Suddently parring a fire dragon barehanded doesn't make sense to me...
Awesome!!
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yeah, if you're sticking with the rules as written, you kinda have to not think about this
alternately, you could interpret parry more creatively, and have it include things like faking a dodge that causes the enemy to smash the wrong place, or using terrain to make it difficult for them to hit you, and stuff like that.
Shark_Force wrote:yeah, if you're sticking with the rules as written, you kinda have to not think about this
alternately, you could interpret parry more creatively, and have it include things like faking a dodge that causes the enemy to smash the wrong place, or using terrain to make it difficult for them to hit you, and stuff like that.
Agreed.
Or simply don't let parring when it doesn't make sense. That's why dodge is for...
Last edited by mobuttu on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You should include the behemoth explorer... actually screw it... I wonder if I could pay Madman Mike or someone to put one together with new original art or something... *scratches his chin*
Seriously, this is great.
Alright, on that note... I am off to bed. *salutes*
"I flew back to the states just to vote for Trump." Mumpsimus can be defined as someone who obstinately clings to an error, bad habit or prejudice, even after the foible has been exposed. I will not answer posts/questions/accusations by people on my foes list. The Ugly Truth - Carl Gleba on the Cabal of 24. Rifts® Online: Megaversal Highway.
Assuming that size comparison chart is accurate, I don't think it is entirely implausible for a human to parry an attack from a Dragon. The Dragon is about 3x the size of a human (ignoring the wings) and would be comparable to a 1'4" blade parrying a 4' blade which doesn't sound too unrealistic to me. Remember a parry doesn't require stopping something in motion, it only requires altering the trajectory of that motion. That task requires far less force.
I'd suggest to the Human trying to remain in the Dragon's blind spots, like the back of the neck...
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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"
Suddently parring a fire dragon barehanded doesn't make sense to me...
Awesome!!
It would be nice to have all the PAs & Bots done up. Maybe by region.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Suddently parring a fire dragon barehanded doesn't make sense to me...
Awesome!!
It would be nice to have all the PAs & Bots done up. Maybe by region.
Agreed. Somebody's project for the new year.
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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"
Giant2005 wrote:Assuming that size comparison chart is accurate, I don't think it is entirely implausible for a human to parry an attack from a Dragon. The Dragon is about 3x the size of a human (ignoring the wings) and would be comparable to a 1'4" blade parrying a 4' blade which doesn't sound too unrealistic to me. Remember a parry doesn't require stopping something in motion, it only requires altering the trajectory of that motion. That task requires far less force.
ummmm.... i wouldn't say that the dragon is 3x the size of the human at all.
i might say that the dragon is ~3x the size in each dimension, making it actually ~27x the size of the human by volume (and most likely mass). certainly, i'd say that dragon's torso is pretty close to 3x the length of the human's height. i suspect it's more than 3x the size in the other two dimensions, mind you.
Well I guess a GM could make up a house rule on 'size classes' and then make one for weapon size.....would probably have to have an area rule so that you can figure if you can dodge a stop (foots to big).....yah, you COULD make up house rules to cover it if you want the added complexity.....or you can just say 'screw it' I'm going with the rules as written and the rule of cool.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Best thing I've seen on the forums in quite some time.
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.
Ninjabunny wrote:You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.
Marrowlight wrote: The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you.
Would be great to see the Ulti-max (from Sourcebook 1) and the Devestator on there.
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.
Ninjabunny wrote:You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.
Marrowlight wrote: The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you.
Suddently parring a fire dragon barehanded doesn't make sense to me...
Well in some cases when you parry you are exchanging one damage location for another (ex. missiles), so instead of avoiding damage to the main body (torso/head) you parry it to a shield/weapon or limb I would say.
Again, excellent work. You astonish, good sir, you astonish.
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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"
The Galactus Kid wrote:Would be great to see the Ulti-max (from Sourcebook 1) and the Devestator on there.
Holy cow, look at how big the Black Knight actually is!
"I flew back to the states just to vote for Trump." Mumpsimus can be defined as someone who obstinately clings to an error, bad habit or prejudice, even after the foible has been exposed. I will not answer posts/questions/accusations by people on my foes list. The Ugly Truth - Carl Gleba on the Cabal of 24. Rifts® Online: Megaversal Highway.
The Galactus Kid wrote:Would be great to see the Ulti-max (from Sourcebook 1) and the Devestator on there.
Holy cow, look at how big the Black Knight actually is!
Black knight? Look at how big the DRAGONWING really is. I've never even thought about it.
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.
Ninjabunny wrote:You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.
Marrowlight wrote: The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you.
It would be amazing if we could actually compile a list of every single robot and PA arranged by height and then (in a reduced-quality capacity, of course) create a chart like this showing the sizes.
Another asset to such a chart, I think, would be to list which book (and page number) has the stats for these robots.
I also think we should include the massive bots from the Phase World sourcebooks.
Also if there are any races/RCCs or NPCs with fixed heights (as opposed to a range) we could include those as well.
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Wow! I like it...please do a full Triax, Free Quebec, CS chart (one for each Army including PA and Robots, and then a combined one). This is The Best 2012 thread by far (for me).
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eliakon wrote:Well I guess a GM could make up a house rule on 'size classes' and then make one for weapon size.....would probably have to have an area rule so that you can figure if you can dodge a stop (foots to big).....yah, you COULD make up house rules to cover it if you want the added complexity.....or you can just say 'screw it' I'm going with the rules as written and the rule of cool.
This is actually one of the few things that D20 does well...size categories and mods to hit. You can pull it right out of the SRD and some weak google-fu will pull it right up. Since it is based on a 20-sided die like PB, no rules lawyering required.
-STS
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Daeglan wrote:I would love to see this done with most things in the game.
Star Wars did something like this in one of their books. Only difference was that there was no scale like mobuttu has on the left, and the ships were in sillouette. It had most of the ships on the first two pages, and only a few of them went beyond that.
Daeglan wrote:I would love to see this done with most things in the game.
Star Wars did something like this in one of their books. Only difference was that there was no scale like mobuttu has on the left, and the ships were in sillouette. It had most of the ships on the first two pages, and only a few of them went beyond that.
That depended on the Books, the old West End Games books had quite a few nice to scale images in their books and that certainly made a big difference, it placed things in perspective of just how 'big', 'BIG' really was.
People don't really seem to get the full sense of scale until it is right in their face and it would be nice to see in the books with lots of hardware a nice scale image of them. I've done a lot of scaling with the bot's and vehicles in the books where it could be done, on some things the art just doesn't agree at all with stat size as presented to do decent scaling -prime example Air Castle.
Shark_Force wrote:yeah, if you're sticking with the rules as written, you kinda have to not think about this
alternately, you could interpret parry more creatively, and have it include things like faking a dodge that causes the enemy to smash the wrong place, or using terrain to make it difficult for them to hit you, and stuff like that.
Agreed.
Or simply don't let parring when it doesn't make sense. That's why dodge is for...
Yea it does seam a littl odd parry is not always blocking, it can be simply moving the blow to the side but it does seam a little imposible to parry something that is bigger than your whole boady but hey that is what dodge is for.
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Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......
I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
Giant2005 wrote:Assuming that size comparison chart is accurate, I don't think it is entirely implausible for a human to parry an attack from a Dragon. The Dragon is about 3x the size of a human (ignoring the wings) and would be comparable to a 1'4" blade parrying a 4' blade which doesn't sound too unrealistic to me. Remember a parry doesn't require stopping something in motion, it only requires altering the trajectory of that motion. That task requires far less force.
The key word here is "force" that depend on mass, acceleration and in Rifts earth superhuman/natural nature. Unless you've some form of augmented strength(Augmented, Robotic, Supernatural) and/or you're very dense and heavy, parrying a dragon would just end being thrown away as a little peebles "parrying" your feet.
On side note this scale will make people reconsider the usefulness of Climbing skill
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These are great, just wanted to add to that sentiment.
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Shark_Force wrote:yeah, if you're sticking with the rules as written, you kinda have to not think about this
alternately, you could interpret parry more creatively, and have it include things like faking a dodge that causes the enemy to smash the wrong place, or using terrain to make it difficult for them to hit you, and stuff like that.
Agreed.
Or simply don't let parring when it doesn't make sense. That's why dodge is for...
Yea it does seam a littl odd parry is not always blocking, it can be simply moving the blow to the side but it does seam a little imposible to parry something that is bigger than your whole boady but hey that is what dodge is for.
Depending on the kind of thing we're talking about, it's actually not that hard at all. If something that big is exerting all of its force down, reaching up with your sword and apply even just a few pounds of pressure laterally will divert the entire blow off course, possibly by a few feet. The more mass and force going in one direction, the farther it will then travel off course when affected by lateral pressure.
I'm (or i was, until a recent injury) a re-enactor; i've parried full-force blows from a greatsword/greatclub with nothing more than a 12" dagger. It isn't as hard as you're making it out to be - and for referrence, the sword in question is as long as i am tall.
as was pointed out, parry doesn't always (or even usually) mean block.
Im loving the Foes list; it's the only thing keeping me from tearing out my eyes from the dumb.
This scale chart was initially conceived just to remind us that size should be taken into account while playing. What I like from Rifts is its "flexible ruling" (nothing is carved into stone) and I thought size should be a narrative aspect important enough to consider it. Just that. What rules does you apply while playing are up to you, AFAIK ain't no one on the books.
Besides, I'll think about putting together a massive PA/Robot size comparison chart with several builders and books references. I should be visually comprehensible, and it all depend on the available art on the books, so it'll take a while (or maybe it'll be never done by me). Please, feel free to post your suggestions on the issue (any help or comments will be very appreciated).
It was awesome seeing the scales.. and does make you wonder if they need scaling rules.. re ease of doing called strikes for small creatures vs large, and increased damage of large creatures vs small - if you factored in the MD based on heavy objects being flung around, something that weighs tons would get the benefit of extra MD when it hits things.
And if... somone whipped out a mini gun. We run and hide. lol.
Now.. some guys won't... and you can say nice things at their funeral. "He was a brave soul.... if stupid.. he didn't take cover when the guy whipped out the mini gun on us that day.. but his blood-fountaining corpse did give us a chance to sneak around and clonk the machine gunner on the head with a rock. Rest in Pieces.... Swiss Cheese Man.....
It would be an interesting house rule that could work for some games. It realisticly should be harder to say....miss a 50' robot that your in melee with but I can also see people figuring that its one more layer of complexity that they dont need.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Well, it's probably best just to wing it.. and have something that shows the scale as a reminder, and just throw in descriptions that make it clear how dangerous it is to stand toe to toe with something that's like a mobile building, able to crush you or send you flying with a nudge. And generally these bonuses to hit would just apply to ranged weapons - your target being bigger than you means you have to move into position to reach certain parts of them - hard to hit them in the eyeball with a sword if you're only up to their calves.. Unless you can fly..
Still, puts me in mind of how annoying and dangerous those lasae demons or Gremlins in that movie (irl) are to people, especially when they're wielding weapons or modern appliances and jumping out from small places to strike then retreat..
And if... somone whipped out a mini gun. We run and hide. lol.
Now.. some guys won't... and you can say nice things at their funeral. "He was a brave soul.... if stupid.. he didn't take cover when the guy whipped out the mini gun on us that day.. but his blood-fountaining corpse did give us a chance to sneak around and clonk the machine gunner on the head with a rock. Rest in Pieces.... Swiss Cheese Man.....
And if... somone whipped out a mini gun. We run and hide. lol.
Now.. some guys won't... and you can say nice things at their funeral. "He was a brave soul.... if stupid.. he didn't take cover when the guy whipped out the mini gun on us that day.. but his blood-fountaining corpse did give us a chance to sneak around and clonk the machine gunner on the head with a rock. Rest in Pieces.... Swiss Cheese Man.....
Eclipse wrote: Still, puts me in mind of how annoying and dangerous those lasae demons or Gremlins in that movie (irl) are to people, especially when they're wielding weapons or modern appliances and jumping out from small places to strike then retreat..
I recall that the rifts novels *shudder* had a lasae demon that used 'sense supernatural evil' to its own benefit, getting jumpy psychics and mystics to shoot one another as it ran in between them.
I'd get up in the morning and watch the sun rise over the yardarm of my sky-ship as the sails billowed in the breeze and the land slid by 300-odd metres below. I'd grasp the mahogany ship's wheel, turn her nose a few points back onto the line, and feel pity for all those poor bastards below who have to work for a living. - My idea of the good life in Rifts.
mobuttu wrote:Thanks all for your kind words. Glad you like it!
This scale chart was initially conceived just to remind us that size should be taken into account while playing. What I like from Rifts is its "flexible ruling" (nothing is carved into stone) and I thought size should be a narrative aspect important enough to consider it. Just that. What rules does you apply while playing are up to you, AFAIK ain't no one on the books.
Besides, I'll think about putting together a massive PA/Robot size comparison chart with several builders and books references. I should be visually comprehensible, and it all depend on the available art on the books, so it'll take a while (or maybe it'll be never done by me). Please, feel free to post your suggestions on the issue (any help or comments will be very appreciated).
Begin small: first the CS, second Free Quebec and third th NGR. After that mix them in one full chart. Continue with the other powers one by one...by all means, this could turn into something so awesome for a RIFTER article! or several...
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