Question on the Flower of Life and the Invid.

[Colt47]

Has anyone in the Robotech Universe considered trying to crop dust the flowers with invid insecticide? It sounds kind of stupid, but in reality it would probably be the most lethal weapon against them possible as they depend completely on the flower. Not to mention they are so alien to humans that whatever is poisonous to them is likely not poisonous to humans. Also it's highly likely the Regis would be the first one to die from such an attack since she uses the protoculture to create invid and their mecha.

I mean, it's not like we go around trying to kill off ant colonies with our boots.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Has anyone in the Robotech Universe considered trying to crop dust the flowers with invid insecticide? It sounds kind of stupid, but in reality it would probably be the most lethal weapon against them possible as they depend completely on the flower. Not to mention they are so alien to humans that whatever is poisonous to them is likely not poisonous to humans. Also it's highly likely the Regis would be the first one to die from such an attack since she uses the protoculture to create invid and their mecha.

I mean, it's not like we go around trying to kill off ant colonies with our boots.

I think this was done in the old novels/old canon... the Master Defoliated the Invid home world, which sounds alot like they gave the Zents some huge cans of round-up and send them to work...

[Colt47]

Has anyone in the Robotech Universe considered trying to crop dust the flowers with invid insecticide? It sounds kind of stupid, but in reality it would probably be the most lethal weapon against them possible as they depend completely on the flower. Not to mention they are so alien to humans that whatever is poisonous to them is likely not poisonous to humans. Also it's highly likely the Regis would be the first one to die from such an attack since she uses the protoculture to create invid and their mecha.

I mean, it's not like we go around trying to kill off ant colonies with our boots.

I think this was done in the old novels/old canon... the Master Defoliated the Invid home world, which sounds alot like they gave the Zents some huge cans of round-up and send them to work...

That sounds like they were killing the plant life. This would actually kill the invid and leave the plant life completely intact, including the flowers. What basically would happen is the invid would harvest the dusted flowers and take whatever material they need back to their hive, which would then contaminate the hives protoculture supply. I don't think I need to elaborate from there what is going to happen to the hive when they attempt to use the protoculture.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Has anyone in the Robotech Universe considered trying to crop dust the flowers with invid insecticide? It sounds kind of stupid, but in reality it would probably be the most lethal weapon against them possible as they depend completely on the flower. Not to mention they are so alien to humans that whatever is poisonous to them is likely not poisonous to humans. Also it's highly likely the Regis would be the first one to die from such an attack since she uses the protoculture to create invid and their mecha.

I mean, it's not like we go around trying to kill off ant colonies with our boots.

I think this was done in the old novels/old canon... the Master Defoliated the Invid home world, which sounds alot like they gave the Zents some huge cans of round-up and send them to work...

That sounds like they were killing the plant life. This would actually kill the invid and leave the plant life completely intact, including the flowers. What basically would happen is the invid would harvest the dusted flowers and take whatever material they need back to their hive, which would then contaminate the hives protoculture supply. I don't think I need to elaborate from there what is going to happen to the hive when they attempt to use the protoculture.

I miss read, but I think the invid might be immune to such an approach... with how they have a variable genome...

[Colt47]

Has anyone in the Robotech Universe considered trying to crop dust the flowers with invid insecticide? It sounds kind of stupid, but in reality it would probably be the most lethal weapon against them possible as they depend completely on the flower. Not to mention they are so alien to humans that whatever is poisonous to them is likely not poisonous to humans. Also it's highly likely the Regis would be the first one to die from such an attack since she uses the protoculture to create invid and their mecha.

I mean, it's not like we go around trying to kill off ant colonies with our boots.

I think this was done in the old novels/old canon... the Master Defoliated the Invid home world, which sounds alot like they gave the Zents some huge cans of round-up and send them to work...

That sounds like they were killing the plant life. This would actually kill the invid and leave the plant life completely intact, including the flowers. What basically would happen is the invid would harvest the dusted flowers and take whatever material they need back to their hive, which would then contaminate the hives protoculture supply. I don't think I need to elaborate from there what is going to happen to the hive when they attempt to use the protoculture.

I miss read, but I think the invid might be immune to such an approach... with how they have a variable genome...

Thought about that and realized that even if they did, it wouldn't save them. The reason is that they all are directly related to each other genetically. It's like a new queen ant vs a worker ant: they both are still ants and effected by the same toxins/poisons. In order to prevent a toxin/poison from effecting the invid hive, the Regis would have to be able to evolve an invid into something other than an invid, which she can not do.

[devillin]

Thought about that and realized that even if they did, it wouldn't save them. The reason is that they all are directly related to each other genetically. It's like a new queen ant vs a worker ant: they both are still ants and effected by the same toxins/poisons. In order to prevent a toxin/poison from effecting the invid hive, the Regis would have to be able to evolve an invid into something other than an invid, which she can not do.

Um, Corg, Sera, Ariel ? They may have Invid blood, but they aren't Invid any more. Truth be told, pretty much any Invid that's not a scout or trooper couldn't be considered as a purebred Invid either.

[glitterboy2098]

it also seems unlikely that any invid inside one of their mecha would be effected by a chemical attack. their mecha might be biotech based, but if they can withstand the range of enviroments that we see them do in the show (including the vacuum of space), it seems likely that they'd also have been engineered to protect their pilot from outside toxins.

honestly, i think you'd have better luck developing a Herbicide able to kill flower of life.. but no one wants to risk their fuel supply for starships that way.

[Colt47]

Question got answered. No one's tried it in canon, so everyone is making guesses. It's definitely plausible, especially if the delivery method is using contaminated PC.

[ShadowLogan]

Has anyone in the Robotech Universe considered trying to crop dust the flowers with invid insecticide? It sounds kind of stupid, but in reality it would probably be the most lethal weapon against them possible as they depend completely on the flower. Not to mention they are so alien to humans that whatever is poisonous to them is likely not poisonous to humans. Also it's highly likely the Regis would be the first one to die from such an attack since she uses the protoculture to create invid and their mecha.

I mean, it's not like we go around trying to kill off ant colonies with our boots.

I think this was done in the old novels/old canon... the Master Defoliated the Invid home world, which sounds alot like they gave the Zents some huge cans of round-up and send them to work...

That sounds like they were killing the plant life. This would actually kill the invid and leave the plant life completely intact, including the flowers. What basically would happen is the invid would harvest the dusted flowers and take whatever material they need back to their hive, which would then contaminate the hives protoculture supply. I don't think I need to elaborate from there what is going to happen to the hive when they attempt to use the protoculture.

I miss read, but I think the invid might be immune to such an approach... with how they have a variable genome...

Thought about that and realized that even if they did, it wouldn't save them. The reason is that they all are directly related to each other genetically. It's like a new queen ant vs a worker ant: they both are still ants and effected by the same toxins/poisons. In order to prevent a toxin/poison from effecting the invid hive, the Regis would have to be able to evolve an invid into something other than an invid, which she can not do.

Wolfe is right, the Invid's ability to adapt would put the long term viability of this plan into question when you consider the Invid are evolving biologically faster than a creatures on Earth who develop immunity to toxins (drug resistant bacteria for example and there are others http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/libra ... 01_02.html).

Anyone who tries this will have to produce enough to target every Invid hive at once, other wise the Invid will adapt. Nature shows that such things happen, and the Invid work far faster in adaption than any creature on earth (per Invasion comic series, the Invid have been going from a protoplasmic state to a humanoid one in the span of 8years and another 4years after that we get human looking ones externally, that is how fast their biology can adapt).

[Colt47]

Actually it's more likely that humans and Invid are vulnerable to the same things. This makes sense canonically since the Masters (who are basically humans) made an active decision to defoliate rather than directly poison the invid on their homeworld. The way this toxin would work having any of it contaminate the limited PC supply on the masters ships would be catastrophic (they'd all die from just trying to space fold, let alone use life extension or cloning technology). This is also indirectly backed up indirectly by the fact the flower can grow on Earth without a hitch.

[Nightmask]

Actually it's more likely that humans and Invid are vulnerable to the same things. This makes sense canonically since the Masters (who are basically humans) made an active decision to defoliate rather than directly poison the invid on their homeworld. The way this toxin would work having any of it contaminate the limited PC supply on the masters ships would be catastrophic (they'd all die from just trying to space fold, let alone use life extension or cloning technology). This is also indirectly backed up indirectly by the fact the flower can grow on Earth without a hitch.

I think they went for active destruction of the Flower more to ensure no one else could make use of it (really stupid thinking, although I can't be sure, I think they destroyed the Flower before finding out they couldn't grow it anywhere else) than because they thought poisoning the Invid would be harder.

[ShadowLogan]

Actually it's more likely that humans and Invid are vulnerable to the same things. This makes sense canonically since the Masters (who are basically humans) made an active decision to defoliate rather than directly poison the invid on their homeworld. The way this toxin would work having any of it contaminate the limited PC supply on the masters ships would be catastrophic (they'd all die from just trying to space fold, let alone use life extension or cloning technology). This is also indirectly backed up indirectly by the fact the flower can grow on Earth without a hitch.

Defoliation may have been seen as simpler to execute than creating a poison for the Invid, producing it, and then distributing it.

Protoculture that has been contaminated w/FoL lose potency and at a certain point will consume more energy than it creates (that is from the show). A toxin contaminating the PC supply potentially runs the risk of creating a similar situation where the PC is found to be bad, at which point they stop using it.

The FoL that grows on Earth is a mutant variety not the original (that is from the show)

[drewkitty ~..~]

According to everything before the rec'con (taken as a whole), PC is made up of cells from the IFOL, from plants that have not been pollenated, put were put into stasis by the PC Production Matrix created by Zor.
So PC that is 'contaminated' with IFOC spores is that PC that is coming out of stasis. And as more PC turns into IFOL spores, the faster the whole batch of PC turns back into IFOL.

According to everything before the rec'con (taken as a whole), the type of IFOL that grew on earth is the non-mutated variety. Unlike the mutated varieties that Zor planted on the Fantoma 'Local Group'.

[glitterboy2098]

according to the show however, protoculture is made from the spores of flower of life*, and all the flowers on earth are mutant varieties.
but apparently, while the mutant flowers of life are able to feed off protoculture fuel, their spores can still be used with the protoculture factory to make more protoculture fuel.




*and visually is a clear fluid..

[FreelancerMar]

I would have to disagree with the earth strain being a mutant strain of the IFol. It must be rememberd that the strain within the PC-matrix hidden abord the SDF-01 was the origional, uncontaminated, opterian strain untouched by other enviornmental elements. The masters would have also made sure that they had polinators abord their own vessels just in case a viable strain could be found.

However Earth has it's own set of polinator 'species' for most species of flowers and may not need opterian polinators to keep the flowers going.

Remember that the Ifol spread across the entire planet like a weed in less than a years time. Now it is unlikely that the masters had enough opertian polinators with them to keep an entire planets worth of the IFOL polinated and viable.

Just something to think about.

[glitterboy2098]

Zors pecifically says the FoL they find in the ruins of the SDF-1 is mutant though.

and the 'opterian pollinators' are non-canon now.

given that the FoL reproduces by spores (by the show's dialog and narrator), it is unlikely that pollination is involved at all.

[Nightmask]

Zors pecifically says the FoL they find in the ruins of the SDF-1 is mutant though.

and the 'opterian pollinators' are non-canon now.

given that the FoL reproduces by spores (by the show's dialog and narrator), it is unlikely that pollination is involved at all.

Doesn't that make the flower actually a fungus then, like mushrooms and toadstools?

[glitterboy2098]

Zors pecifically says the FoL they find in the ruins of the SDF-1 is mutant though.

and the 'opterian pollinators' are non-canon now.

given that the FoL reproduces by spores (by the show's dialog and narrator), it is unlikely that pollination is involved at all.

Doesn't that make the flower actually a fungus then, like mushrooms and toadstools?

from the visuals we see in the show, i'd say it has more in common with earth's ferns.
the term 'flower' probably comes from the fact that the plant's leaf like structures cluster in groupings that resemble earth's flowers.

biologically though, they'd have to be leaves, since the rest of the plant is just the vascular stalks, and like most spore reproducing plants, the opening of the leaves coincides with the release of the spores.

[Nightmask]

Zors pecifically says the FoL they find in the ruins of the SDF-1 is mutant though.

and the 'opterian pollinators' are non-canon now.

given that the FoL reproduces by spores (by the show's dialog and narrator), it is unlikely that pollination is involved at all.

Doesn't that make the flower actually a fungus then, like mushrooms and toadstools?

from the visuals we see in the show, i'd say it has more in common with earth's ferns.

Hmmm, I hadn't realized ferns also reproduce by spores. Fascinating. No wonder they spread across the Earth so rapidly, after that final failed attempt to destroy them it just spread them across the upper atmosphere as the spores would be much better at spreading under such conditions than conventional plants.

[glitterboy2098]

yes and no. spores, at least for earth plants.*, are actually a less effective means of reproduction than seeds.
spores will only grow when they land in a spot well suited to growth. they are just the plant embyro, effectively. they have to land in a place with the right amount of nutrients and the right conditions for growth.
seeds carry a supply of food with them (that's what makes nuts and such actually nutritious for us), so they are not as reliant on the presence of the right supply of nutrients where they land.

but plants that reproduce via spores produce way more spores. a fern will release thousands oreven hundreds of thousands of spores for every seed a seed bearing plant puts out. so it's not as important for each spore to find the right spot, like it is with seeds.


* the FoL, being an alien plant, might well find earth's conditions ideal.. it's hard to say with alien stuff unless the narrator or characters talk about it.

[Sgt Anjay]

"We must protect the seeds or we will all fade away"

Musica, and the cultural font she represents, seems to be of the opinion there are seeds, and they are what you want.

[Colonel Wolfe]

"We must protect the seeds or we will all fade away"

Musica, and the cultural font she represents, seems to be of the opinion there are seeds, and they are what you want.

"beware the spores dana" - Aurora/Maya?

[Sgt Anjay]

Which points to both seeds and spores existing, not one or the other.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Which points to both seeds and spores existing, not one or the other.

in truth thou, I trust Musica over Dana's drugged out hallucinations....

[glitterboy2098]

how about the narrator saying the spores will spread the flower of life?
or zor freaking out about the spores, and how them escaping will spread FOl and attract invid?

somehow i'd trust the narrator and the guy who discovered the FOL over a singer singing lyrics. if our world is anything to go on, song lyrics writers are more than willing to substitute words when they can't make make the real terms sound good in verse.

[Sgt Anjay]

Musica's song clearly conveys deep socio-cultural impact...its enough to trigger the very Zor you're talking about's reemerging memories. That hardly seems an appropriate place to toss in faulty lyrics. Moreover, as I recall it is MUSICA, not Zor Prime, who first confirms the presence of spores and their unhappy implications, as her and Bowie get there before Zor Prime and the rest of the 15th when things are going critical. Clearly she knows what she's talking about.

But again, you are assuming it has to be spores or seeds. It doesn't.

[Colonel Wolfe]

But again, you are assuming it has to be spores or seeds. It doesn't.

QFT- its an Alien plant, so the rules of earth based plants need never apply...

[glitterboy2098]

But again, you are assuming it has to be spores or seeds. It doesn't.

QFT- its an Alien plant, so the rules of earth based plants need never apply...

spores and seeds are both reproductive methods. mutually exclusive methods, mind you, even if we ignore the genetic and cellular aspect of earth plants.

spores are a reproductive method of high volume production of plant embyro's, spread in huge quantities. spores don't have any sort of nutrition packaged into them, so they are reliant on finding the ideal conditions for growth. spores are an "r" reproduction strategy. put out lots of offspring, most will die, but a few will survive.

seeds are a low volume reproductive method. a seed comes packaged with enough nutrients for the embyronic plant to grow for some time. seeds are spread in far lower numbers, but each seed is far more likely to survive to produce an adult plant. seeds are a "k" reproduction strategy.

r and k strategies are mutually exclusive. you can't have one species that uses both at the same time. they meet the same evolutionary stresses with very different solutions to the same problem.

FoL might be an alien plant, and it might use some chemical processes very different from earth plants (not too different mind you, if it can grow here), but the basic laws involving survival and adaption aren't going to be overturned. if its reproductive method can be described as a spore, it means that functionaly speaking it is a spore. a plant embyro with no extra nutients packaged with it, dispersed in huge amounts.... and not a seed. and if the plant uses one, it isn't going to use another.

it would be like an animal reproducing via both mass spawning of jelly-eggs like a frog, and individual live birth. no evolutionary advantage to doing both, and lots of disadvantage due to the amount of extra energy required to accomplish both.

Musica's song clearly conveys deep socio-cultural impact...its enough to trigger the very Zor you're talking about's reemerging memories. That hardly seems an appropriate place to toss in faulty lyrics. Moreover, as I recall it is MUSICA, not Zor Prime, who first confirms the presence of spores and their unhappy implications, as her and Bowie get there before Zor Prime and the rest of the 15th when things are going critical. Clearly she knows what she's talking about.

and the song is not about the reproductive method. it is about the plant. the song would have been a psychological trigger regardless of the specific word used, since the important part was the lyrics about how the master's society is reliant on the flower.
the song also says that "Flower--let me hold you. We depend upon. The power that you give"
should we take these lines to mean that the flowers themselves provide energy? despite tons of lines to the contrary by people like the robotech masters, the science masters, zor, etc, saying that protoculture is made from spores?

songs do not have to be literal to have power over peoples mind. heck, most people in america have no clue what the lyrics of "yankee doodle dandy' actually mean, much less the obscure useage of the term "macaroni' in the song, but the song is still a major patriotic one. play a theme song to a favorite show, and people will recognize it instantly.. even if they can't remember the lyrics right or why the song tied into the show.

[Tiree]

But again, you are assuming it has to be spores or seeds. It doesn't.

QFT- its an Alien plant, so the rules of earth based plants need never apply...

spores and seeds are both reproductive methods. mutually exclusive methods, mind you, even if we ignore the genetic and cellular aspect of earth plants.

I am willing to give the alien plant the benefit of doubt that it does both. Because it does spread across the planet, quickly (ala spores). And can seem to grow in nearly environment (seeds).

But maybe it has two stages of plant life. Maybe it's like a Moth and goes through a metamorphosis stage, where a plant drops seeds, that produces a plant that blooms spores. And the spores are dropped everywhere where it makes a plant that produces seeds.

I personally don't care - as I believe it does both.

[Colonel Wolfe]

But again, you are assuming it has to be spores or seeds. It doesn't.

QFT- its an Alien plant, so the rules of earth based plants need never apply...

spores and seeds are both reproductive methods. mutually exclusive methods....
basic laws involving survival and adaption aren't going to be overturned.....

"Basic laws" for life on Earth means little to things beyond Earth... the invid are a Race that evolved the ability to transmute matter.. there is reason to think that a plant from their homeworld would be just as unique.

[glitterboy2098]

except that here we are dealing with reproduction. there is little evolutionary advantage to having both systems, when the same effort can be placed into just doing more of one or the other.


and frankly, the only reason the fans are hung up on seeds anyway is because of the mckinneyist explanation for protoculture. which we know is wrong, because the robotech masters state specifically in the show (during their little face off with Dana) that they use spores of the flower of life to make protoculture. and we know from multiple lines that FoL grows from spores.

heck, the only line we have to support seeds is from that song.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I know, only the Creator of Robotech said Protoculture comes from the germinated Seeds of the flower of life...
and Frankly, I've never read the Mckinney novels...
I mean god no, its only the fans who claim that the plant has both seeds and spores.. and its not on the official website of the IP owners... http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/encyc ... .php?id=32

[glitterboy2098]

hey, canon policy is canon policy. show trumps all according to HG, and the show says PC is made from spores.

[Colonel Wolfe]

hey, canon policy is canon policy. show trumps all according to HG, and the show says PC is made from spores.

and one's interpertation of the show conflicts with the Creators and Owners interpretation of the show... I'd lend more credit to the owners of the property and publishers, than to one who simply says EVERYone else is wrong.
especially since trying to say that Cartoon Alien plants must function just like Real-world Earth based plants is the basis of an argument that the Owners are wrong.

[Sgt Anjay]

Where is it ever said they use spores to make protoculture? In point of fact, is there ever any mention of spores whatsoever that is anything except negative?

Where does anything negate that Musica speaks intelligently and cogently about the Flower of Life, it's spores, and the consequences thereof, before we get any spiel from Zor Prime, thus proving she knows what she is talking about on the subject?

Then there's the fact you take the characters at their word that they literally mean spores, but not at their word that they literally mean flower (and flowers produce seeds). That's pretty...well, let's say convenient. Its especially egregious since flower is in the name of the thing. It's not the Fern of Life.

What Earth plant shares any of the incontrovertible unique characteristics of the Flower of Life, such as the ability to generate power that tops fusion? Power that is then particularly useful in the modification of genetic structures? Frankly, the fact that genetic engineering/evolution experiments are tied to the races which use the Flower of Life makes it exquisitely logical that the Flower of Life would have or could develop its own unique genetic capabilities and/or evolutionary quirks. Of the myriad possibilities, more than one method of reproduction is but a tiny one.

I'll also point out you assume there can be no advantages to the use of both methods of reproduction because organisms haven't evolved that way on Earth...as if it were impossible for an environment out in infinite space to be alien enough to encourage different evolutionary imperatives. Frankly, I find it way more unlikely from an evolutionary standpoint that another species can morph into "human with green blood", but hey, that's the setting. Beside that, "multiple reproductive methods" is pretty darn believable.

[Tiree]

and frankly, the only reason the fans are hung up on seeds anyway is because of the mckinneyist explanation for protoculture. which we know is wrong, because the robotech masters state specifically in the show (during their little face off with Dana) that they use spores of the flower of life to make protoculture. and we know from multiple lines that FoL grows from spores.

Did the first Robotech Main Book come out after the Mckinney novels? Because I remember reading about the seeds in stasis in the first RPG. And if I am not mistaken also in Robotech Art 1

[Sgt Anjay]

Don't know the months, but the Graphic Novel, Art 1, and the RPG all came out in '86. All had the seeds. The Novels? '87.

The seed thing was not a McKinneyist conceit.

[glitterboy2098]

icall it mckinneyist because the novels where what popularized it in the fanbase, not because he created it.

[ESalter]

Has anyone in the Robotech Universe considered trying to crop dust the flowers with invid insecticide? It sounds kind of stupid, but in reality it would probably be the most lethal weapon against them possible as they depend completely on the flower. Not to mention they are so alien to humans that whatever is poisonous to them is likely not poisonous to humans. Also it's highly likely the Regis would be the first one to die from such an attack since she uses the protoculture to create invid and their mecha.

I mean, it's not like we go around trying to kill off ant colonies with our boots.

I don't know; the question itself seems to presume that such an invention is easily obtained.

[KSN]

Which points to both seeds and spores existing, not one or the other.

It points to an unresolved contradiction actually.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Which points to both seeds and spores existing, not one or the other.

It points to an unresolved contradiction actually.

its really only a contradiction if people make assumptions about the FOL that aren't implied in the show.
simple assumptions like:
Alien plants have to evolve just like earth ones
Spores and Seeds are mutually exclusive in Alien plants.

[glitterboy2098]

given both are reproductive methods, and there is no conceivable evolutionary point to having both, even in a hypothetical 'alien ecosystem'..

plus we are told the FOL reproduces by spores.

plus the only evidence of seeds is from a song which is in the allegorical, not literal mode..


but hey, i repeat myself..

[KSN]

Which points to both seeds and spores existing, not one or the other.

It points to an unresolved contradiction actually.

its really only a contradiction if people make assumptions about the FOL that aren't implied in the show.
simple assumptions like:
Alien plants have to evolve just like earth ones
Spores and Seeds are mutually exclusive in Alien plants.

I agree with your point ...

That to presume the exception, rather than the rule (about fauna and flora), when dealing with an enigmatic subject like the FOL is the best method.

[Colonel Wolfe]

As both Seeds and Spores are mentioned in the show. Seeds are sung about by the Musical insperation of the Masters Society and Spores have a negative connotation attached to them by the same person.
Carl Macek, and the Property owners Current Staff say the plants have both, There is no point in saying the Owners are wrong. even if the reason for them being wrong is Earth Plants don't work like that.
There is no Conceivable reason for a plant to Give off greater than Fusion power level or be the catalyst in cloning... but it does in Robotech... so the same plant having Spores and Seeds is the least reason I need to suspend dis-belief.
I'm going to go along with what the Owners & Writers say... it has both.

[Sgt Anjay]

Heh, no conceivable reason? This is a plant tied to both genetic engineering and fueling evolution experiments, and can generate energy that tops nuclear fusion. Being able to reproduce by whichever method best fits a wildly changing environment is both a reason and conceivable, and is hardly out of reach of the plant's known capabilities.

Also? The plant is the Flower of Life. The Flower of Life. FLOWER. A plant that produces flowers is a seed-bearing plant.

Then, on top of that, Musica, the high priestess of the Robotech Masters, who proves her knowledge of the plant in question, emphatically mentions seeds in a song that awakens the memories of the very inventor of protoculture.

Added to all this, every single mention of spores comes in a negative context, or an outright dire warning. Just watch the show and the impression is very clear: spores are bad, you don't want spores, the spores ruin everything. That's a pretty sizable contrast from "We must protect the seeds or we will all fade away".

[glitterboy2098]

and from the dialog, spores are bad because the spread the flower of life. and from the dialog, spores are the source of protoculture.

as for the flower bit, i would point out that the FoL does not resemble a flowering plant. instead having leaf clusters that kind-sorta resemble petals. and there are non-flowing plants that are called flowers on earth, because they visually resembled flowers, even though they were not.

and if you bring the 'alien biology' card nto play, you can't argue about flowering vs non-flowering plants. it is easier to beleive a flower like plant would reproduce by spores than a single plant would use both spores and seeds.

both are reproductive methods. both work in nearly all enviroments. both spread their progeny over the landscape.
but spores use less resources, every seed produced would be at the expense of the resources that could be used to make several thousand spores.

on earth, it was the haploid vs diploid aspect that let seeds come to dominate. earth plants that reproduce by spores are basically budding off clones, while seed bearing plants have the chance for cross fertilization. but with alien biology, the haploid vs. diploid thing is a non-factor.

and in further viewing of the show, there is one other use of the term seed. the narrator refers to 'seeds blossoming' when the FoL in the storage matrix open. so "seeds" in the show refers to the plant, not a reproductive method.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Better grab a Quiji board and Tell Macek that he is wrong.
better email Tommy and get him to fix this error then.
better Tell the Author of the New Gen book that he is wrong too...
Honestly, I don't care, I just agree with how the Shows Creators and Owners and publishers and Authors and Fanbase interpret it. if they change it, then I'll still agree.

[glitterboy2098]

hey, HG policy is show trumps all. just because macek or tommy says something not supported by the show does not mean that it overrides the show where there is clear evidence in the show.

you can argue about the 'Sylphide veritech' because there is no clear evidence. you can argue about the "Condor veritech" because there is pretty much no evidence.

but the show is quite clear when it comes to the FoL, the spores, and the source of protoculture.

[Colonel Wolfe]

hey, HG policy is show trumps all.

is dat so? because HG's own products prove otherwise... its a "policy" that is completly ignored... Ask Scott bernard how he got his Alpha back after Corg blew it up real good...

just because macek or tommy says something not supported by the show does not mean that it overrides the show where there is clear evidence in the show.

but you see, it actaully does. since the Canon Policy that is referenced, is also ignored.
nothing said in the topic changes the fact Seeds are mentioned in the show.

you can argue about the 'Sylphide veritech' because there is no clear evidence.

going by the Logic proposed here by "Show-Thrumps-ALL", its Called one in the Show... so it has to be by the above logic... Right? its called one in the show that trumps all.

you can argue about the "Condor veritech" because there is pretty much no evidence.

only HG's wishy washy refrences to its Guardian mode... but no proof in the series as to if it does or doesn't, so the above "show trumps all" is irrelevant...

but the show is quite clear when it comes to the FoL, the spores, and the source of protoculture.

I'm sure that's one interpretation of the Dialog.... but just not the one EVERYone who has worked for Hg has taken.... ya know, the People who make the Official canon....

but I'm almost sure the equine is being pummeled beyond its life expectancy...

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

you can argue about the 'Sylphide veritech' because there is no clear evidence.

Well, actually, if the show trumps all, then there is canon dialogue stating quite plainly that the Sylphide is a Veritech. Are you saying that you now think the Sylphide is in fact a Veritech?