Enhanced Leaping Speed?

[LostOne]

Has anyone considered that if a character with Enhanced Leaping (minor power, Powers Unlimited 1) can leap great distances across with a single leap, then leap again as soon as they land, repeat as needed, they can cover a great distance in a short time? Much faster than their speed attribute if they don't have some kind of power enhanced speed. Has anyone calculated speeds for this? I might have been able to do it in high school but these days I don't remember the numbers and formulas I'd need and was hoping someone could do it with minimal effort. Basically it comes down to: how long is the character airborn over that distance? I'd love to see it broken down to the point where you plug in the distance jumped (since it will vary based on what level of strength the super hero has, supernatural, superhuman, etc), multiply by some number/fraction and end up with MPH (assuming the character kept it up for an hour). This would also make it easy to know for sure if the character can safely jump on a moving vehicle or if the vehicle is too fast to catch, etc.

[Pepsi Jedi]

One of my current characters has this, so I had the book open today when verifying that supernatural str, resulted in bigger leaps.

At the end of the power, past the distance traveled and what not it gives a flat bonus of +6 to speed.

That could be taken two ways.

1) That the jumps have 'hang time' and if you're using the leap to flat out move, (Horizontally) at speed, that you move at your base speed+6. Hang time factored in.
After all when we -run- we actually are leaping, both our feet are off the ground and we sail through the air. Just not very far before the next foot hits and propells us again.

or

2) That the enhanced leaping, by it's nature of strengthening the legs TO leap, means that you just run at spd+6, and the leaps are totally separate of that.

Either are viable, and would depend on your GM's interpretation. With out trying to convert anything, the 'long distance leaping speedy travel' is used by at least one 'A list' super hero. You can see him do it in one of the movies. His is even more impressive, seeming to travel 5, 10, 20 miles at a jump due to his immense strength.

My own char has a supernatural PS of 46 and that translates to 1840ft for a horizontal leap (As per HU rules) That's very impressive for jump distance, but is a little over a third of a mile. Not quite the 5, 10 or 20, we see in the movies.

Your question is a viable one, but gets into a bit more math than I want to do. You're basicly asking are the leaps SUPER FAST! ZING ZING ZING! implying that (Just using my char for an example) leaping 1840ft, per action? 1action=1leap=1840ft. My char has 8 actions per melee, so if the 1 action= 1 leap, then she could move 14,720 feet per round. So 2.79miles per melee. With supernatural strength you fatigue slower... .so...... that would factor out to, 2.79 per melee X4 for 11.5 miles per minute, so she'd be moving at 669mph. That's faster than extraordinary speed, to the tune of three times faster than extraordinary speed at first level.

Conversely if we do the math on her running speed... sp of 41= 205m per melee, 820m per minute. One meter is 3.28 feet so, 2689 feet per minute. 161,376 feet per hour, or roughly 30.56mph

Now she does not have the extraordinary speed power, but 30.6 mph is alot less than 669. If 1 leap=1 action, my char can motor along at 22 times faster than she can flat out run. That's not representive of the +6 to speed.

Now my char DOES have a large number of actions. (She's a demon, they start with a bunch but don't rise much after start)

Even if you gave her half as many actions. 4 (Roughly most people's starting number* She'd still come out at 334.5mph, and 11 times running speed, jumping.

That's alot of words to say, that... if you do the MATH, enhanced leaping, has the possibility to be absurdly fast. Speed of sound is 761mph (At sea-level, give or take) So my char, is only 90mph or so from breaking the sound barrier with it working that way.

Which is NEAT... but I don't think that's how the power is 'meant' to work.

Your GM can call it how they want, but there's the numbers to look at and make a call.

[wyrmraker]

We had a GM who trie to rule that a character with Enhanced Leaping would land the next action. That lasted until my own character (dedicated brick, SNPS 107) leaped out of a crowd of enemies, and I asked the GM how far the crowd was blown back from the sonic boom of my character's departure. After that, he ruled that Enhanced Leaping speed was equal to twice the usual running speed.

[The Artist Formerly]

We had a GM who trie to rule that a character with Enhanced Leaping would land the next action. That lasted until my own character (dedicated brick, SNPS 107) leaped out of a crowd of enemies, and I asked the GM how far the crowd was blown back from the sonic boom of my character's departure. After that, he ruled that Enhanced Leaping speed was equal to twice the usual running speed.

Well, that's a thing. I would agree with the 2x your running speed rule for figuring distance/time ratio. Palladium can get bogged down in small rules, so that's pretty good way to handle it.

[Malakai]

In all actuality, if you wanted to get into the calculations, you are looking at serious hang-time:

Consider the optimum jumping angle is 45 degrees, gaining you the greatest distance. This can kind of be matched when you look at the fact that vertical leaping distance is half the horizontal, so if you were to draw this out in an arc, it would perfectly form a half-circle, with you reaching the apex mid-way in your jump. this is important, because it helps us figure out the next part

namely, how long does it take you to fall? that's a constant (assuming no gravity-manipulators are interfering) - your position can be tracked by in terms of meters per second with 4.9(t)^2, or 16.1(t)^2 if you want it in feet. Here, we set that equal to your vertical limit (half you long jump), and that tells you how many seconds it takes to hit the ground from your half-way point. Now double it, because it would take you just as long, with gravity working against you, to reach the top - and that's how long it takes to complete 1 jump - for you SNPS leapers, it could take a LONG TIME. I'll give some examples below:

Normal PS of 20 - 5 seconds of air time for a 200 foot jump = equal to a speed of 40
Ext PS of 30 - 7.5 seconds of air time for a 450 foot jump = equal to a speed of 60
SHPS of 40 - 11.1 seconds of air time for a 1,000 foot jump = equal to a speed of 90
SNPS of 60 - 17.3 seconds of air time for a 2,400 foot jump = equal to a speed of 139, approximately 94 mph
SNPS of 200 - 31.5 seconds of air time for a 8,000 foot jump = equal to a speed of 254, approximately 173 mph

I had a metal man in my heroes game with a SNPS in the 90's and enhanced leap - we called him wrecking ball, for obvious reasons

[Pepsi Jedi]

That's assuming you jump in a high arc. You can jump in a shallower one and travel a greater horizontal distance.
As I pointed out, running is basicly a continuing series of shallow jumps. Both your feet leave the ground and you move through the air for a moment.

I know if I were a super hero I wouldn't be bounding around at pervect 45 degree angles and flinging myself high into the air every time I jumped. I'd be jumping 'Forward' vs "high'

(The difference between... a long jump, and a high jump).

Shallow jumps could be done, it's a super power, your super powered legs propel you forward at speed. The distance depends on your GM and their determination of how many 'actions' a jump takes. Then you simply plug it into your actions per melee.

[Malakai]

Shallow jumps won't be better for you - less height equals less air time. When you jump, your on a ballistic trajectory, and angles above and below 45 degrees cut your maximum range, either by being too shallow and hitting the ground early, or not going forward enough relative to your height. In fact, artillery use this fact to be able to shoot multiple rounds to hit the same target at the same time, from the same gun, by first going in a high arc, then using the flatter trajectory, say a 70 degree and then a 20 degree. As you can see from above, the more air time you get, the better your speed, so you want to stay in the air as much as possible, unless your running speed is already better, then no need to jump. Also, long jumping depends more on initial velocity - the reason for the shallower angle of departure there is to not break the stride of the runner - a 45 degree departure would be ideal if they didn't have to worry about this.

[LostOne]

Malakai,

That is the start I needed, thank you!

[Pepsi Jedi]

Shallow jumps won't be better for you - less height equals less air time. When you jump, your on a ballistic trajectory, and angles above and below 45 degrees cut your maximum range, either by being too shallow and hitting the ground early, or not going forward enough relative to your height. In fact, artillery use this fact to be able to shoot multiple rounds to hit the same target at the same time, from the same gun, by first going in a high arc, then using the flatter trajectory, say a 70 degree and then a 20 degree. As you can see from above, the more air time you get, the better your speed, so you want to stay in the air as much as possible, unless your running speed is already better, then no need to jump. Also, long jumping depends more on initial velocity - the reason for the shallower angle of departure there is to not break the stride of the runner - a 45 degree departure would be ideal if they didn't have to worry about this.

You're missing the point. Or rather hitting it from the back end.

Shallower jumps at 'Higher' speeds would be better. These are super powers. Noone says you have to leap and soar through the air like a lofty bunny on a casual hop. If you have super leaping it's SUPER leaping. You could leap forward very fast vs up up up over over over, down down down.

Your example of artillery actually proves my point.

Take this example. Pitcher on the mound throwing to the catcher at home base.

He could throw at your 45 degree angle. "underhand" Loft the ball up up up and then down down down til the catcher catches it in that high arching throw. Ball gets from point A (Pitcher) to point B (Catcher.) It has to leave the pitcher's hand, fly up up up and then arc and come down down down.

Now, same pitcher takes the ball and throws it as a fast ball. There's still going to be some arc to it but much shallower. Much faster. ball moves the same lateral distance from point A to point B, but at a much higher rate of speed, and in fact less overall 'travel' as it doesn't have to move as far vertically up and then down.

Both balls started at the same place. Both ended at the same place. Both traveled the same horizontal distance.

The first one used your high jumping arc.
The second used a much shallower but faster arc.

If I'm a super hero, and I'm moving for ---distance--- and ---speed--- (Which is what this 'thread's about')

I'm not going to do the underhanded high in the air throw (Jump) I'm going to do the fast ball.(Jump)

and that's my point. Super leaping=super legs. Instead of jumping way up and having long hang times you could jump 'forward' faster and get to where you're going alot more efficiently.

[LostOne]

If I'm a super hero, and I'm moving for ---distance--- and ---speed--- (Which is what this 'thread's about')

Actually the thread is about the math. While I didn't state it my end goal is to create a spreadsheet where you plug in the number of attacks and the PS attribute, what kind of strength they have (normal, extraordinary, superhuman or supernatural) and it spits out max MPH using jumps as well as breaks down distances you can cover in one attack, one melee, etc.

So please, I'd love to see the math if you can provide it. I'm working under the assumption that a character with PS of X capable of jumping a max distance as stated in the power, is only capable of so much force to start the jump. So for max distance of a jump you're looking at a golden angle to jump at, it is essentially ballistic trajectories for max distance. But if you think shorter jumps at a shallower angle more frequently would produce better results, I'd love to see some math on it. It's beyond my abilities since I haven't taken a math or physics class in 15 years and it's gotten really rusty.

[Malakai]

Shallow jumps won't be better for you - less height equals less air time. When you jump, your on a ballistic trajectory, and angles above and below 45 degrees cut your maximum range, either by being too shallow and hitting the ground early, or not going forward enough relative to your height. In fact, artillery use this fact to be able to shoot multiple rounds to hit the same target at the same time, from the same gun, by first going in a high arc, then using the flatter trajectory, say a 70 degree and then a 20 degree. As you can see from above, the more air time you get, the better your speed, so you want to stay in the air as much as possible, unless your running speed is already better, then no need to jump. Also, long jumping depends more on initial velocity - the reason for the shallower angle of departure there is to not break the stride of the runner - a 45 degree departure would be ideal if they didn't have to worry about this.

You're missing the point. Or rather hitting it from the back end.

Shallower jumps at 'Higher' speeds would be better. These are super powers. Noone says you have to leap and soar through the air like a lofty bunny on a casual hop. If you have super leaping it's SUPER leaping. You could leap forward very fast vs up up up over over over, down down down.

Your example of artillery actually proves my point.

Take this example. Pitcher on the mound throwing to the catcher at home base.

He could throw at your 45 degree angle. "underhand" Loft the ball up up up and then down down down til the catcher catches it in that high arching throw. Ball gets from point A (Pitcher) to point B (Catcher.) It has to leave the pitcher's hand, fly up up up and then arc and come down down down.

Now, same pitcher takes the ball and throws it as a fast ball. There's still going to be some arc to it but much shallower. Much faster. ball moves the same lateral distance from point A to point B, but at a much higher rate of speed, and in fact less overall 'travel' as it doesn't have to move as far vertically up and then down.

Both balls started at the same place. Both ended at the same place. Both traveled the same horizontal distance.

The first one used your high jumping arc.
The second used a much shallower but faster arc.

If I'm a super hero, and I'm moving for ---distance--- and ---speed--- (Which is what this 'thread's about')

I'm not going to do the underhanded high in the air throw (Jump) I'm going to do the fast ball.(Jump)

and that's my point. Super leaping=super legs. Instead of jumping way up and having long hang times you could jump 'forward' faster and get to where you're going alot more efficiently.

Your example is flawed because in neither case is the pitcher going for distance - a pitcher wants speed over a relatively short distance. if you go back over my previous post, I said as much when referencing the artillery - a shallower angle will get you to a point quicker, but it won't be as far as you could go in a single jump - you sacrifice range for speed. to better describe, the 70 degree and 20 degree angle shots will get to the same place, and the 20 degree angle one will get there much faster, but that place is well before the maximum range of the gun.

Going back to baseball, you notice that the outfielders throw in a much higher arc, yes? because they need to to get the longer distance - a shallow throw for them means the ball hits the ground. Also notice how they will throw over someone else if they can manage it reliably? because one single throw will go faster than throw-catch-throw-catch. With jumping, it would be the same - you would take more time doing shorter, shallower jumps than one long one. A look back to the original examples would tell you as much, as the speed greatly increases the longer you are in the air. If you look at that trend alone, you can tell that air time is your best way of getting speed - each time you land and jump again is time spent not flying through the air from your previous jump, regardless of your take-off angle.

Any example of an object thrown or shot for distance is going to go toward that 45 degree angle. Unless you can physically outrun that throw or shot (which, for non-bullets, anyone with Extraordinary speed can), following that example is your fastest way of getting from one point to another. 45 degrees is the break point (not counting air resistance) at which point you have both optimal energy going forward AND going up to keep you in the air longer to let that initial burst carry you farther.

Nothing about Enhanced leaping implies that the actual landing and jumping goes any faster than normal, only that you jump with more initial energy, thus sending you farther. Any minor benefit for stronger leg muscles while running is already reflected in the speed bonus listed. But, considering the small amount that is, unless something is artificially inflating your speed attribute, you would go further, faster, by leaping through the air in great leaps than by multiple small leaps, where landing and jumping over and over again would take away time from you soaring through the air.

To say that shallower jumps are better, you would have to land, reset, and jump again at least 40% faster than you actually move through the air in the first place: If you can move that fast, then why are you jumping at all?

[Stone Gargoyle]

I would think that jumping at higher arcs would take longer than jumping at shallow arcs, simply because of the time spent in the air. You're not going to fall faster by jumping higher.

[Malakai]

I would think that jumping at higher arcs would take longer than jumping at shallow arcs, simply because of the time spent in the air. You're not going to fall faster by jumping higher.

But you move through the air faster, even while going in that arc. I'll see if I can break it down in numbers:

Static numbers:
Gravity = 16.1(t)^2
Jump Velocity = J

Variable:
Take-off angle, Θ
Reset Factor, RZ - This is how long it take to land and then jump again (R) times the number of times need for a given distance (Z)

Goal:
Fastest speed

Equations: the first charts you x-position in respect to time, t; the second charts your y-position with respect to time, t
X(t)=J*cosΘ*(t)+RZ
Y(t)=-16.1(t)^2+J*sinΘ*(t)

Now, each time Y(t) hits 0, Z=Z+1, so the more you land, the greater the reset factor is going to eat into your speed

Let's take one of the examples above, the SN PS of 60: we get 2400 feet with 17.3 seconds of airtime and an equivalent ground speed of 139 feet per second. This was calculated with a 45 degree take-off angle. the equation would thus look like

2400 = J*cos(45)*17.3+0, as there were not intermediate landings.

solving for J, we get an initial jump velocity of 196.2 feet per second. We can then use this value to look at other angles and see if they perform better or worse. We want to beat 139, which should seem reasonable, considering we are starting with 196.2 - a 57 foot-per-second difference. but let's take a look at how those shallower jumps and multiple landings play out

in order to find out how far we go, we need to find out how high we go, so we know how long we are in the air before landing and doing it again. So,
0 = -16.1(t)^2+196.2*sinΘ*(t)

Who remembers the quadratic formula? THIS GUY!
:::Lots of math:::
t=6 seconds, so for a 30 degree departure, he's airborne for 6 seconds. How far does he get with that?

X(t) = 196.2*cos(30)*6 = 1019.5 feet, which means he's gone less than half the distance before he hits the ground (which averages to a speed of 170, halfway between the max initial velocity and the average speed of our longest jump - see how it gets cut down?). He would need 2.35 of these jumps to go 2400 feet, which puts it at 14.1 seconds of airtime alone, PLUS land, reset, and jump twice more. Which means if he can do those in 1.6 seconds, he's JUST BREAKING EVEN with his single long jump. Lower angles will only make it worse.

Results: We are talking overland speed, presumably going for miles at a time. Under such a scenario, longer leaps will be better than multiple ones. the only time shallower-angle leaps will win out is for distances where you would get to the target in 1 jump regardless of angle.

[Pepsi Jedi]

If I'm a super hero, and I'm moving for ---distance--- and ---speed--- (Which is what this 'thread's about')

Actually the thread is about the math. While I didn't state it my end goal is to create a spreadsheet where you plug in the number of attacks and the PS attribute, what kind of strength they have (normal, extraordinary, superhuman or supernatural) and it spits out max MPH using jumps as well as breaks down distances you can cover in one attack, one melee, etc.

So please, I'd love to see the math if you can provide it. I'm working under the assumption that a character with PS of X capable of jumping a max distance as stated in the power, is only capable of so much force to start the jump. So for max distance of a jump you're looking at a golden angle to jump at, it is essentially ballistic trajectories for max distance. But if you think shorter jumps at a shallower angle more frequently would produce better results, I'd love to see some math on it. It's beyond my abilities since I haven't taken a math or physics class in 15 years and it's gotten really rusty.

Really? The title says 'leaping speed'.

For which the math has been given, depending on how the GM dictates the action/jump, above.

It's a super power. You don't have to leap at' golden angle' to acheive maximum distance as 'super strength' can over power angles when it comes to such things. The examples above prove this.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Shallow jumps won't be better for you - less height equals less air time. When you jump, your on a ballistic trajectory, and angles above and below 45 degrees cut your maximum range, either by being too shallow and hitting the ground early, or not going forward enough relative to your height. In fact, artillery use this fact to be able to shoot multiple rounds to hit the same target at the same time, from the same gun, by first going in a high arc, then using the flatter trajectory, say a 70 degree and then a 20 degree. As you can see from above, the more air time you get, the better your speed, so you want to stay in the air as much as possible, unless your running speed is already better, then no need to jump. Also, long jumping depends more on initial velocity - the reason for the shallower angle of departure there is to not break the stride of the runner - a 45 degree departure would be ideal if they didn't have to worry about this.

You're missing the point. Or rather hitting it from the back end.

Shallower jumps at 'Higher' speeds would be better. These are super powers. Noone says you have to leap and soar through the air like a lofty bunny on a casual hop. If you have super leaping it's SUPER leaping. You could leap forward very fast vs up up up over over over, down down down.

Your example of artillery actually proves my point.

Take this example. Pitcher on the mound throwing to the catcher at home base.

He could throw at your 45 degree angle. "underhand" Loft the ball up up up and then down down down til the catcher catches it in that high arching throw. Ball gets from point A (Pitcher) to point B (Catcher.) It has to leave the pitcher's hand, fly up up up and then arc and come down down down.

Now, same pitcher takes the ball and throws it as a fast ball. There's still going to be some arc to it but much shallower. Much faster. ball moves the same lateral distance from point A to point B, but at a much higher rate of speed, and in fact less overall 'travel' as it doesn't have to move as far vertically up and then down.

Both balls started at the same place. Both ended at the same place. Both traveled the same horizontal distance.

The first one used your high jumping arc.
The second used a much shallower but faster arc.

If I'm a super hero, and I'm moving for ---distance--- and ---speed--- (Which is what this 'thread's about')

I'm not going to do the underhanded high in the air throw (Jump) I'm going to do the fast ball.(Jump)

and that's my point. Super leaping=super legs. Instead of jumping way up and having long hang times you could jump 'forward' faster and get to where you're going alot more efficiently.

Your example is flawed because in neither case is the pitcher going for distance - a pitcher wants speed over a relatively short distance.

The OP isn't 'How far can you jump" we have that stipulated by the power. It's jusing said jumps.... -for speed- as a means of travel.

if you go back over my previous post, I said as much when referencing the artillery - a shallower angle will get you to a point quicker, but it won't be as far as you could go in a single jump - you sacrifice range for speed. to better describe, the 70 degree and 20 degree angle shots will get to the same place, and the 20 degree angle one will get there much faster, but that place is well before the maximum range of the gun

And yet my example above still holds true. Just like the pitcher doesn't have to arc the ball high through the air, he can zig it straight on in there. The "super hero" doesn't have to ark 'himself' high through the air, if he can just sing on in there.

Going back to baseball, you notice that the outfielders throw in a much higher arc, yes?

Because they don't possess the strength to throw it 'straight' and get it there as fast. As a superhero with a superpower you're not constrained in that fashion.

because they need to to get the longer distance - a shallow throw for them means the ball hits the ground.

But superman could throw it with the shallower throw because he's using a super power to do so.

Also notice how they will throw over someone else if they can manage it reliably? because one single throw will go faster than throw-catch-throw-catch.

Sometimes, but again they're not using super powers to overcome such limitations.

With jumping, it would be the same - you would take more time doing shorter, shallower jumps than one long one.

Nothing in the rules stipulates that the shallower jump need be shorter. Just like superman could throw a 'shallow' pitch from a mile out and have it go just fine, a person with superjumping could do the same, i.e. jump 'shallower' but faster.

A look back to the original examples would tell you as much, as the speed greatly increases the longer you are in the air. If you look at that trend alone, you can tell that air time is your best way of getting speed - each time you land and jump again is time spent not flying through the air from your previous jump, regardless of your take-off angle.

But HU rules aren't real life. It doesn't take you 'time' to perform your actions any more or less. It depends on how long your GM says a jump takes. if one jump equals one action then yes you're zoming along at a lower angle at a higher speed. You're the pitcher throwing the ball straighter and 'harder' vs arching it up and then down.

Any example of an object thrown or shot for distance is going to go toward that 45 degree angle.

Doesn't have to be just because you say so. If someone's stronger, they can throw at a shallower angle. A little league pitcher trying to throw to home plate will need a higher arc than a major league pitcher.

Unless you can physically outrun that throw or shot (which, for non-bullets, anyone with Extraordinary speed can), following that example is your fastest way of getting from one point to another. 45 degrees is the break point (not counting air resistance) at which point you have both optimal energy going forward AND going up to keep you in the air longer to let that initial burst carry you farther.

Nothing about Enhanced leaping implies that the actual landing and jumping goes any faster than normal,

Nothing implies how long the 'jump' takes at all.

only that you jump with more initial energy, thus sending you farther. Any minor benefit for stronger leg muscles while running is already reflected in the speed bonus listed. But, considering the small amount that is, unless something is artificially inflating your speed attribute, you would go further, faster, by leaping through the air in great leaps than by multiple small leaps, where landing and jumping over and over again would take away time from you soaring through the air.

I'm not saying you take 5 jumps to make the same distance. I'm saying as written, the jumps could be 1 jump per action, thus you get your max distance per jump, no matter how you're jumping. Thus I'm not going to fling myself up up up and down down down every time. The 'distance' travled is static (it's stipulated in the power) the 'hang time' is not.

To say that shallower jumps are better, you would have to land, reset, and jump again at least 40% faster than you actually move through the air in the first place: If you can move that fast, then why are you jumping at all?

Short version "Superpowers don't stick with real world physics."

Longer version "Shallower jumps are better for traveling at speed, if the distance is equal between shallow or higher jumps.

The power doesn't give hang times or anything. It just says your jump goes ______ Far.

It all depends on how your GM rules a jump. If 1 leap=1 action as it would seem, your speed is your maximum jump distance X your number of actions per melee. An easy equasion to work out.

If one tries to factor in hang time and what not vs distance then one has to attribute jumps to longer than one action and the math gets quite a bit deeper.

While you're at it are you working out the physics of energy expulsion? I mean you seem to want to be VERY VERY VERY EXACTING in jumping. I'm curious as to the physics of energy expulsion Energy. How many calories are used up per energy blast. What about fire? Or Ice, as that's actual a physical manifestation, is it more or less than energy. How about energy expulsion darkness or shadow, or void bolts. How many calories does your hero have to consume to have the 'energy' in his form to produce that energy out put?

Now that seems a bit humorous, but it's to make a point. Super powers don't work by real world physics laws. They're super powers and are out side the laws. Just like superman trying to catch a falling plane, wouldn't work as his little itty bitty hands would punch holes in the body of the plane he was trying to save, or how he can't pick up an ocean liner, because the points he'd grip would just rip off the boat, super powers work because they're 'super powers'.

[Malakai]

::snip:: super powers work because they're 'super powers'.

I think that's an accurate summary of your points, made above. I'll address a couple smaller things before tackling this main issue

First: In regards to a shallower - and, yes, necessarily shorter - jump being faster than a farthest-distance-possible one, that was already mentions above: it's faster - if it's only one jump. Since the original poster was talking about overland movement - and specifically mentions hang-times, formulas, and calculations needed to figure it out, it would be reasonable to assume they are looking for more than just distance x actions.

Second: Every example you are giving about "such and such person could do it at a shallower angle because of greater [X]" is missing the point above: obviously if they are stronger, they could go a fixed distance at a shallower angle, but that's not the FULL distance they COULD have gone. Just like the stronger character taking a shallower jump to reach a closer spot, none of the examples you give show the stronger character actually using their full potential for both speed AND distance.

::sigh::

On to the main issue "because they're super powers": Yes, they are. And to a certain degree they are going to break physics in their use. But such breaks should be only to the degree necessary for the power to function as listed. I'm not questioning where the energy to lift a quite-possibly half ton metal man and launch him 2/3rds of a mile through the air is coming from - the ability to do so is implied in the power. But I also don't assume that his ability to jump really far means that gravity suddenly stops working, either. It's called enhanced leaping, not flight. It tells us how that character is different from every other character, giving us his maximum jumping distances. It even makes a point to mention he leaps so far because of his strength, so you know that it isn't some gravity-manipulation power.

What does this power tell us? He can leap a given distance for a given amount of strength. No where does it mentions any number of actions they would take. You assume 1, but it's not mentioned, as you like to point out. I would say they left that number out because, depending on how far you actually went would determine how many actions it would take due to air time. He jumps farther because of a greater level of strength. That is what is stated. Everything else about jumping doesn't change because he gets stronger, it just uses bigger-than-normal numbers. All the formulas stay the same. Ignoring them leads to equally absurd suggestions like the one you mentioned:

'super strength' can over power angles when it comes to such things

Really? What are you trying to say with this? That with an appropriate level of strength, a character can the laws that govern the universe and bend them to their will? Can they punch the universe if don't get their way? What's the SDC for the laws of physics? Let's take a look at that line of thinking:

GM: A plane is flying at 30,000 ft in the air about a mile south of you when it sudden breaks open, spilling people into the air
PC: Well, as a 15th level hero with sonic flight, tentacles, and supernatural strength, I fly over and catch as many as I can carry
GM: You can't catch a single one - they all fall to their doom.
PC: WHAT!?!?!?!
GM: Well, being a Martial Artist - with Boxing - and sonic flight, you have 9 actions. At 700 MPH (per sonic flight), you can only get just over 1700 feet in one action, which is only a third of a mile. Because the book doesn't say how long it takes to fall, I have to figure it's only a single action. They're all doomed
PC: Dagnabit! I grab gravity and twist it into a pretzel!
GM: Roll to strike . . . . . . .

Yes, an absurd example, to answer an equally absurd response. You want to say that it takes a single action to reach a given distance with Enhanced Leaping, no matter what the distance? Let's explore what that looks like. I'm going to set a bench mark of 700 miles per hour, since that is the limit for Sonic Speed, a Major Power. Lets see what it takes to get there
SNPS of 77 - high, but easily within reach - & 5 attacks per melee (easily doable at first level) - that's all it takes to jump at Mach speed with Enhanced leaping. By all rights, there should be a sonic boom created each time such a character jumps.
How about other PS scores and Attacks per melee?
65 and 6 attacks = BOOM!
55 and 7 attacks = BOOM!
49 and 8 attacks = BOOM!
43 and 9 attacks = BOOM!

Looking at this - I don't think it was ever the intent of the writers to say that such leaps would be completed in a single action. Nor should it be anyone's intent to rule in such a way. Using such a ruling does a disservice to the very concept of speedsters and the powers meant to embody them: Sonic-flight-thief flying away? Bob the brick can easily catch him by jumping. Captain Wonder-bolt, with a half-dozen speed-related powers, including Sonic Speed, needs to catch the bad guy? Sorry, fella, but that's the Green Meanie, The big dumb brick who's only travel power is the minor power Enhanced Leaping - he's too fast for you.

Lacking any evidence to the contrary, the same laws that would govern a normal jump would cover these enhanced jumps as well, including all calculations, trajectories, and associated data. We see it just as much in the other media, where for fast cross-country movement, long arching jumps are taken. The inspirational sources hold this to be true. Science holds this to be true. And even playability holds this to be true. You can't do much better than that.

And, for the record, the whole plane falling apart because of physics and super-strength has been done, and shown. The opening of Superman Returns did exactly that, with him trying to grab the wings first, but they were unable to handle the stresses. Only by going to the nose, where the rest of the actual structure of the plane met, was he able to keep it together. I feel it makes for a much better story, because it's not just "Ug, I can lift it!", instead it's "How can I use what i know to use my abilities to their fullest" And that kind of thinking has always been, and always should be, encouraged by palladium.

[flatline]

Hmm...so what happens when the character lands? Is there another minor power that lends itself to casual property damage on the same scale?

When considering the losses in the system, whatever energy is dissipated at the end of the jump must be less than the energy expelled at the beginning of the jump meaning that you also have to consider the potential for property damage at the beginning of the jump, too.

--flatline

[Malakai]

Hmm...so what happens when the character lands? Is there another minor power that lends itself to casual property damage on the same scale?

When considering the losses in the system, whatever energy is dissipated at the end of the jump must be less than the energy expelled at the beginning of the jump meaning that you also have to consider the potential for property damage at the beginning of the jump, too.

--flatline

One could argue the character's legs are a perfect spring, and thus store and use the energy on landing and take-off, respectively

The other method would be to use the speed of the character and count it as crashing at that speed, with all applicable issues, if one were to use it as a sort of "meteor strike". Heck, if you have the right powers, you really could smash up the place. . . . . looks like I have a new NPC to explore.

[say652]

Electric flight. 300mph speed
Cost 2 attacks.
Distance one mile.

With 13 attacks you could cover six miles a minute.
Faster than 300mph but for game mechanics.
It is what it is.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Hmm...so what happens when the character lands? Is there another minor power that lends itself to casual property damage on the same scale?

When considering the losses in the system, whatever energy is dissipated at the end of the jump must be less than the energy expelled at the beginning of the jump meaning that you also have to consider the potential for property damage at the beginning of the jump, too.

--flatline

Depends on your game. If you play it like most comics, the shock is absorbed by the hero and his super legs and doesnt damage anything when he lands. Just like most times in movies and comics it doesn't damage anything when they take off.

Conversely if you want you can play it the other way too. Like Hancock, where he tears up stuff when he takes off and very much when he lands. The new Superman had a bit of this as well.

That's a style thing. Some games prefer more "realism' with their super heroes, than others. Or perceived realism.

[say652]

I deal damage on jump and land.
Craters should prevent pc's from using the jump as transportation.

[LostOne]

I deal damage on jump and land.
Craters should prevent pc's from using the jump as transportation.

Only if the characters are concerned about destruction of property (public or private), and only in areas where property damage is hard to avoid like a city. If the character is needing to get from LA to Denver there is plenty of wilderness they can crater up.

[flatline]

I deal damage on jump and land.
Craters should prevent pc's from using the jump as transportation.

Only if the characters are concerned about destruction of property (public or private), and only in areas where property damage is hard to avoid like a city. If the character is needing to get from LA to Denver there is plenty of wilderness they can crater up.

Because farmers love big holes in their fields.

--flatline

[say652]

I give a well placed landing a horror factor of 8.

[flatline]

How do you guys handle jumping beyond line of sight from the origin?

[LostOne]

Because farmers love big holes in their fields.

It's not 100% farmland between point A and point B. Also, how big of craters are you picturing here? If the character has APS: Metal then yes, it's going to be bigger, but still not enormous. A 5ft crater isn't going to put a huge dent in a farmer's yield.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I deal damage on jump and land.
Craters should prevent pc's from using the jump as transportation.

So you penalize a hero for using his powers? Do you have Energy expulsion powers burn/blast the user too?

I'm not being snarky but if it hurts to jump and hurts to land, it seems that heroes would be some what hesitant to do either.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I deal damage on jump and land.
Craters should prevent pc's from using the jump as transportation.

Only if the characters are concerned about destruction of property (public or private), and only in areas where property damage is hard to avoid like a city. If the character is needing to get from LA to Denver there is plenty of wilderness they can crater up.

Not really. Most people don't hurt the ground when they hit it. Someone jumps off a building they don't crater into the ground they just squish/crack a bit when they land. If they land on a car sure, but the ground itself is rather non forgiving about such petty things as high speed human impact

[flatline]

Do you have Energy expulsion powers burn/blast the user too?

Sometimes.

Let's imagine that I have a grenade in my hand and I press the grenade against my target and pull the pin. When the grenade explodes, it will do damage both to the target and my hand.

Similarly, if I have EE:Fire and am not immune to fire, then if I press my hand against the target and expel fire, my hand will take damage from the fire since I'm not a safe distance away.

But in the general case where the target is some distance away from the character with EE, the character with EE does not take damage from his own power.

--flatline

[wyrmraker]

Important detail. Enhanced Leaping states specifically that the character takes no damage when descending from up to twice his horizontal jumping distance so long as he lands on his feet.

So no, landing generally wouldn't hurt the hero, as most people jumping deliberately would instinctively try to land feet-first.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Do you have Energy expulsion powers burn/blast the user too?

Sometimes.

Let's imagine that I have a grenade in my hand and I press the grenade against my target and pull the pin. When the grenade explodes, it will do damage both to the target and my hand.

Similarly, if I have EE:Fire and am not immune to fire, then if I press my hand against the target and expel fire, my hand will take damage from the fire since I'm not a safe distance away.

But in the general case where the target is some distance away from the character with EE, the character with EE does not take damage from his own power.

--flatline

Unless the powers are 'faulty' in some fashion I've not done this. I see what you're saying and it's not 'insane', but the 'immune to one's own power' type thing has always factored in before the "Fire burns" part kicks off. If you're shooting fire from your hand it's coming out of your hand, fire doesn't burn your hand. If you shoot optic beams from your eyes, you don't get to shoot them once and then fall to your knees screaming as your eyeballs burn out. Unless it's some 'faulty/broken/disfunctional' type power.

Now being able to shoot fire from your hands doesn't mean you could walk through a burning building, with out harm, but it does mean -your- fire doesn't burn -your- hands.

I know there's a hero in Marvel who has blown out his own chest and lower jaw with the use of his power but he's an exception to the rule and largely signifigant only for that reason.

[flatline]

Do you have Energy expulsion powers burn/blast the user too?

Sometimes.

Let's imagine that I have a grenade in my hand and I press the grenade against my target and pull the pin. When the grenade explodes, it will do damage both to the target and my hand.

Similarly, if I have EE:Fire and am not immune to fire, then if I press my hand against the target and expel fire, my hand will take damage from the fire since I'm not a safe distance away.

But in the general case where the target is some distance away from the character with EE, the character with EE does not take damage from his own power.

--flatline

Unless the powers are 'faulty' in some fashion I've not done this. I see what you're saying and it's not 'insane', but the 'immune to one's own power' type thing has always factored in before the "Fire burns" part kicks off. If you're shooting fire from your hand it's coming out of your hand, fire doesn't burn your hand. If you shoot optic beams from your eyes, you don't get to shoot them once and then fall to your knees screaming as your eyeballs burn out. Unless it's some 'faulty/broken/disfunctional' type power.

Now being able to shoot fire from your hands doesn't mean you could walk through a burning building, with out harm, but it does mean -your- fire doesn't burn -your- hands.

I know there's a hero in Marvel who has blown out his own chest and lower jaw with the use of his power but he's an exception to the rule and largely signifigant only for that reason.

If a character expels light and the light is reflected/bent back at the character, would you have the character take damage?

That's all I'm doing here.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

Do you have Energy expulsion powers burn/blast the user too?

Sometimes.

Let's imagine that I have a grenade in my hand and I press the grenade against my target and pull the pin. When the grenade explodes, it will do damage both to the target and my hand.

Similarly, if I have EE:Fire and am not immune to fire, then if I press my hand against the target and expel fire, my hand will take damage from the fire since I'm not a safe distance away.

But in the general case where the target is some distance away from the character with EE, the character with EE does not take damage from his own power.

--flatline

Unless the powers are 'faulty' in some fashion I've not done this. I see what you're saying and it's not 'insane', but the 'immune to one's own power' type thing has always factored in before the "Fire burns" part kicks off. If you're shooting fire from your hand it's coming out of your hand, fire doesn't burn your hand. If you shoot optic beams from your eyes, you don't get to shoot them once and then fall to your knees screaming as your eyeballs burn out. Unless it's some 'faulty/broken/disfunctional' type power.

Now being able to shoot fire from your hands doesn't mean you could walk through a burning building, with out harm, but it does mean -your- fire doesn't burn -your- hands.

I know there's a hero in Marvel who has blown out his own chest and lower jaw with the use of his power but he's an exception to the rule and largely signifigant only for that reason.

If a character expels light and the light is reflected/bent back at the character, would you have the character take damage?

That's all I'm doing here.

--flatline

No. I wouldn't. Super heroes traditionally don't get hurt by their own powers. Are there exceptions. Sure. Usually for story purposes, but by and large you're immune to your own power. Now if I shot out a laser and it blew up a pillar and the roof caved in on me. sure that'd hurt me, but shooting out a laser and hitting a mirrior and the laser hit me, it'd be a reabsorbtion of my own power.

Now that wouldn't save me if Guy B shot me with a laser. I'd totally take damage from that (Unless the power prevents it.).

I can 'see' how some GM's could rule your way. Like I said it's not crazy sauce or anything. It's just not how I, or the games I've played in, have rolled.

[The Artist Formerly]

As there are no notations about taking damage from your own powers, the you are immune to your own powers.

[say652]

Control kinetic energy is a heck of an equalizer. Lol

[flatline]

As there are no notations about taking damage from your own powers, the you are immune to your own powers.

I do not agree with your conclusion.

--flatline

[say652]

Example my 600lb hero can jump 300'.
Ok, upon landing roll to pull punch....7 um...ok roll punch damage plus ps bonus.....36sdc.
R
As your hero mightily leaps across the street to the next rooftop he suddenly crashes through the ceiling into the apartment below.

FOr those "not" being snarky.

GOT'EM!!

[Pepsi Jedi]

As there are no notations about taking damage from your own powers, the you are immune to your own powers.

I do not agree with your conclusion.

--flatline

Wouldn't most APS powers kill you, if you wern't immune to your own powers? Turning into flame or ice or stone or what have you would be pretty lethal if there wasn't some sort of immunity built in.

When you burst into flame your body doesn't suffer 3rd degree burns all over, etc.

[say652]

Ugh.
Ok last time.
I'll even try English.

The character does not take damage. The object landed on does.
Yes a 600lb oaf dropping from 300 feet will crater a road or collapse a rooftop.
Wow man, Its like a disagreement just to disagree with someone.

[flatline]

As there are no notations about taking damage from your own powers, the you are immune to your own powers.

I do not agree with your conclusion.

--flatline

Wouldn't most APS powers kill you, if you wern't immune to your own powers? Turning into flame or ice or stone or what have you would be pretty lethal if there wasn't some sort of immunity built in.

When you burst into flame your body doesn't suffer 3rd degree burns all over, etc.

APS powers are a bad example because, as far as I can remember, they all do offer immunity to their own powers (APS:Fire grants immunity to fire, APS:Electricity grants immunity to electricity and half damage from all other kinds of energy, etc).

EE:Fire, however, does not grant any sort of protection against fire. I think it has to be assumed that you can shoot fire from your hands/eyes (whatever) without damaging yourself, but you have no special protection against the energy that you're expelling. If you expel fire from one hand and put the other hand in the path of the flame, you will burn yourself.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

Ugh.
Ok last time.
I'll even try English.

The character does not take damage. The object landed on does.
Yes a 600lb oaf dropping from 300 feet will crater a road or collapse a rooftop.
Wow man, Its like a disagreement just to disagree with someone.

Ehh. Not really. 1) Most char's don't weigh 3 times human norm. Some do sure, but it's not an average weight for 1 person. Actually it'd take 3 overweight people to get there. I'm not sure other than "My personal character" you'd use this as a bench mark. It's not going to be a heroic average.
2) Ehh... 600 pounds isn't going to crater a road. It MIGHT form a crack. You're overestimating the damage potential of a human dropping on something. Look at suicides. People jumping off 30 story buildings. They don't put impact craters in the ground. Someone just gets a squeegee and a hose. (Sorry to be crass, just making a point) even 600lbs isn't a car or anything. You drop that weight from on high and it's just going to crunch/splat. (Heroes won't because they absorb the jump but speaking of just a human falling in general)
It's sort of like having a pitcher throw an egg as fast as he can at a wall. No matter how fast you throw that egg, it's not punching a hole in the wall. In the example, the falling human body's the egg and the road's the wall.
3) Depends on the roof top. They don't collapse quite that easily either. Source: Mythbusters. They've done an episode where they drop a piano (Uprights are 600-800lbs) on roofs from heights. It's been a month or so since I saw the episode but if memory serves, the first time the dropped the piano on an old run down condemned house, it bounced off the roof and crashed into the ground. They had to fill it with extra weight and drop it on the already weakened roof to have it break through.

So... your average hero with leaping 1) Won't be 600lbs. geeze, 2) Very likely won't 'crater' a road, as he simply doesn't have enough mass to do so and 3) Likely won't collapse a roof either. If it's a straw hut or something sure, but modern US building codes? Naa. He MIGHT punch a hole and land in the attick but even that's unlikely.

[Pepsi Jedi]

As there are no notations about taking damage from your own powers, the you are immune to your own powers.

I do not agree with your conclusion.

--flatline

Wouldn't most APS powers kill you, if you wern't immune to your own powers? Turning into flame or ice or stone or what have you would be pretty lethal if there wasn't some sort of immunity built in.

When you burst into flame your body doesn't suffer 3rd degree burns all over, etc.

APS powers are a bad example because, as far as I can remember, they all do offer immunity to their own powers (APS:Fire grants immunity to fire, APS:Electricity grants immunity to electricity and half damage from all other kinds of energy, etc).

EE:Fire, however, does not grant any sort of protection against fire. I think it has to be assumed that you can shoot fire from your hands/eyes (whatever) without damaging yourself, but you have no special protection against the energy that you're expelling. If you expel fire from one hand and put the other hand in the path of the flame, you will burn yourself.

--flatline

Your assumption contradicts your later statement.

If one assumes that generating fire from one hand doesn't burn, then why would it burn the other hand? If it's assumed that the generation of said fire from hand or eyes, does not burn the hero, it's likewise assumed that it doesn't burn the other hand or what have you.

(Unless the power is broken/faulty.)

Now I can see you saying "Ok I can shoot fire from my hands and I'm immune to that, but I can't run into a burning building because that's not 'my' fire. That's fire of another source."

[say652]

Ugh.
Ok last time.
I'll even try English.

The character does not take damage. The object landed on does.
Yes a 600lb oaf dropping from 300 feet will crater a road or collapse a rooftop.
Wow man, Its like a disagreement just to disagree with someone.

Ehh. Not really. 1) Most char's don't weigh 3 times human norm. Some do sure, but it's not an average weight for 1 person. Actually it'd take 3 overweight people to get there. I'm not sure other than "My personal character" you'd use this as a bench mark. It's not going to be a heroic average.
2) Ehh... 600 pounds isn't going to crater a road. It MIGHT form a crack. You're overestimating the damage potential of a human dropping on something. Look at suicides. People jumping off 30 story buildings. They don't put impact craters in the ground. Someone just gets a squeegee and a hose. (Sorry to be crass, just making a point) even 600lbs isn't a car or anything. You drop that weight from on high and it's just going to crunch/splat. (Heroes won't because they absorb the jump but speaking of just a human falling in general)
It's sort of like having a pitcher throw an egg as fast as he can at a wall. No matter how fast you throw that egg, it's not punching a hole in the wall. In the example, the falling human body's the egg and the road's the wall.
3) Depends on the roof top. They don't collapse quite that easily either. Source: Mythbusters. They've done an episode where they drop a piano (Uprights are 600-800lbs) on roofs from heights. It's been a month or so since I saw the episode but if memory serves, the first time the dropped the piano on an old run down condemned house, it bounced off the roof and crashed into the ground. They had to fill it with extra weight and drop it on the already weakened roof to have it break through.

So... your average hero with leaping 1) Won't be 600lbs. geeze, 2) Very likely won't 'crater' a road, as he simply doesn't have enough mass to do so and 3) Likely won't collapse a roof either. If it's a straw hut or something sure, but modern US building codes? Naa. He MIGHT punch a hole and land in the attick but even that's unlikely.

Irl 160lb dumba$$ fifteen foot to roof, in my mind hit roof utemi and look cool, reality says land, foot goes through and smack elbow.

[flatline]

As there are no notations about taking damage from your own powers, the you are immune to your own powers.

I do not agree with your conclusion.

--flatline

Wouldn't most APS powers kill you, if you wern't immune to your own powers? Turning into flame or ice or stone or what have you would be pretty lethal if there wasn't some sort of immunity built in.

When you burst into flame your body doesn't suffer 3rd degree burns all over, etc.

APS powers are a bad example because, as far as I can remember, they all do offer immunity to their own powers (APS:Fire grants immunity to fire, APS:Electricity grants immunity to electricity and half damage from all other kinds of energy, etc).

EE:Fire, however, does not grant any sort of protection against fire. I think it has to be assumed that you can shoot fire from your hands/eyes (whatever) without damaging yourself, but you have no special protection against the energy that you're expelling. If you expel fire from one hand and put the other hand in the path of the flame, you will burn yourself.

--flatline

Your assumption contradicts your later statement.

I don't see how. I assume that I can shoot a bullet from my Glock without damaging it, but if that bullet somehow returned to the Glock (iron core bullet in strong magnetic fields?), the Glock wouldn't be immune to damage from the bullet it fired.

If one assumes that generating fire from one hand doesn't burn, then why would it burn the other hand? If it's assumed that the generation of said fire from hand or eyes, does not burn the hero, it's likewise assumed that it doesn't burn the other hand or what have you.

(Unless the power is broken/faulty.)

Now I can see you saying "Ok I can shoot fire from my hands and I'm immune to that, but I can't run into a burning building because that's not 'my' fire. That's fire of another source."

Look at it from the other side. How is the fire I'm expelling different from other fire? If regular fire does damage to me and my own fire is indistinguishable from regular fire, why would I *not* take damage from my own fire?

--flatline

[say652]

With the above example.

If the room caught on fire, by your flame powers you would burn up.

Why shouldn't your own blast hurt you??
If a power is deflected unless immune to said damage, you would take damage.

[wyrmraker]

If everyone were injured by their own powers (not sure how taking off with a super jump would qualify as 'self-damaging'), then almost nobody would use their powers at all for fear of injury. For example, an EE:Fire blast from the hand should scorch the hand to the bone. Why would anyone subject themselves to permanent damage/disfigurement?

[flatline]

If everyone were injured by their own powers (not sure how taking off with a super jump would qualify as 'self-damaging'), then almost nobody would use their powers at all for fear of injury. For example, an EE:Fire blast from the hand should scorch the hand to the bone. Why would anyone subject themselves to permanent damage/disfigurement?

I must be doing a bad job explaining this because several of you are misinterpreting my position.

Using your power as intended won't hurt you. For purposes of playability, I assume that you can expel fire from your hand without hurting your hand because otherwise the power can't be used safely. But if your expelled fire is reflected back at you or you aim your fire at another part of your body, then that part of your body will take damage unless it is protected by some other power.

Let's choose another example. If I use my super strength to throw a piano, I assume that the act of throwing the piano won't cause me damage because super heroes throwing things is to be expected. However, if I throw the piano straight up and it falls on me, I expect to take damage.

If I have matter expulsion, I can shoot matter without taking damage, but if I point it at my foot, I will take damage. No different from if I have a pistol.

What's so hard to understand about this?

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

Because, "Throwing" a piano, or shooting yourself in the foot with metal shards isn't the same thing as suddenly and inexplicedly generating some sort of energy from your own body that doesn't 'harm' the part of the body that's producing it.

Where ever the 'fire' or 'energy' or what have you comes from (Don't know, never explained) you are not harmed by it. I.E. when you shoot fire from your hand you don't burn your hand off. What ever super (Whatever) There is that prevents you from burning your hand to a crisp with your super fire, prevents it from burning if you get splashback.

"Your" power (where ever it's from or made of) doesn't fry your hand when you produce it, so it doesn't fry you if you are hit with it. The fire can't tell your hand that it's shooting from from your foot you're shooting at. It's not a sentient element.

Where in a piano thrown is physical and not made by you (Unless you built the piano, but you know what I mean) Likewise, Matter expulsion would be different because you're producing 'matter' that has mass and takes up weight. A ball of stone or something in your hand wouldn't hurt you as it's a ball of stone. A shard of crystal from your hand would only hurt if impaled through your hand. (Though it could be argued that as you can dispell the matter, that if you shot it at yourself you'd just reabsorb it vs being impaled by it)

[say652]

The superjump damaging the take off and land zones.
Not the character.

[flatline]

"Your" power (where ever it's from or made of) doesn't fry your hand when you produce it, so it doesn't fry you if you are hit with it.

Premise: "your power doesn't fry your hand when you produce it"
Conclusion: "your power doesn't fry you if you are hit with it"

The conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.

--flatline