Pulled Punch Bonuses

[Voodoolaw]

This has never really come up in our games before. If you declare a pulled punch, do you ignore the standard bonuses to strike and add only those specifically for pull punch, like an auto-dodge? D20 + pull punch (+ PP bonuses, I'd assume), for instance. We're playing Rifts, but if it is spelled out in any of the other titles, that could be helpful. I understand Rifts is 11+ for success, whereas N&SS had different target numbers. More curious about the specific modifiers used. Checked a few titles and didn't see it specifically answered. Thanks.

[Marcethus]

As far as I can tell you need to make a separate pull punch roll after the strike roll hits. This is how I have ran it for the past 25+ years.

[Grazzik]

Interesting, I've always read it similar to the difference between a ranged shot and a called ranged shot... it is just one strike roll, but you need to indicate what you are doing before you roll and meet the higher threshold. If the roll is 5+ (inclusive of bonuses Voodoolaw indicated) but below the threshold (in this case 11), the punch lands with full damage. Never thought of a second roll...

As to the bonuses used, my house rules (as the books are somewhat unclear) are that only the specific pulled punch bonus is applied, not the general strike bonus. PP attribute bonus does apply. Skill bonuses to strike only apply if the skill expressly refers to pulling a punch.

That said, I don't recall anyone pulling a punch in almost 35 years... Rifts is a rough game...

[Marcethus]

I have had it happen when the player, whose character has SNPS, realizes that they want to take the squishy one alive and not splatter him across the wall. So pull punch comes into play. Tis rare but it does happen.

[Plane]

I've always read it similar to the difference between a ranged shot and a called ranged shot... it is just one strike roll, but you need to indicate what you are doing before you roll and meet the higher threshold. If the roll is 5+ (inclusive of bonuses Voodoolaw indicated) but below the threshold (in this case 11), the punch lands with full damage. Never thought of a second roll...

RUE 339 lists Roll to Strike as step 2, then you got the parry as step 3, and pull punch seems to be worked in as an afterthoght to step 4 (prior to step 5 roll with impact) so I understand the confusion.

RUE 346 mentions "a character must declare a pulled punch" but never talks about WHEN you declare it, but it does seem to reasonably indicate it's a separate die from the strike roll.

N&SS is a little clearer on the order because Pg 132 mentions "A character must declare a pulled punch before the Strike is rolled." which really means it ought to be a sort of "step 1.5" in the combat order.

I figure declaring means that you're making a pulled punch and how much you intend to pull it - but you don't actually have to bother rolling it until after a strike lands and a defense fails - no point wasting time seeing if you succeeded if there's no contact at all.

I think you should definitely have to choose the degree of reduction before actually rolling damage though, surely?

I don't recall anyone pulling a punch in almost 35 years... Rifts is a rough game...

probably a bigger deal in HU or N&SS where there's a lot of innocents around you don't want to develope a bad rep by misting

in Rifts it's much more murder-hobo and those who care about protecting squishies don't tend to be attacking them in the first place or they'll use neutralizing tech or grappling instead of lower-damage strikes

[Marcethus]

I definitely make the player declare it's use before damage is rolled. I generally allow it's use anytime before then. Afterwards they are SOL.

[Voodoolaw]

Okay, good stuff. Thanks all. Think I am going with:

1. Declare pull with attack & desired damage.
2. Normal roll to strike.
3. Normal roll to parry/defend.
4. “Saving throw” to pull the punch (d20 + pull bonuses + PP bonus vs 11+; fail for full damage).

[Marcethus]

Okay, good stuff. Thanks all. Think I am going with:

1. Declare pull with attack & desired damage.
2. Normal roll to strike.
3. Normal roll to parry/defend.
4. “Saving throw” to pull the punch (d20 + pull bonuses + PP bonus vs 11+; fail for full damage).

Sounds good.

[Grazzik]

Okay, good stuff. Thanks all. Think I am going with:

1. Declare pull with attack & desired damage.
2. Normal roll to strike.
3. Normal roll to parry/defend.
4. “Saving throw” to pull the punch (d20 + pull bonuses + PP bonus vs 11+; fail for full damage).

If it works for you, then