Any details on the Near and Middle East?

[Ixal]

Is there any official information about the state ot the Near and Middle East? The Area of Syria and Israel and maybe even going up to Anatolia or even Greece. And then of course Arabia, Irak and Iran. And while I am at it, anything about India?

[ShadowLogan]

I don't think so. The most you might see is off hand references.

Greece, Turkey IIRC get mentioned in Conversion Book 1, and Greece might get further mentions in Europe. India might get references in Pantheons, and maybe off hand references elsewhere.

The middle east proper (Syria, Israel, Iran, Iraq, Arabia) aren't covered and likely won't be covered.

[SycophantNagaraja]

I don't think so. The most you might see is off hand references.

Greece, Turkey IIRC get mentioned in Conversion Book 1, and Greece might get further mentions in Europe. India might get references in Pantheons, and maybe off hand references elsewhere.

The middle east proper (Syria, Israel, Iran, Iraq, Arabia) aren't covered and likely won't be covered.

I think Logan covers about all you'll find. You -may- be able to find some off hand remarks about it in the Africa world book too. Since Egypt sits so close and they do have a nice write up there may be some mentions about what is nearby.

[Library Ogre]

I have the Middle East being watched over by a powerful, paranoid, alien intelligence with a fetish for humans and a dislike of magic it doesn't control.

[DhAkael]

Due to "Political correctness" there is NO official canon material on the Mid-east at all. Maybe a snippet in the RIfts:Africa that encompasses about a paragraph.
*shrug*
There was a member of the Palladiumbooks fan-community who had an entire manuscript that had been submitted YEARS ago (over 20 years) but he got shot-down and humiliated by the editorial dept. at the time.
I read bits of it (the manuscript) before it got locked down and swept under PBooks carpet; it was respectful of the mid-east, DESPITE the whole 'Saddam thang' colouring the USA's perceptions and actually quite good.

Sadly I don't think there's even a netbook version due to high-priced lawyers.

[SycophantNagaraja]

wow I totally forgot about that political thing because it's been years. But now that you mention it I remember KS mentioning that in some foreword somewhere. I can't recall exactly

[Hotrod]

There are a couple bits and pieces here and there. There are some mind bleeders in the Middle East, specifically mentioned as inhabiting Saudi Arabia. There are also some small kingdoms and groups around the Middle East that are increasingly influenced or controlled by the Phoenix Empire (Africa, p131, bottom)

On the non-canon side, I wrote up a story on these boards about five years back that focused on the Middle East. I sidestepped all the political hot-potatoes by having the entire region get nuked by really messy nukes around the outset of the Coming of the Rifts, turning it into a land of glass lakes. That glass serves as a raw material to make useful psionics-boosting tools for the survivors and their descendants.

It's funny; I got into making maps because of that story, which I submitted to Palladium as a novel manuscript. The story never went anywhere, but I'm still making maps. Maybe someday I'll get Palladium to formally reject my manuscript so I can post it online for public download.

[The Beast]

Due to "Political correctness" there is NO official canon material on the Mid-east at all. Maybe a snippet in the RIfts:Africa that encompasses about a paragraph.
*shrug*
There was a member of the Palladiumbooks fan-community who had an entire manuscript that had been submitted YEARS ago (over 20 years) but he got shot-down and humiliated by the editorial dept. at the time.
I read bits of it (the manuscript) before it got locked down and swept under PBooks carpet; it was respectful of the mid-east, DESPITE the whole 'Saddam thang' colouring the USA's perceptions and actually quite good.

Sadly I don't think there's even a netbook version due to high-priced lawyers.

Was that the one by El Magico?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Due to "Political correctness" there is NO official canon material on the Mid-east at all. Maybe a snippet in the RIfts:Africa that encompasses about a paragraph.
*shrug*
…snip

I've always thought of the Middle-East being left out as being a rational conclusion to avoid being caught in-between the dodecahedron of sides when talking about that region.

Thou, the closest they have come to talking about the holy lands is in the Africa book. Even if it is just in the maps on pages 110 & 132.

[Ixal]

A strange decision imo.
Other RPGs had no problems with talking about that area (Shadowrun for example)

[The Beast]

A strange decision imo.
Other RPGs had no problems with talking about that area (Shadowrun for example)

Even stranger when you remember Palladium had no problem covering the Hindu and Norse religions.

[Dunia]

Unfortunately not.

Despite the fact that many other RPGs cover that area of the world in various settings, PB have never dared to publish any books. And although I never heard of any threats against RPG companies who do publish such area books, PB and their fans seem to think that that is their main concern.

[Freemage]

A strange decision imo.
Other RPGs had no problems with talking about that area (Shadowrun for example)

Even stranger when you remember Palladium had no problem covering the Hindu and Norse religions.

The Norse faith has a fairly fringe population in the real world, as a side-note to neo-paganism, which is itself fairly minority view. The usual, "This is a game, not an attempt to accurately portray the religion" disclaimer usually satisfies the handful of practitioners. (It's worth noting, of course, that neo-paganism itself is generally very much 'build your own doctrine', and thus neo-pagans aren't likely to actually be offended by any portrayal of their beliefs that doesn't involve eating babies at black mass.)

The Hindu faith is quite a different matter in terms of numbers, being one of the big World Religions, but it's fair to remember that we're talking about a hobby that mostly appeals to middle-class Westerners; the population of Hindu gamers is small enough that so long as they don't go outright offensive, it's not hard to get props for inclusion and then everyone just goes on.

The Middle East is a different bag, by far. It's the primary locus for active religious-adjacent strife in this world, and it's a morass of conflicting claims, high tensions and oft-mutual atrocities--and it's part of the world that everyone and their brother has an opinion on (and since they disagree with their brother, there's always a big fight at Thanksgiving dinner).

At this time, and really, for the last 4 decades, there's simply no way to portray the Middle East without offending some portion of the reader base in a way that isn't likely to happen even with a clumsy presentation of the Hindu or Shinto faiths.

My advice to GMs wanting to do the Middle East? Declare that the entire region, from the Red Sea all the way through Afghanistan, was completely leveled in the Cataclysm--no buildings above ground, no survivors. The region has no permanent inhabitants at all, but there's ruins aplenty, ripe for artifact-hunting.

[Ixal]

At this time, and really, for the last 4 decades, there's simply no way to portray the Middle East without offending some portion of the reader base in a way that isn't likely to happen even with a clumsy presentation of the Hindu or Shinto faiths.

My advice to GMs wanting to do the Middle East? Declare that the entire region, from the Red Sea all the way through Afghanistan, was completely leveled in the Cataclysm--no buildings above ground, no survivors. The region has no permanent inhabitants at all, but there's ruins aplenty, ripe for artifact-hunting.

We are talking about the Middle East hundereds of years in the future after a major global catastrophy that changed the world completely. Nothing Rifts could would have any relation to the current Middle East.

And I have not heard about any big complaints when Shadowrun first wrote about a global Jihad which they lost, then blew up Tehran after a dragon didn't like them being against Metahumans and the rest of the area becoming a playball for European corporations, a terrorist training camp for yet another dragon and have a large group of people basically follow the Shadowrun version of a Vampire Intelligence.

Compared to that what's the worst thing Rifts can do? Have some warring Sultanates, the inevitable monster country, maybe an organisation resembling the original assassins and drop some references to the Arabian mythology?

[Dunia]

What do the Following Games have in Common?

* Ars Magica
* Rolemaster
* Hero system
* Shadowrun
* Runequest
* Blue Planet
* Battletech
* Vampire the Masquerade
* Werewolf the Apocalypse
* Vampire, (Africa setting)
* GURPS

Just to name a few.

Well they all depicted Islam and Middle East and I have not heard that anyone of their offices were bombed or their players shot by angry ismaist Terrorists.

[SycophantNagaraja]

What do the Following Games have in Common?

* Ars Magica
* Rolemaster
* Hero system
* Shadowrun
* Runequest
* Blue Planet
* Battletech
* Vampire the Masquerade *********
* Werewolf the Apocalypse
* Vampire, (Africa setting)
* GURPS

Just to name a few.

Well they all depicted Islam and Middle East and I have not heard that anyone of their offices were bombed or their players shot by angry ismaist Terrorists.

Except for the Gypsies. They went full "we are offended" and it caused some changes in the genre of the system. But your point is very valid.

[drewkitty ~..~]

For whatever reasons, their exclusion seams to be firm.

Counterpoint, the exclusion was made years ago and things have only gotten worse since then. Do you want to be the one that gets shot just because no one has been shot 'Yet'?
*shrugs*
It is not my wish that anyone gets hurt just because some islamist (or other) AH gets in their head to hurt people because of a game.

[Freemage]

To be clear, I'm not talking about someone getting shot, nor am I saying it would specifically be Muslims who got pissed off.

Rather, I'm talking about a game book potentially pissing off a company's fanbase, and opting to stay clear of something that might hurt sales.

Ironically, part of the problem is that Rifts IS set in the future--specifically, a post- (or more precisely a post-post-)apocalyptic one. The key issue is that the three World Religions that started in that part of the world, and are still battling it out there, all have one element in common: They predict the future, in poetic but fairly clear terms. By most conservative readings of their books, there shouldn't BE a post-post-Apocalypse; the Apocalypse is it, with some possible wailing and gnashing of teeth afterwards while the heathens and heretics either get punished or get saved, depending on your take on the writings in question. Not in the cards? Illinois Nazis and Appalachian Demon-cities. The issue of 'What happened to Jerusalem' becomes an issue, because whatever you write, someone is going to come along and say, "No, that's not what would happen, it should be THIS, and the martyrs of my faith died to make sure we'd know that, so how dare you offend their sacrifice?"

Now, that said, it's perfectly possible that Palladium is being overly cautious on this front. The Shadowrun counter-example is a decent one, for instance. But it's clear that KS isn't holding back out of no reason whatsoever.

[Wise_Owl]

As far as 'official' stuff, no there is virtually nothing.

The stated reason is nonsense though. Palladium could easily publish a 'Rifts Arabia' in which the windswept deserts of the Arabian Penisula are occupied by Genies, Roaming Cyber-Bedoine and Magical Cities re-appeared after Millenia or whatever without a peep. Persia and Arabia have an amazing Mythic history that Palladium has already borrowed from, through in a bunch of Techno-stuff and some alien or whatever with no connection to any historical/mythological content and bobs your uncle, Kitchen-Sink Gonzo Middle East.

I mean Palladium manages to side-step Christianity for the most-part in RIFTS and the US is chock full of people who are near fanatical regarding that. Other fiction authors have done work of a similar bent.

I think there was just a bit of weird orientalism/moral cowardice years ago? and now it's just sort of an established position. PLus Rifts kind of went off the 'Travelogue' around the world' thing a while ago.

On a side note; the portrayal of the Hindu gods in Pantheons 2 would have to work hard to be more insulting. It portrays one of the principal deities are a drug addict... It would be like having a book with Cyber-Jesus where the historical Jesus turns out to have been a time-travelling Con-Man or something.

[Axelmania]

Easiest take: somehow the appearance of Atlantis caused an equal sized chunk of that area to vanish. Africa and Asia are no longer physically connected.

Which also helps to explain why China and Phoenix empire do not interact as much as you would expect.

Any other explanation of what happened to these nations will raise questions like "why would Jehovah/Allah not protect people?" so simply a mysterious vanishing allows people to plug in whatever explanation they find acceptable.

The main hole in this approach is the worldwide raised sea levels from Atlantis. I say chalk that up to portals connecting to the elemental plane of water like that one river in South America. The world would flood if not for overflow rifts at a certain height.

[J_cobbers]

I've read Hotrod's manuscript and really enjoyed the story and his take on the region, basically made something entirely new and left the Abramanic religions out of it. I guess the best you can do is figure it out for yourself. Likely the Phoenix Empire in Egypt would have a great deal of influence as it is right in the region.

[taalismn]

I always regarded it as akin to the Yucatan Peninsula; wrapped up in wild magical dust storms and severe dimensional warping that makes insanely difficult for anybody, even god-entities, to get through. Most people find it simply easier to avoid the area(i.e. Massive Somebody Else's Problem Field lies around the region).

[Suicycho]

El Magico/Darklord DC has written an AWESOME Middle East netbook. He emailed me a copy several years ago. He doesn't post on here anymore but you could probably message him or contact him through Facebook.