Sentinel Aliens in Shadow Chronicles

[MikelAmroni]

Hey guys, I had an idea percolating for a campaign (that I may or may not run), and wanted some feedback. It would be using the Shadow Chronicles base system and with those concepts in play. As such please don't get stuck on 1E was better or anything like that, please! I'm looking for ideas on bringing the aliens forward and possibly adding some new ones (and making them fit in the universe). I'm also going on the assumption that multiple colonies are established, and human space is spread out, but established - well more established than what is listed in canon for them anyway. I want to include the sentinel aliens in a campaign. Yes I have the old stuff. yes I can make it all up from scratch, no I'm not asking for full on stats for everything (cause that would be conversion and bad mojo), just ideas on how to bring the sentinel aliens into Robotech 2E (and make them RUE compliant, or at least close enough to count).

Karbarrans - I've seen several fan options of basically taking a 2 seat Alpha and making it into a one seat Alpha for a Karbarran. And they have their own power armor (which I'll have to design from the ground up). What range of SDC would you apply to them though? Comparable to a mutant bear from lone Star, or maybe the Bearmen of the North? I'm could also just use Aliens Unlimited random table and work up something from there? I'm inclined to modify the Humanoid Ape or Bison. I'd also give them the Stocky trait (under humanoid). Would any of the world modifiers apply? (Frozen World, high gravity world?) I don't think so, but its worth asking.

Garudan - Stat wise they are very different, plus some natural abilities (and of course psionics). Mutant Cats from Lone Star would be one place to start, as would the Aliens Unlimited Alien Appearance Table (Humanoid Feline, Toxic Atmosphere). Are the psionics they list the end and beginning of their abilities, or just representative? Which psionics would you let them choose?

Perytonites - See Spherians for how to handle them as PCs. Conversion would be a simple matter of making them all magic only mystics with a very specific set of spells. All spells would have to be based on Light or Force and the manipulation thereof. The spells in the Sentinels Book are a no brainer. Cannot learn normal magic, only what they instinctively learn.

Praxian - Aside from a few boosts to certain skills and MAYBE to SDC, these amazons are mostly human, though I would present a few different MOS's for them.

Spherian - Along with the Perytonites these guys are among the hardest to integrate, and I think my answer might be not to. Praxians, Garudans, and Karbarans are all very curious and would integrate okay with the UEEF, but I'm not sure the Perytonites and Spherians would. Am I wrong? As for conversion, take Mineral Humanoid add the spherian abilities from Sentinels and give them a MDC conversion based on the existing mineral humanoids in Aliens Unlimited/Phase World.

So...thoughts? Critiques? Complaints?

[taalismn]

Karbarrans - I've seen several fan options of basically taking a 2 seat Alpha and making it into a one seat Alpha for a Karbarran. And they have their own power armor (which I'll have to design from the ground up). What range of SDC would you apply to them though? Comparable to a mutant bear from lone Star, or maybe the Bearmen of the North? I'm could also just use Aliens Unlimited random table and work up something from there? I'm inclined to modify the Humanoid Ape or Bison. I'd also give them the Stocky trait (under humanoid). Would any of the world modifiers apply? (Frozen World, high gravity world?) I don't think so, but its worth asking.

?

Yep, with the exception of the Spherians, I wouldn't make anybody a natural MDC being.
Karbarreans? I'd use the Bearman, rather than the Mutant Bear, because the former is naturally evolved, not artificially eugenetically-selected for various traits. There's no evidence they grew up in a high-gee environment, but giving them an extra umph, like a natural Armor Rating for leathery skin, or resistance to airborne pollutants(Karbarrea's supposed to be either volcanically or industrially polluted. Giving them low light vision is okay too, though in the PtTSC comic, Lron's definitely un-visored(maybe contacts? Or the light in the Council Chamber is dim enough for him to do away with sun-gogs?). Really wanna pump them up? Give them Damage Resistance, like half damage from blows and concussion strikes. That way you have Karbarrean workers throwing around barrels, crates, hammers, and rolls of steel at work, without getting seriously maimed.
I wouldn't give them any serious bear-like sensory pluses, though...intelligence tends to come at the cost of uber-specialized senses, well, from the limited experience Humanity has iwth itself, and if Karbarrea really is heavily polluted, then having a good sense of smell is more a curse than anything else, like the saying 'Los Angelites don't trust air they can't see'.

[Tiree]

Karbarrean warriors should go toe to toe with your standard Micronized Zentraedi. So making them having augmented strength naturally would be worthwhile.

[Ravenwing]

I'd add some of the aliens from Aliens unlimited myself, as either adversaries or members of the UEEF Alliance or whatever you're going to call it as well.

those women with the funny hair just scream to be added to RT as badguys.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Karbarrean warriors should go toe to toe with your standard Micronized Zentraedi. So making them having augmented strength naturally would be worthwhile.

using the 3-spy's as an example of a miceronized zentradi "warrior"... a regular human can go toe-to-toe with them...
Put them on Par with a micronized version of Dolza or Breetia.

[MikelAmroni]

It does. I don't know how much I'll use, but it's great to get some feedback and have something to bounce off of! I really appreciate the time you took to get that down.

As for stats, the things I'm doing is using the range for each, subtracting 3d6 and then taking an average which gets added to the quick attribute table. This retains the tight grouping of the quick attribute table, but takes genetic disparity into account.

[jaymz]

Karbarrean warriors should go toe to toe with your standard Micronized Zentraedi. So making them having augmented strength naturally would be worthwhile.

using the 3-spy's as an example of a miceronized zentradi "warrior"... a regular human can go toe-to-toe with them...
Put them on Par with a micronized version of Dolza or Breetia.

Problem is they are not "warriors". More like put them on par with a micronized Khyron/Myria

[jaymz]

Personally I would just use the stats from the Old Sentinels RPG but keep them all SDC beings save he Spherians and Haydonites.

[MikelAmroni]

My goal in this is to use as much of the quick roll stat table as possible. So instead I'm comparing them and giving a choice of either static or random bonuses based on that.

[ShadowLogan]

Overall I would just take them as is with a few modifications. Their RCC skills would need to be updated potentially (beyond just using 2E version of a given skill it might make sense to give them some new skills that are now in 2E RT) and other skills broken down for MOS (if applicable)/Other/Sec skills.

Karbarrans: Given their size and other bearmen having higher strength classification it would be possible to give them such a strength classification

Garudan & Spherian: Leave them alone nothing needs to really change from 1E.

Perytonites: Given we have no real info on their reboot version magic could simply be dropped, stay the same, or expanded. If magic is kept just update it to the PPE model, shouldn't be to hard to figure out the Rift/PF/BtS/HU version of the spell to get a PPE cost.

Praxian: Given their genetic engineering it may be best to treat the attributes like micronized Zentreadi

[Colonel Wolfe]

Problem is they are not "warriors". More like put them on par with a micronized Khyron/Myria

Well, now your mixing 2 diffrent breeds.
Khyron is command... not much lower than say Breetia.
Miryia is "Warrior"... a chick who is beat up and defeated by a computer nerd with a rock.
putting the Care-bear-in on par with a Khyron makes for a decently tough force. making them on level with Miryia is as bad as the 3-spies.

[jaymz]

Problem is they are not "warriors". More like put them on par with a micronized Khyron/Myria

Well, now your mixing 2 diffrent breeds.
Khyron is command... not much lower than say Breetia.
Miryia is "Warrior"... a chick who is beat up and defeated by a computer nerd with a rock.
putting the Care-bear-in on par with a Khyron makes for a decently tough force. making them on level with Miryia is as bad as the 3-spies.

Yet Khyron himself seems to recognize Myria as a superior combatant and she was obviously an officer/commander of some type as she did command forces. The factthe ONLY female forces we see are in fact Azonia's, that makes them elite. Thus Myria is elite within the elite and your condescension towards Macross notwithstanding, Max was also recognized as the ace of the SDF-1 so hardly just a "nerd with a rock". By your definition then Gloval is obviously superior to Roy in regards to being a "warrior" since he is command and Roy is just a mere pilot.

[Colonel Wolfe]

By your definition then Gloval is obviously superior to Roy in regards to being a "warrior" since he is command and Roy is just a mere pilot.

wow, nice strawman there.
are Humans A Genetically created "warrior" race?
Dolza and Breetia and Khyron to some extent are all larger or tougher than their common units. (reference Breetias remarks to his subordinates after he walks in vacuum unaided.)
I know several Fighter pilots from Mcdill air-force base who are both weaker and smaller than I am. they know how to fly a jet, and might be an "ace" but that in no way makes them great boxers/wrestlers/MMA/Weightlifters.

Miryia is rthe same thing. AWESOME in her Mecha, in a fist fight, not so great,
were talking about Baseline physical attributes.
Miryia has tons of experience, tons of training in her FPA. but that doesn't mean shes gonna be stronger than a normal human female.
and Again, Max is a fighter pilot, and is an Ace in the sky. but on the ground he's a nerd with a rock.
Making the posts personal and saying my opinion on Macross has something to do with the Facts presented on screen in Robotech is borderline inflammatory.
Karbarens should be Stronger than the normal Zent Foot solider. Palladium making the normal Zents any stronger than humans when micronized doesn't jive with the onscreen strenghts of the main Micronised Zents.

[jaymz]

By your definition then Gloval is obviously superior to Roy in regards to being a "warrior" since he is command and Roy is just a mere pilot.

wow, nice strawman there.
are Humans A Genetically created "warrior" race?
Dolza and Breetia and Khyron to some extent are all larger or tougher than their common units. (reference Breetias remarks to his subordinates after he walks in vacuum unaided.)
I know several Fighter pilots from Mcdill air-force base who are both weaker and smaller than I am. they know how to fly a jet, and might be an "ace" but that in no way makes them great boxers/wrestlers/MMA/Weightlifters.

Miryia is rthe same thing. AWESOME in her Mecha, in a fist fight, not so great,
were talking about Baseline physical attributes.
Miryia has tons of experience, tons of training in her FPA. but that doesn't mean shes gonna be stronger than a normal human female.
and Again, Max is a fighter pilot, and is an Ace in the sky. but on the ground he's a nerd with a rock.
Making the posts personal and saying my opinion on Macross has something to do with the Facts presented on screen in Robotech is borderline inflammatory.
Karbarens should be Stronger than the normal Zent Foot solider. Palladium making the normal Zents any stronger than humans when micronized doesn't jive with the onscreen strenghts of the main Micronised Zents.

A - No humans are not genetically created "warrior" race but as evidenced by the existence of Exodore and the spies, not all of the "warrior" race are created equal and in fact it seems they are genetically created for function. High Command (Dolza and to a lesser extent Breetai), Command (Khyron and Azonia), Officers (Grell and Myria), Mecha Jockey (insert anonymous Zentraedi here) and recon specialists (Kondo, Rico and Bron). By your own statement above, those of a higher "rank" are better warriors since you definitely imply Myria is not a better warrior than Khyron though he seems to think she as least his equal the way he challanged her to find the macronian devil to prove herself superior. SO by that it isn't a strawman to say you must think Gloval a better warrior than Roy since Gloval is a higher "rank"

B - Khyron isn't even close to the level of Breetai or Dolza though he may think he is. Furthermore you never really see any of the named Zentraedi stadning around with faceless troops (aside from Breetai in one scene where he captures Rick). Also Grell, Khyron's subordinate is actually larger than Khyron even though Khyron is a Commander and thus by your statement above must be bigger than the rest like Breetai and Dolza. If anything Grell is probably the most prominent non commander (aside from Myria) in the entire series. You'll notice as well that Azonia is roughly the same size as Khyron and Myria was about the same size as Azonia. Does that mean tehy are all of the same "rank" since they are of similar size?

C - We have only one known example of her in HTH combat (with Max), of course unless you actually hold the new comics as canon (which they are supposed to be) in which Myria actually fights and kills several male Zentraedi rather efficiently as a demonstration of her elite fighting ability.

D - I suppose you don't recall the fact Max and Rick both went to town in the restaurant when a small riot broke out. Seems to me both of them can hold their own in a fight pretty well. Hardly makes Max a nerd with a rock but you go right ahead and believe that.

E - It isn't inflammatory if true and you have made your opinions about Macross well known (your dislike and disdain are fairly well known to the vast majority of us) elsewhere even when you have been shown to be wrong about something. Also it isn't inflammatory if I am insinuating your position on Macross skews your stance on anything involving Macross which in my opinion it does so your dislike, disdain or any other negativity towards Macross is actually quite relevant.

Warning: In our forum rules making part of your post about the poster is definitely inflammatory, so don't.

F - At least we agree about one ting. Yes Kabarran's should be stronger the humans and micronized Zentraedi should not be.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Somehow Mecha Skills have been confused with Physical Strength and Toughness... Being a good Warrior has little to do with how strong you are.
The Example my Origonal reply was to the stetament that Karbarans should be able to go toe-to-toe with Miclone Zents... and I feel that they should Shread them.
Bear-Man > Miniature "Giant" Warrior. the Ability to Fight in a Power-armor of mecha is irrelevant. as are khyron's statement about Mirya being better than he is, or Max's ability to fight in and out of a PA/mecha. Physical Strength. not Fighting Skills
I'd Give the Bearmen something akin to Juicer or Crazy level Strength.

[jaymz]

Somehow Mecha Skills have been confused with Physical Strength and Toughness... Being a good Warrior has little to do with how strong you are.
The Example my Origonal reply was that Karbarans should be able to go toe-to-toe with Miclone Zents... and I feel that they should Shread them.
Bear-Man > Miniature "Giant" Warrior. the Ability to Fight in a Power-armor of mecha is irrelevant. as are khyron's statement about Mirya being better than he is, or Max's ability to fight in and out of a PA/mecha. Physical Strength. not Fighting Skills
I'd Give the Bearmen something akin to Juicer or Crazy level Strength.

I'd agree to giving them Augmented. That or just really high PS die rolls like 6d6 or sumsuch.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I've given them 4D6+6 Augmented. Extra SDC. ect.

[jaymz]

I've given them 4D6+6 Augmented. Extra SDC. ect.

Not sure I would go that high with the die rolls myself (probably just a flat 4d6) since they are a higher level of PS to begin with but it is reasonable. Extra SC is a given.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Techincal Human max for a 1.5-2.0m human is 24.
the max for the 3-3.5m Karbarens would be 30 in my rules.
the augments ability to lift more comes with the additional mass and size they possess. (in DnD3.X they would be large sized compared to humans medium sized)

heck in the old RPG they had 5D6 PS and 4D6 PE and 3D6 PP....

[jaymz]

Techincal Human max for a 1.5-2.0m human is 24.
the max for the 3-3.5m Karbarens would be 30 in my rules.
the augments ability to lift more comes with the additional mass and size they possess. (in DnD3.X they would be large sized compared to humans medium sized)

I understand that but even if they still had a PS of 24, since it is augmented, it still stronger than the human is all. Size doesn't necessarily have to equal more dice. Especially since you increased the level of their PS anyway. Regardless, yours is reasonable just not what I would do is all.

[Tiree]

I would remove the augmented strength from the Zentraedi, and give it to the Bears! There is no reason for a normal Zent to have it. The 3 Spies should have it, and yet were beaten pretty badly by girls in a restroom.

The only person this makes sense for is Possibly Bretai, and he never Micronizes. Their Macro State, well I'll be the first one to say they should have a Robotic or some such strength

[Colonel Wolfe]

I would remove the augmented strength from the Zentraedi, and give it to the Bears! There is no reason for a normal Zent to have it. The 3 Spies should have it, and yet were beaten pretty badly by girls in a restroom.

The only person this makes sense for is Possibly Bretai, and he never Micronizes. Their Macro State, well I'll be the first one to say they should have a Robotic or some such strength

in Macro size, they deal 2x the Robotic str in damage...

[Seto Kaiba]

Karbarens should be Stronger than the normal Zent Foot solider. Palladium making the normal Zents any stronger than humans when micronized doesn't jive with the onscreen strengths of the main Micronised Zents.

Well, in fairness... Palladium's line that Zentradi miclones are stronger/tougher than basic humans does come with support from the original source material. According to the OSM, which, before you protest, is a valid and recognized source used for Robotech, the male Zentradi were engineered for brute strength and close combat capability while the females in the Zentradi forces were engineered to be better pilots. Note that, while this notion originates in the OSM, several of the subsequent Robotech bear it out... notably Miriya not being any stronger than Max when micronized, but having the newly micronized Breetai in the pseudo-canon Sentinels material be strong enough to pick women up one-handed.

(The Zentradi seem to take the idea of "authority = buttkicking" absolutely literally...)

So, it goes both ways, really... it shouldn't be a unilateral leg-up for all Zentradi, just for the men. The massive Kabarrans or however you spell it (I've forgotten how) probably ought to get a unilateral strength boost for both genders tho, on par with what a male Zentradi should have.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I can pick up women with one hand... and I'm not 7ft tall.

[Seto Kaiba]

I can pick up women with one hand... and I'm not 7ft tall.

So can I, and I'm only about half a foot short of the 7ft mark... but the average human isn't that tall, and you do need to work out a fair bit to be able to move unencumbered with two women are sitting on your biceps while you're standing up. (Lifting two at once like that is rather beyond most folks, myself included, even if they are remarkably fit.)

[Tiree]

I am not against giving Zentraedi higher strength scores, I just find the Augmented to be ridiculous. As currently written by the RPG they are as strong as some Power Armor units!

[Seto Kaiba]

I am not against giving Zentraedi higher strength scores, I just find the Augmented to be ridiculous. As currently written by the RPG they are as strong as some Power Armor units!

Well, it'd be consistent with their full-size capabilities... tho I think a micloned one having strength enough to tackle mecha definitely doesn't make sense.

Wait, did you just call Max the Godlike a Nerd with a Rock?!?!?

The "colorful" attempt to deride his abilities aside, Max doubtless had to go through basic and maintain the military's fitness requirements... meaning he's had training in forms of combat other that flying a fighter. Plus, as an exemplary pilot, he has to have some pretty impressive reflexes (esp. considering he took on and beat someone who was genetically designed for a superior level of piloting talent) even if he's not exactly a heavyweight boxing champ.

Seriously, you just can't compare Max to anyone, not even Rick, Roy, Miriya, Dana or Scott! This guy is almost a meme on his own!

Guess you missed his oft-referenced "Don't take your eyes off that monitor!" meme from Macross 7.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Wait, did you just call Max the Godlike a Nerd with a Rock?!?!?

Video games + Glasses= nerd, Rock was self explanatory.

This is the series ace! How dare you attribute something so ridiculous as NORMALCY on this epic master of...well, everything really, when has he ever failed!? ;P

Funny, that Title actually Belongs to Scott Bernard. more kills in fewer Episodes. He's everything Max is minus the nerdy aspects. He Single handedly saved the planet.

Seriously, you just can't compare Max to anyone, not even Rick, Roy, Miriya, Dana or Scott! This guy is almost a meme on his own!

Dana's Hand to and Skills are superior, and She pilots a Tank in Space. Dana is Much "cooler" than any nerdy Max.

This topic isn't about that thou.
its about Sentinels aliens.
And honestly, a BearMan should be physically stronger than a Mini-me Foot solider Zent. they were in 1st ed. should be in 2nd Ed.

[FreelancerMar]

Hrmm How about this.

Take your average Killer Grizzly Bear and put it in a steel deathmatch cage, then drop in a properly experienced micronized Zentraedi combatant in the same cage and let them fight it out. My $$$$$ would be on the bear.

As for the Max thing??? Playing Video games can actually improve your reflexes. Hrmmm. New Physical Skill Video Game Playing +2 to PP Lol.

As for Scott being better than Max???? I doubt it. Unlike most of the onscreen Zentraedi, Most of the onscreen Invid do not even attempt to evade or dodge incomming attacks. The Proof is on the screen.(I gots the ADV Protoculture edition DVD Set)

Personally I would just Keep the Sentinels RPG Book Stats and update where and when neccessary.

[ShadowLogan]

This is the series ace! How dare you attribute something so ridiculous as NORMALCY on this epic master of...well, everything really, when has he ever failed!?;

PFunny, that Title actually Belongs to Scott Bernard. more kills in fewer Episodes. He's everything Max is minus the nerdy aspects. He Single handedly saved the planet.

I would (even) put Marie above Max based on "Volunteers". Marie's highest kill count (and w/a Logan) against mecha created by the people who made the Zentreadi is more than Max's highest kill count (using a VF-1) on an episode basis. They both have similiar styles in the their respective VFs (ie primarily using their guns), where Scott's is more missile heavy.

[Seto Kaiba]

I would (even) put Marie above Max based on "Volunteers". Marie's highest kill count (and w/a Logan) against mecha created by the people who made the Zentreadi is more than Max's highest kill count (using a VF-1) on an episode basis. They both have similiar styles in the their respective VFs (ie primarily using their guns), where Scott's is more missile heavy.

Just a brief aside, the kill counts seen in the series are (expressly) not the sum total of the events therein. After all, there have been cases where the official material makes it clear that certain mecha which do OK in the series itself weren't doing so hot overall. (e.g. the Logan)

Hrmm How about this.

Take your average Killer Grizzly Bear and put it in a steel deathmatch cage, then drop in a properly experienced micronized Zentraedi combatant in the same cage and let them fight it out. My $$$$$ would be on the bear.

I'd put my money on the Karbarran over a micronized Zentradi... but then, I'd be giving the Karbarran the strength bonus it really ought to have (which the Zentadi really oughtn't).

[Tiree]

I would (even) put Marie above Max based on "Volunteers". Marie's highest kill count (and w/a Logan) against mecha created by the people who made the Zentreadi is more than Max's highest kill count (using a VF-1) on an episode basis. They both have similiar styles in the their respective VFs (ie primarily using their guns), where Scott's is more missile heavy.

Just a brief aside, the kill counts seen in the series are (expressly) not the sum total of the events therein. After all, there have been cases where the official material makes it clear that certain mecha which do OK in the series itself weren't doing so hot overall. (e.g. the Logan)

Wouldn't this put more evidence that the pilot of the Logan was a superior pilot then?

Not only does it make reference that a person flying an 'Inferior Fighter' into combat is superior, it can also be taken that the Bioroids were superior in combat than the Battlepods.

[ShadowLogan]

I would (even) put Marie above Max based on "Volunteers". Marie's highest kill count (and w/a Logan) against mecha created by the people who made the Zentreadi is more than Max's highest kill count (using a VF-1) on an episode basis. They both have similiar styles in the their respective VFs (ie primarily using their guns), where Scott's is more missile heavy.

Just a brief aside, the kill counts seen in the series are (expressly) not the sum total of the events therein. After all, there have been cases where the official material makes it clear that certain mecha which do OK in the series itself weren't doing so hot overall. (e.g. the Logan)

Granted the onscreen kill count is not the definative total (and shouldn't be considered as such), the onscreen performance (and dialogue) tends to be how people form their opionion in such matters along with personal bias. AFAIK there is no official material that discusses kill totals per episode for RT that includes offscreen events, which we both know could change but the visual record isn't going to short of a major editing job. Hence why comparing the visuals/dialogue statements is a lot easier than speculating on what happened offscreen.

If we take into consideration the platforms involved it really speaks volumes of Marie's ability since the Logan is generally regarded as inferior to the VF-1. And we know the bioroid is more technologically advanced than a Regult from indirect dialogue.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Video Gamer(new Physical Skill)-
you spent a significant time gaming. from this you developed better reflexes... but other things may have suffered.
Bonuses:
+2 PP
+(1-1D3) to PS
+(1-1D3) to PE
+(1-1D6) to SPD
+10% Electronics: Basic

[Tiree]

what no bonus to ME?

[Seto Kaiba]

Wouldn't this put more evidence that the pilot of the Logan was a superior pilot then?

Not only does it make reference that a person flying an 'Inferior Fighter' into combat is superior, it can also be taken that the Bioroids were superior in combat than the Battlepods.

But it's also explicitly provided that the Masters aren't fighting anywhere near the top of their game due to a lack of fuel, so the comparison kind of falls apart there. (Personally, I think the Infopedia is doing the Logan a bit of an injustice, but that's what's official... that the Logan "fared poorly" during the war. Similarly, I think the RPG's strength bonuses for the Zentradi are perhaps a little too generous... after all, it's only Britai who was shown as able to dismember VFs with his bare hands.)

Video Gamer(new Physical Skill)-
you spent a significant time gaming. from this you developed better reflexes... but other things may have suffered.
Bonuses:
+2 PP
+(1-1D3) to PS
+(1-1D3) to PE
+(1-1D6) to SPD
+10% Electronics: Basic

I know this was posited as a joke, but I just might run with it... I've got one player in a game we're prepping who wants to run a character who gets into piloting because he's hooked on those VF piloting games.

[Colonel Wolfe]

what no bonus to ME?

only if you include an equal penalty to MA.

[jaymz]

Not sure you should get a PS bonus. The other bonuses make sense though.

[glitterboy2098]

my thoughts..

Karbarrans - definately should have stats on par with a micronized zent. perhaps shifted a bit more towards strength and toughness and away from mental aspects, perhaps. maybe give them lower MA or ME or something.
from a socio-cultural standpoint, i'd avoid making them 'space bears', despite the appearance. you can make them seem more alien if they look like bears but behave more like something else. say, intelligent tigers or something. pick some social quirks as well, to make them more interesting.
technologically, i'd make them a bit like the colonials in battlestar galactica. they build starships using an (obsolete) tyrolian techbase (basically zentraedi level stuff) and using Fusion power, but they have to use a lot of manual controls and bulky components because their own technology barely hit the computer age before they got access to the more advanced stuff, so their ships are an anachronism stew. where they can copy the tech of others the stuff is fairly advanced, but it doesn't extend to the parts around it.

Garudan - see my bit about not making them behave like the animals they resemble. aliens should be alien. if they look familiar they need to have different behavior and society to balance out.
oh, and drop the stupid rod feet. they ought to have real feet, just to avoid looking silly.

Perytonites - definately should be mystics with innate powers, not trained. you could split the difference too. make it where they have innate powers, but training lets them do more 'spells'... but doesn't work for anyone but Perytonites. i'd personally fluff their 'magic' as an alternate form of psionics. mainly to avoid making it actual magic.
physically i'd downplay the 'conehead' and play up the horns more.. give them more of a beastial appearance, IMO. not too much, but a slightly elongate face, and maybe digitgard legs would help make them less silly looking, and more intimidating. (plus it would help seperate them from star war's devaronians visually.)

Praxian - IMO, just taller humans. culturally i'd drop the "metal bikini amazons" for an approach more like the Solnoids of the Gall force series. basically an all female version of humanity. they'd wear normal clothes, fight with normal weapons, etc. none of the silly cross bows and robohorses and such. if you really want to keep the metal bikini's, you can go a Themyscira route with their formal wear and religious outfits.
technologically i'd see them basically just using the same gear as the UEEF. if you want them to have their own unique hardware, i'd just suggest borrowing the solnoid stuff from the gall force series. it was made by the same designers as the MOSPEADA stuff, so it looks close enough to drop in as is.

Spherian - Spherians i'd say need a major visual make over. the crystal idea is cool, but the smooth sculpture like appearance just looks too artificial. i rather like the idea that a 'natural' spherian looks like a rocky outcropping or a cluster of crystals like some sort of crystal golem, and that the polished sculture ones are their 'diplomatic corps' that have undergone cosmetic surgery to look more like the organic beings they interact with.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I would just go with the 1st ed stats till they get the 2nd ed stats published.
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The current sphereian that I am playing is a child who's parents carved him in the shape of their human friend. So if you are not looking too closely he looks human.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Not sure you should get a PS bonus. The other bonuses make sense though.

Ps penalty. the bonus range is 0 to -2.

[jaymz]

Not sure you should get a PS bonus. The other bonuses make sense though.

Ps penalty. the bonus range is 0 to -2.

Ah ok I misread that as + 1 to 1d3. Tough I would argue then the PE should actually get a bonus since gamers seem to be able to go long stretches without bathroom, food or sleep breaks....

[Colonel Wolfe]

Not sure you should get a PS bonus. The other bonuses make sense though.

Ps penalty. the bonus range is 0 to -2.

Ah ok I misread that as + 1 to 1d3. Tough I would argue then the PE should actually get a bonus since gamers seem to be able to go long stretches without bathroom, food or sleep breaks....

yeah, but I don't know many gamers who physical endurance for running, or strenuous activities is helped by sitting around not bathing, or eating. for days on end waiting for a rare spawn to appear in dun morage.

[ShadowLogan]

Not sure you should get a PS bonus. The other bonuses make sense though.

Ps penalty. the bonus range is 0 to -2.

Ah ok I misread that as + 1 to 1d3. Tough I would argue then the PE should actually get a bonus since gamers seem to be able to go long stretches without bathroom, food or sleep breaks....

yeah, but I don't know many gamers who physical endurance for running, or strenuous activities is helped by sitting around not bathing, or eating. for days on end waiting for a rare spawn to appear in dun morage.

Maybe give them a bonus to PE for for certain circumstances like "wardrobe & grooming" (IIRC) does w/MA & PB or other bonus/perk (+ save vs bladder control, etc). Then again it maybe more a mental thing than physical (so ME instead of PE for those circumstances)?

[jaymz]

Not sure you should get a PS bonus. The other bonuses make sense though.

Ps penalty. the bonus range is 0 to -2.

Ah ok I misread that as + 1 to 1d3. Tough I would argue then the PE should actually get a bonus since gamers seem to be able to go long stretches without bathroom, food or sleep breaks....

yeah, but I don't know many gamers who physical endurance for running, or strenuous activities is helped by sitting around not bathing, or eating. for days on end waiting for a rare spawn to appear in dun morage.

PE isn't just about physical exertion. It is about dealing with sleep deprivation etc as well. Not only that, they could have more hit points because their "excess" mass could allow them to take more hits too You could make it so that there is a % penalty to any "physical" activities and they fatigue quicker.

[jaymz]

Not sure you should get a PS bonus. The other bonuses make sense though.

Ps penalty. the bonus range is 0 to -2.

Ah ok I misread that as + 1 to 1d3. Tough I would argue then the PE should actually get a bonus since gamers seem to be able to go long stretches without bathroom, food or sleep breaks....

yeah, but I don't know many gamers who physical endurance for running, or strenuous activities is helped by sitting around not bathing, or eating. for days on end waiting for a rare spawn to appear in dun morage.

Maybe give them a bonus to PE for for certain circumstances like "wardrobe & grooming" (IIRC) does w/MA & PB or other bonus/perk (+ save vs bladder control, etc). Then again it maybe more a mental thing than physical (so ME instead of PE for those circumstances)?

Seems the semi rare occurrence of Shadow and I being on the same page has happened

[camk4evr]

I was tempted to say the same as Jaymz and Drewkitty said and use the same stats from the 1st ed until the 2nd ed stats are created but then I read looked through my Sentinels book and said F__k that. So here's my suggestion. Just keep in mind that all bonuses and penalties are applied after bonus dice (if any) are rolled

Zentraedi: I know that there are character creation rules for them in the Macross book but that's really only good for the clones who will have little variation (stats wise) between each clone of their 'breed' and doesn't really work that well with Zentraedi that reproduce the natural way (natural by our standards^_^). Basically Zentraedi roll 3d6 like humans but apply a +4 bonus to PE and, if male (znetran) add +4 to PS while females (meltran) add +4 to PP. Then they apply a penalty of -4 to ME (any race that can be so easliy swayed by listening to Minmei deserve, at least, that much of an ME penalty^_^) with another -4 to MA (they do tend to react violently when under stress ^_^)

Tiresians: Like the zentraedi the rules for tiresians (or whatever they're called in 2nd ed) are better for the cloned/eugenically bred tiresians and not ones like Rem, Cabel, and others on Tirol or those survivors of the Masters' fleet that start breeding naturally (not that there's enough time for a PC to be born and raised between the Masters' defeat and the Invid invasion. So I think they should get a +4 to IQ with a -2 to both PE and PS as they are more intellectually oriented than their zentreadi creations.

Hybrids: Half-human hybrids will get half their alien parents bonuses and penalties, while 1/4 aliens hybrids get 1/4 the bonuses/penalties, and 3/4 alien hybrid get 3/4 the bonuses/penalties (not that you're likely to have an alien grandparent by the events of Shadow chronicles).

A half-tiresian half-zentraedi hybrid rolls stats as human as their bonuses and penalties negate each other.

And before anyones asks/comments, yes I know genetics doesn't exactly work that way.

Karbarrens: They apear to be larger than the most zentraedi so I'd say give them a +6 bonus to both PS and PE and because of their size I can't exactly picture as being very fast or agile so I say give them a -6 to both Spd and PP. As a side not I really hated the IQ penalty they get in the Sentinels book as any race that can interface a lower tech level with the super tech of the Masters shouldn't have such penalties to their IQ

Garudans: They get a +4 to ME due to their Psionic nature and since they need a breather mask when in the same atmosphere as humans and other sentinel races should be enough of a penalty to balance the ME boost while a -5-10% (initial) skill penalty would balance out their psi powers as they need to take time from learning skills to learn to control their powers.

Perytonians: Like the Garudans they get a +4 to their ME because of their (magic?) powers however due to their wide spread mutations they get a -4 to PB. Also, like the Garudans they get a -5-10% on their skills (initially) due to time spent learning to control their powers.

Praxians: Like the zentraedi the all female praxians are a warrior race (okay the zentraedi are technically a soldier race and, yes, there is a difference) but they aren't created as specialized as the zentraedi (ie one group as pilots the other as infantry) so they get a +2 to both PS and PP and +2 to PE and like the zentraedi their more agressive/arrogant nature makes it harder to make friends and influence people so they get a -4 to MA and -2 to ME. Also they have to take HTH: Martial Arts at the cost of 1, 2 or 3 other skills depending on their OCC (unless Martial Arts is already an OCC skill) and at least 2 additional ancient weapon proficiencies at the cost of 1 other skill for each of these proficiensies.

Spheresians: Keep them MDC beins but have their MDC equal to the SDC and hit points that everyone else gets (ie PE plus 1d6/lvl plus sdc from skills and classes becomes their MDC on a point-to-point basis). Due to their (very) alien crystaline nature they get a +6 to PE however other races have trouble relating to them so they get a -3 to MA and PB. Also their ability to teleport through rock costs them 2 other skills

[MikelAmroni]

Wow, lots of traffic. Glad we're past the ugliness. First, a few comments. I'm specifically NOT rewriting the existing material. Agree or disagree, Zentraedi have augmented strength. So to will Karbarrans. Half-Zentraedi do not. Half Zentraedi and Half Tirolians have their abilities defined. Move along.

For stats so far I've taken the old school stats (adjusted for logic where necessary - i.e. Karbarrans are not idiots! Normal intelligence, normal 3d6 for I.Q.), and included an option beside them which is a static modifier to the Quick Attribute table. Where appropriate I've included minimum stats (Karbarrans have a minimum 17 for strength) - though mostly it's to keep the ones with negatives within reason.

Karbarrans are a very clever race with a strong manufacturing background despite not being a prolific race of designers - best knock off artists in the galaxy. Give them plans and molds (or parts to make molds from) and they can create anything. They may brute force some aspects (using mechanical robotic arms over gravity manipulating beams, etc), but they can adapt to pretty well anything. Basically they use brute force over finesse and tend to focus on function over form. I intend to have the whole of galactic commerce not controlled by the Robotech Masters having been based on Robotech Master's technology that the Karbarrans adapted for use with stuff they could build. If you ever saw the last few episodes of Enterprise, look at how the aliens had the Nazi's producing their tech. That's my view of how the Karbarrans can reproduce Robotech Master tech, with just a few advisors. With full on integration like what the UEEF is doing, they can do better than that (that and UEEF manufacturing is a lot closer to them in manufacturing base - being only 50-60 years more advanced, not hundreds of years). What I'm considering is giving the Karbarrans a cultural bonus of +10% to all mechanical and electrical (except for Protoculture Engineer, Mecha Engineering, and Robotechnology Engineering) skills due to their tendency to tinker and instinctively understand these sorts of systems easily. Doesn't grant them anything, but it means that Karbarran Engineers are slightly better than average. Thoughts?

As for the Garudans, I'm not giving them any kind of predatory animal bonuses. The base animals they evolved from might be predators, but their connection to the Hin and therefore everything means they are no longer predators in the base survival sense, much like humans. That said, their form is much different than ape base, so they get some modifiers to speed, and they are more mentally resilient, and their synapses fire a bit faster (slight boost to IQ). I am also boosting the amount of psionics they have, and changing the availability of the Garudan female's powers. No more Mind Bolt. Males tend towards healing and sensitive powers, where as females tend towards physical and sensitive powers. One of the guidelines I am using for available powers is that Garudans cannot affect their environment, though they can affect the minds of others, and their own body. Environmental manipulation is the province of the Perytonans. Therefore - no telekinesis, but telekinetic leap is okay. Clairvoyance is a strictly male thing. All of the other male powers are actually garudan abilities. In general females protect the family unit, males care for it. Because of their link to the Hin (and therefore resistance to killing more than is strictly necessary) the females use fear and hunting prowess to scare away threats (one of the reasons why they fell to both the Invid and the Robotech Masters and their Zentraedi soldiers: being afraid just means they come back with greater force and shoot first). And part of why they tend to travel in family groups is that females provoke and males sooth. They can get along without the other, but males tend to get run over and end up needing a champion and females tend to get on EVERYONE's nerves. If their emotional dependency wasn't rooted in thousands of years of evolution it might just be sad (still is to some). And its definitely alien to humans, though completely relate-able to players. Oh yeah, and so totally not using the rod feet thing.

Perytonans: What few magic "spells" they have access to are actually just a specialized form of psionics. Effectively they'll be psionic powers, powered by ISP. Like I said with the Garudans, they have the ability to confuse not the mind, but rather affect their environment. All of their "illusion" and "light" abilities are a photokinetic manipulation of light. Their abilities will be based on kinetic manipulation of the elements, using super powers and spells where psionics are lacking. I'm using Prelude for the look of the Sentinel Aliens (let's face it, if we ever see stats for Sentinels, it will be based on the imagery given in Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles; whether you hate or love it.

Praxians are genetically tweaked humans, not unlike the Zentraedi and Tirolian Clones. Their armor will NOT be metal bikinis. That's not to say they won't prefer fewer clothes to more (cultural, plus climate), but battle requires real armor, not leaving your midriff exposed to to laser blasts! As for Crossbows and other simple weapons, I'm actually going to keep that - they are predisposed to be good in stealth and hand to hand combat. One of the things I liked about Praxians was the idea that they used hand to hand to fight the Invid, and explosive bolts to avoid the Invid's detection. Enhanced Strength, agility, endurance, and beauty (due to genetic tweaking) - but perfectly capable of having children with zentraedi, tirolians and humans. However without the direct tweaking of the eggs by the genetics complex that creates them, they are baseline human for the purposes of these pairings. No enhanced strength or even massive stat bonuses, but enough to make a difference.

Spherians are the one race I really don't have much on. I'll probably use some of the races in Aliens Unlimited (and possibly Phase World) as basis for my tweaks. No clue on what I'm going to do there. A few ideas i do have: First they have Hit Points and PE - they are energy beings with a shell they build from crystalline rocks. Their shells will be S.D.C. with the option of using their personal I.S.P. to fuse it further creating a M.D.C. structure. They'll also be able to add S.D.C., add limbs, their energy rod weapon, etc. There will be a menu of abilities they can do with their I.S.P. I almost went with P.P.E., but I wanted to keep it to the one power resource. They'll use a special form of telepathy to communicate. They don't read minds as much as they read context and interpret vibrations and radio wave communication to communicate with other creatures. They then project a form of telepathy to the aliens in order to communicate with them.

[jaymz]

Nice

[ESalter]

WRT Gryphon's Sentinels:

Zentraedi: I know that there are character creation rules for them in the Macross book but that's really only good for the clones who will have little variation (stats wise) between each clone of their 'breed' and doesn't really work that well with Zentraedi that reproduce the natural way (natural by our standards^_^). Basically Zentraedi roll 3d6 like humans but apply a +4 bonus to PE and, if male (znetran) add +4 to PS while females (meltran) add +4 to PP. Then they apply a penalty of -4 to ME (any race that can be so easliy swayed by listening to Minmei deserve, at least, that much of an ME penalty^_^) with another -4 to MA (they do tend to react violently when under stress ^_^)

The best Zentraedi pilot alive was beaten by someone who just happened to be in the city at the time of the space fold: I doubt Zentraedi physical characteristics are all that different from humans'. Likewise, if Zentraedi were that mentally unstable, it would make a mockery of attempts to assimilate them into human society. IMO, +/-1 bonus/penalties are more reasonable. (I'd make Zentraedi benefits more along the lines of saving throw bonuses.)

WRT Garudians: FWIW, RA3 calls them "grazers."

FWIW, the uRRG has writeups on the Garudians and Spherians.

OT: This is kind of a tangent, but considering the Sentinels were supposed to be learning from each other, I've thought about the possibility of a "space ninja" "prestige"-type class that included powers/abilities from all the Sentinels races.