APS Electricity #5 Generate Electricty

[SittingBull]

Is it just me or does it seem a bit 'costly' for the activation of this power to be 4 actions? I mean if the duration were a bit longer then sure. Now I post this in case I have missed something about this.

[Glistam]

Doesn't it last for two melees? It's not an ability I could see being used often, but it seems to have situational usefulness.

[eliakon]

It costs four of your APM, because it attacks four times per round....
And as for its value it is one of a very small number of abilities that can be used to protect another person.

So for your 4APM you get to put up a field on yourself or another person that will, four times per round make an area affect attack. OR you can make an automatic defense field that will automatically give a retaliatory shock to every physical hit you receive for those two rounds.

Pretty impressive stuff.

The implications of this unique ability are simply staggering.

[SittingBull]

But 4 actions per melee for the defense field seems overly costly, for the offensive version I understand it.

[SittingBull]

Doesn't it last for two melees? It's not an ability I could see being used often, but it seems to have situational usefulness.

If your APS Electricity, the FIRST thing that comes to mind is people hitting me should be getting shocked. Why be APS Electricity people hitting you aren't getting shocked?

[eliakon]

Doesn't it last for two melees? It's not an ability I could see being used often, but it seems to have situational usefulness.

If your APS Electricity, the FIRST thing that comes to mind is people hitting me should be getting shocked. Why be APS Electricity people hitting you aren't getting shocked?

Because they chose to not grant automatic damage aura's to people as a free power.
APS Fire doesn't grant damage, APS Electricity doesn't grant damage, etc....
Mainly because from a game stand point it is a very potent ability. Which is why the fact that APS:E can do it is so impressive.

[SittingBull]

APS Fire does grant automatic damage.

#7 second paragraph.
The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

[eliakon]

APS Fire does grant automatic damage.

#7 second paragraph.
The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Which is still not the same. That applies only to attacks by normal human beings, who do not have any form of protection (so basically barehanded)
RAW it does nothing to any one or anything that is not an unprotected normal human being (I am not debating the logic of this, or its cinematics, just What Is)
APS:E reacts to everything and anything that physically touches the character. AND its just a secondary added option to a really potent attack power....

[SittingBull]

Are you implying that aps fire aura damage wouldn't hurt other supers?

[SittingBull]

APS Fire does grant automatic damage.

#7 second paragraph.
The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Which is still not the same. That applies only to attacks by normal human beings, who do not have any form of protection (so basically barehanded)
RAW it does nothing to any one or anything that is not an unprotected normal human being (I am not debating the logic of this, or its cinematics, just What Is)
APS:E reacts to everything and anything that physically touches the character. AND its just a secondary added option to a really potent attack power....

Potent attack power?

[eliakon]

Are you implying that aps fire aura damage wouldn't hurt other supers?

As written? No it only damages unprotected normal humans.
My house rule? I lower the damage down to 1d6 and have it damage everything that touches the person. But that is a house rule, not the rules as written.

APS Fire does grant automatic damage.

#7 second paragraph.
The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Which is still not the same. That applies only to attacks by normal human beings, who do not have any form of protection (so basically barehanded)
RAW it does nothing to any one or anything that is not an unprotected normal human being (I am not debating the logic of this, or its cinematics, just What Is)
APS:E reacts to everything and anything that physically touches the character. AND its just a secondary added option to a really potent attack power....

Potent attack power?

Yes. There are not a lot of AoE attack powers in the game. And the number of ones that have BOTH a duration component, a range component, and can be targeted onto another? Round about zero......
So yes an utterly unique attack that does pretty decent damage, to an area, over time, at range? That sounds like "potent" to me.

[Nightmask]

APS Fire does grant automatic damage.

#7 second paragraph.
The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Which is still not the same. That applies only to attacks by normal human beings, who do not have any form of protection (so basically barehanded)
RAW it does nothing to any one or anything that is not an unprotected normal human being (I am not debating the logic of this, or its cinematics, just What Is)
APS:E reacts to everything and anything that physically touches the character. AND its just a secondary added option to a really potent attack power....

I seriously doubt that they meant for anyone to think that you could be an unprotected super who could be burned by a match or lighter but somehow the APS: Fire guy's fiery body would do them no harm because 'they aren't normal humans'.

[eliakon]

APS Fire does grant automatic damage.

#7 second paragraph.
The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Which is still not the same. That applies only to attacks by normal human beings, who do not have any form of protection (so basically barehanded)
RAW it does nothing to any one or anything that is not an unprotected normal human being (I am not debating the logic of this, or its cinematics, just What Is)
APS:E reacts to everything and anything that physically touches the character. AND its just a secondary added option to a really potent attack power....

I seriously doubt that they meant for anyone to think that you could be an unprotected super who could be burned by a match or lighter but somehow the APS: Fire guy's fiery body would do them no harm because 'they aren't normal humans'.

*shrugs* I didn't write the book. And yeah, it does make sense from a comic books logic standpoint. *shrug*
If you don't like it, change it. My point still stands though, RAW the powers are what they say. So any discussion about the relative merits of the powers as written would sort of have to be about the actual powers and would have to be about them as they are actually written.

[SittingBull]

Are you implying that aps fire aura damage wouldn't hurt other supers?

As written? No it only damages unprotected normal humans.
My house rule? I lower the damage down to 1d6 and have it damage everything that touches the person. But that is a house rule, not the rules as written.

APS Fire does grant automatic damage.

#7 second paragraph.
The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Which is still not the same. That applies only to attacks by normal human beings, who do not have any form of protection (so basically barehanded)
RAW it does nothing to any one or anything that is not an unprotected normal human being (I am not debating the logic of this, or its cinematics, just What Is)
APS:E reacts to everything and anything that physically touches the character. AND its just a secondary added option to a really potent attack power....

Potent attack power?

Yes. There are not a lot of AoE attack powers in the game. And the number of ones that have BOTH a duration component, a range component, and can be targeted onto another? Round about zero......
So yes an utterly unique attack that does pretty decent damage, to an area, over time, at range? That sounds like "potent" to me.

But couldn't anyone it's targeted on just move out of the area? >.>

[eliakon]

Are you implying that aps fire aura damage wouldn't hurt other supers?

As written? No it only damages unprotected normal humans.
My house rule? I lower the damage down to 1d6 and have it damage everything that touches the person. But that is a house rule, not the rules as written.

APS Fire does grant automatic damage.

#7 second paragraph.
The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Which is still not the same. That applies only to attacks by normal human beings, who do not have any form of protection (so basically barehanded)
RAW it does nothing to any one or anything that is not an unprotected normal human being (I am not debating the logic of this, or its cinematics, just What Is)
APS:E reacts to everything and anything that physically touches the character. AND its just a secondary added option to a really potent attack power....

Potent attack power?

Yes. There are not a lot of AoE attack powers in the game. And the number of ones that have BOTH a duration component, a range component, and can be targeted onto another? Round about zero......
So yes an utterly unique attack that does pretty decent damage, to an area, over time, at range? That sounds like "potent" to me.

But couldn't anyone it's targeted on just move out of the area? >.>

Yes. In which case you now have a nifty area-denial weapon....and my point still stands. This utility is super rare and usually only found in magic spells...so getting it in a Super Power is pretty epic.

[SittingBull]

Shrugs. Well I am glad you like you it as written. I will be happy for that. ^^

[Nightmask]

APS Fire does grant automatic damage.

#7 second paragraph.
The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Which is still not the same. That applies only to attacks by normal human beings, who do not have any form of protection (so basically barehanded)
RAW it does nothing to any one or anything that is not an unprotected normal human being (I am not debating the logic of this, or its cinematics, just What Is)
APS:E reacts to everything and anything that physically touches the character. AND its just a secondary added option to a really potent attack power....

I seriously doubt that they meant for anyone to think that you could be an unprotected super who could be burned by a match or lighter but somehow the APS: Fire guy's fiery body would do them no harm because 'they aren't normal humans'.

*shrugs* I didn't write the book. And yeah, it does make sense from a comic books logic standpoint. *shrug*
If you don't like it, change it. My point still stands though, RAW the powers are what they say. So any discussion about the relative merits of the powers as written would sort of have to be about the actual powers and would have to be about them as they are actually written.

Except that it doesn't make sense from comic book logic because comic book logic doesn't have it that someone like the Human Torch doesn't burn anyone who hits him unless they're 'normal' you hit or touch him unless you've specific protection against it you get burned, and the rules don't have it that the APS: Fire guy doesn't burn supers that's your spin on it.

[eliakon]

APS Fire does grant automatic damage.

#7 second paragraph.
The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Which is still not the same. That applies only to attacks by normal human beings, who do not have any form of protection (so basically barehanded)
RAW it does nothing to any one or anything that is not an unprotected normal human being (I am not debating the logic of this, or its cinematics, just What Is)
APS:E reacts to everything and anything that physically touches the character. AND its just a secondary added option to a really potent attack power....

I seriously doubt that they meant for anyone to think that you could be an unprotected super who could be burned by a match or lighter but somehow the APS: Fire guy's fiery body would do them no harm because 'they aren't normal humans'.

*shrugs* I didn't write the book. And yeah, it does make sense from a comic books logic standpoint. *shrug*
If you don't like it, change it. My point still stands though, RAW the powers are what they say. So any discussion about the relative merits of the powers as written would sort of have to be about the actual powers and would have to be about them as they are actually written.

Except that it doesn't make sense from comic book logic because comic book logic doesn't have it that someone like the Human Torch doesn't burn anyone who hits him unless they're 'normal' you hit or touch him unless you've specific protection against it you get burned, and the rules don't have it that the APS: Fire guy doesn't burn supers that's your spin on it.

1) comic book logic often has the 'mundanes' (aka scrubs) be weak and vunerable to stuff that the regulars are not
2) I don't know how much spin there is on "The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero"
The book clearly says normal human beings, and unless protected. There is not really much to argue about that other than if one wants to make a house rule to change what is actually written.

[Nightmask]

Which is still not the same. That applies only to attacks by normal human beings, who do not have any form of protection (so basically barehanded)
RAW it does nothing to any one or anything that is not an unprotected normal human being (I am not debating the logic of this, or its cinematics, just What Is)
APS:E reacts to everything and anything that physically touches the character. AND its just a secondary added option to a really potent attack power....

I seriously doubt that they meant for anyone to think that you could be an unprotected super who could be burned by a match or lighter but somehow the APS: Fire guy's fiery body would do them no harm because 'they aren't normal humans'.

*shrugs* I didn't write the book. And yeah, it does make sense from a comic books logic standpoint. *shrug*
If you don't like it, change it. My point still stands though, RAW the powers are what they say. So any discussion about the relative merits of the powers as written would sort of have to be about the actual powers and would have to be about them as they are actually written.

Except that it doesn't make sense from comic book logic because comic book logic doesn't have it that someone like the Human Torch doesn't burn anyone who hits him unless they're 'normal' you hit or touch him unless you've specific protection against it you get burned, and the rules don't have it that the APS: Fire guy doesn't burn supers that's your spin on it.

1) comic book logic often has the 'mundanes' (aka scrubs) be weak and vunerable to stuff that the regulars are not
2) I don't know how much spin there is on "The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero"
The book clearly says normal human beings, and unless protected. There is not really much to argue about that other than if one wants to make a house rule to change what is actually written.

1) Which as I already pointed out comic book logic does NOT have it that fire only burns non-supers and if you're a super no matter what your powers are you're immune to being harmed touching or punching or grappling with a burning character. Nor for that matter do the comics have those supers be as special as you claim, treating things like fire, acid, or electricity as things to ignore without specific powers to justify it. Spider-man still gets electrocuted when hit by electricity like every other human being does, Reed Richards still gets burned by the Human Torch when he tries to contain him when he's on fire, and the thing still suffocates when cut off from oxygen like everyone else (he just takes longer because he's got a better biology to handle that due to his mutation).

2) Those are two separate sentences, the second sentence makes it clear that ATTACKERS take damage in punching through the flames, the prior sentence does not in fact change that to actually mean 'normal, powerless, human attackers', the second sentence makes it clear that all attackers take damage from trying to punch through the flames, whether they have powers or not. So no that guy who's a mutant with enhanced reflexes is not going to be able to punch the flaming guy without injury he's going to get burned just like some normal, non-powered person doing so because at no point does it state that those flames are special and that they don't work on people with powers just as at no point is it stated anywhere that if you've got powers you're special and immune to punching burning people and being burned by the flames. So you're taking what's clearly written and NOT actually taking it as what's written and have created a house rule that someone with APS: Fire only burns non-supers when that's not what the power says in any fashion.

[eliakon]

1) comic book logic often has the 'mundanes' (aka scrubs) be weak and vunerable to stuff that the regulars are not
2) I don't know how much spin there is on "The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero"
The book clearly says normal human beings, and unless protected. There is not really much to argue about that other than if one wants to make a house rule to change what is actually written.

1) Which as I already pointed out comic book logic does NOT have it that fire only burns non-supers and if you're a super no matter what your powers are you're immune to being harmed touching or punching or grappling with a burning character. Nor for that matter do the comics have those supers be as special as you claim, treating things like fire, acid, or electricity as things to ignore without specific powers to justify it. Spider-man still gets electrocuted when hit by electricity like every other human being does, Reed Richards still gets burned by the Human Torch when he tries to contain him when he's on fire, and the thing still suffocates when cut off from oxygen like everyone else (he just takes longer because he's got a better biology to handle that due to his mutation).

It doesn't mean that supers are immune to harm. I never claimed that
What I said, and is pretty proveable, is that mundane people are a LOT more fragile than any sort of 'hero' Punches that just sting heroes knock out/kill mundanes. A bomb that kills all the mundanes will blacken the costume of a hero....
Its 'cinimatics' at play and the idea that an attack can wipe out scores of scrubs and not harm a hero is very in genere

2) Those are two separate sentences, the second sentence makes it clear that ATTACKERS take damage in punching through the flames, the prior sentence does not in fact change that to actually mean 'normal, powerless, human attackers', the second sentence makes it clear that all attackers take damage from trying to punch through the flames, whether they have powers or not. So no that guy who's a mutant with enhanced reflexes is not going to be able to punch the flaming guy without injury he's going to get burned just like some normal, non-powered person doing so because at no point does it state that those flames are special and that they don't work on people with powers just as at no point is it stated anywhere that if you've got powers you're special and immune to punching burning people and being burned by the flames. So you're taking what's clearly written and NOT actually taking it as what's written and have created a house rule that someone with APS: Fire only burns non-supers when that's not what the power says in any fashion.

The second sentence does not change the fact that the first sentence said exactly what this paragraph is talking about. That is what is neat about our language. That I can have a series of sentences about a topic and not have to restart the entire topic in every sentence.
SO yeah, when a paragraph starts out "this affects only normal people" then you don't need every follow up sentence to say "only normal people, remember". It was already spelled out.
Now if you want to change the written text so that you can make the power do what you want, sure go right ahead. Its your game.
But its pretty clear that grammatically the two sentences are talking about the same thing. Since sentence one said 'only normal humans' then anything else that is a continuation of that sentence is still only about normal humans.

I may not like what was written. But that doesn't change what was written. (note how I don't have to restate that my dislike of what was written is the subject? How it is implied by the fact that sentence 2 follows sentence 1 and thus they are about the same subject? Yeah same principle here)

[Nightmask]

1) comic book logic often has the 'mundanes' (aka scrubs) be weak and vunerable to stuff that the regulars are not
2) I don't know how much spin there is on "The natural protection extends to attacks by normal human beings. Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4d6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero"
The book clearly says normal human beings, and unless protected. There is not really much to argue about that other than if one wants to make a house rule to change what is actually written.

1) Which as I already pointed out comic book logic does NOT have it that fire only burns non-supers and if you're a super no matter what your powers are you're immune to being harmed touching or punching or grappling with a burning character. Nor for that matter do the comics have those supers be as special as you claim, treating things like fire, acid, or electricity as things to ignore without specific powers to justify it. Spider-man still gets electrocuted when hit by electricity like every other human being does, Reed Richards still gets burned by the Human Torch when he tries to contain him when he's on fire, and the thing still suffocates when cut off from oxygen like everyone else (he just takes longer because he's got a better biology to handle that due to his mutation).

It doesn't mean that supers are immune to harm. I never claimed that
What I said, and is pretty proveable, is that mundane people are a LOT more fragile than any sort of 'hero' Punches that just sting heroes knock out/kill mundanes. A bomb that kills all the mundanes will blacken the costume of a hero....
Its 'cinimatics' at play and the idea that an attack can wipe out scores of scrubs and not harm a hero is very in genere.

Which STILL doesn't change the FACT that supers are no more immune to things like fire than a non-super UNLESS they have a specific power that justifies it. The only reason a one-shot kill punch for a human doesn't kill Spider-man for example is because he's got a lot more SDC and HP to absorb the damage NOT Because he's got any special protections against punch damage. None of that is relevant to claim you want to make that the comics have as a standard things like humans being harmed by things like fire while supers get a blanket resistance or immunity to such things even when NONE of their powers actually make them any more durable than a non-super, because they don't.

2) Those are two separate sentences, the second sentence makes it clear that ATTACKERS take damage in punching through the flames, the prior sentence does not in fact change that to actually mean 'normal, powerless, human attackers', the second sentence makes it clear that all attackers take damage from trying to punch through the flames, whether they have powers or not. So no that guy who's a mutant with enhanced reflexes is not going to be able to punch the flaming guy without injury he's going to get burned just like some normal, non-powered person doing so because at no point does it state that those flames are special and that they don't work on people with powers just as at no point is it stated anywhere that if you've got powers you're special and immune to punching burning people and being burned by the flames. So you're taking what's clearly written and NOT actually taking it as what's written and have created a house rule that someone with APS: Fire only burns non-supers when that's not what the power says in any fashion.

The second sentence does not change the fact that the first sentence said exactly what this paragraph is talking about. That is what is neat about our language. That I can have a series of sentences about a topic and not have to restart the entire topic in every sentence.
SO yeah, when a paragraph starts out "this affects only normal people" then you don't need every follow up sentence to say "only normal people, remember". It was already spelled out.
Now if you want to change the written text so that you can make the power do what you want, sure go right ahead. Its your game.
But its pretty clear that grammatically the two sentences are talking about the same thing. Since sentence one said 'only normal humans' then anything else that is a continuation of that sentence is still only about normal humans.

I may not like what was written. But that doesn't change what was written. (note how I don't have to restate that my dislike of what was written is the subject? How it is implied by the fact that sentence 2 follows sentence 1 and thus they are about the same subject? Yeah same principle here)

No, really, just no. That's NOT how it's written, only an extremely unrealistic stretching of the imagination and warping of the English language would reach that kind of conclusion. Not only does it not say that but there's no way the author would have meant for anyone to to think that someone who could turn himself on fire would have that fire only hurt people who lacked powers and that those with powers no matter what those powers were INCLUDING powers that would make them extra-vulnerable to fire (like the mega-hero vulnerability) could punch/grapple/etc the burning character without fear of being harmed by the flames.

No matter how much you want to keep insisting that that's what's written or intended by the writer will make it so, because it isn't, EVEN in comics it isn't (NOBODY who can't take heat and flame ever punches the Human Torch without being burned) and no matter how often you insist it to be so when it blatantly isn't will make it so. Which is why I'm done responding on this because I see no need to repeat myself anymore, if you do go ahead but that'll be it for me responding to point out your replacing what's canon with a fanon house rule.

[Axelmania]

you get to put up a field on yourself or another person that will, four times per round make an area affect attack.

This is something I'm prone to overlooking when considering the power from a munchy 'me vs everyone' standpoint, but this is very good RP material for protecting allies or imprisoning enemies.

Ethically the "don't move and you won't get shocked" approach to villains usually looks less brutal than the 'I shock him until he's unconcious" approach, and is more likely to inspire surrenders.

Would be cool to have a hero who stacks up all these various capture-based powers (like Circle of Flame) for immobilizing weak enemies instead of killing them.

[Severus Snape]

The 7th ability under APS Fire may be a bit ambiguous, but the following is the important piece:

Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4D6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Attackers. Not "Normal Human Beings"; not "People without super powers". Attackers who have no special protection against fire/heat.

[eliakon]

The 7th ability under APS Fire may be a bit ambiguous, but the following is the important piece:

Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4D6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Attackers. Not "Normal Human Beings"; not "People without super powers". Attackers who have no special protection against fire/heat.

And as I said, that sentence isn't just isolated. It doesn't start its own paragraph. It directly follows (and is thus modified by) the previous sentence which establishes that this discussion is about normal humans.

Though frankly at this point this is devolving into a semantics argument over grammar and I am not sure that its going to be that constructive to continue. Neither side is going to change their interpretation of the grammatical structure baring some sort of recognized independent expert on the English language parsing the paragraph for us......

[Severus Snape]

The 7th ability under APS Fire may be a bit ambiguous, but the following is the important piece:

Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4D6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Attackers. Not "Normal Human Beings"; not "People without super powers". Attackers who have no special protection against fire/heat.

And as I said, that sentence isn't just isolated. It doesn't start its own paragraph. It directly follows (and is thus modified by) the previous sentence which establishes that this discussion is about normal humans.

Though frankly at this point this is devolving into a semantics argument over grammar and I am not sure that its going to be that constructive to continue. Neither side is going to change their interpretation of the grammatical structure baring some sort of recognized independent expert on the English language parsing the paragraph for us......

Isolated or not, the intent is that APS Fire provides protection that does damage to anyone attacking the super displaying this power. If you toss out intent, and state that only normal human beings are affected by it, then you are effectively tossing out the minor power Immune/Impervious to Fire and/or Heat. What's the point of having this minor power if everyone with super powers is just automatically immune to someone with APS Fire?

[eliakon]

The 7th ability under APS Fire may be a bit ambiguous, but the following is the important piece:

Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4D6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Attackers. Not "Normal Human Beings"; not "People without super powers". Attackers who have no special protection against fire/heat.

And as I said, that sentence isn't just isolated. It doesn't start its own paragraph. It directly follows (and is thus modified by) the previous sentence which establishes that this discussion is about normal humans.

Though frankly at this point this is devolving into a semantics argument over grammar and I am not sure that its going to be that constructive to continue. Neither side is going to change their interpretation of the grammatical structure baring some sort of recognized independent expert on the English language parsing the paragraph for us......

Isolated or not, the intent is that APS Fire provides protection that does damage to anyone attacking the super displaying this power. If you toss out intent, and state that only normal human beings are affected by it, then you are effectively tossing out the minor power Immune/Impervious to Fire and/or Heat. What's the point of having this minor power if everyone with super powers is just automatically immune to someone with APS Fire?

Because your still immune to every other source of fire and heat?
Unless punching APS fire people is the only source of heat/fire damage in the entire universe I suspect that the power is still useful.....

It just means that APS fire people don't get a free high power attack buried in one of their other abilities.

[The Beast]

The 7th ability under APS Fire may be a bit ambiguous, but the following is the important piece:

Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4D6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Attackers. Not "Normal Human Beings"; not "People without super powers". Attackers who have no special protection against fire/heat.

And as I said, that sentence isn't just isolated. It doesn't start its own paragraph. It directly follows (and is thus modified by) the previous sentence which establishes that this discussion is about normal humans.

Well if you play that power as written, then you could have someone with APS: Fire attacked by dogs and the dogs wouldn't take damage. Dogs aren't normal humans. Neither are aliens. Plenty of aliens in HU. Or the insects in the Control Insects superpower.

[SittingBull]

Now I just eat popcorn and read this thread.

[The Beast]

Now I just eat popcorn and read this thread.

Popcorn. You could throw popcorn at him and they wouldn't pop because popcorn is not a normal human.

[SittingBull]

LOL!!!!!

[eliakon]

The 7th ability under APS Fire may be a bit ambiguous, but the following is the important piece:

Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4D6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Attackers. Not "Normal Human Beings"; not "People without super powers". Attackers who have no special protection against fire/heat.

And as I said, that sentence isn't just isolated. It doesn't start its own paragraph. It directly follows (and is thus modified by) the previous sentence which establishes that this discussion is about normal humans.

Well if you play that power as written, then you could have someone with APS: Fire attacked by dogs and the dogs wouldn't take damage. Dogs aren't normal humans. Neither are aliens. Plenty of aliens in HU. Or the insects in the Control Insects superpower.

And RAW your correct
This is why I said that my personal solution is to lower the damage to a much more reasonable amount and make it flatly apply to everything (I make it apply to floors as well because I find it totally ludicrous that people expect to harm foes but not have any collateral damage)

[Axelmania]

I read normal as 'people without stuff that protects them from stuff like this' not 'anyone who is unusual in any way'. Are we picturing naked super sleuths punching fire beings unharmed?

[Severus Snape]

The 7th ability under APS Fire may be a bit ambiguous, but the following is the important piece:

Unless protected in some way, attackers will take 4D6 damage each time the person punches through the flames to strike the blazing hero.

Attackers. Not "Normal Human Beings"; not "People without super powers". Attackers who have no special protection against fire/heat.

And as I said, that sentence isn't just isolated. It doesn't start its own paragraph. It directly follows (and is thus modified by) the previous sentence which establishes that this discussion is about normal humans.

Well if you play that power as written, then you could have someone with APS: Fire attacked by dogs and the dogs wouldn't take damage. Dogs aren't normal humans. Neither are aliens. Plenty of aliens in HU. Or the insects in the Control Insects superpower.

And RAW your correct
This is why I said that my personal solution is to lower the damage to a much more reasonable amount and make it flatly apply to everything (I make it apply to floors as well because I find it totally ludicrous that people expect to harm foes but not have any collateral damage)

You are missing the point here. The power as written does not completely infer that only normal mundane human beings are affected by the damage aura of APS Fire. There is no need for you to house rule the damage away or down to a more acceptable level if you read the intent of what's written. Which is that the aura damages ANYONE AND ANYTHING that enters it should that object or person not have acceptable/applicable protection from fire. Period. End of story.

You can argue semantics and wording all you want, but if there's one thing I've learned with this system it's that intent has to always - ALWAYS - be taken into account.

[eliakon]

And as I said, that sentence isn't just isolated. It doesn't start its own paragraph. It directly follows (and is thus modified by) the previous sentence which establishes that this discussion is about normal humans.

Well if you play that power as written, then you could have someone with APS: Fire attacked by dogs and the dogs wouldn't take damage. Dogs aren't normal humans. Neither are aliens. Plenty of aliens in HU. Or the insects in the Control Insects superpower.

And RAW your correct
This is why I said that my personal solution is to lower the damage to a much more reasonable amount and make it flatly apply to everything (I make it apply to floors as well because I find it totally ludicrous that people expect to harm foes but not have any collateral damage)

You are missing the point here. The power as written does not completely infer that only normal mundane human beings are affected by the damage aura of APS Fire. There is no need for you to house rule the damage away or down to a more acceptable level if you read the intent of what's written. Which is that the aura damages ANYONE AND ANYTHING that enters it should that object or person not have acceptable/applicable protection from fire. Period. End of story.

You can argue semantics and wording all you want, but if there's one thing I've learned with this system it's that intent has to always - ALWAYS - be taken into account.

And we come full circle to arguing if sentences can be taken in isolation or have to be read as part of the paragraph they are in.
your 'end of story' only ends things if your grammatical interpretation is correct. If I am correct and we read paragraphs instead of individual sentences then it isn't. Which is why this 'debate' even exists. (note how the second sentence doesn't have to restate the entire first sentence to still be about it?)

[Axelmania]

How are we supposed to read normal anyway? Nobody's normal. It has to mean people who can't resist fire.

[Razorwing]

Doesn't it seem at least a little strange that APS: Fire gives you a bunch of abilities that can affect anyone who isn't immune to fire... and then specify one power that only affects non-super humans (while leaving absolutely everything else unharmed... you can't even roast a marshmallow with his flame aura since it isn't human and won't be affected by the flames).

There comes a time when you have to wonder if you are taking the wording a little too literally.