What is canonly The CS's responce time ?

[Lenwen]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

[Nekira Sudacne]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

Considering the huge problems the CS had reinforcing the Tolkeen front, i'd say it'd take hours or days, but only because Kevin apparently forgot just how close Chi-Town is to tolkeen.

[Lenwen]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

Considering the huge problems the CS had reinforcing the Tolkeen front, i'd say it'd take hours or days, but only because Kevin apparently forgot just how close Chi-Town is to tolkeen.

ok admittedly, I do not have the entire collection of the Tolkeen war series. So I was / am unaware, of how long it took them to send / receive reinforcements. Thank you for a canon answer that is pretty long. Its no where near what some on the boards would have us believe then clearly ..

[guardiandashi]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

Considering the huge problems the CS had reinforcing the Tolkeen front, i'd say it'd take hours or days, but only because Kevin apparently forgot just how close Chi-Town is to tolkeen.

ok it depends in part on the "alert status"
example: if the "trouble spot" is under 300 miles away a group of old style SAMAS can be there within ~1 hour IMO
if it takes up to ~30 min to prep a death head, it could respond within ~1hr within around 300 miles as well.

a group of OLD style SAMAS can respond to anywhere within ~3000 miles within ~10 hrs
that same death head assuming 30 min prep, ~5.25 hrs to get ~3000 miles away barring travel complications

[Blue_Lion]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

Depends on how important the person asking for help is.
The impression I get is the CS treats its grunts as expendable and are not likely to send help if a long range patrol is ambushed.

So it could be half an hour to never.

[guardiandashi]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

you have multiple issues that factor in.
1 value of response.
if the force in question isn't "worth" a response well that is one answer.
2 type of response:
if the response is to send a salvo of missiles "special delivery", and addressed "to whom it may concern." then arrival time would be, time to get authorization to fire, plus time to program, and fire, plus travel time of the weapons.
2A if the response is manned units, then 1 time to decide response is warrented, selection and dispatch of response force, then add travel time of slowest units in the force if they travel as a group, but some groups may dispatch some or all of their samas or sky cycles for example as rapid response with the rest of the unit following.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

Considering the huge problems the CS had reinforcing the Tolkeen front, i'd say it'd take hours or days, but only because Kevin apparently forgot just how close Chi-Town is to tolkeen.

ok admittedly, I do not have the entire collection of the Tolkeen war series. So I was / am unaware, of how long it took them to send / receive reinforcements. Thank you for a canon answer that is pretty long. Its no where near what some on the boards would have us believe then clearly ..

Most people kind of gloss over it because it's very hard to beleive the cannon response times. apparently getting troops moved around in large groups takes the CS days and weeks, and the entire war lasts years dispite tolkeen being less than 2 hours flight by chi-town. basically entire armies of air elementals and flying demons pretty much shut most air power down requiring the CS to slog through rivers and dense forests with traps everywhere. basically, they suffered all the logistical problems the US had at vietnam, only instead of having move them across an ocean they had to move them a 6 hour drive by truck, which had everyone, pro and anti CS, shaking their heads.

[kaid]

Hehe ya there was a LOT of handwaving to make tolkeen even somewhat of a threat. It would take a while for ground vehicles to travel through what is in effect mostly old growth forest between northern IL and tolkeen but using death heads you could leap frog large quantities of forces to the front in probably less than an hour if you really put the pedal down. Comercial flights take about an hour and a half to go from chicago to the twin cities where tolkeen was on a modern plane.

One of the biggest legitmate reasons for some lag in response time is communications range. Most power armor has a com range of about 5-10 miles for their omni directional short range radio and a directional long range radio of range of a few hundred miles for the more powerful radios. A lot of CS patrols could easily be out of touch of anything other than local units especially if air travel is being disrupted.

[glitterboy2098]

back to the original post.. keep in mind the CS's forces don't all have to come from a fortress city in such a scenario.
the 1D4 minutes to respond inside the fortress is effectively the same scenario as when trouble is reported in a modern city and nearby police are routed to check it out. nearby forces are called and told to head there right away. and those first forces would then check it out and call in for extra support if it's too big or dangerous to handle on their own.
the CS would be similar. 1D4 minutes for a pair or two of ISS officers to check it out, another 1D4 after that if they need serious firepower.

for out in the states.. not only do you have more than just the fortress cities with troops stationed at them (you also have non-fortress cities, larger villages, and dedicated military outposts) but those would also have patrols of troops (both ground and on SAMAS/skycycle) out pretty much constantly.

the main difference is that outside the fortress the ability to tell if something is going on is a lot harder. so i would say that once the troublemakers get noticed you could bet on flying patrol of 2-4 SAMAS or skycycles to be by in response within around maybe 2D4 minutes, additional ground patrols to be there within maybe 6D6 minutes, and if the first responses don't work, you could expect a major response maybe 3D4 minutes after the first response radio's in, with a nearby base's fast reaction forces fly in via helicopter or airborne APC.

if the troublemakers manage to destroy or escape the first responses before the later ones arrive, the CS bases would realize no contact means trouble, and would send that fast reaction force out anyway, who would then do a search grid. starting the whole process over again. if the trouble makers can avoid further contact for the day, the fact reaction force would go home, but you can bet the CS would assign a few extra patrols to the area for the next several days just to be sure.

[Lenwen]

back to the original post.. keep in mind the CS's forces don't all have to come from a fortress city in such a scenario.
the 1D4 minutes to respond inside the fortress is effectively the same scenario as when trouble is reported in a modern city and nearby police are routed to check it out. nearby forces are called and told to head there right away. and those first forces would then check it out and call in for extra support if it's too big or dangerous to handle on their own.
the CS would be similar. 1D4 minutes for a pair or two of ISS officers to check it out, another 1D4 after that if they need serious firepower.

Well the only problem is that I've already quoted canonly speaking from the book it takes 1d4 minutes for the CS to respond anywhere inside or outside directly of its fortress cities..

How then are they going to maintain such a fast response in remote parts of the wilderness ? I do not see how its possible to have a response ability of 1d4 minutes in the more remote area's .. The Cities themselves , I can suspend belief enough for that yeah, but not in the further reaches of the country sides ..

[Mack]

There is no canon answer, but we have to ask ourselves what's the point of sending out a patrol that can be easily schwacked and has no support? There's no military utility in that. Indeed, any commander that had this tendency would find himself either relieved from duty or sleeping with Corp Pauchy's hand-grenade.

Also, we have to consider where the support would come from. A squad (and I assume we're talking about a squad sized unit) patrolling the wilderness isn't going to call Chi-Town help. They're going to call their platoon or company which is likely to have some air assets immediately available. Neither do I see a squad being that far away from it's parent unit, which means those air assets won't have to cover that much ground. Even at a rather modest 200mph, an air asset will cover 3.3 miles per minute (Sky Cycles will greatly exceed that).

If we put ourselves in that patrol's position (or in the company commander's) it becomes easy to see what kind of support structure we'd setup. Most notably how we'd deploy our internal SAMAS and Sky Cycles to provide Combat Air Support.

Here's how I see an encounter playing out (your mileage may vary):
- Squad radio's in "troops in contact"
- Nearest SAMAS / Sky Cycles are vectored to support. GM's call on how long this takes, but it could be very short (again, short distance combined with plenty of speed). Figure 2 to 4 assets from the platoon / company arrive on-scene in minutes.
- When the air assets arrive, they update HQ on the situation (either they can handle it, call for more help, or scream to run for it)
- If additional help is called, then it arrives in escalating waves as the emergency is passed from platoon to company to battalion...


As an aside, the 1D4 minute response from the big cities may be fairly representative as the aircraft speed and distance to be covered are largely the same. I wouldn't discount it.

[glitterboy2098]

back to the original post.. keep in mind the CS's forces don't all have to come from a fortress city in such a scenario.
the 1D4 minutes to respond inside the fortress is effectively the same scenario as when trouble is reported in a modern city and nearby police are routed to check it out. nearby forces are called and told to head there right away. and those first forces would then check it out and call in for extra support if it's too big or dangerous to handle on their own.
the CS would be similar. 1D4 minutes for a pair or two of ISS officers to check it out, another 1D4 after that if they need serious firepower.

Well the only problem is that I've already quoted canonly speaking from the book it takes 1d4 minutes for the CS to respond anywhere inside or outside directly of its fortress cities..

How then are they going to maintain such a fast response in remote parts of the wilderness ? I do not see how its possible to have a response ability of 1d4 minutes in the more remote area's .. The Cities themselves , I can suspend belief enough for that yeah, but not in the further reaches of the country sides ..

already explained that.

for out in the states.. not only do you have more than just the fortress cities with troops stationed at them (you also have non-fortress cities, larger villages, and dedicated military outposts) but those would also have patrols of troops (both ground and on SAMAS/skycycle) out pretty much constantly.

the same as any military. there are other bases from which forces can respond, which means that any point in a CS state is close to at least one military base.

and these bases have patrols out. that is, they have squads/platoons of troops which are physically traveling around in the area surrounding the bases. for the CS, these are likely to be SAMAS's and skycycles flying around as much as ground forces.

if a CS community is attacked, the defenders of the town need only to send a message "help we're being attacked"* to which the nearest CS base responds by radioing a group of SAMAS/skycycles on patrol to immediately fly there at max speed. then sending a ground patrol (troops in APC's) that way as well, while getting troops on the base loaded onto flying vehicles to send off in support if needed.

*which could be an actual radio message, could be the base overhearing increased radio activity from the location, could even be someone on the base going "sir, i see smoke from over there".. anything out of the ordinary.

[guardiandashi]

its not directly related but it is relavent.

My father told me this story the other day.
while he was serving in the navy in Vietnam, a munitions freighter for the us navy was headed over to an area to transfer munitions to other craft, etc. They saw a number of fast craft leave the coast area ~12miles ish away. they were cruising along at ~6 knots and there were no scheduled friendlies to come to them in the vicinity so they called for help.
A guided missile/rocket ship responded within ~12-30 seconds and asked if they wanted them to fire now, or wait 20 seconds....
the ships coming from shore IMMEDIATELY turned around headed back to the coast.

so if the CS was a real military and considering how hostile the world is described as being... most situations would get some kind of response almost immediately but the specific nature of the response will vary, but in general its going to be like tossing a rock in a pond things are going to ripple out, and the nature of the incident is going to determine the nature of the response.

a unit of skelibots being attacked? likely to get a series of other units of skelibots vectoring in.
a unit of dogboys/infantry gets jumped. may or may not get a high value reaction, on the other hand if it was say that they managed to inform higher that it was say splugorth they might immediately get written off, but still get several salvo's of missiles vectored into the area and a squad of samas/fighters /bombers heading in to take out the splugorth. and if that response group gets wacked, then the big guns might get rolled out.

[Lenwen]

There is a canon answer, as its in the books. And I quoted it for in city responce time.

[eliakon]

There is a canon answer, as its in the books. And I quoted it for in city responce time.

Yeah, so 1d4 minutes in a city....or to put it another way....
We know that calling 911 in a city will get you a squad car on the scene in 1d4 minutes.
What we do not know is what the response time for the army QRF....

And with out a lot of information that is not provided there is no way to figure out that response time.
We don't know how the patrol structure of the CS military is set up.
We don't know what the fire authorization structure of the CS military is
We don't know how far apart CS fire bases are....or even if they use them
We don't know what the CS response to threats IS (do they send in more troops?, provide artillery strikes?, if they send in troops is it a graduated response or do even trivial forces get entire deaths heads showing up?)

Which leaves us guessing and filling in gaps based on our own views of how things should/would work, our own biases, and our own personal headcanon.....

[ShadowLogan]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

Considering the huge problems the CS had reinforcing the Tolkeen front, i'd say it'd take hours or days, but only because Kevin apparently forgot just how close Chi-Town is to tolkeen.

ok admittedly, I do not have the entire collection of the Tolkeen war series. So I was / am unaware, of how long it took them to send / receive reinforcements. Thank you for a canon answer that is pretty long. Its no where near what some on the boards would have us believe then clearly ..

Most people kind of gloss over it because it's very hard to beleive the cannon response times. apparently getting troops moved around in large groups takes the CS days and weeks, and the entire war lasts years dispite tolkeen being less than 2 hours flight by chi-town. basically entire armies of air elementals and flying demons pretty much shut most air power down requiring the CS to slog through rivers and dense forests with traps everywhere. basically, they suffered all the logistical problems the US had at vietnam, only instead of having move them across an ocean they had to move them a 6 hour drive by truck, which had everyone, pro and anti CS, shaking their heads.

It is also possible fans are overestimating inventory stocks of given platforms. Aside from the Fire Storm Mobile Fortress (IIRC) and PA-06 SAMAS in CWC, do we have any idea of the actual inventory numbers for a given CS platform in the book (CS Navy, FQ might be different in this respect)?

[Dustin Fireblade]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

In addition to Mack's comments, this might help in regards to larger/strategic deployment -

On page 39 of WB 11, we have the description of the CS Rapid Deployment Force. Essentially it can move four divisions to anywhere in North American within 48 hours.

On page 16 of WB 13, we have the history of the Lone Star Complex. Three hours after the very first excavation team gained entry, the 4th Army was mobilized, and 12 hours later it completely surrounded the complex.

[Lenwen]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

In addition to Mack's comments, this might help in regards to larger/strategic deployment -

On page 39 of WB 11, we have the description of the CS Rapid Deployment Force. Essentially it can move four divisions to anywhere in North American within 48 hours.

On page 16 of WB 13, we have the history of the Lone Star Complex. Three hours after the very first excavation team gained entry, the 4th Army was mobilized, and 12 hours later it completely surrounded the complex.

So checking out maps of Lone Star. We see Del Rio to San Antonio is 238km, (147.886 miles), And that Amarillo to the actual Lone star facilities is half that distance (roughly 74 miles). We can then take what we know of the distance from Chicago to Amarillo 894 miles. 17hrs 49 min (by car on roads) Chi-Town is located 80 miles north east of the old chicago ruins.

Total distance then is ..
74 miles (distance between Amarillo to Lone Star Facilities)
80 miles (distance between Chicago to Chi-Town itself)
894 miles (distance between Chicago to Amarillo)
1,058 miles total distance from Chi-town to Lone Star, and it took 3 hrs prep time (mobilization time) and 12 hrs of travel time, til boots on ground for 23,000+ combat ready troops.

And it does not get any faster, considering the find (best thing ever to happen to the Coalition) and the overall instantly recognizable importance of the site .. I'd say that was thee absolute fastest the CS is able to mobilize that many troops.

[guardiandashi]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

In addition to Mack's comments, this might help in regards to larger/strategic deployment -

On page 39 of WB 11, we have the description of the CS Rapid Deployment Force. Essentially it can move four divisions to anywhere in North American within 48 hours.

On page 16 of WB 13, we have the history of the Lone Star Complex. Three hours after the very first excavation team gained entry, the 4th Army was mobilized, and 12 hours later it completely surrounded the complex.

So checking out maps of Lone Star. We see Del Rio to San Antonio is 238km, (147.886 miles), And that Amarillo to the actual Lone star facilities is half that distance (roughly 74 miles). We can then take what we know of the distance from Chicago to Amarillo 894 miles. 17hrs 49 min (by car on roads) Chi-Town is located 80 miles north east of the old chicago ruins.

Total distance then is ..
74 miles (distance between Amarillo to Lone Star Facilities)
80 miles (distance between Chicago to Chi-Town itself)
894 miles (distance between Chicago to Amarillo)
1,058 miles total distance from Chi-town to Lone Star, and it took 3 hrs prep time (mobilization time) and 12 hrs of travel time, til boots on ground for 23,000+ combat ready troops.

And it does not get any faster, considering the find (best thing ever to happen to the Coalition) and the overall instantly recognizable importance of the site .. I'd say that was thee absolute fastest the CS is able to mobilize that many troops.

wb13 lone star pg 16
Three hours after the excavation team gained access and radio scrambled
their initial report to Chi-Town, the entire 4th Army was mobilized.
Twelve hours later, the Army surrounded the area. Three
months later, the old American State of Texas was declared the Coalition
State of Lone Star!
actually it was NOT 12 hours of travel time it was more like 2 hours of travel time with death head transports. the fact was that within 12 hours the facility was completely surrounded.
what that means in my mind is that the units were in place and if necessary at least partially if not fully dug in. additionally I would suggest that any hostiles or potential hostiles had been pushed out of their perimeter. IE they had fully secured the area around the facility, which is over 30 square miles all underground. this means at least a 10 mile in radius circle. if not more.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Thanks guardiandashi I was just getting ready to clarify that as well.

In any event, it's a pretty good indication of the CS ability, circa 68 PA, of their response time.

[Lenwen]

Well given that the CS has deaths head transports, would they really even need to dig in any particular holes for any reason ? MDC armor, massive transports, I'd have thought super high tech like that would negate the ol trench warfare all together.

[guardiandashi]

Well given that the CS has deaths head transports, would they really even need to dig in any particular holes for any reason ? MDC armor, massive transports, I'd have thought super high tech like that would negate the ol trench warfare all together.

I expect infantry is still going to dig in because any shots that go into the ground, or over their heads, or otherwise misses them means they will live longer.

units like UAR1's spider skull's etc. may still take advantage of fortifications, once they are in place for similar reasons, but the dirt isn't their friend as much as it is for infantry.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well given that the CS has deaths head transports, would they really even need to dig in any particular holes for any reason ? MDC armor, massive transports, I'd have thought super high tech like that would negate the ol trench warfare all together.

Nope.

I forget where, but the books do mention earthworks being effective against MD weapons.

[eliakon]

I've read in Black market it takes (within the Chi Town itself mind you) on average 1d4 minutes reaction When they are alerted.

So using that as a gauge .. just how soon would "help" come in the places that are hundreds of miles away from the Fortress cities in the advent of a CS force getting taken out by another force before that secondary "help" CS force would show up ?

In addition to Mack's comments, this might help in regards to larger/strategic deployment -

On page 39 of WB 11, we have the description of the CS Rapid Deployment Force. Essentially it can move four divisions to anywhere in North American within 48 hours.

On page 16 of WB 13, we have the history of the Lone Star Complex. Three hours after the very first excavation team gained entry, the 4th Army was mobilized, and 12 hours later it completely surrounded the complex.

So checking out maps of Lone Star. We see Del Rio to San Antonio is 238km, (147.886 miles), And that Amarillo to the actual Lone star facilities is half that distance (roughly 74 miles). We can then take what we know of the distance from Chicago to Amarillo 894 miles. 17hrs 49 min (by car on roads) Chi-Town is located 80 miles north east of the old chicago ruins.

Total distance then is ..
74 miles (distance between Amarillo to Lone Star Facilities)
80 miles (distance between Chicago to Chi-Town itself)
894 miles (distance between Chicago to Amarillo)
1,058 miles total distance from Chi-town to Lone Star, and it took 3 hrs prep time (mobilization time) and 12 hrs of travel time, til boots on ground for 23,000+ combat ready troops.

And it does not get any faster, considering the find (best thing ever to happen to the Coalition) and the overall instantly recognizable importance of the site .. I'd say that was thee absolute fastest the CS is able to mobilize that many troops.

wb13 lone star pg 16
Three hours after the excavation team gained access and radio scrambled
their initial report to Chi-Town, the entire 4th Army was mobilized.
Twelve hours later, the Army surrounded the area. Three
months later, the old American State of Texas was declared the Coalition
State of Lone Star!
actually it was NOT 12 hours of travel time it was more like 2 hours of travel time with death head transports. the fact was that within 12 hours the facility was completely surrounded.
what that means in my mind is that the units were in place and if necessary at least partially if not fully dug in. additionally I would suggest that any hostiles or potential hostiles had been pushed out of their perimeter. IE they had fully secured the area around the facility, which is over 30 square miles all underground. this means at least a 10 mile in radius circle. if not more.

Surrounded though, not occupied, not secured....surrounded.
So it took them 12 hours to surround the facility....and three months later they were able to fully secure it to the point that they could declare it a state.
Not that its not impressive in its own right. Surrounding cities with military units prior to a full push into the city takes days or weeks in the real world so being able to set up a full siege line in twelve hours is pretty impressive. Though I would suspect that the 4th Army is the CS Rapid Response Force, and that other units may be a bit slower.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Well given that the CS has deaths head transports, would they really even need to dig in any particular holes for any reason ? MDC armor, massive transports, I'd have thought super high tech like that would negate the ol trench warfare all together.

With skills such as "Military Fortification" and/or "Trap Construction" available, they still serve a useful purpose.

[Dustin Fireblade]

So it took them 12 hours to surround the facility....and three months later they were able to fully secure it to the point that they could declare it a state.
Not that its not impressive in its own right. Surrounding cities with military units prior to a full push into the city takes days or weeks in the real world so being able to set up a full siege line in twelve hours is pretty impressive. Though I would suspect that the 4th Army is the CS Rapid Response Force, and that other units may be a bit slower.

I'm not sure I believe it took them three months to secure the area, though that may have been a consideration; more likely it was a more extensive survey of the facility followed by a plan to declare the area a state (which would involve moving civilians, plans for creating/renovating infrastructure for them, etc). Remember there wasn't much, if anything in this area when the CS arrived. I'd guess the only actual city in the state at this time frame (68 PA) was Los Alamos.

Side note - the 4th Army may have been the RDF at the time, but they became the garrison for Lone Star.

[Mack]

So here's another way to consider it.

The response time to a unit in the field is a result of speed and distance. So let's take a look at how long it actually takes. Here's a table with some quick speeds and distances.

Code: Select all

           200mph    300mph    400mph    500mph
5 miles    1.5 min   1.0 min   0.75 min  0.6 min
10 miles   3.0 min   2.0 min   1.5 min   1.2 min
15 miles   4.5 min   3.0 min   2.3 min   1.8 min
20 miles   6.0 min   4.0 min   3.0 min   2.4 min

Our question is how far away would we let a squad go, and what air assets do we have available. Since we're talking about an infantry squad, then they will be on a fairly short leash--I'll go with 10 miles (although I feel that is way too generous for guys on foot). Even an old SAMAS can make 300mph, and would cover that distance in 2.0 minutes. A Super Sam can hit 500mph, and would be there in 1.2 minutes. A Wind Jammer Sky Cycle is even faster... and these are just assets that we can reasonably expect to be part of any small unit.

Now, we can also factor in a bit of time for the response team to get moving. Maybe they were already flying, maybe they were on the ground eating a sandwich. I'd throw in another minute or two just for them to get going in the right direction. (GM's call.)

[Subjugator]

I'd say it depends on the value of the people calling it in, the value of the area being protected, and the value of the target for which they are requesting assistance.

If Ross Underhill requests assistance with a flight of ancient Great Horned dragons that is attacking a town of 40,000 people that the CS wants to join them, I think he'd get it in a matter of moments.

If a three man CS grunt squad requests assistance with a single warlock backed up by a single minor elemental and they're in the middle of the wilderness, 400 miles from the nearest major settlement, I think they'd get it...in a while...if they got it at all.

/Sub

[glitterboy2098]

probably one of the better depictions of the real world response process in film.. which is funny because it's from transformers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjTIpSu7npE

it's heavily condensed for screen time but they call out the timing.. from initial communications contact, 2 minutes for a recon drone, then a couple more for an airstrike and AC-130 to be vectored in (in reality, these would more likely have been aircraft already in the air on standby, but the film went for the dramatic takeoff shots), then when the enemy is defeated/driven off, the unit holds for evac.

[flatline]

How many death head transports does the CS have?

--flatline

[Aaryq]

I'd say it depends on the value of the people calling it in, the value of the area being protected, and the value of the target for which they are requesting assistance.

If Ross Underhill requests assistance with a flight of ancient Great Horned dragons that is attacking a town of 40,000 people that the CS wants to join them, I think he'd get it in a matter of moments.

If a three man CS grunt squad requests assistance with a single warlock backed up by a single minor elemental and they're in the middle of the wilderness, 400 miles from the nearest major settlement, I think they'd get it...in a while...if they got it at all.

/Sub

I disagree completely.
First off: Why would the CS send a 3 man "squad" out 400 miles from the nearest settlement? This isn't the empire and the soldiers aren't stormtroopers. The soldiers would have a reason to be there, even if it is just for recon. If they sent soldiers out there that means the mission has some importance. If the mission had some importance, they would support the mission. The would have a way to contact the CS for CAS, CASEVAC, Resupply, or many more other reasons and the commander would know that going into the mission.

Really the only way that a group would get cut off like that are as follows:
A senior general wants someone killed and sends them on a suicide mission
Aerial assets are all tied up because of an attack on that base.
IT'S A TRAP! The aerial forces take to the sky as planned and the squad is just bait to shoot them down...

I'm sure there are other reasons but it seems unrealistic that they just leave CS troops out there to die for no reason.

[Subjugator]

I disagree completely.

You're allowed to do that.

First off: Why would the CS send a 3 man "squad" out 400 miles from the nearest settlement?

It's called a 'hypothetical example.' It was meant to be a rather extreme example of someone who was unlikely to get help.

This isn't the empire and the soldiers aren't stormtroopers. The soldiers would have a reason to be there, even if it is just for recon. If they sent soldiers out there that means the mission has some importance. If the mission had some importance, they would support the mission. The would have a way to contact the CS for CAS, CASEVAC, Resupply, or many more other reasons and the commander would know that going into the mission.

Some importance does not mean automatic support. It means that if they encounter something that is believed to be outside of the scope of something they should be able to handle themselves, and the resources are close enough to be effective, and the resources are actually available, then they'll get support.

Usually.

Really the only way that a group would get cut off like that are as follows:
A senior general wants someone killed and sends them on a suicide mission
Aerial assets are all tied up because of an attack on that base.
IT'S A TRAP! The aerial forces take to the sky as planned and the squad is just bait to shoot them down...

...or the support vehicles aren't close enough to arrive in time.
...or the support vehicles are already in use.
...or the support vehicles are grounded pending further orders.
...or the response is that they can handle it themselves.
...or a zillion other reasons that go beyond the scope of this discussion.

Like this:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/08/7 ... rines.html

...or this...

http://archive.marinecorpstimes.com/art ... under-fire

I'm sure there are other reasons but it seems unrealistic that they just leave CS troops out there to die for no reason.

Well, it happens...and I promise you that if the general in charge of the entire military presence in Afghanistan was in either or both of those two incidents, he'd have had air strikes coming in pronto. Not all items are of the same importance, and no military operation has an unlimited supply of arms, armor, personnel, or aircraft, and one must make decisions on that basis. One of the times when one requires an immediate response is when a person of central importance is put at risk. The three man squad I described is not going to have a figure of central importance therein.

That was the ENTIRE point of my comment.

/Sub

[The Beast]

How many death head transports does the CS have?

--flatline

All of them.

[Subjugator]

Well, all but one. Larsen's Brigade has one.

[Lenwen]

Several posters would have us all believe that the coalition would send out various CS military assets if they lost enough military hardware to a mysterious aggressor .

Canonly.. This has simply proven to be not true what so ever.. So my question is where / why .. Would anyone want to portray their opinions as canon fact ?

Fact: Shemerrians utterly crush ANY and ALL coalition forces with out hesitation or provocation on the part of the CS expeditionary forces . ( Shemerrians nation book clearly states this is fact.

Fact: Black market has gone toe to toe with the CS many times yet the coalition has not sent dedicated field armies out to locate and find them (even tho the CS knows they sell stolen CS .. Well everything.. ) for verification of this the rifts black market is great reading.

Fact: Atlantean forces roam where ever they want on north America and have multiple bases as well and those forces have taken out multiple coalition forces all the time again the CS does not send out entire field armies to crush this force why not ??

Fact: larsens company stolen TONS.. Of CS stuff to include a dht.. Yet the ca has not sent greater assets to recover or exact revenge..

Those are just off the top of my head that I know about ..

Canonly the coalition does in fact NOT.. Send out greater assets to "assist" or to "destroy" forces that regularly pray on or out right hunt them..

So why do people attempt to portray it thee completely opposite of what the books say ??

[Subjugator]

Several posters would have us all believe that the coalition would send out various CS military assets if they lost enough military hardware to a mysterious aggressor .

Canonly.. This has simply proven to be not true what so ever.. So my question is where / why .. Would anyone want to portray their opinions as canon fact ?

Fact: Shemerrians utterly crush ANY and ALL coalition forces with out hesitation or provocation on the part of the CS expeditionary forces . ( Shemerrians nation book clearly states this is fact.

Fact: Black market has gone toe to toe with the CS many times yet the coalition has not sent dedicated field armies out to locate and find them (even tho the CS knows they sell stolen CS .. Well everything.. ) for verification of this the rifts black market is great reading.

Fact: Atlantean forces roam where ever they want on north America and have multiple bases as well and those forces have taken out multiple coalition forces all the time again the CS does not send out entire field armies to crush this force why not ??

Fact: larsens company stolen TONS.. Of CS stuff to include a dht.. Yet the ca has not sent greater assets to recover or exact revenge..

Those are just off the top of my head that I know about ..

Canonly the coalition does in fact NOT.. Send out greater assets to "assist" or to "destroy" forces that regularly pray on or out right hunt them..

So why do people attempt to portray it thee completely opposite of what the books say ??

But don't you know that unrealistic claims to the contrary override what the books specifically state?

/Sub

[Dustin Fireblade]

How many death head transports does the CS have?

--flatline

Enough to fly 30,000 troops to Europe during the middle of the Tolkeen war.

[The Beast]

Well, all but one. Larsen's Brigade has one.

Eh. Close enough for government work.

[flatline]

//
Enough to fly 30,000 troops to Europe during the middle of the Tolkeen war.[/quote]

If they did it in a single trip, that sets the lower limit at 30000/384 = 78.125 death head transports (probably more since they probably brought some vehicles, too).

I would think that the DHT gets used strategically to move troops around rather than tactically to respond to combat situations in progress. SAMAS and Sky Cycles would probably be the units most likely to respond to a distress call. The fighters also seem like they would receive limited use at best in this role. But that's just my opinion.

--flatline

[Alrik Vas]

I think that for the most part, flatline has the right of it, but if there are stronger air elements in the area, it could mean a much beefier response.

[Alrik Vas]

How many death head transports does the CS have?

--flatline

to this, I don't know the real numbers, but there were 2300 C-130's built as of 2009, and 250 C-17's by the same reckoning.

the majority of C-130's were for military use of various forces around the world..

its safe to put the number of DHT's in the 300+ mark if its their main strategic transport.