need help finding navy ship

[cawest]

I am looking at staring a navy campaign where can I find ships. I have NG1, Coalition Navy, and the Mercenaries book. not finding what i'm looking for is there another book or site I can find more thanks...

[SpiritInterface]

Try SA1-2, Rifts under seas.

What kind if vessel are you looking for?

[ShadowLogan]

And what type of information are you looking for. Palladium really hasn't done any ships with Deckplans since the 1E RT/M2 days AFAIK, and even there most of the deckplans are for starships (RDF Manual did do deckplans for the two Carriers).

[cawest]

Try SA1-2, Rifts under seas.

What kind if vessel are you looking for?

something that can fight undersea and on the sea maybe medium with sized energy weapons

[taalismn]

Try SA1-2, Rifts under seas.

What kind if vessel are you looking for?

something that can fight undersea and on the sea maybe medium with sized energy weapons

Modified Commercial Submarine from Rifts Underseas, armed with scavenged weapons from other vessels, maybe.

[Akashic Soldier]

Taalismn has had the best suggestion so far. I'd have a look at World Book: Underseas. Also, if you look around underseas you will find they have a big list of conventional sea-going vessels that do not have extremely detailed write ups. If you took to one of those with the vehicle armorer skill, it might be a good place to start out. Then go hunting for something better in game with the rest of the troop. It'd be an adventure of sorts and gives the Game Master something to work with.

[taalismn]

And, tooting my own horn, may I refer you to my I-400 'Seahorse' submarine on my Paladin Steel thread?
It can be found on THIS page:
http://www.palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=93286&start=4700&sid=00948508b5b79ef1fd620297ed0d2ac2

The smaller, but related, SSN-150 ‘Phoenicia’ can be found on THIS page:
http://www.palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=93286&start=4750&sid=00948508b5b79ef1fd620297ed0d2ac2

Still looking for a sub with surface capabilities? There's also my PS-SSN017 Bythos Light Patrol Submersible Hydrofoil:
http://www.palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=93286&start=3050&view=print

(Inspiration for the last came from this: http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_8tJT_h1gdE/T_ucYichjEI/AAAAAAAB-aM/JkWPCOxDO4s/s900/ewfqewfsdfdsfsdf.jpg )

[cawest]

the idea is that a ship will run into rift and end up in deep space and found by BSG 2003 so I did not want the ship to be to powerful. I think I will have to use the underseas book... the local game store had a copy so I picked it up.

[kaid]

CS navy/SA-1-2/underseas/mercenaries/lemuria is where you will find the vast majority of sea vessels of magic/tech origins. Underseas and CS navy books are probably the best for group oriented water options.

[glitterboy2098]

keep in mind that submarines are not well designed for space use.. they are good under water and that's it. subs lack the cooling system required for space survival.. their reactors use passive environmental water cooling, so in a vacuum they'd be unable to get rid of heat and would go china syndrome. likewise the crew compartments would be unable to get rid of heat, and would rapidly get too hot for crew survival.. just from the crew's metabolism, much less all the electronics. of course, the crew may not last that long, the seals on their hatches and ports are designed to keep air in the ship against a higher outside pressure.. they won't work when trying to keep air in against a much lower outside pressure. it would leak like a sieve, so the crew will asphyxiate almost as fast as they fry. especially since the hatches are designed to open outwards.. so that if a locking mechanism fails the outside seawater pressure keeps them shut. in space, that design makes them more likely to fail completely and explosively open and decompress the ship. the internal hatches used for damage control in the event of flooding are also not going to be air tight in a vacuum.

one a slightly ore speculative note, the turrets on rifts subs are unlikely to function either.. their seals and lubricants would be designed for use under water at high pressures. their lubricants would simultaneously freeze and boil, causing the mechanisms to seize up almost instantly upon entering vacuum.

correcting these issues would require basically a complete disassemble and rebuild.. you'd have to install a whole new cooling system with lots of radiator panels to deal with the heat, add completely new hatches and seals, redesign the airlocks completely, etc. so unless the ship is expected to go into space (which navies in rifts would not be expecting) the ship would last at best a few dozen minutes. if the crew has EBA they might last a few hours (since rifts EBA is designed to be all environmental, including low pressure environments), but i doubt that many would have EBA close at hand.

[kaid]

Also one thing to note on the converse a space ship unless specifically designed for it probably won't work well underwater. The increased pressure on the hull from the water would make stuff that works fine in space or atmosphere leak/fail if you dive very far underwater.

[glitterboy2098]

yep. which was one of the reasons i kinda scratch my head watching robotech now.. that "submersible" carrier and landing ship shouldn't have been that easy to use in space on the SDF-1, unless they had been designed from the start for it.

three galaxies ships in the phaseworld setting are specifically stated to work under water.. one would presume that submarine use wouldn't be normal, but since the atmospheres of gas giants have a lot of the same issues with pressure, they did plan for that.. and the ability to hide under a planets oceans was a nifty side effect. but unless the setting says that a ship can operate in both space and ocean, its safe to assume it was designed for just one of the two.

[ShadowLogan]

yep. which was one of the reasons i kinda scratch my head watching robotech now.. that "submersible" carrier and landing ship shouldn't have been that easy to use in space on the SDF-1, unless they had been designed from the start for it.

Well the carriers according to the notes found in 1E RDF Manual they (or just one of) are termed "semi-submersible", but the staff at Palladium changed it for 1E since they did not know what was meant by the term to fully submersible. A quick glance at 2E TMS book doesn't have anything in the SDF-1 entry (I could miss it, it was a fast skim or it could be elsewhere).

As far as Robotech itself goes, you can observe carrier class vessels in a few shots in EP3 BEFORE the spacefold in flight/space around the SDF-1 and w/n the fleet. It might be that the Carriers have a space/flight mode/configuration (as shown in Ep3), but is something that can't be done quickly. That or they retrofitted the hell out of those ships (which they would have to do on some level to connect them to the SDF-1) using them for the basic skeletal structure (and hull).

[glitterboy2098]

the problem with the retrofit theory is that for something as extensive as they'd need, you'd need more than the couple days or so we see them take.. and a lot more resources than they seemed to have.

[ShadowLogan]

I'm not much a fan of the idea myself, but that's the only other explanation that would work (in universe) if the ships aren't able to be space configured in short order. They did manage to rebuild the city/section-of w/n a two week period given the Lynn Restaurant is restored/built after Rick smashed it up with the VT-1D, so resources don't seem to be that much of a show stopper since the only thing they state out right having a shortage of in this respect is "conduit" to link the Main Gun and Reflex Furnaces w/o the Space Fold system present.

[green.nova343]

It all depends on what the "semi-submersible" means. To be fair, however, real-world supercarriers like the Nimitz-class are designed for NBC (Nuclear, Biological and Chemical) environments, where they can essentially "seal up" the interior of the ship (including the hanger decks) & use an overpressure system to keep out contaminants. So the possibility of at least being able to seal up against atmospheric pressure (possibly to 2-3 times that pressure) is at least possible based on real-world examples.

As for the "semi-submersible' part...

To be honest, I wouldn't expect these to be deep-diving "submarines" like Los Angelas-class attack subs. They don't have the "teardrop" hull that all post-Albacore subs (nuclear & conventional) use to boost their submerged speeds, & by nature of their designs the propeller shafts will be off the center midline axis so they'd have the potential for steering issues. So I think we're safe ignoring the 1E's notation about them being able to dive over a mile/1.6 km under the surface. That doesn't mean they don't have some underwater capability. And let's not forget that, for damage control purposes, nearly all military naval vessels will be designed so that they can internally block off damaged compartments to prevent flooding from spreading beyond the damaged area...& any watertight bulkheads that can withstand the pressure of the water should be more than sufficient to keep the internal atmosphere from escaping in space.

Of the two, the Daedalus-class would probably perform better (smaller island structure), but again the bow shape will create an issue with speed, not to mention make a lot of noise to show up on passive sonar; ditto for the Prometheus-class. However, the main issue is exactly how far they can go underwater. If "semi-submersible" means they can simply flood some ballast tanks & sit lower down in the water, but not fully submerge...then we don't have to go full pressure hull in the design; it just needs to be able to be sealed up about as well as if they had to ride out a hurricane. Being able to handle a few atmospheres of pressure wouldn't be a problem...but wouldn't exactly confer a lot of exo-atmospheric capability.

OTOH... if "semi-submersible" means they're limited in their diving depth (maybe 200-300ft/61-91m tops), but are capable of submerging the ship under the ocean's surface, then we're talking about something more easily adaptable to space. They still don't have to seal up as well as the deeper-diving conventional submarines, but they would require higher standards for leak suppression than standard surface vessels; greater ability to withstand leaks while submerged, especially in the traditionally weaker areas like the hanger bay doors, is going to translate over into a better capability for keeping the atmosphere inside the ship while in outer space. Not to mention that, if they're designed to spend any length of time under the surface (for example, being able to cruise for a few hundred nautical miles, before having to surface), they'll probably already have some systems on board to maintain oxygen levels & reduce carbon dioxide levels underwater, which can be supplemented via connections to the SDF-1.

If anything, I'd say the only reason they essentially lost the original crews of those ships to "death by vacuum" wasn't because they weren't able to survive in space, but because the crews weren't expecting it; no one, not even the SDF-1's crew, expected the misfold to grab a chunk of the surrounding real estate when they flew to Pluto. The only reason the civilians survived was because they were already in the blast-proof (NBC-sealed, & therefore already on autonomous oxygen supplies) shelters, but anyone left outside would have quickly died from lack of oxygen & cold. The crews on the ships found themselves unexpectedly a) open to a region with no atmosphere outside their ships, and b) a zero-g environment that would have played havoc with their ability to respond & shut the doors to conserve their oxygen.

If it makes it clearer, imagine a submarine that's on the surface, & has its main hatches open because they're performing an external inspection...& then, instead of the normal diving procedure (i.e. making sure that all hatches are closed & locked tight before they initiate diving procedures), they're instantaneously transported 800ft/244m below the ocean's surface, with the hatches still wide open. I seriously doubt they'd be able to react quickly enough to get the hatches shut...& even if they did manage to get them shut, I doubt they'd be able to do so before they took on so much water that their negative bouyancy took them below crush depth. Doesn't mean the sub's design failed, it just means its crew was in a situation impossible to survive.

[taalismn]

I always figured 'semi-submersible' meant that the vessel could lower its freeboard in the water until most of its deck was awash, lowering its visual(and radar) profile(and further hiding it in signal backscatter from waves), or just under the surface. 'Narco-subs', for instance:
http://covertshores.blogspot.com/2010/06/narco-submarines-torpedoes-and-semi.html

(BYW, the whole covertshores website is an EXCELLENT collection of smallcraft that would be at home in a Rifts adventure)

[cawest]

no i'm planning on using the ship/sub as life boat till they are found by a raptor then towed into landing bay...now what happens. it that does not work then i'm going to drop them on new Caprica after the cylons take it over or something like that.... limited supply situation. limited friends..glad no one from my group reads this page .

[drewkitty ~..~]

The Mindworks book has the ships and subs of the Tarnow kigndom

[glitterboy2098]

edit: error corrected in earlier post.