Armor spells near Ley Lines and Nexus's

[Lenwen]

What are your thoughts conserning "Armor" spells when on or near a Ley Line / Nexus ?

Do you think the "Armor" should be upped as per everything else (Duration, Range, Damage) of spells when near the mystically powerful lines ?

Or do you think they (Armor per lvl) should not be upped when near Ley Lines and Nexus points ?

It is canon that magic is effected on or near a Ley Line by 50% onto its Range, Duration and Damage.

It is canon that magic is effected on or near a Nexus, by doubling its Range, Duration and Damage.

What say you about the "Armor" spells ?

[runebeo]

I say no since their too many ways to abuse extra M.D.C.s with Talisman of Armor & Monster Shaping Tattoos, Magic Tattoo armor, armor spells and then it would lead to people saying their TW-armor gains it too. While it may close the gape between tech and magic it also would work for players and Npcs leading to endless boss battles, much like how theres a physical psionic power in Rifter 25 that reduced energy damage by half, while very useful but if allowed it open a flood gates for dragons, demon, devil, A.I.s, gods, etc... for anyone creature that could choose a physical psionic power or automatically has them all like Raksasha to absorb tons of extra damage which would be totally unbalancing and just make boss battles extra boring.

[Anthar]

You could look at "damage" as including the damage absorbing capacity of defensive spells as well and I don't see why not. A fifth level mage would see their Armor of Ithan go from 50 MDC to 75 near a ley line and up to 100 at a nexus not that over powering really

[Balabanto]

The problem is that armor spells are already super-tough. It is that simple. Mages don't need a boost that badly, except in terms of range.

[DtMK]

I say yes, all the other spells get a boost so why not armor spells? This is why ley lines and nexi are so coveted by mages in the first place!

[Lenwen]

Great question. All these years I've actually been increasing the armor spells at ley lines and nexus points. I wanted an additional reason for mages to be feared a bit more at these places. I honestly thought that's the way it was intended to be.

This is how I've always played it and how it was introduced to me, yet last night going over some stuff my daughter asked me if thats how it was, so I decided to see what the prevailing opinion was on here .. from the posters.

And it looks almost like a 50/50 so far .. as of this post, with out my vote .. or any of the Freelancers of Palladium casting their votes or letting known their opinions on this.

[TechnoGothic]

OFFICALLY
ALL SPELLS are INCREASED by 50% near LeyLines and Double at NEXUS Points.

That Included Armor Spells as Well as all other Spells. That is OFFICAL. Nuff Said. There is no agruement. It happens.
That is Why Wizards love LeyLines and Nexus Points so much. Their power is increased by 50% or 100%.

Why would Fire Bolt increase but not Armor of Ithan ??

Tattoo Magic get even more powerful too. Tattoo Invulnerability (75 MDC per level) becomes much more powerful. At a Nexus it becomes 150 MDC per level. Yes that is alot. But these guys are not wimps. Give any Wizard just that tattoo and your alot more powerful for getting it. I would get it if i could.

[Mack]

If someone could provide an RUE reference (including a page number) this would be a bit easier. Thus far I haven't found anything in RUE, but I probably overlooked it.

Without an RUE reference, Ley Lines and Nexus don't have an effect.

[TechnoGothic]

RIFTS
Ley Lines and Magic
Ley lines have the following effects on men of magic.
Close proximity to a ley line. Being near a ley line, within two miles (3.2 km), increases the range and duration of spells by 50%.
Being at/on a ley line or one mile from a nexus point doubles the range, duration, and damage of magic spells. The mage can also draw an additional 10 P.P.E. per level of experience (second level mystic 20 points, third level mystic 30 P.P.E., etc.) every 12 hours. Plus his own P.P.E. recovers at the increased rate of 10 P.P.E. per half-hour, without meditation!
Being at a ley line nexus point or within 200 feet (61 m) of a nexus point triples the range, duration, and damage of magic incantations. The mage also enjoys a bonus of + 2 to save vs magic and horror factor. His personal spell strength is also increased by + 1. The mage can draw an additional 30 P.P.E. per level of experience every 6 hours. Plus his own P.P.E. recovers at the incredible rate of 20 points per half-hour!!

NOTE This is From RIFTS MAINBOOK, not RUE.
RUE seems to had forgot this entire section instead printing crap about RIFTS Opening and Closing, etc... Forgeting the Most Important aspect of Magic for PLAYERS and Setting in general.

Above is WHY TOLKEEN was so Powerful against the CS.

[TechnoGothic]

If someone could provide an RUE reference (including a page number) this would be a bit easier. Thus far I haven't found anything in RUE, but I probably overlooked it.

Without an RUE reference, Ley Lines and Nexus don't have an effect.

NO.
That just mean it was Left off on accident like several other things.
Juicer PP Bonus as an example.

Until Now we all just did not notice this missing is all.
Copy/Paste from RIFTS Mainbook. Your Done.

Why take Magic's number one reason for being important away after we had so many books using it.

[Mack]

If someone could provide an RUE reference (including a page number) this would be a bit easier. Thus far I haven't found anything in RUE, but I probably overlooked it.

Without an RUE reference, Ley Lines and Nexus don't have an effect.

NO.
That just mean it was Left off on accident like several other things.
Juicer PP Bonus as an example.

Until Now we all just did not notice this missing is all.
Copy/Paste from RIFTS Mainbook. Your Done.

Why take Magic's number one reason for being important away after we had so many books using it.

And "NO" right back to you, since I found the reference in the RUE errata.

In the world of Rifts Earth the ley line energy is at an all-time high and offers a seemingly endless source of mystic power for the taking. Practitioners of magic, supernatural creatures, and demons can stand on or near a ley line and freely feed on its energy to cast magic as well as enhance their magic. (Increase the range and duration of a spell by 50% when on or within 2 miles/3.2 km of a ley line.)

Range and duration are increased, but nothing else.

Now that we have the actual facts (which were lacking) a discussion can be had on them (which was this topic's intent). So to answer Lenwen's original question, Ley Lines should not affect the MDC of protection spells, just as they don't affect the damage of attack spells.

[Hystrix]

If someone could provide an RUE reference (including a page number) this would be a bit easier. Thus far I haven't found anything in RUE, but I probably overlooked it.

Without an RUE reference, Ley Lines and Nexus don't have an effect.

NO.
That just mean it was Left off on accident like several other things.
Juicer PP Bonus as an example.

Until Now we all just did not notice this missing is all.
Copy/Paste from RIFTS Mainbook. Your Done.

Why take Magic's number one reason for being important away after we had so many books using it.

And "NO" right back to you, since I found the reference in the RUE errata.

In the world of Rifts Earth the ley line energy is at an all-time high and offers a seemingly endless source of mystic power for the taking. Practitioners of magic, supernatural creatures, and demons can stand on or near a ley line and freely feed on its energy to cast magic as well as enhance their magic. (Increase the range and duration of a spell by 50% when on or within 2 miles/3.2 km of a ley line.)

Range and duration are increased, but nothing else.

Now that we have the actual facts (which were lacking) a discussion can be had on them (which was this topic's intent). So to answer Lenwen's original question, Ley Lines should not affect the MDC of protection spells, just as they don't affect the damage of attack spells.

ZING! You were right about one thing techno: No need for debate!

[TechnoGothic]

Yepp no need for Debate. Because Rifts Ultimate Edition sucksass that why. Really why dont we all just burn it. The changes it made sucks to Everything. I'm Finding RUE less and less useful all the time.

My RIFTS MAINBOOK is much better to be Honest. The Mages dont suck in it. Its not all new and shinny of course. But it does not suck.

The ERRATA needs to Fixed back to RMB ways. Because without it Magic sucks period. Tolkeen would never had lasted a Day under RUE methods. But under RMB they would last much longer alot longer. RMB Magic on LeyLines and Nexus Points makes sense. It makes Magics something to FEAR going up against.

Hey guys look. By Magic Bolts go an extra 100ft or so. Same damage though. LAME.
Hey guys look. My Mystic Armor field can last Twice as long by barely protects me from one good blast still. LAME.

What was the point of RUE anyways ?? To make Rifts Suck ?? Seems so.

I'll stick with RMB thanks.

[Lenwen]

Range and duration are increased, but nothing else.

A Ley Line nexus,
Double Range, Duration, and Damage of spells, wards, and circles.

It then goes on to state even further ..

Each additional ley line beyond two adds another 10% to Range, Duration, and Damage of spells, circles and wards per additional ley line ..

So now we have even newer canon refrenced material which clearly shows that Range, Duration and Damage are all increased ..

So yet again .. i ask does "Armor" increase as well ?

[Lenwen]

What !!

No way !!

lmao ..

[runebeo]

Range and duration are increased, but nothing else.

A Ley Line nexus,
Double Range, Duration, and Damage of spells, wards, and circles.

It then goes on to state even further ..

Each additional ley line beyond two adds another 10% to Range, Duration, and Damage of spells, circles and wards per additional ley line ..

So now we have even newer canon refrenced material which clearly shows that Range, Duration and Damage are all increased ..

So yet again .. i ask does "Armor" increase as well ?

Its not a Rifts sourcebook, so it don't matter Palladium Fantasy is a different dimension with S.D.C. and since many Rifts fans only buy Rifts officially marked books theses rules are unknown to most. I'm not going to use theses alternative rules till its in a new edition of Rifts. Old Rifts magic system provided too much P.P.E. & power on ley lines and this seems better but still not official for Rifts. TechnoGothic is saying Tattoo Invulnerability is increased and if that true Monster Shaping Tattoo would get it too, thats 1200 M.D.C. for 200 P.P.E., you can't see why this is abuse to gain so many M.D.C. for such a low cost? Whats next Tattoo Monster get increased strength, attacks, M.D.C. and range to their special powers on ley lines? I know my GM would never allow any of this.

[Lenwen]

Its not a Rifts sourcebook, so it don't matter Palladium Fantasy is a different dimension

The vast majority of spells are found in both dimensions .. which support exactly the opposite of what you want people to believe..

The fact of the matter is that its a "Megaversal" system .. and as such 1 set of rules of magic .. for 1 setting does not change with the next setting or "Dimension" ..

If that were the case it would be stated some where in either dimensions "Core" book .. yet again .. Its not. Ergo it in fact supports that the Mysteries of Magic statement does in fact work for all magical aspects where there are ley lines and Nexus points .

Unless its stated otherwise .. or there are no ley lines and or Nexus points to begin with ..

Thats two things which completely support the fact that Yes .. Ley Lines and Nexus points do in fact increase magic as per description ..

[Steeler49er]

What are your thoughts conserning "Armor" spells when on or near a Ley Line / Nexus ?

Never NOT played it that way... I mean heck, it's kinda freakin logical ain't it?
Why the heck wouldn't it be. If the guy Doing the extra damage getsta do it, why the frack not the guy taking the damage. Matter of logic And balance.


Besides, this shouldn't ever even be in dispute. Ya gotta be pretty darn moronic to ALWAYS need PB to spell out EVERY LITTLE THING they ment with their fluff-text and rules. Can't anyone ever Logically extrapolate even the simple stuff nowa days?

[Steeler49er]

9 to 5 in favor of using Brains and common sence vs. the stupidity of the "Where, I didn't see it posted so it can't be true!" crowd...
Yeesh.

[runebeo]

Well first off Splicers is pretty much an anti-magic/anti-psionic dimension and Wormwood psionics is reduced by half. In some ways PB has a megaversal system but each game has different mechanics like the ones used in Robotech with different form of psionics and no magic that I've seen. You may have it set in your mind that Mysteries of Magic counts as official megaversal guide but to me it never will and I dare say 90% of the Rifts players who have never heard of that boring book wouldn't consider it an official book for Rifts. Put up a poll or write Kevin to put some official errata up, till then I think your about the only one using those rules for Rifts. You really should check out Splicers it such a great book and lots of insanely powerful stuff you would like.

[Balabanto]

Yepp no need for Debate. Because Rifts Ultimate Edition sucksass that why. Really why dont we all just burn it. The changes it made sucks to Everything. I'm Finding RUE less and less useful all the time.

My RIFTS MAINBOOK is much better to be Honest. The Mages dont suck in it. Its not all new and shinny of course. But it does not suck.

The ERRATA needs to Fixed back to RMB ways. Because without it Magic sucks period. Tolkeen would never had lasted a Day under RUE methods. But under RMB they would last much longer alot longer. RMB Magic on LeyLines and Nexus Points makes sense. It makes Magics something to FEAR going up against.

Hey guys look. By Magic Bolts go an extra 100ft or so. Same damage though. LAME.
Hey guys look. My Mystic Armor field can last Twice as long by barely protects me from one good blast still. LAME.

What was the point of RUE anyways ?? To make Rifts Suck ?? Seems so.

I'll stick with RMB thanks.

That's funny, I find that mages are actually more effective under RUE rules than they are under RMB rules. Being able to pop off Armor Bizarre in a single action forces everyone who attacks the mage to make horror factor tests once a round. Once you have that up, you get two actions to cast a 6th through 10th level spell. This is usually more than sufficient to totally hose most people and/or groups of people.

Their range still stinks, but the reason that bothers me is that in a game where combat is designed to work like cinematic Shaw Brothers and Wuxia films, you have to be a ninja to succeed. Otherwise, you are heard and a-sploded by missile fire.

[Lenwen]

Well first off Splicers is pretty much an anti-magic/anti-psionic dimension and Wormwood psionics is reduced by half.

I've already stated ..

Unless its stated otherwise

For different settings .. Such as Splicers or Wormwood ..

If you have not noticed tho runebeo the rules to which you are refurring to are no where to be scene in either Rifts nor in Palladium's Fantasy are not those presented in either Splicers nor Wormwood ..

I feel that you have no leg to stand on trying to use rules from any setting .. to try to place over the "no rules" of Palladium Fantasy to Rifts ..

As I've stated .. unless otherwise stated .. the Lack of rules in one setting are not made up by rules specified for certain other settings ..

[runebeo]

Yepp no need for Debate. Because Rifts Ultimate Edition sucksass that why. Really why dont we all just burn it. The changes it made sucks to Everything. I'm Finding RUE less and less useful all the time.

My RIFTS MAINBOOK is much better to be Honest. The Mages dont suck in it. Its not all new and shinny of course. But it does not suck.

The ERRATA needs to Fixed back to RMB ways. Because without it Magic sucks period. Tolkeen would never had lasted a Day under RUE methods. But under RMB they would last much longer alot longer. RMB Magic on LeyLines and Nexus Points makes sense. It makes Magics something to FEAR going up against.

Hey guys look. By Magic Bolts go an extra 100ft or so. Same damage though. LAME.
Hey guys look. My Mystic Armor field can last Twice as long by barely protects me from one good blast still. LAME.

What was the point of RUE anyways ?? To make Rifts Suck ?? Seems so.

I'll stick with RMB thanks.

So you liked a very outdated book with no supernatural or robotic strength chart, dragons that dealt only 2D6 M.D., incredibly slow magic casting system, 2 less attacks per round, no defined rules for dodging energy weapons, juicers & crazies without auto-dodge. Just because the Rue nerfed the ley lines which honestly never really come up because most GM like to stay away from them since their usually a hassle to deal with them. Rue is not perfect yet but it added so many new abilities to revised classes, a way better selections of spells & psionics.

I will say that first edition of RUE is full of some missing & hidden information and could use some resorting to make things easier to find. I for one wish the two extra attacks per round never came about as it can sometime turn combat into a complicate mess when people miss an action or get stealing extra attacks, less was way easier to keep track of for sure. With ley lines it become an even bigger mess adding their bonuses, adjusting P.P.E. pools and extra range, then the GM has to watch for cheaters who rolling extra dice, going out of order, not taking damage or even keeping track of their E-clips blasts, body armor, P.P.E. or I.S.P. pools.

[Steeler49er]

Well first off Splicers is pretty much an anti-magic/anti-psionic dimension and Wormwood psionics is reduced by half. In some ways PB has a megaversal system but each game has different mechanics like the ones used in Robotech with different form of psionics and no magic that I've seen.

Actually YES rune, Robotech Did In fact have Magic in it! They're called the Mystic Perytons, a race of magical mutants. FURTHER more, the psionics in the game work the same for Rifts as they do for Robotech, where you got that notion I can only guess.

As to Wormwood, the Only psi-sensitive powers work at reduced power, and the ONLY reason fer That is because Wormwood is a living planet and psychic end up Sencing IT before they can sence anything else (it's called Psychic interferance, and it happens All the time on Rifts earth as well). More over, Rifts Earth and Wormwood Are directly connected via World Gate. All the rules arevthe same...
Very bad examples you have used so far!

But let us move onto Splicers (a personal favorite of yours Im sure).
Both Magic And Psionics work on the Splicers world. Why thembeing Hampered would Ever give you the notion that this would make it a completely differant game is, well, not logical one bit.

So what if the world of Splicers suffers from depressions in the magical feilds, the supernatural in All forms could go there per the rules in Splicers, but just like anyother low magic environment, they perfer worlds of higher quality. They'd simply rather go elsewhere. The Dimensional rules are differant, NOT the GAME SYSTEM rules. Its One Megaverse.
And as to what differances there are, AGAIN so what? Depressions in the magical fields on Rifts earth happen All the time, where magic fails, gets Stronger, or outright warps...

Its called a LEY LINE STORM... look it up!


All of your arguements are, upto this point, baseless and (by your Own admission of guilt) based Totally off of your personal feeling/issues/Dislikes with magic, And or your innabilty to think logically about the issue. You seem to feel that Kevin S and PB should spell out Every single deta in Every, single, peice of fluff text and rule made... Or else it Aint true to you.
Thats called "Baby Sitting the Dumb Child" and is way past stupid to do.
FURTHER MORE, regarding RUE and the original RMB, RUE is messed tripe!

A). The Two Attacks rule is NOT NEW, its been around for a very very long time. It wasnt mentioned prior in most PB books cuz it was Accidentally left out (Kevins words, not mine) but I have Always used them ever since i read that this was the rule in Earlier PB books...
I DIDNT NEED A RULES REPRINT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT I ALREADY KNEW!!!
You apparently though Did.

B). The All of the rules regarding ANY RPG played are Seldom found in a Main book... Not Marvel, Not White Wolf, Not to darn many do that. And Since PB put the Laser dodge rules in their second Rifts book (which is Part of the Original RMB rule system, it works more than well enough).
C). Same as above for the SNPS chart which came out shortly after the RMB in the First Rifts Conversion Book (a FAR FAR BETTER Conversion book than those two new pss poor rewrites). Thus it is part of the Original RMB rules system.

D). As to your juicer auto dodge, I had thunk that already mentioned in the first Original RMB. If i was wrong, big flippin deal, so what. Who cares if juicers got an auto dodge or not? Them getting one in the Shiny New RUE is No game breaker or game selling point!

E). And as to magic getting pumped up to insane levels of quik as S**t casting times, that Alone should tell one All you need to Know about how BROKEN the Shiny New RUE truly is.

In closing Rune, use logic and Not personal likes/dislikes regarding magic when figuring out whether or Not Armor spells get The Pathetic x2 boost in power fro
lines.
And further, you sure are wrong allot.

[Steeler49er]

And by the way, its now 10 to 3 in Our favor.

[Mack]

Range and duration are increased, but nothing else.

A Ley Line nexus,
Double Range, Duration, and Damage of spells, wards, and circles.

It then goes on to state even further ..

Each additional ley line beyond two adds another 10% to Range, Duration, and Damage of spells, circles and wards per additional ley line ..

So now we have even newer canon refrenced material which clearly shows that Range, Duration and Damage are all increased ..

So yet again .. i ask does "Armor" increase as well ?

MoM is not a Rifts sourcebook. It has no more applicability than Dead Reign.

The PB system is not actually universal. If it were, we wouldn't need conversions (and entire conversion books).

[Balabanto]

Mack, I hate to gainsay you, but Mysteries of Magic has conversion rules for Rifts in it as far as the spells are concerned, so yes, they are available and you can use them.

[runebeo]

Well first off Splicers is pretty much an anti-magic/anti-psionic dimension and Wormwood psionics is reduced by half. In some ways PB has a megaversal system but each game has different mechanics like the ones used in Robotech with different form of psionics and no magic that I've seen.

Actually YES rune, Robotech Did In fact have Magic in it! They're called the Mystic Perytons, a race of magical mutants. FURTHER more, the psionics in the game work the same for Rifts as they do for Robotech, where you got that notion I can only guess.

As to Wormwood, the Only psi-sensitive powers work at reduced power, and the ONLY reason fer That is because Wormwood is a living planet and psychic end up Sencing IT before they can sence anything else (it's called Psychic interferance, and it happens All the time on Rifts earth as well). More over, Rifts Earth and Wormwood Are directly connected via World Gate. All the rules arevthe same...
Very bad examples you have used so far!

But let us move onto Splicers (a personal favorite of yours Im sure).
Both Magic And Psionics work on the Splicers world. Why thembeing Hampered would Ever give you the notion that this would make it a completely differant game is, well, not logical one bit.

So what if the world of Splicers suffers from depressions in the magical feilds, the supernatural in All forms could go there per the rules in Splicers, but just like anyother low magic environment, they perfer worlds of higher quality. They'd simply rather go elsewhere. The Dimensional rules are differant, NOT the GAME SYSTEM rules. Its One Megaverse.
And as to what differances there are, AGAIN so what? Depressions in the magical fields on Rifts earth happen All the time, where magic fails, gets Stronger, or outright warps...

Its called a LEY LINE STORM... look it up!


All of your arguements are, upto this point, baseless and (by your Own admission of guilt) based Totally off of your personal feeling/issues/Dislikes with magic, And or your innabilty to think logically about the issue. You seem to feel that Kevin S and PB should spell out Every single deta in Every, single, peice of fluff text and rule made... Or else it Aint true to you.
Thats called "Baby Sitting the Dumb Child" and is way past stupid to do.
FURTHER MORE, regarding RUE and the original RMB, RUE is messed tripe!

A). The Two Attacks rule is NOT NEW, its been around for a very very long time. It wasnt mentioned prior in most PB books cuz it was Accidentally left out (Kevins words, not mine) but I have Always used them ever since i read that this was the rule in Earlier PB books...
I DIDNT NEED A RULES REPRINT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT I ALREADY KNEW!!!
You apparently though Did.

B). The All of the rules regarding ANY RPG played are Seldom found in a Main book... Not Marvel, Not White Wolf, Not to darn many do that. And Since PB put the Laser dodge rules in their second Rifts book (which is Part of the Original RMB rule system, it works more than well enough).
C). Same as above for the SNPS chart which came out shortly after the RMB in the First Rifts Conversion Book (a FAR FAR BETTER Conversion book than those two new pss poor rewrites). Thus it is part of the Original RMB rules system.

D). As to your juicer auto dodge, I had thunk that already mentioned in the first Original RMB. If i was wrong, big flippin deal, so what. Who cares if juicers got an auto dodge or not? Them getting one in the Shiny New RUE is No game breaker or game selling point!

E). And as to magic getting pumped up to insane levels of quik as S**t casting times, that Alone should tell one All you need to Know about how BROKEN the Shiny New RUE truly is.

In closing Rune, use logic and Not personal likes/dislikes regarding magic when figuring out whether or Not Armor spells get The Pathetic x2 boost in power fro
lines.
And further, you sure are wrong allot.

First off don't talk down to me cause you disagree I'm never rude or put down anyone ideas, I told my opinion as I find it complicates the game and I've never read anything about extra armor boost, if it was that way I would enjoy playing that way. I love the magic system and I have no disdain for it. You say I'm wrong allot your disagreeing about a clearly changed rules about ley lines. I maybe wrong about Robotech as I don't own all the books but theres still no reason to be so rude.

[Lenwen]

Mack, I hate to gainsay you, but Mysteries of Magic has conversion rules for Rifts in it as far as the spells are concerned, so yes, they are available and you can use them.

Well said Balabanto.

Considering Mack you also said this is not a "true" megaversal system, I beleive that would be a 1/2 truth ..

Yes there are certain settings where they are as cut off as it gets (Nightbane) from the rest of the megaverse, yet there are other settings where they are so similiar to each other in every way (Rifts earth/Palladium) minus the lvl of tech.. where as they might as well be interchangeable ..

Ley Line's and Nexus's exsist in Palladium Fantasy, Rifts Earth, Phase world (wormwood does in fact not have ley lines persay but they exsist in some form none the less )this I know with out a doubt ..

Mack you claim the Ley Lines act differently in 1 of those settings as opposed to the other 2 settings ..

But going threw all the books .. I've yet to find 1 sentance which would support the idea that Ley Lines / Nexus's work differently from setting to setting .. matter of fact its quite the opposite ..

Everything I've read only further's my understanding that they work exactly the same .. in every setting they appear in .. Even Wormwood, which they are not lines as you an I know them, but rather underground the great living planet.

[Mack]

Mack, I hate to gainsay you, but Mysteries of Magic has conversion rules for Rifts in it as far as the spells are concerned, so yes, they are available and you can use them.

Exactly. It requires conversion to Rifts, which is a different setting with different rules.

[Lenwen]

Mack, I hate to gainsay you, but Mysteries of Magic has conversion rules for Rifts in it as far as the spells are concerned, so yes, they are available and you can use them.

Exactly. It requires conversion to Rifts, which is a different setting with different rules.

Spells yes ..

Ley Line effects upon magic .. no ..

Your giving partial answers ..

[Lenwen]

It's just an interesting topic worthy of discussion.

Exactly ..

[Mack]

Considering the catalog calls it Mysteries of Magic™ Book One: The Heart of Magic™ – for the Palladium Fantasy RPG®, and the description says it must be "adapted" to Rifts, I have to disagree.

Sorry, but MoM does not trump RUE. If anyone doesn't like it, that's cool. We all all free to adjust things as we see fit.

[TechnoGothic]

There's a wonderful thing called a "House Rule" that solves this entire argument. Quite remarkable really.

Indeed it's what we've done. We actually believed this whole time it affected all aspects of magic due to evidence I already provided. However we could never find anything more concrete so we've allowed it damage and protection boosts.

Lastly some of you guys need to calm down. Being right or wrong about an ambiguity won't gain you an extra level, ribbon, or Brownie point. It's just an interesting topic worthy of discussion.

Or What I said from RIFTS Main Book (RMB).

Spoiler:

RIFTS Main Book

Ley Lines and Magic
Ley lines have the following effects on men of magic.
Close proximity to a ley line. Being near a ley line, within two miles (3.2 km), increases the range and duration of spells by 50%.
Being at/on a ley line or one mile from a nexus point doubles the range, duration, and damage of magic spells. The mage can also draw an additional 10 P.P.E. per level of experience (second level mystic 20 points, third level mystic 30 P.P.E., etc.) every 12 hours. Plus his own P.P.E. recovers at the increased rate of 10 P.P.E. per half-hour, without meditation!
Being at a ley line nexus point or within 200 feet (61 m) of a nexus point triples the range, duration, and damage of magic incantations. The mage also enjoys a bonus of + 2 to save vs magic and horror factor. His personal spell strength is also increased by + 1. The mage can draw an additional 30 P.P.E. per level of experience every 6 hours. Plus his own P.P.E. recovers at the incredible rate of 20 points per half-hour!!

This is Still OFFICAL Rifts to me (Until a New Book says to Ignore All My older books).
Being Near a Ley Line only increases Range & Duraration by 50%
Being On a LeyLine or Near a Nexus Doubles increases Everything by x2.
Being on a Nexus increases everything by x3.

RUE is just full of Typos and omissions of rules to be taken a book that over-rules Everything printed before.
I have Always used the 2 Actions for Being Alive rules. Add HtH extra Attacks. So the RUE of doing the math for us was not needed or wanted. I know many groups who do not use the 2 attacks for being alive however. Thats there right. None of them own RUE because of that change to the rules.
I still use the older rules for Magic casting. While the new rules for quick casting was ok for True mages, I do not use it for RCC abilities like Dragons. They still only can cast 2 spells in a round.

I'm not going to Ignore my Older books just because something new came out. Something full of holes, Typos, omissions, or just right out wrong about what has be used in the Past in their books. Only thing I use RUE for is the new Dragons. They did not replace my old dragons at all, just new ones that players can pick from. HtH Dragon i use too.

[Lenwen]

Considering the catalog calls it Mysteries of Magic™ Book One: The Heart of Magic™ – for the Palladium Fantasy RPG®, and the description says it must be "adapted" to Rifts, I have to disagree.

Sorry, but MoM does not trump RUE. If anyone doesn't like it, that's cool. We all all free to adjust things as we see fit.

Actually mack .. it does in fact not say that on the book ..

Palladium Books Presents:
Mysteries of Magic
Book one: The heart of magic.

No where in the title does it say "For the Palladium Fantasy RPG" ..

[Lenwen]

You are speaking from a standpoint that you can pick and choose what rules from what books you wish to make your argument.

Actually I am debating that the Ley Lines andNexus points effect magic exactly the same way in multiple dimensions .. (settings) for the Palladium "Megaverse"

And I've yet to see 1 single refrenced canon quote from any book .. to say they do not .. yet there have been multiple quotes showing they do in fact have the same effect on magic in Palladium's Fantasy world .. as they do in Rifts Earth world ..

The people who have said no they do not .. have yet to confirm thier "opinions" with a direct quote .. one way or the other .. outside of their opinions ..

Since this is about the Rifts setting, quite frankly, PFRPG is pretty blatantly off-topic.

Facts are facts .. there have been canon evidence quotes from various people to support the fact that Ley Lines do in fact react to magic exactly the same in all of Palladium's settings .. Fantasy to Space opra to Rifts earth ..

If you want to disagree with that .. all you have to do to show us why .. is provide a canon sourced refrence which says the Ley Lines do not do what they do in Palladium's Fantasy world as opposed to how Ley Lines work in Rifts Earth ..

[Grinning Demon]

Considering the catalog calls it Mysteries of Magic™ Book One: The Heart of Magic™ – for the Palladium Fantasy RPG®, and the description says it must be "adapted" to Rifts, I have to disagree.

Sorry, but MoM does not trump RUE. If anyone doesn't like it, that's cool. We all all free to adjust things as we see fit.

Actually mack .. it does in fact not say that on the book ..

Palladium Books Presents:
Mysteries of Magic
Book one: The heart of magic.

No where in the title does it say "For the Palladium Fantasy RPG" ..

I'll have to agree with Mack on this one Lenwen, go to this link http://www.palladiumbooks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc and look at the first book on there. It specifically says "for the Palladium Fantasy RPG." MoM would NOT trump RUE. That being said you can house rule anything you want, why argue about it all day online?

[Hystrix]

You are speaking from a standpoint that you can pick and choose what rules from what books you wish to make your argument.

Actually I am debating that the Ley Lines andNexus points effect magic exactly the same way in multiple dimensions .. (settings) for the Palladium "Megaverse"

And I've yet to see 1 single refrenced canon quote from any book .. to say they do not .. yet there have been multiple quotes showing they do in fact have the same effect on magic in Palladium's Fantasy world .. as they do in Rifts Earth world ..

The people who have said no they do not .. have yet to confirm thier "opinions" with a direct quote .. one way or the other .. outside of their opinions ..

Since this is about the Rifts setting, quite frankly, PFRPG is pretty blatantly off-topic.

Facts are facts .. there have been canon evidence quotes from various people to support the fact that Ley Lines do in fact react to magic exactly the same in all of Palladium's settings .. Fantasy to Space opra to Rifts earth ..

If you want to disagree with that .. all you have to do to show us why .. is provide a canon sourced refrence which says the Ley Lines do not do what they do in Palladium's Fantasy world as opposed to how Ley Lines work in Rifts Earth ..

Mack quoted directly from a Rifts book. You quoted from a Palladium Fantasy book. Mack used a dired quote.

[Lenwen]

Considering the catalog calls it Mysteries of Magic™ Book One: The Heart of Magic™ – for the Palladium Fantasy RPG®, and the description says it must be "adapted" to Rifts, I have to disagree.

Sorry, but MoM does not trump RUE. If anyone doesn't like it, that's cool. We all all free to adjust things as we see fit.

Actually mack .. it does in fact not say that on the book ..

Palladium Books Presents:
Mysteries of Magic
Book one: The heart of magic.

No where in the title does it say "For the Palladium Fantasy RPG" ..

I'll have to agree with Mack on this one Lenwen, go to this link http://www.palladiumbooks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc and look at the first book on there. It specifically says "for the Palladium Fantasy RPG." MoM would NOT trump RUE. That being said you can house rule anything you want, why argue about it all day online?

No need for a link .. I am reading the cover of my copy of Mysteries of Magic .. and no where on the cover of the book does it say .. "For Palladium Fantasy RPG" ..

Buy the book .. read the cover .. you will see that I am 100% write on this ..

[Steeler49er]

First off don't talk down to me cause you disagree I'm never rude or put down anyone ideas, I told my opinion as I find it complicates the game and I've never read anything about extra armor boost, if it was that way I would enjoy playing that way. I love the magic system and I have no disdain for it. You say I'm wrong allot your disagreeing about a clearly changed rules about ley lines. I maybe wrong about Robotech as I don't own all the books but theres still no reason to be so rude.

I owe you a Big appology Rune. I don't know what came over me...
Well actually, I do. I've been trying to be friendly with someone and she'd Just wroten a racist hate memo to me back after a heated discussion rgarding the new Avatar TLAB movie that is coming out (She got heated and I didn't)... She twisted everything I'd ever said to her into making me out to be a nazi white boy (and considering They useta beat the cr@ap outta me in school) that hurt and i took it out on you with out realizing at the time (I THOUGHT I had my emotions in check but, after reading what i said to you, that wasn't Remotely the case).

I am Very sorry in how I went about saying what I said. I stand by the facts of the 'Opinion' I gave and Not the emotion which was wrong. You're a great guy and I Can't believe I let go of my emotions.
Sorry again
Rick Steeler

[grandmaster z0b]

No need for a link .. I am reading the cover of my copy of Mysteries of Magic .. and no where on the cover of the book does it say .. "For Palladium Fantasy RPG" ..

Buy the book .. read the cover .. you will see that I am 100% write on this ..

But you're 100% wrong about ley lines and nexus points. You can't point to the MoM because it isn't a Rifts book. That's so clear and obvious that I'm not going to debate it. RUE is the most recent pertinent Rifts publication so any rules contained within, including the errata are canon.

I don't like the rule personally and house rule ley lines to have an effect on damage in my game, but it is clearly a house rule.

You also can't argue against the publisher. Palladium books themselves have stated that this is for "– for the Palladium Fantasy RPG®" and "...the Palladium Fantasy setting" NOT Rifts.

[Steeler49er]

No need for a link .. I am reading the cover of my copy of Mysteries of Magic .. and no where on the cover of the book does it say .. "For Palladium Fantasy RPG" ..

Buy the book .. read the cover .. you will see that I am 100% write on this ..

But you're 100% wrong about ley lines and nexus points. You can't point to the MoM because it isn't a Rifts book. That's so clear and obvious that I'm not going to debate it. RUE is the most recent pertinent Rifts publication so any rules contained within, including the errata are canon.

I don't like the rule personally and house rule ley lines to have an effect on damage in my game, but it is clearly a house rule.

You also can't argue against the publisher. Palladium books themselves have stated that this is for "– for the Palladium Fantasy RPG®" and "...the Palladium Fantasy setting" NOT Rifts.

Incorrect grandmaster. PB said that They (Rifts and Palladium Fantasy) are not the same World!!! They did Not say at any point that they are differantly ruled game systems.
Magical spells and rules about magic that are valid in one book are valid in the other, and visa versa. It's always been that way, and untill things change, it will remain that way. And Kevin has Also said That much... Time and time and time and time again.
If what you were saying was true, the two games could Not have directly linking portals to each other and, just like Phaseworld and Wormwood, they do.

You guys seem to think that PB is run like White Wolf in that the games use the same Mechanics for certain thing most of the time, and something LIKE cross overs between, say Vamp the Masqu and Werewolf for instance, may take place but they are still not Truly the same worlds.
This is Palladium, not some Other game company. That is how Others do business, Not PB. If all games were run that way it would suck as you could Never do something new and cool like Truly travel between other "in company" games. This IS why people choose to play PB games, just for that fun flexiblilty and well documented and defined rule system that you CAN NOT GET from other game companies like WW who seldom give you strait answeres.

The PFRPG, Rifts, Phaseworld, Splicers, Skraypers, Mystic China, Dead Reign, Heroes Unlimited, Ninjas & Super Spies, Advanced Recon, Mechanoids, SystemShock, Beyond the Supernatural, and Nightspawn (Yeah I said Spawn! Suck it Todd M!) are ALL defined as Existing in the SAME MEGAVERSE.
Only MacrossII, TMNT, Robotech Sentinals, and Robotech The Shadow C. are Truely exempt from those rules.

The new RUE has done absolutely NOTHING to counter this simple fact.
You have missunderstood what PB said. I have not because I have been here since forever and frankly I have heard Kevin explain this to players Time and time again. He no longer does this anymore.
He has ALSO said that you "Do not need to play it that way. It is Your game system and you can play it however you like. If you Do Not wish to have the game worlds existing with in the same game system, Or if you do Not like my Palladium game mechanics, or rather you like someone elses, feel free to use theirs instead. But this IS how I intened my system to be run, so that all the game books can be used together!".

Ley lines do NOT always work the same way between worlds, but this is not to do with the game systems being differant, or that the game worlds are Not rules wise game compatable, but rather that ANYWHERE you go (Even on Rifts Earth) ley Lines and magical/supernatural energies fluctuate from location to location, world to world. Just like a given Climate or temprature on Earth changes based on the location of where you are on Earth!
But it is Still the same earth you are on, just like Rifts and PFRPG are in the Same megaverse.

[Steeler49er]

Considering the catalog calls it Mysteries of Magic™ Book One: The Heart of Magic™ – for the Palladium Fantasy RPG®, and the description says it must be "adapted" to Rifts, I have to disagree.

Sorry, but MoM does not trump RUE. If anyone doesn't like it, that's cool. We all all free to adjust things as we see fit.

This man is almost always right from what I've seen. I've never played with armor increased, while it would come in handy for armor spells things like magic items and tattoo magic would become grossly abusive.

And again, that is Personal Preferance, not the intended rules.
Way back when, Before more powerful magical Armor spells existed, and the ease in casting them Faster came about due to Munchkins Demanding that the Weak magical classes get a buff, Magical Armor was limited to Just simple spells like 'Armor of Ithians'.

That spell took One half of a melee to cast, ate up your Limited PPE, and ONLY offered you a small amount of MDC (Less than the lightest armor in the books) and Only lasted a short time. Where as Tech & Psychic classes could either Wear their armor all day or Instantly summon it up... AND it was Much more powerful.
TK Sheild was Not magical but could be boosted on a ley line??? What now.

The game was GROSSILY imbalanced, and Magic (that was Supposed to be some Ubber powerful thing) was seen as ultra very weak. Plus, with the Coming of the SoT, you could NO LONGER WEAR ARMOR!!! Despite you having always done so to protect yourself.
BUT with RUE, the game has been turned around 180°!!! Now Magic is WAY WAY WAY past overpowered and has made Tech and Psi-obsolete!!!

RUE is a Mess. But Magic Armor was Never so powerful that it couldn't stand a little 50% to x2 temp buff from a Ley line or nexus. So heck yeah, the Armor spells got/get buffed on Lines and on Nexi...
Remember, that is why the CS never takes on mages when they're on or near one if they have a choice... It's Not so much because mages do more damage, it is case they can Take more damage!!!
A Mage is Kinda not as much of a Threat when they can be killed in two or three hits (usually one). And since magic users can No longer use body armor (without Massive problems), a simple doubling up when ONLY ON LINE AND NEXUS seems a Small issue.

Frankly, if you don't Like these rules than, FIX it back so that Magic isn't so flipping easy to cast! Then things are closer to being Balanced again.
Except mages are a bit lame again... but that is what the NEW more powerful/costly Magic Armor spells were intended to fix.

[grandmaster z0b]

No need for a link .. I am reading the cover of my copy of Mysteries of Magic .. and no where on the cover of the book does it say .. "For Palladium Fantasy RPG" ..

Buy the book .. read the cover .. you will see that I am 100% write on this ..

But you're 100% wrong about ley lines and nexus points. You can't point to the MoM because it isn't a Rifts book. That's so clear and obvious that I'm not going to debate it. RUE is the most recent pertinent Rifts publication so any rules contained within, including the errata are canon.

I don't like the rule personally and house rule ley lines to have an effect on damage in my game, but it is clearly a house rule.

You also can't argue against the publisher. Palladium books themselves have stated that this is for "– for the Palladium Fantasy RPG®" and "...the Palladium Fantasy setting" NOT Rifts.

Incorrect grandmaster. PB said that They (Rifts and Palladium Fantasy) are not the same World!!! They did Not say at any point that they are differantly ruled game systems.
Magical spells and rules about magic that are valid in one book are valid in the other, and visa versa. It's always been that way, and untill things change, it will remain that way. And Kevin has Also said That much... Time and time and time and time again.
If what you were saying was true, the two games could Not have directly linking portals to each other and, just like Phaseworld and Wormwood, they do.

You guys seem to think that PB is run like White Wolf in that the games use the same Mechanics for certain thing most of the time, and something LIKE cross overs between, say Vamp the Masqu and Werewolf for instance, may take place but they are still not Truly the same worlds.
This is Palladium, not some Other game company. That is how Others do business, Not PB. If all games were run that way it would suck as you could Never do something new and cool like Truly travel between other "in company" games. This IS why people choose to play PB games, just for that fun flexiblilty and well documented and defined rule system that you CAN NOT GET from other game companies like WW who seldom give you strait answeres.

The PFRPG, Rifts, Phaseworld, Splicers, Skraypers, Mystic China, Dead Reign, Heroes Unlimited, Ninjas & Super Spies, Advanced Recon, Mechanoids, SystemShock, Beyond the Supernatural, and Nightspawn (Yeah I said Spawn! Suck it Todd M!) are ALL defined as Existing in the SAME MEGAVERSE.
Only MacrossII, TMNT, Robotech Sentinals, and Robotech The Shadow C. are Truely exempt from those rules.

The new RUE has done absolutely NOTHING to counter this simple fact.
You have missunderstood what PB said. I have not because I have been here since forever and frankly I have heard Kevin explain this to players Time and time again. He no longer does this anymore.
He has ALSO said that you "Do not need to play it that way. It is Your game system and you can play it however you like. If you Do Not wish to have the game worlds existing with in the same game system, Or if you do Not like my Palladium game mechanics, or rather you like someone elses, feel free to use theirs instead. But this IS how I intened my system to be run, so that all the game books can be used together!".

Ley lines do NOT always work the same way between worlds, but this is not to do with the game systems being differant, or that the game worlds are Not rules wise game compatable, but rather that ANYWHERE you go (Even on Rifts Earth) ley Lines and magical/supernatural energies fluctuate from location to location, world to world. Just like a given Climate or temprature on Earth changes based on the location of where you are on Earth!
But it is Still the same earth you are on, just like Rifts and PFRPG are in the Same megaverse.

Okay firstly if that were true why are some rules different between different game systems? Why would you need conversion books? They all have a very similar system but there are differences. They release books for different game lines exactly for this reason.

Secondly I have changed the rules to suit myself in my games, I said that in my post so that's a moot point.

Thirdly, trying to win an argument by saying "You have missunderstood what PB said. I have not because I have been here since forever..." is ridiculous. What do you even mean by "...I have been here since forever..."? On the forums? Apart from the fact that that is a lame argument with no merit, it looks to me like I've been here longer.

It may well be that PB didn't mean to leave damage out when they produced the RUE errata and that we will see a 3rd or 4th printing errata that amends it. However until Rifts rule book details these rules differently, that's the rule.

[killhound]

it doesn't mater what anyone else says yes or no the rules state clearly what happens to magic during the time of power deal with it

[Lenwen]

I like how people are creating new accounts .. to vote "No" ..

LMAO !!

[Grinning Demon]

No need for a link .. I am reading the cover of my copy of Mysteries of Magic .. and no where on the cover of the book does it say .. "For Palladium Fantasy RPG" ..

Buy the book .. read the cover .. you will see that I am 100% write on this ..

You mean 100% right? I would try to use correct syntax and grammar when trying to mindlessly argue on the internet, otherwise it really doesn't help the know-it-all card you're trying to play. I'm reading my Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 book and since nowhere in the book does it say "cannot be used with Rifts" that I'm going to incorporate some nonsensical rules into Rifts! Lenwen you're trying to prove something that no one even cares about. Say 90% of the people voted "no," would you then play in accordance to what people on a message board say? If you were even a semi-competent GM you would just house rule it as many others have suggested, instead of just glossing over the simple reality of the situation and continuing to troll/stir the pot.

[grandmaster z0b]

I like how people are creating new accounts .. to vote "No" ..

LMAO !!

Seriously dude, I very much doubt anyone is doing that.

[Hystrix]

I like how people are creating new accounts .. to vote "No" ..

LMAO !!

you're one to talk...

[Steeler49er]

Okay firstly if that were true why are some rules different between different game systems?
►What rules I ask? I hear this all the bloody time. Outside of the Old original System (For ALL PB games) getting a revision back 20 years ago, some of the ONLY things that I've noticed that are differant would be that "For Some Unknown reason" Heroes unlimited decided to increase the defined Lift and Carry weight of SNPS! And that was likely due to the writter(s) at the time not being to very thoughtful when they first wrote it in Skraypers that way, and peeps Failed to catch on to the mistake!
That mistake came from the Advanet of a Major superpower calledl 'Supernatural PS' that fit the Same name sake as the SNPS we all know. Again, these things are due to wrters glitches that have often Never got noticed, and are not of issue in the Broad scheme of the megaverse◄

Why would you need conversion books? They all have a very similar system but there are differences. They release books for different game lines exactly for this reason.
►The Need for the Conversion books has been, and Is explained well enough (several times I may add) in the Conversion Book I itself. SIMPLY put, Rifts Earth is Flooded with Magical Extra-Dimensional Eneries And that "Temporarily" increases many beings SDC/HP to MDC levels while there. What's hard to get about that? the Conversion Book(s) simply tell you Rifts related relevant info about creatures from other books like; Where they can be found regionally in Rifts earth, and how many there are, or what Effects they may gain from being in a High magic zone.
The DIFFERANCES are due to minor misunderstandings between New writes and the Core system (in which they are often Corrected).◄
Secondly I have changed the rules to suit myself in my games, I said that in my post so that's a moot point.
►And?

Thirdly, trying to win an argument by saying "You have missunderstood what PB said. I have not because I have been here since forever..." is ridiculous. What do you even mean by "...I have been here since forever..."? On the forums? Apart from the fact that that is a lame argument with no merit, it looks to me like I've been here longer.
►Yah Think so?
Is that cuz you're perhaps looking at my "JOINED DATE"...
Bad call!
See I had to Restart my account in 2001, and Again in 2006... But I've been here (on the Boards) since the 1990's!
As to it being a "lame argument with no merit", that's just a Dismissive comment. My senority on the boards and in playing the game DOES mean something Important! It Means that I have had 15+Years of conversations with the actual writers here, and have asked 100's of questions of them. It ALSO means that Aside from That fact, I Have indeed seen/read old post by them in which they stated their frame of mind regarding the Hows and Whys of the game and it's mechanics.
SOME writers do Indeed feel as you do, but KevinS. is the one who made the rules so as to cut down on confusion and, i have seen many a time where writers deside that "I don't like that rule so, i'm gonna change it w/o true approval", and Tkae it upon themselve to do Just that. Latter on (sometimes) KS or someone else cathes on changes it back. But KS's Standing rules were never altered.◄

It may well be that PB didn't mean to leave damage out when they produced the RUE errata and that we will see a 3rd or 4th printing errata that amends it. However until Rifts rule book details these rules differently, that's the rule.
►What's the rule???
That they possibly felt it Obvious that if "Magic Spells Get boosted", one would be inclined to assume that since SDC spells, effect, etc... become MDC in the environment JUST like their Mega-Damaging counter parts do, then it would make sence that a Ley Line/Nexus would As well boost the MDC of an armor spell!!! You mean THAT RULE?

You guys Keep saying it is "A rule, and unitll otherwise told, that rule Stands", Problem is... No such rule exists saying You are right! There Is NO RULE saying "Except Magical Armor".
# So you Actually never had a rule...
#None of you did...
#You're just making it up that is a rule when IN FACT, NOTHING is written at all about it, save for the sheer common sence of the matter and MAYBE (If you were Really inclined to look through all of the books like you Actually did care to find the truth), you may have actually found some instances of Armor spells getting Affected by Lines and Nexi.
But you haven't as that would be REALLY inconveniant to you.
See, I'm pretty sure I have seen the instance of Magic armor spell buffed by lines in the books before so, it's of Little concern to me personally.
And I'm NOT ACTUALLY SAYING THAT YOU ARE WRONG.
You May be right about it all. BUT your unwillingless to believe that shows me that the Only Real proof you'd ever care about is the one in your favor...
And THAT is why I'm posting.◄