Stealth weapons?

[flatline]

In a game where sticking a knife in the back of something is unlikely to silently kill your target, do you and your group even have a use for stealthy weapons?

Lasers are described as silent in the books, but there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent).

When my group wanted silent weapons, they picked up small .22 pistols with 2-inch silencers (resulting pistol was about 5 inches long). A .22 pistol is pretty quiet to begin with (about as loud as a mouse trap), so with the silencer it was really quiet. The group achieved MD results by using Enchant Weapon: Minor on the rounds (2D6MD). The result was a weapon that made very little noise at all and was pretty easy to conceal and didn't make enough noise for folks to even realize a weapon had been fired at close range.

But the use was limited since 2D6MD isn't a lethal level of damage against most things in the setting...at least it wasn't guaranteed to give your position away.

[Killer Cyborg]

In a game where sticking a knife in the back of something is unlikely to silently kill your target, do you and your group even have a use for stealthy weapons?

Lasers are described as silent in the books, but there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent).

When my group wanted silent weapons, they picked up small .22 pistols with 2-inch silencers (resulting pistol was about 5 inches long). A .22 pistol is pretty quiet to begin with (about as loud as a mouse trap), so with the silencer it was really quiet. The group achieved MD results by using Enchant Weapon: Minor on the rounds (2D6MD). The result was a weapon that made very little noise at all and was pretty easy to conceal and didn't make enough noise for folks to even realize a weapon had been fired at close range.

But the use was limited since 2D6MD isn't a lethal level of damage against most things in the setting...at least it wasn't guaranteed to give your position away.

Well, I guess that depends on how you interpret the physical results of a .22 caliber bullet inflicting 2d6 MD.

Regardless, strangulation is good. Also, incapacitating somebody with magic, psionics, or a neural mace can also work.

[Alrik Vas]

A well made suppressor can quiet a .22 to the point that the action on the pistol makes more noise than the round. (Personal experience)

Given that, yeah, pretty stealthy. And enchanted rounds would kill the crap out if an unarmored SDC target. Right tool for the job in a city.

As far as knives and other weapons with a report that can be handled quietly, just give them a prowl roll with a bonus. If they succeed, they make a quiet kill. Or in the case of your own games, flatline, base success off the player's description of the maneuver?

[dragonfett]

Mini-missiles

But in all seriousness, Talisman containing Globe of Silence before you fire will negate the weapon from making any noise. The energy beam/round on the other hand will still make some noise.

I would say the TK Techno-Wizard weapons are either already silent, or can be made silent easily enough by adding in the Globe of Silence spell into the spell chain. As a matter of fact, adding in Globe of Silence to any TW weapon would have similar results. If you wanted to keep the damage and range of the base weapon (if it is better than what the TW can make), I don't see any reason you couldn't have a dual powered weapon (regular e-clip/rail gun rounds for the weapon itself and a PPE battery to power the TW enchantment).

[Jefffar]

Hey, IRL the Russians developed a silenced grenade launcher for their special forces (in addition to some silent rifles that fire 9mm AP bullets).

Why silence a grenade launcher you ask? Simple, so the enemy doesn't know where the Grenades are coming from.

[Nekira Sudacne]

In a game where sticking a knife in the back of something is unlikely to silently kill your target, do you and your group even have a use for stealthy weapons?

Lasers are described as silent in the books, but there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent).

When my group wanted silent weapons, they picked up small .22 pistols with 2-inch silencers (resulting pistol was about 5 inches long). A .22 pistol is pretty quiet to begin with (about as loud as a mouse trap), so with the silencer it was really quiet. The group achieved MD results by using Enchant Weapon: Minor on the rounds (2D6MD). The result was a weapon that made very little noise at all and was pretty easy to conceal and didn't make enough noise for folks to even realize a weapon had been fired at close range.

But the use was limited since 2D6MD isn't a lethal level of damage against most things in the setting...at least it wasn't guaranteed to give your position away.

A silent MD weapon is good for killing SDC targets out of their armor, or setting up called shots to unarmored faces or the like.

Also, the point of a silent weapon is to not let the other people know where the attack came from, not necessarly to hide that an attack took place. if you are using a long range sniper rifle, no sound means your position won't be given away. sure, everyone around the target will hear his head blowing off, but they won't be able to find you right away or what direction to look, so it increases your odds of escaping. on the pistol scale, if you pull out a small laser pistol in a crowded room, conceal it with palming, it may be possible to shoot a target in the open with no one being able to notice who or where the trigger was pulled from.

The fact that it only does 2d6 MD does mean it's not very useful on MDC targets. it's only really useful if you are in a situation where the majority of the targets are SDC only.

[say652]

Infrared and Thermal emission shielding, even for weapons is highly under rated, unless firing the weapon is invisible to optics.
Nothing special right, microwaves are invisible, technically bypass armor but the listed radiation shielding in most environmental things would take damage first. Kill the vehicle then the pilot.
Mdc glass, that you can see through, could be used to make knives, arrows, swords and other ancient weapons. I'm sure nearly invisible Ramjet rounds fired by a silenced weapon could be built as well.
Would nearly invisible weapons that you can see through get a bonus?

Naruni Camouflage, added to glass weapons Could be created as well.

The ability to create stealth weapons exist, just not something most people game with.

Tw and magic, not really my thing. I prefer technological creations, with stealth capabilities.

[flatline]

Ramjets are very bad since they leave a trail of smoke leading right back to the shooter.

[Zer0 Kay]

In a game where sticking a knife in the back of something is unlikely to silently kill your target, do you and your group even have a use for stealthy weapons?

Lasers are described as silent in the books, but there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent).

When my group wanted silent weapons, they picked up small .22 pistols with 2-inch silencers (resulting pistol was about 5 inches long). A .22 pistol is pretty quiet to begin with (about as loud as a mouse trap), so with the silencer it was really quiet. The group achieved MD results by using Enchant Weapon: Minor on the rounds (2D6MD). The result was a weapon that made very little noise at all and was pretty easy to conceal and didn't make enough noise for folks to even realize a weapon had been fired at close range.

But the use was limited since 2D6MD isn't a lethal level of damage against most things in the setting...at least it wasn't guaranteed to give your position away.

Well, I guess that depends on how you interpret the physical results of a .22 caliber bullet inflicting 2d6 MD.

Regardless, strangulation is good. Also, incapacitating somebody with magic, psionics, or a neural mace can also work.

Cast carpet of adhesion on a flexible piece of MDC material like dragon hide or something and stick it onto their face from behind pressing it down to seal it around the breathing orifices.

[Zer0 Kay]

Ramjets are very bad since they leave a trail of smoke leading right back to the shooter.

Normally exhaust not smoke, and not always. A SR-71 in ramjet flight and scramjets only leave exhaust and/or contrails when the conditions are right.

[taalismn]

Mini-missiles

But in all seriousness, Talisman containing Globe of Silence before you fire will negate the weapon from making any noise. The energy beam/round on the other hand will still make some noise.

I would say the TK Techno-Wizard weapons are either already silent, or can be made silent easily enough by adding in the Globe of Silence spell into the spell chain. As a matter of fact, adding in Globe of Silence to any TW weapon would have similar results. If you wanted to keep the damage and range of the base weapon (if it is better than what the TW can make), I don't see any reason you couldn't have a dual powered weapon (regular e-clip/rail gun rounds for the weapon itself and a PPE battery to power the TW enchantment).

Indeed...grenades with Globe of Silence. Of course, you have to go in and make sure that there are absolutely NO survivors left in the area of effect, otherwise they'll sound the alarm once the spell runs out.

[flatline]

Ramjets are very bad since they leave a trail of smoke leading right back to the shooter.

Normally exhaust not smoke, and not always. A SR-71 in ramjet flight and scramjets only leave exhaust and/or contrails when the conditions are right.

Yet the space shuttle launches always leave clearly visible trails. So to model rockets.

Even if the exhaust isn't visible, the trail of heated air will be visible to anyone who can see into the IR spectrum.

Side rant: how is a "thermo imager" different from seeing IR?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Ramjets are very bad since they leave a trail of smoke leading right back to the shooter.

Normally exhaust not smoke, and not always. A SR-71 in ramjet flight and scramjets only leave exhaust and/or contrails when the conditions are right.

Yet the space shuttle launches always leave clearly visible trails. So to model rockets.

Even if the exhaust isn't visible, the trail of heated air will be visible to anyone who can see into the IR spectrum.

Side rant: how is a "thermo imager" different from seeing IR?

There is a distinction in fact, actually. Infra-red vision simply means you can "see" thermal radatiation, AKA heat. all things above 0 kelvin emit some thermal radiation, lower when cold, more when hot. Do note that at a certain point (fire), it is actually emitting more visible light than thermal radiation (hence why it's just a blinding dot).

a Thermo-Imager is a device keyed to only display inafred radiation within a "useful' spectrum, to make it easier to make out discrite objects rather than blobs. that is to say, a thermal imaging device will only really show objects greater than the average room temprature (10 microns), to make seeing living things easier and clearer. a "hot" person surrounded by a "cold" background.

Conversly, Infared Vision is nondiscrimitory--it displays all shades of thermal radiation, making it more like looking at a spectrum than a picture of your surroundings.

or the over-simplified version: A thermo-imager is more user friendly by converting all thermal gradiants below room tempature into room temptature to make people stand out easier.

[Natasha]

Pretty much, but IR vision could allow an image to be formed. Infrared vision is a biological system. Somehow there are sensory and perception organs sensitive to those wavelengths in the person. There is a point at which the waves are too wide to enter one's eyeballs. The widest human pupils get is about 8mm. But even supposing one has such organs which sense the light so it may be perceived, a picture of the environment could still be formed just like with the optical band of the spectrum. It depends on the biology's perception of each wavelength (in with our eyes, wavelength means colour).

[Zer0 Kay]

Infrared and Thermal emission shielding, even for weapons is highly under rated, unless firing the weapon is invisible to optics.
Nothing special right, microwaves are invisible, technically bypass armor but the listed radiation shielding in most environmental things would take damage first. Kill the vehicle then the pilot.
Mdc glass, that you can see through, could be used to make knives, arrows, swords and other ancient weapons. I'm sure nearly invisible Ramjet rounds fired by a silenced weapon could be built as well.
Would nearly invisible weapons that you can see through get a bonus?

Naruni Camouflage, added to glass weapons Could be created as well.

The ability to create stealth weapons exist, just not something most people game with.

Tw and magic, not really my thing. I prefer technological creations, with stealth capabilities.

Microwaves can be blocked by a metal mesh that has gaps 1/4 the wavelength or smaller. Metal will only heat up of their are gaps that can let the RF in and end up trapping it, otherwise microwaves are only good at exciting the water molecules in organics, causing them to individual boil. Something immune to heat or that doesn't ha e moisture in its outer layer won't be affected by it. Hmm, maybe if a conductive material would absorb enough of the power it would cause electrical damage, but at all of these points other weapons are more effective at doing the same types of damage.

[Zer0 Kay]

Ramjets are very bad since they leave a trail of smoke leading right back to the shooter.

Normally exhaust not smoke, and not always. A SR-71 in ramjet flight and scramjets only leave exhaust and/or contrails when the conditions are right.

Yet the space shuttle launches always leave clearly visible trails. So to model rockets.

Even if the exhaust isn't visible, the trail of heated air will be visible to anyone who can see into the IR spectrum.

Side rant: how is a "thermo imager" different from seeing IR?

You do know your talking about two different kinds of engines right? Your comparing an orange to a lemon. A ramjet is not a rocket. Lets not compare it to one. Compare a ramjets' emissions with a ramjets' emissions.

[Zer0 Kay]

Ramjets are very bad since they leave a trail of smoke leading right back to the shooter.

Normally exhaust not smoke, and not always. A SR-71 in ramjet flight and scramjets only leave exhaust and/or contrails when the conditions are right.

Yet the space shuttle launches always leave clearly visible trails. So to model rockets.

Even if the exhaust isn't visible, the trail of heated air will be visible to anyone who can see into the IR spectrum.

Side rant: how is a "thermo imager" different from seeing IR?

There is a distinction in fact, actually. Infra-red vision simply means you can "see" thermal radatiation, AKA heat. all things above 0 kelvin emit some thermal radiation, lower when cold, more when hot. Do note that at a certain point (fire), it is actually emitting more visible light than thermal radiation (hence why it's just a blinding dot).

a Thermo-Imager is a device keyed to only display inafred radiation within a "useful' spectrum, to make it easier to make out discrite objects rather than blobs. that is to say, a thermal imaging device will only really show objects greater than the average room temprature (10 microns), to make seeing living things easier and clearer. a "hot" person surrounded by a "cold" background.

Conversly, Infared Vision is nondiscrimitory--it displays all shades of thermal radiation, making it more like looking at a spectrum than a picture of your surroundings.

or the over-simplified version: A thermo-imager is more user friendly by converting all thermal gradiants below room tempature into room temptature to make people stand out easier.

And yet another way to say it would be a thermal imager converts the different shades of red into a variety of colors that make it easy for us to tell apart. IR would be seeing everything in different shades of infra-red. Kinda like a red version of the old monochromatic computer screens 16, 32 shades of red, who knows, it would depend on the sensitivity. All creatures would have IR rather than thermal, tech devices can have either but if it is being viewed by human minds it would be easier to put the shades into different colors so they can contrast easier. IR = natural, Thermal = manufactured/processed.

[Zer0 Kay]

Pretty much, but IR vision could allow an image to be formed. Infrared vision is a biological system. Somehow there are sensory and perception organs sensitive to those wavelengths in the person. There is a point at which the waves are too wide to enter one's eyeballs. The widest human pupils get is about 8mm. But even supposing one has such organs which sense the light so it may be perceived, a picture of the environment could still be formed just like with the optical band of the spectrum. It depends on the biology's perception of each wavelength (in with our eyes, wavelength means colour).

If it depends on the size of the aperture for the wavelength, then how do snakes do it when their pits are smaller than their pupils? NOT saying your wrong, asking to learn.

[Zer0 Kay]

Mini-missiles

But in all seriousness, Talisman containing Globe of Silence before you fire will negate the weapon from making any noise. The energy beam/round on the other hand will still make some noise.

I would say the TK Techno-Wizard weapons are either already silent, or can be made silent easily enough by adding in the Globe of Silence spell into the spell chain. As a matter of fact, adding in Globe of Silence to any TW weapon would have similar results. If you wanted to keep the damage and range of the base weapon (if it is better than what the TW can make), I don't see any reason you couldn't have a dual powered weapon (regular e-clip/rail gun rounds for the weapon itself and a PPE battery to power the TW enchantment).

Indeed...grenades with Globe of Silence. Of course, you have to go in and make sure that there are absolutely NO survivors left in the area of effect, otherwise they'll sound the alarm once the spell runs out.

Well heck since were going away from melee and adding magic. You can always use my TW missile launch system. There are two variants. They both eliminate the need for propellant and guidance systems as they teleport the missiles out of the launcher to the target. The two versions either allow double the payload or double the damage from each missile. No exhaust trail and whoever built it could always develop a system like the the one that is either for the land warrior or future warrior projects. The IRL concept is to modify a Stryker IFV to carry AT missiles in vertical launch tubes and with a device slung underneath the soldiers rifles they can paint a target and launch a missile from the Stryker. So the IG version would have a missile carrier but the launch device would probably have to be some sort of monocle so the teleport is to line of sight. If you want the kill to be silent too then each of the "missiles" would have to have Globe of Silence on them... or maybe each volley gets launched with a supplementary TW missile that casts globe of silence or the missile has improved invisibility or invisibility superior,which ever it is, so people can't see or hear the blast you just see people in a room become paste.

[Natasha]

Pretty much, but IR vision could allow an image to be formed. Infrared vision is a biological system. Somehow there are sensory and perception organs sensitive to those wavelengths in the person. There is a point at which the waves are too wide to enter one's eyeballs. The widest human pupils get is about 8mm. But even supposing one has such organs which sense the light so it may be perceived, a picture of the environment could still be formed just like with the optical band of the spectrum. It depends on the biology's perception of each wavelength (in with our eyes, wavelength means colour).

If it depends on the size of the aperture for the wavelength, then how do snakes do it when their pits are smaller than their pupils? NOT saying your wrong, asking to learn.

I meant we cannot sense any radiation with wavelength longer than 8mm. The snake's pits are wide enough to collect IR and so are our eyes wide enough. Unlike the snakes, we don't have the biology to do anything with it, however.

[Zer0 Kay]

Pretty much, but IR vision could allow an image to be formed. Infrared vision is a biological system. Somehow there are sensory and perception organs sensitive to those wavelengths in the person. There is a point at which the waves are too wide to enter one's eyeballs. The widest human pupils get is about 8mm. But even supposing one has such organs which sense the light so it may be perceived, a picture of the environment could still be formed just like with the optical band of the spectrum. It depends on the biology's perception of each wavelength (in with our eyes, wavelength means colour).

If it depends on the size of the aperture for the wavelength, then how do snakes do it when their pits are smaller than their pupils? NOT saying your wrong, asking to learn.

I meant we cannot sense any radiation with wavelength longer than 8mm. The snake's pits are wide enough to collect IR and so are our eyes wide enough. Unlike the snakes, we don't have the biology to do anything with it, however.

Oh, okay, must have read it wrong.

[Pepsi Jedi]

In a game where sticking a knife in the back of something is unlikely to silently kill your target, do you and your group even have a use for stealthy weapons?

Lasers are described as silent in the books, but there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent).

When my group wanted silent weapons, they picked up small .22 pistols with 2-inch silencers (resulting pistol was about 5 inches long). A .22 pistol is pretty quiet to begin with (about as loud as a mouse trap), so with the silencer it was really quiet. The group achieved MD results by using Enchant Weapon: Minor on the rounds (2D6MD). The result was a weapon that made very little noise at all and was pretty easy to conceal and didn't make enough noise for folks to even realize a weapon had been fired at close range.

But the use was limited since 2D6MD isn't a lethal level of damage against most things in the setting...at least it wasn't guaranteed to give your position away.

As written there is no explosion from energy transfer in the world of Rifts. Lasers 'are' silent. It's in the books as canon. You're trying to apply real world physics to a game with boom guns and 40 foot robots walking around and not getting stuck in the ground or damaging streets or roads, and flying dragons and aliens and supernatural creatures from different dimensions along side bipedal uplifted canine people that can sense magic.

If you're playing rifts and accept all the other fantastical things in the setting, then "Lasers are silent" is very very far down the list.

Lasers, --in Rifts/Palladium-- are silent.

[Zer0 Kay]

In a game where sticking a knife in the back of something is unlikely to silently kill your target, do you and your group even have a use for stealthy weapons?

Lasers are described as silent in the books, but there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent).

When my group wanted silent weapons, they picked up small .22 pistols with 2-inch silencers (resulting pistol was about 5 inches long). A .22 pistol is pretty quiet to begin with (about as loud as a mouse trap), so with the silencer it was really quiet. The group achieved MD results by using Enchant Weapon: Minor on the rounds (2D6MD). The result was a weapon that made very little noise at all and was pretty easy to conceal and didn't make enough noise for folks to even realize a weapon had been fired at close range.

But the use was limited since 2D6MD isn't a lethal level of damage against most things in the setting...at least it wasn't guaranteed to give your position away.

As written there is no explosion from energy transfer in the world of Rifts. Lasers 'are' silent. It's in the books as canon. You're trying to apply real world physics to a game with boom guns and 40 foot robots walking around and not getting stuck in the ground or damaging streets or roads, and flying dragons and aliens and supernatural creatures from different dimensions along side bipedal uplifted canine people that can sense magic.

If you're playing rifts and accept all the other fantastical things in the setting, then "Lasers are silent" is very very far down the list.

Lasers, --in Rifts/Palladium-- are silent.

Your funny, why would the presence of railguns negate real world physics? There are real railguns. Now if your saying for such a low speed to cause so much damage or that most firearms cause a sonic boom or any of the things that make the boomgun more erroneous than fantastical or unbelievable makes it defy physics... I guess your right

[Maddux]

Would have no problem with them just seem to forget all these ideas you have to help you win should not have a problem if there used against the group.

[flatline]

In a game where sticking a knife in the back of something is unlikely to silently kill your target, do you and your group even have a use for stealthy weapons?

Lasers are described as silent in the books, but there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent).

When my group wanted silent weapons, they picked up small .22 pistols with 2-inch silencers (resulting pistol was about 5 inches long). A .22 pistol is pretty quiet to begin with (about as loud as a mouse trap), so with the silencer it was really quiet. The group achieved MD results by using Enchant Weapon: Minor on the rounds (2D6MD). The result was a weapon that made very little noise at all and was pretty easy to conceal and didn't make enough noise for folks to even realize a weapon had been fired at close range.

But the use was limited since 2D6MD isn't a lethal level of damage against most things in the setting...at least it wasn't guaranteed to give your position away.

As written there is no explosion from energy transfer in the world of Rifts. Lasers 'are' silent. It's in the books as canon. You're trying to apply real world physics to a game with boom guns and 40 foot robots walking around and not getting stuck in the ground or damaging streets or roads, and flying dragons and aliens and supernatural creatures from different dimensions along side bipedal uplifted canine people that can sense magic.

If you're playing rifts and accept all the other fantastical things in the setting, then "Lasers are silent" is very very far down the list.

Lasers, --in Rifts/Palladium-- are silent.

I pick and choose what I'm willing to accept.

I think I remember CB1 stating that lasers make no sound as they're emitted from the gun and passing through the air, but I seriously doubt that anything written in canon claims that the target is "silently" destroyed. Do you have a citation?

[Zer0 Kay]

In a game where sticking a knife in the back of something is unlikely to silently kill your target, do you and your group even have a use for stealthy weapons?

Lasers are described as silent in the books, but there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent).

When my group wanted silent weapons, they picked up small .22 pistols with 2-inch silencers (resulting pistol was about 5 inches long). A .22 pistol is pretty quiet to begin with (about as loud as a mouse trap), so with the silencer it was really quiet. The group achieved MD results by using Enchant Weapon: Minor on the rounds (2D6MD). The result was a weapon that made very little noise at all and was pretty easy to conceal and didn't make enough noise for folks to even realize a weapon had been fired at close range.

But the use was limited since 2D6MD isn't a lethal level of damage against most things in the setting...at least it wasn't guaranteed to give your position away.

As written there is no explosion from energy transfer in the world of Rifts. Lasers 'are' silent. It's in the books as canon. You're trying to apply real world physics to a game with boom guns and 40 foot robots walking around and not getting stuck in the ground or damaging streets or roads, and flying dragons and aliens and supernatural creatures from different dimensions along side bipedal uplifted canine people that can sense magic.

If you're playing rifts and accept all the other fantastical things in the setting, then "Lasers are silent" is very very far down the list.

Lasers, --in Rifts/Palladium-- are silent.

I pick and choose what I'm willing to accept.

I think I remember CB1 stating that lasers make no sound as they're emitted from the gun and passing through the air, but I seriously doubt that anything written in canon claims that the target is "silently" destroyed. Do you have a citation?

Pffth

Everyone knows it sizzles and leave a corpse with little or no pink in the middles. Sizzle sizzle.

[taalismn]

[
Everyone knows it sizzles and leave a corpse with little or no pink in the middles. Sizzle sizzle.

Ah, the Triax Burgermator-4000 X-Ray Laser....a civilized weapon for an uncivilized time.

[SpiritInterface]

Hey, IRL the Russians developed a silenced grenade launcher for their special forces (in addition to some silent rifles that fire 9mm AP bullets).

Why silence a grenade launcher you ask? Simple, so the enemy doesn't know where the Grenades are coming from.

Actually it was a ripoff of the British WWII silent spigot mortar which used a telescoping trapped gas piston shell. In 1968 the US Army was testing the Teleshot Shotgun shells for Vietnam.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Hey, IRL the Russians developed a silenced grenade launcher for their special forces (in addition to some silent rifles that fire 9mm AP bullets).

Why silence a grenade launcher you ask? Simple, so the enemy doesn't know where the Grenades are coming from.

Actually it was a ripoff of the British WWII silent spigot mortar which used a telescoping trapped gas piston shell. In 1968 the US Army was testing the Teleshot Shotgun shells for Vietnam.

Please, Please tell me that teleshot was intended as a way to shoot someone through their televisions

[SpiritInterface]

Hey, IRL the Russians developed a silenced grenade launcher for their special forces (in addition to some silent rifles that fire 9mm AP bullets).

Why silence a grenade launcher you ask? Simple, so the enemy doesn't know where the Grenades are coming from.

Actually it was a ripoff of the British WWII silent spigot mortar which used a telescoping trapped gas piston shell. In 1968 the US Army was testing the Teleshot Shotgun shells for Vietnam.

Please, Please tell me that teleshot was intended as a way to shoot someone through their televisions

I SO WISH...

[Zer0 Kay]

Hey, IRL the Russians developed a silenced grenade launcher for their special forces (in addition to some silent rifles that fire 9mm AP bullets).

Why silence a grenade launcher you ask? Simple, so the enemy doesn't know where the Grenades are coming from.

Actually it was a ripoff of the British WWII silent spigot mortar which used a telescoping trapped gas piston shell. In 1968 the US Army was testing the Teleshot Shotgun shells for Vietnam.

How is a 203 not "silent"? A little thump compared to a bang.

[Zer0 Kay]

Hey, IRL the Russians developed a silenced grenade launcher for their special forces (in addition to some silent rifles that fire 9mm AP bullets).

Why silence a grenade launcher you ask? Simple, so the enemy doesn't know where the Grenades are coming from.

Actually it was a ripoff of the British WWII silent spigot mortar which used a telescoping trapped gas piston shell. In 1968 the US Army was testing the Teleshot Shotgun shells for Vietnam.

Please, Please tell me that teleshot was intended as a way to shoot someone through their televisions

What? As long as your behind it and the round has sufficient penetration any gun can be used for th... Oh you meant by transmission.

[SpiritInterface]

Hey, IRL the Russians developed a silenced grenade launcher for their special forces (in addition to some silent rifles that fire 9mm AP bullets).

Why silence a grenade launcher you ask? Simple, so the enemy doesn't know where the Grenades are coming from.

Actually it was a ripoff of the British WWII silent spigot mortar which used a telescoping trapped gas piston shell. In 1968 the US Army was testing the Teleshot Shotgun shells for Vietnam.

How is a 203 not "silent"? A little thump compared to a bang.

The Blooper or Thumper made a very distinctive sound that even though it softer that gunshots carried for a long way (or was felt).

[Nox Equites]

Hey, IRL the Russians developed a silenced grenade launcher for their special forces (in addition to some silent rifles that fire 9mm AP bullets).

Why silence a grenade launcher you ask? Simple, so the enemy doesn't know where the Grenades are coming from.

Actually it was a ripoff of the British WWII silent spigot mortar which used a telescoping trapped gas piston shell. In 1968 the US Army was testing the Teleshot Shotgun shells for Vietnam.

How is a 203 not "silent"? A little thump compared to a bang.

Human hearing can be good at figuring out general direction to sound sources. If you hear the launch you might be able to seek cover or return fire. Another good example is the Fly-K mortar that uses a piston to launch its round. And it is single man portable.

[Natasha]

The directional sense of sound drops off quickly with distance (inverse-square).

[Pepsi Jedi]

In a game where sticking a knife in the back of something is unlikely to silently kill your target, do you and your group even have a use for stealthy weapons?

Lasers are described as silent in the books, but there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent).

When my group wanted silent weapons, they picked up small .22 pistols with 2-inch silencers (resulting pistol was about 5 inches long). A .22 pistol is pretty quiet to begin with (about as loud as a mouse trap), so with the silencer it was really quiet. The group achieved MD results by using Enchant Weapon: Minor on the rounds (2D6MD). The result was a weapon that made very little noise at all and was pretty easy to conceal and didn't make enough noise for folks to even realize a weapon had been fired at close range.

But the use was limited since 2D6MD isn't a lethal level of damage against most things in the setting...at least it wasn't guaranteed to give your position away.

As written there is no explosion from energy transfer in the world of Rifts. Lasers 'are' silent. It's in the books as canon. You're trying to apply real world physics to a game with boom guns and 40 foot robots walking around and not getting stuck in the ground or damaging streets or roads, and flying dragons and aliens and supernatural creatures from different dimensions along side bipedal uplifted canine people that can sense magic.

If you're playing rifts and accept all the other fantastical things in the setting, then "Lasers are silent" is very very far down the list.

Lasers, --in Rifts/Palladium-- are silent.

I pick and choose what I'm willing to accept.

I think I remember CB1 stating that lasers make no sound as they're emitted from the gun and passing through the air, but I seriously doubt that anything written in canon claims that the target is "silently" destroyed. Do you have a citation?

Doesn't really matter does it? You're picking and choosing what you're willing to accept. You're using house rules in this. I>E> your lasers make explosive sounds when they hit things. *Shrugs* So... you're going to do what you want to do.

That's not me being flip, but when you start your reply with statement of picking andchoosing what you're willing to accept. then why waste time? You're not using canon, then you can make them explode into pink fluffy unicorn kittys if you want to.

[Pepsi Jedi]

The directional sense of sound drops off quickly with distance (inverse-square).

We're predators. It's still present. In the woods you can hear a shot from miles off and know the general direction it's coming from.

If you're in the rage of a grenade launcher you are WELL with in range of knowing which way it came from. (Baring circumstance to augment that)

[SpiritInterface]

The directional sense of sound drops off quickly with distance (inverse-square).

We're predators. It's still present. In the woods you can hear a shot from miles off and know the general direction it's coming from.

If you're in the rage of a grenade launcher you are WELL with in range of knowing which way it came from. (Baring circumstance to augment that)

True, I could always tell when a M79, or an M203 was fired, if I couldn't hear it I could feel it.

[Natasha]

The directional sense of sound drops off quickly with distance (inverse-square).

We're predators. It's still present. In the woods you can hear a shot from miles off and know the general direction it's coming from.

If you're in the rage of a grenade launcher you are WELL with in range of knowing which way it came from. (Baring circumstance to augment that)

You're not going to be able to return fire, which is what I was responding to. Well, unless you level the woods like in Predator but they still missed.....

The ability to accurately sense direction drops off quickly; "general direction" is "somewhere over there" which could be anywhere, including the source of the echo that sends you completely off course.

[flatline]

In a game where sticking a knife in the back of something is unlikely to silently kill your target, do you and your group even have a use for stealthy weapons?

Lasers are described as silent in the books, but there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent).

When my group wanted silent weapons, they picked up small .22 pistols with 2-inch silencers (resulting pistol was about 5 inches long). A .22 pistol is pretty quiet to begin with (about as loud as a mouse trap), so with the silencer it was really quiet. The group achieved MD results by using Enchant Weapon: Minor on the rounds (2D6MD). The result was a weapon that made very little noise at all and was pretty easy to conceal and didn't make enough noise for folks to even realize a weapon had been fired at close range.

But the use was limited since 2D6MD isn't a lethal level of damage against most things in the setting...at least it wasn't guaranteed to give your position away.

As written there is no explosion from energy transfer in the world of Rifts. Lasers 'are' silent. It's in the books as canon. You're trying to apply real world physics to a game with boom guns and 40 foot robots walking around and not getting stuck in the ground or damaging streets or roads, and flying dragons and aliens and supernatural creatures from different dimensions along side bipedal uplifted canine people that can sense magic.

If you're playing rifts and accept all the other fantastical things in the setting, then "Lasers are silent" is very very far down the list.

Lasers, --in Rifts/Palladium-- are silent.

I pick and choose what I'm willing to accept.

I think I remember CB1 stating that lasers make no sound as they're emitted from the gun and passing through the air, but I seriously doubt that anything written in canon claims that the target is "silently" destroyed. Do you have a citation?

Doesn't really matter does it? You're picking and choosing what you're willing to accept. You're using house rules in this. I>E> your lasers make explosive sounds when they hit things. *Shrugs* So... you're going to do what you want to do.

That's not me being flip, but when you start your reply with statement of picking and choosing what you're willing to accept. then why waste time? You're not using canon, then you can make them explode into pink fluffy unicorn kittys if you want to.

I don't claim my house rules are canon. Can you provide a citation to support your claim that according to canon, the targets of lasers remain silent when hit? If not, then quit claiming it's canon.

[Pepsi Jedi]

In a game where sticking a knife in the back of something is unlikely to silently kill your target, do you and your group even have a use for stealthy weapons?

Lasers are described as silent in the books, but there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent).

When my group wanted silent weapons, they picked up small .22 pistols with 2-inch silencers (resulting pistol was about 5 inches long). A .22 pistol is pretty quiet to begin with (about as loud as a mouse trap), so with the silencer it was really quiet. The group achieved MD results by using Enchant Weapon: Minor on the rounds (2D6MD). The result was a weapon that made very little noise at all and was pretty easy to conceal and didn't make enough noise for folks to even realize a weapon had been fired at close range.

But the use was limited since 2D6MD isn't a lethal level of damage against most things in the setting...at least it wasn't guaranteed to give your position away.

As written there is no explosion from energy transfer in the world of Rifts. Lasers 'are' silent. It's in the books as canon. You're trying to apply real world physics to a game with boom guns and 40 foot robots walking around and not getting stuck in the ground or damaging streets or roads, and flying dragons and aliens and supernatural creatures from different dimensions along side bipedal uplifted canine people that can sense magic.

If you're playing rifts and accept all the other fantastical things in the setting, then "Lasers are silent" is very very far down the list.

Lasers, --in Rifts/Palladium-- are silent.

I pick and choose what I'm willing to accept.

I think I remember CB1 stating that lasers make no sound as they're emitted from the gun and passing through the air, but I seriously doubt that anything written in canon claims that the target is "silently" destroyed. Do you have a citation?

Doesn't really matter does it? You're picking and choosing what you're willing to accept. You're using house rules in this. I>E> your lasers make explosive sounds when they hit things. *Shrugs* So... you're going to do what you want to do.

That's not me being flip, but when you start your reply with statement of picking and choosing what you're willing to accept. then why waste time? You're not using canon, then you can make them explode into pink fluffy unicorn kittys if you want to.

I don't claim my house rules are canon. Can you provide a citation to support your claim that according to canon, the targets of lasers remain silent when hit? If not, then quit claiming it's canon.

Rifts Game master guide.
Page 111
Under "A Few Weapons notes"

"Lasers are completely silent! The beams do not make any noise except for the click of the trigger, the soft hum of the energy clip and the sizzling "ssswhack" sound it makes when it hits (and sears through
or into) its target. This is one reason lasers are preferred by assassins and snipers."

Nothing remotely akin to your statement of "there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent)."

Now... M80s became illegal in 1966... so you've probably not actually heard one.... But the originals had 3000mg of flash powder... to put it in perspective anything over 50mg of powder these days is illegal to sell. So a real m80 would be 60 times what you might be considering. There's plenty of 'fake' ones around but in truth, M80s would require a federal explosives license to make/have/use.

[Tor]

I don't understand how a "sizzling "ssswhack" sound" is "completely" silent though. I guess the laser beam itself is silent but the gun/clip creating it or the burning it creates are noisy.

Perhaps it does a sizzly ssswhack for MDC armor but a boomier thing for exploding SDC guys?

[Zer0 Kay]

I don't understand how a "sizzling "ssswhack" sound" is "completely" silent though. I guess the laser beam itself is silent but the gun/clip creating it or the burning it creates are noisy.

Perhaps it does a sizzly ssswhack for MDC armor but a boomier thing for exploding SDC guys?

Flesh things don't go boom. They go splick or splat or sploosh.

[dragonfett]

I don't understand how a "sizzling "ssswhack" sound" is "completely" silent though. I guess the laser beam itself is silent but the gun/clip creating it or the burning it creates are noisy.

Perhaps it does a sizzly ssswhack for MDC armor but a boomier thing for exploding SDC guys?

The book says the laser itself is silent, but that it makes a sizzling noise on contact of something (one would hope it's the target unless that happens to be you or someone you care about/are trying to protect...).

[Library Ogre]

I don't understand how a "sizzling "ssswhack" sound" is "completely" silent though. I guess the laser beam itself is silent but the gun/clip creating it or the burning it creates are noisy.

Perhaps it does a sizzly ssswhack for MDC armor but a boomier thing for exploding SDC guys?

The book says the laser itself is silent, but that it makes a sizzling noise on contact of something (one would hope it's the target unless that happens to be you or someone you care about/are trying to protect...).

The problem is that atmospheric water vapor is "something". That's what tends to create the sizzle as it travels through the air.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I don't understand how a "sizzling "ssswhack" sound" is "completely" silent though. I guess the laser beam itself is silent but the gun/clip creating it or the burning it creates are noisy.

Perhaps it does a sizzly ssswhack for MDC armor but a boomier thing for exploding SDC guys?

The book says the laser itself is silent, but that it makes a sizzling noise on contact of something (one would hope it's the target unless that happens to be you or someone you care about/are trying to protect...).

The problem is that atmospheric water vapor is "something". That's what tends to create the sizzle as it travels through the air.

I'm pretty sure that's NOT what they mean....

Im fairly certain they mean the sound of frying bacon or flesh. Or the sound that a brand makes when you press it to a cow or something. The quote points out it's just the sizzle when it -hits- something. Not flying through the air.

Either way it's not an explosion of any sort.

[Tor]

Is there anything about lasers defaulting to red unless indicated in weapons like blue-green lasers in Underseas? I figure in any color artwork it was probably red but it's be interesting if there was others.

*wonders if you can laser outside the visible spectrum*

[flatline]

Rifts Game master guide.
Page 111
Under "A Few Weapons notes"

"Lasers are completely silent! The beams do not make any noise except for the click of the trigger, the soft hum of the energy clip and the sizzling "ssswhack" sound it makes when it hits (and sears through
or into) its target. This is one reason lasers are preferred by assassins and snipers."

Nothing remotely akin to your statement of "there's nothing silent about the target exploding from the energy transfer (unless you consider an M80 firecracker to be silent)."

Your own citation defeats your argument! It says that the beams make no noise, but it acknowledges that on one side, the gun may make noise, and on the other side the target may make noise.

Now... M80s became illegal in 1966... so you've probably not actually heard one.... But the originals had 3000mg of flash powder... to put it in perspective anything over 50mg of powder these days is illegal to sell. So a real m80 would be 60 times what you might be considering. There's plenty of 'fake' ones around but in truth, M80s would require a federal explosives license to make/have/use.

Next time I will attempt to use a more current reference point. My apologies.

[Alrik Vas]

With the speed that a laser travels, you wouldn't know the difference between the sizzle in the air or contact.

Rather, since it's going faster than sound generally, you don't hear anything at all until contact, most likely.

[flatline]

Is there anything about lasers defaulting to red unless indicated in weapons like blue-green lasers in Underseas? I figure in any color artwork it was probably red but it's be interesting if there was others.

*wonders if you can laser outside the visible spectrum*

I've always ruled that by default, lasers are in the UV range unless otherwise noted. That means that blue-green lasers aren't really all that big of a shift in the beam wavelength.