Deck plans, scale, and headache

Whether it is a Veritech or a Valkyrie, Robotech or Macross II, Earth is in danger eitherway. Grab your mecha and fight the good fight.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
Robroy
Explorer
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:39 am
Location: Tipp City, OH.

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Robroy »

I have the Sentinels. The rooms in that are 44 ft. Square, that is 1936 sq.ft. for 6 to 8 enlisted or 2 to 4 officers or one family. My three bedroom, two bath house is 1600. When I was making the berths for my deck plans I made four rooms for bunks and a small central area in a 11 x 15 ft.space, 165 sq.ft. About the size of a cabin on a cruise ship.

That is good I suppose for being cooped up on a space ship for a long time. It is just the sailor in me. My berth was a 40 x 40 ft.space that housed 120 men.
"Where ever you go, there you are"-Buckaroo Banzai

"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Way (Tao) to survival or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed"-Sun Tzu

"Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence"-Sun Tzu
User avatar
ShadowLogan
Palladin
Posts: 7655
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Location: WI

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Seto wrote: My guess would be that the average crewman would be doubling or even tripling up in a small bunkroom,

Well we do see that the Bridge Bunnies quarters to.

The 1E RPG did have crew members doubling up (at least for the Sentinels ships, I haven't checked the others).
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Knight
Posts: 5355
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Contact:

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

Robroy wrote:I have the Sentinels. The rooms in that are 44 ft. Square, that is 1936 sq.ft. for 6 to 8 enlisted or 2 to 4 officers or one family. My three bedroom, two bath house is 1600. When I was making the berths for my deck plans I made four rooms for bunks and a small central area in a 11 x 15 ft.space, 165 sq.ft. About the size of a cabin on a cruise ship.

Yeah, that seems about right... the huge crew quarters for small numbers of crewmen doesn't really make sense, but since most of them will only be in their quarters to sleep, the smaller size is more economical, especially with the larger crew size numbers given in the Robotech versions of things.



Robroy wrote:That is good I suppose for being cooped up on a space ship for a long time. It is just the sailor in me. My berth was a 40 x 40 ft.space that housed 120 men.

I'm not sure what would constitute a long time... especially since the UEEF has a number of deep-space facilities that have recreational capacity in addition to their main roles as research installations or supply depots.
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)
User avatar
Robroy
Explorer
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:39 am
Location: Tipp City, OH.

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Robroy »

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Robroy wrote:I have the Sentinels. The rooms in that are 44 ft. Square, that is 1936 sq.ft. for 6 to 8 enlisted or 2 to 4 officers or one family. My three bedroom, two bath house is 1600. When I was making the berths for my deck plans I made four rooms for bunks and a small central area in a 11 x 15 ft.space, 165 sq.ft. About the size of a cabin on a cruise ship.

Yeah, that seems about right... the huge crew quarters for small numbers of crewmen doesn't really make sense, but since most of them will only be in their quarters to sleep, the smaller size is more economical, especially with the larger crew size numbers given in the Robotech versions of things.



Robroy wrote:That is good I suppose for being cooped up on a space ship for a long time. It is just the sailor in me. My berth was a 40 x 40 ft.space that housed 120 men.

I'm not sure what would constitute a long time... especially since the UEEF has a number of deep-space facilities that have recreational capacity in addition to their main roles as research installations or supply depots.




Actually I am going to make the quarters a little bigger probably 15x20 or 20x20 and no families on the combatants (maybe this was what the Angel class was for). In the current US Navy, you are keep busy working 12-16 hours a day so you are only in your berth to sleep. I think a Robotech ship would be more along a 3-8 hour shift to keep stress down. On a wet ship you can go out on a weather deck for fresh air and watch the waves go by. No going outside to relax in space. Also means more recreation faculties.

I don't know about larger crews in Robotech, I think they are still small. A Tristar is larger then a modern carrier and has about 1/5 the crew.

As for a long time I mean a few months (ASC) to years (UEEF) in space. In the navy the longest I went between ports was 2 months. Normally we hit a port every few weeks.
"Where ever you go, there you are"-Buckaroo Banzai

"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Way (Tao) to survival or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed"-Sun Tzu

"Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence"-Sun Tzu
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Knight
Posts: 5355
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Contact:

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

Robroy wrote:Actually I am going to make the quarters a little bigger probably 15x20 or 20x20 and no families on the combatants (maybe this was what the Angel class was for).

Supposedly, the Angel-class was built for space colonization in the general Macross style... what Colonel Wolfe would call a "vagabond space city". Not direct runs to a known location, but exploring space to find a suitable planet for colonization.


Robroy wrote:In the current US Navy, you are keep busy working 12-16 hours a day so you are only in your berth to sleep. I think a Robotech ship would be more along a 3-8 hour shift to keep stress down.

I dunno, by RTSC humanity seems to have almost gone full "Warrior Race"...


Robroy wrote:On a wet ship you can go out on a weather deck for fresh air and watch the waves go by. No going outside to relax in space. Also means more recreation faculties.

Well, not in Robotech... I guess it works better in a setting like Macross, where most military fleets are attached to large colony ships and there's a dome city where they can "go outside" for some fresh air. (Played absolutely literally for Macross 7, where civilian traffic between various habitat ships was common.) I'm not sure what they would do for a recreational facility on a ship in Robotech.


Robroy wrote:As for a long time I mean a few months (ASC) to years (UEEF) in space. In the navy the longest I went between ports was 2 months. Normally we hit a port every few weeks.

It's debatable if they actually go that long, since they apparently have a large number of deep-space installations which are large enough for significant recreational use on top of everything else.
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)
User avatar
ShadowLogan
Palladin
Posts: 7655
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Location: WI

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Seto wrote:I'm not sure what they would do for a recreational facility on a ship in Robotech.

For long haul missions they do have a few options:
-A VR system of some kind wouldn't be totally impossible. We know they had life-like holographics by 2029 for simulators (by 2020-2 if we use Sentinels OVA). Probably more suit/pod based than Star Trek's open Holodeck.
-Some type of gym/fitness room wouldn't be out of the question. (Maybe not a "court" type setup on anything but the larger ship types, and then maybe only one).
-I'm not sure if they would invest in an auditorium (Drama, concerts, etc), though they probably could re-purpose it for other official functions (a large scale briefing).
-then you have board/card games (crew could bring along as personal effects if nothing else)
-ship's library (likely digital to save space), some probably have their own personal books
User avatar
Rabid Southern Cross Fan
Champion
Posts: 2629
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 9:17 pm
Location: Monument City, UEF HQ
Contact:

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Rabid Southern Cross Fan »

ShadowLogan wrote:For long haul missions they do have a few options


Well, if we take what we see during The Masters War in Monument City as any indication, then yea they should have varied recreation facilities.
User avatar
Robroy
Explorer
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:39 am
Location: Tipp City, OH.

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Robroy »

I was thinking for recreation a wight room / gym area. Yes I was going to include a lap pool (endless pool). For basketball you can use the hanger deck after fight ops and the occasional movie(we did). I am going with the library caring E-books and the ships TV station handling music and streaming moves on demand as well as online courses for rate & rank and personal improvement (Rosetta Stone: Zentraedi) . Every berth had a TV so instead of renting a VHS tape (yes we had VHS to rent when I was in) you can just down load it. Probably a small arcade to, but most would probably have a game console in their rooms.
"Where ever you go, there you are"-Buckaroo Banzai

"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Way (Tao) to survival or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed"-Sun Tzu

"Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence"-Sun Tzu
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Knight
Posts: 5355
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Contact:

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

ShadowLogan wrote:-A VR system of some kind wouldn't be totally impossible. We know they had life-like holographics by 2029 for simulators (by 2020-2 if we use Sentinels OVA). Probably more suit/pod based than Star Trek's open Holodeck.

Problem is, the holographic tech is "soft light" in Robotech... they can't produce tangible holograms, and the tech does seem to be restricted to only trinkets like the pendant and monitor displays. There's no immersive 3D.


ShadowLogan wrote:-Some type of gym/fitness room wouldn't be out of the question. (Maybe not a "court" type setup on anything but the larger ship types, and then maybe only one).

That much is a given.


ShadowLogan wrote:-I'm not sure if they would invest in an auditorium (Drama, concerts, etc), though they probably could re-purpose it for other official functions (a large scale briefing).

Probably something like the pilot briefing room we see in the RTSC OVA, which is a tiered lecture hall-style room that can possibly be re-purposed as a movie theater.


ShadowLogan wrote:-ship's library (likely digital to save space), some probably have their own personal books

Considering most of humanity's literature went up in smoke, and the expedition itself is principally military and largely out of contact with Earth, I can't quite bring myself to agree with that one...
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)
User avatar
MikelAmroni
Hero
Posts: 1319
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:46 pm
Location: Phase World

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by MikelAmroni »

Seto Kaiba wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:-ship's library (likely digital to save space), some probably have their own personal books

Considering most of humanity's literature went up in smoke, and the expedition itself is principally military and largely out of contact with Earth, I can't quite bring myself to agree with that one...

*gets into a four or five post debate with Seto about how nonsensical this is, which Seto responds to in his normal effective, yet still unconvincing manner, we both agree to disagree, and move on*
Ok, anyway - if you want them to have access to general databases of popular books, then you should do it, be hanged who tells you otherwise. If you insist that the destruction of earth also resulted in the destruction of all culture (pretty much running QUITE opposite to the actual mood of the show), then go with that. I usually let it stay :)

I made up these module layouts for my Rifts game, but you can use them to help you with spacing, amenities and such.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 ... mSuite.jpg

Aside from the numbers on the wall, and slight variations in color and appointments, each of these modules is identical to its peers. 20 private dorm rooms, each for one soldier. In times of overcrowding, bunk beds will be installed in the rooms and two soldiers will share each room. As small as these rooms are, they are luxury compared to on-board living. Whether its a patrol ship's crew or someone stationed on the larger capital ships, space is at a premium on-ship. Most people hot bunk, never truly having a space to call their own. Because of this most naval bases use these individual dorm-style rooms to improve morale.
Each residential dorm floor is made up of four suites. Each suite is usually populated by all women or men (depending), and care is taken to separate psychics and non-psychics as well. Sometimes a boat will get all or most of a floor, but it must be requested. As each suite is entered, a quick look around reveals a narrow hallway, barely four feet wide, with four doors on one side, each leading to a dorm room, two on the other leading to a bathroom and bathroom with shower, and one door at the end of the hall leading to the last of the five dorms.
The dorm rooms are small, but efficient affairs. As the room is entered, it is immediately dominated by a full sized bed with a nightstand by the bed. The lower door to the nightstand is actually a small mini-fridge, suitable for holding drinks, and perhaps a single night's leftovers. The drawer is enough for bedside essentials and not much else. A holographic clock projects from the top of the nightstand onto the wall behind it. A small desk is at the foot of the bed.
A TV and game system are built into the wall. The game system, a FunStation 360, will play movies, music, or games that are either loaded on the machine, or loaded from mini-disks available from the PX or any commercial store. The interface uses recorded audio and simple button interfaces that are extremely intuitive and do not require any great ability to read in order to use. There is also a network interface that will allow soldiers to play multiplayer games and chat over the game's chat rooms. All interfaces are video chat, not typing. The TV can be seen from the bed, the camera can be directed easily by the soldier, and the game controller is wireless, so it is common enough to never sit at the desk, or to use it for storage. Above the desk on a shelf is a small microwave. There is also room for a coffee maker there as well.
The room's closet has a built in shelf unit on one side, with an iron mounted near the top of the closet. There is an ironing board on the opposite side of the closet, hung on the wall. The hanging rod is big enough to allow someone to hang at least six uniforms without having to squeeze them in. There is a mirror for inspecting one's uniform on the back of the main door out. The HVAC controls for the room are behind the main door as well, allowing the soldier to make their room more comfortable.
Outside the suites, in the common area is a common lounge with a table and couch. There is also a full kitchen out there, allowing folks to cook real meals for themselves if they so wish. There is a collection of small lockers that can be used as individual pantries. A water cooler, small refrigerator, multiple cooking surfaces, and three sinks make up the majority of the area, as well as a large counter area for preparing food. A pair of coffee makers dominate the end of the counter. First one up usually makes the coffee, so quality varies heavily. Anything placed in the floor's fridge is considered fair game for all. There is a small oven as well, and often an enterprising cook will make treats for the other soldiers.


http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 ... onRoom.jpg
The standard Recreation Room, this module layout allows four groups of soldiers to watch movies, shows, or games, while allowing a large area for general lounging. Each of the movie watching areas has a FunStation 360 and usually about 8 controllers attached by steel cables to the wall. The cables are long, but are there to keep the extra controllers from walking off. Breaking one results in an immediate fine, due immediately.


http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 ... hGym-1.jpg
In addition to an abbreviated lounge, this module has a full gym, including a boxing or wrestling ring, weight machines, free weights, treadmills, and exercise bikes.


http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 ... eSuite.jpg
These office clusters make up the standard administrative suit for the base. Each office suit is 14 offices, plus four free to use computers. Each office is non-descript, being an eight foot by eight foot windowless room. Two desks, with built in computer terminals and phones, and a small amount of office equipment and furniture, including filing cabinets, make up the full accouterments of the office.


http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 ... ngRoom.jpg
Four long hard plastic tables with many chairs dominate half the room, with two serving bars and a private dining area for officers filling out the rest of the room. The kitchens keep the serving bars full, but they are largely self serve. A small touch screen allows for limited special orders, mostly for dietary reasons. The private dining room for the officers is more or less sound proofed, allowing for a quieter dining experience for the officers. The area is otherwise mostly identical to the main area with smaller hard plastic tables and chairs.


http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 ... itchen.jpg
In addition to the four long mess tables, this module includes a full service kitchen, including multiple professional ovens, two freezers, and excessive pantry storage. The sinks, stoves, ovens and other large equipment ring the room, with tables and movable carts in the center. because of this, there is no such thing as a static layout. The chefs and cooks will change the layout to fit the meals they are cooking. A healthy mix of prepackaged and fresh foods is prepared here. The head cooks will sometimes buy game meat from trusted buyers and prepare it as a special treat for the soldiers and sailors, or sometimes just officers. Venison Wednesdays and Gator Sundays are popular events.


Now these may not help at all, but I use these in big block buildings for my Rifts base. No reason you couldn't take bits of it for your own use. I don't have the PX or theater here, but by including smaller tvs, you make little theaters.
"Be strong and do as you will. The swords of others will set you your limits." (Marauders of Gor, p.10)

ImageImage
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Knight
Posts: 5355
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Contact:

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

MikelAmroni wrote:*gets into a four or five post debate with Seto about how nonsensical this is, which Seto responds to in his normal effective, yet still unconvincing manner, we both agree to disagree, and move on*

Bah, it's no fun when it's done off-screen... :-P

I'm not saying a GM can't run his game however he pleases, just that I think it's fairly inconsistent with the setting for there to be a huge library of material that soldiers can access, since the majority of humanity's collective knowledge was systematically reduced to ash at the climax of the 1st RT War. It wouldn't be surprising if they had periodic access to TV shows and whatnot from home, as we know they'd at least got the TV networks back up. Almost a charmingly nostalgic throwback to when Navy crews were swapping old film reels from ship to ship in wartime. :lol:

Incidentally, what did you use to make those layouts? They're very nicely done. Is it software, or did you work these out manually? (If it's the former, I might be able to finally rework the Macross II deck plans for the official sizes of the ships, which are anywhere from 6-13x as big as Palladium thinks they are.)
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)
User avatar
Robroy
Explorer
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:39 am
Location: Tipp City, OH.

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Robroy »

Seto Kaiba wrote:I'm not saying a GM can't run his game however he pleases, just that I think it's fairly inconsistent with the setting for there to be a huge library of material that soldiers can access, since the majority of humanity's collective knowledge was systematically reduced to ash at the climax of the 1st RT War. It wouldn't be surprising if they had periodic access to TV shows and whatnot from home, as we know they'd at least got the TV networks back up. Almost a charmingly nostalgic throwback to when Navy crews were swapping old film reels from ship to ship in wartime. :lol:


So 70% of the Earth's surface devastated means 100% of all libraries, book stores and e-books are gone?

I can see ships, towns, and people trading copies of stuff they don't have. Plus you will have people getting together and recreating stuff from Shakespeare, Doyle, Poe, and others. Then you will have others that will nit pick it. :-D
"Where ever you go, there you are"-Buckaroo Banzai

"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Way (Tao) to survival or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed"-Sun Tzu

"Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence"-Sun Tzu
User avatar
Robroy
Explorer
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:39 am
Location: Tipp City, OH.

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Robroy »

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Robroy wrote:As for a long time I mean a few months (ASC) to years (UEEF) in space. In the navy the longest I went between ports was 2 months. Normally we hit a port every few weeks.

It's debatable if they actually go that long, since they apparently have a large number of deep-space installations which are large enough for significant recreational use on top of everything else.


Not at first. In 2022 the UEEF only had the factory sat. I don't think they would fold ships all the way back to earth just for R&R.
"Where ever you go, there you are"-Buckaroo Banzai

"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Way (Tao) to survival or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed"-Sun Tzu

"Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence"-Sun Tzu
User avatar
ShadowLogan
Palladin
Posts: 7655
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Location: WI

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Seto wrote:Problem is, the holographic tech is "soft light" in Robotech... they can't produce tangible holograms, and the tech does seem to be restricted to only trinkets like the pendant and monitor displays. There's no immersive 3D.

Have you seen the VHT simulator Dana uses in the epsiode "Deja Vu" (easily on par with Baker's Alpha Simulator in the Sentinels OVA for image quality, and unlike the Alpha the VHT one is a smaller Pod instead of full article mock-up). Clearly the tech isn't limited to pendant and monitor displays, but is advanced enough to do real time simulation in an interactive and immersive 3D environment (provided the user provided a feed back system).

It may be "soft light", so nothing like Star Trek's Holodeck/suite, but it can be used to provide recreation in a variety of forms. Put the user in a suit to provide feedback sensations (to the degree allowed) in those holographic environments instead of a simulator cockpit (not saying a cockpit pod couldn't be used either) and you would be good to go.

Seto wrote:Considering most of humanity's literature went up in smoke, and the expedition itself is principally military and largely out of contact with Earth, I can't quite bring myself to agree with that one...

How extensive was the libraries on Macross Island? What about the ones in NYC? What about new books to be written after the R.o.D.

They may have lost a lot of physical editions, but there is a chance they could have had an extensive digital copy collection on the SDF-1 (or other spaceships) to save space and mass. That says nothing of an effort to restore damaged books that might be recovered. So the overall collection may not be as extensive as pre-R.o.D, but there would still be a collection and it would grow.
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Knight
Posts: 5355
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Contact:

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

Gryphon wrote:Lastly, Macross seemed to not have the appropriate attitude for mixed sex showers and such.

On the few occasions Macross has shown us living quarters in detail, the majority of the troops had community shower rooms. (Macross the First actually shows us more of the crew quarters on the Macross, though partly for the sake of a joke at Hikaru's expense.)


Gryphon wrote:Southern Cross reinforced that sot of attitude, what with Dana having her own shower.

Southern Cross really shouldn't even be considered, since that was surface-side living and not a ship. It's natural for the rooms to be somewhat more spacious when you don't have the constraints of living inside a starship's hull.





Robroy wrote:So 70% of the Earth's surface devastated means 100% of all libraries, book stores and e-books are gone?

I could go two ways on this to prove myself right... I could state that the show says the surface destruction was total, or if I'm in the mood to be a smart-arse I could point out that only 29.2% of Earth's surface is land, so 70% destruction would be the entire landmass of Earth twice over. :lol:


Robroy wrote:Not at first. In 2022 the UEEF only had the factory sat. I don't think they would fold ships all the way back to earth just for R&R.

Per the RTSC material, humanity had MULTIPLE factory satellites fairly early on, including Liberty station.
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)
User avatar
Robroy
Explorer
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:39 am
Location: Tipp City, OH.

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Robroy »

I was thinking of keeping the sexes separate as far as berths and bathrooms go. I am also having the enlisted use a communal bathroom while officers would get a small one in their quarters. RHIP.
"Where ever you go, there you are"-Buckaroo Banzai

"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Way (Tao) to survival or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed"-Sun Tzu

"Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence"-Sun Tzu
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Knight
Posts: 5355
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Contact:

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

Gryphon wrote:I'm not asking if the ships should be unisex facilities, I am asking if the military in general, and probably even a significant portion of the civilians affected by their presence should be unisex.

Generally speaking, human culture doesn't seem to have gone full Starship Troopers (yet) in Robotech, so unisex facilities are probably right out.

Gryphon wrote:I am also only referring to The Macross Saga, or Robotech, not Macross and its follow ups form Japan. This is because anything else that spawned after Macross was in its own universe, and was affected differently by cultural growth than what we got in the three, and now four arcs of Robotech (however limited The Shadow Chronicles happens to be).

'cept Macross the First is a retelling of the original series, the one used in Robotech, and frankly the visuals of Robotech are still Japanese in nature and reflect the largely unchanged attitude toward gender roles that continues into the modern day. The "take" of the original and true creators is considered a valid source of info for [i]Robotech[i], per the creative director's stance on such things.

Robroy's position there is more or less in line with what's in the show and aforementioned manga.
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)
User avatar
glitterboy2098
Rifts® Trivia Master
Posts: 13530
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:37 pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Gryphon wrote:I'm not asking if the ships should be unisex facilities, I am asking if the military in general, and probably even a significant portion of the civilians affected by their presence should be unisex.

Generally speaking, human culture doesn't seem to have gone full Starship Troopers (yet) in Robotech, so unisex facilities are probably right out.

odds are that the closest you'd get is like on modern ships and subs, where you have one set of facilities, with a rotation set up so the genders aren't using them at the same time. and honestly, given the realtively low crew #'s of most robotech spaceships compared to current wetnavy ships, i could see fully segregated facilities on the biggest ships. though smaller ones like the Oberth or Garfish you could possibly claim have space issues requiring shared but rotated facilities..
Author of Rifts: Deep Frontier (Rifter 70)
Author of Rifts:Scandinavia (current project)
Image
* All fantasy should have a solid base in reality.
* Good sense about trivialities is better than nonsense about things that matter.

-Max Beerbohm
Visit my Website
User avatar
Jerell
Hero
Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:23 am
Location: Westland Michigan

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Jerell »

Gryphon wrote:BTW, I ask this question not because I am a perv (I am or course, but I hide it really, really well!), but rather because it would seem like another, really good way to discern a "spacenoid", to steal a term, from a terran born, such as the newest source book mentions.


That's a good point. It's reasonable to think spacenoids should be culturally different in some respects than earth born, especially involving living quarters.

Back in 2003, It was a eye opener to me to see how well the Canadian Forces were integrated compared to the US Army. They had no problems letting males, females and gay soldiers share the same 8 man tents, sleeping stacked right next to each other in the field. They did it, with no problems and no big deal. In the US Army culture, especially of 2003, those were all big no-goes. So there can be acceptable cultural differences even between different neighboring countries of similar culture. So I'd think the Spacenoids compared to 'those weighed down by gravity' would be somehow different in that respect as well.
Image
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Knight
Posts: 5355
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Contact:

Re: Deck plans, scale, and headache

Unread post by Seto Kaiba »

Gryphon wrote:I can accept that point, but only to a point Seto. Yes, even the newly redone Macros the First would be a valid source, but we (we as in I, to clarify) aren't talking about ~2010 The Robotech Saga, but are instead referring to the ~2030 or even ~2045 period, which is at least a generation away, more or less, and for the later, two, presuming the continued early birthing efforts that had to be in play.

But... with Tommy's (apparent) profound affection/preference for the original Macross dictating creative policy, there isn't much chance that Robotech would deviate from the model laid down in Macross. :wink:

(Yes, I did just basically answer with "Know your foe!".)


Gryphon wrote:And you reference to the Starship Troopers aspect is sharply on point too. You might be talking about the book, which I haven't read in over a decade, so its a bit fuzzy, but I do recall the 1st and 3rd movies clearly, and I readily admit that the unisex approach they had taken was...jarring, at the very least.

If it's any consolation, I was in fact talking about the 1st movie in terms of the unisex bathing accommodations, but I was also referencing the book in the context of the rampant anti-alien/ultranationalistic attitude that abounds there. Humans from the 2044 period in RTSC seem to be headed that way, especially Marcus. They've gone from "aliens are A-OK when they're not trying to blow us up" to "aliens suck" to an almost WH40K-esque "Can't trust the ****ing xenos!" attitude by Prelude.





Jerell wrote:That's a good point. It's reasonable to think spacenoids should be culturally different in some respects than earth born, especially involving living quarters.

Therein lies the weird part, the space-born humans in Robotech seem to have no cultural differences from humans on Earth apart from the fact that their society is organized around almost purely military lines. (They've practically become a Zentradi legion in all but gene.)


Jerell wrote:Back in 2003, It was a eye opener to me to see how well the Canadian Forces were integrated compared to the US Army. They had no problems letting males, females and gay soldiers share the same 8 man tents, sleeping stacked right next to each other in the field. They did it, with no problems and no big deal. In the US Army culture, especially of 2003, those were all big no-goes.

From what little we're shown in the Robotech version, they're operating on a very Japanese level of modesty when it comes to co-ed anything. Separate bunkrooms, separate bathing facilities, etc. While some of their military units are now mixed, living accommodations appear to remain separate. Even in later sagas, the crew quarters seem to be sized on the generous side even for NCOs the way they were in Macross.

(Some folks find it weird, but if you go back to the original Macross series, you find that the UN Forces were actually modeled much more closely on the American forces than they were on the Japanese defense forces. Everything from the rank system, which included ranks that aren't used in the JSDF, to items of organization and designation for ships, fighter squadrons, the fighters themselves, and even small arms are modeled on the US armed services. It even goes as far as having a substantial body of evidence to suggest that, though the show itself is in Japanese, that everyone in it is really speaking English.)
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)
Locked

Return to “Robotech® - The Shadow Chronicles® - Macross II®”