All the ways to gain skills

[cosmicfish]

Arbitrary Character wants or needs to add some new skills, and doesn't want to plead for GM fiat. How does Arbitrary do this, and what are the consequences, if any?

Normal OCC skill progression adds skill at a certain rate, limited to certain selections, starting at base level but advancing normally there. If Arbitrary advances a level he may be able to add a single skill under these conditions.

Switching to a new OCC adds a package of skills, but freezes all the old ones and generally involves a whole complicated quagmire that is gross overkill if Arbitrary just needs to learn to swim.

Mindwerks has a Brain Programming MOM implant that would give Arbitrary 5 skills at 88% without regard to usual OCC limitations, but those skills never improve and the implant has a 100% chance of damaging the other skills that Arbitrary wants to also use.

How else can Arbitrary add some skills, per canon?

[Riftmaker]

In ultimate rifts rogue scholars can impart 2ndary skills i think.

[cosmicfish]

So a Rogue Scholar can teach Arbitrary a secondary skill that presumably he is required to have on his list of acceptable skills by OCC, and that presumably the Rogue Scholar ALSO knows. And it takes 1d6+8 weeks, with 12 hours a week for the Scholar and 22 hours a week for Arbitrary.

Any other ideas? No limits here, so long as it is canon. Or at least canon-ish.

[guardiandashi]

So a Rogue Scholar can teach Arbitrary a secondary skill that presumably he is required to have on his list of acceptable skills by OCC, and that presumably the Rogue Scholar ALSO knows. And it takes 1d6+8 weeks, with 12 hours a week for the Scholar and 22 hours a week for Arbitrary.

Any other ideas? No limits here, so long as it is canon. Or at least canon-ish.

in theory Arbitrary could go to school and learn the skills as well. unfortunately there tend to be a distinct lack of schools most places on rifts earth. however I believe the rules for "school" training are in heroes unlimited, and would apply (in general) if said char ran into a place with actual schools.

I believe there was a mention in rifts japan about what is called in shadowrun "skillwires" basically an implant that you can socket skill manual chips into that allow you to do a skill by essentially reading the book on the process (through an eye implant or in brain screen equivalent) while attempting to perform the skill. you typically don't really know the actual skill, and I think the limitation is ~50-60% effective proficiency.

[say652]

Not sure if this is 100% legal.
At least for Rifts.

In hu2 you can go back to school to learn new SECONDARY skills. The base gets a bonus or negative depending on the quality of the place you learn.
I think 1 skill is 8 weeks 6 hours a day.

[boxee]

Yea the rules are too limited on what you can learn.

[Shark_Force]

So a Rogue Scholar can teach Arbitrary a secondary skill that presumably he is required to have on his list of acceptable skills by OCC, and that presumably the Rogue Scholar ALSO knows. And it takes 1d6+8 weeks, with 12 hours a week for the Scholar and 22 hours a week for Arbitrary.

Any other ideas? No limits here, so long as it is canon. Or at least canon-ish.

no requirement to have the secondary skill on the list for arbitrary. secondary skills as of RUE come from a specific list, and are available to any class regardless of their OCC skills.

are temporary methods acceptable (and if so, what duration is required), or does this need to be permanent knowledge gained?

[flatline]

If you want to learn to swim, find a teacher and practice until you have some sort of competency. This is how you do it in real life, so it should work in-game. Canon be damned.

-flatline

[cosmicfish]

no requirement to have the secondary skill on the list for arbitrary. secondary skills as of RUE come from a specific list, and are available to any class regardless of their OCC skills.

Good catch, I always forget that change!

are temporary methods acceptable (and if so, what duration is required), or does this need to be permanent knowledge gained?

Well, considering that this is a fishing expedition I'm not throwing anything back - I think most players would prefer permanent but temporary might work in certain circumstances.

[say652]

I support yhe heroes unlimited method.
Go train learn.
Better schools give better bonuses to base.

[cosmicfish]

So what are the methods for learning non-secondary skills? Is converting to a new OCC the only way to do so? And if so, how long does that take?

And what about unconventional means, such as magic or psionic or cybernetic or whatever?

[boxee]

Should be training, but not sure sorry.

[Chronicle]

phase world has a place where you can learn skills, just have to take your character out if play for a while

[SolCannibal]

Boot Camp, in Mercenary Adventures, just check it out.

[The Beast]

I support yhe heroes unlimited method.
Go train learn.
Better schools give better bonuses to base.

Yes, HU2 provides a means for gaining new skills.

[cosmicfish]

Boot Camp, in Mercenary Adventures, just check it out.

I know that gives skill and attribute bonuses, but I missed wherever it gave new skills and still can't find it!

[Killer Cyborg]

I support yhe heroes unlimited method.
Go train learn.
Better schools give better bonuses to base.

Yes, HU2 provides a means for gaining new skills.

BtS as well, I believe.

[ShadowLogan]

Well depending on the desired skill(s), you could get a tech device to handle the "skill". The obvious skills in this case are Language/Literacy, but a 'bot helper could also work (Tracking, Medical care, etc).

[Shark_Force]

are temporary methods acceptable (and if so, what duration is required), or does this need to be permanent knowledge gained?

Well, considering that this is a fishing expedition I'm not throwing anything back - I think most players would prefer permanent but temporary might work in certain circumstances.

in that case, necromantic magic can borrow skills from corpses as i recall (you may need to eat their brain or something like that), and the super psionic power mind bond can be used to swap skills. there is also iirc a spell in standard invocation magic that allows the caster to give someone else skills (though the caster loses access until it is returned).

[Tor]

In ultimate rifts rogue scholars can impart 2ndary skills i think.

Page 93 their first ("Storyteller and Teacher") ability, yup.

Not even any explicit limits there... Zombies and even Golems or Mummies can have a higher magical IQ than the lowest rolls of humans or sub-human races. Is there anything explicitly preventing a scholar from teaching these beings secondary skills?

Of course the Zombie's 7 (RUEp223) or Golem's 6 (RMBp188) or Mummy's 4 (RUEp222) would all result in skill penalties (RUEp282-283) with zombies being "a little slow" golems are "dim-witted" and mummies "feeble mind".

Also interesting to keep in mind if you have a Shifter and Scholar working together since a Shifter might keep a summoned supernatural being around long enough to learn skills from the Scholar.

[cosmicfish]

Well depending on the desired skill(s), you could get a tech device to handle the "skill". The obvious skills in this case are Language/Literacy, but a 'bot helper could also work (Tracking, Medical care, etc).

To clarify, though, I am looking for something that becomes intrinsic to the character, at least temporarily, rather than something that is picked up and put down.

[cosmicfish]

in that case, necromantic magic can borrow skills from corpses as i recall (you may need to eat their brain or something like that)

Yeah, but you have to be a necromancer yourself to do that, and the vast majority of the time, Arbitrary isn't. The method can be temporary or permanent but it cannot be dependent on the character being a particular OCC/RCC.

The reason I am asking this is I am considering a one-shot adventure inspired by the Megaversal Legion - the characters are all abducted and then "modified" to perform a particular task (in this case, a crime). I have not yet decided whether their modifications will be technological or magical or some combination, but as part of it I want to be able to give them some skills that they will need.

[eliakon]

One interesting trick that was used in one of my games may be of use to you.

A mind melter (lets call him Teachy) goes to class (rouge scholars and special schools) He then edits his own memories to remove all the 'non-learny bits' from those classes.

He then used Insert Memory to make other people think that they had attended those long classes......and since they think they had gone to those classes, and remembered all the lessons.....

Presto implanted skills.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Not sure if this is 100% legal.
At least for Rifts.

In hu2 you can go back to school to learn new SECONDARY skills. The base gets a bonus or negative depending on the quality of the place you learn.
I think 1 skill is 8 weeks 6 hours a day.

(replying to all mentions of HU ed)
The HU1, HU2, BTS1 education rules do not canonly apply to rifts. A GM may import them for their personal game as a house rule.

It would only be applicable in societies where they have an education system that has an ed system like we have today. Even that might be limited by the baieses of the society. i.e. no DBs...no females...no Romany....no not the right class....no etc...no etc...

The merc town boot camp was mentioned....this option is also a limited availability option. Both in respect to geographically and to employment status.

[RiftJunkie]

WB13 Lone Star, page 97. Special Human Traits & Abilities Table: 68%-74% Insatiable Desire to Learn. Allows character to learn one new secondary skill every other level. Or, skills from any category (even ones not in the OCC) and three extra skills but all skills get no bonuses and are treated as secondary skills.

[drewkitty ~..~]

WB13 Lone Star, page 97. Special Human Traits & Abilities Table: 68%-74% Insatiable Desire to Learn. Allows character to learn one new secondary skill every other level. Or, skills from any category (even ones not in the OCC) and three extra skills but all skills get no bonuses and are treated as secondary skills.

Yes, it does let a char get more then the normal amount of skills, but that is a starting condition of a char's nature, not something that can be acquired later.

[RiftJunkie]

WB13 Lone Star, page 97. Special Human Traits & Abilities Table: 68%-74% Insatiable Desire to Learn. Allows character to learn one new secondary skill every other level. Or, skills from any category (even ones not in the OCC) and three extra skills but all skills get no bonuses and are treated as secondary skills.

Yes, it does let a char get more then the normal amount of skills, but that is a starting condition of a char's nature, not something that can be acquired later.

"Latent Abilities"?

[ShadowLogan]

Well depending on the desired skill(s), you could get a tech device to handle the "skill". The obvious skills in this case are Language/Literacy, but a 'bot helper could also work (Tracking, Medical care, etc).

To clarify, though, I am looking for something that becomes intrinsic to the character, at least temporarily, rather than something that is picked up and put down.

"Instil Knowledge" Spell. Pg108 BoM there are a few issues:
-duration 1/2hr per level (it is one the few spells that is noted that can't be cancelled early)
-caster temporarily loses said knowledge (actually just a huge penalty)

Duration will require a high level, and maybe even cast on Ley Line/Nexus to get improved duration. Energize Spell (IIRC) could also be a big help. TW granted could also be another way to work around the time limit.

Soul Harvesting (Nxyla's Harvester pg19 WB12)

Mind Bleeder's "Bled Skills" Psi-Power (pg45 of WB12, likely also found in WB4). Requires access to Mind Bleeder powers (few), and duration is more limited compared to "Instil Knowledge". And it requires a target with said skill.

Psi Power of Telemechanics can cover some skills. Requires the person to have Telemechanics though.

[Tor]

WB13 Lone Star, page 97. Special Human Traits & Abilities Table: 68%-74% Insatiable Desire to Learn. Allows character to learn one new secondary skill every other level. Or, skills from any category (even ones not in the OCC) and three extra skills but all skills get no bonuses and are treated as secondary skills.

Yes, it does let a char get more then the normal amount of skills, but that is a starting condition of a char's nature, not something that can be acquired later.

Along those lines...

per RUE p 282 if you have a low IQ you get bonus secondary skills, though it's in exchange for OCCrelated/other skills...
*7or8 gain 1d4 secondary (lose half related)
*5or6 gain 1d4+2 secondary (lose half related and 4 OCC skills)
*3or4 gain 1d4 secondary+4 more as you level up (lose all but 1d4 related, none as you level, 1/2 OCC skills)

Since it says the secondaries are gained to your 'initial set' I think that'd only appliy if you were born low IQ as opposed to having it lowered via brain damage. Not sure if that means brain-damage are exempt from losing their OCC Related due to lack of tradeoff or if they still lose them.

Altogether it's not the best tradeoff. But if you go based on max-roll, in the 7or8 if you picked an OCC which gave very few OCC related skills (say only 4 or 6) then you could gain 4 secondaries for 2 or 3 related, which might be advantageous.

[drewkitty ~..~]

WB13 Lone Star, page 97. Special Human Traits & Abilities Table: 68%-74% Insatiable Desire to Learn. Allows character to learn one new secondary skill every other level. Or, skills from any category (even ones not in the OCC) and three extra skills but all skills get no bonuses and are treated as secondary skills.

Yes, it does let a char get more then the normal amount of skills, but that is a starting condition of a char's nature, not something that can be acquired later.

"Latent Abilities"?

That would be a GM modification, thus outside of canon.

[Blue_Lion]

Time-according to the cutting room floor the school options from HU is official for rifts.
Experience-leveling up can grant skills
Magic-there is a spell to grant skill temporary.
Psionic-some powers can temporary give you skill for something like telamechanics.
Superpowers-some super powers may allow you to borrow another skill or work without a skill.
Racial ability-some races have abilities that allow them to gain skills.
Cyber implants-Mind works has implants that grant skills.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Time-according to the cutting room floor the school options from HU is official for rifts.
....snip

Which part outside of the FAQ says this? (asking for link thread to referenced)

[Blue_Lion]

Time-according to the cutting room floor the school options from HU is official for rifts.
....snip

Which part outside of the FAQ says this? (asking for link thread to referenced)

Thread refers to forum post. I was not referring to a forum post, but part of PB home page.

I gave directions to a official source off the web page home not the posting of a users opinion.
In addition the idea behind the PB megaverseral system is that unless a rule conflicts with the current setting it is valid across all the system.

So I say RPG Raptor Shark.....

Your request is invalid and irrelevant.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Time-according to the cutting room floor the school options from HU is official for rifts.
....snip

Which part outside of the FAQ says this? (asking for link thread to referenced)

Thread refers to forum post. I was not referring to a forum post, but part of PB home page.

I gave directions to a official source off the web page home not the posting of a users opinion.
In addition the idea behind the PB megaverseral system is that unless a rule conflicts with the current setting it is valid across all the system.

So I say RPG Raptor Shark.....

Your request is invalid and irrelevant.

No, you did not in this topic post where it is in the CRF said text was, and there are multiple links in the CRF to different things.
You said they were in the cutting room floor.......I was asking and reapeats the request Where in the cutting room floor, outside the FAQ, did you find the text you are referencing?
Yes, it matters if the text is in or outside the FAQ, because the FAQ is Not Canon.
If you cannot support said assertion then it is thrown out as a HR w/o supporting text.
-----------------------------

Sorry If the rules are not in that setting's gamebooks they are not canon for that setting. This is unless there is specific text saying to use said rules. Like how RUE states to use the PFRPG changing class rules.

Yes, other setting rules are easily importable by a game's GM (the meaning of megavercial, yes, this has been argued out before in other topics). That they have to be imported by GM's that makes other setting rules non-canon for that setting.

[Blue_Lion]

Time-according to the cutting room floor the school options from HU is official for rifts.
....snip

Which part outside of the FAQ says this? (asking for link thread to referenced)

Thread refers to forum post. I was not referring to a forum post, but part of PB home page.

I gave directions to a official source off the web page home not the posting of a users opinion.
In addition the idea behind the PB megaverseral system is that unless a rule conflicts with the current setting it is valid across all the system.

So I say RPG Raptor Shark.....

Your request is invalid and irrelevant.

There are multiple links in the CRF to different things.
You said they were in the cutting room floor.......I was asking Where in the cutting room floor, outside the FAQ, did you find the text you are referencing?
Yes, it matters if the text is in or outside the FAQ, because the FAQ is Not Canon.
If you cannot support said assertion then it is thrown out of consideration as it is a HR w/o supporting text. (you could just quote yourself to repost them.....)
-----------------------------

Sorry If the rules are not in that setting's gamebooks they are not canon for that setting. This is unless there is specific text saying to use said rules. Like how RUE states to use the PFRPG changing class rules.

Yes, other setting rules are easily importable by a game's GM (the meaning of megavercial, yes, this has been argued out before in other topics). That they have to be imported by GM's that makes other setting rules non-canon for that setting.

RPG Raptor Shark...

Your arugument is irrelvent.
It is the core concept of the megaversal system supported by the FaQ that was put out one time as official.
You are building a straw man defense to say that it not the way it works.


Let me ask you this Where does it say the FaQ in the cutting room floor page is not cannon?
Where does it say the rules that do not conflict are not cannon in rifts? (PB has the idea that all there games are suppose to be mostly compatible with the rules caring over with tweeks to the individual settings need.)

[drewkitty ~..~]

As I said the argument about how mecaversality works was in another topic. Not here.

An assertion unsupported by canon is a house rule.

It had been let known that FAQ was to be non-canon even before RUE was published.

[Blue_Lion]

As I said the argument about how mecaversality works was in another topic. Not here.

An assertion unsupported by canon is a house rule.

RPG Raptor shark

Your argument is irrelevant.(not to mention you have no official backing. Just you think that it has to be in a rifts book to be cannon.)

The Megaversal system, sometimes known as the Palladium system, is a set of mechanics specifically employed in most role-playing games published by Palladium Books, with the exception of Recon.

(I find it funny that you are straight up saying that the system does not work that way bringing it into this topic then saying it is not to be discussed here. When you started it here.)

But hey do not meet my request to provide where they say the games that are in theory suppose to be combatable and rifts is suppose to draw from all them are not official sources for each other. In the case here the rule that you can learn skills by school. If you are going to claim it is not official in this thread you must be able to prove it in this thread.

[cosmicfish]

Do you guys want to take your argument about what is and is not canon to another thread? This does not seem productive here.