Atlantean Prison?

[Reddenedone]

I was tossing around a few ideas on how Atlanteans would handle crime on their home world, Alexandria. Most importantly, how their prison system works. Like, if an Atlantean commits murder, how are they punished?? Brainstorming is much appreciated.

thanks

[Zer0 Kay]

maybe their are tatoos they use that inhibits certain desires (rapist, child molesters etc.)
one that erases memory (instead of a death penalty)
and one that replays the act from the victims side (for assault) that would be removed after the sentence was served.

[Reddenedone]

What would happen if they found the person innocent?

[Zer0 Kay]

What would happen if they found the person innocent?

I don't know apologize at least with the memory erasure the person would still be around.

Maybe if it's a tatoo they could simply remove it.

As for the assault maybe they'd only work if you had done it since all the tatoo that made one relive it would do is amplify the psychic residue of the victim that was left on the assailant.

For the habitual/desire offender if you didn't do it there is nothing to inhibit

[Reddenedone]

Do you think since they are big dimensional travelers they would have found a way to make little pocket dimensions to hold prisoners (all pitch black and everything... spooky) or maybe they'd find a dimension to dump prisoners, and if they did, would other races use it for the same purpose?

[Zer0 Kay]

Do you think since they are big dimensional travelers they would have found a way to make little pocket dimensions to hold prisoners (all pitch black and everything... spooky) or maybe they'd find a dimension to dump prisoners, and if they did, would other races use it for the same purpose?

sure their called America and Australia

[Zer0 Kay]

I think the tatoos are more likely. their more humain and have the fail safes I mentioned.

After all if you do put someone in the "Phantom Zone" and find them innocent what do you do? What do you say to them? Is it just like our current system...uh sorry for placing you in there I hope your boyfriend didn't treat you too harshly. Or in the case of rapeist even the falsly accused...uh sorry the other inmates killed you. Death penalty...uh we just got a pardon from the governor...what do you mean it's two minutes past twelve?

[Reddenedone]

Your probably very right about all that. It is noted that most Atlanteans are good, and protectors of the megaverse and such. Except for the Aerihman clan anyway.

[grandmaster z0b]

As far as innocence/guilt is concerned just get a mind melter to Mind Bond, whilst holding the suspect in prison. Actually make that 3 mind melters, to avoid the possibility of corruption.
I like the pocket dimension idea, but I think there would be something there not just darkness. Maybe it's a nightmare world, or better yet makes the guilty party re-live their crime from the victims point of view again and again.
If you want a physical prison what about a Rune cage/cell ie. cannot be broken and is escape proof. It could be similar to a Holy Weapon and made by a God of Justice. I think there would only be one and it would be reserved for the most dangerous criminals, and only used as a holding cell during the Mind Bond.

[Reddenedone]

In the case of corruption, if the party was innocent, but found guilty, and appropriately punished, what would the innocent party do? If the party in question saw something they weren't supposed to, then was found out, and framed for murder, imprisoned, traumatized, and then escaped - in what situation could all of this be feasable on Alexandria?

[grandmaster z0b]

If you mean how could the guilt/innocence via Mind Bond be corrupted, well if the suspect was mentally unstable then nobody would Mind Bond because of the dangers to their own mind.

Or if that was not the case but you still wanted someone innocent put away, what if a corrupt official higher up had say kidnapped someone very close to the psychic "Judges" like a son, daughter or wife and forced them to judge the suspect guilty even though they actually knew they were innocent.
If that were the case then maybe one of the psychic judges couldn't live with the guilt so created a "back door" for the innocent prisoner to escape from, but after so long in the prison had gone a little mad.

[Reddenedone]

This is the scenario: The person has a neurosis, fear of the dark - but I wanted it to be 'dark' related, using the idea that claustrophobia can be caused by locking a subject in a confined space for a long period of time.

so my idea was that - so far - The person in question, grew up on Alexandria with her family and such. The eldest sibling volunteered to be an aid to an town Elder. He is particularly close to the third born, his younger sister. She had witnessed a horrible crime, and the Elder was involved. She told her older brother what she saw because she was so disturbed by it, and he had mentioned something to his 'boss'. The Elder took it upon him to have her disposed of. He had her framed for all the crimes that had been recently committed - a perfect scapegoat. Through some creative propaganda, the Elder had the whole town convinced. The brother turned her in readily, believing her guilty, which hurt the girl deeply.

So then I figure, they locked her up and threw away the key, and maybe even scared her a bit - something had to happen, because her Burster powers manifested themselves and she got an insanity. But she had to get out somehow - so maybe her brother found out the truth, and gave her a hint - but I think that would put him and the rest of his family in danger. There are too many holes for me, and some more possible plot twists. How did she escape? How was she locked up? What caused her fear? etc etc etc.

Or is the whole thing all wrong, and should I take a different approach?

[Borast]

From my understanding of the "original" archetypal Atlantis, they was an enlightened dictatorship. Punishments tended to "fit the crime," and be otherwise brutal, but not as brutal as the other nations of the Earth at the time.

The typical prison would have been dangerous, violent, and humiliating... The purpose would be punishment, not rehabilitation.

Many crimes would be punishable by death or mutilations, and "minor" crimes would see long incarseration.

However, since the True Atlanteans are remarkably egalitarian, social class of the victim would have little to do with your punishment. Also, modern TAs have NOTHING to do with punishment, or government. If you want to see what they would do, get the book that lists typical punishments for crimes in the U.W.W. As for the TA response, they would likely simply act on behaviours like shun or exile the offender.

[Zer0 Kay]

In the case of corruption, if the party was innocent, but found guilty, and appropriately punished, what would the innocent party do? If the party in question saw something they weren't supposed to, then was found out, and framed for murder, imprisoned, traumatized, and then escaped - in what situation could all of this be feasable on Alexandria?

Sorry I love my idea of penal tatoos. If you aren't guilty basically the Tatoos would have no effect. If it was the memory erasure one and the person is later found innocent remove the tatoo.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The atlantians don't have the ability to create new Tatoos. only the Chaing-Ku can. so Peanl tattos are right out.

they would use normal meathods and punishments. they're human. they wouldn't do anything particually special.

[Zer0 Kay]

The atlantians don't have the ability to create new Tatoos. only the Chaing-Ku can. so Peanl tattos are right out.

they would use normal meathods and punishments. they're human. they wouldn't do anything particually special.

yeah except for the fact that uh it's a game and maybe the Chaing-ku already produced these tatoos for the TA?

A predominantly good race will not use regular methods that humans use. Humans are predominantly selfish. We do most things to make ourselves feel better. What kind of person could consider himself good for wanting blind vengance. Blind because the blame will be placed on the first person possible and even if they are proven innocent and the criminal isn't found the person who was wronged would still rather see the innocent person punished than no one at all.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The atlantians don't have the ability to create new Tatoos. only the Chaing-Ku can. so Peanl tattos are right out.

they would use normal meathods and punishments. they're human. they wouldn't do anything particually special.

yeah except for the fact that uh it's a game and maybe the Chaing-ku already produced these tatoos for the TA?

A predominantly good race will not use regular methods that humans use. Humans are predominantly selfish. We do most things to make ourselves feel better. What kind of person could consider himself good for wanting blind vengance. Blind because the blame will be placed on the first person possible and even if they are proven innocent and the criminal isn't found the person who was wronged would still rather see the innocent person punished than no one at all.

ummm. . .TA ARE human

[Zer0 Kay]

The atlantians don't have the ability to create new Tatoos. only the Chaing-Ku can. so Peanl tattos are right out.

they would use normal meathods and punishments. they're human. they wouldn't do anything particually special.

yeah except for the fact that uh it's a game and maybe the Chaing-ku already produced these tatoos for the TA?

A predominantly good race will not use regular methods that humans use. Humans are predominantly selfish. We do most things to make ourselves feel better. What kind of person could consider himself good for wanting blind vengance. Blind because the blame will be placed on the first person possible and even if they are proven innocent and the criminal isn't found the person who was wronged would still rather see the innocent person punished than no one at all.

ummm. . .TA ARE human

Yeah and were hairless monkeys. They are the descendants of human Atlantians. They have evolved or otherwise mutated or found some other species that was biologically compatible with humans. They are as human as the Sea Titans. There DNA just isn't the same anymore there's got to be some small difference that allows them to age at a different rate and something drastically different to make it so that the great evils are confined to the Sunaj Tribe. Then again maybe the Sunaj were the result of the penal system they were banished and came back to haunt them now as Sunaj.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The atlantians don't have the ability to create new Tatoos. only the Chaing-Ku can. so Peanl tattos are right out.

they would use normal meathods and punishments. they're human. they wouldn't do anything particually special.

yeah except for the fact that uh it's a game and maybe the Chaing-ku already produced these tatoos for the TA?

A predominantly good race will not use regular methods that humans use. Humans are predominantly selfish. We do most things to make ourselves feel better. What kind of person could consider himself good for wanting blind vengance. Blind because the blame will be placed on the first person possible and even if they are proven innocent and the criminal isn't found the person who was wronged would still rather see the innocent person punished than no one at all.

ummm. . .TA ARE human

They are as human as the Sea Titans. There DNA just isn't the same anymore there's got to be some small difference that allows them to age at a different rate and something drastically different to make it so that the evil of their humanity is confined to the Sunaj.

there has to be some small difference in the DNA for Timmy to live 90 years while Mack only lives 'till 70.

there has to be a reason why some people are naturally muscular while others lift weights constantly for little game.

there has to be a reason why bob is 6'7" while jerry is 5'3.

there is a difference in DNA. they're all human though.

[Zer0 Kay]

there has to be some small difference in the DNA for Timmy to live 90 years while Mack only lives 'till 70.

there has to be a reason why some people are naturally muscular while others lift weights constantly for little game.

there has to be a reason why bob is 6'7" while jerry is 5'3.

there is a difference in DNA. they're all human though.

Yeah and were monkeys.

There's a big difference between Timmy vs Mack 90 and 70 and Humans vs Atlanteans 80 and 500. It would be one thing if a 100 year old Atlantean looked like a 100 year old human but they look like 20-30 something year old humans

[Nekira Sudacne]

there has to be some small difference in the DNA for Timmy to live 90 years while Mack only lives 'till 70.

there has to be a reason why some people are naturally muscular while others lift weights constantly for little game.

there has to be a reason why bob is 6'7" while jerry is 5'3.

there is a difference in DNA. they're all human though.

Yeah and were monkeys.

There's a big difference between Timmy vs Mack 90 and 70 and Humans vs Atlanteans 80 and 500. It would be one thing if a 100 year old Atlantean looked like a 100 year old human but they look like 20-30 something year old humans

you done any reserch into aging? there isn't a very big difference stopping us from living that long as-is. just a few strands of proteans really.

[Zer0 Kay]

This is the scenario: The person has a neurosis, fear of the dark - but I wanted it to be 'dark' related, using the idea that claustrophobia can be caused by locking a subject in a confined space for a long period of time.

so my idea was that - so far - The person in question, grew up on Alexandria with her family and such. The eldest sibling volunteered to be an aid to an town Elder. He is particularly close to the third born, his younger sister. She had witnessed a horrible crime, and the Elder was involved. She told her older brother what she saw because she was so disturbed by it, and he had mentioned something to his 'boss'. The Elder took it upon him to have her disposed of. He had her framed for all the crimes that had been recently committed - a perfect scapegoat. Through some creative propaganda, the Elder had the whole town convinced. The brother turned her in readily, believing her guilty, which hurt the girl deeply.

So then I figure, they locked her up and threw away the key, and maybe even scared her a bit - something had to happen, because her Burster powers manifested themselves and she got an insanity. But she had to get out somehow - so maybe her brother found out the truth, and gave her a hint - but I think that would put him and the rest of his family in danger. There are too many holes for me, and some more possible plot twists. How did she escape? How was she locked up? What caused her fear? etc etc etc.

Or is the whole thing all wrong, and should I take a different approach?

Maybe she had an odd reaction to the memory erasure tatoo and her real personallity wasn't halted but lived in a mental dungeon of her own fears that developed into neurosi. It was fighting against these fears that brought out her Burster powers and at the same time negated the tatoo. Now she is feared by all especially her brother who she blames more for putting her there than the elder, and is also hunted by the Atlantien law. While she was under the influence of the Tatoo her new persona married the elder and she occasionally has relapses of the other personality which she knows about but it doesn't know about her.

How's that?

[Zer0 Kay]

there has to be some small difference in the DNA for Timmy to live 90 years while Mack only lives 'till 70.

there has to be a reason why some people are naturally muscular while others lift weights constantly for little game.

there has to be a reason why bob is 6'7" while jerry is 5'3.

there is a difference in DNA. they're all human though.

Yeah and were monkeys.

There's a big difference between Timmy vs Mack 90 and 70 and Humans vs Atlanteans 80 and 500. It would be one thing if a 100 year old Atlantean looked like a 100 year old human but they look like 20-30 something year old humans

you done any reserch into aging? there isn't a very big difference stopping us from living that long as-is. just a few strands of proteans really.

If that is so then there are still as far ahead from us as we are from the apes. They are no longer Homo Sapiens (aka Humans). If it were a simpler mutation we'd already be living 5 times longer than the average Ancient Greek. And I don't think it was Genetic Manipulation, Atlanteans aren't into that.

Man just get off the human bit. So what my point is that their society is not as corrupt and dark as ours, to emphasize my point if it wasn't the TA description would have Any, but mostly... Unlike humans which are Any.

[Svartalf]

What would happen if they found the person innocent?

I don't know apologize at least with the memory erasure the person would still be around.

Maybe if it's a tatoo they could simply remove it.

For the habitual/desire offender if you didn't do it there is nothing to inhibit

To start with, tattoos don't work like that. they are activated by the bearer, nobody else ... and once they are in, they just cannot be removed... I'm not even sure that amputation of the tattooed limbs would reverse the effect of being tattooed. I guess the only case in which they'd use magical tattooing for justice would be turning an evil wizard into a Tman to prevent him from casting spells ever again.

What you suggested looks rather close to a PF diabolist using inflict wards, though.

[Zer0 Kay]

What would happen if they found the person innocent?

I don't know apologize at least with the memory erasure the person would still be around.

Maybe if it's a tatoo they could simply remove it.

For the habitual/desire offender if you didn't do it there is nothing to inhibit

To start with, tattoos don't work like that. they are activated by the bearer, nobody else ... and once they are in, they just cannot be removed... I'm not even sure that amputation of the tattooed limbs would reverse the effect of being tattooed. I guess the only case in which they'd use magical tattooing for justice would be turning an evil wizard into a Tman to prevent him from casting spells ever again.

What you suggested looks rather close to a PF diabolist using inflict wards, though.

diabolist is good.

But you know what if your the GM or the GM lets you what is that now oh yeah you can do anything. Since it's only flavor text for this guys character who cares. If I was the GM and he came up with it I wouldn't be know way the rules clearly state. Well maybe the Chiang-Ku figured a way to remove these particular ones and each type of tatoo requires a different removal process. And maybe the Chiang-Ku made these tatoos so that the are constantly active once placed on. Again it's a game and it's flavor text.

[Nekira Sudacne]

snip

So what my point is that their society is not as corrupt and dark as ours. . .

funny, I don't remember that being said anywhere. . .

[Svartalf]

From my understanding of the "original" archetypal Atlantis, they was an enlightened dictatorship. Punishments tended to "fit the crime," and be otherwise brutal, but not as brutal as the other nations of the Earth at the time.

The typical prison would have been dangerous, violent, and humiliating... The purpose would be punishment, not rehabilitation.

Many crimes would be punishable by death or mutilations, and "minor" crimes would see long incarseration.

However, since the True Atlanteans are remarkably egalitarian, social class of the victim would have little to do with your punishment. Also, modern TAs have NOTHING to do with punishment, or government. If you want to see what they would do, get the book that lists typical punishments for crimes in the U.W.W. As for the TA response, they would likely simply act on behaviours like shun or exile the offender.

I don't fully agree... prison as a punishment is a modern (less than 250 years) development. Before then, prisons were only used to hold people awaiting trial, or to put away "politicals", those that did not deserve any of the punishments meted out by law, but who, for any reasons, the people in powers would not leave free.

By such lights, prison would not be part of the Atlantean legal arsenal. On the other hand, the Greek were very fond of exiling people they thought dangerous for society ... so sending criminals away to other planets ... or dumping them into other dimensions, not necessarily pleasant ones would definitely be an option. mutilations, or marks of infamy (like a magic tattoo that has no power but is impossible to remove and sits pretty on your face) are quite possible ... and of course, the death penalty, is on the books ... some crimes are just irredeemable.

[Svartalf]

The atlantians don't have the ability to create new Tatoos. only the Chaing-Ku can. so Peanl tattos are right out.

they would use normal meathods and punishments. they're human. they wouldn't do anything particually special.

err... Atlanteans don't need to have a dragon around to get a tattoo... or the chiang ku would be much more closely linked to the Atlanteans than is generally known. sure they *did* learn the skill from the chiang ku, but the technique is now widely known and taught among Atlantean alchemists.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The atlantians don't have the ability to create new Tatoos. only the Chaing-Ku can. so Peanl tattos are right out.

they would use normal meathods and punishments. they're human. they wouldn't do anything particually special.

err... Atlanteans don't need to have a dragon around to get a tattoo... or the chiang ku would be much more closely linked to the Atlanteans than is generally known. sure they *did* learn the skill from the chiang ku, but the technique is now widely known and taught among Atlantean alchemists.

they can give the pre-exsiting ones, they cannot create new ones.

[Svartalf]

The atlantians don't have the ability to create new Tatoos. only the Chaing-Ku can. so Peanl tattos are right out.

they would use normal meathods and punishments. they're human. they wouldn't do anything particually special.

err... Atlanteans don't need to have a dragon around to get a tattoo... or the chiang ku would be much more closely linked to the Atlanteans than is generally known. sure they *did* learn the skill from the chiang ku, but the technique is now widely known and taught among Atlantean alchemists.

they can give the pre-exsiting ones, they cannot create new ones.

Sure ... except that Clan Skellian, from manoa... those Monster shaping tattoos they have, they invented them themselves... if they had learned those from the dragons, they would be common knowledge and not a clan secret

[Zer0 Kay]

Sure ... except that Clan Skellian, from manoa... those Monster shaping tattoos they have, they invented them themselves... if they had learned those from the dragons, they would be common knowledge and not a clan secret

I didn't know that interesting, what book is that in?

[Svartalf]

South America One

[Nekira Sudacne]

The atlantians don't have the ability to create new Tatoos. only the Chaing-Ku can. so Peanl tattos are right out.

they would use normal meathods and punishments. they're human. they wouldn't do anything particually special.

err... Atlanteans don't need to have a dragon around to get a tattoo... or the chiang ku would be much more closely linked to the Atlanteans than is generally known. sure they *did* learn the skill from the chiang ku, but the technique is now widely known and taught among Atlantean alchemists.

they can give the pre-exsiting ones, they cannot create new ones.

Sure ... except that Clan Skellian, from manoa... those Monster shaping tattoos they have, they invented them themselves... if they had learned those from the dragons, they would be common knowledge and not a clan secret

not unless it was one Chiang-Ku acting alone who taught them, and then he had no reason to tell anyone else

[Zer0 Kay]

not unless it was one Chiang-Ku acting alone who taught them, and then he had no reason to tell anyone else

Ok enter the child. Well it's the same for the special penal Tatoos used on Alexandria. Only taught to their version of an "executioner". A society trained by a lone Chiang-Ku.

Exit child. Hmm I wonder if they have public tatooings.

[Svartalf]

SA1 p 101
the chiang ku helped the skellian alchemists develop the shape shifting magic

[Stormseed]

I think that in Dinosaur Swamp it mentions that one TA criminal was imprisoned alone on an asteroid somewhere.

[Daniel Stoker]

they can give the pre-exsiting ones, they cannot create new ones.

How do we know that still? Atlantis managed to figure out all new tatoos, the Atlanteans could have managed that too.



Daniel Stoker

[Dr. Doom III]

Exile.


For a people so close knit I doubt they can think of a worse punishment.


Why was it Doom how had to come up with that answer?

[Daniel Stoker]

Exile.


For a people so close knit I doubt they can think of a worse punishment.


Why was it Doom how had to come up with that answer?

You were beat to it. Look at Asteroid man up top



Daniel Stoker

[Svartalf]

Exile.


For a people so close knit I doubt they can think of a worse punishment.


Why was it Doom how had to come up with that answer?

If doom will pay attention to my early posts he will notice that I have proposed banishment quite some time ago.

[Dr. Doom III]

Exile.


For a people so close knit I doubt they can think of a worse punishment.


Why was it Doom how had to come up with that answer?

You were beat to it. Look at Asteroid man up top



Daniel Stoker

That's marooning.

[Dr. Doom III]

If doom will pay attention to my early posts ...

I don't know.
That sounds like a lot of work.