What is the rulings on Continuous Beam attacks?

[Niji]

For the most part things like Energy Expulsion powers not that they are shots or pulses(depending on type) or auras and flashes or even blasts.

But what about classic "beam" attacks (Uni-Beam, etc).
The wording on Super Energy Expulsion in particular implies this on the super blast(likely a leftover in context rom Rifter 1's continuous beam with knock down version) given its use off all attacks and first attack of round requirement.

Now thematically it's easy to explain away.

But I am curious if there are "official" rules for continuous beam weapon fire, especially at stationary objects.

Also "moving" or sweeping with the beam I am curious about(comic book context: continuous beam attacks are extremely common so I am very annoyed rules for this are not in the core book or GM guide despite many dozens of pages talking about basic punching...).

[MADMANMIKE]

The super energy expulsion super blast uses up the attacks because it's an action that temporarily weakens the character.

I don't think anyone has done rules for continuous beam weapon fire, but I'll ask Carmen the next time we talk.

[Chronicle]

I would assume it does damage per melee. Reasonable math should be used. That being said a stationary target should be used. Any dodge can avoid it I am sure.

[Incriptus]

I just happened to be reading up on the plasma thrower from Rifts Juicer's Uprising, because one of my characters is thinking about using one. This is as close as I can find for an official rule.

A short plasma burst does 3d6
A concentrated plasma burst (counts as two attacks; 7 seconds) does 1d4x10+10
Or the attacker can cover an area with plasma; up to 10 feet can be covered with each hand to hand melee attack/action, so a character with four hand to hand attacks could cover an area or length of 40 feet; everybody in the area affected takes 2d6.

So in short ... nobody knows, just make it up as you go along.

If I were going to house rule it, on the spot then ...

Standard Attack: Standard Damage
Sustained Attack vs Moving Target: Standard Damage each melee attack, still need to roll to strike, functionally identical to two standard attacks.
Sustained Attack vs Stationary Target: Takes 2 attacks, does triple damage (Theory being that a sustained attack that takes 2 attacks should do more damage than 2 standard non-sustained attacks)
Sweeping Attack: 1/2 damage, single attack roll against all targets within the 10' area being swept per melee attack.

[Tor]

Trying to figure out a tactical use for this power aspect.

All I can figure is... surprise attacks, or trying to 1-hit a guy with a simultaneous attack.

[Incriptus]

Trying to figure out a tactical use for this power aspect.

All I can figure is... surprise attacks, or trying to 1-hit a guy with a simultaneous attack.

Intentionally make a character without hand to hand skills, that way "all but one attack" is really 1 attack? ... Find someone way to only have 1 attack per melee so it's legally speaking zero attacks

[Tor]

Interesting... is there even a once-per-melee limit on that?

[Niji]

There is indeed, I think the minimum actions per melee is two, but you can get penalized -1 attack from missing limbs/etc.

Lol that sounds like gaming the system, like tor said its for coordinated simultanious attacks, or trying to "burr" through a ship's hull/pushing an encroaching giant sized target back with the "force" of the continous damage(flames/heat/radiation/cold/sound cause a lot of back draft/potential motion though energy or electricity would have a different effect logically), blocking a narrow passage with an easily dodged but impassible beam, or bouncing a continous laser beam off mirrored surfaces for puzzle solving in complicated villain lairs(this one comes up more than one would think).

Was mostly concerned if it would be perhaps just considered area of affect and auto hit anything in a so many feet wide/tall so many feet long beam(falling tree logic for avoiding, step to the side slightly or try to "run away" from its range... Though "stunned" foe's would make great targets...(mental stun abuse? It sure would play out REALLY showy!). I know there is some flame thrower rules out there. The plasma thrower seems to be the most logical one I suppose.

[Tor]

It's a system for a game, we're supposed to game it

[Malakai]

I would look at the Firearms/Modern Weapons rules regarding bursts and sprays, as that most closely resembles what you are talking about. I've also used said rules on Robot energy weapons and have described such as continuous beams.

[Niji]

@Malakai
Alright thanks!

Thanks to everyone else too!

[eliakon]

It's a system for a game, we're supposed to game it

No we are supposed to play the game. You can choose to interpret that as 'we must game the system as much as possible' but that would just be how you choose to play, not how its designed to be played. There is a subtle difference.

[NMI]

Trying to figure out a tactical use for this power aspect.

All I can figure is... surprise attacks, or trying to 1-hit a guy with a simultaneous attack.

Intentionally make a character without hand to hand skills, that way "all but one attack" is really 1 attack? ... Find someone way to only have 1 attack per melee so it's legally speaking zero attacks

If you only had only 1 attack per melee, but you had to pay "actions/attacks" to use a special ability while still holding onto at least 1 attack/action, you would not be able to use said ability.

[Nightmask]

Trying to figure out a tactical use for this power aspect.

All I can figure is... surprise attacks, or trying to 1-hit a guy with a simultaneous attack.

Intentionally make a character without hand to hand skills, that way "all but one attack" is really 1 attack? ... Find someone way to only have 1 attack per melee so it's legally speaking zero attacks

If you only had only 1 attack per melee, but you had to pay "actions/attacks" to use a special ability while still holding onto at least 1 attack/action, you would not be able to use said ability.

Which would be on the illogical/ridiculous end of things, to have an ability but not be able to use it. If you've got an ability you should be able to use it, the only abilities you shouldn't be able to use are those you don't actually have.

[eliakon]

Trying to figure out a tactical use for this power aspect.

All I can figure is... surprise attacks, or trying to 1-hit a guy with a simultaneous attack.

Intentionally make a character without hand to hand skills, that way "all but one attack" is really 1 attack? ... Find someone way to only have 1 attack per melee so it's legally speaking zero attacks

If you only had only 1 attack per melee, but you had to pay "actions/attacks" to use a special ability while still holding onto at least 1 attack/action, you would not be able to use said ability.

Which would be on the illogical/ridiculous end of things, to have an ability but not be able to use it. If you've got an ability you should be able to use it, the only abilities you shouldn't be able to use are those you don't actually have.

Why? If it costs X, and you cant pay X, then you cant use it until such time as you can pay X.

[Tor]

Is "all but 1" necessarily a minimum of 1?

[eliakon]

Is "all but 1" necessarily a minimum of 1?

To spend "all but" you would need to spend at least 1. To also have "but 1" means that after spending you need one attack left.
So to use an ability that spends all but one action, you would need two actions. One to spend, and one to have left.

[Tor]

I would probably figure that in on base attacks and ignore added ones from stuff like tails/tentacles/breath though.

[Niji]

Correct, English terminology defines that "all but one" requires there to be more than one. Second it's not possible to have less than 2 actions in this game EXCEPT as a penalty for an ongoing effect. So during that time you would not be able to use it.

There is a handful of things that cost 3 actions/attacks which would bar you from using then till a higher level(which thematically would be rational and appropriate !).

Temporally losing access to the Super a Blast or similar all but one attacks is a good power limiter when you have been afflicted with stun/shock.

If you have only 2 attacks NOT using the super blast every round (over the normal attack !) would seem obvious when you need raw power. If you have 10 attacks well then it becomes a trump card/risky gamble.

Very balanced.

Using/Describing it as a continuous beam seems logical either way, with being able to sweep/move the beam a number of times equal to the # of attacks used for it -1


Graphically though using the regular attack as a burst/pulse with beam like look in terms of appropriate damage/aoe seems the way to go for fair and balanced rules.

Again thanks for the advice and overall clarification everyone!

[Tor]

not possible to have less than 2 actions in this game EXCEPT as a penalty for an ongoing effect.

Everyone forgets dual-class Hardwares.

[Iczer]

Just off the top of my head

Continuous beam

Requires: Ranged energy attack

Purpose: to simulate a continuous stream, or 'firehose' like effect with an energy attack. Pouring it on so to speak.

Mechanic: after making a strike roll with the energy attack, declare it is 'still on'. Between the end of your action and the start of your next one, you are still firing your energy attack at any and all defined targets within a 30 degree arc. If any valid targets enter that arc, the character gets a free, wild shot at that target (but the damage is halved) against unmoving or inanimate targets, the attack is rolled every round, but the damage is increased by 50%

Cost: the character loses a single attack when he declares the attack is 'still on' and continues to do so every melee round. His initiative drops to 0. He can only maintain a continuous beam for as many melee rounds as his PE score. after which he becomes fatigued (-1 atk, -2 to combat actions, -10% to skill use and reduce spd by 30%)

Caveat: a continuous beam is broken whenever the character takes an action that is not continuing to attack with the initial energy attack. also if he takes any damage, or is moved in any way, the effect ends. he cannot perform auto defences while pouring it on. Likewise, anyone trying to barrel through the energy beam must make a saving throw Vs stun (14+ PE bonuses apply) to even come close to the attacking character.

Batts