Time Lords and Rifts Earth

[Library Ogre]

So, assuming one wanted to fiddle about with it, has anyone worked out how Time Lords (from Transdimensional TMNT) would get along in Rifts Earth?

I figure that the Coming of the Rifts would work something like the Third Millenial Barrier does in TrTMNT... you can't go back from there, because the timelines get all jumbled (a knot made up of several thousand garden hoses, to extend Lord Simultaneous's metaphor). Given the reduction in the size of twists with each cycle, twists would be something like 115-120 years long. But how would Rifts Earth react to some of the more catastrophic effects of rewriting history, given that it's a charlie foxtrot already?

[Raze_7]

So, assuming one wanted to fiddle about with it, has anyone worked out how Time Lords (from Transdimensional TMNT) would get along in Rifts Earth?

I figure that the Coming of the Rifts would work something like the Third Millenial Barrier does in TrTMNT... you can't go back from there, because the timelines get all jumbled (a knot made up of several thousand garden hoses, to extend Lord Simultaneous's metaphor). Given the reduction in the size of twists with each cycle, twists would be something like 115-120 years long. But how would Rifts Earth react to some of the more catastrophic effects of rewriting history, given that it's a charlie foxtrot already?

Okay... Well, seeing as I haven't looked at TrTMNT, I'm kinda flying by the seat of my pants here.

Are these Time Lords in any way, shape, or form similar to those of the hit BBC series: Doctor Who, or do I have a completely different perspective on this?

[Mechghost]

yeah I read the title and thought Doctor Who also.

haven't read or looked at TMNT in decades (literally) but if I have time I'll poke about tonight

[Library Ogre]

So, assuming one wanted to fiddle about with it, has anyone worked out how Time Lords (from Transdimensional TMNT) would get along in Rifts Earth?

I figure that the Coming of the Rifts would work something like the Third Millenial Barrier does in TrTMNT... you can't go back from there, because the timelines get all jumbled (a knot made up of several thousand garden hoses, to extend Lord Simultaneous's metaphor). Given the reduction in the size of twists with each cycle, twists would be something like 115-120 years long. But how would Rifts Earth react to some of the more catastrophic effects of rewriting history, given that it's a charlie foxtrot already?

Okay... Well, seeing as I haven't looked at TrTMNT, I'm kinda flying by the seat of my pants here.

Are these Time Lords in any way, shape, or form similar to those of the hit BBC series: Doctor Who, or do I have a completely different perspective on this?

Completely different perspective.

Briefly, they are wizards with spells that let them travel through time, but only in fairly specific ways; they can't set their machine for November 5th, 1955. Rather, they have to travel in terms of "cycles" (extremely long periods of time) and "twists" (relatively short; in the current cycle, twists are 125 years long). So, one travelling from today could easily travel to 1890, or to 2140, but wouldn't be able to make 1980 without a lot more power.

[Glistam]

I think they'd get along just fine. Here's an older topic that might be relevant: http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=137948

[Mr. Jays]

yeah I read the title and thought Doctor Who also.

Me too!

[Incriptus]

Trans D TMNT was a great book ... I would love to find a copy at this point.

I would treat the coming of the rifts as a barrier point assigning wicked penalties for trying.

[Kagashi]

Ahh, Trans TMNT...such a superior magic system than the current PPE system. Great book.

I'd imagine if the Time Lords rewrote history, it would create a parallel dimension like described in DB7. In effect, the Time Lords arrive in Rifts Earth Prime and changes something, making Rifts Earth 2 which runs concurrently as Rifts Earth Prime.

[acreRake]

To me Simultaneous' instructions to Renet can basically be boiled down to "the job of the timelords is to keep Rifts from happening." I guess I always assumed that on rifts earth the time lords lost. To me the kind of transdimensional chaos caused at the coming of the rifts would destroy or at least cut loose the dimensions of null time from those universes.

But, if there were some still around, I'm with you in thinking that they wouldn't be able to go back before the coming of the rifts... At least it would be super hard to hit the right dimension if you tried. It would probably get into the territory of needing ridiculously high IQ to A) understand what's going on and B) how to make a change in the past that would alter Rifts as we know it at all.

On the other hand the tdtmnt space time model does seem self repairing, and naturally returns to stable cycles and twists...

Well I'd say, they can only jump forward (and back again) and even that would be dangerous because there's no telling how much of the dimension might be compromised/overwritten by another reality between jumps. They'd probably need that skill (spell?) that you use when jumping in a different dimension -all the time. Especially if you are anywhere near a ley line.

[The Beast]

Ahh, Trans TMNT...such a superior magic system than the current PPE system.

Like hell it was.

[smashed]

I incorporated them into a past campaign, but primarily as part of an effort produce an amalgam setting of the various lines and as a way to introduce some of the spells presented and the concept of temporal energy. I had the coming of the rifts destabilize the normal twists and cycles, and shatter the more stable null zones. Entering Null zones is even more unreliable and can result in you getting shunted uncontrollably through time and dimensions. Twists shift in length making it impossible to predictably travel in time currently impossible to find a cycle forward in time. Time travel is theoretically possible between pre and post Coming of the Rifts, but it results in highly unpredictable outcomes, especially if you try to hit the twists around the Coming of the Rifts.

The Time Lords themselves are still around. The 79th was shattered in half so the Time Lords can't use it to access twists and cycles from before the Rifts, and it currently only touches a few twists, though the length of them still shift along the null zone. Their current goal is to defend their home, maintain their order and try to stabilize time.

[Glistam]

I incorporated them into a past campaign, but primarily as part of an effort produce an amalgam setting of the various lines and as a way to introduce some of the spells presented and the concept of temporal energy. I had the coming of the rifts destabilize the normal twists and cycles, and shatter the more stable null zones. Entering Null zones is even more unreliable and can result in you getting shunted uncontrollably through time and dimensions. Twists shift in length making it impossible to predictably travel in time currently impossible to find a cycle forward in time. Time travel is theoretically possible between pre and post Coming of the Rifts, but it results in highly unpredictable outcomes, especially if you try to hit the twists around the Coming of the Rifts.

The Time Lords themselves are still around. The 79th was shattered in half so the Time Lords can't use it to access twists and cycles from before the Rifts, and it currently only touches a few twists, though the length of them still shift along the null zone. Their current goal is to defend their home, maintain their order and try to stabilize time.

I really like this!

[Tor]

Ahh, Trans TMNT...such a superior magic system than the current PPE system.

Like hell it was.

Depends on what is meant by superior. It certainly allowed high-tier spells to be cast more casually, could be more fun. Sucks for mass-casting low-level spells though.

[eliakon]

Ahh, Trans TMNT...such a superior magic system than the current PPE system.

Like hell it was.

Depends on what is meant by superior. It certainly allowed high-tier spells to be cast more casually, could be more fun. Sucks for mass-casting low-level spells though.

I would say it was 'different' it wasn't superior or inferior, just different.

[Tor]

Differences can be superior and inferior in varying respects

[Library Ogre]

I incorporated them into a past campaign, but primarily as part of an effort produce an amalgam setting of the various lines and as a way to introduce some of the spells presented and the concept of temporal energy. I had the coming of the rifts destabilize the normal twists and cycles, and shatter the more stable null zones. Entering Null zones is even more unreliable and can result in you getting shunted uncontrollably through time and dimensions. Twists shift in length making it impossible to predictably travel in time currently impossible to find a cycle forward in time. Time travel is theoretically possible between pre and post Coming of the Rifts, but it results in highly unpredictable outcomes, especially if you try to hit the twists around the Coming of the Rifts.

The Time Lords themselves are still around. The 79th was shattered in half so the Time Lords can't use it to access twists and cycles from before the Rifts, and it currently only touches a few twists, though the length of them still shift along the null zone. Their current goal is to defend their home, maintain their order and try to stabilize time.

Awesome.

[Razorwing]

The way I tend to see the Great Cataclysm that created Rifts Earth in relation to time travel is as follows.

The Great Cataclysm sent shockwaves not only across dimensions but also through time (both back and forwards). This is not unlike the Dr. Who episode "Fires of Pompeii" where the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius fractures time for an instant allowing the Sisterhood glimpses of what may be... and leads to a possible alternate timeline where the mountain doesn't erupt.

Anyways... back to the Great Cataclysm and Rifts Earth. This temporal shockwave travels both up and down the timestream... the closer one gets to the point of origin, the stronger the shockwave is and the greater the chance of it throwing one off course and into a different temporal era than intended. This effectively makes getting any closer than 100 to 50 years of the event nearly impossible to get to... and anything closer would be effectively blocked from any time traveler (the temporal shockwave is just too powerful to get any closer).

In this respect, it is very similar to the Third Millennium Barrier... in that one simply can not reach the exact moment of the Great Cataclysm... or within 50 to 100 years of that event, through any means of time travel... magical or technological. The released energies make it impossible to reach.

That said... it is also different from the TMB in that one can still travel past this event... in fact the temporal shockwave in a way makes it very easy to do so... as its very nature will push any time traveler along to a point where the shockwave has dissipated enough to allow "regular" time travel. Thus, as long as one isn't trying to reach the moment of the Great Cataclysm or any point within 50 to 100 years of the event... their trip will be more or less normal... though they may notice a little turbulence around the moment of the Cataclysm as they are buffeted by its temporal wake.

What this means for Time Lords (from TMNT) is that they would be aware of the event... and even the consequences of that event, but are unable to get close enough to the event to affect it. At best (and if they are very lucky) the could get to a point 50 or so years before hand, but then have to actually live in that timeline for 50 years to reach the event... something few humans would do (and despite their magical abilities, these Time Lords are still human). Yes, it would probably annoy them to no end that there is a span of 100 to 200 years they can not see or travel to... and that in that time span the Earth is utterly transformed into something barely recognizable as Earth... but then there is little they can do about it.

As a side note... when I first heard rumors of the Rifts setting 25 years ago (before the game was actually published), one of those rumors put the event that created Rifts Earth on the other side of the TMB... where Time Lords can't reach. Of course now, with the knowledge of the date when the Great Cataclysm occurred (in part due to the Chaos Earth setting), we know that this is indeed a different timeline entirely from the TMNT setting (though many assumed as much when the game came out). In fact... Chaos Earth would be roughly the same time period as After the Bomb... give or take a few years... while the main setting of Rifts would take place around the time of the Machine Civilization presented in the Transdimensional TMNT book (circa 2363).

[Library Ogre]

What happens if they enter the time stream near the event, then use a temporal stasis type spell to skip forward?

[Tor]

Solution for all time travel anomalies: Simultaneous comes along with that auto-correct spell, or guys beyond the Millenial Barier come along with one of those auto-correct devices.