do mdc characters with supers stay mdc in an sdc based realm

[znbrtn]

according to the game itself, ALL mdc structures, weapons and creatures revert to sdc outside mdc environments. if you'd like to do otherwise, of course you can, but the game itself makes a universal change in those stats.

[Steeler49er]

As has been said by Everyone here, the answer is No!
I Hate that answer when it comes to tech, as that rule is Way beyond illogic and jumps right into being Chak Gratting Morbidlogical!
(I love inventing new words).

I agree with everyone here, the rules are Only there for "Fairness" and to tone down the games, but in the begining that was Not the case. In the begining there were No sdc or mdc environments, they simply didn't exist. If you had "MD" tech and brought it into the "SD" tech world of HU, TMNT, PFRPG, BtSN, Advanced Recon, or Ninjas & Superspies... It stayed MD tech. MD just ment really, Really, REALLY adavanced super tech (Generally only found in games like Robotech). Everyone else could, in given time, reach this level of tech given time (assuming they survive and grow).

Then Came RIFTS!!!
When it first came out rifts made it clear that Magic, Supernatural, and Psionics brought into, or native to the Rifts Earth Dimension (Here in to be refered to RED) were made or begin as MD level in power because of the massive amount of ambient magic and Supernatural energies that permiated the very air of RED... in the begining this ment that Damage dealing and taken was MD in level, but it ALSO ment that Ranges, Durations, saves, and other effects were Also buffed (see eairly Rifts GM's Screen and flavor text). That changed when the game became more about Killing things and doing Damage (Hulk SMASH!) than about good story telling or Creative use of powers... Thus the other stuff has been forgotten and magics/psionics that were non-damage dealing got seen as weak.

Everything need to change because of Rifts, but what to do? So THE REAL CHANGE HAPPEN with the coming out of Rifts Conversion Book One! Now it was felt that, just to be fair, creatures that had power (mutants, chi, super powers, tmnt dinosaurs...etc) needed to be put on par with the MD level of magic and psionics and Thus They Too were pumped up to the level of MD power due to the massive amount of ambient Extra Dimensional Energies!

But this was Also THE BEGINING OF THE DAMAGE TO PALLADIUM BOOKS REP!
For in that same book it was made, again thanks to that Evil commie load of gratting unreality called "fairness" (You Flakking Blit Carl Marx), all of a sudden advanced Sdc Tech brought into Rifts and other "MDC Worlds" was made into MDC tech and visa versa with MD tech that enters "SDC Worlds" becoming Sdc as well...

Now the very games system that was made to allow for Endless conversions from one game to another (PB games only... But of course ) was Flakked by the very game book that had been made to Do the converting... And ALL due to that (as one of my role players called it) swear word known as "Fairness".


NOW WHAT THIS MEANS is that Creatures whos' powers are "Enhanced" by the ambient Extra Dimensional Energies found on world and dimensions like those found in RED then Loose those powers when they go into sdc worlds/dimensions like HU, TMNT, Nightspawn, And Systems Shock. BUT this was Also the begining of the confusion since it sent the message that each of PB's game system Must be running off of differant rules. This was compounded by the fact that if you looked at their worlds/realities respective histories you'd find them differant, even though they'd have similar presents. This implies that the "Butterfly-Effect" was not in effect.

This confusion has only increased with each and every passing year and when combined with ever increasing amount of "Damage Creep" and "Ret-Con", has turned Countless masses away from PB so...

My suggestion, throw out all Flakking Grat and use Comon sence and your Own mad gming skills... "GM Over Ride". Or
As the ever beloved "Zechs Marquise" from Gundamwing put it, it's not your job to fix my mech so that it works better, that is the Pilots job!
Just replace pilot with GM and you're good to go.


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"You know Rick, palladium has made Fairness into a swear word!"
Quote-Eric E.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Are invincible guardsman and some gun brothers considered supers by transformation and what races will they work on? Such as sea titans , true atlanteans , temporal raiders etc....

There is no MDC in SDC realms.
Invincible Guardsmen use the HU powers bonuses to their base SDC/HP that they were before they were MDC.
This is not a difficult conversion to do if you have already done the number crunching when you make the char.
G.Brothers If I remember right they are bio-borgs, if so there is not canon conversion to SDC. They would probably end up with a Nat. AR about 10.
ST's would get a SDC bonus to their pre-MDC SDC/HP.
TAs stay exactly the same unless they are a type of Tattoo-Man, in which there is no canon conversion of their MDC to a SDC bonus.
TR's probably follow the 1 MDC to 1 SDC conversion, giving them their PE in HP.

A couple classes that can be used as guidelines for switching between MDC and SDC worlds can be found in the RCB2, Godlings and DemiGods

[znbrtn]

it goes both ways, so that borg would more than likely be MDC after travelling to phase world. well, the borg parts, at least.

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is MDC in several SDC realms, HU2 has quite a few references to it still lurking around.

It is just commonly removed/converted/ignored, doesn't mean you CAN'T have it.

Robotech being the best example, as it is an SDC realm with MDC tech.

Robotech is a MDC realm, thus beings that are MDC would be MDC there.

SDC realms/worlds are worlds that MDC does not exist.

[Iczer]

It's more than the presence of magic or it's absence. It's a fundamental physics notation. Some 'advanced' alloys are simply not possible in SDC worlds, and when you bring them through, the laws of physics don't allow them.

I bring my MDC tank (from..i don't know..let's say rifts) into N&SS. The laws of physics in N&SS prevent the Tank from being MDC (Advanced yes, but not MDC level)

The megaverse builder guide touches on this a little, and I recommend it as a resource. your questions get addressed properly on page 68, but there are other, 'gems' along the way.

Batts

[drewkitty ~..~]

Robotech has little to not magic, if anything it should be better categories.

"Naturally MDC realm", Rifts, Splicers, PW.

"Technologically advanced MDC structures in SDC realm", Robotech,

"SDC realm", PFRPG, HU2 BtS, etc.

One could just as easily argue that any "indestructible" item in HU2 or PFRPG is simply an MDC item there.

HU is an SDC realm.

Yes it could be argued that ny "indestructible" item in HU2 or PFRPG is simply an MDC item, but that would just be an argument, not a canon reference.

[Iczer]

HU has always had references to MDC weaponry, and several cases with MDC structures, it is not the same sort of pure SDC realm as BTS or PFRPG.


As for the "some alloys are not possible in SDC realms", I am glad I don't have that book now, as it's not an argument which exists in my games currently.

Hang on a minute. what references?

Batts

[The Beast]

My first group actually did this by accident when we crossed over our HU PCs to Rifts for awhile, then brought them back. My PC needed body armor because he was a low MDC being, and nearly got killed the first time in a fight. My character sheet needed to be renewed right before we crossed back, and I had accidently left the armor he had on the new sheet. About a dozen games went by until he was hit again and then we realized he still had the armor. We ended up ruling that it stayed as MDC armor, but magic and attacks that were powerful enough would still damage it as if it were SDC armor.

[Agent_gir]

Read the weapons sections, there are various things in there depending on which issue you have, HUR had multiple weapons like howitzers, grenades, and mortars listed as 1d4x100 s.d.c. (1d4 m.d.c.).

HU2, early editions at least, still has the incendiary grenade listed as doing uh, 2d6x10 s.d.c. (1 m.d.c.), plus the supersoldier in PU2 lists M.D.C. stats for the endoskeleton, as well as a few other random bits.

true but those references are, in the first case, cuz palladium loves cut and past. and in the second case to make the source book a megaversally usefully source book. I wouldn't suggest that HU is in any way an MDC world

[drewkitty ~..~]

HU has always had references to MDC weaponry, and several cases with MDC structures, it is not the same sort of pure SDC realm as BTS or PFRPG.


As for the "some alloys are not possible in SDC realms", I am glad I don't have that book now, as it's not an argument which exists in my games currently.

The first references to MDC/MD in HU books started with Aliens unlimited and then it was listed in the books as the Rifts Conversions of said alien or special weapon.
Even the HU2 books only list MDC/MD in reference to Rifts conversions.

[Steeler49er]

As stated over and over again, just Let your players use MDC in HU. The word Game balance means Nothing in RPG's other than that the GM who uses that word is an illogical Wuss. If you want to argue "Fairness" and "Game Balance" in the world as being a real force in reality than, you're high. In The Real world (which sci-fi and yes, even some fictions draw their basis from) fairness is an invention of the mind and simply Can't be found anywhere. So "Game Balance" being just another word for "Let your players win by making it easy" just shouldn't ever play.
We as GM's are 'Supposed to' give our players a challange while Not trying to out right be unkind and kill them, BUT that last part does Not mean that they shouldn't be faced with the possibility of death or forces with which they can't beat with OUT-RIGHT FORCE...

MDC tech in an "SDC world" is a Great example of when Not to try and "just Punch the villian to death"! Super Heroes having to fight up against advanced levels of tech (like a Glitter Boy) is a comon staple of super hero comics and fiction, so DON'T make that Super advance invulnerable and god-like Future Tech into pathetic AR18 & 700 sdc tinfoil that a kid with a 1D1 beebee gun could eventually take down by Just rolling over the dang things AR.
This is when players of heroes and super heroes just need to start using their brains more AND in the EXACT SAME WAY YOU'D FIGHT A SUPER WITH INVULNERABILITY!

It means Little if anything to to say that MDC is too powerful after I have Just brought up invulnerability... After all, MDC is no where near That level of hardness. MDC can be beaten by 100's of powers and 1'000 of tricks, far easier than many super villians can.

Besides, how can a game system cry Fairness and game balance when they've just put out that New Phase World book where they describe the Dominators as having Tech that "Just simply Kills you"! No saves no nothin, you just die IF you get hit by it!
Well, that Is reality and it causes you to have to find alternatives and other solutions, an MDC ain't even all that so, why Not allow it???


Trust me, it's better than the alternative where you now have to acknowledge that the MDC of Robotech armor, weapons, and tech is Actually MAGIC! Cuz 20 ton Mecha legs made up of an AR 18 and 300 sdc would simple Crumple under that weight with every couple of steps... Plus it just sound Stupid saying that you could eventually detroy it with enough shots from an Uzi or MAC-10.

[Saitou Hajime]

it goes both ways, so that borg would more than likely be MDC after travelling to phase world. well, the borg parts, at least.

Uh no actaully he has to be upgrade to MDC parts, moving MDC Tech to SDC world isn't recomended, the RIFTS convertion book was ment to go the one way into Rifts. However several mystical races and itesm can shift back with a logical answer. the Tech doesn't reall work but if it remains it totally unfair and little if anything can hurt/stop it.

[Steeler49er]

Good thing about MDC in HU is that, That pathetically usless major s-power known as "Super Power Punch" finally has a use after all. IT allows you to overcome MDC's 100sdc AR, and allowing you to actually slowly damage MDC tech. You'll still be one pointing it to death but, if you've ever played and games you'd know that the typical End Boss or random critter often shruggs off much of the damage from you attacks anywho.

When dealing with MDC in HU you'll simply have to be "smarter than that"!

[Armorlord]

It comes down to what the dimension supports. Does it support MDC, or does it only support SDC?
If it is a MDC dimension, then MDC science is possible, and all Super Powers, Supernatural Abilities and Creatures, and Magic and Creatures of Magic are Mega-Damage. Also, as Saitou Hajime noted, tech transfer, even assuming the sharing dimensions support the same Energy Matrix needed to function at all, is generally unfavorable. Locally developed SD high-tech items tend to out-perform imported formerly-MD systems, and SDC tech moved to an MDC dimension is still just as squishy, while in the reverse MDC materials cannot maintain the high-energy bonds that are impossible, becoming far more brittle as their composite materials and alloys lose internal cohesion.

[Sir_Spirit]

Rather than argue a change in physics I'd jsut say that magic is so central to reality that unless the magic of a realm supports MDC physics then MDC items will act in all mways asa an SDC item.

[drewkitty ~..~]

corrected
"Palladium Fantasy example of MD is the Black Sword of Styphon from Dragons and Gods, which will inflict 1d6x100 damage direct to hit points (or 1d6x100 MD) per strike."

[TechnoGothic]

As has been said by Everyone here, the answer is No!
I Hate that answer when it comes to tech, as that rule is Way beyond illogic and jumps right into being Chak Gratting Morbidlogical!
(I love inventing new words).

I agree with everyone here, the rules are Only there for "Fairness" and to tone down the games, but in the begining that was Not the case. In the begining there were No sdc or mdc environments, they simply didn't exist. If you had "MD" tech and brought it into the "SD" tech world of HU, TMNT, PFRPG, BtSN, Advanced Recon, or Ninjas & Superspies... It stayed MD tech. MD just ment really, Really, REALLY adavanced super tech (Generally only found in games like Robotech). Everyone else could, in given time, reach this level of tech given time (assuming they survive and grow).

Then Came RIFTS!!!
When it first came out rifts made it clear that Magic, Supernatural, and Psionics brought into, or native to the Rifts Earth Dimension (Here in to be refered to RED) were made or begin as MD level in power because of the massive amount of ambient magic and Supernatural energies that permiated the very air of RED... in the begining this ment that Damage dealing and taken was MD in level, but it ALSO ment that Ranges, Durations, saves, and other effects were Also buffed (see eairly Rifts GM's Screen and flavor text). That changed when the game became more about Killing things and doing Damage (Hulk SMASH!) than about good story telling or Creative use of powers... Thus the other stuff has been forgotten and magics/psionics that were non-damage dealing got seen as weak.

Everything need to change because of Rifts, but what to do? So THE REAL CHANGE HAPPEN with the coming out of Rifts Conversion Book One! Now it was felt that, just to be fair, creatures that had power (mutants, chi, super powers, tmnt dinosaurs...etc) needed to be put on par with the MD level of magic and psionics and Thus They Too were pumped up to the level of MD power due to the massive amount of ambient Extra Dimensional Energies!

But this was Also THE BEGINING OF THE DAMAGE TO PALLADIUM BOOKS REP!
For in that same book it was made, again thanks to that Evil commie load of gratting unreality called "fairness" (You Flakking Blit Carl Marx), all of a sudden advanced Sdc Tech brought into Rifts and other "MDC Worlds" was made into MDC tech and visa versa with MD tech that enters "SDC Worlds" becoming Sdc as well...

Now the very games system that was made to allow for Endless conversions from one game to another (PB games only... But of course ) was Flakked by the very game book that had been made to Do the converting... And ALL due to that (as one of my role players called it) swear word known as "Fairness".


NOW WHAT THIS MEANS is that Creatures whos' powers are "Enhanced" by the ambient Extra Dimensional Energies found on world and dimensions like those found in RED then Loose those powers when they go into sdc worlds/dimensions like HU, TMNT, Nightspawn, And Systems Shock. BUT this was Also the begining of the confusion since it sent the message that each of PB's game system Must be running off of differant rules. This was compounded by the fact that if you looked at their worlds/realities respective histories you'd find them differant, even though they'd have similar presents. This implies that the "Butterfly-Effect" was not in effect.

This confusion has only increased with each and every passing year and when combined with ever increasing amount of "Damage Creep" and "Ret-Con", has turned Countless masses away from PB so...

My suggestion, throw out all Flakking Grat and use Comon sence and your Own mad gming skills... "GM Over Ride". Or
As the ever beloved "Zechs Marquise" from Gundamwing put it, it's not your job to fix my mech so that it works better, that is the Pilots job!
Just replace pilot with GM and you're good to go.


___________________________________________________________________
"You know Rick, palladium has made Fairness into a swear word!"
Quote-Eric E.

My UNrevised CB1 has HU2 Bionics, Robotics, and most Supers staying SDC.
HU2 Tech characters must replace their SDC Tech with MDC Tech if they wish to survive.

[TechnoGothic]

Read the weapons sections, there are various things in there depending on which issue you have, HUR had multiple weapons like howitzers, grenades, and mortars listed as 1d4x100 s.d.c. (1d4 m.d.c.).

HU2, early editions at least, still has the incendiary grenade listed as doing uh, 2d6x10 s.d.c. (1 m.d.c.), plus the supersoldier in PU2 lists M.D.C. stats for the endoskeleton, as well as a few other random bits.

Those are quick Conversion Notes in case you use them in Rifts.
You know that.

[Ice Dragon]

[url]Are invinceable guardsman and some gun brothers considered supers by transformation and what races will they work on? Such as sea titans , true atlanteans , temporal raiders etc....[/url]

No.

They have a change to SDC & HP and also A.R.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Then you can blame PB for being lazy in their editing.

and So What if they list the MD the weapon does vs MDC. It only means that when the char gets to rifts or another MDC realm, they already MD weapons and won't die right off the bat because they don't have MD weapons.

When used vs SDC or SDC/HP targets they still only do normal damage to those targets.