Do you play Bad guys?

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:24 pm

I do!

I set one or two of my games in Marvel:the Lost Generation.
The super-heroes are the Npc.
My player characters are the bad guys.

I am Still woking on them.

drewkitty ~..~ · Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:11 am

No........selfish...but not bad.

MrTwist · Unread post by **MrTwist** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:37 am

I guess it really depends on your definition of bad guys. Accidental killers, or criminals? Yes, there is a difference. Even a 'good guy' can be a multiple murderer. In fact, some of the good guys in my player group have killed, mainly through misuse of their own powers(our resident Supernatural strength bruiser is now *very* careful with his own strength after killing a villain). I have a character who is an ex-government assassin. He has killed a lot of people in his time, but now he has reformed his ways and is a typical hero. Well, with one exception. If he believes it's absolutely necessary for the better good, he will kill. Because of how useful he is, the rest of the group turns a blind eye to some of his less than shining examples of heroism.

As for crime being the main focus of the group, we really haven't run down that path yet. Although some of our newer players have been playing the 'dark' or 'anti hero' archetype(think Punisher, Venom, The Authority, Hitman, etc...). I guess the vigilante who answers to no one is becoming more popular these days.

Well, in short, I guess my answer is yes and no. Yes mainly because I am our current GM. I AM the bad guy.

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:33 pm

Too me the Bad Guys are Criminals.

I think it will be Fun to Play a HU,s game from the Point of View of the Bad Guys.

Think about it who can do things as a Criminal that you can't do as a Super-hero.

You will like to known what it feels like to be in the Masters of Evil or the Hellfire Club.

I think a Game will be better if some players are Good Guys and some are Bad!

GundamChief · Unread post by **GundamChief** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:57 pm

Hell yeah!

All my bad guys are either just really mean, or they are world dominators/ Destroyers.

One guy I made was named "Infurnius" and he was a really baaad dude.

he was a mutant who had read skin and a skeletal looking body (you know skeleton bones on skin) with charcoal colored rock skin. he also had a demon tail which added to the coolness and horror of him.

and just to make him the ultimate bad guy, he was diabolic and (Although a little munchkin) had 6 MAJOR abilities.

been awhile since I looked, I think he had, Sonic flight, Supernatrual strength, Energy Expulsion: Energy, Alter Physical form: Fire (to add to his demon visage), Slow motion control (for combat use) and Invulnerability.

His personaltiy is alot like knives from Trigun, except not as much of a pansey (though Knives was pretty mean!).

anyway, YES, badguys are cool.

Not real ones though.

ZEN · Unread post by **ZEN** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:18 am

Not only would I shy away from running a players as villains campaign, but none of my role playing group would go for it.. they just refuse to play bad guys.
Anyway, bad guys have a much harder time of it than heroes.. they not only have the police after them, but scores of tough vigilantes, secret govt agents and even the military.. no, the life span of a serious super criminal is not a long one.
Its much more fun to have the player characters branded as bad guys and have them constantly fighting their gutter reputation.. it is tempting for them to just give in and put criminals six feet under.. I mean, thats what people expect them to do right?
But I make very sure that the players know when it is ok to pull out all the stops and go NATO on the bad guys and when they have to pull the punches because the spotlight is definately on them.
8-)

MrTwist · Unread post by **MrTwist** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:13 am

Writers Block wrote:Not only do I, but I have even been brought into campaigns, secretly, to play the main villain on two seperate occassions. The GM wanted me to be the main baddie...end the players wouldn't know until the climactic moment....very cool.

That is really a great change of pace. A wolf in sheep's clothing, so to speak. It can give a campaign a good boost, and it is also a great way for a player to experience a different side of the story. I do suggest the practice to any group looking for a way to spice up the game. A good way to do it is to have the main-bad guy-PC actually join the player's super group. I've done it before, and find it can actually make a multiple session story line become that much more interesting.

Saitou Hajime · Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:19 pm

I normally play Abberant when I play evil because . . . well I do I hguess anyway, I was playing a TMNT where we were all evil escaped mutents trying to live on on the run. anyway we had burst into a dinner to rob it and two character were outside for some reason as the dioblic Wolverine disided to kill the cowering humans just because he killed one and then I blew him away natural 20 aimed for the head. I claimed that one of the humans had pulled a gun and shot him and then I killed the human.

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:00 pm

if by bad you mean, stomp on a kitten because its cute, then no, not really.

i mean, i have to GM, and as such tend to "play" the npc's..

but my own personal NPC's (who i do view as my character) tend to be evil with a heart of gold, or something along those lines.

someone who is forced to kill to survive, or someone who was a killer in his past and saw the error of his ways, but now treads the line between hero and killer.

its fun.

my girlfriend on the other hand, tends to play bad girls...so i find myself in the position of trying to reign her in..what a trip.

btw, i just turned 24 yesterday, congratulate me on not getting stuck by lightni...BKOW!!!

"BLARGH!"

*sizzles quietly*

Zenvis · Unread post by **Zenvis** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:23 am

Of course I play bad guys, but then again dent we all? These characters that we play are rogues and vigilantes. Of course they are the lesser of two evils but we are criminals.

Hell knight · Unread post by **Hell knight** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:33 pm

My players, are the heroes. But they are not, to good. They will bend the laws, and break small ones. But they wont, go to far.

Hell Knight
power is not corruption, corruption is power.

Saitou Hajime · Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:00 pm

no, at least in my mind it not.

personally I play what ever I am in the mood for though there is a reason [I don't play AD&D pallidins any more, nothing like losing you Pallidinhood because you killed someone because they were going to do something wrong]

I had a couple alignment shifts in games. I remember an arguement about about my Scruplous Superhero having his alighnmentment shift to Diabolic because I feed a [unpower] Child molester through a wood chipper.

Sentinel · Unread post by **Sentinel** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:19 pm

I think it was Bob Dylan who said "To Live outside the law, you must be honest".

I don't run Villain games (although I have played in a couple). Do the heroes sometimes break the law the better to serve Justice? Yes. Do they break the law to conquer the world? No.

Uncle Servo · Unread post by **Uncle Servo** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:36 pm

Not all outlaws are evil. Best case in point -- Robin Hood.

If you're talking about evil alignments, while I have done so from time to time in the past I'm not really that into it.

Overlord Rikonius · Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:53 pm

Playing a villains game adds an issue which can complicate and enrich your game.
Villains are the instigators. If the players play villains, then (unless they're flunkies to an NPC leader), they decide what the adventure is most of the time.
The GM can dangle a hook ("the city museum has the Big Honkin' Diamond on display next week") but the players could go "aw, another jewel heist? I was kinda hoping we could kidnap the mayor and suspend him over a sharktank"
I would say playing the villains (unless you go the flunky route) would require a more advanced team of players.
Fun but tricky to work with. Hmm, maybe My next game will be a villains game

sinestus · Unread post by **sinestus** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:20 pm

done a couple villain games

sometimes they run well...

the last one i did, was set in the 1930s... and they were the classic "Evil Genious seeks to blow up world" group...
one of the better games we've done,
but had the key problem that the players have no flare for the dramatic...

when the "heroes" showed up to stop them, and they bested the heroes,
they killed em...

right there

bullet to the head

no discussion
no monologue
no rubbing it in their face

nothin

so after the 3rd goup of similarly geared heroes tried to stop them
they tracked down who was supplying the heroes (another scientist)
and killed him
then used his super hero formula to make their own super minions...

the problem was... gamers are often practical.
they've seen the villians mistakes, and thus know how to avoid them...
and it's really hard to make heroes what'll stop them without specifically targeting their weaknesses...

but sometimes it's fun to cut loose and do the dark side thing...

Sentinel · Unread post by **Sentinel** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:55 pm

sinestus wrote:done a couple villain games

sometimes they run well...

the last one i did, was set in the 1930s... and they were the classic "Evil Genious seeks to blow up world" group...
one of the better games we've done,
but had the key problem that the players have no flare for the dramatic...

when the "heroes" showed up to stop them, and they bested the heroes,
they killed em...

right there

bullet to the head

no discussion
no monologue
no rubbing it in their face

nothin

so after the 3rd goup of similarly geared heroes tried to stop them
they tracked down who was supplying the heroes (another scientist)
and killed him
then used his super hero formula to make their own super minions...

the problem was... gamers are often practical.
they've seen the villians mistakes, and thus know how to avoid them...
and it's really hard to make heroes what'll stop them without specifically targeting their weaknesses...

but sometimes it's fun to cut loose and do the dark side thing...

What you do there, is put them up against heroes who are just as vicious as they are...you know, the one they've been pestering you to let them play. Once they encounter a bloodthirsty mega hero or two, I think their perspective will have changed.

sinestus · Unread post by **sinestus** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:21 pm

Sentinel wrote:
What you do there, is put them up against heroes who are just as vicious as they are...you know, the one they've been pestering you to let them play. Once they encounter a bloodthirsty mega hero or two, I think their perspective will have changed.

generally, that's what i do...

but look at the classics...

villains tend to fail 'cause they overestimate their capabilities... opting to go 1 on 1 with heroes when offered the chance...
or taking a handful of minions to check out the good guy's skills...

these guys weren't stupid...
it wasn't "I threaten to blow up the city, and get a randsom"
it was "I blow up the city... just to test the device... then write my name across the continent with it..."

minions had open faceplaces, and standing "shoot on sight" orders for intruders...

and heroes found multiple buildings destroyed just to put them down...
heck... the "team leader" of the group once sacrificed their best fighter to kill a hero who was beating him... detonated a city block to take 'em both out...

and those were in the games when they'd act like classic comic book villains and take credit for their evil...

(in the 20s game, they always had a set of puppets pretending to be them... with a mysterios "Shadow" figure they all reported to... and the "team leader" of that one always made it seem he was just an innocent kid who had no idea what was going on...)

... man those were good times...

anyways... back to the matter at hand...

Overlord Rikonius · Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:01 pm

who says the villains' chief opponents have to be heroes at all?

they could have most of their challenges come from rival supervillains

Sentinel · Unread post by **Sentinel** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:31 am

Unkledak wrote:I'm almost tempted to start a new post for this, but to heck with it. I don't think killing is always evil. I know, I know it goes against every thing I learned in philosophy too. But is a commando evil for killing a guard, if the mission is vital? If the actions will serve the greater good? A soldier on the battlefield? Without getting too political, would it have been better to send an assassin to kill Hitler, or Saddam? Or to fight a war that takes thousands, millions? Killing can be just, if the cause is just and the need great. Not merely an expediency, a true need. If these conditions hold true, then the Assassin can be the Hero.

I think that by the virtue of the mission being Virtuous to begin with, then the character subjectively can't be considered an assasin.

Sentinel · Unread post by **Sentinel** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:48 pm

...I ddn't know the profanity got automatically editted...I typed the asterix' in myself...

>D'OH!!!<

Sentinel · Unread post by **Sentinel** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:21 pm

So, how about expanding the alignment table, perhaps with one additonal catagory of Good, which would be a step below 'Scrupulous', and one more catagory of Selfish, which would fall between 'unpricipled' and 'anarchist'?
I would think that three catagories per class would do it, and Evil already has three.
DC heroes first edition had some good motivations for both good and evil characters, and were easily translatable to any other game, I had found.

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