Elemental Fusionists Human Only?

[AlanGunhouse]

In RUE, it says Elemental Fusionists are Humans Only. I know there were other classes that said something similar, only to later have it modified. I also know there are other races that generally claim to be able to be "any" class. Is there any place it says specifically that another race can be an Elemental fusionist?

[Curbludgeon]

I think all the post-RUE books are WB16r, WB26+, DB10+, and the Sourcebooks Black Market, Heroes of Humanity, Mercenary Adventures, Shemarrian Nation, Vampire Sourcebook, SB1Revised, Merc Ops and Merc Town. If so the following is every mention. I'd just allow access to any species that is magically capable and not highly tech-oriented.

DB15 mentions Atlantean Fusionists on pg 123. WB30 has Blucie Fusionists on pg 37, Centaur ones on pg 45, Ikteks on 107, Lyvorrk on 133, Mastadonoid on 135, M'Raghiile Tree Men on 137, Septumbran Witch Wolves on 178, and Squilb on 199.

[AlanGunhouse]

Atlanteans are human...more or less. Will have to make time for research on other races I guess. Thanks for the list of places to look. Someone needs to make up a database of Race/OCC cross references some day.

[Curbludgeon]

In addition to the above Rifter 73 pg 49-50 talks about mortal/humanoid children born at a nexus point being able to select any Practitioner of Magic OCC.

[kaid]

In RUE, it says Elemental Fusionists are Humans Only. I know there were other classes that said something similar, only to later have it modified. I also know there are other races that generally claim to be able to be "any" class. Is there any place it says specifically that another race can be an Elemental fusionist?

There are actually a fair number of post RUE books that have Dbees that specifically allow elemental fusionist choice so I kinda chalk this one up to they forgot it was stated to be human only initially and or the ability has appeared into something that looks exactly like an elemental fusionist in other Dbees. Given the amount of things I have seen that specifically state exceptions to this restriction I mostly just ignore it.

[AlanGunhouse]

I have found at least Blusies, Centaurs, Lyvorrk, Septumbrian Witch Hounds, and Squilbs specify they can Elemental Fusionists...and that is just at a fairy quick look in WB #30. Several other races say "any" or "any men of Magic" or even "any practitioner of the mystic arts".

[eliakon]

Yeah the rules are the rules... right up until they aren't
I have seen several races that are explicitly allowed to be Elemental Fusionists. Or that can take Native American OCCs. Or that can take various other 'exclusive' OCCs.
Basically anything that is 'exclusive' or 'restricted' is that way for about six months to a year.
Then its fair game and the freelancers from then on feel that they can use anything that is cool however they want.

[AlanGunhouse]

I remember Techno-wizardry was originally something found on Core Earth only. It seems like there is always someone at Palladium who invents something they want to be unique, and then everyone else wants to use it.

[Axelmania]

There are actually a fair number of post RUE books that have Dbees that specifically allow elemental fusionist choice

There haven't been that many post-RUE books, do you recall the first to do this?

[kaid]

I remember Techno-wizardry was originally something found on Core Earth only. It seems like there is always someone at Palladium who invents something they want to be unique, and then everyone else wants to use it.

And honestly with multiple alternate dimensions being a key thing in the setting anything being unique is probably not actually unique. Maybe elemental fusionists are unique to humans but other races/species have entered into similar bonds with elements to the point you cannot distinguish them. Like things like centaur having native american OCC. It may not be so much that they are those classes but they developed basically identical things separately.

For things like techno wizardy in any dimension where technology becomes a thing it seems pretty natural if magic is also a thing some bright boy is going to try to find a way to join them.

[kaid]

There are actually a fair number of post RUE books that have Dbees that specifically allow elemental fusionist choice

There haven't been that many post-RUE books, do you recall the first to do this?

Dbees of north america has a number of cases of this for elemental fusionist and some that also allow native american specific shaman occ to be taken. There have also been odd previously not legal options in other books like faerie bots have access to at least one of the black market OCC from rifts black market.

[kaid]

I also think the fusionist exception shows up again in the sovietski book but I have to double check on that.

[Axelmania]

I have found at least Blusies, Centaurs, Lyvorrk, Septumbrian Witch Hounds, and Squilbs specify they can Elemental Fusionists...and that is just at a fairy quick look in WB #30.

35 Blusies were Carl Gleba, chock it up to non-Siembieda error
44 Centaurs have the "upper torso of a human" so they can technically count as human for purposes of being a Fusionist It's not the lower half that casts the spell after all.
130 Lyvorrk says "..Temporal Wizard and Elemental Fusionist seem to appeal the most" so while it's IMPLIED they can take it... something being appealing and actually being able to do it are technically different.
177 Suptumbran Witch Wolves were Josh Sinsapaugh, chock it up to non-Siembieda error
198-199 Squilbs were Gleba again, chock it up to non-Kevin error.

Several other races say "any" or "any men of Magic" or even "any practitioner of the mystic arts".

I wouldn't assume that to override racial restrictions, any more than "any psychic OCC" should necessarily mean you could be a Dream Maker, or "any men at arms OCC" could let you be a T-Archer.

There are actually a fair number of post RUE books that have Dbees that specifically allow elemental fusionist choice

There haven't been that many post-RUE books, do you recall the first to do this besides DONA?

I remember Techno-wizardry was originally something found on Core Earth only. It seems like there is always someone at Palladium who invents something they want to be unique, and then everyone else wants to use it.

I thought, rather, it was that techno-wizardy was invented on Rifts Earth?

What SEEMS like a problem is that the United Worlds of Warlock seem to have had it for longer than Rifts Earth, but we can explain that using Time Travel.

I also think the fusionist exception shows up again in the sovietski book but I have to double check on that.

You possibly thinking of the Yaganar (pg 74) and their similar elemental abilities?

[kaid]

I have found at least Blusies, Centaurs, Lyvorrk, Septumbrian Witch Hounds, and Squilbs specify they can Elemental Fusionists...and that is just at a fairy quick look in WB #30.

35 Blusies were Carl Gleba, chock it up to non-Siembieda error
44 Centaurs have the "upper torso of a human" so they can technically count as human for purposes of being a Fusionist It's not the lower half that casts the spell after all.
130 Lyvorrk says "..Temporal Wizard and Elemental Fusionist seem to appeal the most" so while it's IMPLIED they can take it... something being appealing and actually being able to do it are technically different.
177 Suptumbran Witch Wolves were Josh Sinsapaugh, chock it up to non-Siembieda error
198-199 Squilbs were Gleba again, chock it up to non-Kevin error.

Several other races say "any" or "any men of Magic" or even "any practitioner of the mystic arts".

I wouldn't assume that to override racial restrictions, any more than "any psychic OCC" should necessarily mean you could be a Dream Maker, or "any men at arms OCC" could let you be a T-Archer.

There are actually a fair number of post RUE books that have Dbees that specifically allow elemental fusionist choice

There haven't been that many post-RUE books, do you recall the first to do this besides DONA?

I remember Techno-wizardry was originally something found on Core Earth only. It seems like there is always someone at Palladium who invents something they want to be unique, and then everyone else wants to use it.

I thought, rather, it was that techno-wizardy was invented on Rifts Earth?

What SEEMS like a problem is that the United Worlds of Warlock seem to have had it for longer than Rifts Earth, but we can explain that using Time Travel.

I also think the fusionist exception shows up again in the sovietski book but I have to double check on that.

You possibly thinking of the Yaganar (pg 74) and their similar elemental abilities?

Possibly but there are a few DB races in the book and I think one of them was listed as having access to fusionist although that race I believe is noted as being really close to human.

[Shark_Force]

technically, techno-wizardry was never stated to be unique to rifts north america, it is merely that rifts north america is the birthplace of it.

of course, that's also totally nonsensical, so i don't blame anyone for ignoring it. there are too many folks that have been around for far too long that have massively integrated use of techno-wizardry into their society for that claim to be plausible. it is much more plausible if we accept that rifts earth did indeed develop techno-wizardry on their own, but were far from the first to do so.

[Axelmania]

It's not nonsense if you blame time travel. It's not just for the Minion War. The ones seeding the Three Galaxies probably came from Rifts Earth.

[kaid]

Also some of the dbees listed as having native american OCC options list it as equivalent so it is not exactly that OCC but it functionally is identical. I would just hand wave the elemental fusionists the same way not exactly an elemental fusionist but functionally works in the same fashion.

Because a mastadonoid is about as non human as you get and most of its limited options for OCC are "human only" choices of the various inuit/native american/elemental fusionist types.

[Mlp7029]

Make the player come up with a back story that how the characters became a fusionist. If you like the background thenallow it.

[AlanGunhouse]

Also some of the dbees listed as having native american OCC options list it as equivalent so it is not exactly that OCC but it functionally is identical. I would just hand wave the elemental fusionists the same way not exactly an elemental fusionist but functionally works in the same fashion.

Because a mastadonoid is about as non human as you get and most of its limited options for OCC are "human only" choices of the various inuit/native american/elemental fusionist types.

I do not recall seeing the Fusionist listed as an option for the Mastadonoid...I could have overlooked it though.

[kaid]

Also some of the dbees listed as having native american OCC options list it as equivalent so it is not exactly that OCC but it functionally is identical. I would just hand wave the elemental fusionists the same way not exactly an elemental fusionist but functionally works in the same fashion.

Because a mastadonoid is about as non human as you get and most of its limited options for OCC are "human only" choices of the various inuit/native american/elemental fusionist types.

I do not recall seeing the Fusionist listed as an option for the Mastadonoid...I could have overlooked it though.

In dbees of north america I believe it is the first OCC that is listed that they can take.

[AlanGunhouse]

Hmm, I guess I missed it because it was split between two lines the way it was.

[Axelmania]

a mastadonoid is about as non human as you get and most of its limited options for OCC are "human only" choices of the various inuit/native american/elemental fusionist types.

Pg 134 eh?

I can't see it explicitly saying anywhere that Mastadonoids aren't at least PART human...

Cornelius and Madame, what have you been up to?

*eyes flit to right side of 135*

Mind Bleeders are not "D-Bees" but human mutants

What a glorious book

[eliakon]

technically, techno-wizardry was never stated to be unique to rifts north america, it is merely that rifts north america is the birthplace of it.

of course, that's also totally nonsensical, so i don't blame anyone for ignoring it. there are too many folks that have been around for far too long that have massively integrated use of techno-wizardry into their society for that claim to be plausible. it is much more plausible if we accept that rifts earth did indeed develop techno-wizardry on their own, but were far from the first to do so.

Your going about that backwards.
TW was a brand new unique invention to North America as per RMB.
THEN the other books came along and retroactively added all those other folks that had it for 'too long' as you put it... which is exactly the point that was being made about how exclusive stuff doesn't stay exclusive and is instead made public domain and part of the general lore.

Thus it starts as a new exclusive thing. Then it becomes a limited thing. Then its just a 'everyone and their dogboy' thing.
We saw this with TW. With Rune Magic. With Biomancy. With Elemental Fusionists. With Mystic Kuznya. With Totems. With <fill in the blank>

[AlanGunhouse]

Yep, someone comes up with something new and says "this is unique", then someone else comes along and says, "Wow, I want that, let me add it..."

[Shark_Force]

technically, techno-wizardry was never stated to be unique to rifts north america, it is merely that rifts north america is the birthplace of it.

of course, that's also totally nonsensical, so i don't blame anyone for ignoring it. there are too many folks that have been around for far too long that have massively integrated use of techno-wizardry into their society for that claim to be plausible. it is much more plausible if we accept that rifts earth did indeed develop techno-wizardry on their own, but were far from the first to do so.

Your going about that backwards.
TW was a brand new unique invention to North America as per RMB.
THEN the other books came along and retroactively added all those other folks that had it for 'too long' as you put it... which is exactly the point that was being made about how exclusive stuff doesn't stay exclusive and is instead made public domain and part of the general lore.

Thus it starts as a new exclusive thing. Then it becomes a limited thing. Then its just a 'everyone and their dogboy' thing.
We saw this with TW. With Rune Magic. With Biomancy. With Elemental Fusionists. With Mystic Kuznya. With Totems. With <fill in the blank>

still says TW is the birthplace of TW in RUE. i'm pretty sure it's mentioned in multiple places, in fact, but i'm kinda tired and don't want to look now that i've found one example. page 128, in the techno-wizard OCC information. near the bottom of the page, look at the "racial requirement" section.

it isn't "techno-wizardry was something unique to north america in the RMB era, which has since changed". techno-wizardry is still (supposedly) something that was originally developed on rifts earth. as i said earlier, this is quite a silly assertion; techno-wizardry is found all across the megaverse, and shows signs of having been used for way longer than it has been around on rifts earth. the only way that it makes any sense at all is to presume that while techno-wizardry has been around for much longer, it was developed by rather than taught to the people of rifts earth in particular, in much the same way that many other societies have most likely done across the megaverse at various times.

[Daniel Stoker]

So.... aren't you agreeing with him? The books say it originates from Rifts Earth, but then later books go back and add it to all kinds of other groups despite the original information taking something that was exclusive to one area/group and then giving it to all kinds of people?


Daniel Stoker

[dreicunan]

Our solution to the apparent contradiction: Technowizardry originated on Rifts Earth, but spread to the rest of the megaverse through transdimensional timey-wimey shenanigans, resulting in places where it seems that technowizardry existed long before its discovery on Rifts Earth.

[Shark_Force]

So.... aren't you agreeing with him? The books say it originates from Rifts Earth, but then later books go back and add it to all kinds of other groups despite the original information taking something that was exclusive to one area/group and then giving it to all kinds of people?


Daniel Stoker

no. the books don't say "it originates from Rifts Earth, but then later books go back and add it to all kinds of other groups despite the original information taking something that was exclusive to one area/group and then giving it to all kinds of people".

the book just says that north america is where techno-wizardry was invented. that is not the same thing at all. it does not say so much as a single word about the fact that techno-wizardry is all over the megaverse and has signs of having been all over the megaverse since time immemorial. canon is that techno-wizardry originated in north america, and nowhere else. not just in old books, as was claimed; that assertion has continued to be the official story all the way through the entire product line.

that is, as i've said multiple times now, absurd. techno-wizardry is all over the place. the only reasonable way to make sense of that (and no, time travel is not a reasonable explanation) is to either assume that it is completely wrong, or that techno-wizardry has been invented many times by many different groups, that the principles behind it are in fact straightforward enough once you get the idea to try and do it that nobody even considers it to be secret knowledge. but that is not even remotely close to what the books say on the matter, which is merely that rifts north america is THE birthplace of techno-wizardry.

[Daniel Stoker]

I guess I’m missing something, if the book tells us it was invented in North America then how can it be all over the megaverse well before it was even invented in North America? I mean clearly the book is ‘wrong’ because as other books have shown it’s not just there in North America and a new process, but had to be around for ages based on the groups out there who also use it. But at the same time this isn’t Erin Tarn telling us this, this is the Game Book which sets up the megaverse saying that. So we're back to the books saying one thing, but then nope, other books then take that exclusive thing giving it to new groups so they have it (and had it before it was apparently invented) as per the old books.


Daniel Stoker

[Axelmania]

Dreicunan had it right with the timey-wimey explanation I think.

[Daniel Stoker]

Only if he said Wibbly Wobbly first, sadly he did not and at this time our judges tell us we cannot accept his answer.


Daniel Stoker

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I remember Techno-wizardry was originally something found on Core Earth only. It seems like there is always someone at Palladium who invents something they want to be unique, and then everyone else wants to use it.

Kevin did that to himself. Didnt even make it past WB2. The Splugorth have had Techno Wizardry for millenia.

[Daniel Stoker]

They did? I don't have my books with me but I remember rune weapons and tattoo magic and the parasites and the like, but I'm blanking on them having TW too.


Daniel Stoker

[The Beast]

They did? I don't have my books with me but I remember rune weapons and tattoo magic and the parasites and the like, but I'm blanking on them having TW too.


Daniel Stoker

Maybe he's confusing it with bio-wizardry?

[ShadowLogan]

They did? I don't have my books with me but I remember rune weapons and tattoo magic and the parasites and the like, but I'm blanking on them having TW too.


Daniel Stoker

Maybe he's confusing it with bio-wizardry?

No.
True Atlanteans can select TW OCC (pg16)
Highlords can select TW OCC (pg44)

Some TW items in later books (looking a Iron Juggernauts as example) actually boarder on bio-wizardry/Rune magic per text IIRC, so TW might be a "broad" category to include any magical "technology"?

Actually it might go back to WB1o (Vernulians are said to have a version of TW orientated toward Psi from their own world buried in their RCC rightup)

[Daniel Stoker]

See I assumed that was a new thing for both those classes but I don't remember iron Juggernauts at all in Atlantis.


Daniel Stoker

[Shark_Force]

atlantis also has enough techno-wizards to outfit billions of kydians with techno-wizardry devices more advanced than anything found in north america at the time, and has had that since world book 2.

and also, unlike all the other magical "technologies" that the splugorth consider proprietary, the splugorth don't care in the slightest if anyone else has techno-wizardry. when someone else gets close to bio-wizardry, the splugorth take notice. if they considered techno-wizardry to even be something that *could* be kept secret and become an exclusive thing that only the splugorth could sell, they wouldn't hesitate to capture and enslave all the early techno-wizards and hunt down anyone else who had discovered the secrets... unless they weren't secrets at all, because basically any society that has both advanced technology and magic is going to inevitably discover how to combine the two. due to the principles of combining the two not being all that complicated.

[dreicunan]

that is, as i've said multiple times now, absurd. techno-wizardry is all over the place. the only reasonable way to make sense of that (and no, time travel is not a reasonable explanation)

Time travel, especially interdimensionally, is an entirely reasonable explanation which results in all the canon statements making sense. We know that it can happen due to dimensional vortices and dimensional maelstroms (whose off-course table in DB7 includes option for Rifts Earth, Chaos Earth, and Chaos Earth BEFORE the cataclysm - those are all the same place, of course, just at different times).

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

that is, as i've said multiple times now, absurd. techno-wizardry is all over the place. the only reasonable way to make sense of that (and no, time travel is not a reasonable explanation)

Time travel, especially interdimensionally, is an entirely reasonable explanation which results in all the canon statements making sense. We know that it can happen due to dimensional vortices and dimensional maelstroms (whose off-course table in DB7 includes option for Rifts Earth, Chaos Earth, and Chaos Earth BEFORE the cataclysm - those are all the same place, of course, just at different times).

Its highly unlikely, though. The UWW has practiced Techno-Wizardry for several thousand years, and several of the races developed TW on their own, independently of one another.

The best way to reconcile what RMB says vs everyone and their brother (including Wormwood, which is time-parallel with Rifts Earth and has been directly linked with Earth in afew places for thousands of years) having TW is to just assume the mention in RMB is that, post-Cataclysm, mages of Earth independently developed Techno-Wizardry, and Rifts-Earth TW has its own flavor and style that takes that into account (that Aviator/Mad-science look and feel), and that is why the common belief amongst the natives of Rifts Earth was that they invented it. After all, 3G’s Techno-Wizardry looks almost indistinguishable from regular high technology, with none of the weird science look of Earth TW, and a lot of people would assume theyre different.

Its a whole easier to reconcile that, than try to believe that Techno-Wizardry was created post-Cataclysm on Rifts Earth, and then somehow sent back in time up to tens of thousands of years to multiple different dimensions simultaneously (at different times in each dimension), and somehow was the impetus for societies that never met one another to all adopt Techno-Wizardry.

Im firmly with the “any society that has advanced technology and advanced magic will eventually develop Technowizardry” crowd here.

After all, there are dozens and dozens of other things in the setting that are provably wrong (Book X makes Statement of Fact Y, which is then disproven in Books A, B, C, and E - and it is just as often that Books A, B, C and E were published BEFORE book X, as they were after.).

You just have to do your best to reconcile the differences with the least-difficult reasoning you can.

Here, thats the “Earth independently developed TW, but any society with sufficiently advanced magic and tech will eventually develop TW” path, IMO.

[Axelmania]

DB7 includes option for Rifts Earth, Chaos Earth, and Chaos Earth BEFORE the cataclysm - those are all the same place, of course, just at different times

Pg 25 mentions Chaos Earth in general, pg 26 has the "before" specifically. Hadn't noticed. Calling it "Chaos" earth for PRE-cataclysm seems off...

Perhaps the chaos is that the Minion War somehow results in the merging of "Armageddon Unlimited" with Beyond the Supernatural and TMNT and that's why there's BTS/HU/TMNT elements in Rifts?

The 2 alternate PF worlds and 2 alternate Rifts Earths sound pretty neat too. A high-CS / high-mechanoids setting might balance each other out if you connected them somehow and let them fight.

3% chance of going to Eyelor on random travel seems pretty excessive for such a top-secret dimension though... that's even higher than the 2% chance of visiting Wormwood.

I think I'd prefer a net 1% chance of "visit an infamous living planet" and then roll an 1d6 to see if you end up on Wormwood (1-2), Eyelor (3-4) or Cormal (5-6).

The UWW has practiced Techno-Wizardry for several thousand years,

Time travel can go back a long ways.

several of the races developed TW on their own, independently of one another.

Specific pages/statements please, I want to know how flexible this is worded.

The best way to reconcile what RMB says vs everyone and their brother (including Wormwood, which is time-parallel with Rifts Earth and has been directly linked with Earth in afew places for thousands of years) having TW

Thousands of Earth years or wormwood years? Keep in mind the 1:3 time ratio. Just how many years is TW described as having existed on WW? How do we know it's not a recent arrival?

Its a whole easier to reconcile that, than try to believe that Techno-Wizardry was created post-Cataclysm on Rifts Earth, and then somehow sent back in time up to tens of thousands of years to multiple different dimensions simultaneously (at different times in each dimension), and somehow was the impetus for societies that never met one another to all adopt Techno-Wizardry.

Why is that hard to reconcile? There's no need for it to be simultaneously. The TW who founds the TW in the UWW might well not end up being sent back there until PA190

This is easy to imagine since TW love flying wing boards and probably get sucked through random rifts on lines more often than most, next to Shifters who probably enter them voluntarily. Unlike a Shifter however they can't easily return home so it would make sense for them to set down some roots.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I should really stop reading Axel's posts...

Warning: You should lose your condescending responses.

Anyway, ill sum up my answers with:

Occam's Razor, son. Occam's Razor.

[Shark_Force]

it becomes even more plausible that any group with advanced tech and magic will develop techno-wizardry when you consider that, for example, the xiticix have also developed something that... well, if it isn't techno-wizardry, it functions so similarly it's hard to tell apart. same with a group of monsters in australia, iirc.

[AlanGunhouse]

There are also these gator men in Australia if I recall, and the Faerie Bots, and the Junk Crabs, all of which have their own variations of Techno-Wizardry.

[ShadowLogan]

See I assumed that was a new thing for both those classes but I don't remember iron Juggernauts at all in Atlantis.

I think you misunderstood my post. LATER books (post WB2) have examples of TW items that are described as bordering on "bio-wizardry" (or some other magic type), Iron Juggernauts are an example from a later book of a TW item that boarders on "Bio-wizardry".

[Daniel Stoker]

Gotcha, sorry about that, that makes a lot more sense.


Daniel Stoker

[dreicunan]

@Colonel_Tetsuya: RUE still has the statement about it being a new mystic art that originates in North America and was developed by humans on p. 128 (under "Racial Requirements"). For that to be absolutely true as written across the Megaverse, it requires temporodimensional shenanigans. Since that is a plausible explanation (if perhaps seeming unlikely), I've always been fine with it. That said, if people prefer to read it as first developed in the Rifts Earth dimension as a way to reconcile the statement with apparent contradictions, it isn't as though I have a problem with that.

[Axelmania]

Occam's Razor, son. Occam's Razor.

Daddy, I think appealing to the simplest explanation only applies if that simple explanation isn't disproven, and if we are indeed told somewhere (I've actually forgotten where at this point) that TW was invented in North America by humans in Lazlo or something along those lines, then we pretty much have to follow that wherever it leads.

Of course, a lot of this depends on how specific the text is, like if it actually rules out the possibility of something originating independently multiple times.

Like if it said somewhere "Elves invented Necromancy" (it doesn't) would that necessarily mean "and then nobody else ever invented it again and all necromancers in the megaverse are descended from elf teachers" or simply that they came up with it on their own, but then someone else might have also done so before/after they did, but the elves didn't rely on anyone else to teach it to them.

@Colonel_Tetsuya: RUE still has the statement about it being a new mystic art that originates in North America and was developed by humans on p. 128 (under "Racial Requirements"). For that to be absolutely true as written across the Megaverse, it requires temporodimensional shenanigans. Since that is a plausible explanation (if perhaps seeming unlikely), I've always been fine with it. That said, if people prefer to read it as first developed in the Rifts Earth dimension as a way to reconcile the statement with apparent contradictions, it isn't as though I have a problem with that.

I suppose it depends on how one interprets "new" however. Like does it necessarily mean "first ever" or "new in respect to this specific location and era".

Like for example if there is a "new dance craze" in a certain country, but it is adopted from decades/centuries-old dance in some other country, it isn't new in respect to the world but to that nation, so perhaps it could e read either way?

I personally like the "humans did it" explanation though because it fits well with the Cataclysm-seeds-humans idea implied by games like Skraypers (how they even get to Seeron?) and Palladium Fantasy (how they even get to jungle?) and Megaversal Builder. I think the vanguard TWs would like it too

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

@Colonel_Tetsuya: RUE still has the statement about it being a new mystic art that originates in North America and was developed by humans on p. 128 (under "Racial Requirements"). For that to be absolutely true as written across the Megaverse, it requires temporodimensional shenanigans.

Its a matter of what is simpler and more lkely.

Its more likely that RUE is wrong, as there are dozens of other statements in RUE that are unequivocally wrong (North America a wilderness that is hard to travel around and unexplored - except you can literally charter commercial flights, etc).

The simplest solution (Occams Razor) is that it develops anywhere there is sufficiently advanced tech and magic.

[Daniel Stoker]

Its more likely that RUE is wrong, as there are dozens of other statements in RUE that are unequivocally wrong (North America a wilderness that is hard to travel around and unexplored - except you can literally charter commercial flights, etc).

This is Palladium, isn't the simplest answer likely the one where Kevin wanted it that way and wrote it that way in the book, then they (Him, other writers, whomever) decided to give them to other groups anyway because it’d be cool or whatever for those groups to have them?


Daniel Stoker

[Shark_Force]

Its more likely that RUE is wrong, as there are dozens of other statements in RUE that are unequivocally wrong (North America a wilderness that is hard to travel around and unexplored - except you can literally charter commercial flights, etc).

This is Palladium, isn't the simplest answer likely the one where Kevin wanted it that way and wrote it that way in the book, then they (Him, other writers, whomever) decided to give them to other groups anyway because it’d be cool or whatever for those groups to have them?


Daniel Stoker

do you have any evidence whatsoever that kevin "wanted" techno-wizardry to have been brought back in time to dozens of different groups across the megaverse and in different time periods?

because if you don't, then it is much more reasonable to default to "lots of people have figured out this same concept" than "extremely complicated stable time loop that nobody knows about or discusses".

i mean, if this was Dr Who, where time travel is a central theme of the whole thing... sure. time travel would be the reasonable explanation. since this is not a game where time travel is a central theme, that isn't a reasonable explanation.