Is Rifts earth truly a post-apocalyptic world?

[The Baron of chaos]

I happened to think about this.
Rifts Earth often had been presented as post-apocalyptic world, but seem to me that this could be ture only for Chaos Earth.
Rifts Earth is more a post-post-apocalyptic world. in my opinion.
Sure there are lot of nasty things going aorudn and compared to our world is crazy become reality. BUT
Had been so for long time so far.
I think that saying Rifts Earth is post-apocalyptic is like saying that renaissance(a period that, apart arts and scinetific discovery, was also marred by any sort of nasty thing you could name of, like the classic war/famine/pestilence trifecta) is post-fall of rome world.
What do you think?

[Hystrix]

It's been stated in the past that Rifts is a post-post apocolyptic world (like you said). And your right. Rifts is still a struggling world, but its a far cry from the dark ages (the 200 or so years after the Great Cataclysm).

However, I think it depends on where you travel on Rifts Earth. Sure the Chi-Town Burbs seem like a vast (relitivly) civilized area. However, when your characters goes into the Canadian Wilderness, New West, Russian stepps, African plains, or friggin' Austrailia, the world dosn't seem so non-post apocolyptic...

[Dustin Fireblade]

Yep like Hystrix said there are still places out there that make it look like the armaggedon happened last week, or even still happening if you happen to be in a real bad spot.

I'm really hoping the Minion Wars pretty much destroy just about everything so the setting could be reset, but that's likely wishful thinking on my part.

[Misfit KotLD]

Rifts is probably Carolingian Renissance, a surge, but still a long way to go before it's really over the world being destroyed.

[The Baron of chaos]

Yep like Hystrix said there are still places out there that make it look like the armaggedon happened last week, or even still happening if you happen to be in a real bad spot.

I'm really hoping the Minion Wars pretty much destroy just about everything so the setting could be reset, but that's likely wishful thinking on my part.

I too am hoping for some real shake up of the status quo on Rifts Earth. Not a total reset but a good shake up.

I hope so as well, god know if Rifts Earth need a little shake. I'm only disappointed that the Rifts Cahpter will cover only The Calgary Rifts and its demon kingdom. I would hav eliked some info about France too. After reading about blood spells in Dimensional outbreak I got the feeling France is like Silent hill and Black Sabbath concert all wrapped together.

Rifts is probably Carolingian Renissance, a surge, but still a long way to go before it's really over the world being destroyed.

Hmm yes, could be, but keep in mind that Renaissance was not so widespread as many think. sure there were kickass cities, like Florence or Rome, but also place where people lived in a situation that bordered Stone Age. But I think your view could be fitting well Rifts Earth(even chronologically).

However, I think it depends on where you travel on Rifts Earth. Sure the Chi-Town Burbs seem like a vast (relitivly) civilized area. However, when your characters goes into the Canadian Wilderness, New West, Russian stepps, African plains, or friggin' Austrailia, the world dosn't seem so non-post apocolyptic...

To say the turth those place never was and had never been exactly the most calm and civilized place. Hell is like is ALWAYS post-apocalypse in those place!!(or so they seem for the most part)

[Hystrix]

To say the turth those place never was and had never been exactly the most calm and civilized place. Hell is like is ALWAYS post-apocalypse in those place!!(or so they seem for the most part)

Really? Even in California? True some of those places are already pretty much wilderness...

I agree with everyone on that fact that the Minion Wars should "shake up" some things...hopefully.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

Rifts is whatever you want it to be. that's why it's so much fun to play.

[DhAkael]

Don't care.
been running the system for well on 18 years now. It's whatever the GM wants it to be.
Moving on...

[Hystrix]

I happened to think about this.
Rifts Earth often had been presented as post-apocalyptic world, but seem to me that this could be ture only for Chaos Earth.
Rifts Earth is more a post-post-apocalyptic world. in my opinion.
Sure there are lot of nasty things going aorudn and compared to our world is crazy become reality. BUT
Had been so for long time so far.
I think that saying Rifts Earth is post-apocalyptic is like saying that renaissance(a period that, apart arts and scinetific discovery, was also marred by any sort of nasty thing you could name of, like the classic war/famine/pestilence trifecta) is post-fall of rome world.
What do you think?

I think Rifts earth is no where near the "Post" apocalyptical setting it once was with each new book there springs forth yet another civilization of some type with hundreds of thousands to millions of beings.

I think 30-40 million beings in North America is entirly too many for any post apocalyptical world.

Atlantis alone has 94 million over how many years ago ?

Rifts is not a post apocolyptical world anymore in my opinion.

And I for one totally understand this stance. You'd think life would be more scarce and that kindoms of millions would be almost unhead of...but that's not how it's written.

However, 30-40 million is alot less then you might thing, and the 94+ million in Atlantis were basically brought there from another dimension.

[The Baron of chaos]

Rifts is whatever you want it to be. that's why it's so much fun to play.

Don't care.
..... It's whatever the GM wants it to be.
Moving on...

Yes , both you are right , but just curious to see what opinionj of other people are. Also even if we limit to the original RMB, Rifts Earth is not as Post Apocalyptic as one could think. There are mega cities, magic or tech based, industries that produce high tech goods(mostly weapons), a working economy of sort. Sure there is lot of wilderness and humankind is not at the top as it was, still nothing give such desperate feeling, you got in setting like Splicer or Chaos Earth.

Oh talking about place that look like post-apocalyptic even in our today world
Prypiat
San-Zhi pod village
Craco
Yashima
Centralia,the real Silent Hill!!!
Gunkajima
Bodie,who said California is not creepy
Katoli World in Rifts Earth this place would be hell on earth!!!

[Hystrix]

Rifts is whatever you want it to be. that's why it's so much fun to play.

Don't care.
..... It's whatever the GM wants it to be.
Moving on...

Yes , both you are right , but just curious to see what opinionj of other people are. Also even if we limit to the original RMB, Rifts Earth is not as Post Apocalyptic as one could think. There are mega cities, magic or tech based, industries that produce high tech goods(mostly weapons), a working economy of sort. Sure there is lot of wilderness and humankind is not at the top as it was, still nothing give such desperate feeling, you got in setting like Splicer or Chaos Earth.

Oh talking about place that look like post-apocalyptic even in our today world
Prypiat
San-Zhi pod village
Craco
Yashima
Centralia,the real Silent Hill!!!
Gunkajima
Bodie,who said California is not creepy
Katoli World in Rifts Earth this place would be hell on earth!!!

That's actually pretty cool stuff, man. I still think there are alot of places like that one Rifts Earth. WB26 Dinosaur Swamp deals with some ofg that stuff (like the remains of Disney World)...

[johnkretzer]

I have to say I really never saw Rifts as a post-apocalyptic world. There were just too many things about it that did not seem to me to fit that gener if you would. I always viewed it as more of a Dark Ages after the post-apocalyptic event type world.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Rifts back when the Rifts Main book was all that was out was truely a post-apocalyptic world. it wasn't until every blank space in the map got filled that it stopped being so.

[Shades of Eternity]

I like to use the term post-post apocalyptic.

the apocalypse happened, but things got better.

it still isn't out of the woods yet, but it's certainly more stable then during the coming of the rifts.

[Armorlord]

I also tend to refer to Rifts as 'post-post-apocalyptic', just starting to move forward again and but still terribly fragile in most places. Most places where there is now a 'kingdom' have been around less than a generation with a few more stable exceptions, even the mighty Coalition States is only really into its second generation since forming up, with a third up coming.
Head out from those bastions of 'civilization' and it becomes increasingly difficult to tell the difference between now and a hundred years ago, however.

[TechnoGothic]

BAck in the Dark Ages of Europe before the Black Plague. Europe's Population was HUGE. After the Black Plague they lost 2/3 of their Population. Not sure on the exact numbers. But it was several hundred Million left alive.

RIFTS Dark Ages Killed what 75% to 90% of the World Population ?
Say Earth had around 10 Billion in 2098. That still leaves at least 1 Billion humans. Thats a Huge hit. India, China would most likely still have the most people. If America (USA/Canada/Mexico) has say had 800 Million Total at 2098. That would leave what ... 80 Million in North America. That sound like alot. But it isn't once you scatter them around the NA parts. We dont know if the Poplation of Humans have really risen or not.

The RIFTS DARK AGES was the Post-Apoc World. The PA-era is the Recovery Era. Rifts Main Book even say that more or less.
As for the 100+ PA era it might be even a new Era for Rifts. The Reclaiming Era. The Recovery is Over. The Tech Cities are beyond recovery, now they are reclaiming the lands.

Hope that makes sense you guys.

[Misfit KotLD]

Hmm yes, could be, but keep in mind that Renaissance was not so widespread as many think. sure there were kickass cities, like Florence or Rome, but also place where people lived in a situation that bordered Stone Age. But I think your view could be fitting well Rifts Earth(even chronologically).

But what does that have to do with the Carolingian Reniassance?

[The Baron of chaos]

Hmm yes, could be, but keep in mind that Renaissance was not so widespread as many think. sure there were kickass cities, like Florence or Rome, but also place where people lived in a situation that bordered Stone Age. But I think your view could be fitting well Rifts Earth(even chronologically).

But what does that have to do with the Carolingian Reniassance?

Well while technically Carolingian Renaissance was for the great part a intellectual renaissance, yet still important on many other aspects. And marked an attempt to come out fomr dark ages. it was still violent period, yes, but there were risings of impirtant cities and new empires. So ehre the comparison to Rifts(plus there is the overlooked aspect on how changed is things like art, literature, Architectures and Phylosophy in this crazy world. Well Coalition Phylosophy is known, but considering their opinion on written text, probably visual arts and architecture are pumped on the max, plus people like Prosek just ******* love building GIANT sculpture of themselves, I won't be surprised there are COLOSSAL Prosek Marble Bust in the weirdest places!)

[Supergyro]

There is enough diversity for Rifts to take on many different flavors of science fiction.

However, the books have tended to focus on the actions and capabilities of nation-sized powers. Triax, The Coalition, Atlantis, Shemmarian Nation, etc. The enthusiasm is reflected on the message boards for the large amount of debate on 'who would go to war with whom'. Larger scale things tend to shift the game's worldview towards more of an 'alternate Earth Future' since these nations tend to have large manufacturing prowess, field sizable armies, and go to war with each other.

These two visions are at odds. Post-apocalyptic sci-fi is intimate, small scale, with the big nasties maybe controlling a city or two and even doing that with less than 100% control. The best examples have people turning on one another due to the sheer scarcity of resources. Scarcity is a defining characteristic.

Alternate earth military history is large scale, giant nations fielding huge armies, the villains control large portions of continents and there is enough material to go around to build hundreds or thousands of high-tech war machines. Abundance (at least abundance of materials to make was machines/weapons) is a defining characteristic.

The prime tension between the two visions from a plotting angle is that your standard post-apocalyptic villain would be eliminated by a single well-timed airstrike, but the presence of powers able to perform such an airstrike makes the villain much less compelling. Sure, the 'Baron of Topeka' may be a maniac who controls the town through fear of his three scavanged robot combat drones..... but he can only go so far until he either has to suck up to the CS, or gets wiped out by a SAMAS squad.

I agree, at present Rifts books aren't aiming things towards a post-apocalyptic worldview.

[Misfit KotLD]

Hmm yes, could be, but keep in mind that Renaissance was not so widespread as many think. sure there were kickass cities, like Florence or Rome, but also place where people lived in a situation that bordered Stone Age. But I think your view could be fitting well Rifts Earth(even chronologically).

But what does that have to do with the Carolingian Reniassance?

Well while technically Carolingian Renaissance was for the great part a intellectual renaissance, yet still important on many other aspects. And marked an attempt to come out fomr dark ages. it was still violent period, yes, but there were risings of impirtant cities and new empires. So ehre the comparison to Rifts(plus there is the overlooked aspect on how changed is things like art, literature, Architectures and Phylosophy in this crazy world. Well Coalition Phylosophy is known, but considering their opinion on written text, probably visual arts and architecture are pumped on the max, plus people like Prosek just ******* love building GIANT sculpture of themselves, I won't be surprised there are COLOSSAL Prosek Marble Bust in the weirdest places!)

This does nothing to answer my question about the apparent answer referencing the Renissance rather than the Carolingian one.

My point is that the current stage is similar to the Carolingian Renissance in that both were foundations upon which later gains were made. It could lead directly into more widespread safety and profitibality, but as it stands, the various factions are building up enough that should they fall, something is salvagable for future growth.