Questions, Erata and nits, Robotech®: New Generation™

[ShadowLogan]

I don't think they teleported in and out so much as they folded. They pass through a bright plane at the entrances & exits, travel across/through an energy plane/grid toward a bright sphere and glowing horizon, then form beyond the exit plane from a flash/discharge of energy. Some kind of wormhole or fixed fold perhaps connecting the Regis' chamber to the outside and possibly other areas of the main hive or maybe even other hives?

I would consider Space Fold to be the mechanisim by which the teleportation occurs. It does not need to follow the Star Trek model.

IINM ships are said to (re- AND/OR de- ?) materialize from hyperspace or am I thinking of something else? Because if they materialize from hyperspace how is that different than a teleporter w/materializing at other locations at least as far as language is concerned.

[Nightmask]

I don't think they teleported in and out so much as they folded. They pass through a bright plane at the entrances & exits, travel across/through an energy plane/grid toward a bright sphere and glowing horizon, then form beyond the exit plane from a flash/discharge of energy. Some kind of wormhole or fixed fold perhaps connecting the Regis' chamber to the outside and possibly other areas of the main hive or maybe even other hives?

I would consider Space Fold to be the mechanisim by which the teleportation occurs. It does not need to follow the Star Trek model.

IINM ships are said to (re- AND/OR de- ?) materialize from hyperspace or am I thinking of something else? Because if they materialize from hyperspace how is that different than a teleporter w/materializing at other locations at least as far as language is concerned.

Because a teleporter like in Star Trek basically scans your molecular structure, remembers that pattern, breaks you down into energy, sends that energy to the end point then reassembles it back into the original matter. Space Folding on the other hand doesn't break anything down, it simply transitions you into another dimension then drops you out of it at your destination. While in both cases something appears where it wasn't there are vast differences involved.

[ShadowLogan]

Because a teleporter like in Star Trek basically scans your molecular structure, remembers that pattern, breaks you down into energy, sends that energy to the end point then reassembles it back into the original matter. Space Folding on the other hand doesn't break anything down, it simply transitions you into another dimension then drops you out of it at your destination. While in both cases something appears where it wasn't there are vast differences involved.

I'm advocating that that the Star Trek Teleporter (the transporter) method not be the model for RT's teleports. The Teleporter in Robotech would operate like a Space Fold Drive.

While the underlying mechanics of a Star Trek Teleport and RT Space Fold are different, both are known to describe the event as a materialization.

In "Dark Finale" the SDF-3 is said to never materialized from hyperspace. (Tech: "No sir no indication at all the SDF-3 never materialized from hyper-space after that last jump") I'm pretty sure there are other hyper-space materializations mentioned in the dialogue I just don't have quotes available.

[Nightmask]

Because a teleporter like in Star Trek basically scans your molecular structure, remembers that pattern, breaks you down into energy, sends that energy to the end point then reassembles it back into the original matter. Space Folding on the other hand doesn't break anything down, it simply transitions you into another dimension then drops you out of it at your destination. While in both cases something appears where it wasn't there are vast differences involved.

I'm advocating that that the Star Trek Teleporter (the transporter) method not be the model for RT's teleports. The Teleporter in Robotech would operate like a Space Fold Drive.

While the underlying mechanics of a Star Trek Teleport and RT Space Fold are different, both are known to describe the event as a materialization.

In "Dark Finale" the SDF-3 is said to never materialized from hyperspace. (Tech: "No sir no indication at all the SDF-3 never materialized from hyper-space after that last jump") I'm pretty sure there are other hyper-space materializations mentioned in the dialogue I just don't have quotes available.

Well just because they refer to it as materialization doesn't mean they've anything in common beyond something appearing where it wasn't before. A mage conjuring up bread and milk has materialized it but it had nothing to do with folding space or disassembling a loaf of bread and pitcher of milk somewhere else and bringing it to where he currently is. It's a great deal more than just mechanics, as one you're just bypassing a lot of space in between (Space Folding) and in the other you're effectively destroying it and rebuilding it elsewhere (with quite a few questions as to whether or not that 'you' at the end is really the 'you' that went in or if it's just a copy and you're just dead).

[ShadowLogan]

@nightmask
I DO NOT SEE why a teleport in Robotech must follow the Star Trek approach.

It would seem the Space Fold doesn't have any practical limits to how large/small something has to be to be transported. Gravity is an issue, but is just a limitation of the technology, much like Star Trek's transporter can't work through force fields.

[Nightmask]

@nightmask
I DO NOT SEE why a teleport in Robotech must follow the Star Trek approach.

It would seem the Space Fold doesn't have any practical limits to how large/small something has to be to be transported. Gravity is an issue, but is just a limitation of the technology, much like Star Trek's transporter can't work through force fields.

Not seeing where you got the idea I said it had to follow the Star Trek approach merely pointed out how the process is fundamentally different than actual teleportation or space-folding. Star Trek transporters can't work through force fields because you're still sending someone across the intervening space you're just making them into energy so its at light speed, so obviously since the force fields block energy they block the beams. At least until they learned how to adjust transporters to sync with the field and pass through it and of course that created other problems.

[Tiree]

All throughout the IMU section the word Ajax is used instead of AGACS. I'm not sure if this is a goof, but it is odd to say the least.

[Colonel Wolfe]

All throughout the IMU section the word Ajax is used instead of AGACS. I'm not sure if this is a goof, but it is odd to say the least.

http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha ... .php?id=51
Ajax is a name listed on the infopedia for the AGAG... so its technically open game... but its more likely the more hold overs by the Author from 1st edition.

[Colonel Wolfe]

but a Question? Where are the 1200x 3 inch round for the 78mm Canon on the Ares held? on the Defender the ammo is held inside the body of the Defender... but welding on the 78mm canons on the AGAG leave no place for the Ammo to go...

[ShadowLogan]

Not seeing where you got the idea I said it had to follow the Star Trek approach merely pointed out how the process is fundamentally different than actual teleportation or space-folding.

Your model of teleportation follows the Trek approach with regard to the subject. For teleportation to occur does not require that specific approach and could be done as a form of Space Folding or some other method (ex. travel via another dimension). It also gets around those torny issues you mentioned that are a result of the Trek model.

[Nightmask]

Not seeing where you got the idea I said it had to follow the Star Trek approach merely pointed out how the process is fundamentally different than actual teleportation or space-folding.

Your model of teleportation follows the Trek approach with regard to the subject. For teleportation to occur does not require that specific approach and could be done as a form of Space Folding or some other method (ex. travel via another dimension). It also gets around those torny issues you mentioned that are a result of the Trek model.

Again not getting where you keep calling it my model, I delineated the differences between Star Trek teleportation and Space Folding someone else mentioned I advocated no form of teleportation.

[jedi078]

but a Question? Where are the 1200x 3 inch round for the 78mm Canon on the Ares held? on the Defender the ammo is held inside the body of the Defender... but welding on the 78mm canons on the AGAG leave no place for the Ammo to go...

The ammo bins for the Defender are in the 'shoulders' but yes the Ares has no apparent place to store the 78mm ammo.

http://ptn.home.xs4all.nl/images/defend_mag1.jpg

[Colonel Wolfe]

but a Question? Where are the 1200x 3 inch round for the 78mm Canon on the Ares held? on the Defender the ammo is held inside the body of the Defender... but welding on the 78mm canons on the AGAG leave no place for the Ammo to go...

The ammo bins for the Defender are in the 'shoulders' but yes the Ares has no apparent place to store the 78mm ammo.

http://ptn.home.xs4all.nl/images/defend_mag1.jpg

yeah a bit more deatials here... its in the "shoulders" of the body, veruses the "Shoulders" of the guns.
http://macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/destr ... ineart.gif

[jedi078]

but a Question? Where are the 1200x 3 inch round for the 78mm Canon on the Ares held? on the Defender the ammo is held inside the body of the Defender... but welding on the 78mm canons on the AGAG leave no place for the Ammo to go...

The ammo bins for the Defender are in the 'shoulders' but yes the Ares has no apparent place to store the 78mm ammo.

http://ptn.home.xs4all.nl/images/defend_mag1.jpg

yeah a bit more deatials here... its in the "shoulders" of the body, veruses the "Shoulders" of the guns.
http://macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/destr ... ineart.gif

Yeah, those are better details.

Still the Ares is missing someplace to store the 78mm ammo.

[Colonel Wolfe]

but a Question? Where are the 1200x 3 inch round for the 78mm Canon on the Ares held? on the Defender the ammo is held inside the body of the Defender... but welding on the 78mm canons on the AGAG leave no place for the Ammo to go...

The ammo bins for the Defender are in the 'shoulders' but yes the Ares has no apparent place to store the 78mm ammo.

http://ptn.home.xs4all.nl/images/defend_mag1.jpg

yeah a bit more deatials here... its in the "shoulders" of the body, veruses the "Shoulders" of the guns.
http://macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/destr ... ineart.gif

Yeah, those are better details.

Still the Ares is missing someplace to store the 78mm ammo.

considering the stats say it hold only 300 round less than the Defender... and the Barrels on the guns have to be cut down so they dont drag the ground... its unlikely that it hold even that much ammo, or still has the 10 mile range.

[Colonel Wolfe]

The Ares is the most rewritten part of the book, so I can't answer any questions on its final form really. However, you can keep range on a slug-thrower by altering the materials used in the barrel design as well as the design of the barrel itself. You can also change the firing mechanism, propellant and weight of the ammunition to affect range. It isn't just barrel length.

Honestly... if the "Freedom Fighter" movement has the resources and know-how to completely Re-engineer and re-design the 78mm guns.. why are they adding them to the Ajax?
Where od the find these Materials? the Logistical trail to aquire raw materials to make the ammo is Staggering... much less taking into account the materials, and Engineers needed to Completely Re-make the Barrels on the 78mm canons...
It just happens to be that a Experienced Engineer survived... and he found the plant that makes each of these items, and then found the resources to manufacture new barrels & ammo for a mecha unit that's over 20years old at that point... especially since the Manufacturing in question was all from Pre-ROD designs...
on top of this, this same Engineer needs to be able to re-design the Ammo, and Re-tool the plants to make the new ammo, most likely hand making molds and adjusting equipment that has been un-used for years on end... Looks like more work that its worth... when they seam to be easy to replace the SLMH-reactor in mecha with PC-cell reactors... the Widow-maker is a decent design. it actually makes some sense... the Ares is more work that i really think a unorganized freedom fighter movement could muster in invid occupied earth, especially since the books writes the invid to completely dominate the entire planet.. even thou Scott and Crew talk about being near the "Edge" of invid territory.

note on the Widow-Maker... the Battiloid ART is the Wrong Mecha... look at the leg thruster on the transport mode.. they are rounded... the Legs on the battiloid are tri-angular and squared.. its not the same mecha. (this is the same error in the ASC book too...)

[jedi078]

The GR-80 can be used as a modular weapon system similar to those of other cyclones with minor adjustments. It predates the newer models. It would be a simple fix for a mechanic.

The only reason I can see the GR-80 not being used over the GR-97 on the newer cyclone models is that the GR-80 somehow interferes with the operation of the cyclone. The GR-80 is a perfect fit for the Silverback's wheel mounts, so I can still see it being in use by 2044.

The eye shot is definitely something developed by freedom fighters due to necessity and would not be something excelled at by the UEEF. Why? Resources. An Invid trooper isn't that hard to blow up when you unload on it, or when you're traveling with a platoon, that's part of a company, that's part of a regiment.

A fire team of Cyclone riders are pretty out gunned against a group of Invid mecha (three or more). In fifteen seconds they could be wiped out while waiting for air/arty support. That said it would be SOP for UEEF infantrymen to try and take out the sensor eye as it would mean an insta kill, and no different then aiming for the head of an enemy soldier. It would also be SOP when initiating an ambush where the intent is to drop as many of them before they can get a shot off at you.

The Ares is the most rewritten part of the book, so I can't answer any questions on its final form really. However, you can keep range on a slug-thrower by altering the materials used in the barrel design as well as the design of the barrel itself. You can also change the firing mechanism, propellant and weight of the ammunition to affect range. It isn't just barrel length.

I am sure there are plenty of us who want to see your original version, and not the hacked up version we got in the book.

[Colonel Wolfe]

The Ares is the most rewritten part of the book, so I can't answer any questions on its final form really. However, you can keep range on a slug-thrower by altering the materials used in the barrel design as well as the design of the barrel itself. You can also change the firing mechanism, propellant and weight of the ammunition to affect range. It isn't just barrel length.

I am sure there are plenty of us who want to see your original version, and not the hacked up version we got in the book.

in this case I disagree.. and am Glad HG has made Palaldium enforce the no-stats policy. The Rules in the IMU section say Veritechs with alterations can't transform... and to have one that can as an example would be a bigger error.

[Colonel Wolfe]

note on the Widow-Maker... the Battiloid ART is the Wrong Mecha... look at the leg thruster on the transport mode.. they are rounded... the Legs on the battiloid are tri-angular and squared.. its not the same mecha. (this is the same error in the ASC book too...)

I think it is just artist error because if you really look the legs are correct in function and design just someone rounded the outboard thrusters. I think we have a bigger issue than that. The Myrmidon's legs are the reverse of the Spartas'? The Myrmidon would have two outboard thrusters near the rear in tank mode as seen in the art in battliod mode and they are not listed in location block but are listed in the power system section. Am I missing something here?

Look at the For-arms on the Myrmidon and then the Battiloid... they are very Different too. the Art for the Battiloid is based off a Pre-production Spartas design.
the Feet are different between Tank ans Battiloid... they Myrmidon has squared "toes" and the battiloid has rouned ones... the cuffs where the hands sit is flush wiht the gun housing on the tank mode and transport mode... but arent even on the Battiloid... the Legs are just comepleylt off. I hesistate to find and post images that are form the books, but looking it over, its the wrong Battiloid for the Myrmidon. yes its an Artist Error, he traced the wrong mecha for the battiloid.

here's a visual guide that might help us...
http://oi41.tinypic.com/6gieps.jpg

[dataweaver]

in this case I disagree.. and am Glad HG has made Palaldium enforce the no-stats policy. The Rules in the IMU section say Veritechs with alterations can't transform... and to have one that can as an example would be a bigger error.

Doesn't the hover cycle violate that rule? Ditto with the Widowmaker. Seems to be more of a rule of thumb than a hard-and-fast rule.

[Colonel Wolfe]

in this case I disagree.. and am Glad HG has made Palaldium enforce the no-stats policy. The Rules in the IMU section say Veritechs with alterations can't transform... and to have one that can as an example would be a bigger error.

Doesn't the hover cycle violate that rule? Ditto with the Widowmaker. Seems to be more of a rule of thumb than a hard-and-fast rule.

I should have been more specific... changing arms of Legs on them make changing impossible.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I learned not to question that art we get too closely a long time ago, for fear that we might get less art in general.

Can't get much less mecha art than we have now....

As for the Ares, I have no problems with the collective "The Engineer" being able to actually create the mecha in question, and honestly, I wouldn't even care if it could still transform,

While i disagree on the transformation, I have no problem with the design ebing made.. just with how much ammo it holds, the scale presented in the artwork.

maybe even with a limitation of being only two modes, say helicopter and battloid instead of having jet mode too.

The only diffrence between the "jet" and "helicopter" modes of the Ajax is the position of the "Blades"... which aren't even present on the Ares.

My issue is that the guns, shoulder sections, and ammunition bins aren't all that much different from a Defender, and they really, really should be.

the Ammo-binsare missing on the Ares. the links above show the Ammo bins on the Defenderare mounted next to the head of the Defender/Raider-X

The Ares should be single mounting these guns with space reserved more or less externally for ammunition, possibly to the exclusion of its typical hardpoints, or possible an obvious ammo bin around the reduced shoulder section with considerably less ammunition.

Ammo bings coule be mounted in a simmilar spot as on the Defender, possibly replacing the wing-attachment area. the unit has "reduced" ammo form the Defender... but only 300 rounds.

The barrels should have lost roughly a quarter to a third of their length, with a corresponding reduction in range. Even at half range, we are talking about 5 miles or armor piercing discarding sabot and 2 miles for air burst munitions.

The Over-all lenght of the Guns is about 1/3 reduced compareds to just moving the Raider-x guns over to a Ajax. and yes, even dropping the Range by 50% would make it out-gun the invid. Personally after viewing this... the 4D8x10 per shot = to hand to hand attacks... make me wonder my why they Gimped the Spartas Main gun to 2 attacks per round...

I wouldn't be against a reduction of this sort, as it still far out ranges all but the missiles of RCBs and Overlords. Otherwise we end up with a mecha that most people look at and go "Why didn't they eventually build something like this with a regular factory?!" (Seriously, two old timers form my previous games took one look at the Ares and wanted to know how it could have pretty much no downside compared to a Raider-X...their old school, forgive them their improper naming conventions please...)

Honestly Makes me wonder why the REF isn't dropping squads of Raider-X at Reflex point... they use SLMH, and can't be tracked by the invid.. have a 10 mile range... their Raking-fire attack would demolish swarms of invid before they could get in assault range...

[Tiree]

Thanks for the heads up DLDDC

Quick question: It states that most of the ASC mecha's engines were replaced with Protoculture ones. Where did they get them? Wouldn't it have been simpler to say that the ASC mecha could run off protoculture if they replaced the Hydrogen Fuel Cell system with Protoculture Cells?

[Colonel Wolfe]

Dead invid didn't appear to be that big a deal to the invid themselves...like bees and ants. As long as nothing vital was taken out, they ignored the losses.

That's not what the Regesis says in the show.. that each death of an her Invid harms the race as a whole. but Most of that Dialog gets ignored by "fans" who dislike the fact the Invid Queen and princess admits the REF forces in episode 85 out number the active Invid on Earth.

[Tiree]

Dead invid didn't appear to be that big a deal to the invid themselves...like bees and ants. As long as nothing vital was taken out, they ignored the losses.

That's not what the Regesis says in the show.. that each death of an her Invid harms the race as a whole. but Most of that Dialog gets ignored by "fans" who dislike the fact the Invid Queen and princess admits the REF forces in episode 85 out number the active Invid on Earth.

Don't forget this is just speculation, and not Official.

I kind of see it as a Brainstorming Session with DLDDC.

I understand that the ASC Mecha may or may not be operating during the New Generation timeline. They would have to be in service for about 10 years with patchwork repairs. The likelihood that any Combat Vehicle would survive 10 years of Combat without a retrofit at a facility is hard to believe.

With that said, why state that the ASC Mecha need to have their engines changed at all? Why not just make it a simple changing the Fuel Cell (IE Fuel) technology with Protoculture Cell (IE Fuel), and call it good. Basically making the ASC Flex Fuel vehicles for a better term.

By just doing this simple change, it also means that it is potential that UEEF Mecha could also use the SLMH for their vehicles. As the evidence that Rand and Rook found Protoculture Cells in Denver. A city that was abandoned before the Invid arrived!

But wait, there's more! The Invid know how to make P-Cell's! Is this for their own use, or are they making them specifically for Earthlings?!? My take is a more radical shift that the P-Cell Size and Configuration has been standardized well before the SDF-1 came to Earth. The Masters, Zentraedi, and Invid all use it. It would make sense that the UEEF would have their fleet be supplied by their enemies logistics. Heck Scott basically states that when they come to Earth, that was their plan (See Norristown Episode). So why couldn't it go the other way?

Just by changing the Fuel Cells - you don't have to worry about Engines! I mean you can shove a Formula 1 Race Car engine into a 1980 Honda Civic. You should see a performance increase. But why, when both engines are good. You just need to alter the engine to accept the higher end fuel.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Since protoculture was what the enemy was using and was producing it and passing it out to sympathizers (as we see with the norristown and New York warehouses which are specifically called protoculture storage facilities), then it made the most sense to let the enemy do the work and just steal it from them, even if it meant dropping in salvaged powerplants from a ikazuchi full of wrecked alphas or an old Zentraedi cruiser loaded with decayed fighters.

you imply here the Zentradie use the Protoculture Cells... just sema s unlikely that they used the exact same tech.

This also supports the likelihood that earth mecha running off "pure" protoculture was a relatively new development.

not really at all. The Alpha Fighter is not a new design, both the RPG and the Show show that it pre-dates the Masters attacking Earth (The Toy Shop Scott crashes into in Denver has Alpha models in it, and the VF-X-6 is being tested in 2014, 16 years before the Masters attack
.

You could speculate (and this is just speculation) that the transition started during the UEEF war against the Invid after the invasion tirol, and knowledge and the tactics came back with Major Carpenter, whose task force arrived during the second Robotech war. While the task force was mostly wiped out, Carpenter and other survivors would have brought that intel with them.

competly flawed Speculation since Carpenter went to Talk directly with Leonard in Episode 47 "Outsiders", but the Name Invid is completly unknown to him ion Episode 59, "The Invid connection"

Once the 10th got destroyed and their mecha and survivors filtered into the resistance, its not hard to see how the tactic got adopted, especially if there was a heavy reliance on UEEF techs to repair new and old mecha.

If Lunk and Lanmcer came with the 10th (we know Lancer did, lunk is not proven) then they have been on earth as long as the CP powered mecha by this speculation.. and should be just as aware of the tactic.

One gets the impression that a lot more men and material made it to the ground during the 10th's failed assault than during the one that brought Bernard to earth. Afterall, all that gear at Point K had to come from somewhere. Just that battlefield alone, given the Invid's lackadaisical view of cleanup duty after a battle, could have provided dozens of repairable protoculture engines. That's not to mention whatever Wolfe and whoever survived with him injected into the war effort as well.

Point K was set-up well before Hunter knew who invaded the Earth, Scott even says so. some of the Mecha at point K are Beta's meaning they are wrecks fomr th 21st fleet, not the 10th or eariler (being Lunk is unaware of what a Beta is) and its also called the place of a "Recent victory" by the invid...and Scott even says since the invid arrived on Earth... there have been nothing but invid to fight... meaning Invid activity in space started after the Invid Invasion of earth.

His baby was originally the hovertank,

Wolfe isn't a Hover-tank pilot... that is no where in Canon, He is shown in a Fighter, and in a Alpha whooping Invid but (Killing 8 invid in 33 seconds).

[Colonel Wolfe]

Don't forget this is just speculation, and not Official.

I'm well aware of the Speculative nature of the comments made above. but even speculation should be grounded in the most common source of information present, The 85 Episodes of Robotech the RPg is based off of.

[ShadowLogan]

If Lunk and Lanmcer came with the 10th (we know Lancer did, lunk is not proven) then they have been on earth as long as the CP powered mecha by this speculation.. and should be just as aware of the tactic.

Paper Hero, Lunk: ...it was during the Invid Invasion after we fought the Robotech Masters...

No way Lunk can be part of the 10th. He is either former ASC or from elements of the Pioneer Mission involved in the war with the Masters.

With that said, why state that the ASC Mecha need to have their engines changed at all? Why not just make it a simple changing the Fuel Cell (IE Fuel) technology with Protoculture Cell (IE Fuel), and call it good. Basically making the ASC Flex Fuel vehicles for a better term.

I think this would have been better than the replacing the engine as the text suggests. The engines may not be completely swappable as is without some additional work to make them fit.

Flex Fuel also allows them to be detected as stated in the core book. The reason being that SLMH is not available any more, and PC is the fuel of choice. Maybe a listing of bonuses and/or penalties based on what fuel is currently being used. Weather the NG mecha proper are flex-fuel I cann't say for sure (lean toward no given the dire straights TSC puts the REF in), but the TRM and TMS Earth units could be.

The GR-80 can be used as a modular weapon system similar to those of other cyclones with minor adjustments. It predates the newer models. It would be a simple fix for a mechanic.

The only reason I can see the GR-80 not being used over the GR-97 on the newer cyclone models is that the GR-80 somehow interferes with the operation of the cyclone. The GR-80 is a perfect fit for the Silverback's wheel mounts, so I can still see it being in use by 2044.

That is a problem with the GR-80/GR-97.

Maybe 1E was right about the use of Plasma mini-missiles needing a specialized launchers (in which case firepower would not drop off between the two if the GR-80 was not capable of firing plasma, but the GR-97 was limited to it)

[Chris0013]

If Lunk and Lanmcer came with the 10th (we know Lancer did, lunk is not proven) then they have been on earth as long as the CP powered mecha by this speculation.. and should be just as aware of the tactic.

Paper Hero, Lunk: ...it was during the Invid Invasion after we fought the Robotech Masters...

No way Lunk can be part of the 10th. He is either former ASC or from elements of the Pioneer Mission involved in the war with the Masters.

Could have come back with Carpenter....maybe Wolff.

[dataweaver]

Regardless, PttSC shows that the UEEF was aware of Invid Protoculture Sensors as far back as when Edwards' treachery was revealed and he had to bug out.

[Tiree]

What is the current time line of UEEF forces coming to back to Earth?

1. Pioneer (2029 according to RT.com) - During the Masters
2. Wolfe (2031) - Right after the defeat of the Masters, but before the Invid show up
3. 10th Mars Division (2038) - Shortly after the Invid arrive
4. 21st Mars Division (2042) - Scott arrives on scene

[rtsurfer]

IINM based on HG's current continuity Wolfe was on or near Earth when the Invid arrived in 2031. I don't believe Wolfe's arrival date is ever given although there is a reference to reinforcements from deep space in June 2030, in addition to a Pioneer Mission vessel arriving from deep space in Oct 2029.

[Tiree]

I think that reference is pioneer's survivors. Plus there were ships available for fleeing, they had to come somewhere. So the date I pulled comes right from there and with a hint from the Novels where Dana steals Wolfe's ship.

[rtsurfer]

In Love and War, and I suspect in RTLLA, the 15th has their own garfish and they are in communication with Wolfe as they depart Earth.

[Colonel Wolfe]

If Lunk and Lanmcer came with the 10th (we know Lancer did, lunk is not proven) then they have been on earth as long as the CP powered mecha by this speculation.. and should be just as aware of the tactic.

Paper Hero, Lunk: ...it was during the Invid Invasion after we fought the Robotech Masters...

No way Lunk can be part of the 10th. He is either former ASC or from elements of the Pioneer Mission involved in the war with the Masters.

I know this, but the Book says he came back with Lancer during the 10th Mars assault...
also doesn't he refer to him self as a Certified bio-maintenance engineer? I dont remember the exact quote...

[dataweaver]

IIRC, that quote is where the original Invid Invasion RPG book got the name for the "Bio-Maintenance Engineer" OCC; so yeah.

[tobefrnk]

I have a take on the Invid's use/manufacter of Protoculture cells. The recent RPGs have stated that the Masters traded with the Invid for Protoculture for a period before Zor created a successful matrix. It's possible that the cell was a pure Invid design (or joint design by Zor and the Invid) as a means of Protoculture storage and use.

[ShadowLogan]

If Lunk and Lanmcer came with the 10th (we know Lancer did, lunk is not proven) then they have been on earth as long as the CP powered mecha by this speculation.. and should be just as aware of the tactic.

Paper Hero, Lunk: ...it was during the Invid Invasion after we fought the Robotech Masters...

No way Lunk can be part of the 10th. He is either former ASC or from elements of the Pioneer Mission involved in the war with the Masters.

I know this, but the Book says he came back with Lancer during the 10th Mars assault...
also doesn't he refer to him self as a Certified bio-maintenance engineer? I dont remember the exact quote...

Yes he does in Ep3 refer to himself as a certified bio-maintenance engineer. Don't have the quote handy.

With regard to the 10th then that would be something they need to correct.

The RT.com infopedia (Epsidoe Guide) actually omits the part about the Robotech Masters in the dialogue quote (Character Bio does mention the Masters though). Also tellings is that that the dialogue line for the time frame the promise was made is different than in the show as it omits the "a year ago".

I don't have any of the re-mastered versions, did they change the lines at that time from the Legacy to be like that in the Infopedia?

[rtsurfer]

IINM HG had new date captions, different sound effects, and snippets of previously unused animation added to the protoculture/remastered, extended edition sets but left the dialogue alone. Any omission of details in the infopedia concerning Lunk's backstory was likely an attempt by the author(s) to reconcile the apparent discrepancy between his friend dying during the Invid Invasion after they fought the Masters and making him promise a year ago.

[ShadowLogan]

Thing is with the infopedia they misquote Lunk with regard to the promise.

"I want to make good on a promise I made to a friend [a year ago] to deliver this book for him," -Infopedia entry for "Paper Hero", the text in brakets was missed and not done in a format to suggest the quote missed something.

The second bit does have a pause in it that could be taken to indicate other material exits or Lunk paused in speaking so is not as much an issue as the misquote.

I was aware that the Remastered/PC editions had those changes, but I am unsure about any dialogue changes overall. I just finished reviewing the PC edition scene at Youtube, there isn't any dialogue changes there.

[rtsurfer]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone edited "a year ago" out of the episode description before it was uploaded to the infopedia lol

[Pariah77]

Just a quick question.

Why the change in the size of the book? The others (Shandow Chronicles, Macross and Masters Sourcebooks) were all manga-sized.

Sorry if this question was asked and answered elsewhere, but I couldn't find it.

[Pariah77]

Just a quick question.

Why the change in book size? All the others (Shadow Chronicles, Macross and Masters Sourcebooks) are manga-sized. Why make new New Generation a full-sized book?

[dataweaver]

Ok, I got my copy.

Urchin: my one quibble with this one is that the Urchin is 11-14 years old; but his or her PS is the same as older characters? I don't buy it, and will be applying a -2 PS reduction to any Urchins in my game. Not that Palladium RPG Attributes under 16 mean anything; but it's the principle of the matter. On the upside, I'm thinking of having a Fast Learner who ends up piloting a Beta.

Invid Experiment OCC: as I surmised from others' comments, this is becoming an RCC, with the skills stripped out and replaced by the player's choice of OCC. Given the stated tendency to pick on Earth-born humans, that means that it will most likely be combined with one of the preceding OCCs. Meanwhile, I'll adapt the skills section of the Invid Experiment to act as the basis for Robotech's equivalent of the Vagabond OCC, mainly for quick-gen NPCs.

For the time being, I'm going to reserve the Invid Prince/Princess OCC for NPC antagonists. OTOH, it should prove handy as a player OCC in Shadow Chronicles.

With the above in mind, I'm looking into a "children's crusade" storyline, featuring a group of Urchins (a couple of whom have been subjected to Invid Experimentation, and at least one of which is an alien half-breed) backed by other civilian-types who have taken up arms against the Invid.

[dataweaver]

I need some dates: in Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles, what year did the events of issues #1 (when Edwards' duplicity came to light and he fled for Optera) and #2 (when the UEEF brought the fight to Optera) happen? I'm asking because of the mecha depicted: in PttSC#1, we clearly see the UEEF Alphas mated with Betas; and in PttSC#2, we see a Silverback in the field. Yet the New Generation Sourcebook states that there weren't any Betas in the UEEF when the 10th Mars Division departed for Earth (they arrived in 2038), nor had the Silverbacks entered service when the 21st Mars Division departed (they arrived in 2042). I want to get a feel for whether the dates in PttSC make any sense in this context; if not, then I'm inclined to chalk up Lunk's and Lancer's unfamiliarity with the Beta to the "we need our veritechs elsewhere; you guys will have to get by with Condors and Conbats" explanation, and I'm inclined to call the "no Silverbacks until the last days of the war" line an error: they saw action on Earth at least as far back as the 21st Mars Division; but Bernard's team simply didn't encounter any on the road to Reflex Point, just like they didn't encounter any IMUs or ASC mecha.

If the dates do make sense, then no Betas until the 21st Division, and no Silverbacks until the final days of the war. (A shame, too; the Silverback is very nicely suited to the Kind of guerilla campaign that was being waged on Earth.)

EDIT: forget PttSC; the Shadow Chronicles core book says that the Silverback was introduced in 2034. Unless the travel time between Mars Division and Earth was more than eight years for Scott Bernard, or four years for Lancer, the Silverback would have been introduced before they left. Four years might just barely work, if Carpenter turned around and headed straight back the same year that the Pioneer Expedition reached Tirol; but eight years simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Unless they were purposely excluded from the 10th and 21st Mars Divisions, I see no reason why they wouldn't have been on Earth during the Invid occupation.

I still want those dates, though.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I don't think Prelude gives Dates.... but i dont have the comics infront of me.

[ShadowLogan]

@dataweaver
PttSC doesn't have any firm dates concerning current events (flashback in 2012) stamped that I saw. The only date I noticed while skimming was a "one year later", there is mention of both Mars Divisions (past) and Jupiter Division (future).

Now in NG#1 the SDF-3 is mentioned in dialogue as being present and Admiral Hunter's flagship IIRC. The use of Shadow Fighters would place the events of the mini-comic after NG#1 (Invid Invasion) but before NG#22 (Reflex Point), which works with the LR timeline currently in use (that is a ~2year gap)

[rtsurfer]

Unless Admiral Hunter was using another vessel as his flagship while the SDF-3 was undergoing the year refit. Something else that potentially confuses the issue is in Ghost Town the SDF-4 is issuing orders to Earth, not the SDF-3.

Something to possibly consider is when the infopedia says the Tokugowa was refit. The size chart identifies it as the original hull and AD 2043 refit. In that same chart the SDF-3 is identified as the original hull and AD 2044 refit.

[Chris0013]

No mention of exactly when Wolfe came back and no mention of Cyclones / Alphas / Condors from 2031 when the Invid Invaded until 2038 when the 10th Mars Div got hammered.

We see in Love and War that Dana and the 15th are wearing CVR-3....so are CVR-3, and early UEEF mecha brought to earth with Wolfe's ship/fleet....or on the Garfish ships that came to pull people off Earth??

Timeline could have had a sentence mentioning that these particular mecha were brought by Wolfe to augment the Earth's defenses so would be there from the beginning.

[dataweaver]

But were they there from the beginning, or did the resistance rely on ASC mecha from 2031-2038?