base behind PB there's no reason that there aren't enough Rifter articles on any single topic to spawn new books monthly. But at the same time not all game lines receive the same attention and ideas that would work for other systems aren't applied. Thus we're left with a glut of books for one line while others haven't seen anything since they were first printed.

(rant over)

Keep up the good work people. You're doing fantastic!

Fans with ideas need to make a group and help each other produce books. If we did maybe I'd get the fluff and stories I need to finish Rifts: Alyeska... :,(

I have too many ideas and too little time, I still haven't written out psi-avatars, Mushree mushroom magic, I might be able to swing a new line of guns that borgs and supes would love, I have a inventor from before the rifts stuck in a lab somewhere building a robot army but I keep losing his exact stats and remaking him...and these are just the big ones I have on hand/need to finish...but i'm putting them off cause i'm writing an rpg system and a book as well as looking for work

creativity sucks

[taalismn]

[q

creativity sucks

Indeed...at work my mind would be buzzing...off work, I'd fall asleep. Now that I have plenty of time to work on my creative ideas that I freely post, I really wish I was at work...
Add a manic-depressive cycle on top of that.

[ShadowLogan]

[

Macross-7 trumps that, on all factors of horror.

"BAASSRAAA!!! NOBODY GIVES A $####!!!!+++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Can't comment directly on M7 being better or worse, BUT I can make the following statement:
The Robotech RPG did it First (Amazon says 1E printing is from 1989, Wikipedia says M7 comes from 1994-95 for its original run), or at least before Macross. Now Macross and maybe other shows I can think of (SDC:SC comes to mind, so it isn't strictly a Macross thing) use songs, but nothing as outlandish as instrumecha. Though several 80's cartoons had their "band/song/sound" episodes.

The Congolese Tech Republic, built from the Remnants of a Golden Age Society prioritised around space technology. The DRC has more Equatorial land than anywhere else on earth. Assuming some golden technological age in the future, they are primed to be a primary launch site. They'd also be an excellent place to build a space elevator, which is another idea I like. A Massive tower that fell during the rifts, it's material utilised to construct post-rifts technology. Maybe a remnant of it is some 10-mile high tower that can be seen far away.

That might be out of place with Mutants in Orbit though for the space tower/elevator and GA space powers (Russia, US, Europe, Japan). To work might require rectoning the MiO Rifts section or worked in such a way to not conflict.

[SolCannibal]

[

Macross-7 trumps that, on all factors of horror.

"BAASSRAAA!!! NOBODY GIVES A $####!!!!+++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Can't comment directly on M7 being better or worse, BUT I can make the following statement:
The Robotech RPG did it First (Amazon says 1E printing is from 1989, Wikipedia says M7 comes from 1994-95 for its original run), or at least before Macross. Now Macross and maybe other shows I can think of (SDC:SC comes to mind, so it isn't strictly a Macross thing) use songs, but nothing as outlandish as instrumecha. Though several 80's cartoons had their "band/song/sound" episodes.

Consider yourself lucky you never had to take a long, hard look at Macross-7. It's far more outlandish than anything in Lancer's Rockers might dream to be and very much a part of Macross' canon. Macross Delta has elements that get closer to some of the concepts in Rockers' - at least from what i heard through friends, haven't really watched it yet - but gives them a more developed, expansive and fantastic spin that actually sounds interesting overall.

The Congolese Tech Republic, built from the Remnants of a Golden Age Society prioritised around space technology. The DRC has more Equatorial land than anywhere else on earth. Assuming some golden technological age in the future, they are primed to be a primary launch site. They'd also be an excellent place to build a space elevator, which is another idea I like. A Massive tower that fell during the rifts, it's material utilised to construct post-rifts technology. Maybe a remnant of it is some 10-mile high tower that can be seen far away.

That might be out of place with Mutants in Orbit though for the space tower/elevator and GA space powers (Russia, US, Europe, Japan). To work might require rectoning the MiO Rifts section or worked in such a way to not conflict.

Not exactly. The background information can be treated from a "that's what we know/fragmentary & unreliable sources tell us" point of view for starters, making room for a GM to insert elements in a game that do not quite fit with what's available in MiO. Not to mention that book's "this is an After the Bomb book, but also a Rifts book anyway" treatment can get messy, contradicting and problematic at times if taken at face value.

[taalismn]

Herd Animal Gestalts----some animal species mutate to follow leylines, and/or acquire the ability to pool minds to become human+ level of intelligence...suddenly hunters are facing herds acting in concert.
Extreme Mode---They acquire super psionics.
Munchkin Mode---They can actually merge bodies to form giant monstrous bioconstructs to stomp predators.

It can be done, using the HU Gestalt tables.

[SolCannibal]

Herd Animal Gestalts----some animal species mutate to follow leylines, and/or acquire the ability to pool minds to become human+ level of intelligence...suddenly hunters are facing herds acting in concert.

Or they could, i don't know, empathize, domesticate, work in concert with them?

Extreme Mode---They acquire super psionics.
Munchkin Mode---They can actually merge bodies to form giant monstrous bioconstructs to stomp predators.

It can be done, using the HU Gestalt tables.

Now i'm imagining some beasts merging with "chosen people" to make superpowered man-beasts understood as "totem spirits in form of flesh", sacred agents of the returned true egyptian gods or any of a number of alternatives.

[taalismn]

Herd Animal Gestalts----some animal species mutate to follow leylines, and/or acquire the ability to pool minds to become human+ level of intelligence...suddenly hunters are facing herds acting in concert.

Or they could, i don't know, empathize, domesticate, work in concert with them?

Where's the fun in that?

Like the GEICO ad; 'Antelope get nightvision goggles'.

Unless you're thinking that intelligent herds sacrifice sick or disabled individuals/components to predators...but can turn and attack if the predators overstep the accepted limits.

[glitterboy2098]

Fun little Mythology from Zimbabwe that might be good fodder for ideas..
Makoma
the story also got a rendition made in the Hellboy comics (where Hellboy is told the story and we see him filling the role of makoma as it plays out. that version had been tweaked some though to fit the meta-arc hellboy was on at the time)

[taalismn]

Fun little Mythology from Zimbabwe that might be good fodder for ideas..
Makoma
the story also got a rendition made in the Hellboy comics (where Hellboy is told the story and we see him filling the role of makoma as it plays out. that version had been tweaked some though to fit the meta-arc hellboy was on at the time)

Nu-endo instantly equals Greater Magic Weapon.
Plenty of magic giants.
Disappeared heroes waiting in some extradimensional realm(waiting for a sign to return?).

[ShadowLogan]

Not exactly. The background information can be treated from a "that's what we know/fragmentary & unreliable sources tell us" point of view for starters, making room for a GM to insert elements in a game that do not quite fit with what's available in MiO. Not to mention that book's "this is an After the Bomb book, but also a Rifts book anyway" treatment can get messy, contradicting and problematic at times if taken at face value.

I know we can take some liberty with the background info when moving forward (KS certainly has with the CyberKnights), but there are things to consider:
1. Space Tower/Elevators would be easier to build on the Moon (& Mars), but the Moon (& Mars) doesn't have them (AFAIK). So if there was a site on GA-Earth, it would not be a completed. Even if we wanted to go with a proof of concept, such PoCs would seem to favor the Moon over a site on Earth.
2. Dinosaur Swamp (pg110-11 WB26) states experiments where under way for faster and cheaper ways to put things into space. Unfortunately space programs around the world seemed to go with "more powerful engines", though "desire for even faster, more efficient methods of reaching outer space" exists, the Space Elevator isn't mentioned only KLS and Cyberworks ideas. So if the space elvator was being developed, it would seem to require it to be faster and cheaper. Japan was developing similar technology to KLS (KLS was more stargate-ish, Japan was doing more transporter), though I don't recall off hand the reason for it.
3. MiO may be an AtB book, with Rifts as an after thought, but WB9 and the Arkhons bring it ways into main stream. Aftermath covers the setting to, further supporting it (I don't have the book though). So it isn't just one book to contend with but three (maybe more).
4. You still have to work with the rough frame work provided from the books that came before it, so you'd need to explain why these don't get a mention in WB4 or Aftermath, or the tech gets a mention in the space book (even PW doesn't use it IINM). Granted there are rectons in the setting, but I'm not aware of any overt players being rectoned to this level requiring such a player to be a shadow player (like Archie, FoM, Republicans, etc).

[Wise_Owl]

An Obvious answer would be to make it a work in progress. Something that was say, 40-50 percent of the way through construction when the Rifts hit and everything went sideways. Though even without that(I just like the visual really...) a Tech Republic around the Congo with repurposed Space Technology would be pretty interesting. You could have them, for example, have developed a semi-philosophical/religious obsession with regaining space.

Though as a Side-Note I have long thought that Mutants in Orbit could do with a hefty rework for Rifts. There are some neat idea's there, but they could be developed alot further. I mean Mars alone should have more going on there than it does in MiO.

[taalismn]

If not space elevators, how about massdrivers?
Sovietski mentions a variant of the idea in the Storm Cannons, but how about bigger ones in North Africa?

[ShadowLogan]

If not space elevators, how about massdrivers?
Sovietski mentions a variant of the idea in the Storm Cannons, but how about bigger ones in North Africa?

This is a bit tricky to answer since it can come in two forms, but yes I could see it as way to reduce cost in many respects.

In the first form you would use the mass driver, or a mass-driver like system to act as the aircraft launch catapult on an aircraft carrier. You'd have to balance a few factors like how much velocity you want to impart and acceleration. The benefit is that you get a reusable stage (reducing costs), you increase the payload capacity (or increase the range), and you don't need to balance mass for power return.

In the second form, if you wanted to impart the total velocity necessary to achieve orbit, that I'm less sure would be a good idea. Especially if you are trying to use it to launch a manned craft. On the Moon it makes sense, but I'm not sure if it would be practical or wise on Earth. Anything fired from them at orbital velocities will need top of the line thermal management system to handle all the atmospheric friction that would steel velocity. Though I am not 100% sure on the use for Earth.

[Khanibal]

One of those 2 mile long mag-lev rails that look like a giant ski-jump, best used with a scramjet.
How about a laser launch, where the bottom of the craft is bell-shaped with extra material between the top of the bell, and the bottom of the cabin. The laser vaporizes that material and the vapor propels the craft.

[taalismn]

If not space elevators, how about massdrivers?
Sovietski mentions a variant of the idea in the Storm Cannons, but how about bigger ones in North Africa?

This is a bit tricky to answer since it can come in two forms, but yes I could see it as way to reduce cost in many respects.

In the first form you would use the mass driver, or a mass-driver like system to act as the aircraft launch catapult on an aircraft carrier. You'd have to balance a few factors like how much velocity you want to impart and acceleration. The benefit is that you get a reusable stage (reducing costs), you increase the payload capacity (or increase the range), and you don't need to balance mass for power return.

In the second form, if you wanted to impart the total velocity necessary to achieve orbit, that I'm less sure would be a good idea. Especially if you are trying to use it to launch a manned craft. On the Moon it makes sense, but I'm not sure if it would be practical or wise on Earth. Anything fired from them at orbital velocities will need top of the line thermal management system to handle all the atmospheric friction that would steel velocity. Though I am not 100% sure on the use for Earth.

The lower powered catapult would be good for lofting full fueled shuttles to ignition altitude as you note, while the full-power to orbit system would be used for lofting bulk cargoes(including water) to space(at least until ice mining began meeting the Orbitals' needs).

Ionically, the Japanese manga series 2001 Nights has an episode with an orbital transfer 'gun' tossing payload containers to the Moon. It gets hijacked by African extremists who feel the resources would be better spent on the suffering economies of a war-torn Africa.
Now, what if in this Golden Age, Africa was essentially the terrestrial grocers of the Orbitals, and making money hand over fist on leases and supply contracts shooting cargo cans into space?

[glitterboy2098]

actually in theory you could use a special gun design to fire payloads into orbit. but it would be a really finnicky system, and IRL it has only been attempted a few times, none successfully. using railgun/coilgun tech you could probably make it work, but there is no way it would survive intact through the cataclysm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Babylon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Now, what if in this Golden Age, Africa was essentially the terrestrial grocers of the Orbitals, and making money hand over fist on leases and supply contracts shooting cargo cans into space?

I'm laughing to hard at the imagery mdc cargo containers being launched at the moon like rounds from a giant rail gun. I'm laughing even harder at the idea of failures in the system.

Targeting off a bit?
"We have the sad duty today to report a massive loss of life as casualties from yesterday's StS resource launch and retrieval continue to mount. Our sources on the ground report that there was a slight calculation error by the targeting technician operating the Costco Super Accelerator.

This error, which would have been meaningless over short distances, turned into a fatal catastrophe when factoring in planetary rotation and the distance from the Earth to the Lunar surface. The resource container, which contained 2.78 tons of canned goods and non perishable household items, missed the intended retrieval site by nearly 200 miles. Instead it impacted the Lunar surface at 33 times the speed of sound and completely obliterated the Agri-12 farming collective. We here at Luna News channel 23 send our thoughts and prayers to those affected by the tragedy."

[taalismn]

actually in theory you could use a special gun design to fire payloads into orbit. but it would be a really finnicky system, and IRL it has only been attempted a few times, none successfully. using railgun/coilgun tech you could probably make it work, but there is no way it would survive intact through the cataclysm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Babylon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP

Have a new community built around servicing a surface-to-orbit gun(or several, make it a launch complex with slower catapults for commercial shuttles and faster 'ram guns' for lobbing payload capsules). It's got security for keeping out terrorists and the occasional desperate and ignorant 'landing gear hitchhiker'.
Or, it could be a laser-launch site. It's commercial aerospace, with the occasional non-military government contract(the world militaries prefer to fly their cargoes on their own space transport system).
The Coming of the Rifts destroys the actual launchers(maybe some weird EM hoodoo catastrophically zaps the launchers, a kaiju lands on them and/or several last minute launches get sent into dimensional rifts never to be seen again) but the nearby community survives with several offline(but repairable) banks of power generators, large machine shops, and several warehouses packed to the rafters with supplies meant to increase the self-sufficiency of the offworld colonies.
The base survives to become a nucleus of tech-civilization in the area, and it's sufficiently distant from major population centers that it isn't swamped by refugees and the monsters coming after them.
The local villages around the launch base have come to call the station 'the stairway to heaven' because of the still-visible launch ramps, but the launch systems remain inoperable(and frankly the base descendants have quit efforts to repair them because they've lost contact with the Orbitals, and/or critical components of the systems not in stock on base and beyond their ability to make onsite were destroyed.
Good thing for them, because the Orbitals , upon seeing functional launchers, might have been tempted to drop a rock on them.

[taalismn]

Now, what if in this Golden Age, Africa was essentially the terrestrial grocers of the Orbitals, and making money hand over fist on leases and supply contracts shooting cargo cans into space?

I'm laughing to hard at the imagery mdc cargo containers being launched at the moon like rounds from a giant rail gun. I'm laughing even harder at the idea of failures in the system.

Targeting off a bit?
"We have the sad duty today to report a massive loss of life as casualties from yesterday's StS resource launch and retrieval continue to mount. Our sources on the ground report that there was a slight calculation error by the targeting technician operating the Costco Super Accelerator.."

In the 2001 Nights manga, it was the plan of the terrorists to DELIBERATELY target the moon colony with an explosive payload that would have blow the colony into oblivion.
In James Hogan's novel The Two Faces of Tomorrow, the need for a SAFE super-AI becomes evident when a pair of lunar construction workers ask the base AI to clear an obstacle on a construction site. Instead of sending a robot bulldozer, the AI takes over a lunar massdriver and programs its cargo capsules to impact on the obstacle like a Fist of God, nearly killing the workers.

Yeah, in space Newton is the meanest ####er.

[ShadowLogan]

The lower powered catapult would be good for lofting full fueled shuttles to ignition altitude as you note, while the full-power to orbit system would be used for lofting bulk cargoes(including water) to space(at least until ice mining began meeting the Orbitals' needs).

Ionically, the Japanese manga series 2001 Nights has an episode with an orbital transfer 'gun' tossing payload containers to the Moon. It gets hijacked by African extremists who feel the resources would be better spent on the suffering economies of a war-torn Africa.
Now, what if in this Golden Age, Africa was essentially the terrestrial grocers of the Orbitals, and making money hand over fist on leases and supply contracts shooting cargo cans into space?

Not familiar with 2001:Nights. The thing with the cat2 is they are going to be big. Below is a link with a proposed space gun (conventional) that is over 3000ft long (almost 4000ft), and it doesn't reach orbital velocity (1/2). Getting something for Earth-Lunar flight is going to require that much more velocity ontop of this. Sure you can use it as a "1st Stage" still, but you still run into a few problems:
-g-rating the equipment for the accelerations involved (talking very rugged materials, and certainly no manned flights, so you might save in one area but raise the cost in another)
-we aren't talking about something sized from Jules Vernes "From the Earth to the Moon" either (a 3-man capsule), but much smaller
-Vernes gun in his story actually needs to be bigger than what it was described at to actually work IINM.

Now you can get around those problems by making the system physically bigger.

GA Africa though might not be the only option for that though, you'd also expect to see something like it in South America (which is already home to a rocket launch site). Or even the Pacific/Atlantic Oceans.

https://www.popsci.com/technology/artic ... lies-space