There are no "powers that be"

[Lenwen]

The infamous "Powers that be" line .. as to why Atlantis won't conquer Rifts earth. Clearly no longer exsists due entirely to the Megaverse in Flames giving reasons as to why this or that and everything why no one else will touch it, Does not make sense what so ever.

Anyone else with me on this train of thought ?

[Chronicler]

Haven't read Megaverse in flames yet, but if there is nothing from stopping anyone for taking rifts earth then I can see it as the next story arc as every power block in the verse will make a land grab. World War Rifts anyone?

[Zamion138]

If that happened some how it would be included that cyber knights will "play a pivatol role" in the defense of earth.
I know people say its the cs that is mary sue but its actualy the cyber knights

[HWalsh]

If that happened some how it would be included that cyber knights will "play a pivatol role" in the defense of earth.
I know people say its the cs that is mary sue but its actualy the cyber knights

How in the heck?

No offense here but Cyber-Knights aren't exactly painted as the the defenders of Rifts Earth here. They are decent against tech, but until the upgrade in SoT4 they were lame ducks compared to Juicers, Crazies, and Glitterboy Pilots.

The CKs lost at Tolkeen. They have scored no solid victories. They simply aren't Mary Sue potentials.

[grandmaster z0b]

RUE Cyber Knights are pretty powerful, particularly against tech. Master Psionic CKs are also nasty. However yes they aren't particularly kick ass against the supernatural.

[HWalsh]

RUE Cyber Knights are pretty powerful, particularly against tech. Master Psionic CKs are also nasty. However yes they aren't particularly kick ass against the supernatural.

RUE Cyber-Knights are the SoT4 Cyber-Knights.

Yeah they can be nasty. Mary Sue though? Hardly.

[Brayon]

RUE Cyber Knights are pretty powerful, particularly against tech. Master Psionic CKs are also nasty. However yes they aren't particularly kick ass against the supernatural.

RUE Cyber-Knights are the SoT4 Cyber-Knights.

Yeah they can be nasty. Mary Sue though? Hardly.

There are some differences between RUE CKs and SoT4 CKs.

In RUE the way to determine Psionics, and the None, Minor, Major, Master powers, ISP, and other factors is different vrs SoT4. Also, the RUE book has the Cowboy/Horsemanship categories under Other Skills (with restrictions/bonuses) and expanded secondary skills that SoT4 doesn't have.

Otherwise, I do agree with you. CKs are not a Mary Sue or Gary Stu at all.

[grandmaster z0b]

RUE Cyber Knights are pretty powerful, particularly against tech. Master Psionic CKs are also nasty. However yes they aren't particularly kick ass against the supernatural.

RUE Cyber-Knights are the SoT4 Cyber-Knights.

Yeah they can be nasty. Mary Sue though? Hardly.

Well I wasn't 100% sure what you meant by "Mary Sue", generally that term refers to a unrealistic and idealized character that often reflects the author, it doesn't generally mean "a kick ass character class that can affect meta plot". Which is why I never mentioned it, but I did want to point out that the post-SoT CKs (much more conveniently and accurately referred to as RUE CKs) aren't anything to sneeze at.

They are one of the few classes that get lots of skills, good combat bonuses and special powers. In the game I'm currently running we have two, one of which is a Master Psychic and the other who is a Heavy Weapons expert. They both have TW armor and can kick a surprising amount of ass.

[HWalsh]

RUE Cyber Knights are pretty powerful, particularly against tech. Master Psionic CKs are also nasty. However yes they aren't particularly kick ass against the supernatural.

RUE Cyber-Knights are the SoT4 Cyber-Knights.

Yeah they can be nasty. Mary Sue though? Hardly.

Well I wasn't 100% sure what you meant by "Mary Sue", generally that term refers to a unrealistic and idealized character that often reflects the author, it doesn't generally mean "a kick ass character class that can affect meta plot". Which is why I never mentioned it, but I did want to point out that the post-SoT CKs (much more conveniently and accurately referred to as RUE CKs) aren't anything to sneeze at.

They are one of the few classes that get lots of skills, good combat bonuses and special powers. In the game I'm currently running we have two, one of which is a Master Psychic and the other who is a Heavy Weapons expert. They both have TW armor and can kick a surprising amount of ass.

I was referencing Zamion's claims that CKs were Mary Sues.

[grandmaster z0b]

OK, I see. But as I said I never mentioned Mary Sues.

[Zamion138]

I have defense and examples for my statement but it will have to wait for tommarrow when im not on a cell phone and tired.

[HWalsh]

I have defense and examples for my statement but it will have to wait for tommarrow when im not on a cell phone and tired.

I'm curious personally is all. If anything in Rifts is a Mary Sue I'd have to give it to the Glitterboy before anything else is all...

[taalismn]

Glitterboys aren't really Mary Sues; they're bricks, yes, but smart opponents can whittle them down(admittedly, though, you're going to get pretty well sandblasted in the process), but skill-wise they're not much better than anybody else, and outside their armor, they're hardly special.

[smashed]

I see it as proof that old Splynn was right. Neither the Demons or the Deevils are claiming Rifts Earth unopposed. They are competing with each other, they have to deal with the natives, they are going to end up having to deal with the Splugorth, and the Yama Kings, the various Gods that have set up shop on Rifts Earth, the Gods that have an interest in Rifts Earth. It's a huge massive mess of a conflict, which is exactly what Splynn doesn't seem to want.

[Killer Cyborg]

The infamous "Powers that be" line .. as to why Atlantis won't conquer Rifts earth. Clearly no longer exsists due entirely to the Megaverse in Flames giving reasons as to why this or that and everything why no one else will touch it, Does not make sense what so ever.

Anyone else with me on this train of thought ?

Seems like a decent point.

Of course, it could be that the PTB are powers that affect and/or interact with the Splugorth, but not the demon, and the repercussions might not be strictly violent.

[Shark_Force]

i don't recall anything stating that earth was impossible to conquer because of the powers that be.

i do recall that splynncryth wasn't taking over the entire planet because it would be virtually impossible for him to hold it all anyways, which is not the same thing at all as saying that nobody can do it.

also, from what i've heard, i have my doubts that earth is under that much threat. the invasion foothold locations have been noted as being large, obvious, very vulnerable targets that are difficult to establish and relatively easy to destroy by those who have the book.

i mean, i haven't read it myself yet, so it's entirely possible i'm missing something because those who made those remarks missed something, but i haven't seen anything to suggest that the portals are terribly likely to stick around for long once everyone gets going.

[Tor]

Perhaps PTB refers to Coalition or NGR or Cordoba. Maybe Atlantis does not want to incite hundreds of volleys of LRMs sent their way through frontal assaults.

Better to just let the humans breed and pick off slaves from their edges, sabotage their growth from shadows, etc.

[glitterboy2098]

I see it as proof that old Splynn was right. Neither the Demons or the Deevils are claiming Rifts Earth unopposed. They are competing with each other, they have to deal with the natives, they are going to end up having to deal with the Splugorth, and the Yama Kings, the various Gods that have set up shop on Rifts Earth, the Gods that have an interest in Rifts Earth. It's a huge massive mess of a conflict, which is exactly what Splynn doesn't seem to want.

pretty much.

we have what?
the egyptian pantheon?
the Norse Pantheon?
the Greek pantheon?
the Hindu pantheon?
the persian pantheon?
the Aztec/mayan pantheon?
all with members interested in rifts earth and minions running around?

and the chinese pantheon taking an active role in their area?
the Yama kings have direct control over a large area?
the Japanese pantheon literally lives in japan now.
the Incan pantheon also lives in Peru.

you also have the Splugorth and the Naruni using the planet as a source of income.
you have the Megaversal Legion calling it their main base.

and now the demons and deevils

Splynncryth has the manpower to totally curbstop any of the natives if he wants. but if he did, you can bet one or more of the others would get involved in various fashions.. most of the pantheons don't much liek the splugorth and would try to aid their followers (or those who used ot be their followers), the Naruni would be selling guns to everyone they can. and now with the deevils and Demons, they'd be popping up to cause trouble as well.

[wadou25]

one interesting scenario i thought up is how the lizard people of lagarto would treat the arrival of Deevil Dragons. Certainly some would worship them as gods

[Tor]

I just heard that -we will defend our island- speech from Churchill in this -The World Wars- history channel series...

now for some reason am picturing Splynncryth stealing it

[SolCannibal]

one interesting scenario i thought up is how the lizard people of lagarto would treat the arrival of Deevil Dragons. Certainly some would worship them as gods

But wouldn't the same apply to someonw like K’zaa the lizard mage ruler of Stormspire? Going by CB1 the lizard mages are somewhere between greater demons and adult dragons in power level, seriously scary beings indeed and K’zaa is a very experienced and established member of the race in Rifts Earth ruling a city with a center capable of teleport. I think he and the Republic of Lagarto could have a hell of a time with each other.

[Tor]

That would be some interesting chemistry. Lizard Mages are certainly accepted in Lagarto but K'zaa could experience some problems with them. They are backed by Atlantis and so is Dunscon and Dunscon does not like how K'zaa doesn't suck up to him within FoM.

[SolCannibal]

That would be some interesting chemistry. Lizard Mages are certainly accepted in Lagarto but K'zaa could experience some problems with them. They are backed by Atlantis and so is Dunscon and Dunscon does not like how K'zaa doesn't suck up to him within FoM.

Indeed, though i ask myself how much do the Splugorth actually know about his operation, it's a good guess they know far more about it (having the Shadow Warriors and who knows what other spy cells checking out North America for them) than K'zaa knows about South America, otherwise it's doubtful he would ignore a place like Lagarto.

That said, it's Atlantis we are speaking of - if pantheons like Dragonwright, the egyptian Taut and the Aztec are no more than allies or occasional associates and an adult dragon like Rama-Set a convenient pawn, it ain't a upjumped spellcasting lizard that will scare the minions of Splynn. They might even see him as a potential tool to be redirected to the right place...

[Alrik Vas]

The powers that be spoken about in various books don't refer to a mysterious elder God/creator, but merely "the powers that be", as in the existing powers of rifts. Gods, dragons, nations, that sort if thing. Splynn could rule the world, just like anyone else, if they formed and dissolved the proper alliances.

[The Beast]

I just heard that -we will defend our island- speech from Churchill in this -The World Wars- history channel series...

now for some reason am picturing Splynncryth stealing it

He can't steal the United Kingdom. The Doctor would stop him.

[SolCannibal]

The powers that be spoken about in various books don't refer to a mysterious elder God/creator, but merely "the powers that be", as in the existing powers of rifts. Gods, dragons, nations, that sort if thing. Splynn could rule the world, just like anyone else, if they formed and dissolved the proper alliances.

Yes, the actual problem might be that not only is Rifts Earth quite disputed prime ground but Splynn already has rivals of his own, in and out of the Splugorth, to contend with without added hassle. Also, he seems to prefer to go at things smooth and slow, more the reason not to rock the boat too hard and get more attention than Atlantis already does.

[Svartalf]

I just heard that -we will defend our island- speech from Churchill in this -The World Wars- history channel series...

now for some reason am picturing Splynncryth stealing it

He can't steal the United Kingdom. The Doctor would stop him.

Has the Doctor interfered with the nefarious Zazshan?

[SolCannibal]

I just heard that -we will defend our island- speech from Churchill in this -The World Wars- history channel series...

now for some reason am picturing Splynncryth stealing it

He can't steal the United Kingdom. The Doctor would stop him.

Has the Doctor interfered with the nefarious Zazshan?

Probably busy with the Angel of Death's psionic Cybermen or somesuch.

[Svartalf]

Too bad adaptations are a no no, or I'd have the daleks strike up an alliance with the mechanoids...

[SolCannibal]

Too bad adaptations are a no no, or I'd have the daleks strike up an alliance with the mechanoids...

It's ok if it goes in your games, you just can't post it here.
As an aside, how would the Mechanoids and the (now non-canonical) Manhunters interact with each other?

[Svartalf]

Too bad adaptations are a no no, or I'd have the daleks strike up an alliance with the mechanoids...

It's ok if it goes in your games, you just can't post it here.
As an aside, how would the Mechanoids and the (now non-canonical) Manhunters interact with each other?

Never thought about it, I'd have to exhume Rifts Manhunter and read it again with this in mind.

[SolCannibal]

Too bad adaptations are a no no, or I'd have the daleks strike up an alliance with the mechanoids...

It's ok if it goes in your games, you just can't post it here.
As an aside, how would the Mechanoids and the (now non-canonical) Manhunters interact with each other?

Never thought about it, I'd have to exhume Rifts Manhunter and read it again with this in mind.

It crossed my mind because beside some similarities, i have honestly no idea if they would see each other as potential allies or oppenents.

[Library Ogre]

I've long held that Rifts Earth is somewhat in a cold war situation... no one can really gather the power necessary to quickly take over the planet, and so they move chess pieces around until everyone dies of old age.

Consider Atlantis. If Splynncrth made the push and called in favors, he could bring in troops from across the multiverse and flood the planet... but so could other forces. It would be bloody, it would be expensive, and it might not work, especially as there are likely to be factors he doesn't yet know about (like the various deities with an interest in Rifts Earth, or legends of great alien intelligences sleeping at some place called Ry'leh...), and factors he does know about but we don't yet.

So what does he do? He waits and he builds. Tests the defenses of native and alien cultures with raiding parties. Slowly spreads out a network of Splynn-controlled pyramids.... which double as deployment centers for his forces, should it come to that. You build a pyramid, you also lock down a nexus point, and prevent others from easily using it as an insertion point for their forces.

Right now, he's building a Maginot line... but he's aware that people can just drive around it.

[Shark_Force]

splynncryth doesn't need the whole planet. it's valuable as a market. he has a market.

defensively, it's a nightmare. trying to hold the entire place would be pure misery. the entire reason he cares about rifts earth more than he cares about any other planet in the megaverse is that rifts earth is a dimensional hot spot, and is easy to get to and from comparatively speaking. that's it. but you don't need an entire planet to benefit from that.

no, if anything splynncryth might seriously consider "raids" strong enough to obliterate dimensional market competitors located on rifts earth, but he has virtually nothing to gain from holding the entire thing, and the very feature that makes it valuable as a market means that it's nigh impossible to defend the place unless you fortify every square inch of it, because your enemies can show up out of anywhere.

furthermore, it's valuable as a sort of hunting preserve for his slavers. any slave raised in his pens is a far greater expense than captured slaves, and he's even leveraged the "wildness" of the captured slaves to his advantage (in the t-man OCC it mentions that having a less brainwashed t-man is actually considered a good thing by some)

[Blue_Lion]

splynncryth doesn't need the whole planet. it's valuable as a market. he has a market.

defensively, it's a nightmare. trying to hold the entire place would be pure misery. the entire reason he cares about rifts earth more than he cares about any other planet in the megaverse is that rifts earth is a dimensional hot spot, and is easy to get to and from comparatively speaking. that's it. but you don't need an entire planet to benefit from that.

no, if anything splynncryth might seriously consider "raids" strong enough to obliterate dimensional market competitors located on rifts earth, but he has virtually nothing to gain from holding the entire thing, and the very feature that makes it valuable as a market means that it's nigh impossible to defend the place unless you fortify every square inch of it, because your enemies can show up out of anywhere.

furthermore, it's valuable as a sort of hunting preserve for his slavers. any slave raised in his pens is a far greater expense than captured slaves, and he's even leveraged the "wildness" of the captured slaves to his advantage (in the t-man OCC it mentions that having a less brainwashed t-man is actually considered a good thing by some)

That was more my take on it, not worth the trouble of fighting people there for control.
Much better to use it as market and he is one of the powers that prevent taking over the whole.

[flatline]

All the advantages of conquering Rifts Earth can be had by simply conquering a smaller, more easily held part of Rifts Earth.

The only reason I can think of that anyone would want to conquer the whole planet would be to deny those advantages to anyone else.

Unless someone can point out profitable resources on Rifts Earth that would make holding the whole planet worth something?

--flatline

[Shark_Force]

assuming you mean resources that would be more profitable than could be gained from taking over any number of other much more easily defended places that are less appealing of a target as well, there isn't much.

you could argue that capturing a millenium tree would be quite valuable. i'm not sure it's more useful than what they've got going with the eyes of eylor, particularly since the indication appears to be that eylor seems to have an almost limitless supply, but it's possible they're rationed in the number of eyes they get and therefore would benefit from having a source of corrupted millenium items, provided they have some way of forcing the millenium tree to give them up (which it seems like the splugorth would have that sort of thing). still, that wouldn't require you to take over the whole thing, merely a single location (and the splugorth haven't done it yet, which suggests they don't particularly see much point to it).

there are also a few really valuable plants in england if you have the people to enchant them. supposedly the one that can be made into a crystal ball has a market value over 100 million credits, iirc. if the splugorth could find a way to domesticate entire groups of maxpary (which per the conversion book seem to have made their way to rifts earth), i seem to recall they produce some very useful mushrooms and a fancy orb that lets you cast elemental magic.

but mostly, there isn't really much that couldn't instead be captured, brought back to atlantis (or one of the other planets splynncryth owns), and kept there.

what's more, as i said, rifts earth holds some value to them for hunting slaves that they did not have to invest years of effort into training.

as to denying others the advantage, you'd have to control the whole thing when, as we've already noted, they only need to hold a small area to get the full benefit. much better to just regularly raid your competition. it makes their market less safe (and therefore less appealing), it takes away their valuable goods, and it adds to your own stockpile of valuable goods. plus, it takes a lot less effort to hold; you don't need to fortify anything beyond the territory you use as a marketplace, which you were already going to have to defend whether you raid or not.

[ShadowLogan]

Perhaps PTB refers to Coalition or NGR or Cordoba. Maybe Atlantis does not want to incite hundreds of volleys of LRMs sent their way through frontal assaults.

Better to just let the humans breed and pick off slaves from their edges, sabotage their growth from shadows, etc.

Your joking right? Aside from Atlantis basically steam rolling right over all 3 with shear numbers at once:
-the CS wasn't around when Splyn. set up shop on Atlantis so would not be a factor (and it hasn't stopped Atlantis from establishing a Colony in NA)
-Cordoba really isn't capable of projecting power that far IIRC
-NGR only recently picked up a navy (in Underseas), so its questionable if they where a factor when Splyn set up shop during the Dark Ages (IIRC)

It is true that Splyn could take out the Vampire Kindoms and the Bugs in NA, but he doesn't want to alarm the natives (IIRC). But it seems unlikely that they (the 3 states you mention) would be a major factor into his decision making process as far as policy is concerned. Splyn seems interested in keeping the NGR and Garyolyes tied down, but is willing to help either side out if necessary (so unlikely sees the NGR as something to worry over).

[Tor]

I just heard that -we will defend our island- speech from Churchill in this -The World Wars- history channel series...

now for some reason am picturing Splynncryth stealing it

He can't steal the United Kingdom. The Doctor would stop him.

The speech, not the Kingdom.

Although he could steal both, he already has conquered London, I think maybe what happened to Missy in the finale may have happened to the Doctor by this time. Well, time being relative, that is.

Cordoba really isn't capable of projecting power that far IIRC

Their LRM elephants are landbound so that limits them in regard to dominating oceans compared to those with LRMs on boats or planes, but an 1800 mile radius around your Republic is still pretty god.

[The Beast]

Too bad adaptations are a no no, or I'd have the daleks strike up an alliance with the mechanoids...

It's ok if it goes in your games, you just can't post it here.
As an aside, how would the Mechanoids and the (now non-canonical) Manhunters interact with each other?

Manhunters says they would team-up for short-term goals, but a long-term one wouldn't last due to each side trying to use the other side for their own goals.

[SolCannibal]

Too bad adaptations are a no no, or I'd have the daleks strike up an alliance with the mechanoids...

It's ok if it goes in your games, you just can't post it here.
As an aside, how would the Mechanoids and the (now non-canonical) Manhunters interact with each other?

Manhunters says they would team-up for short-term goals, but a long-term one wouldn't last due to each side trying to use the other side for their own goals.

Whatever and wherever those different and unconciliable goals of theirs might be...

[Tor]

the (now non-canonical) Manhunters

It's like the Hellfire expansion for Diablo. The more Blizzard tries to deny its legitimacy, the cooler it seems, the more we care.

[SolCannibal]

Anyway back on "powers that be" subject and such, i ask myself what rivals or enemies of Splynn might also be eyeing Rifts Earth.
So far i know of Zazshan/Mrrlyin and Wothancrellyth/Wothan the Slayer, who seen both to be somewhat interested in New Camelot.

[Zer0 Kay]

Idealized and unrealistic = Mary Sue
Then CS = KS's Mary Sue
The guy that embezeled the company HIS Mary Sue are the CKs.
The GBs are a red herring for us so we don't see the Mary Sueness of the CS.

[Zer0 Kay]

Too bad adaptations are a no no, or I'd have the daleks strike up an alliance with the mechanoids...

The Daleks would never ally with the Mechanoids they are imperfect and so they must be ExTeRmInAtEd.

Maybe the Mechanoids and the Cybermen though. Nasty if they use the new nanobot cybermen that can raindown and turn corpses to cybermen.

[Zer0 Kay]

This doublepost is gone like tears... In rain. Not in time to delete.

[Tor]

Nasty if they use the new nanobot cybermen that can

Spoiler:

raindown and turn corpses to cybermen

.

Yeah, not to mention

Spoiler:

fly, although I got the impression that these were due to Master/Mistress enhancements that Cybermen as a whole may not have access to, and I thought Danny Pink destroyed them all.

[SolCannibal]

As an aside, what forces in the Megaverse might consider allying with the Mechanoids & vice-versa?

[Nightmask]

As an aside, what forces in the Megaverse might consider allying with the Mechanoids & vice-versa?

Forces devoted to death and murder, particularly those that can manage a non-humanoid appearance (at least one evil death goddess is trying to build herself a new non-humanoid body so she can hook up with the Mechanoids and reap the fruits of such mass murder).

[Shark_Force]

NEXUS might. then again, they might not. it's hard to predict what an insane AI with seven different major personalities (and hundreds of minor personalities) might do. eve might force them to preserve at least some humans, freya might resent the required destruction of her cities full of humanoid androids, ishtar might just be looking for a real challenge, kali might be upset that her toys (ie humans) are being taken away, and lilith might just do it because, well, she's lilith. who knows why she does stuff.

on the other hand, eve might not be able to compel them to do anything, freya might be persuaded to make cities full of something else, ishtar might be so mad at her sisters she doesn't help (or even helps the mechanoids), kali might be excited about the promise of more toys somewhere else, and lilith, well, we've already established we don't know what she might do.

my prediction is that gaia and hecate won't have a strong opinion either way though